Your first time autocrossing

[DSC]

woohoo! This sunday I'm gona go auto-x for the first time! I'm sooo frickin excited! How was everybodies first time at the track (or parkin lot <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>)? Any tips or info on how these go down? I'm excited but kinda nervious to cauz I don't know what to expect really. I've been reading up a lot over at turnfast (http://www.turnfast.com) but anybody have any specific auto-xing tips? Thanks in advance. Oh and did I mention WOOHOO!

[LanceS13]

hmmm...let me give it a shot.
-take sunscreen
-walk the course several times before the event
-ride with a veteran autox'er before your first run
-slow is fast
-if you start to really lose control, forget the course and regain control in a safe manner
-keep a subconcious eye out for a red-flag waving corner worker
-don't expect to win your first time out
-make sure tire pressure is at least 35psi
-check your equipment and make sure everything is in good running condition
-take out the spare tire and jack to save weight and pass tech inspection
-when you walk the course, kindly ask one of the veterans to walk with you and possibly give you some tips
-don't expect to get out of 2nd gear
-if you have limited bolt ons and suspension work and street tires, STS (street touring/street tire) is usually easier than DSP (D street prepared)....if you're stock, you'll be in ES (E stock).
-go slower than normal on your first run. &nbsp;This serves the dual purpose of &quot;walking&quot; the course in your car and, psychologically, your subsequent runs should be faster and faster...I usually feel better if my last run was my fastest
-make friends...it's not only competition, but it's great fellowship
-HAVE FUN!!!:biggrin:

[Drifting Ricer]

Hey lance what are good suspension mods. I'm planing on Koni (yellow) shocks first.

-Front strut
-Rear strut
-springs or coilovers hey what's the diff? I want to adjustable height.
Any other mods to help me handle corners better?

How much $$$ you have to pay for auto-X? I want to run next spring so I want to get ready now.

[DSC]

I was gona get an stb, but it would take me out of stock class <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':('> so I didn't bother...not for my first time out anyway. &nbsp;After I go for my first time I'm gona get front stb and front and read anti-sway bars. &nbsp;And ricer, there a billion threads about all that suspension stuff, do a search. &nbsp;From what i've heard coilovers are too stiff for everyday driving but I guess mark and others do it so why not...good ones will set you back close to 2k i think tho. &nbsp;The local club hosting the event charges $20 per person and promise you'll get ATLEAST 3 or 4 runs. &nbsp;

[LanceS13]

Depending on if you're a SCCA member or not and whether it's a one day or two day event, entry fees normally range from $20-$50.

If you have an S13, the KYB AGX's are a very comparable and cheaper alternative to the Koni Yellows. &nbsp;If it's an S14, the Koni's are pretty much your only option for ride adjustable struts. &nbsp;The advantages of a good coilover system have little to do with height adjustability IMO...mainly they have shorter &quot;bodies&quot; so you get a little more travel and spring rates are usually stiffer. &nbsp;Ride height changes will throw off your alignment which may affect handling. &nbsp;I'm quite happy with my AGX/ProKit combo...it gets the job done and cost about half as much as a coilover system. &nbsp;If one day, I have an extra $2000 lying around, I might look into coilovers.;) &nbsp;
Especially if you have a fastback S13, get strut tower bars. &nbsp;It stiffens the chassis, making the car more predictable and giving the driver more confidence in the corners.
I'm currently experimenting with sway bars. &nbsp;They're a definite help, but I'm trying to figure out if the rear is sufficient or if you should get the matching front. &nbsp;After a weekend of autox'ing and road driving, I think I'll soon be purchasing the front bar as well. &nbsp;The rear bar alone seems to have caused the car to snap oversteer in certain situations...which makes me nervous.:) &nbsp;The front bar will likely help in cornering response more as well since that's where all the steering input goes. &nbsp;So I say get both sway bars.
As previously mentioned, I'm running Eibach ProKit springs which gives about a 1.7&quot; drop on the S13 and I believe 1.3&quot; on the S14. &nbsp;These are very good all around springs IMO. &nbsp;They're soft enough for a comfortable ride, but stiff enough to make a big difference over stock.
If it's an older car (S13), new polyU bushings may solve some play and give in the suspension.

