Saikou Michi catch cans? Info/pics wanted

[BlackZenkiS14]

Any of you guys using a Saikou Michi catch can? Which model did you get? Pics of it installed?

Thoughts on results/performance?

Edit: sorry for title spelling error...damn iPad auto correct.

http://www.saikoumichi.com/ for reference.

[w0nderbr3ad]

I've read forum posts about people who have nothing but praise from them, but most people are just fine w/ any baffled catch can.

[Matej]

They state they are not blingy or flashy, yet they are bright red or trendy flat black, with a giant logo on them, sold under a pseudo-Japanese company name.

[240sxfan6882]

They've made some custom fittings for me and other adapters. All I can say is great communication, awesome welds and fast shipping. They are based in AZ

[Croustibat]

Dude, it is a catch can. Any empty beer bottle will yield the same results.

[Mikester]

Dude, it is a catch can. Any empty beer bottle will yield the same results.

^^This^^

Kyle,

Not understanding the motivation here. If you are concerned with name brand etc... Get a GReddy, Sard or Cusco & call it a day. I know you like at least a little bit of aesthetics too- Plenty of other reasonable options that don't have a billion years of lead time.

Shit- you can prolly have Omar fab you up an awesome one cheaper than that place.

[BlackZenkiS14]

Their design is better than Greddy by a long shot actually.

But I just want a nice baffled catch can, but don't want something that everyone else has I guess lol

But no, an empty beer bottle does not do the same thing at all...

[blueshark123]

I run one but i have ls1 so I'm running the dual can setup. I Just installed it 2 weeks ago so far its been good no complains here. I asked for no logo in black as well. Very easy to deal with just email them if u have any questions or concerns.

[Prok0]

To everyone saying there isnt a difference between a gatorade bottle and a catch can... There is a difference between a simple catch (gatorade bottle, unbaffled catch can), and an actual baffled Oil/Air separator.

If you run your PCV system with a return to your intake you would want a baffled set up to knock the fine oil mist out of suspension in the air so that it does not go back into the intake of the turbo, and ultimately into the combustion chamber where it can increase the chance of detonation.

Most people do not run a PCV setup like this, but it does yield some benefits, as you will be actively scavenging pressure out of the crank case which can promote better ring sealing and ultimately higher horsepower. If you read up on vacuum pumps or check valves in the downpipes/headers of higher hp applications pulling from the PCV you can see those guys will gain a decent amount of power by running those types of setups.

At any rate, a guy i know ran the Saikou Michi stuff and seemed to be pretty happy with it, seemed to catch a good amount of oil without pushing thru the catch can and back into the intake

Another good looking setup to check out is Radium
Universal Catch Can Kit (http://www.radiumauto.com/Universal-Catch-Can-Kit-P178.aspx)

[WV_SR20]

That Radium one looks badass, the dipstick is a cool feature as well.

[Mikester]

Of course a beer bottle will not do the same thing... but even a decent catch can will trap more than it allows to pass if set up properly...

Not saying there are not performance advantages to baffling... optimally, no matter what you do, it's a great thing to have.

[BlackZenkiS14]

Yea, exactly, and the Saikou one really isn't that expensive at all. :)

[Croustibat]

Their design is better than Greddy by a long shot actually.

But I just want a nice baffled catch can, but don't want something that everyone else has I guess lol

But no, an empty beer bottle does not do the same thing at all...

Yes, it does. Actually you need to add some metal mesh, i dont know the word for it. You can use these things to clean dishes. This allows to condensate the oil vapors in the same way baffles will do. Call it poor mans catch can if you want.
But most of the thing that it will condensate will be water vapor going in at night. I know because that is what i find in mine.

BTW if your engine is in GWO and your oil is good too, it wont make a lot of oil vapor, if any. And if your engine produces a lot of oil vapor, i strongly suggest you start by repairing it, and use quality oil, before buying a catch can. Fixing problems is much better than masking consequences. The fine mist proko is talking about is nearly non existent on a healthy engine. I know it because it "suddenly disappeared" last time i had mine overhauled. Good fresh oil, new oil pump, new gaskets. Rings were fine. No more oil vapor, just a very small deposit once in a while. There is a bit more at the end of a trackday, but i am talking milliliters here. Bad rings / leaking valve seat are the usual oil vapor producers.

