Sr20det vs F20c what are your opinions?

[TougeSR20Kid]

So to begin sorry if this is redundant or has been covered before. I tried to search but came up with no results.

So for the past few car meets there has been an argument taking place over which is the better motor. Personally I feel like its comparing apples to oranges for a few different reasons. But there seems to be a general consensus up here among the Honda fanboys that the f20 is a superior motor cus you can boost it stock and make more power. I dunno I'm not trying to go into it rather trying to get other opinions.

So what are your thoughts? I'm looking for more of valid reasoning based on specs and what not rather than just shit slingin about honda

Things I keep in mind are price differences and the fact that sr20det is boosted from the factory

[Rafa-Z]

honda has vtek so its better

[Cease_Super_Hicas]

honda has vtek so its better

The s15 engine has the Nissan version of vtec "VTC"
And it's turbo from factory but cost more than a s13 red top

[Supergoji]

wrong vtc is not nissans version of vtec
neo vvl is
it comes from the fwd sr20ve motor

[ashtonroche]

There is no question that the F20c motor is better than the SR. Sorry. As much as a fanboy Nissan guy as I am, the F20 is far more advanced than the SR. Better oil pump, better cam options, Rediculously strong internals stock. If you havent seen the Real Street Performance S2K that had their stock bottom end F20 up in the 700+ whp range for almost 2 seasons of racing before it finally lifted the head and then they built it. The SR wont make that on stock internals and for that long.

However, I will say this being I have done a fully built F20 swap into an AE86 is that the F20 is a very very finiky motor that has its issues. Valvetrain issues like a mofo. Even RSP had issues with theirs and luckily never destroyed a motor because of it. But my buddy had nothing but issues with his F20, one thing after another with the head and eventually the weak 2 piece valve broke and destroyed the piston. Put another head on and had issues with the center cam drive gear ovaling out the head and making extensive valvetrain noise. Also issues with the rocker arms making noise due to the vtec pins locking up on him.

Ive done many SR swaps and every SR swap Ive done is still running to this day with no issues ever other than very minor things but never with the motor itself. My buddies S13 got his swap 5 years ago and has been drifting the hell out of it every time he drives, drives it hard all thetime and hasnt skipped a beat.

So reliability wise....SR all he way...Power and capability wise....F20 all the way.

Rediculously good flowing head, way better oil pump and oiling system, Stronger internals, just needs a good valvetrain swap and its good to go.

[ashtonroche]

Yeah VTC is not VTEC Sorry.

Nissans Version is VVL on the SR20VE motors. Variable cam timing and variable cam timing and lift is a whole different thing.

[TougeSR20Kid]

@ ashtonroche... Thanks for the input very informative. One other thing I was wondering is if the f20c is open or if it has a closed deck? I know a lot of the b series motors are open and should have a block guard for boost.

[ashtonroche]

F20 is open deck but it doesnt really matter. The F and K share very similar blocks and they have both been taken to over 800+whp on stock sleeves. The B-series have thinner liners than the K and F and there is more reinforcement on the F and K than the B series which is why the B series guys have to sleeve the blocks sooner.

[fliprayzin240sx]

Stock for stock...why go 200hp, torqueless engine when you can go 210hp turbo'd engine and is a drop in swap?

[MrSanchez925]

f20c is better..

more power per liter. and way more advance

[2d-ink]

Stock for stock...why go 200hp, torqueless engine when you can go 210hp turbo'd engine and is a drop in swap?

F20c = 240hp 153 ft lbs
Sr20det = 210 hp 203 ft lbs

Sr20det cheaper then F20c.
Sr20det long block cheaper then F20c long block.

[kalypso123]

4g63 and rwd bell housing for the win :0)

[coreyh]

26b all day.

but seriously, the f20c is a good motor if you have a race only, towed wherever it needs to go, short run, masively insanely expensive build with gobs of power. but for drivability and reliability go with the sr20de-t. or even an sr20de-t with the srve head swap like the scorch racing s15.

[Corbic]

Stock for stock...why go 200hp, torqueless engine when you can go 210hp turbo'd engine and is a drop in swap?


Not to mention the cost savings.


F20C is also ugly. However I think it'd make a cool FC swap.

[brndck]

gallo 24
/thread

seriously tho, this xxx vs yyy bullshit is fucking lame

if you want an sr, get an sr

if you think an f20 is superior, get an f20

your jerkoff fanboy buddies opinions really mean that much to you that you go home and cry at night when they tell you you're wrong? kill yourself.

both are solid platforms on which to build.

[K_style]

f20c is better..

more power per liter. and way more advance

what's the point of having more power per litre if it doesn't have torque to deliver it?

I prefer SR for torque.

