SRT-4. Cool car, but what the hell!?

[Jeff240sx]

My friend just bought an '04 SRT-4. 230hp.
2.4L Inline 4 cylinder. 87.5mm bore and some stroke that's actually longer than a KA's. 101mm! 6000rpm redline, 230hp at 14-15psi.
On the '03, the stage 1 upgrade kit comes with injectors and ecu. $300 for 240hp. The '04 is $300 for the stage 1 upgrade kit, and only comes with the ecu for 240hp. It comes with the injectors stock, and makes 230hp. It also bumps redline up to 6200rpm. That's only a minor irritation..
'04 and Stage 1 kits come with 577cc/min injectors. 55# injectors! That's a shitload of fuel for 240hp. But then the stage 2 kit comes with ANOTHER set of injectors. Bumped up to 682cc injectors for 260hp/280tq. 65# injectors for that low power? It could be done on 370cc (35#) injectors. The redline also gets bumped to 6500rpm.
So basically.. why does Dodge put so large of injectors on this 2.4L stock? And for those who don't think that larger turbos can make more power on less boost.. take this 2.4L with a tiny turbo, 15psi is 230hp. A KA 2.4L, t3/4 turbo at 6psi is 230hp.
Anyway.. just ranting about injector sizes...
-Jeff

[AKADriver]

The Neon has a returnless fuel system, so the actual fuel flow through those large injectors may be less than you'd expect.

They do apparently run very rich under boost, though.

The result of the Stage 1 kit is more than 240hp, that's just all they advertise. The main purpose of Stage 1 is boost response, though. It gets rid of the high rpm boost taper and changes some other little things.

[mjjstang]

my views are that it is a nice car for what it is. but the people that go buy it are people that want to go fast but really dont know much about the actual engine and stuff, well at least the people I know. maybe your friend is different. so the people get the stage kits. they dont have to do it and its under warrenty. they dont really know whats goin on. but dodge just gives you some new parts so you can be like, yah man I got upgraded injectors tuned ecu and all that shit, yah man what can I say im a tuner. at least thats my experience with buyers of the srt-4

[old_s13]

who cares .. the car is a piece of crap with wheels

[DRFT]

hahaahahaha

[boostedhotness]

all i have to say is that it is still a neon. it will never be a hot rear wheel drive. low cost car.

[kazuo]

boohoo waaa waaa

Try driving a SRT4 and then come back here and tell me that it is a piece of junk.

Especially for the price, you can't really beat that when it comes to purchasing a new car...

[AKADriver]

who cares .. the car is a piece of crap with wheels

Bullshit.

The Neon platform is one of the BETTER engineered small cars. People see the cheesy interior plastic, look at the reliability records of models from 10 years ago, and deem it crap. Pure bullshit. Yeah, it's FF. So what, so are 99% of the cars on the road.

My standard 2400lb '95 Neon had all sorts of bits that other small cars have to go through swaps and conversions to have. 4 wheel disc with 10" rotors, 2.0L DOHC, tight gearing, fast-ratio steering (~2.5 turns lock to lock), 2.5" mandrel-bent exhaust STOCK, yadda yadda... Yeah, the 240SX has all that, too, but the 240SX cost about twice what my car did when they were new.

So in the SRT-4, they take this car, and give it a 2.4L that's built like a shit brickhouse... 1200hp on the stock crank, block, bedplate... yeah, it's been done.

My only gripe is that the suspension/brakes of the SRT-4 are a little weaksauce compared to the engine, but they wanted something to come in cheap for the typical street driver. It needs stiffer dampers, bigger rotors with 4-piston front calipers, and wider wheels to match the power. All that's fairly easy to do, though.

[nightwalker]

I took a look at the suspension on those neons... crap! Dodge cut corners everywhere. (That's really all I care about anyways)

...just an odd tidbit... why do you get power windows in the front, but not in the rear?

[matlock]

it would whoop my ass on a straight stretch, but I don't drag or that (no offense to any drag racers) but let me ask you this what fun is a FF Car on some windy roads or on the track :), Exactly so I will stick to my 240 haha. They can take their 240HP and I will take my 240SX muhahaha.

[AKADriver]

I took a look at the suspension on those neons... crap! Dodge cut corners everywhere. (That's really all I care about anyways)

...just an odd tidbit... why do you get power windows in the front, but not in the rear?

The suspension is better than most FWD cars, especially in the second gen. McPherson strut on all four corners is nothing special, but it's better than the torsion beam most FWD cars (Jetta, Corolla, etc.) use. The first gen suffers from a lack of travel, the second gen has an extra inch all around. It's no double-wishbone Honda Civic, but it's functional.

No Neon has ever had rear power windows. I don't know why. I'd rather have manual all the way around.

[KiDyNomiTe]

it would whoop my ass on a straight stretch, but I don't drag or that (no offense to any drag racers) but let me ask you this what fun is a FF Car on some windy roads or on the track :), Exactly so I will stick to my 240 haha. They can take their 240HP and I will take my 240SX muhahaha.
I have seen a lot of Neons doing well at AutoXs.

I still think the car is ugly as sin. And isn't it already 240hp at the wheels stock, and they just lid about the figures?

[old_s13]

Bullshit.

The Neon platform is one of the BETTER engineered small cars. People see the cheesy interior plastic, look at the reliability records of models from 10 years ago, and deem it crap. Pure bullshit. Yeah, it's FF. So what, so are 99% of the cars on the road.

My standard 2400lb '95 Neon had all sorts of bits that other small cars have to go through swaps and conversions to have. 4 wheel disc with 10" rotors, 2.0L DOHC, tight gearing, fast-ratio steering (~2.5 turns lock to lock), 2.5" mandrel-bent exhaust STOCK, yadda yadda... Yeah, the 240SX has all that, too, but the 240SX cost about twice what my car did when they were new.

So in the SRT-4, they take this car, and give it a 2.4L that's built like a shit brickhouse... 1200hp on the stock crank, block, bedplate... yeah, it's been done.

My only gripe is that the suspension/brakes of the SRT-4 are a little weaksauce compared to the engine, but they wanted something to come in cheap for the typical street driver. It needs stiffer dampers, bigger rotors with 4-piston front calipers, and wider wheels to match the power. All that's fairly easy to do, though.


dodge.....

neon.....

srt4? 230HP? 240HP? 300HP? 1200HP?

who cares -- the car is crap.

-----------------------------------------------------

On a more serious note, who wants to own a car that is shoddily slapped together? Lets just compare our oldest 1990 NISSAN S13 240SX which doesnt have airbag:

http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/NCAP/Cars/1048.html

to a 2003 Dodge NEON:
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/NCAP/Cars/2303.html

Wow, our old POS scores better than the new NEON in terms of safety.

Call me negative.. call me a hater.. but I just cant accept a car that was built with stupidity. Why am I saying this?

Simple.

The Dodge NEON SRT4 wasnt created for enthusiasts, it was created to attempt to compete and steal business away from OTHER manufacturers that already have loyal following. Which cars? Ah yes, the WRX and EVO.. two cars which actually have prestige and following. The SRT4 was developed with the SAME goal Ford had when they made the PROBE -- to steal business away from other companies by selling something less expensive.

Why buy a 240SX when you can buy a Probe?

Why buy a WRX or EVO when you can buy a NEON SRT-4?

Like I said...

who cares -- its a crap car

[AKADriver]

Mike, why are you being such an ignorant ass today? Lighten up. It's just a car, and a damn good one at that. Dodge Neon. Yeah. So what? Why does it matter whose badge is on the back? Open your eyes.

The SRT-4 was not created for enthusiasts? Then why did Dodge invite my friend, who had a 13-second Neon drag car, to tour the PVO engineering facility back in 2002 before it was released? The original Neon SRT concept car from 2000 was built to show off the aftermarket potential of the 2nd gen chassis to enthusiasts - and this was done before it was announced that the WRX would be coming here. The Dodge PVO guys that designed it are all car guys like us that just happened to get jobs with Mopar. Heritage - the Neon has 9 years of racing victories under its belt, it was campaigned as an SCCA club racer from DAY ONE. There's been a Neon ACR in the USA as long as there's been an Impreza WRX in Japan. There were Dodge turbo cars tearing up the streets ever since honeys was wearin' Sassoon. Open your eyes to them. They're out there.

