Shimmy Gremlin!!

[Dream240]

Okay I have just given up all hope for fixing this problem.

I have a shimmy that comes and goes while driving, speeds 60-75.

Things I know are not causing the problem:

Tie rods - all brand new.
Alignment - been done twice, helped redude shimmy a bit but it's still very strong.
TC rods - new bushings no wear or damage
Rims balanced - done very recently

Things I think are causing it:
Bad tire wear - just front two.
Steering rack on it's way out. It's not leaking or anything though.

Now with the tires, I had some inside feathering that I didn't notice until it was too late, got an alignment to stop the wear but the damage is done. I just moved those tires to the back and the brand new good tires to the front, shimmy still exists but now it doesn't shake the whole car, just the steering wheel, and it's still at the same speeds.

Here's the kicker, when driving at say 75 on the freeway, straight ahead, then as the freeway banks either left or right, the shimmy slowly starts and by the time the cars straight again the shimmy's in full force. Now then I bank the car the other way, and voila!! the shimmy disappears and the steering feels solid like the day I bought the car!!
This leads me to think it's the rack, maybe there's a spot in there where there's play or the gears are coming loose or something. Also just a note, I recently replaced the Passenger Tie rods along with the L/C arm due to hitting a curb. The rims was a little bent but that rim was just moved to the rear. Also the shimmy existed well before that little incident. But maybe the front chassis cross member is bent? Resulting in some adverse effects on my front end? It's not noticeably bent, check with the naked eye, but it could still be damaged.

So anyone that can give me any confirmation on this I would appreciate it, I really think it's the rack and I need a new one.

[Yoshi]

how about steering rack bushings, sway bushings too!

[Dream240]

how about steering rack bushings, sway bushings too!

I thought about that, and no those are all still stock original parts. I noticed that the sway bushings are way worn and flat, cracked, poopy looking. That was going to be my next fix item. I was thinking about whiteline sway bars front and back. Are these good, worth the money or should I just put in a little more and go Cusco?

Will Cuscos make my car streetable? I've heard that they're really only intended for the track.

[psidriven]

how are your wheel bearings? when the bearings went out on my friends fd he would have a weird whine and slight shake that went away when he turned away ( or towards, can't remember which ) from the bad bearing.

[Rennen]

Have you flat spotted the tires recently? I have a similar shake and I am assuming its my tires, because even if they are balanced right, if they aren't truly circular, they will create an oscillation. The next thing after tires would be wheel bearings. I hope my shake isn't the wheel bearings.

-Matt

[Dream240]

Have you flat spotted the tires recently? I have a similar shake and I am assuming its my tires, because even if they are balanced right, if they aren't truly circular, they will create an oscillation. The next thing after tires would be wheel bearings. I hope my shake isn't the wheel bearings.

-Matt

Well, I know the tires were part of the problem, The bad tires (with the feathering) I just rotated to the back before starting this thread, and the one's on the front now are brand new, no tread wear issues. So maybe the wheel bearings are the problem? I just recently removed my dust sheilds for my front brake upgrade, and when I took the hubs off, I relubed the bearings, but maybe they're just old? I have 152,XXX miles on my car so that could be it. I'll check around for a price on some new ones, and if that's the problem I'll let you guys know.

[sykikchimp]

Does it hum? wheel bearings typically hum when they are going out.

I would check ALL my suspension bushings, and connections. Control arm bushing, ball joint, Upper mount, steering rack bushings..

[Dream240]

Does it hum? wheel bearings typically hum when they are going out.

I would check ALL my suspension bushings, and connections. Control arm bushing, ball joint, Upper mount, steering rack bushings..

Well, the noise I get from the wheels I'm sure is the tires on the road. The tires that are now on the back use to make an annoying whirring sound in the front, can't really hear it now. The one's on the front now are alot quieter. So no I'm sure the noises I hear are from the tires contacting the road.

Like I said before the sway bar bushings are really worn, LC arm & ball joints are good, upper mounts are new also, steering rack I have to check. I'll let you know.