Now as far as performance is concerned... we are not running F1 engines. If you were running a very tight tolerance engine with high boost, like people use when drag racing, then yes you'd need to do something about crank case pressure. But this has nothing to do with oil vapor.

If you want some shiny item, then by all mean buy these. But dont be fooled by performance claims; it wont do better than a beer can with some metal mesh in it.

[VNG704]

So then no, an empty can won't do the same. Saikou michi internal design is good stuff. Cheaper than a greddy, can be custom built to your specifics, not even shiny. Sounds like a good buy to me. Nobody has an ideally healthy engine all the time. It's not about bandaiding

[Mikester]

Viva la Croustibat lol!

[g35gabby]

The Saikou cans are big in the mazda community. Lots of the guys my husband hangs with have them and are all pretty jazzed about them. They really aren't anything super special, but they are pretty decent.

if you want pretty, SURE motorsports makes a pretty one.
Oil Rig (http://www.suremotorsports.com/products/performance/oil-rig/)

but in the end, I have done the gatorade thing and even the Greddy and been happy with either with a little metal mesh.

[BlackZenkiS14]

I'm not going to argue, and really don't care if you use an empty beer bottle for a "catch can" , and do nothing to to pull vacuum in your crankcase.

But for my engine, I want better, and a properly setup closed loop catch can is probably on the list.

[waxball88]

Forgive the clutteredness.
Neukin makes a baffled catch can, very nice! Had a -6 welded for my PCV. Not sure if they are still producing them, i lucked out and paid 35 shipped for it. Great piece, very versatile can mount in the rear of the bay or any other location and not feel out of place.
http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u116/waxball88/A31E1A46-BF10-474C-A8BE-3EBEF3A457D2-3074-00000133EDFD1E40_zpsa34e475f.jpg (http://s166.photobucket.com/user/waxball88/media/A31E1A46-BF10-474C-A8BE-3EBEF3A457D2-3074-00000133EDFD1E40_zpsa34e475f.jpg.html)

[Croustibat]

I'm not going to argue, and really don't care if you use an empty beer bottle for a "catch can" , and do nothing to to pull vacuum in your crankcase.


The pipes are called breather pipes for a reason; pressure goes up and down with every piston movement.

Unless you are really building pressure badly in your crankcase, you dont need to pull vacuum. You need to equalize pressure between crankcase and head, to avoid oil pooling up there and thats it.

Crankcase pressure becomes a problem when it goes so high it cant equalize, and it blocks oil from going back to the crank case. That happens when rings dont do their job anymore, which means your engine either needs a rebuild or you are pushing some tons of boost. I am talking 700+ HP territory here.

I know the current trend is all about oil mist, catch can, crank scrapers and so on. But guess what ? You dont need all that. Sure, it is "better", but the question is "do you need it". And the answer is "no". You may want it because it is trendy, it looks cool, or just any other reason, but you dont need it.


But for my engine, I want better, and a properly setup closed loop catch can is probably on the list.

Then go dry sump. It is even better. Dont tell me you dont need it; you dont need the closed loop catch can either. and you dont need the vacuumed crankcase either.

Yes, sure, vacuum is better, as oil gets sucked down to the crankcase instead of just using gravity. But do you have oil pooling in the head ? If the answer is no, then you dont need vacuum, it is simple as that.

And if you want the ultimate engine tech ... buy a race engine. these usually come with dry sump and cylinders have "walls" on the bottom, and various pressure equalizing system. They are designed to take a beating and output high HP somewhat reliably, to an extent no one can reach with the engines we use.

TL;DR:
Yes vacuum is better, but you dont need it.

[Kingtal0n]

The pipes are called breather pipes for a reason; pressure goes up and down with every piston movement.

Unless you are really building pressure badly in your crankcase, you dont need to pull vacuum. You need to equalize pressure between crankcase and head, to avoid oil pooling up there and thats it.