Has the SRT-4 roped in a lot of import buyers? Yeah, it did, that's how it managed to get past the marketing guys. But it was originally created BY and FOR a group of serious domestic FWD performance car enthusiasts whose existence you simply choose to ignore. Neons.org has 14,833 members strong, and that's a SHITTY forum, hahaha.

[Jeff240sx]

it would whoop my ass on a straight stretch, but I don't drag or that (no offense to any drag racers) but let me ask you this what fun is a FF Car on some windy roads or on the track :), Exactly so I will stick to my 240 haha. They can take their 240HP and I will take my 240SX muhahaha.


Dunno. Quaife differential stock says alot about it's handling. And places it up with the Acura Integra Type-R and a few other great handling Quaife-diff FWD cars.
-Jeff

[brianglawson]

when a new neon comes out on a completely different chassis, that has some benz influence i might look at it, chrysler quality was shitty under chrysler but benz is bringing them out fast....but until then, its a neon, and i wouldnt think of owning it, but i will give it to it, it is a good BANG for the buck......but thats also the reason i wouldnt want it, hearing hte bang of a rod going through the block.....lol

[old_s13]

Neons.org has 14,833 members strong, and that's a SHITTY forum, hahaha.

Yeah well.. the 240SX community has a lot of "members" too -- that doesnt make a difference to me. I liked the 240SX community when we had LESS members and BETTER cars and SMARTER owners.

Nowadays, these car lists are filled with fuckin Takumi wanna-beez and drift-kings who slam their cars into curbs and feel proud fucking up their precious cars.

I really dont care.. I know that my car is getting TLC.. I know plenty of NISSAN enthusiasts who do the same. What I am against, are band wagoneering bastards who buy cars because they are new and trendy.

NEON huh? Great car. I think I am going to sell my S13 and move over to the in-crowd. You were right.. much better car and nice community. I'll subscribe to honda-tech too while I'm at it. :)

[AKADriver]

I'm not saying they're 14,000 cool guys. Most of them are total asses, actually. Like I said, SHITTY forum. But, they're there - domestic sport compact enthusiasts that want the SRT-4 because it's an SRT-4, not because it's like a knockoff WRX.

I'm driving the original wannabe ride now. I don't care. Like you said, I know my Honda is getting TLC. My Nissan, too, even though it's not in my hands anymore - a good friend bought it and is daily driving it now. Who cares about the hype? Drive what you like, and give credit where it's due.

There are two sides to seeing through the hype. Not every overhyped car is really shit. Not every car that's underground kewl is really all that good.

By the way...

<-- honda-tech member for 518 days :fawkd: I only read the road race/autocross forum. A bunch of other former/current Zilvia members there, too.

[Var]

it could handle better but it has 0 camber cause it's pushing a lotta power to the front wheels. plus it's built for people that cant afford lan evo's and stuff and mostly for people that want a good amount of power. I think chrysler is hella smart for building it. What else manufacturer is smart enough to build a car that appeals to the young majority AND be ahead of the aftermarket companies by releasing their own brand name performance parts that are still under warranty and smog legal. The best part about the car..it doesnt have a muffler which i think is pretty cool . It's so in the spirit of imports, but it's a domestic.

[ONYX S-13]

Personaly i can never see myself owning one...The styling is complete garbage..Just can never see myself driving one..Plus i've own 2 rwd cars and 1 fwd and i can say this..I've had more fun in the RWDs then the FWD's and that's what i like most about driving..The fun factor definetly has to be there...It's kinda like an outlet for me especially when I need to blow off some steam..FWD's just can't do that for me...The main thing that i like at the T4 is that it sounds super good...I can listen to that car all day.

[old_s13]

domestic sport compact enthusiasts that want the SRT-4 because it's an SRT-4, not because it's like a knockoff WRX.

I've read through a fair amount of message boards, from lowbuck 240SX boards.. to 240Z boards.. to NSX boards.. to Ferrari boards.. after a while, you start to get a feel for what type of people buy what type of car. When I read on Ford Probe/MX6 boards, its quite apparent that these people bought their cars for whatever personal reasons -- obviously, they didnt ALL say "sure Ide love an S13 but now I am getting a Probe," that is hardly the case.

If people get enjoyment out of driving the SRT4, great. As you can see, there are even GEO STORM enthusiast boards.. another car which I would add to my list of cars that are "crap cars" regardless of what poeple do with them, or do to them. The Dodge Neon is no exception, its still a very wack car that has no heritage and in my eyes, will always be.. crap. If someone can find enjoyment out of that car, great. If someone can kick a Ferrari's ass with an SRT4 and compete in autocross, Great! If the cars end up being very reliable and built SOLID AS A ROCK, THEN GREAT!

All I can say is that people ALWAYS appreciate cars that are old and taken care of. The chances of this car making it into the history books is slim. Hence one of the reasons the ECLIPSE isnt as appreciated as it once used to be. BUT, you'll always see people saying "hey nice 240Z!" or "hey nice S13" -- there's much more value in owning a car besides the specs it puts down on paper. For me, heritage is where its at. Owning a car made by a manufacturer with heritage. If you talk domestic, atleast talk OLD domestics that have history under their belts.

[Hawd]

Well put together death trap. Apparently from what I hear the neon's safety is crap and alot of people are dying in accidents as a result from the poor safety rating of the TURBO neon. I'm going by what I heard and I don't feel like searching for facts to back it up.

[AKADriver]

Well put together death trap. Apparently from what I hear the neon's safety is crap and alot of people are dying in accidents as a result from the poor safety rating of the TURBO neon. I'm going by what I heard and I don't feel like searching for facts to back it up.

Patently false.

Its safety ratings are mid-pack for compact sedans. In IIHS tests they remarked that body head and trunk protection was excellent, not much dummy movement, but it got less than perfect scores because the dashboard folded in towards the dummy's knee. You will not die from driving this car. I drove an older Neon for two years and I'm still here!

It's also got lots of active safety - good handling and braking to get you out of a crash.

Mike, most of the open-minded car guys I know respect and remember the Neon ACR, and it's 9 years old now. The SRT-4 will be remembered, if not by you.

[old_s13]

Mike, most of the open-minded car guys I know respect and remember the Neon ACR, and it's 9 years old now. The SRT-4 will be remembered, if not by you.

Wow.. very classic.. very beautiful.. so historic and SO prestigious! I cant wait to sell my car and get a NEON ACR. It will look so nice sitting to my NEON SRT-4. Everything from its wonderful interior, to its fantastic exterior.. even the tail lights and headlights -- they SCREAM "beauty."

NO. The answer is NO AKADRIVER. You need to understand when something sucks, it sucks. Sell it and buy a better car... :)

[AKADriver]

Except it doesn't suck. You need to understand that you're being nothing but closed-minded and stupid about this car.

[AAA240SX]

HEY! No pighting hur my prendz...We keep it str8t off da hizzle wit mah baybee mizzles!
Each person has their own passion for cars. For us on this forum: It's Nissans. For others its whatever. Some for example think both are str8t...

Also each car has it's advantages and each car has it's disadvantages.

The SRT-4 is an excellent platform for speed, yet it's not visually appealing. I'll stick with my Nissan.

[Bliss]

So your main reason for not liking it is because there's no heritage?? So I take it you're not into new things, inventions, etc...?? That makes no sense to me. You have to START somewhere, and I think Dodge did an awesome job. I think this could be the beginning of some seriously fast compacts that come fast from the factory, with more room from aftermarket. No one said you have to like it, but to totally dismiss it as a garbage car is, as AKADRIVER has stated numerous times, close-minded.

Now, I still think the Neon is ugly as sin, but the car itself is getting better, especially with 230HP stock. :D

[old_s13]

Basically it works like this:

anything that shows heritage, good taste, innovation, and dedication is great in my book.

Unfortunately, there's really not much "made in the America" that I care about. So, it doesnt matter if its a Dodge Viper or a Dodge Neon SRT-4.. they just dont do it for me.

Not saying that the Dodge Viper isnt a great car, I think its okay.. but I know there are other cars that are just better.. and have a better history.. and are made by companies that dont suck as much. And well, thats where I like to leave things.