This is pretty much what I have (except for the front sway bar), and I placed 8th out of 22 at this weekend's very competitive tri-state event....pretty good considering this is only my fourth event in this car.

[Drifting Ricer]

Oops I didn't mean asking about &nbsp;the 2k coilover system like the apexi N1(sorry). I meant like ride adjustable springs. Because I want my car stock height in the winter and low in the summer. I have a s14 so I'm stuck with the Konis. So the Eibach prokit is ride adjustable? Because my car will turn into a mini snow shove in the winter if it's not. &nbsp;Guess when the time comes I'll really look into getting all four bars. I got to take things one step at a time.

[LanceS13]

There's no such thing as height adjustable springs. &nbsp;Unless you mean &quot;coilover&quot; sleeves. &nbsp;These are not true coilovers and from what I hear aren't very good for performance handling. &nbsp;I think the ProKit would be a good choice b/c lowering isn't too drastic...especially for the S14. &nbsp;You'll feel it more than you'll see it.
If you go one step at a time, I suggest do it in this sequence:
1. strut tower bars (you can get both for $100 at rollhard.com
2. adjustable struts
3. springs (it's easier if you do struts and springs simultaneously)
4. rear sway bar if you have a stock front...if you don't have a stock front, get a front bar first
5. whichever sway bar you didn't get #4.

[BlankFlip]

if u wanna read up on the shocks/struts i got for my s14, here's the link for their site. if u wanna understand some of the concepts behind suspension and how it all works, this site explains it 2. keep in mind that u can't adjust the stiffness of these (the ones made for our cars). here's the link:

<a href="http://www.tokicogasshocks.com" target='_blank'>http://www.tokicogasshocks.com</a>

[Drifting Ricer]

Boy I felt pretty dumb just now <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':('>. Well I knew you could get you're ride height adjusted some how. One of my Honda friend had one of those things (coilover sleeves). So you now were I'm coming from. I have to get the struts/shocks now because I already have 2 blown struts and 1 blown shock, you should check my other thread. Were I'm pretty much asking the something. &nbsp;Still in the process of finding a track in my area.

Ps. Yo thanks allot Lance and DSC for clearing up some confusion in my head.

[LanceS13]

No problem DR...it's better to ask a dumb question and learn than don't ask and stay ignorant.:) &nbsp;We've all been there at one point or another.
For tracks/autox's/event info, this page may be a good starting point...<a href="http://www.scca.org/getstarted/nediv.html" target='_blank'>http://www.scca.org/getstarted/nediv.html</a>

[DSC]

Cool link lance. &nbsp;Man I wana go race NOW <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'> &nbsp;But I refuse to streetrace(not that it would be the same anyway), so I'll just have to wait. &nbsp;Heh, ricer, thats what happens when you hang with those honda boys <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'> j/k

[chickenmanq]

Sheet metal was made to get dinged up. &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

[Drifting Ricer]

Yeah I know bad honda boys. &nbsp;Lance that link was just what I was looking for thanks. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'> you made my day.

[yenpit]

read, read, and re-read Lance's &nbsp;FIRST post !! the mistakes most people make are right there. read it and u'll have a GREAT time! look at it and go &quot;balls out!!&quot; and u wont. i see it every time we have a newcomer. take this first event slow, speed it up next time if ur comfortable. &nbsp;just remember....ur adrenalin will be pumpin out ur ears! u'll be shakin after each run! the day will go by in a blink. we're done for the year up here in the frozen north.....go to have FUN!! i hate withdrawls.....:(

[HippoSleek]

I'd add that a third read on Lance's advice is in order. &nbsp;I also would like to stress that taking your first run (or two) slow will do you more good than you would expect. &nbsp;Leaning the course is the most fundamental aspect to succeeding in autox.