Crankcase pressure becomes a problem when it goes so high it cant equalize, and it blocks oil from going back to the crank case. That happens when rings dont do their job anymore, which means your engine either needs a rebuild or you are pushing some tons of boost. I am talking 700+ HP territory here.

I know the current trend is all about oil mist, catch can, crank scrapers and so on. But guess what ? You dont need all that. Sure, it is "better", but the question is "do you need it". And the answer is "no". You may want it because it is trendy, it looks cool, or just any other reason, but you dont need it.



Then go dry sump. It is even better. Dont tell me you dont need it; you dont need the closed loop catch can either. and you dont need the vacuumed crankcase either.

Yes, sure, vacuum is better, as oil gets sucked down to the crankcase instead of just using gravity. But do you have oil pooling in the head ? If the answer is no, then you dont need vacuum, it is simple as that.


Yes vacuum is better, but you dont need it.


You dont need it? Then why does nearly every engine manufacturer in the world have it on their OEM engine?


Dont take my word for it, do some research.


Most people do not run a PCV setup like this, but it does yield some benefits, as you will be actively scavenging pressure out of the crank case which can promote better ring sealing and ultimately higher horsepower. If you read up on vacuum pumps or check valves in the downpipes/headers of higher hp applications pulling from the PCV you can see those guys will gain a decent amount of power by running those types of setups.

[Mikester]

^^Read...^^

He said it's better, but you technically don't need it. THAT'S why every OEM engine has it these days. Keep crankcase pressures equalized, engine doesn't have to work as hard = Longevity.

As far as HOW you go about it... so long as there is a venue to equalize, baffling really doesn't matter.

All I can say to the rest of you is that you gotta know Kyle. He's had a bad experience or two with his SR's... He has since gotten a proper setup and wants to do everything he can to ensure longevity. IIRC, he already stated that he's happy with his 300-ish hp and wants maybe a tad more; but does not have delusions of 10sec 1/4 miles lol. Kyle is also about doing plenty of research to make sure what he gets will actually work well with his setup before buying...

Kyle, the bottom line here is that a catch can is a catch can- baffled or not. Whatever you get will be fine... While you're at it, you may as well put a fresh PCV valve in- they are cheap.

[BlackZenkiS14]

PVC is only a few thousand miles old ;)

But yea, bought a Saikou Michi catch can, was a little over 100 shipped, not bad, same price as anything else, and this is a custom handmade quality part.

Croustibat, thanks for your opinion, and I'm glad you don't feel the need to run one on your car. On my car, I'll have one. And it won't hurt anyone. :) this thread wasn't at all asking if I needed a catch can, but I'm glad you over explained yourself for no reason lol

[Kingtal0n]

Keep crankcase pressures equalized, engine doesn't have to work as hard = Longevity.


now YOU read. It has nothing to do with keeping "crankcase pressure equalized" that is a BAD thing. It clearly says


as you will be actively scavenging pressure out of the crank case which can promote better ring sealing and ultimately higher horsepower.


You want the crankcase pressure to be LESS than atmospheric pressure. The lower it is compared to atmospheric, the better.
The increase in longevity is due to many things, among them, removal of corrosive crankcase vapors.

[blueshark123]

This got way off topic. Have fun with the catch can I'm sure you will enjoy it.

[BlackZenkiS14]

You want the crankcase pressure to be LESS than atmospheric pressure. The lower it is compared to atmospheric, the better.
The increase in longevity is due to many things, among them, removal of corrosive crankcase vapors.

Boom! That's it.

And thanks, I'm excited to get it! I'll be sure to post up pics after install, and tell you how it gained me 100whp, and now can do wheelies. Pretty stoked to do wheelies.

[Mikester]

^^LMAO have Omar fab me up a hood mounted seat so you can use me to keep the front wheels on the ground- should be fun as hell to film from there ;)

[ultimateirving]

PVC is only a few thousand miles old ;)

But yea, bought a Saikou Michi catch can, was a little over 100 shipped, not bad, same price as anything else, and this is a custom handmade quality part.

