So, I hear you don't like hondas...

[DSC]

Well thats not Awkward as ####! My sis was chillin in her room with a friend and I walked in to use her bathroom (other 2 are torn appart, getting remodeled) I say hello on my way through and go do my thing. I come back out and the dude is like &quot;hey what kind of car is that out front, its pretty nice&quot; i'm like &quot;its a nissan 240sx&quot; and he replys &quot;oh, your sis tells me you don't like hondas&quot; I reply &quot;uhh....?<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'>??....?<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'>....yeah........it depends on what you do to them really...............what do you drive(I already knew the answer)?&quot; him &quot;a 97 civic hatchback, its out front&quot; me &quot;oh..........cool, i'll have to see it some time&quot; him &quot;yeah, we should get together and talk cars sometime&quot; me &quot;yeah.........sounds good........well, enjoy your movie i'm gona go....................back upstairs, talk to you two later&quot; Hehe that was a funny little chat, just thought I would share that with you <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'> you know it always runs through my head &quot;i'm faster&quot; hehehe anyway, yeah....interesting ltl chat with a honda owner.

IM FASTER IM FASTER..... next time ask him if he wants to race <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>

[Zenki Two40]

i was waiting for u to comment on his post <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'> .

i use my 99 teg for saily driving <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'>

[bing]

is his car nice, or is it stock and he's like

&quot;im gonna do this and this and this and...&quot;

[DSC]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from bing on 10<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'>9 pm on Dec. 6, 2001
is his car nice, or is it stock and he's like

&quot;im gonna do this and this and this and...&quot;</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>Dono, that was the entire conversation, I've never seen the guy before in my life and I didn't feel like looking at his car. &nbsp;So yeah, I guess we'll talk more when he comes over again.

[Zemus]

I say race him, if its stock, he has no chance, but u can make those lil POS' go fast, so beware

[Zenki Two40]

u can make our lil' POS's go fast 2 though.

yah ours are slow if u think about it a civic and 240 shouldnt even be in the same breath but they can be so thats bad <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':('>

[240enthusiast]

well all my husband and I have owned hondas.. he's had three hondas civic Si's hb and an 97 ITR. &nbsp;I had two of the three civics and passed them onto him. &nbsp;He sold the ITR in March and this civic he has now has a 98JDM ITR engine and I'm sorry but that car is hella fast. &nbsp;We've always liked hondas because they're good econo cars if you don't have a shit load of money. &nbsp;And in all seriousness it doesn't take that much to get them going-----&gt;in comparison to some other cars in the same class. &nbsp;But we have always liked other makes of cars. &nbsp;For instance I'm hooked on the S14.. I can hardly breathe when I think of them and SR20DET.... my god. &nbsp;Currently he's dying to have an RX-7.

We have always had this understanding that you can't sit there and challenge a fucking turbo supra to race and really even for a second think that you just might win. &nbsp; Just the other day My husband was on GA400 and two white M3's started to pick on him thinking 'yeah it's just a fucking little kid in 'another' civic thinking he's the shit.&quot; &nbsp; Let me tell you that first he spanked them in traffic and then out of traffic dragged them down the fucking highway. &nbsp;Talk about element of surprise. &nbsp;But on the other hand a #### Z06 pulls on you the best you can say is I hung in there... so anyways....

There was a reason why they stopped making the 240... anyone remember why? &nbsp;So don't feel bad if you get spanked by a civic... it's not your fault... it's the manufacturer. &nbsp;Yeah the older model stock civics may have a harder time catching a stock 240 but I'm telling you these new models will give you a run for our money. &nbsp;Especially nowadays with all these little spoiled kids &nbsp;who get anything from the the people that live in the master bedroom, anything can be under the hood.

[MingMing]

well..
i would just like to defend the nissans here...
first off, yes a built civic can be fast, but cmon
a civic, lite ass car, with an itr engine, one of the sexiest engines ever
how can that even compare to a stock 240?
but personally, i would have to say that it DOES take that much more to get them going
evne the tweaked out b16 civic si engine has only 111 lb-ft torque, sure its got great hp, but its just not the kind of base to build a race engine with
the new si's learned that and their displacement is 2.0
what i'm trying to say is, with an engine swap, you cant really call a civic a civic anymore

and if anyone really BUILT the 1.6 engine to run as fast as that itr civic, (which i'd like to see)
then a LOT LESS money could have been spent on a 240, with its 2.4 liter displacement, reinforcing the engine, and slapping a huge turbo on it
you'd get more bottom end to work with...

also i'd like to add that the 240 has real nice weight distro and is rwd, just more fun =D

(Edited by MingMing at 1:12 am on Dec. 8, 2001)

[240enthusiast]

for a basically stock ITR engine in that little ass civic it's pushing
176hp and 128ft lbs/tq.. dynoed last saturday at dynolab. &nbsp;This is with a fucked up crooked exhaust, bad wires and plugs... a shit intake... And you know what yes you can't call it a civic anymore but it's still a honda any which way you want to slice it. &nbsp;

An ITR motor puts out more power(hp) to the wheels that your engine does to the crank. &nbsp;So how can it not be comparable? &nbsp;Now rememeber we are talking USDM here... An S20DET yes I will say that's it a different setup.. But a 240sx compared to the ITR.. No I just don't think so.

