Tips for setup with front+rear knuckles.

[KAs14slider]

Hi guys, I was thinking of posting this question in the roll center/suspension/knuckle thread but I just made this thread instead.

I just installed front and back knuckles on my s14. I went out out today and had a real hard time drifting at any bigger angle than I used to have with stock knuckles. Any time I would try to throw it in hard and get decent angle it would just spin. And it was hard to transition, it would now get a lot of grip on transitions. Before I get flamed, no I am not some noob that went straight to knuckles. I have been drifting my s14 since 2002. And here is info on my setup:

Front: PBM forged knuckles. PBM inner tie rods with moog outers. Abercrombie extended flca's and modified x-member.

Rear: PBM knuckles.

Coilovers are fortune auto 500s 8k 6k rates. I don't run any front or rear sway bars.

We gave it a basic alignment, nothing too crazy just to have a good starting point.
Front camber is at -4.5 Front toe 1.7mm Front caster is 6.5
Rear camber is -1, rear toe 1.2mm

The car just felt much worse overall than before the knuckles. I swear in some cases I was able to hold more angle before with stock knuckles.
I know that I can't expect to just throw on knuckles and go out and have the car be awesome. It will take some tweaking. Am I not running enough camber/caster in the front to have a good contact patch at full lock? Or is my rear just not grippy enough? Today I was running Federal 215/40 18's in the front and 225/40 Kenda kaisers in the back. Wheels are 18x9.5 battles. I am running no spacer in the front and my bumpstops are adjusted to right before my wheels hit my tension rods. I need sapcers/overs for more angle but I don't want to go ahead with that if I can't even use the extra angle that I have right now.

[KAs14slider]

Just to give you an idea this is how much angle I have at the moment. Sorry for the poor pic.

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f357/kas14slider/Knucks_zpsa6c8e2df.jpg

[Abercrombie Motor Sports]

if you are spinning more easily than before the knuckles the first thing i would do is jack up the front of the car, put it at full lock, and spin both tires makeing sure you have no rubing on each in ether direction. then set the bump stops accordingly. you want as much angle as possible with absolutely no rubbing.
these two statements are confusing me because there contradicting each other.
"Any time I would try to throw it in hard and get decent angle it would just spin."
"I need sapcers/overs for more angle but I don't want to go ahead with that if I can't even use the extra angle that I have right now."

when people say they cant use the angle they have it usually means they dont have enough power. not being able to use all your angle means your not reaching full lock not that you spinning. spinning means you ether dont have enough angle for how you are trying to drive your you arnt driving correctly.

your alignment setting are all with in reason and shouldnt be causing your problems. if you check for rubing on both wheels and dont have any in ether direction i would try to gain more clearance and run the bump stops in further for more angle then see how it feels.

also, since these are PBM knuckles i would contact Dan if you havnt already and see what he thinks.

[PoorMans180SX]

Are your toe measurements in or out? I'd set both to zero, I'm not a fan of toe.

Check the rubbing like Abercrombie said.

More angle requires more throttle, you're usually in it a lot more than with stock knuckles.

Do you have FLCA bushings installed? A tension rod brace? What arms/bushings do you have in back?

[KAs14slider]

The first thing I did is adjust my bump stops. They are almost all the way out because I hit my tension rods. I adjusted them to right before I hit them. My wheel spun freely on full lock on the lift. But after driving yesterday I noticed that the inside of my wheel hits my frame rail. And talking to a few of the guys that were drifting with us yesterday, they said they just pounded that spot in. So that is something i will do. But it is strange to me that this would make such a difference. My good friend that lives in Ohio drives a 20b fc in MDU and he says his angle is limited by his wheel hitting his frame or arm (I can't remember which at the moment) and he drives just fine at lock.

As for my toe settings they are toe in. And they are basically zero. I mean 1.xxx mm is very minimal. Practically zero.

And I understand how to drive with knuckles. I have driven a few cars before that have knuckles. My friend has a cressida with a stock vvti 1jz and it has plenty of power to hold good angle with knuckles. My s14 has a 387whp 1jz so I know I am not lacking in power.

[KAs14slider]

Do you have FLCA bushings installed? A tension rod brace? What arms/bushings do you have in back?

I have flca bushigns, no tension rod brace like a nismo power brace but my tension rod brackets are boxed. As far as arms and bushings, that is where I am lacking. I have cheap ass godspeed adjustable arms all around. I am working on replacing those with quality pieces. And I have subframe bushings ready to be installed in the back but I have not gone ahead with that because my chassis has only about 70,xxx miles and the back end feels fine. No clunking or other noises.

[KAs14slider]

these two statements are confusing me because there contradicting each other.
"Any time I would try to throw it in hard and get decent angle it would just spin."
"I need sapcers/overs for more angle but I don't want to go ahead with that if I can't even use the extra angle that I have right now."




The only thing I meant by this is I could throw the car into a corner with more angle before the knuckles. Now when I try to do a nice entry it spins. And the second part of the statement means that right now I don't have as much angle as I possibly could if I were to get spacers/overs. But I definitely have more angle than stock. So before I try to get even more angle out of the setup, I want to be able to use the extra angle that I already have. And at the moment, I can't even do that.

[KAs14slider]

I was also thinking that maybe I need to play with tire pressures and maybe my dampening in the back to get traction at angle.

[Abercrombie Motor Sports]

you should not be running toe in. ether run zero toe or 1mm to 2mm out. toe in will make your car feel very twitchy and over sensitive and unstable at lock.

[KAs14slider]

you should not be running toe in. ether run zero toe or 1mm to 2mm out. toe in will make your car feel very twitchy and over sensitive and unstable at lock.

Oh, ok. I always thought with knuckles and power you want a bit of toe in in the back to have good traction.

[Abercrombie Motor Sports]

Oh, ok. I always thought with knuckles and power you want a bit of toe in in the back to have good traction.

i was refereeing to the front. but you should definitely have the rear toe at 0