Croustibat, thanks for your opinion, and I'm glad you don't feel the need to run one on your car. On my car, I'll have one. And it won't hurt anyone. :) this thread wasn't at all asking if I needed a catch can, but I'm glad you over explained yourself for no reason lol

Your smart enough to run one BlackZ, And crousti can you name any valid reasons why not to run one?
Because other than having to empty it i cant think of a detriment..

[Croustibat]

Your smart enough to run one BlackZ, And crousti can you name any valid reasons why not to run one?
Because other than having to empty it i cant think of a detriment..

Actually I have 2 reasons to run the "beer can" + mesh. And a third to run an open system, although that is not related to pennyless catch can vs expensive catch can, it is more related to plumbing.

So, reasons :
1/ cost. Empty beer can is free.
2/ similar, if not identical, efficiency.

Now pros and cons of closed system :

Pros :
- closed is environmentally better. You get to recycle or condense oil vapors instead of dumping it in the air.
- no water can enter the system at night.
- you dont need to empty it / check if it is full. It is nearly maintenance free.

cons:
-condensed oil has lost its additives. It lost quite some lubrication properties and temperature resistance.
-you cant catch all the oil vapors, and some will go in the intake, which does lower octane rating and create deposits when it burns. Oil vapors are mostly created when the car is thrashed, and this is exactly when you dont want your octane rating to go lower, as you might be at the verge of detting. In any case it is a vicious circle, the more vapor reaches intake, the more gets produced basically, the more you are lowering octane rating. Until overheat or holes in pistons/destroyed ringlands happen. So yes, a bit less reliable than an open system.

-plumbing is more complex. On a MAF system, it means more leaks opportunities (and it WILL leak at some point, it just is a matter of time). MAP/IAT would be OK.

-if oil pools in the tank and gets sucked, by the intake, it will syphon the sump. Oil will then go by the breather and into the intake manifold. It equals dead engine in a matter of seconds. Usually happens when there is a venting problem, or too much oil in the engine. It is pretty rare, but it does happen. On diesel engines it really is even worse, as there is no butterfly; the engines goes "full power" for some minutes, then dies from oil starvation.

I do prefer my intake air without oil, and i'd be running an open beer can system if i was not so lazy. Instead i am running a 20$ ebay jobbie that came with a gauge, 16mm in/out, an emptying bolt and some bracket.
I added some metal mesh in it, and there i go.

Can hardly go cheaper, and it works like i want it to work.

There is no harm in wanting a clean, high quality closed system. You just have to know the difference between closed/open and cheap/expensive solutions, and chose according to what you accept.

[codyace]

All this catch can talk when the OEM one is the same setup as these pricey ones.

PCV, OEM seperator from block vent to the valve cover T, and front of T to a ebay can and then from that can to the intake. The OE seperated knocks out all the oil, and I've not even got a drop in the catch can in the 8 years of driving it (aside from when I melted a hole years ago and drove it home).

[Croustibat]

Thats what i was trying to say.

There is already condensing baffles in the cam covers. If a closed loop catch can catches lots of oil vapors, it means there is another problem (poor oil, worn engine mostly).

[BlackZenkiS14]

All this catch can talk when the OEM one is the same setup as these pricey ones.

PCV, OEM seperator from block vent to the valve cover T, and front of T to a ebay can and then from that can to the intake. The OE seperated knocks out all the oil, and I've not even got a drop in the catch can in the 8 years of driving it (aside from when I melted a hole years ago and drove it home).

Yea I've got the OEM one on the block vent still, just wanted something for the intake as well. Saikou Michi really wasn't that expensive.

[Kingtal0n]

All this catch can talk when the OEM one is the same setup as these pricey ones.

PCV, OEM seperator from block vent to the valve cover T, and front of T to a ebay can and then from that can to the intake. The OE seperated knocks out all the oil, and I've not even got a drop in the catch can in the 8 years of driving it (aside from when I melted a hole years ago and drove it home).

thus the factory has no such catch can between the valvecover and inlet. It is unnecessary.
And adding one (on most engines) is a mistake, because it will reduce the pressure drop at the valvecover, giving you less PCV action during boost.

[cotbu]

I said this before, if there is liquid oil in your catch can, there is an issue with something. My catch can doesn't have liquid oil in it at all. It has this sludge, thick crap about 4-6mm deep and I usually clean it out, but this time I just measured it.;) It's been 8 months.