[240enthusiast]

oh yeah.. Lisa Kubo

[misnomer]

What vehicles does the ITR engine come in (sorry, I don't follow Honda's engines)? Swapping an engine makes any vehicle something entirely different. Also keep in mind you're comparing different generations of vehicles. The 240sx powerplant dates back to 1991, with only minor changes. 155 horsies back in the day was by no means mind boggling, but much more respectable than it is today.

Any car can be built to kickassness, just takes money and/or ingenuity. Of course, you already know why you drive the 240sx instead of a civic, it's just that much more fun :-)

[240enthusiast]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from misnomer on 12:38 am on Dec. 8, 2001
What vehicles does the ITR engine come in (sorry, I don't follow Honda's engines)? Swapping an engine makes any vehicle something entirely different. Also keep in mind you're comparing different generations of vehicles. The 240sx powerplant dates back to 1991, with only minor changes. 155 horsies back in the day was by no means mind boggling, but much more respectable than it is today.

Any car can be built to kickassness, just takes money and/or ingenuity. Of course, you already know why you drive the 240sx instead of a civic, it's just that much more fun :-)</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

Well actually I don't drive one just yet but I can tell you that when I do drive one it won't be for the stock power of the engine. &nbsp;I'm buying an SR20DET first before I even buy the actual car---98 240sx SE. &nbsp;I'm going to build the engine first and then buy the car, slap it in.. see how it runs and make whatever adjustments I need to and then let it out of the cage and start slappin some booty around town.. and yes that does include my fellow honda owner husband and other friends..and then eventually after I have taken reign the on the streets of atlanta, I'll take it to the track and kick some more ass!!!! *MUWAHAHAHAHAH*

[misnomer]

Kick. . .








. . . .Ass :-)

[240enthusiast]

My husband and I talk shit to eachother allll the time. &nbsp;Soon after I finish with my 'project- daily- driver- kick- your- ass- car' &nbsp;he wants to do his FD. &nbsp;So I always tell him that he musn't think too cocky for I will have his ass on a platter waiting for him to eat it back. &nbsp;My husband and I have always had a competition going. &nbsp;When he still had the ITR and I had my civic, I knew he was hella faster than my stock little EG-hatchback Si. &nbsp; But him and I would still race up and down the highways here or stoplight drag. I would pick on some one and give them a little run and then out of nowhere he would come and clean up for me. &nbsp;That was so fun. &nbsp;So I can just imagine what's going to happen when we both have our dreamcars up and running...

[HippoSleek]

OKay, I can't help it. I like Civics... I sold my EG Si to get my 240. Out of the box, the s14 is faster than the EG, pulls higher lateral g's, better tire/wheel combo, etc. The value of the two cars wasn't radically different (used) and I knew that it would take upwards of $5K to make either of them fast. I sold the Civic - period. The new price says why - the 240 was and is more car that a Civic. The sticker for my EG came to $14K - the s14 was $22K... and I sold my Si for about what I paid for the 240. Bone stock - advantage 240.

I will grant you that an EG w/ an ITR is a nice combo - I know that my old one has one now. BUT - USDM/JDM - I don't care. A motor swap is a motor swap. That said, stock for stock, an SR 240 and B18c5 EG would be near equal in performance (straight line b/c everything else is too subjective, Ms. Kubo). Now, take the extra $1500 you saved getting the SR over the B18c5 and do some BPUs. It's not a race anymore. The 240 will still out handle it and look better doing so, so that hasn't changed either. Swap for swap - advantage 240.

I will not deny that there are some #### fast Hondas out there, but an EG is really not in the same class as an s14 or s13. With enough money and fabrication, I can made a Festiva that will beat the #### out of an FD? So? As for advances in Honda engine tech - the b-series is an old design that is a proven performer... excepting i-VTEC, very little has changed in their basic design since their introduction in the early '90s. So I don't really get what you mean by &quot;new models.&quot; Sure the Si w/ more hp will give the 240 a run and the GSR and ITR will walk on it. They were Civics with a factory motor swap and have been faster since the DC2 first arrived w/ the B18 - for that I blame Nissan - but not when some kid has plunked $10K into his d-series Civic (which all hb's were)... $ for $ of mods or swap for swap - I would win.

As for the disappearance of the 240 - I don't really get what you are implying. Would you also say that the RX-7, Supra, z32, and 3000GT disappeared for the same reason - of is it just a coincidence that all sporty Japanese RWD cars left the US at the end of their mid-late 90s model runs?