[rb25_s13*CHUKI]

If your talking power wise and straight line the sr20 is far superior in every way despite "technology". Look at fastest drag sr20 cars they destroy the fuck out of all K,B,D,H and f series honda engines

[TougeSR20Kid]

gallo 24
/thread

seriously tho, this xxx vs yyy bullshit is fucking lame

if you want an sr, get an sr

if you think an f20 is superior, get an f20

your jerkoff fanboy buddies opinions really mean that much to you that you go home and cry at night when they tell you you're wrong? kill yourself.

both are solid platforms on which to build.

Why don't you read next time... This was a thread to find out what other peoples thoughts on the two different motors in terms of design, air flow, specifications, etc. I could care less about their thoughts about my motor I am merely trying to get educated opinions

[MrSanchez925]

what's the point of having more power per litre if it doesn't have torque to deliver it?

I prefer SR for torque.


Yeah that is true.

If we are just talking what is better from a technological stand point then the f20 is superior.

Now the rest is all opinion, personal preference, and budget.

Different strokes for different folks.
:wiggle:

[brndck]

Why don't you read next time... This was a thread to find out what other peoples thoughts on the two different motors in terms of design, air flow, specifications, etc. I could care less about their thoughts about my motor I am merely trying to get educated opinions

what the fuck??? have you never heard of a dyno then???
if you just want info about which engine is "better", than wouldn't a dyno comparison of each engine stock answer your question?

coming on a nissan specific forum and asking if an sr is better is no different than your honda fanboys telling you that an f20 is better.

if you are just bench racing then no quantifiable data matters.

[ashtonroche]

Yes, the fastest rwd cars are SR powered when it comes to numbers SR vs F20. There is a RWD 3/4 chassis K powered honda that is right behind btw. But yeah, expense wise the SR is by far cheaper, more reliable, and cheaper all around than the K and F.

For the price of just a K or F longblock you can get yourself a full on sleeved and stepped SR20 block for same if not cheaper than a stock oem K or F.

In drag racing, cost of upkeep and the build makes a huge difference. That and the SR has been around a decade longer than the K and F. You will see more rwd K's and F's in the future im sure. It wont take them long to get down in the 6's as they are already sitting right there at about 7.0-7.1 consistent.

The full on high comp f20c build and swap i did into my buddies AE86 made 215whp running on the stock ecu and was dog rich and dog lean in soo many places during the pull. On that same dyno the shop owner said all the s2k's he has seen from stock to modified put down between 180-195whp. So he knew the motor was making great power. On the AEM which he never got to put in before the motor broke a head off a valve it could have possibly made in the 230-240whp range after tuning. It desperately needed more timing than the oem map gave. Again great motors but that whole build ended up costing my buddy in the neighborhood of 7-8k bucks for the whole swap and build of the motor. 7-8k in an SR would have made more power and would have lasted longer

[usdm180sx]

Nissan VVEL

[ashtonroche]

Well all the fastest SR20's are all with the VVL SR20VE head. If that tells you something. Also you can build a full on big turbo SR20DET/VE hybrid setup for about the same as you could get a full F20 setup. So in the case of price wise. SR20 owns the F20 and youll get more power and reliability out of the SR.

When it comes to racing, the cheaper it is the better.

[wangan_cruiser]

Sr20vet braaaahhhhhhh

[FcMURRRDA]

if you're not racing at a professional level and you're just some normal joe driving it everyday or just weeknds go SR. if you are and have a shit load of money then fuck it go F20 all the way.

[WESamiss]

proof SR20DET is better than F20C.. why else would he put it into his s2000

DriftGarage SR20DET an S2000! - Page 5 (http://www.driftworks.com/forum/drift-car-projects-builds/164026-driftgarage-sr20det-s2000-5.html)

[brndck]

proof SR20DET is better than F20C.. why else would he put it into his s2000

DriftGarage SR20DET an S2000! - Page 5 (http://www.driftworks.com/forum/drift-car-projects-builds/164026-driftgarage-sr20det-s2000-5.html)
Lol idiot.
Clearly you dont remember the s13 with a boosted s2k engine that design craft engineering put together???

If you don't trust Gary Castillo then you clearly need to pull your head out.

[brndck]

Honda F20c Powered Nissan 240sx - Import Tuner Magazine (http://www.importtuner.com/tech/0712_impp_project_s13k_f20c_powered_nissan_240sx/viewall.html)

[Rafa-Z]

I guess I should have made my sarcasm more noticeable when I said it was better just for having vtek... Yes the SR is a better engine for the torque and for the price you pay for it plus it's way cheaper to make more power with it. Since it's new, I would think you need a stand alone to really mod it. An F20 or F22 swap is way overpriced. You could easily get 2 sr20s for the price of 1 s2k engine and please don't bring up the "my buddy got one for 1500" story.