If you're going to support companies, dont support ones that suck. If you are going to buy a car, dont buy ones that suck. The 240SX doesnt suck. NISSAN doesnt suck. Dodge, sucks. They make cars like the Dodge Dart. They make cars like the Dodge Aries. They make cars like the Dodge Neon. Then they make higher performance cars like the Dodge Neon SRT4. Great, its better.. it can compete. BUT, it still sucks.

- Mike

[Bliss]

ahhhh, much better explained. thanks for the incite.

[darithS]

They're pretty fast for drag racing, sucks for anything else.

[chokudoriS13]

Basically it works like this:

anything that shows heritage, good taste, innovation, and dedication is great in my book.

Unfortunately, there's really not much "made in the America" that I care about. So, it doesnt matter if its a Dodge Viper or a Dodge Neon SRT-4.. they just dont do it for me.

Not saying that the Dodge Viper isnt a great car, I think its okay.. but I know there are other cars that are just better.. and have a better history.. and are made by companies that dont suck as much. And well, thats where I like to leave things.

If you're going to support companies, dont support ones that suck. If you are going to buy a car, dont buy ones that suck. The 240SX doesnt suck. NISSAN doesnt suck. Dodge, sucks. They make cars like the Dodge Dart. They make cars like the Dodge Aries. They make cars like the Dodge Neon. Then they make higher performance cars like the Dodge Neon SRT4. Great, its better.. it can compete. BUT, it still sucks.

- Mike

I guess all this time I've been giving you much more credit than you deserve. I'm sorry... I guess I'll take it back now. Your replies are incredibly rice-boy-like and are a polar opposite of how any real automotive enthusiast would reply. You absolutely deny that a very capable and affordable car is any good because of the badge it wears. You refuse to accept the facts Ryan (AKA) is providing. Quit being a badge snob and actually read his posts before blindly replying... Maybe you'll learn something.


You're right, Dodge is crap! Piles of crap! Crush them all!

http://members.lycos.nl/dodge/mopar2.jpg
http://members.aol.com/ShlbyLancerPage/SL/SLmainpics.jpeg
http://www.xmission.com/~dempsey/shelby/glht_red.jpg
http://www.onysd.wednet.edu/~g98s57/cars/dodge/69superb.jpg

Nissans rule! Lets make every race car a Nissan... They're amazing. Praise them!

http://gate54.info/nissan-cedric-y34-1981.jpg
http://www.din.or.jp/~ymko/photo-in/sunny.jpg
http://www.peter-waugh.co.uk/nissan1.jpg

[chokudoriS13]

They're pretty fast for drag racing, sucks for anything else.


WHAT??!!?!?!?! Put down that Super Street mag!

http://home.twcny.rr.com/magiclink/neon/solo2/rit_2001/solo2_running.jpg
http://www.flr-scca.com/solo/00divisional/photos/mvc-004x2.jpg
http://www.empire1.net/racing/images/pic93.jpg
http://www.empire1.net/racing/images/car84a-1.jpg
http://www.rallycodriver.co.uk/prorally2002/krolikowski.jpg
http://www.supercars.net/servlets/PW/garagePics/EBoNix3000/64car0.jpg

[gsracer]

just a stupid thought....

so if we were all having this conversation say 15 years from now, and there is still a neon srt 4 that has slowly evovled along the way to be a little better than it is now, things would be different because of heritage.

I completely disagree, you must remember cars like the 240sx or z or skyline, or a corvette , or camaro , or mustang, didnt just appear from nowhere they all had a first.

Keep in mind that i HATE the NEON, i think its an econobox with a big turbo engine. It has a squishy brake pedal, vague shifter at best, it looks horridly ugly from almost any angle, BUT i respect it for what it is, an evolution in our market, a fast car offered to us, import enthuisiast, just like the evos and sti's (except no where nearly as good) also just as the camaros and chargers and the horspower wars of the 60's, they were built for the enthuisiast. The only difference in the neon, to the rest of us is that mopar went more to its heritage of straight line racing than drifting/autox most of us like.

i still hate it though, but there is a measure of respect in my hate

JUST A STUPID THOUGH

[old_s13]

its not about the badge it wears.. you can take off the badges and i'de still hate it -- its about the manufacturer that makes it. i dont like dodge.. and unless we're talking OLD domestics, there's really no point because I dont like anything NEW from the domestic mfg's. Most of the newer domestic cars absolutely SUCK compared to the OLD domestic cars -- this is SO ovbious, hence the reason SO many people respect old american muscle cars.. and well, where are the NEW Impala enthusiasts? If anything, the Mustang still has some tradition.. but personally I cant see myself owning a nice Mustang when there are MILLIONS of them on the road AND they sell bottom of the barrel 6-cylinder convertibles that come in yellow with white tops and are driven by HIGHSCHOOL GIRLS. Please.. get a sense of individuality and drive something that ISNT so damn excessively worn and torn.

I think you helped change my mind though with those pictures, I REALLY want a Dodge now. I think all my friends who have owned American cars didnt FULLY convince me until now when YOU posted those pics. My friend with the Dodge Omni Turbo? Ah yes.. sweet memories.. what an AMAZING car that was. To this day, I still recall ALL the problems that car had. But yes, it sure did go fast.. in a straight line... when of course, it ran.

My friends with Mitsubishi Eclipses.. great cars.. every one of them. They rock. Of course, WHEN THEY RUN.. amazing how there is ALWAYS something wrong with those cars.

Say what you want, but for me.. its NISSANs that get the constant whip and rarely give car problems in my book. Toyota too, one of my friends put his Supra through HELL and it was amazing how long that car lasted. Honda? Great company. BMW? I hate German but they SURE know how to build cars.. they can be excessively engineered but I wont talk too bad about them, they are still very solid cars.

VW/Audi = Crap
Dodge = Crap
Ford = Crap
Mercedes? YAWN.

Why cant people have preferences in things they buy? Since when does someone have to RESPECT Dodge? Fuck yeah I'm narrow minded, we all are in some shape or form. For me, its all about building quality cars while keeping history and heritage alive.

Saying that Dodge is a respectable company is like telling me Jessica Simpson is a great music artist -- and she can act too! whoopdeedoo! Lemme go buy Christina Aguilera and Brittany, support all the suckers who are trying hard to make something out of themselves! Why bother? There are better, more talented artists trying to make it who dont come with all the pop-pizazz-and egotistical attitude based on stupidity.

Dodge and Ford are great for one thing in my book -- they know how to mass produce cars that are daily driven by millions of government institutions who lease massive amounts of cars for their employees. People need cars? Ford and Dodge supply them. Enterprise Rentals rents out cars, DODGE NEON. Its cheap and its a rental. Just like MacDonalds.. you want to eat for 1 dollar? Come on in....

[DRFT]

yes dodge sucks, thus the chager that blew up in F&F ahha

[gsracer]

old_s13

i agree with you, dodge sucks new domestic cars suck and although well engineered, german cars suck. "I" respect the SRT-4 for what it is, a pretty fast engine in a shit wrapper, and no "I or you" may not like it but some people do, and thats ok, and its also ok to have a prefrence, shit i would never ever by a frigin dodge, unless it was a truck to pull my race car.

What my question really was though is how can i car have heritage if it just came out, when the 240sx , charger , skyline etc first came out there was no heritage for them, we have the luxury of existing now, when they have been around for years.

Granted for the past say 15 - 20 years dodge has not had that good of a reputation, is that the basis for your heritage argument or is it something else.

Not trying to contradict you or anything just enjoying a good discusion on this forum.

[Var]

The SRT-4 (forget about dodge) is a step in the RIGHT direction...Think about it this way.

We all want cars that cater to our needs, so in the past 5 years or so, there have been cars coming out that offer good performance in different areas for a good price. So the SRT-4 appeals to the drag racers. Ya it handles ok..but it has buttloads of power. It out accelerates the 350z and the Porsche Boxster S. for 20 grand, a lot of teenagers in the drag scene will jump on the opportunity to buy this car. Now this isn't for us. I agree. I wouldnt buy this car, but i agree with everything it stands for. No frills(has no power windows in the rear lol[that's lovely])
The only bells and whistles are turbo noises
Not that ugly IMO
It's a car built for a purpose.