I guess what I am trying to say is that I do respect Civics - I liked mine, but they really are two different classes of cars. Sure they may run together stock (actually only the EK Si), but once you open the Pandora's Box of motor swaps and bolt on parts, its easy to see which was designed as a sporty car and which was had economy as its inspiration. As for the M3's - I guess your husband is a better driver, b/c I am sure that you are aware that the ITR does not have M3 numbers in any category. Figuring 20% parasitic loss, you are still making considerably less hp than an M3. Or maybe they were being a bit more reasonable considering you were on public roads (although I've lived in Atlanta, and I recall going &quot;with traffic&quot; at 90)! &nbsp;The bottom line is that I like Honda products, they are consistently good cars with good performance. &nbsp;The aftermarket is phenominal and they have a great enthusiast following (I may buy a CRX to get in on the ECHC in a year or so). &nbsp;BUT, I don't think it's too much to say that Civics are in a different class than the 240 - I also don't think its fair to compare a motor swapped car to a factory car.

(Edited by HippoSleek at 10:54 am on Dec. 8, 2001)

[mistert]

ok im confused, why does everybody keep bringing up lisa kubo? are you referring to 240enthusiast as mrs kubo because she likes hondas and what not, or have i missed out on something and 240enthusiast is...lisa kubo. that'd be a trip!

anyways...vs. any honda sportscars sold on the domestic market (excluding s2000 and nsx), none can really compare in most performance except maybe the prelude and ITR. yeah these cars in stock form should be able to beat it straight off the line. the ITR has that high winding engine, and the prelude makes almost as much torque as the 240, but has VTEC to make all that top end power. I honestly dont think we'd be having discussions like these if nissan had chosen to give us the SR20DET, or at least just the VVT SR20. would that be too much to ask for? they already produce cars with FWD SR20's here, it wouldntve been that hard to juts give us the VVT sr20det which had as much torque as the ka, but more hp than that windy b18c5. and if nissan HAD chosen to give us what would basically be a for real silvia Q's, then they would probably have continued production of the s14a (like in europe), or brought us the s15, because sales wouldntve been so miserable. now it looks like nissan is finally catching on with the performance trends, with the new altima and the spec V se-r...i guess its about time. too bad they couldn'tve done it a little earlier

[crazycuban]

well put hippo...
the vvt sr20 (i'm assuming ur talking about n/a) does not put as much hp out as the b18c5. &nbsp;the sr20de puts out 165-175 (forget which one) in most advanced form, while the b18c5 puts out 195. &nbsp;take into account reduced drivetrain losses from the fwd configuration, and the ITR would still kick the shit out of the silvia q's. &nbsp;
turbo for turbo, i'd take the silvia. &nbsp;while u can turbocharge a civic and make it really fast, the fwd paired with high power would mean not a lot of traction. &nbsp;on the other hand, if we're talking about n/a vs. n/a, hondas have us beat. &nbsp;by far. &nbsp;i can't think of any n/a car that comes anywhere close to where the hondas are today. &nbsp;jeremy lookofsky? &nbsp;10 secs n/a? &nbsp;thats insane. &nbsp;that engine spins to formula one speeds. &nbsp;
too many peeps dont respect hondas though...one of the best races i've seen in recent memory was a 5.0, burbling up to the line, thinking he was gonna beat the shit out of a white, stock looking 4-door lx (pretty sure it was EG). &nbsp;needless to say, the 5.0 overlooked the fact that this EG had a big-ass front mount, and got an ass-kicking. &nbsp;btw, hippo, that was an inline-pro car (if that means anything to u)...####...that shop makes some fast ass hondas.

[S14Grl]

I'm a bit lazy and I don't feel like reading what you all wrote up there, &nbsp;but I just wanted to voice my opinion on this, and I'm sure some of you will agree with me:

I don't hate Hondas... I just find myself amused by what some people do to them. And for the sake of humor, I do repeat it and bring it up with irony and sarcasm. I'm sorry if I'm offending anyone... but if I am, than you are one of those people who put &quot;V-Tec&quot; stickers on HX Civics and whatnot. I truly appreciate Honda Motor's engineering capabilities: their motors are not trash and their cars are truly capable. I've seen some really nice and really fast Hondas. What I don't appreciate is the ridiculous owners who try and &quot;represent&quot; Honda and include themselves in the world.

That's all.

Irena

[HippoSleek]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from crazycuban on 11:48 am on Dec. 8, 2001
&nbsp;too many peeps dont respect hondas though...one of the best races i've seen in recent memory was a 5.0, burbling up to the line, thinking he was gonna beat the shit out of a white, stock looking 4-door lx (pretty sure it was EG). needless to say, the 5.0 overlooked the fact that this EG had a big-ass front mount, and got an ass-kicking. btw, hippo, that was an inline-pro car (if that means anything to u)...####...that shop makes some fast ass hondas.
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

Those Inline Pro cars have taken many a sucker off the line! &nbsp;That has to be one of the best turbo Honda shops in the country <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'> &nbsp;First time I saw one of their cars (ITR turbo, IIRC) was at Budd's Creek in about 1998 - taking out a BPU Supra!

I'll also agree that Honda is the king of NA and hp/l. &nbsp;No doubt. &nbsp;I left out the turbo part of the equation, but I also don't know anyone (incl. Inline) that has been able to keep a b series turbo running for long. &nbsp;I do, however, know some serious Honda junkies that place bets on the lifespan of them everytime they hear of a new one.