[citizen]

I have pretty much the same problem, with a few more twists, i.e. creeking/popping and bad tracking mostly from my driver side wheel, and my steering is harder one way thanthe other. Ive replaced my rack made little diference, the steering rack bushings may help. To see if yours are bad have a friend turn the wheel back and forth while the car is on the ground. Look under the car at the rack, if it slides back and forth then your bushings are worn. You can replace the bushings with energy suspension z32 ones, contrary to what other people have posted you do not have to shave them down, they fit well enough. Im replacing lca bushings and strut mounts next week. Hopefully those will fix the problem.

[Dream240]

I have pretty much the same problem, with a few more twists, i.e. creeking/popping and bad tracking mostly from my driver side wheel, and my steering is harder one way thanthe other. Ive replaced my rack made little diference, the steering rack bushings may help. To see if yours are bad have a friend turn the wheel back and forth while the car is on the ground. Look under the car at the rack, if it slides back and forth then your bushings are worn. You can replace the bushings with energy suspension z32 ones, contrary to what other people have posted you do not have to shave them down, they fit well enough. Im replacing lca bushings and strut mounts next week. Hopefully those will fix the problem.

Yeah I'm gonna check the bushings today. Thanks guys for your input. I'll let you know what happens.

[orange-grey]

I'm leaning towards flatspots.

[Dream240]

I'm leaning towards flatspots.

Flat spots on brand new tires? Also I was driving this morning on the freeway and I tried out the whole turning one way thing. And the shimmy tends to grow as I bank the car to the left. It doesn't correct when straightening out but I don't really fell the shimmy when I bank right. Also major bumps will cause the shimmy to just develop out of nowwhere.

I'm actually leaning more towards the steering rack bushings. I haven't gotten to it yet, I'm just gonna go to Nissan order the bushings, when I get back fom vacation next week put them in, and see if it's gone. If it's not then no worries I'm sure they're old and worn anyways. Never hurts to have new parts.

Thanks guys for your input I'll keep you posted.

[citizen]

Just go with Energy Suspension bushings, oem are SOFT, and the ES bushings only cost 12 dollars!

[Dream240]

Just go with Energy Suspension bushings, oem are SOFT, and the ES bushings only cost 12 dollars!

:werd: Where can I get some from online?

Thanks

[Dream240]

Alright here's what I've come up with after much deliberation.

My front subframe is bent. There's no other explanation, also as I mentioned before, I hit a curb a while back and had to replace the passenger tie rods and LC arm to fix it. Well the shimmy wasn't really there before that. Sure I had a little shimmy but not like now and that was easily dealt with by an alignment. The guy that did the alignment said my cross member might be bent. So I'm going to New Mexico this week and there's 1 95' 240 that's sitting in the city junk yard. Damn shame too got hit on the driver's side door, I'm gonna check for the crossmember and pick it up if it's in good shape. It's kinda funny cause that car's been there for about 5 years and it's got almost everything on it!! Oh and it's an auto...:duh: So it doesn't help my tranny swap at all...Damn!

I'm also gonna get the entire front bumper section for 125, supports and all to fix my front end spacing from a previous fender bender.

I'll let you know if the cross member was the problem.

One more thing if anyone needs anything, I'll check it and let you know. I go out there once a month so put in any requests now!!

[Natty]

Yeah, I want to know if it's the subframe/crossmember. I think mine is bent, but I am leaning towards wheel bearings and bushings.

[citizen]

you can get theenergy suspension bushings at courtesyparts.com, but when i ordered ES stuff from them it took a few weeks to ship. So don't expect to get them in a hurry, also if you google to find more places that sell them. update for me, put on new shocks and tires today seems to have fixed shimmy, haven't really checked for tracking issues yet though.

[MikeDeuce]

Do you have aftermarket wheels? And if so, do you have hubcentric rings?

I have the same exact shimmy you talk about but the previous owner did not fit hubcentric rings to my car when they had aftermarket wheels put on... I've even had the shimmy go away completely after rotating my wheels (at least until the next time i removed them), so I'm wondering if it's just not 100% centered on my hubs.