I see this as a pioneer in a new style of cars. Inexpensive cars with high performace..sure maybe it has shitty interior, shitty looks..but who cares. The next step is to build a car for another demographic(correct usage?) Who will take the initiative to build a car that will meet our criteria

1-Japanese!!
2-Lightweight(2800 lbs or less)
3-Good balance
4- Front Engine RWD
5-250 or so horsepower preferrably turbo
6-Decent styling
7-Factory LSD
8-And to follow Dodge's footsteps..*affordable* aftermarket parts that are still under warranty.

[hookedup240]

IMO its not all about power, a car has to look good too. Which the srt-4 doesn't. Its ugly as hell and fwd. Have you ever seen these cars at the strip, they spin all the way through 2nd and into 3rd.

O well its faster than a Z and cheaper(not on a highway run though), but its still ugly, doesn't handle as good and doesn't have the CLASS the Z has, and has the build of a dodge, which by my experiences have shown me that it is crap.

I have driven a lot of cars having worked at a car auction place so i have a good idea of what kind of quality these cars have compared to others. And they suck.

Again its not all about speed and going fast in a straight line.

[Var]

you dont listen

[gsracer]

you dont listen

:werd:

i must have said at least three times in my endless ramblings that the srt4 is not made to handle, it was built to go as fast as possible in a str8t line, turning left or right are not its strong suits, stock anyway.

it still sucks.

[Var]

i'll quote myself to drill it into people's heads.


We all want cars that cater to our needs, so in the past 5 years or so, there have been cars coming out that offer good performance in different areas for a good price.So the SRT-4 appeals to the drag racers. Ya it handles ok..but it has buttloads of power. It out accelerates the 350z and the Porsche Boxster S. for 20 grand, a lot of teenagers in the drag scene will jump on the opportunity to buy this car. Now this isn't for us. I agree. I wouldnt buy this car, but i agree with everything it stands for. No frills(has no power windows in the rear lol[that's lovely])
The only bells and whistles are turbo noises
Not that ugly IMO
It's a car built for a purpose.


I see this as a pioneer in a new style of cars. Inexpensive cars with high performace..sure maybe it has shitty interior, shitty looks..but who cares. The next step is to build a car for another demographic(correct usage?) Who will take the initiative to build a car that will meet our criteria

[tsunami0ne]

:blah: There's no point in arguing. Nobody from either side will listen.

[Jeff240sx]

Any of you seen/ridden in a '04? I'm a really good driver, and punched it in the SRT-4, got a chirp going into 2nd. And the last 300rpm of 1st the tires broke loose. I've seen '03s going down the track spinning away.. but I really think that the addition of the torsen differential to the '04 (stock) helped with traction problems. I didn't go flying around corners like my s14, but it was still surefooted as long as I didn't give it gas around the corner.
Footnotes: Rember the torsen lsd that's stock in '04. Not as much tire spinning and handles nicely going 60 around 25mph corners.
-Jeff

[gsracer]

:blah: There's no point in arguing. Nobody from either side will listen.


were not arguing were discussing, :ghey:

[AKADriver]

:blah: There's no point in arguing. Nobody from either side will listen.

Well, that's just the thing.

I'll listen to anything. There are plenty of reasons to not like this car. It's not comfortable, the looks are totally love-it-or-hate-it, you can gripe all day about the feel of the controls or the factory paint color options or the way the turbine housing is integrated with the exhaust manifold. The wheels are narrow, the curb weight is high (400lb over a standard Neon), the wing cuts into rear visibility, if you order side airbags you get shitty base model Neon seats.

But no. People have to make up imagined faults like bad handling, flagrant lack of safety, lack of "heritage", it keeck my dog and now my dog needs operation, etc.

[Jeff240sx]

The wheels are narrow, the curb weight is high (400lb over a standard Neon), the wing cuts into rear visibility, if you order side airbags you get shitty base model Neon seats.

The wing has been griped about in every review I've read. But my, 5'9" and a friend 6'4" and the owner 6'0" all only have the top .5"-.75" of rear-viewing removed by the wing. Its not something I'd complain about. The curb weight is high.. but it's a larger motor, turbo stuffs in it, ect. It also has 18" wheels stock, and they're not narrow.. 225mm iirc. That's wider than stock 240sx tires.
I agree with imagined problems.. but I really think that quoting off magazine reviews without actually sitting in the car yourself is stupid. The above problems don't seem to make sense to me.
-Jeff

[sykikchimp]

it keeck my dog and now my dog needs operation, etc.

BAHAHAHAA.. Stupid Dog!

I hate the SRT-4 for the same reason I don't like all those old dodges you posted. Those hideous cars are all faster than my beautiful 240sx, and shouldn't be. I know my car is better in every way, except.. arrgg. WHY OH WHY DID NISSAN SCREW US WITH SUCH PATHETIC ENGINE OUTPUT?!?! I'm jealous of their power, and can only take solice in my cars sweet cornering serenity. I need a hug. :ughug:

I think I'm going to swap an SRT-4 engine into my 240. :wackit:

Ok.. enough Drama.

Ryan - aren't you tired of being the lone Neon supporter on every forum your on? :spank: I respect your passion. :bow:

[AKADriver]

Nah, I do it for fun. Remember, I SOLD my Neon. hahaha. Not that I wouldn't buy another, and I would have if this Civic didn't come up.

Jeff, the wheels are 17x6JJ with 205/50-17. That's narrow! 225s will fit in the wheelwells, though, but just barely. They should have flared the fenders, IMO.

[darithS]

WHAT??!!?!?!?! Put down that Super Street mag!

http://home.twcny.rr.com/magiclink/neon/solo2/rit_2001/solo2_running.jpg
http://www.flr-scca.com/solo/00divisional/photos/mvc-004x2.jpg
http://www.empire1.net/racing/images/pic93.jpg
http://www.empire1.net/racing/images/car84a-1.jpg
http://www.rallycodriver.co.uk/prorally2002/krolikowski.jpg
http://www.supercars.net/servlets/PW/garagePics/EBoNix3000/64car0.jpg
so.. im just hating lol

[old_s13]

aka> People have to make up imagined faults like bad handling, flagrant lack of safety, lack of "heritage", it keeck my dog and now my dog needs operation, etc.

I didnt make stuff up, i went to the NHTSA web site and simply said how an old_s13 scores BETTER in the crash ratings than a NEW_NEON, thats all. Its not made up, its truth.


gsracer> its also ok to have a prefrence, shit i would never ever by a frigin dodge, unless it was a truck to pull my race car.

Most definately, I dont think I'de ever buy a Japanese truck.. thats for sure. Americans know how to make one thing, and thats trucks for hauling shit.

[hookedup240]

aka> People have to make up imagined faults like bad handling, flagrant lack of safety, lack of "heritage", it keeck my dog and now my dog needs operation, etc.

I didnt make stuff up, i went to the NHTSA web site and simply said how an old_s13 scores BETTER in the crash ratings than a NEW_NEON, thats all. Its not made up, its truth.


gsracer> its also ok to have a prefrence, shit i would never ever by a frigin dodge, unless it was a truck to pull my race car.

Most definately, I dont think I'de ever buy a Japanese truck.. thats for sure. Americans know how to make one thing, and thats trucks for hauling shit.

Actually the titan is badass, i'd get that, in motor trend they rated the titan higher than the f series.

[AKADriver]

I didnt make stuff up, i went to the NHTSA web site and simply said how an old_s13 scores BETTER in the crash ratings than a NEW_NEON, thats all. Its not made up, its truth.

You didn't make that up, the guy that said "hey I heard people who drive Neons all crash and die, but I don't feel like looking up any facts" - HE was making stuff up.

Yeah, it does get mid-pack safety scores. Nothing new there. But there isn't a rusty ice pick sticking out of the steering wheel.

[240KAT]

I'm going to to have to back Mike up on this one. I don't see the big deal behind the SRT-4. Its a domestic 1.8T w/ a little more balls. It's a teenage girls car turned 'sports car'. The reason i put sports car in quotes is because its still a teenage girls car. Its still a Jetta/Neon, just with some guts. My dad had a 1.8T and then bought an E36. Hmm..'sports car' to Sports Car. Unless a given car goes through some serious re-doing, the 'performance model' won't ever get my acclaimation. I think that's what Mike is trying to say. Example: MSP=yawn...MSM=fun.

