S14 KA in S13, crazy timing no start issue

[PoorMans180SX]

Let me give you some background first.

This S14 KA ran good in it's donor car. It was pulled out, I swapped over the S13 distributor, coolant temp sensors, and exhaust manifold so it would all swap in.

This car will not start unless the distributor is a tooth retarded and won't continue to run unless the distributor is fully advanced. I have probably pulled and re-inserted the distributor fifty times with everything lined up at TDC. It refuses to run. I have also tried advancing and retarding the crank pulley and/or the distributor in different ways, and nothing. It seems only a tooth retarded gets the car to run.

The TPS sensor is not plugged in.

When it does run, it's extremely retarded, the exhaust manifold gets smoking hot really quick.

Please tell me someone has a simple solution for this?

[rcdad123]

have you tried a different cap and rotor?

[PoorMans180SX]

No but this cap and rotor worked just fine in the old S13 engine, and the car will run, just not on time.

[rcdad123]

what is the actual ignition timing according to a timing light, when the car would run. also at what rpm?

[PoorMans180SX]

I have to get a timing light on it. The rpm varies greatly depending on the distributor position, but it runs at about 1500rpm if you want it to stay running.

[rcdad123]

long shot but worth a second look is spark plug wires position on the cap and also making sure it`s on compression stroke TDC when you install the dizzy?

[PoorMans180SX]

Yeah man, the wire order was triple checked and I always make sure the exhaust came lobe is facing the drivers side fender when I set it to TDC, so that should be the compression stroke.

[rcdad123]

have you tried running it with the TPS connected

[PoorMans180SX]

Nope, the S13 TPS is dead, I unplugged it a long time ago when it had the S13 engine in it and it ran just fine. I'd have to buy a new one and swap it for the S14 one that is on this manifold.

[PoorMans180SX]

Anyone else have any ideas?

[coupesallday!]

Same thing happened to me when I rebuild my ka on my coupe. My brother advanced the distributor like 2 or 3 teeth then it started and ran fine. Just idled a little higher but then I got it to 20 degrees somehow and it passed smog lol I hope that helps

[PoorMans180SX]

I'll give it a try thanks!

[PoorMans180SX]

Bump. Still haven't figured this bloody thing out.

[godrifttoday]

Could it be you have 2 of the same cams? Also stock timing on ka is at 20 on the crank which is the 4th mark on the crank, are you also sure cams are pointing on opposite direction when 1st piston at top dead center

[Chaluska]

your still a tooth off on your distributor timing..

double check your distributor.

i fought with that for an entire 48 hour weekend.. did a cam swap, and swore up and down everything was perfect.. took out the distributor, and spun it one more tooth, fired up perfectly..

should be aligned like this...

http://www.nicoclub.com/articles/images/timing-08.jpg

notice the center of the rotor point is pointing directly at the end of the 6 pin plug... that was a key for me. if it helps, mark the distributor with a white pen marker, and make sure that the middle of the rotor is directly aligned with the #1 cylinder on the cap.

[PoorMans180SX]

I have an S13 distributor and wiring harness. I have lined it up a hundred times. I can try more I guess.

[codyace]

Any updates? Curious to the issue. It certainly seems like a timing issue, makes me wonder if the S14 was setup properly or it too was off and no one knew any different.

I know it seems simple but you are installing the dizzy at the correct timing event (0 vs 20* and vice versa). For you to purposely install it a tooth off, (what's that, 4 or 5*) and then cranking the dizzy, it seems like you are just way off on the timing event.

[Arsenal240sx]

First set of cam lobes facing away from each other when setting at tdc?

[PoorMans180SX]

Any updates? Curious to the issue. It certainly seems like a timing issue, makes me wonder if the S14 was setup properly or it too was off and no one knew any different.

I know it seems simple but you are installing the dizzy at the correct timing event (0 vs 20* and vice versa). For you to purposely install it a tooth off, (what's that, 4 or 5*) and then cranking the dizzy, it seems like you are just way off on the timing event.

We are still struggling with it. I'm beginning to think I am either insane, or the crank pulley marks are not on, or something. This is a 100% Stock S14 engine, that the timing has never been messed with, so I know the chain itself is not off.

I managed to get a hold of a timing light, but when I brought it back to the shop, it stopped working. Go figure. I'll snag another one sometime this week and at least figure out what the actual timing is when it's running.

First set of cam lobes facing away from each other when setting at tdc?

Yessir, every time.

[240drew]

When you stick the shaft in "hehe" Make sure the rotor is offset it will rotate clockwise while going in and should end in the proper place when at TDC Pin 1 for sparkplug 1.


Edit: Also make sure your using the proper tick mark on the crank pulley.

[jholman05]

I've had this same problem and have swapped plenty of KA's in my time. I am willing to bet you're still one tooth off. Since you said you had to advance the distributor all the way to one end, pull it out slowly, keep turning pressure on the rotor until you have the distributor pulled out enough to move one tooth over. Make sure you get one tooth then reinsert. Like 240drew said as you push it in it will rotate clockwise. It may not look right but just put it back together anyhow and try starting it up, moving the distributor back and forth as you're cranking. You may flood the engine, if that happens pull the fuel injector clips and crank it for 10 seconds then replace.

I've been where you are, and it just didn't look right moving the distributor over a tooth. Best of luck.

[codyace]

We are still struggling with it. I'm beginning to think I am either insane, or the crank pulley marks are not on, or something. This is a 100% Stock S14 engine, that the timing has never been messed with, so I know the chain itself is not off.

I managed to get a hold of a timing light, but when I brought it back to the shop, it stopped working. Go figure. I'll snag another one sometime this week and at least figure out what the actual timing is when it's running.



Bugger on the timing light, I can say I've had that happen with other tools in my history...stinks!

It is perplexing to say the least...how strange would it be if the crank pulley was somehow off?


There isn't anything else though that I can think of other than you've got the gear aligned off a bit, as a single tooth off will undoubtedly make that manifold glow red.

[PoorMans180SX]

Hey, I forgot to post a solution to this. The crank marks were indeed off. I stuck a long 3/8th extension down number one spark plug hole, watched it get to the very top of the stroke, stuck the distributor in, and it fired up. Oddly enough, I've also had to advance the distributor most of the way to get the car to run right. Still haven't gotten a timing light on it :(

[codyace]

The only reason I even thought of that is that I've had instances on many cars where people bought cheap crank pullies that either had no marks, or had the timing mark backwards of what it should be. You end up racking your brain for hours only to get stumped by someone elses mistake.