I've heard mixed results, but I'm going to give it a try, $20 on rings beats more on a new rack.

[Rennen]

(at least until the next time i removed them)

Wait, my shimmy seems to happen the worst right after I put my street wheels back on after autocross. The wheels are stock so they are obviously hubcentric, but when I put them back on I just torque them down "hard". I don't torque them to specs or all of the lug nuts to the same torque..... This could cause them to be unbalanced. After driving for a few hundred miles, the shimmy becomes far less violent, and eventually goes away. Next weekend I will take a torque wrench with me and see if torquing to spec fixes my shimmy.

-Matt

[KiDyNomiTe]

Is there a bit of play in your steering when at a stand still? If so the steering rack bushing might be bad. Get the Direct steering collar/bushing from tougefactory, no play in my steering, and my wheel is a lot more stable at high speeds. Used to be a bit of a shake but nothing too bad, but its all gone now.

[MikeDeuce]

Hm, this is good, it seems as though we're all at least attacking the problem from different angles. I'll have to check out the collar you mentioned, although my shimmy makes it feel like my front wheels are going to fall off :ughd:

[sleep]

bent rim, or bad tires on the rear can cause a very violent shimmy in the car...

Its ok to put unbalanced wheels on the rear, but with tires or rims bad enough. You will definitely feel it.

I had some tires on my rear that had belts about to come through the inside of the tread.....i was scared to go above 50mph...felt like my wheels were going to fall off, or i was going to hop off the road......

And it wasnt only a feeling from the rear....the whole car was feeling it

[Dream240]

And it wasnt only a feeling from the rear....the whole car was feeling it

Yeah see that's how my shimmy was. See before I rotated the bad tires and dinged rim to the back, the car would shimmy so bad that the seats would shake, the shifter would vibrate and even my passengers could feel it.

Now that I've rotated the wheels only the steering wheel shimmies and a little in the pedals. I already ordered new steering bushings, and I'm going to the junk yard today to get the crossmember. As far as my hubcentric rings, I have them but, they are pretty worn and old looking. Also my 3mm spacers are cracked in various places and need to be replaced. I'm not sure if them being cracked could cause something. Maybe...? I'm gonna go get some new ones along with new rings too from the place I got the rims from.

And I know it's not my rims being badly bent, cause the last coupld times I've had a balance the guys have checked them for my and they spin pretty straight. I'll keep my results posted soon. Thanks alot guys for all the input. This is Zilvia at it's best....!! :)

[sciamop]

I had a shimmy btwn 55-65; it turned out that the hub was warped. Here's how I troubleshot it:

1. Jack up front end. Secure with jackstands.
2. Remove wheel.
3. Remove Caliper and Rotor
4. Spin the hub. It should be pretty obvious if there is warpage (there's a tool for testing runout, too). If it's really bad, you won't need to go beyond step 1.

Todd
90 Coupe

[Dream240]

I had a shimmy btwn 55-65; it turned out that the hub was warped. Here's how I troubleshot it:

1. Jack up front end. Secure with jackstands.
2. Remove wheel.
3. Remove Caliper and Rotor
4. Spin the hub. It should be pretty obvious if there is warpage (there's a tool for testing runout, too). If it's really bad, you won't need to go beyond step 1.

Todd
90 Coupe

Good tip, luckily when I recently did my front brake upgrade, I relubed the hub bearings and I also spun them around just for kicks, had no grabbing or anything just smooth spin all around. So I'm pretty sure my hubs are good. Also they don't make any noise at all.

I'm back in Cali and I did get the front cross member, damn thing was a bitch to package for the airplane ride home. It's pretty light though by itself. Cost me 100 bucks!! It's okay though, I've been wanting to replace it since I hit that curb, cause there's really no telling how much it's bent.

I also picked up new steering rack bushings and it's all going on this weekend. I'll let you guys know if it helps. Thanks alot guys.