[NoTuchn]

DSC: &nbsp; i know its off topic, but i had to tell you i love this quote: &nbsp;

&quot; It is very easy to get caught up in the showmanship and prestige of expensive parts for your car, but the best investment you'll ever make in road racing is the time you spend tuning your driving skills.&quot; -Turnfast

i wish you would make it a bumper sticker... <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

[mistert]

there is a 195hp N/A sr20 i believe called the SR20VE, which they could've produced a verison of to compete with the b15c5. whats the torque on a vvt sr20de though? im sure whatever it is its sitll more than the b18c5, and something rivaling the torque of the heavier h22a

and btw people always talk about how much HP/litre the honda s2000 has, and how their small displacement engines can smoke anyone elses. well, what the ####, did everyone forget about the N/A mazda wankle engines? the FC3S GXL had better hp/L than the s2000, and the newer RENESIS 1.3L has as much hp and torque as honda's 2.0 f20a4 or whatever the s2000 is. honda may be the king of conventional N/A engines, but there is a better power alternative...honda does still have them beat a little on gas milage with those engines though, which does say something for honda

[crazycuban]

what im saying is that the sr20de is vvt though. the sr20ve would have...shit...variable lift, right? reason i say this is because the s14 and s15 sr20s have vvt, and they're still called the sr20Det..
yeah, those rotaries are low displacement and high power, but they have a different cycle. because each rotor has a 3 part cycle, and there are two rotors, then both rotors are firing, on the intake stroke, and on the exhaust stroke at all times (one side will be on the intake, one on the exhaust, one on the compression). looking at it this way, u really have to multiply the number of rotors by three to get the number of equivalent cylinders, because each rotor acts like 3 pistons, and the displacement by 2, because there are two rotors sharing the same chamber. &nbsp;in a piston engine, each piston would be doing one thing at a time, and they would each have their own cylinder. the 13B-REW is the equivalent of a 2.6liter 6, and the 20B is a 4.0 liter 9 cylinder.

(Edited by crazycuban at 3:27 pm on Dec. 8, 2001)

[mistert]

well in NHRA and all other competitions, 2 rotors are classed as 4 cyl's and 3 rotors are classes as 6 cyl's, even if this is the case.

and yeah you're right the sr20ve is variable lift, not just VVT, however its an example of what companies like nissan and toyota can do using the same innovation that honda does, and produce an engine just as capable

[crazycuban]

u sure 2 rotors are 4s? &nbsp;ive never seen a rotary quick class racer...im pretty sure that rotaries are 6s.

[DSC]

Yeah, every time I hear about an rx7 racing, its in the 6cyl class.

[mistert]

hmm every time i've read them they were listed in 4 categories, i dunno they definately should be listed as 6's, i may just be confused with this (i generally dont keep up with drag racing, and i may have my stats backwards). all you REALLY need to know is that &quot;wankel go whirrr, wankel go fast&quot; and hopefully not &quot;wankel go BOOM!&quot;. i dunno, i've just always loved rotary engines, had a special place in my heart for them...i'd like to own one of the old mazda rotary pickups that i dont think ever made their way to our shores, that'd be pretty cool...or an rx-5 would be pretty cool too, with a 3-rotor swap

[BEISSEN]

I hate civics especialy if they are hooked up i dont car they are crappy &nbsp;they cant handel high shots of nos a turbo rips them up without everything being redone have you seen a turbo honda come off the assembly line or a supercharged look at the 240 in japan our real engine is a sr20det 220 bhp now do you think a honda will stand up to that the biggest engine so far is a h22a1 integra engine that hondas swap alot with not us we only want the sr20det or throw a second stage turbo on it and rip the living shit out of every honda and make them crawl back to the line i hate when a honda or a honda lover puts a &quot;vtech&quot; sticker on their car it is v-tec as*h##% i hate that

97 240sx
injen intake
audio upgrade

[Kid Zelda]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from BEISSEN on 7:11 pm on Dec. 8, 2001
I hate civics especialy if they are hooked up i dont car they are crappy they cant handel high shots of nos a turbo rips them up without everything being redone have you seen a turbo honda come off the assembly line or a supercharged look at the 240 in japan our real engine is a sr20det 220 bhp now do you think a honda will stand up to that the biggest engine so far is a h22a1 integra engine that hondas swap alot with not us we only want the sr20det or throw a second stage turbo on it and rip the living shit out of every honda and make them crawl back to the line i hate when a honda or a honda lover puts a &quot;vtech&quot; sticker on their car it is v-tec as*h##% i hate that

97 240sx
injen intake
audio upgrade</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
I hate when someone doesn't put PERIODS (.).....its so hard to read....... a o, my manz honda gotz like 18th stick-Rr v-tec = honda in the honda line of assembly without double turbo doing a dance in the drk moon shines through &nbsp;leaf of death smile now

[mistert]

second stage turbo eh beissen, and all this talk of nos, i guess you saw fast and furious one too many times. i guess now they have internet equipped computers in schools for &quot;special children&quot;?