The other thing is to enjoy the car in stock form. &nbsp;The s14 is plenty competitive in E-Stock, so don't rush to modifications just for autox. &nbsp;If you learn the car and the nature of autox driving, you will do even better when you upgrade. &nbsp;Otherwise, you are likely to find yourself in a field of well prepared cars with vetran drivers (STS) before you are ready to face them.

[Chokudori]

I had my first autocross experience last Sunday. It was pretty cool. I was surprised that I placed 2nd in my class. (E-Stock). Overall standing was something like 67 out of 122 cars. So I guess it wasn't too bad.

The body roll on my S14 was quite annoying, so I'm looking into a new suspension set right now. I don't think I'll mind going into STS just so I could enjoy the run a bit more. Who cares about placement, just as long as if you enjoy it. (although it is nice to be faster than others)

So far, it seems like the Tokico Blues/Eibach Prokit sounds good. I really want to minimize the drop, while decreasing the body roll. Do you guys have any suggestions?

[Drifting Ricer]

Wait even if all I do for power is an exhaust that will put me in street prepared? I'll probably going to have stock tires. &nbsp;I went to the site and I missed the racing season. But I have until April to get ready. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'> Good enough time to get good at driving and do some mods. I can't wait so I can finally drive the way I want to and not worry about those #### pigs. &nbsp;Yeah I know I can drag too but well this should be allot more fun. Any ideas so can practice in the mean time?

[HippoSleek]

To decrease body roll, sway bars (a/k/a &quot;anti-roll bars) are the key. Do you have an SE? I've found that the stock bars held down the roll quite a bit - enough so that my first gripe was the struts rebounding ability. Compared to other cars I've owned, body roll was the least of my problems with the stock s14.

(Edited by HippoSleek at 10:53 am on Nov. 20, 2001)

[LanceS13]

E Stock actually allows a &quot;reasonably quiet&quot; (not strait pipe) cat back exhaust, aftermarket struts, front anti-roll bar replacement, and aftermarket air filter (not cold air intake). &nbsp;The 240 is already very competitive in ES...these mods, with the possible exception of the front sway bar, should make it even moreso. &nbsp;If you go beyond these, you'll get bumped up a class and things get tougher.
For practice...I guess, if possible, gets some cones and practice your 60-0 breaking distance and slolam (alot of hand/arm movement) in an empty parking lot.

[Chokudori]

DriftingRicer- You are allowed to have intake and exhaust in E-stock. That is what I have.

HippoSleek- I have a SE. I didn't have much of a bodyroll comlaint until I autocrossed. It seems to give away when pushed to the limit. But it feels pretty good on the mountains.

LanceS13- I am pretty sure that aftermarket struts will put you in STS. (Street touring) Same for anti-roll bar.

[yenpit]

choose what group (ie SCCA, or a regional group) ur gonna autox with and get their rule book.....itll tell u what u can mod for each class. word of mouth often gets mixed up....whats on paper!?!

[LanceS13]

what I stated comes from the 2001 SCCA rulebook...if it's an SCCA sanctioned event, then struts are legal for stock, but the intake (besides the filter element) is not.

[konkman]

So would a K&amp;N cone filter count as just a filter element?

[HippoSleek]

Cone would be illegal - a drop in &quot;filter charger&quot; is okay. &nbsp;Struts can be replaced (they are a wear item) as can tires. &nbsp;

Tires are, IMHO, THE most important part of an autox set up. &nbsp;My runs in the 240 have been on high perf. all seasons (a contradiction in terms!), and I know that they are costing me at least a couple seconds per run! &nbsp;When I had my other car with a prepped susp., I dropped 2.3 sec. (vs. others I regularly drive vs.) running AVSi's instead of all season Michelins. &nbsp;IIRC, you can use R compounds in ES - not that I would advise that.