A friend of mine, more like an acquaintance, had an F22 in his corolla GT-S with a 4.3 final drive and fully gutted. Kept bragging about how he was faster than everyone. I'm not into drag racing but raced him anyway to test the cars out. Pulled away 2 cars off the line with my sr and kept it each time we raced. Later when everyone would bring it up he brought up the classic "vtek didn't kick in yo!!" and kept saying how my engine was fully built and modded so he kept up pretty good. At the time I had my s14 sr stock everything except for a dynotune with 14psi stock turbo no cams. I know I had more HP but his power to weight ratio was way better than mine. My car wasn't even gutted. Those engines just have no torque. It's like a 4age on steroids which isn't saying much...

That's just my experience with one. In the end it depends what you use it for and how much money you have. You can put 1000HP into anything if you have the funds but I still dont like the torque on the honda.

[C-unit]

I guess I should have made my sarcasm more noticeable when I said it was better just for having vtek... Yes the SR is a better engine for the torque and for the price you pay for it plus it's way cheaper to make more power with it. Since it's new, I would think you need a stand alone to really mod it. An F20 or F22 swap is way overpriced. You could easily get 2 sr20s for the price of 1 s2k engine and please don't bring up the "my buddy got one for 1500" story.

A friend of mine, more like an acquaintance, had an F22 in his corolla GT-S with a 4.3 final drive and fully gutted. Kept bragging about how he was faster than everyone. I'm not into drag racing but raced him anyway to test the cars out. Pulled away 2 cars off the line with my sr and kept it each time we raced. Later when everyone would bring it up he brought up the classic "vtek didn't kick in yo!!" and kept saying how my engine was fully built and modded so he kept up pretty good. At the time I had my s14 sr stock everything except for a dynotune with 14psi stock turbo no cams. I know I had more HP but his power to weight ratio was way better than mine. My car wasn't even gutted. Those engines just have no torque. It's like a 4age on steroids which isn't saying much...

That's just my experience with one. In the end it depends what you use it for and how much money you have. You can put 1000HP into anything if you have the funds but I still dont like the torque on the honda.

An engine with a lower price tag and has more hp means it's more bang for the buck. It doesn't mean it's has better design. ;)

[ReEducation]

The only way to truly prove which engine is better: Take a stock SR and a stock F20, put them in identical chassis, mod them exactly the same, then compare them. Arguing specs on car forums really makes no progress. That's my opinion, love it or hate it.

[Matej]

One of these engines is 10 years newer.

[brndck]

One of these engines is 10 years newer.

one of these engines can also be legally smogged in CA :snoop:

[K_style]

one of these engines can also be legally smogged in CA :snoop:

After smog referee if the swap was done. It's out of topic but wouldn't LS be the better option to swap in to S chassis considering Legalizing?

[usdm180sx]

Can f20's be rebuilt like sr20det's?

[Nicky Barnes]

One of those engines have forged internals and can take way more power stock, I know this is a Nissan forum but try to be unbiased

[brndck]

camaros are better than mustangs
cummins are better than powerstroke
redheads are better than blondes
snickers is better than twix
wabbit season > duck season.
all other threads > this thread.

[s13mikesr20]

This is a tuff one both great motors but when shit hits the fan I think the Sr would be cheaper to replace then a f20c but then again you rarely have to replace a f20c unless its boosted very good argument have a friend with a f20c on a 30r car rapes but didn't last long.....

This is gonna be a 10+ page argument

I love my Sr and I still dump out 400+ but its fully forged and reinforced

[EDacIouSX]

i don't think there's a right or wrong answer here. The head flows better on the F20 but then supposedly there's reliability issues. I would like to say that the SR20 has more potential simply because the amount of aftermarket support for the SR. There's a TON!!! more development for the SR than for the F20. F20 only came on what, 100k cars world wide as oppose to the SR that probably came on about 300k cars world wide if not more than that.

[ashtonroche]

F20's can be rebuilt as long as there is no damage to the cylinder walls. If there is the block is pretty much Fucked. My buddy that I did the swap into his AE86 had to have his block sleeved and it was cheaper for him to just sleeve the block than to find a new shortblock. Golden Eagle did the sleeve job. Very stout block now. The stock cylinder had a long scratched groove down the wall from a piece of metal that went into the motor. Done for. While on an SR you could just bore it out and be done.

So yeah, stock for stock put in the same chassis, im gonna say the SR would be stronger and feel better overall especially if you were using it for drifting. F20 does not have the torque you need to drift well. So in that case SR.

Also the F20 has just as much if not more aftermarket support than the SR. Sorry, thats just a fact. Dont care if it wasnt as mass produced. They have just as much and better parts available.