I could probably get away without a catch can, but I don't even want that in my engine, even if it gets burnt up!

On a properly working engine, you could use a "beer can", but most engines are not spitting out oily air, but liquid oil. I would never send any of the oil that left the engine back into it!

PS, I don't have the OEM oil air separator anymore.


This post probably didn't have anything to do with the topic, it's just my 2¢

[BlackZenkiS14]

Yea, I don't anticipate on having much in the can at all. I just want it as a little added extra security to keep her clean. Same as cotbu and cody

[Kingtal0n]

It has this sludge, thick crap about 4-6mm deep and I usually clean it out, but this time I just measured it.;) It's been 8 months.

I could probably get away without a catch can, but I don't even want that in my engine, even if it gets burnt up!


This post probably didn't have anything to do with the topic, it's just my 2¢

Oh you are so right! Your post has everything to do with the subject.

Its true that when you remove the turbocharger inlet (that black rubber piece before the turbo inlet) you will often find that very black sludge you described so nicely for us. Notice that the rubber is convoluted? it actually has several places to catch that nasty black sludge, doesn't it? Not sure if that is by design or what- but that black rubber inlet does a great job of removing the sludge before it gets into the...

Where does it go next? The compressor inlet. Mine was always perfectly clean despite the black sludge buildup in the rubber intake plumbing. But lets pretend that I changed out that nice rubber convoluted piece for a regular old piece of aluminum.

The black sludge will now probably make it's way into the turbocharger's compressor. Yuk. Consider, however, the fact that even if this occurs, it still needs to pass through several feet of intercooler plumbing (as well as the intercooler) to actually get inside the engine.

Therefore, I would say, the real danger of the "black mystery sludge" is not to the engine; but to the compressor wheel. Furthermore, if you do not improperly modify your turbocharger's inlet tube, it will not reach the compressor wheel.

[cotbu]

Therefore, I would say, the real danger of the "black mystery sludge" is not to the engine; but to the compressor wheel. Furthermore, if you do not improperly modify your turbocharger's inlet tube, it will not reach the compressor wheel.I don't even want that in my engine, even if it gets burnt up!

I meant while it was still in vapor form.;)

[Kingtal0n]

I meant while it was still in vapor form.;)

Well I know what you meant but you may have missed the significance of what I am saying. The molecules that are "vapor" are either vapor because they exist purely as a vapor at any temperature, or because they are vaporized due to the heat of the internal combustion engine and intend to change states once the temperature changes (outside of the crankcase).

The sludge must have been at one point a "vaporized" molecule, that is how it escapes the crank case, as a gas state. It must change state once it cools, and seems to do so right after it leaves the crank case. You would expect it to collect anywhere along the way- in the plumbing leading up to and including the rubber tube before the compressor. In your case, it must collect along the way to the catch can. It might collect anywhere; not only your catch can, but also the hoses before the catch can. These are in no danger of being "burnt by the engine" because they will never make it to the throttle body, seeing how they cool and collect right after leaving the crank case.

Other "vapor" molecules that are a gas state even at cooler temperature remain gas state. Meaning they will bypass the catch can or anything else and eventually find their way into the engine. You do not see those, but those are the molecules being burnt by your engine. The factory undoubtedly knows about these and they do not seem to care; remember all original equipment utilizes PCV.

Summary:
#1 molecules that change state immediately after leaving the crank case (creates black sludge) will never make it to the throttle body regardless of having a catch can or not.
#2 molecules that never change state (remain a gas) are being burnt by the engine regardless of having a catch can or not.

A few exceptions exist, and I just thought of this. And it has no bearing whatsoever for us but I thought it worth mentioning. Some of the gas molecules that would normally not change state (to solid or liquid) could possibly be forced to interact with a catalyst in order to force a state change. It would be a very specific reaction, planned out, to pull a very specific molecule (or set of molecules) out of the gas state or even to alter their chemistry to be less... corrosive. Think of a catalytic converter; the device uses high temperature and a specific surface where specific reactions take place to alter the gasses leaving the engine. The whole chemistry is planned out in advance to provide a specific result for gasses leaving the tail pipe. The same could be done, if one was so inclined, to gasses leaving the crank case (before recycling them into the throttle body). You would need to know in advance what sorts of gasses you are expecting to leave the crankcase, and what reaction surface / temperatures are necessary to give the desired products.