[Dream240]

Well, I finally got the crossmember replaced and put the new steering rack bushings in. I took the car for a test drive right after the work and no more pulling!! Oh forgot to mention that the car was pulling before to the right. (bad right caster due to bent parts). Here's the funny part: I drive all the way back up here to the Bay area and got an alignment yesterday. Then the whole way home and this morning my cars pulling to the right again!!! ARRGGHH!! I'm lost. Oh yeah the shimmy is still there so it wasn't either of those two things. But the crossmember was bent, cause my toe went way in on the right side after we put the good crossmember piece on.

Here's my next step, replace the hub rings and spacers. I got a price for a new hub, spindle, and knuckle: 75 bucks from a junk yard. not too bad but I'd rather try the cheap route first. After talking with a few mechs I'm under the impression that replacing ALL of the parts on that right side will be necessary to make the car totally straight again. So the Hub, spindle, knuckle assembly will be next. Also I'm thinking about replacing the strut, and pillow mount. I remember the pillow mounting bracket had a bend on one of the studs from the impact. I made it work but I'm sure that not causing a shimmy. It could be why my caster is still off.

Here's my alignment readings from the front end yesterday:

Range (for both sides)
camber: -1.5 to 0.0
caster: 6.0 to 7.5
toe: 0.07 to 0.14
SAI: 12.9 to 14.4
Included angle: 11.4 to 14.4

Left
Camber: -1.0 to -0.8
Caster: 6.5 unchanged
Toe: from 0.10 to 0.13
SAI: 15.0 to 14.9 (out of spec)
Included angle 14.1 unchanged

Right
Camber: -1.7 to -0.8
Caster: 5.7 to 5.6 (out of spec)
Toe: from 0.10 to 0.13
SAI: from 14.6 to 13.7
Included angle: 13.0 to 12.9

So as you can see the right side is definitely still not right.
I don't know what SAI is, could someone educate me?

Anymore suggestions would be appreciated. Sorry this is so long.

[Dream240]

Oh yeah and just to let you guys know. The Range set of specs is the Factory settings for the s14. Not sure if it's different for the s13.

[sykikchimp]

not sure what SAI is, but having differenct camber, and caster specs from left to right will cause the car to pull.

When he said "Runout" he meant the actual wheel mating surface of the hub is not flat anymore. This would be a good thing to check since the hub face could have easily been bent from hitting a curb, and would definately cause a shimmy.

[Dream240]

not sure what SAI is, but having differenct camber, and caster specs from left to right will cause the car to pull.

When he said "Runout" he meant the actual wheel mating surface of the hub is not flat anymore. This would be a good thing to check since the hub face could have easily been bent from hitting a curb, and would definately cause a shimmy.

Yeah the hub face is my next obstacle. I'm gonna have to wait a little cause I just spent 80.00 on an alignment and 20 bucks on an exhaust leak repair. so my 240 funds are in limbo until next week. Thanks for the input sykik.

[heated heavy]

hmmm..im having the same shimmy problem as well on my s13. it didnt start happening until i replaced all my studs though. i get a thumping sound as if my rim is bent when driving but when i hit around 60-70 my whole car starts shaking violently. my mechanic says "there's no suspension mang" but im thinking its related to a warped hub or possibly bad bearings. im gonna start by replacing every bushing possible in the chassis!
shit is annoying as hell!!

[Dream240]

You know what I noticed is a good way to tell where the problem is? Jack the front end up and spin the tire as fast as you can by hand. Then get on the ground right in front of the tire and see if it wobbles. If it does then you've got a problem on that side. I did this a little while ago and that's how I know my problems from the right side where I hit the curb. And since everything but the hub has been replaced, that's my best bet. Bive it a try, hopefully BOTH tire don't wobble!!

Good luck. I'll post soon when I get the hub replaced.

[heated heavy]

ya, jacked up the front awhile ago and spun the suspected "problem wheel" and i could tell it's rubbing something or possibly the bearing is bad because i spun the other wheel and it spins alot better.