[hookedup240]

I'm going to to have to back Mike up on this one. I don't see the big deal behind the SRT-4. Its a domestic 1.8T w/ a little more balls. It's a teenage girls car turned 'sports car'. The reason i put sports car in quotes is because its still a teenage girls car. Its still a Jetta/Neon, just with some guts. My dad had a 1.8T and then bought an E36. Hmm..'sports car' to Sports Car. Unless a given car goes through some serious re-doing, the 'performance model' won't ever get my acclaimation. I think that's what Mike is trying to say. Example: MSP=yawn...MSM=fun.


I actually think its a 2.4L

[zero.counter]

I actually think its a 2.4L
It is . . .

[MakotoS13]

look, i believe that the only kinds of sports cars are RWD 2 doors (and RX8's). sr20powered S13's are king of the litter, in my opinion. i don't plan on EVER buying another FWD vehicle again (had a cougar) and will NEVER buy another FWD performance car... cause it's so limited. now, with that said:

i noticed a couple things reading this thread. first people ripped on it being a neon, writing it off as a basic run of the mill crap fest. then it was the handling. THEN the brakes. then the SAFETY? what the hell?

first of all, yeah, it's a dodge so don't expect quality control to be fantastic. hell, ever see a viper interior? secondly, the handling is well above par. anyone that knows anything about these cars knows that their chief asset (prior to the stock turbo days) was the handling. finally, the brakes. sport compact car tested them pretty well and deemed well suited for their purpose. four piston calipers on a sub 2700lb car with 240hp? the frickin maxima doesn't have that. hell, does the 350Z have 4 piston calipers?

yeah, they put a really great motor on a nimble chassis with decent brakes. they souped up a neon, get over it. put a SR20 i your 240 and be happy with a car that can run with the big boys in full street trim.

to borrow a tactic from choku:

yeah, domestic cars nowadays blow
http://corvetteforum.com/events/albums/albup33/PV_015819.jpg

even when heritage is maintained
http://www.stangnet.com/newpics/2005fordmustang.jpg

even if they are supercars
http://www.saleenunlimited.com/images/internalimg/s7/grey.jpg

especially when they outperform ferrari enzos...
http://www.fordvehicles.com/fordgt/images/photo_gallery/ph_gt_popup_9.jpg

[240KAT]

I actually think its a 2.4L

I was saying its like a 1.8T in the sense that its an econocar -turn- sports car..not that it was a 1.8L

[MakotoS13]

I was saying its like a 1.8T in the sense that its an econocar -turn- sports car..not that it was a 1.8L

it isn't nor will ever be a sports car no matter how fast it is. the audi TT is a 1.8L right? it's hardly an econobox.

[AKADriver]

haha, the Audi TT is VERY econobox. They put curvy body panels on a Golf/Jetta/GTI. Seriously. The base model Audi TT has the same 180hp 1.8t and tiptronic automatic driving the front wheels as every college girl's Jetta. The basic floorpan and suspension are the same. The VW Golf R32 selling for $30k has the same AWD system as all the TT Quattros up to the $45k 3.2 DSG - which also has the same VR6 engine as the R32.

Now, the Lotus Elise - that's a 1.8, naturally aspirated even (Toyota 2ZZ-GE) and that's definitely no economy car.

[240KAT]

There should be a smiley shaking his head..you guys missed what i was trying to say entirely. The displacement is not the subject matter. When i made a reference to the 1.8T, i was referring to the car, not saying the Neon was a 1.8L Turbo.

[WheelSpin18]

VW/Audi = Crap
Dodge = Crap
Ford = Crap
Mercedes? YAWN.

Rofl, ok old s13, time to put down that crack pipe.I was with you in thinking the srt-4 is a POS but now you just sound ignorant.You looooove your s13 soooo much yet you think a viper is "eh, ok".Yea RIIGGGGHHT,doesn't sound like a fanboy to me.I know for sure the viper does and will have more of a racing heritage than the s13 will ever have.Did the s13 win the 24 hours of le mans outright? Nope.Did nissan do it at all? Nope, only japanese manufaturer to do it is mazda.Now mercedes=yawn? LMFAO, yea mercedes has no heritage, right </sarcasm>.Ford=crap? Yup, by your judgement it has no heritage right? Yea,ok.Just because you are "pro-jdm tyteness" don't fuckin' hate on ford or w/e.They owned ferrari(who i bet u would say has no heritage and you would rather have an s13)for 4 straight years in the 60's at le mans(the most prestigious racing event.)And finally, vw/audi is crap too huh? Wow, so audi's GROUNDBREAKING RALLY QUATTRO add's no "heritage" to the company right? Ok how about the audi r8r that DOMINATED motorsports for about 5 years and still going strong.Won something like 4 le mans in a row and finished 1-2-3 like 2-3 times.


Just because its not nissan doesn't mean it sucks.If this is not what you believe i'm sorry but this is how you are coming across.Your "heritage" loving has no worth here, don't try to use that as a cover up because you obviously now nothing about it, thinking that ford,audi,merceds, etc suck.Have a nice day :bigok:

[TRUENOCOUPE]

A 2004 Viper is an ultimate out of the dealer car. It has been proven. Whoever says DODGE is crap. You are on fucking crack ie poseur rice boy.

Name one that is better out of the Dealer? Porsche? ahhahah Lambo? ahhaha Ferrari? ahhahah

Ignorant.

[old_s13]

You guys are completely open to your own opinions.. doesnt bother me the least.

All I know is that if I was to compare BMW to Mercedes, I would take a BMW any day.

All I know is that if I was in the market and had a choice between a Ferrari, Porsche or Lamborghini versus a DODGE viper or a CHEVY corvette, I wouldnt have to think twice.. I wouldnt buy something domestic, thats for sure.

If you guys just want performance, buy it. Its obvious what pleases you guys, you could be sitting behind the wheel of a rust-bucket with wheels and a phatass motor and you'de be happy.. great. That just doesnt cut it for me.

240SX or Ford Probe? Probe's were available turbo and had much more power, so yeah I guess the Probe is a great car.

Dodge Neon SRT-4 versus 350Z or WRX, yeah.. I'm REALLY going to consider the SRT-4.. great car for the money!

Like I said, if you want a "bargain" and dont care about details.. do your thang. Afterall, its YOUR money now isnt it.

[old_s13]

truenocoupe> A 2004 Viper is an ultimate out of the dealer car. It has been proven. Whoever says DODGE is crap. You are on fucking crack ie poseur rice boy.
Name one that is better out of the Dealer? Porsche? ahhahah Lambo? ahhaha Ferrari? ahhahah
Ignorant.

man dont even start with me, your ass is too young to even appreciate the free shit they give you in a cracker jack box.. let alone have the mental capacity to even compare a car.

Its not even about ripping on the viper, because I think its a good car.. when it works. amazing how i always hear about viper's having constant headaches and failures.. wow such a surprise! haha born in 1986 was it? jeeez...

[Var]

your ass is too young to even appreciate the free shit they give you in a cracker jack box.


:wtf:

_________

[sykikchimp]

Dodge simply has a differenct philosophy about building cars. If that philosophy doesn't mesh with yours, your not gonna like the cars they produce.

Cars are like women. Some have the goods, and the looks. Some don't have either. Your gonna hit what ever floats your boat. (or whatever you can affordat the time. lol) :hitit:

[ryan hagen]

it would whoop my ass on a straight stretch, but I don't drag or that (no offense to any drag racers) but let me ask you this what fun is a FF Car on some windy roads or on the track :), Exactly so I will stick to my 240 haha. They can take their 240HP and I will take my 240SX muhahaha.

"who cares .. the car is a piece of crap with wheels" olds13


yall need to get with it, if it aint nissan it sucks......j/k this srt4 doenst sound bad, altough i feel it to be ugly. i would personally not buy one, but vs. a stock 240 it seems to ahve alot going for it. especailly where i am there are no mountains and very good drieing roads that dont resulat in a fall into a deep ditch with trees.........ugly car, yes, fast car yes, good handleing, its seems pretty good, i think scc even made it the car of the year 2 years ago? i remember they wanted to revoke it due to the crossfire/dione(sp) comercial

[Burmonster]

Its not even about ripping on the viper, because I think its a good car.. when it works. amazing how i always hear about viper's having constant headaches and failures.. wow such a surprise! haha born in 1986 was it? jeeez...