and by the way the h22a is from a prelude not an integra, it also comes as a destroked engine in the accord, and isnt that common a swap for a civic (though, civics can easily run a 13 second 1320 (thats 1/4 mile for you, beissen), so you might wanna consider showing them SOME respect). &nbsp;and that is NOT the largest honda engine, one of the new K series engines has what, 2.4 or 2.6l? what about the NSX? what about the v6's? what about the upcoming v8 for the new NSX? hmmmmm...fuck the acura legend and 3.2tl and 3.5rs and what not, lets completely ignore them.

all in all i dont really like hondas, but most of all i generally dont like teh faggots who drive them and the parts they put on them. they're good cars for what they are, but for the most part, hondas fit the exact definition of rice...cars and the people that drive them trying to be something they're not. something you should look into, because no matter how smart you are trying to be, you just come across and a complete and total ignorant fool.

you dont have to like some things, but its wise to show them some f'ing respect

[Takumi]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from mistert on 7:29 pm on Dec. 8, 2001
second stage turbo eh beissen, and all this talk of nos, i guess you saw fast and furious one too many times. i guess now they have internet equipped computers in schools for &quot;special children&quot;?

and by the way the h22a is from a prelude not an integra, it also comes as a destroked engine in the accord, and isnt that common a swap for a civic (though, civics can easily run a 13 second 1320 (thats 1/4 mile for you, beissen), so you might wanna consider showing them SOME respect). and that is NOT the largest honda engine, one of the new K series engines has what, 2.4 or 2.6l? what about the NSX? what about the v6's? what about the upcoming v8 for the new NSX? hmmmmm...fuck the acura legend and 3.2tl and 3.5rs and what not, lets completely ignore them.

all in all i dont really like hondas, but most of all i generally dont like teh faggots who drive them and the parts they put on them. they're good cars for what they are, but for the most part, hondas fit the exact definition of rice...cars and the people that drive them trying to be something they're not. something you should look into, because no matter how smart you are trying to be, you just come across and a complete and total ignorant fool.

you dont have to like some things, but its wise to show them some f'ing respect</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

Okay first off, yea the H22A is from a Prelude VTEC. However, Accords have F-series engines, not H-series like the Accords overseas in Japan (SiR). Second of all, I happened to drive a 'teg and I've got friends who also drive Hondas, but they're not into that Fast And The Furious or Import Showoff bullshit. I don't see why I'm classified with that particular &quot;riceboy&quot; group just because I own a Honda. The ones I know aren't posers, they know what their cars are, and they know what they're doing. So don't go around calling every single Honda drive a &quot;faggot&quot;. I think it's more than one person who needs to show a little respect or at least clarify what you just said. I'm getting REALLY sick and tired of this stereotyping bullshit Honda vs. Everyone debate. Each car has it's own perks, limits, and potential. It's the owner that makes the car what it is, not the other way around.

Yes, I admit it, I drive a Honda. So what? I love Nissans too as well as many other cars from different makes. Even domestics have earned my respect. I used to ALWAYS bash on domestics. Then I grew out of that hatred, became more open-minded about this hobby, and just appreciated various imports and domestic muscle cars.

Sorry, I'm just in a irrate mood tonight. Pardon me and disregard this if you want. I don't care. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':('>

[pkw1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from mistert on 8:29 pm on Dec. 8, 2001
second stage turbo eh beissen, and all this talk of nos, i guess you saw fast and furious one too many times. i guess now they have internet equipped computers in schools for &quot;special children&quot;?

and by the way the h22a is from a prelude not an integra, it also comes as a destroked engine in the accord, and isnt that common a swap for a civic (though, civics can easily run a 13 second 1320 (thats 1/4 mile for you, beissen), so you might wanna consider showing them SOME respect). and that is NOT the largest honda engine, one of the new K series engines has what, 2.4 or 2.6l? what about the NSX? what about the v6's? what about the upcoming v8 for the new NSX? hmmmmm...fuck the acura legend and 3.2tl and 3.5rs and what not, lets completely ignore them.

all in all i dont really like hondas, but most of all i generally dont like teh faggots who drive them and the parts they put on them. they're good cars for what they are, but for the most part, hondas fit the exact definition of rice...cars and the people that drive them trying to be something they're not. something you should look into, because no matter how smart you are trying to be, you just come across and a complete and total ignorant fool.

you dont have to like some things, but its wise to show them some f'ing respect
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>ya, take it easy man.. not all honda drivers are like that.. it's just that some of the losers out there that made a bad rep for the rest of them. &nbsp;I use to own a Prelude as well, and I don't consider myself near rice..




(Edited by pkw1 at 1:50 am on Dec. 9, 2001)

[Grant]

yea, I'm still somewhat a hondaboy, still want a prelude, &nbsp;and pkw1 is right, it some of the people who own em that make them look bad.

[KoukiS14]

Hondas are awesome cars. . very well thought out, excellent fit and finish, will last forever... All the qualities I love my Nissan for... &nbsp;

But. . BUT. . it's hard to make a Honda that's not ricey... The aftermarket is flooded with crap for these cars... compare them to our 240.. All we have is expensive but high quality imported parts... &nbsp;We're forced into buying good stuff =) &nbsp;

a friend has a '00 GSR that really looks good. . he didn't put cheap shit all over it.. &nbsp;It's an awesome car.... And to be honest... If the Prelude was RWD, I'd prolly have a Prelude.