[codyace]

kick a rod

sr: 200 bucks and trade a few option magazines
s2k: 1500 bucks and trade your EF hatch


That' to me says go SR20.

[TougeSR20Kid]

camaros are better than mustangs
cummins are better than powerstroke
redheads are better than blondes
snickers is better than twix
wabbit season > duck season.
all other threads > this thread.

Yeah dude you've voiced that the thread is useless in your opinion yet you still troll it? If you dont like it or have anything informative or useful to add why not just leave?

[brndck]

Yeah dude you've voiced that the thread is useless in your opinion yet you still troll it? If you dont like it or have anything informative or useful to add why not just leave?

As a reminder to you and every idiot like you that "opinion" threads (hey I'm too sack-less to make up my own mind, you strangers on the Internet shoud tell me what I'm supposed to like) are a waste of bandwidth.


Hey I don't know if I should stickerbomb my whole car, will my friends give me mad props? LEMME MAKE A THREAD ABOUT IT.

hey I dunno if I should hang a domo or a dozen wakaba stickers off my tail hook. LEMME MAKE A THREAD ABOUT IT.

Hey will these guys at the local meet blow me if I can tell them that some strangers on the Internet say the SR is better than the s2k engine? LEMME MAKE A THREAD ABOUT IT.

[TougeSR20Kid]

Yeah cus I said that I had the inability to make up my mind... I already had my own opinion based on price an what not, I said that in the first post but as I previously mentioned you don't read. I don't know if it's your vision being fucked off from taking one to many cumshots to the face or you just didn't learn to read good in that there back country school of yours. This thread was just to learn more about differing specs on the two motors and maybe a few things that I didn't already know because hey no one knows everything, well except maybe for you, your troll-liness.....

So once again be constructive to the debate or get the fuck outa here brah

[codyace]

Yeah cus I said that I had the inability to make up my mind... I already had my own opinion based on price an what not, I said that in the first post but as I previously mentioned you don't read. I don't know if it's your vision being fucked off from taking one to many cumshots to the face or you just didn't learn to read good in that there back country school of yours. This thread was just to learn more about differing specs on the two motors and maybe a few things that I didn't already know because hey no one knows everything, well except maybe for you, your troll-liness.....

So once again be constructive to the debate or get the fuck outa here brah

I don't think he is trolling at all, just being honest. No reason to attack him with that sort of language, as it really only shows your own shortcomings (on many levels).

Mod the car for what you want, not for what a bunch of forum dorks want If you want to know the differences, you'd google them...not ask a forum where easily less than 1% have even driven an S2000, let alone have an opinion worthwhile enough to compare the two engines.

In the end, you're comparing apples to oranges. May as well ask what is better, the color green or kangaroos.

[TougeSR20Kid]

Yeah everyone's entitled to their own opinions this was more an exercise to see if it was possible to have an educated discussion about a topic. And that guys just a douche, but whatever.

Yeah but I started out stating it was like comparing apples to oranges. And I do have an sr so I mean it's not like I'm asking everyone else's opinion on which one should I get. I was just throwing that out there as a long shot in the hopes that a few people on here were knowledgable enough to offer up some new insightful opinions about the two motors aside from that which I was already aware of. After all isn't that the purpose of a forum? But hey none of this is news as I outlined all that in my original post so whatever. And for the most part there have been some informative posts so I thank those individuals that contributed. And now mods if you could please close the thread it would be much appreciated.

[brndck]

I

In the end, you're comparing apples to oranges. May as well ask what is better, the color green or kangaroos.
FUCK YEAH KANGAROOS!!!
THE COLOR GREEN IS BULLSHIT!!!!
Yeah everyone's entitled to their own opinions this was more an exercise to see if it was possible to have an educated discussion about a topic. And that guys just a douche, but whatever.

like i said, why ask for OPINIONS about the subject if what you are looking for is PROOF that one engine is better than the other???

my OPINION is that the SR is better, but of course it is, i'm a nissan junkie. what would you expect on a nissan forum??? if you want quantifiable DATA about which engine is better, why are you asking for OPINIONS about things, irrelevant to the actual facts???

You can't PROVE an argument by asking for OPINIONS. All you'll end up with is which opinion is more popular, and that is not the same thing as a proof.

[TougeSR20Kid]

This is very true I guess that the wording made it ambiguous, using words in lee of other ones has always been a shortcoming of mine. I thoght it wad clear but you are right I guess I should have specified more.

As per your first claim yeah I did ask it on a predominantly Nissan forum but that doesn't mean there won't be people that don't know a thing or two about both motors and are willing to share their experience with both, I.e. shop owners or someone who has owned and worked on both

[Future240]

Closed per op request.