Your 100% correct old_s13. I worked at Palmer Dodge(which is one of the top two Viper dealerships in the world) for 2 years in the Palmer Motorsports department which is basically the area of the dealership that handles the service, upgrades and sales of the Viper. Anyway, you are right when you say that the Viper has it problems, big problems. Cars throw harmonic balancers all the time, seen engines that burn oil (and I mean heavy) with under 5k on the car, fiberglass panels that are warped and splintered from the factory, wiring held to the body panels with electrical tape (I have even seen duct tape once) and countless other problems. Does the Viper have a strong engine, for the most part yes when they are new. I would NEVER buy one that had more then 60k on it. You are just asking for trouble at that point. However, the interior design and ride quality (I am not talking Caddy ride here, I know it is a sports car, but for a sport car that is to be driven on the street, its horrible) are simply piss poor to me. The old Dodge Stealth had a better design.

I would never buy a Viper. Would I take one if it was given to me? Of course, I would be stupid not too. But as soon as I got it, it would be up for sale. You can get something much nicer for that 80k. And just like old_s13 said, I personally will be looking at imports for that replacement car

[old_s13]

Dodge simply has a differenct philosophy about building cars. If that philosophy doesn't mesh with yours, your not gonna like the cars they produce.

Cars are like women. Some have the goods, and the looks. Some don't have either. Your gonna hit what ever floats your boat. (or whatever you can affordat the time. lol) :hitit:

i can respect that.. i think thats the nicest way to see things on the forum and on how to see people's opinions.. because its very much like a taste on women.

i dont like fake cars. i dont like fake titties. i dont like fake women. i just like realness. in my eyes, certain car mfg's have been doing it right from day one...

i like bmw -- they sell excellent sport sedans regardless of how over-engineered I think they are.

i dont like mercedes not because they are a bad company.. whatever, they sell damn good cars.. but fuck, they got too much history with the holocaust so i think some of you can understand one's reasoning for not wanting a mercedes. PLUS, their cars are just too wallowy for my tastes.. i need a REAL suspension.. and mercedes has always been soft.

as for domestics, i could care less if its a truck.. thats fine.. but when you're talking SMALL sportscars.. i think nissan and toyota is where its at.. they just make them as practical and tasteful as possible. its not about being JDM, truenocoupe (you cheap whore), its about making damn good cars. this is why i like subaru, honda, nissan, toyota.. and sometimes mazda.

i never once said the dodge viper was a junk car, i know it has balls behind it.. just like the z06 corvette.. two of the few american cars i appreciate. SRT4? no thanks, i'll pass. mustang cobra is also one of the others i am interested to learn more about.. but i wont comment until i get more exposure on it.

as for vw audi... work on them and you'll understand how crappy they are. i dont want to get into details, but i think i have put enough wrenching time into cars to be able to judge them. i may not be 100% right, because no one is.. but hey its my opinion and take it for what its worth. if you think i'm an idiot just write it off.. big deal. but there's obviously people on this forum who agree with me.. so suck it ez bitches. :)

[MakotoS13]

-the ford GT is just about the most hardcore domestic production car on the market. i'm pretty sure it out performs ferrari's top dog. that car is a freaking BEAST and it sure as hell whips the hell out of the viper.
-you guys are comparing the SRT-4 to cars that cost 5-10K more than it. that fact that that's necessary should show that the sucker is some fierce competition.
-the audi TT is not an econobox (econoboxes don't cost 30+K, have twin turbos, and AWD) displacement is irrelevant.

[Burmonster]

:blah:
:blah:
:blah:
-the audi TT is not an econobox (econoboxes don't cost 30+K, have twin turbos, and AWD) displacement is irrelevant.

since when has the audi TT been twin turbo. Last time I checked it was 225hp out of the 1.8 single turbo and 250hp out of the new 3.2 v6. 225hp + 3274lbs + $30,000 plus pricetag = yawn in my book

and the Ford GT being the most hardcore domestic car?? I think you are forgeting a few.

http://www.panozauto.com/images/2_101c.jpg
http://www.panozauto.com/esperante/hi-res/A008.jpg
http://www.carrollshelby.com/images/photos/Series01.jpg

[240KAT]

Shelby Series 1 = sex on wheels
Ive never been a fan of the Viper..there's something about them that I don't find appealing. Perhaps its that I've spent my time under the hood of them. Dodge has always been known to cut corners in production. To keep the tag down, they do the electrical tape manuever, as well as cheap interiors, poorly designed suspension, etc. Plus, I dont really like how they look.
And the Audi TT is not twin turbo..not with a 30k price tag. It's a 'sporty' Jetta...with 4 circles instead of one.

[TRUENOCOUPE]

man dont even start with me, your ass is too young to even appreciate the free shit they give you in a cracker jack box.. let alone have the mental capacity to even compare a car.

Its not even about ripping on the viper, because I think its a good car.. when it works. amazing how i always hear about viper's having constant headaches and failures.. wow such a surprise! haha born in 1986 was it? jeeez...

What year were you born? I would Imagine you are way too old be around forums. "Old_Man".

1986? hahahaahahhahhah hahahhahahhah oh wait. I LOLed.

[MakotoS13]

well crap, what the hell does the TT stand for then?

225hp + 3274lbs + $30,000 plus pricetag = yawn in my book

yeah, i guess if that's all you were concerned with it wouldn't seem very interesting. uh huh... tons of sense...

oh yeah, that ford GT thing? i meant that. seriously... that car owns.

[chokudoriS13]

All I know is that if I was in the market and had a choice between a Ferrari, Porsche or Lamborghini versus a DODGE viper or a CHEVY corvette, I wouldnt have to think twice.. I wouldnt buy something domestic, thats for sure.


The point is bang-for-the-buck. For the price of a 360, you can have 4 Corvettes or 2.5 Vipers. Price-wise, the imports and domestics are not in the same league.


Dodge Neon SRT-4 versus 350Z or WRX, yeah.. I'm REALLY going to consider the SRT-4.. great car for the money!


If you're getting a Track Z, you could have two SRT-4's. A WRX costs 25% more. If you're going to compare cars by prices, at least start comparing cars that are on the same price level. Now, find me something for $19k that matches or beats the SRT-4 in the US.

[Var]

The BEST bang for your buck is a 2-3 year old Z06 corvette IMO. that car is THE FUCKIN SICKEST ...and way better than a Viper IMO. Old_s13 please tell me you understand that car is the shit even though it's a domestic. I'd take it over any Skyline except for the R34 GTR.

[old_s13]

i think the corvette (z06 or not) is a good car -- i cannot say anything negative about it because i dont know enough about it to comment. sure, it MAY be domestic which very much already has a bad start.. but I wont hold anything against it because i know its got tradition and a good following. i will say the interiors are kinda ratty, but thats not a big deal.. nothing a bit of money cant fix. i like the corvette.. i'de most likely take one over a viper. but then again, i wouldnt throw the viper out either.. both are good cars.. i just like the corvette more, thats all. (of course z06 is obviously the creme of the crop).

i would most definately take a BASE MODEL Z33 350Z over a dodge SRT-4 any day. I would take a stock S13 over an SRT4. I would take a Miata over an SRT4, ANY DAY. It comes down to what you guys value as drivers. If FWD + POWER is enough to satisfy you suckers, then more power to you all. For me, I need much more than that. A miata would please me MUCH more than a Neon. I would even take a 1990 Miata and spend money on fixing that up.. and I would easily destroy a Neon. There's just NOTHING appealing about the Neon to me.

As for Skylines, I think the R32 is at the top of my list in terms of favorites.. I dont like the newer models as much.

[240KAT]

As for Skylines, I think the R32 is at the top of my list in terms of favorites.. I dont like the newer models as much.
The r32's are pure hotness.

[AKADriver]

-the audi TT is not an econobox (econoboxes don't cost 30+K, have twin turbos, and AWD) displacement is irrelevant.

Dude. DUDE.

Yeah, like someone else said, it's a single turbo. Three engine options:
4cyl 1.8 turbo 180hp - EXACT same powerplant as GTI, Jetta GLS
4cyl 1.8 turbo 225hp - same engine again with a bigger K04 turbo
6cyl 3.2 NA 250hp - EXACT same powerplant as Golf R32

The chassis, suspension, AWD system, brakes, all EXACTLY the same as the Golf R32. The base model TT is still front wheel drive with the 180hp engine and an automatic, all straight from the Jetta GLS. IT IS A GOLF/JETTA CHASSIS. Econobox roots to the core. They gave it the best engines, best suspensions, best brakes available, but it's still the same platform.