-Rob

[mistert]

takumi i was referring to the fact that he said that the h22 was a teg engine, and yes the F series IS a destroked H engine, the prelude VTEC head is a direct swap onto non-VTEC F series accords. and im not saying that ALL honda drivers are faggots, i guess my choice of words wasnt very right there...just the majority of people who drive &quot;hooked up&quot; hondas and what not. sure theres plenty of nice oens, but these days those are the exception in a world of rice.

dont forget that i wrote at the bottom of my reply to respect hondas, because i do, its just that the majority of modified hondas and those who drive them i have no respect for

[matic 240sx]

hondas are not made to be fast cars.. people that wont real power out of hondas have lots of problems when adding turbos and what not.. &nbsp; i mean.. &nbsp;in april my car will be rolling out my friend brads garage.... and it will run 12s and 11s with NOS no doubt about it... with an sr20det s13 motor... &nbsp;and i promise no full metal body honda civic or integra with come to a drag stirp and do 12s all day with me... &nbsp;;D &nbsp;maybe a s2000 or nsx... but nothing else...

[HippoSleek]

Okay, I agree that Hondas are meant to be fast cars, in the Supra, Mustang, Corvette, M3 sense of the word - but in their class, they are &quot;fast.&quot; &nbsp;Pre V-Spec, what modded economy car (200sx, Escort, Protoge, Mirage, Corolla, base Jetta (b/c other are too much $$), Neon) &nbsp; could beat a Civic? &nbsp;ditto the Teg &amp; Prelude? &nbsp;In their USDM class, Hondas offered the most performance and the after market just adds to this. &nbsp;As I said above, engine swaps change the equation, and I don't put certain other cars in their class. &nbsp;That said, the b-series motor is a leader in its class. &nbsp;And BTW: I can show you a whole garage full of boosted Civics (most w/ full bodies) that will outrun the fastest 240sx - KA or SR. &nbsp;Drag racing, however, is far from the best indicator of a car's performance.

I frequent a certain Honda board that has more road racers or autoxers than EVERY Nissan board I visit combined. &nbsp;Those guys don't play - they are serious about performance in the turns and most of them happen to drive Hondas. &nbsp;Could a properly tuned 240 with a similar driver beat them in the &quot;twisties?&quot; &nbsp;Probably. &nbsp;But the point is that they are no show, all go people. &nbsp;And their cars are fast - showing that Hondas are capable in turns too. &nbsp;

I guess the bottom line, for me, is that no nameplate has a right to put down the others. &nbsp;IMHO, the 240 is a car with few peers. &nbsp;RWD and the ability to make serious power put it in a class with serious sports cars, but price and the stock KA leave it classed with Ludes and Tegs, where it really doesn't fit. &nbsp;To me, the potential of the car made it a bargain. &nbsp;BUT, as much as I may dislike the Fast and Furious culture so often associated with Honda, I fully respect their cars for what they are and what they can be. &nbsp;As much as you want to hate the &quot;scene,&quot; I think it is important to realize that the cars and many of the drivers have achieved what we are all seeking - performance.

BTW: I don't believe that the H series head will fit onto an F block. &nbsp;I know there are certain differences b/n the H22a1 and H22a4 (open vs. closed deck), but I am sure the latter won't work and doubt the former will. &nbsp;Also, IIRC, the Euro Accord R has an F20 turbo and only the JDM R gets the H22.

guys! don't write so much i can't read it all!!!!! well im saying..... why do honda guys put V-tec stickers on their car the car came with it stock? makes no sense to advertise it its gaudy.

[NoTuchn]

ok, i know my opinions dont really matter at all... but heres my feeling on the matter. &nbsp;please keep in mind that im from a small town (fredericksburg, va) with a relatively large &quot;import scene&quot;. &nbsp; if your going to tell me about how fast your civic is, unless i know the car, im going to laugh. civics are simple, economical cars. they have quite a bit of potential tho, dont get me wrong... that is if youre swaping engines and running NOS. but if youre gonns put in an intake and exhaust and think youre the shit, youre wrong. &nbsp;thats exactly what the majority of civic owners around here do. &nbsp;i dont know... some civics are truely respectable, but most are crap. &nbsp;i personally would never own on solely because i wouldnt wanna look like every third car on the road. besides, i love my nissan.

[Takumi]

Want to know if nicely tuned Hondas exist?

http://www.ff-squad.com

THE END and GOOD DAY

[Zenki Two40]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from Takumi on 2:45 pm on Dec. 10, 2001
Want to know if nicely tuned Hondas exist?

http://www.ff-squad.com

THE END and GOOD DAY</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

well of course man. can u think of one car company where there isn't some ppl that don't hook up their cars? those r some nicely done hondas on that site. i do think there r 2 many ppl on this forum that criticize what they don't have or criticize a car(s) cuz they hate everything else if it's not exactly like theirs. like their 240sx is f'n better than every car out there that has ne kinda mod on it.