More advice about the go slow first run - the red car you see in this shot (sorta on the right) belongs to a very skilled DC area driver. &nbsp;It's a 2001 Z06 that was at an event last Sunday. &nbsp;It went off in the FIRST RUN, hit the dumpsters you see and cracked up pretty good (fender, hood, lights, wheel/tire, airbags, etc.). &nbsp;KEEP IT SLOW and KEEP IN CONTROL!! &nbsp;Autox is very safe, unless you get out of control with too much speed.
[img]http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=998383&amp;a=14005629&amp;p=56531541&amp;Sequence=0&amp;res =high[img/]

Chok - I agree it flops too much in hard transitions, but I found that I would spin before roll enough to bottom. &nbsp;#### cheap tires! <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

[LanceS13]

here you go Hippo
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=998383&amp;a=14005629&amp;p=56531541&amp;Sequence=0&amp;res =high
Why would not suggest running R compound tires? &nbsp;Most local events class cars as open tire and street tire, but if you ever get serious enough to run a national tour (where they don't recognize tire differences), you're gonna get your butt kicked with street tires.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I already have 2 blown struts and 1 blown shock</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

didnt all s-13s have struts all around? the s14's do im pretty sure, right? :confused:

[onebadm5]

remember, drifting may look cool and fun, but its not the fastest way around the course. the fastest car is usually the one that squeals the least amount of tire and makes the least amount of smoke.

[HippoSleek]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from LanceS13 on 6:49 am on Nov. 21, 2001
Why would not suggest running R compound tires? Most local events class cars as open tire and street tire, but if you ever get serious enough to run a national tour (where they don't recognize tire differences), you're gonna get your butt kicked with street tires.
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

Thanks for the help <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'> &nbsp;I just thought that was such a good picture of what NOT to do!

As for the tires - R compounds are great after you know what you are doing (especially since you can use them in stock class at many local levels). &nbsp;The problem I've seen is that people on R's that don't have enough experience (and some that do) don't appreciate the amount of grip they have... or the fact that there is no warning when they give out, unlike street tires! &nbsp;

On another message board, there was a big discussion about how many cars have in wrecks at autox events this year in our region (2 throw aways, 4 airbags (incl. 2 vette's &amp; a boxter - ouch), and numerous scrapes). &nbsp;In almost every case, the car was on R compounds. &nbsp;The problem is that, at speed, they lose grip w/o warning and suddenly you are going toward a tree, pole, or dumpster. &nbsp;For an experienced driver, this *usually* isn't a problem. &nbsp;But a novice can get in trouble FAST. &nbsp;A street tire, by contrast, will howl and slip, giving enough warning to back out of the throttle and/or give up the line. &nbsp;To me, R compounds are just too intense for a novice driver and don't allow him/her the control skills so vital to autox or open track success. &nbsp;I'll grant you, however, that once you are at the national level you are dead without them.

[BlankFlip]

i only have r compound tires in the rear, but i guess after reading this it isn't a good thing. i have never got to really DRIVE my car like in an autox event though.

[Drifting Ricer]

What does compound R stand for. What exactly is and who much for it (the tires)? I just would like to know. I I'll keep my car tires stock 'cause I don't want to loose control and hit someone trying to pick up a cone. Like I said I want to do it one step at a time. Hey how long you been auto-xing lances13 and hippo? &nbsp;Can people pull show drift in auto-x?

nismos14: no we don't have struts all around just in the front. Atleast in the s14. I think our cars should of had the multi-link in the front. So we can handle even better. Are miatas of some HP better cars?