And now you see why making arbitrary distinctions between "sports car" and "economy car" is stupid.

[JagdStealth]

i like bmw -- they sell excellent sport sedans regardless of how over-engineered I think they are.

i dont like mercedes not because they are a bad company.. whatever, they sell damn good cars.. but fuck, they got too much history with the holocaust so i think some of you can understand one's reasoning for not wanting a mercedes

BMW is a German company too...I'm confused by what you're saying. BMW, Mercedes, and Porsche all played very alrge parts in the manufacturing of products for the Nazi war machine.

i am interested to learn more about.. but i wont comment until i get more exposure on it.

Just beacue you don't like FWD and power (I don't either), that doesn't mean it's a bad car. I suppose ignorance is bliss though, I can agree with that!

240SX over here was nothing more than competition for the Integra/prelude/Celica market in the 80s and early 90s. I'd put money on SRT4 vs. a stock 240SX any year, even on the skid pad. We already know that Neon ACRs kill most cars in class in AutoX, including the stock 240SX.

[JagdStealth]

The old Dodge Stealth had a better design.

That's because it was designed, manufactured, and built by Mitsubishi in Nagoya, Japan.

Dodge contributed a efw man hours to using different body lines than the 3000GT, although all body panels are pretty much interchangable.

[Hawd]

You didn't make that up, the guy that said "hey I heard people who drive Neons all crash and die, but I don't feel like looking up any facts" - HE was making stuff up.

Yeah, it does get mid-pack safety scores. Nothing new there. But there isn't a rusty ice pick sticking out of the steering wheel.

Iwasn't making stuff up you fucking moron I was simply stating a rumor that I've been hearing alot lately.

Maybe alot of people are dying in turbo neons because of the market it's attracting. Young males with lead foots and no driving experience whatsoever.

[MakotoS13]

And now you see why making arbitrary distinctions between "sports car" and "economy car" is stupid.

by the way, i already stated that i was obviously wrong about claiming it a Twin Turbo. anyone care to explain why its labeled TT instead of beating dead horses?

a sports car in my eyes needs to have:

plenty of power potential and rear wheels that power the car. it stops being an econobox when the price reaches 30+, to me. if you want to try to explain how 30 grand for a car with tons of extra stuff over the base model could possibly be economical then go right ahead but don't expect many people to follow that kind of logic.

just like how combinations of things make sports cars the same applies to econoboxes. take a bmw. even the suckballs 318's aren't econoboxes simply for their horrificly (real word?) high price tag.

dissecting colloquial terms is a bit silly so back to the thread:

there's a black SRT-4 at the dodge place next to our ford dealership and it looks pretty mean. i don't see how anyone could possibly say that they look like crap. they look better than round headlight base WRX's IMO. the stance, rims, front end, seats, and front mount intercooler make the sucker look totally business-like.

Iwasn't making stuff up you fucking moron I was simply stating a rumor that I've been hearing alot lately.

yes, you were making stuff up. i've driven a neon before and didn't crash and die, thus, you made stuff up. yeah, you were exagerating but they are supposed to have pretty good safety ratings (it is an economy car ya know).

[Burmonster]

That's because it was designed, manufactured, and built by Mitsubishi in Nagoya, Japan.

Dodge contributed a efw man hours to using different body lines than the 3000GT, although all body panels are pretty much interchangable.

Congrats, you got the point I was trying to get across. BRILLANT!!!

[hookedup240]

there's a black SRT-4 at the dodge place next to our ford dealership and it looks pretty mean. i don't see how anyone could possibly say that they look like crap. they look better than round headlight base WRX's IMO. the stance, rims, front end, seats, and front mount intercooler make the sucker look totally business-like.


They do look like shit. They may look better than WRX's because they are shit ugly too, it looks like a shoe box with a wing and stupid ass headlights.

Although they are fast.

[old_s13]

plenty of power potential and rear wheels that power the car. it stops being an econobox when the price reaches 30+, to me. if you want to try to explain how 30 grand for a car with tons of extra stuff over the base model could possibly be economical then go right ahead but don't expect many people to follow that kind of logic.

BS.. a Miata is a sportscar.. pricetag has nothing to do with it. a 240Z when it was released was a sportscar, price means nothing.

[Bliss]

240sx a sports car? puh-leeze. every car thats RWD isn't a sports car. it may be a SPORTY car, but not even close to a "sports" car.

[JagdStealth]

240sx a sports car? puh-leeze. every car thats RWD isn't a sports car. it may be a SPORTY car, but not even close to a "sports" car.

AMEN......

[240KAT]

240sx a sports car? puh-leeze. every car thats RWD isn't a sports car. it may be a SPORTY car, but not even close to a "sports" car.

My insurance plan says otherwise.

[JaeTea]

I guess no one got the memo...

http://files.lividandgifted.com/users/Full_Clip/srtwrx2.gif

[ONYX S-13]

I'd put money on SRT4 vs. a stock 240SX any year, even on the skid pad. We already know that Neon ACRs kill most cars in class in AutoX, including the stock 240SX.Yeah but who keeps their 240 stock if they are into competition racing (Drag,Road,AutoX,Etc)...After just minor suspension mods the 240 will dominate over the T4..

[old_s13]

240sx a sports car? puh-leeze. every car thats RWD isn't a sports car. it may be a SPORTY car, but not even close to a "sports" car.

well.. thats why people who think like you dont appreciate cars like the 240sx and miata.. because they think its about power and price, huh?

last i checked, i look at a sports-car based on its design, its chassis, its upgradeability, and even its STOCK characteristics.

both the miata, 240SX, and 240Z are and have been appreciated not because they are excessively powerful OR expensive, but because they are good cars with good chassis, that are capable of performing even in stock trim.

jeez.. its silly to say that just ANY RWD car is a sportscar, because thats hardly the case. How many RWD exist that suck? long before FWD was common, there were PLENTY of sucky RWD cars.

[MakotoS13]

BS.. a Miata is a sportscar.. pricetag has nothing to do with it. a 240Z when it was released was a sportscar, price means nothing.

hey einstein, who's callin what a sports car? i said that those stats put it above econobox status by default, not that it automatically made it a sports car. BMW 318's cost around 30K and they sure as hell aren't sports cars.

jeez.. its silly to say that just ANY RWD car is a sportscar, because thats hardly the case.

wow, then it sure is a good thing i didn't say that in any way at all. my statement was about what usually disqualified a car as being an econobox.

i will always believe that there is and never will be any such thing as a FWD sports car BUT RWD doesn't automatically qualify it as having that status. also, just because a car isn't an econobox doesn't make it a sports car:

trucks
sport trucks
sport sedans
roadsters
coupes
hatchbacks
convertables

see? lots of variation in there, hotshot. not all VW's are econoboxes. what about that W12 VW that's out (or comin out)? that suckers pretty anti-economied out the yin-yang.

paying attention doesn't cost anything and this converstation isn't about quantum theory. i don't think it's too much to ask that you read what i write properly and try to keep up.

p.s. the miata costs about the same as a base mustang GT which is a sports car.

[sykikchimp]

The S13 240sx was a "sports car". The S14 240sx was a "sporty" car.

The difference is in the personality of the car. S13's were built with enthusiests in mind. The s14 was built with secretaries in mind.

I'm not sure how anyone could drive an s13 and not call it a sports car.

[AKADriver]

It has a rear seat. Useless as it may be, that disqualifies it immediately by any real definition.

Also, I don't know if you remember what your S13 was like stock, but mine had the softest suspension of any car I've owned.

[aznpoopy]

The s14 was built with secretaries in mind.

goddamnit, i'm a secretary??? no! no wonder my girlfriend likes my car so much!!! :wtc: hm actually i owned the car for a month thinking something wasn't right about it. for the longest time i thought i bought a s13 coupe. :duh:

anyway everyone's definition of sports car is different. who cares? drive what you like. btw my s14 is classified as 'compact' under my insurance company, so sykik might be on to something here.

[MakotoS13]

who cares? drive what you like.

that's probably the best thing anyone's said so far :werd:

[old_s13]

who cares what any of you idiots have to say..

i am the best
i make the most sense on this forum
and.. i write the funniest shit to date

and... i have a cold and my nose hasnt stopped running for the past 8 hours. god i hate life right now. oh well, i still hate you guys.. cold or no cold.. rest assured, you guys always make me feel sick.