[240enthusiast]

HEy guys this is 240enthusiast's husband. &nbsp;I just want to clear the air here.

1st things 1st I like any car that is quick. &nbsp;PERIOD.

The only reason I did a JDM ITR hybrid was because I needed a reliable car when I start my 3rd gen FD project.

I haven't read everything that was posted but I'll respond to some of the stuff that's been said.

Right now my car is a high 13 second quarter mile car. &nbsp;Yes I do believe that a SR20DEt equipped 240 will be a good run but it better have some mods on it. &nbsp;A stock SR20DET 240 will not beat me unless he is a #### good driver (Then it would be close).

Of course anything with boost has the potential to be faster then my car with minor bolt ons. &nbsp;By the time I'm done with this car it will have 200-220 to the wheels naturally aspirated, be daily driveable, and will run high 12's low 13's.

I know there is alot of Honda's out there that aren't quick claiming that they are fast. &nbsp;These are the same guys that run up on my car and get their ass handed to them. &nbsp;

I also know that FWD cars aren't the platform of choice for drag racing but like i said I needed a reliable car while my wife starts her 240 project and I start my FD project.

My car has no crazy graphics or crazy paint or anything. &nbsp;It looks stock (Even put a Civic DX on the back to fool people).

I'll say it again I respect any car that is quick. &nbsp;But don't let your love of Nissan and blind hate of Honda get you ass smoked (Be it @ the track, strip or auto-X course)

Here's some flame bait:::::: &nbsp; Unless you have a turbo kit on the motor that comes with US 240 (KA24) you have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING FOR ME. &nbsp;

I REPEAT:::::If your 240 has the KA24 motor in it and all you have is Intake and exhaust (Maybe even a shot of NOS or a header)..........Shhh!!!!! &nbsp;You shouldn't talk while grown folks is playin'

Flame retardent suit is on.....fire away.

[240enthusiast]

Oh BTW for the guy who found it a little hard to believe I took an M3. &nbsp;I thought it was weird too. &nbsp;But we were on open road with very little traffic in front of us. &nbsp;We both floored it @ the same time and I pulled on him. &nbsp;You really don't need skill to drive fast on the highway just know how to shift.

I thought I would've lost and I bet he did too but I wasn't the one cursing @ my car that night.

[crazycuban]

guys, like i said b4...yeah, great, theres so much &quot;ricey&quot; stuff for hondas...but if there were as many 240sx's on the road as civics, we'd have the rice too. &nbsp;
and what the fuck is with all this f&amp;f talk? &nbsp;god dammit...i swear to god next time i hear someone say &quot;nos&quot;, as in one word, imma kill somebody. &nbsp;its NITROUS. &nbsp;nos is just a company that makes nitrous - Nitrous Oxide Systems. &nbsp;u dont see peeps goin around calling nitrous venom, do u? &nbsp;
screw &quot;nos&quot;. &nbsp;thats the one thing i hate bout that movie. &nbsp;now, everybody's all about &quot;nos&quot;. &nbsp;first thing peeps say when i say im souping up my car is &quot;are u gonna put nos on it?&quot; &nbsp;then i say no, the engine im putting in is stock turbo tho, and their faces go blank. &nbsp;i wish we were back in the old days. &nbsp;at least then, peeps would ask &quot;is it turbo&quot;, still having no idea, instead of &quot;does it have nos&quot; and sounding like a complete fucking idiot.

sorry for the rant, bad day...not meaning to single anyone out either...

[mistert]

i agree, i think Rice and Ridiculous has done NOTHING good for the whole &quot;import racing scene&quot;. now kids at school are talking about supras all the time like &quot;YEAH SUPRAS ARE COOL YOU CAN PUT 2 NOS BUTTONS ON THEM&quot;. that movie was technically wrong in everything, i mean WTF people are always talking about &quot;NOS BUTTONS&quot;, why did this movie have to be so retarded. it's cool to see people ge tinterested in imports, but i dont like to see a bunch of ignorant people talk shit like they know what they mean, and then look at you like you're stupid when you tell them what's up.

and im not doubting that your honda is very well done and non-ricey, i can respect hondas and have seen alot of good all-motor hondas out there. i recently saw some pics of a black hatch with SI mouldings and red recaro SDM's, a B18C5 with spoon parts, and black spoon rims. it was very well done. however im sick of hearing all this &quot;JDM this JDM that&quot; bullshit from honda guys. your car is JDM when the wheel is on the right, not just when you use some parts that are standard in japan, or available only there.

and yeah your car will beat most KA 240's but with a decent nitrous setup 200-220 FWHP wont cut it. can i see some pics of your civic or integra? i'd like to see what a good tuner can do with his car. and what are you going to do with your FD? something sweet like a big HKS t51 and an re-amemiya kit? go out and give those supras #### <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

[kitoro]

high 13s?
hmmm... stock SR20 does that in the 1/4 mile w/ a good driver and full boost (13-14psi)... (high 13s to low 14s)
man... you musta done some heavy mods to make that honda THAT fast.

it took a fully stripped prelude w/ big turbo and fully rebuilt engine, 1 seat and slicks to make 12 seconds here in calgary.. 'course our elevation is much higher than a place like California or Atlanta.... so the car would be much faster down there.
In calgary it takes quite a bit to make a honda go fast... like QUITE a bit. not impossible, but takes $$$

i commend u for a nicely built honda.