[BlackZenkiS14]

Thoughts on results/performance?
http://www.glpp.info/hu6j.jpg

I don't have mine yet, but I'm sure I'll never notice a difference! Haha

[DET240SX]

To everyone saying there isnt a difference between a gatorade bottle and a catch can... There is a difference between a simple catch (gatorade bottle, unbaffled catch can), and an actual baffled Oil/Air separator.

If you run your PCV system with a return to your intake you would want a baffled set up to knock the fine oil mist out of suspension in the air so that it does not go back into the intake of the turbo, and ultimately into the combustion chamber where it can increase the chance of detonation.

Most people do not run a PCV setup like this, but it does yield some benefits, as you will be actively scavenging pressure out of the crank case which can promote better ring sealing and ultimately higher horsepower. If you read up on vacuum pumps or check valves in the downpipes/headers of higher hp applications pulling from the PCV you can see those guys will gain a decent amount of power by running those types of setups.

At any rate, a guy i know ran the Saikou Michi stuff and seemed to be pretty happy with it, seemed to catch a good amount of oil without pushing thru the catch can and back into the intake

Another good looking setup to check out is Radium
Universal Catch Can Kit (http://www.radiumauto.com/Universal-Catch-Can-Kit-P178.aspx)

Not to detour the thread at all, but man I just read the Radium catch can on their wesite - looks super legit! Good source, thanks for sharing!

[BlackZenkiS14]

They state they are not blingy or flashy, yet they are bright red or trendy flat blackhttp://www.glpp.info/hu6j.jpg

A+ post dude.

Good contribution.

[BlackZenkiS14]

Well, I just thought I'd post this up. Saikou Michi was super awesome to work with, great product, and great company as a whole. Fantastic communication, realistic ship times and followed through on all parts of the order. It's the way I wish every company did business.

I opted to have my can ent raw aluminum with orbital finish, so I can power coat locally and match my valve cover. They even reduced my price because of this. Awesome.

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee147/KyleCrangle/20130620_173646_zps3770a735.jpg (http://s228.photobucket.com/user/KyleCrangle/media/20130620_173646_zps3770a735.jpg.html)

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee147/KyleCrangle/20130620_143708_zpsae19e710.jpg (http://s228.photobucket.com/user/KyleCrangle/media/20130620_143708_zpsae19e710.jpg.html)

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee147/KyleCrangle/20130620_143737_zpsf60f01a9.jpg (http://s228.photobucket.com/user/KyleCrangle/media/20130620_143737_zpsf60f01a9.jpg.html)

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee147/KyleCrangle/20130620_143717_zps2ec03857.jpg (http://s228.photobucket.com/user/KyleCrangle/media/20130620_143717_zps2ec03857.jpg.html)

[BlackZenkiS14]

Got it installed today.

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee147/KyleCrangle/20130625_141431_zps0ed80cdc.jpg (http://s228.photobucket.com/user/KyleCrangle/media/20130625_141431_zps0ed80cdc.jpg.html)

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee147/KyleCrangle/20130625_141442_zpsc387afd1.jpg (http://s228.photobucket.com/user/KyleCrangle/media/20130625_141442_zpsc387afd1.jpg.html)

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee147/KyleCrangle/20130625_141452_zpsdce29f0b.jpg (http://s228.photobucket.com/user/KyleCrangle/media/20130625_141452_zpsdce29f0b.jpg.html)

[Matej]

Have you considered an S13.4 valve cover? :)

[RussellM]

Radium Engineering, end of story.

http://www.nissanparts.cc/catalog/nissan/IMG_9759%20sm.jpg

[BlackZenkiS14]

Have you considered an S13.4 valve cover? :)

Actually, I would love one! But its expensive to do, more than its worth to me lol and I like my shiny green one ;)