;)

[Bliss]

Uh oh...with Old S13 out, who will rip into the newbs????

Oh wait, i forgot..theres definately NOT a lack of that around here. :D

I wouldn't say rear-seat disqualifies something from sports car status. M3 anyone? what about an RX-8? (there bleh, but they SHOULD fit in this category) M5 too.

Who said all I care about is price and power? How about power to weight ratio. 140 hp from a KA24(D)E/weight of 240sx definately doesnt equal sports car status. Sorry. If all I cared about was power and price, I'd drive a f-body or mustang.

[chokudoriS13]

The difference is in the personality of the car. S13's were built with enthusiests in mind. The s14 was built with secretaries in mind.



You're confused. The difference was in the marketing.

[AKADriver]

I wouldn't say rear-seat disqualifies something from sports car status. M3 anyone? what about an RX-8? (there bleh, but they SHOULD fit in this category) M5 too.

Those are all sports sedans. Yes, 2 door cars can be sedans. The Skyline GT-R is a sports sedan, too.

These are semi-official definitions used by the motoring press. They consider a sports car to be a 1- or 2- seater ONLY, with very few exceptions (like, say, the 3-seater McLaren F1). More seats are excess weight and size, not conducive to making a car more fun to drive.

[old_s13]

They consider a sports car to be a 1- or 2- seater ONLY, with very few exceptions (like, say, the 3-seater McLaren F1). More seats are excess weight and size, not conducive to making a car more fun to drive.

Yeah.. if I had a McLaren F1 I would be very pissed off.. who can have fun and drive a car like that with 2 bitches in the back.. I would have to sell it and buy an SRT4 or a Viper. :)

- Asshole

[sykikchimp]

BAH.. well.. my cars a friggin sports car now damnit!

[MakotoS13]

They consider a sports car to be a 1- or 2- seater ONLY, with very few exceptions

yeah, that extra 10-40 lbs has to seriously detract from the driveability. i mean, the skyline obviously suffers from this horribly. yeah, and we all know the RX-8 has the fattest arse of all.

/sarcasm

B/S

[sykikchimp]

"sports car" - An automobile equipped for racing, especially an aerodynamically shaped one-passenger or two-passenger vehicle having a low center of gravity and steering and suspension designed for precise control at high speeds. (dictionary.com)

[Var]

Well my s13 has a drag coefficient of .30, mine only has 2 seats, and has a low center of gravity, and has precise control at high speeds. It has a roll cage so it's also equipped for racing. I'll sleep comfortably tonight knowing i drive a sports car.

[old_s13]

did i mention the srt4 = crap car?

thanks

be quiet and kill this thread, once and for all.

[sr20det240pa]

crap cars, run hard yes, but crap every person i knew to have one, new old, had it break, saw one this weekend get smoked in a race, and only ran 13.9 at the track, thats not bad, but how reliable is that car...but hey if u got the money to blow, who cares....and yes to get a cheap price these days, u really think its as reliable as a STI? Lancer?..doubt it, cutting corners = price cut ....they just marketed the engine and boost and power so that no one would look into anything else. Just speeed...duhh

[AKADriver]

crap cars, run hard yes, but crap every person i knew to have one, new old, had it break, saw one this weekend get smoked in a race, and only ran 13.9 at the track, thats not bad, but how reliable is that car...but hey if u got the money to blow, who cares....and yes to get a cheap price these days, u really think its as reliable as a STI? Lancer?..doubt it, cutting corners = price cut ....they just marketed the engine and boost and power so that no one would look into anything else. Just speeed...duhh

Whoa, whoa, you mean, people have had to take cars in for repairs? I mean, wow, I've never had to repair a car before. A complex electrical and mechanical system running in a multitude of environmental conditions and frequent heat cycles should never have problems!

Right.

Yeah, my '95 Neon needed a couple repairs. So did my 240SX. So did my VW GTI. My 200SX needed a LOT, but it was old. My Mazda and Honda both had repair work done before I bought them. The most statistically reliable cars - Lexus - still average about 120 problems per 100 cars within the first 5 years of ownership. So saying "oh yeah they all break" means nothing, ALL CARS BREAK.

Speaking of reliability statistics, Subaru is mid-pack and Mitsubishi is near the bottom. Chrysler and Dodge fall between them.

Cutting corners means it's not luxurious, it's front wheel drive, the interior plastics are hard and shiny.

Driving dynamics are pretty much my only deciding factor between cars, so why should I look at anything else?

[Burmonster]

The "cracked" connecting rods just scare me. They work great on drag cars and road cars where the engine is pretty much rebuilt after everyrace, but on a car to used as a daily driver? No thank you.

[MakotoS13]

seriously... this thread is dead... bury it.

[millworkman]

dont kill it, i like listening to people fight back and forth about their own prefrences, its fun. 240Z=sex

[AKADriver]

dont kill it, i like listening to people fight back and forth about their own prefrences, its fun. 240Z=sex

But that's not what's going on at all. The fight is between people saying "this car sucks and anyone who likes it is a sucky retard who sucks" and me trying to open their eyes to possibilities outside Japan. It's not their preference versus mine, it's closed versus open minds.

Cracked rods are common in production performance cars these days. The GM LT1, LT4, LS1, LS6 engines all use them.

[old_s13]

this car sucks and anyone who likes it is a sucky retard who sucks

:)

[Var]

And the fat lady has spoken. Close this thread

[Burmonster]

Cracked rods are common in production performance cars these days. The GM LT1, LT4, LS1, LS6 engines all use them.

Did not know that. Wonder if that has anything to do with those engines seeming to lose "umpfh" when they hit about 70k miles.

[MakotoS13]

Did not know that. Wonder if that has anything to do with those engines seeming to lose "umpfh" when they hit about 70k miles.

perhaps some, but i've never heard of it. the vette is one of the most dependable sports cars around and the f-body shares the same engines/powertrains (minus the LS6 and LT4). there are plenty of 70K+ C5's C4's, and F-bodies still tearin up exotic arse (:

[Ghettokracker71]

perhaps some, but i've never heard of it. the vette is one of the most dependable sports cars around and the f-body shares the same engines/powertrains (minus the LS6 and LT4). there are plenty of 70K+ C5's C4's, and F-bodies still tearin up exotic arse (:

Yeah,I've ridden/been around plenty of them and never heard that,either? Hmm.

[sykikchimp]

Isn't a "Cracked" rod one that is forged in a single peice, then the bottom is broken so that the two peices fit perfectly together when they attach them to the crank?

[AKADriver]

Yeah, exactly. Instead of forging the rod and the cap separately and machining them to fit together, they forge them as one piece, machine them, then break the cap off, making for a perfect mating surface and a perfectly round big end.

I can't think of any disadvantages off-hand, though I wonder how the rod bearings stay in place?

[Var]

Woah. that's some interesting information. Never heard of it before

[Burmonster]

perhaps some, but i've never heard of it. the vette is one of the most dependable sports cars around and the f-body shares the same engines/powertrains (minus the LS6 and LT4). there are plenty of 70K+ C5's C4's, and F-bodies still tearin up exotic arse (:

every C4 and C5 that I have been around seems to just lose their power at about the 70k mark. My uncle is the fonder and chair of the Corvette Enthusist Club of Georgia and I origianlly heard of the problem from him. I have been around quiet a few of the higher milage C5's that just dont perform as good at all once they get up in the miles. I personally feel the the GM engineers are just trying to pull to much out of the 5.7L and the engine is just simply tired by the time it is "higher" milage.

[MakotoS13]

every C4 and C5 that I have been around seems to just lose their power at about the 70k mark. My uncle is the fonder and chair of the Corvette Enthusist Club of Georgia and I origianlly heard of the problem from him. I have been around quiet a few of the higher milage C5's that just dont perform as good at all once they get up in the miles. I personally feel the the GM engineers are just trying to pull to much out of the 5.7L and the engine is just simply tired by the time it is "higher" milage.

okay, so what you're heard is counter to what i've heard. man, this seems to be a standoff. i tell ya what, go to the corvette forums (http://forums.corvetteforum.com) and ask them if their cars are losing their punch near the big 70K :)

p.s. dear thread, DIE!