[LanceS13]

R compound stands for racing compound...really soft, sticky rubber that's wears quicker and is more expensive than street rubber.
I've been autox'ing off and on for about 2 years...but just 6 months with this particular car.
I'm not sure how the officials would look upon someone pulling show drifts. &nbsp;The idea is to be fast, not to show off. &nbsp;I guess as long as you maintain control it's fine...are you really that good at it? &nbsp;Personally, I say just keep 'em planted.
And Miatas are classed above the 240sx b/c handling characteristics and weight play a bigger roll than horsepower. &nbsp;We may have a 30hp advantage, but they have a 400-500 lb. advantage. &nbsp;At my last autox, I trailed a 485hp Saleen S-351(?) by about a second...my car has ~160hp but it's lighter.

[HippoSleek]

My autox history is about like Lance's, getting increasingly serious since my first spin about 3 yrs. ago, but shorter in the 240 (only a few events). &nbsp;I was more serious about it when I had my prepped Si hatch. &nbsp;Lately, I've seen the evil of track days and now save all my money for entry fees and brake pads <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>. &nbsp;

Car classing is an odd science - I've been killed by 70-some hp CRX's running H-Stock and I've had time that beat a 650 hp, supercharged SS running in SM. &nbsp;

Blank - I don't know about R's in the rear only... after driving all weekend in the rain on high perf. M+S tires, I can't imagine R's :o

Drifiting - autox is not really the place for drifting. &nbsp;I've seen people do it under the excuse of &quot;buy it's my Mom's Lincoln... My S2000 is in the shop.&quot; &nbsp;Funny to watch, but they were very controlled, small slides (that still rose a few eye-brows). &nbsp;Generally, I've found the course too tight for that - except on rare occassions where I have just lost control after fighting the slides. &nbsp;If you are obsessed with drifting, find a lot or go to one of the track events that offers drifting (seems to be mostly in CA, though).

[BlankFlip]

s14

<a href="http://www.carparts.com/parts/newsearch2.asp?reflink=58715-0-0-0-0&sourceid=2&parttypeid=3105&itemid=7498&autoidsearch=YES" target='_blank'>http://www.carparts.com/parts....rch=YES</a>

[Drifting Ricer]

Now I'm a drifter in training that really hasn't started yet.... Still looking for a magical parking lot to go crazy on <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>. My suspension really suck ass right now. Anyway I want to go full on in auto X-ing next year. &nbsp;What this mean Externally Adjustable Feature and McPherson Strut Cartridge Body Style. Special McPherson Strut Insert Bolted Into Original Equipment Housing After Cutting Top And Removing Old Internal Parts. . Does that mean is a it's not a real strut? I'm a little :confused:. &nbsp;I want to buy them but I back off today because off that reason.

(Edited by Drifting Ricer at 7:13 am on Nov. 27, 2001)

[drifterx]

i went to the SCCA site... and it is overwhelming......... my poor head...........
too many school hours, fees, and long distance calls.....

*SIGH*

[LanceS13]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from drifterx on 11:26 pm on Nov. 26, 2001
i went to the SCCA site... and it is overwhelming......... my poor head...........
too many school hours, fees, and long distance calls.....

*SIGH*
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
:confused: what do you mean?
If you're younger than 26, join speedfreaks for like half the normal membership price...and what school hours and long distance calls???

[HippoSleek]

You do not need an SCCA license to autox. &nbsp;In fact, you don't even need to be a member (although it will save you a few bucks at SCCA events). &nbsp;The license is only to go fender to fender racing. &nbsp;No excuse not to autox now :biggrin:

SCCA club racing... the reason I might actually buy an s13!

[Chokudori]

Yeah, SOLOII's pretty cheap... well, $30 is not that cheap. But all you need to do is show up early in the morning with $30 and tell them it's your first time.

SOLOI's get kinda steep in price though... But that is what I'm going to be doing in the future.

[HippoSleek]

*Depending on your area* &nbsp;In the DC region, counsel events (SCCA sponsored) are posted on the local website three weeks before they occur. &nbsp;Registration opens on Sunday at 8<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'>0 p.m. &nbsp;If you have not registered by 9<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'>0 p.m., you will be on the waitlist. &nbsp;Just in case, you may want to call/email your local chapter to find out the procedures.