[Zenki Two40]

said this in another post:

the term rice is just so...childish. like little kids pointing at the other kids that don't dress like they do n calling them stupid. this is towards the term rice n why ppl use it so much. just sounds 2 immature to me n that ppl should grow up n learn to look at things a little different instead of hating everything that isn't theirs. i could understand if THE WHOLE CAR had rice written all over it, but if it's just one or a couple or things u might not like about it just keep it to urself cuz everyone will have different opinions. hmmm....i wonder why we don't all get the same mods for our cars?

[240enthusiast]

I hate ricey (For lack of a better term) cars as much as you guys do (Whether it be a Honda, Nissan, or Mitsu).

On the FD I was thinking RE Ameyia and keeping the twin turbo setup (Until i get tired of it).

[HondaOwner]

Hello all. First I would like to just start of saying that yes, I do own a Honda. It is an Accord with a H22A4 Prelude VTEC motor, and a NOS kit (Yes that is NOS as in Nitrous Oxide Systems, not as in F&amp;F).

Second, I am not here to talk any shit. I am a car enthusiast first, and a Honda driver second.

Third, their is some misinformation here on what goes in what on a Honda.

The S2000 motor is not a F20A, but an F20C.
The F20A is a motor from a Honda Accord SiR in Japan. It is &nbsp;DOHC VTEC. The Accord Euro R, formerly known as the Type R, comes with a tuned version of the H22A. I have the Japanese Print Accord brochure sitting in my house for those that do not believe this.

Fourth, I am a friend of 240enthusiast and his wife. I can tell you this, their car is quick. The motor is pretty much stock.

That is really all I had to say. Continue with your debate. I am enjoying reading it.

One more thing. Why does the Fast and the Furious always seem to get lumped with the Honda Crowd? I saw 240's, Skylines, Maxima's, Jetta's, RX-7's, Supras, and everything else in the movie. And they were all UGLY! LOL!

[Zenki Two40]

yeah, those cars were all way 2 overdone. i really wanna see what they do w/ part 2 now :biggrin: hey, i don't know what thread it was, but 240enthusiast tried to post her pic n it didn't work so i offered to post it so i thought i'd just post it in here.

240enthusiasts n son:
http://wsphotofews.excite.com/013/1s/dy/lZ/9433708.jpg

[HippoSleek]

Honda Owner - thanks for the correction on Accord engine codes. &nbsp;For the record, I only got the Euro R and SiR backwards (I never used A or C b/c I'm not that smart <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>). &nbsp;BTW: are you Big James? &nbsp;If so, you may occasionally see me around &quot;other places&quot; as I helped with the front knuckle project on 4doorH22's car last week. &nbsp;Thanks for your input.

[HondaOwner]

LOL. Yeah, that is me.

Hope I did not come off as a prick or anything.

[HippoSleek]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from HondaOwner on 9:20 am on Dec. 11, 2001
LOL. Yeah, that is me.

Hope I did not come off as a prick or anything.

</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
not at all, and I hope that the more level headed of us didn't either. &nbsp;Fact is fact... but sometimes there are The Facts and the Furious! <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'> &nbsp;(enthusiasts vs. fanatics)

[240enthusiast]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from HondaOwner on 11:20 am on Dec. 11, 2001
LOL. Yeah, that is me.

Hope I did not come off as a prick or anything.


</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

sweetheart... you are always a prick.. but that's not the point!!!!! J/K LOL.. what the #### are you doing here? &nbsp;Anyways call me or something. &nbsp;Maybe you and the girlfriend will come over again. &nbsp;H is laid up in the bed this time around for pulling some muscles or pinching a nerve... so we can just tickle him all night and listen to him say&quot;owww&quot;

[Rcs476]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from kitoro on 9:37 pm on Dec. 10, 2001
high 13s?
hmmm... stock SR20 does that in the 1/4 mile w/ a good driver and full boost (13-14psi)... (high 13s to low 14s)
man... you musta done some heavy mods to make that honda THAT fast.

it took a fully stripped prelude w/ big turbo and fully rebuilt engine, 1 seat and slicks to make 12 seconds here in calgary.. 'course our elevation is much higher than a place like California or Atlanta.... so the car would be much faster down there.
In calgary it takes quite a bit to make a honda go fast... like QUITE a bit. not impossible, but takes $$$

i commend u for a nicely built honda.
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

A Type R (B18C5 I think) engine in a 92-95 civic hatch, should be able to run 13's all day with basic bolt ons, I/H/E. Lightweight chassis and strong high revving engine that could easily beat 5.0 mustangs and other comparable cars. Top speed is a different story.

[BEISSEN]

second stage turbo eh beissen, and all this talk of nos, i guess you saw fast and furious one too many times. i guess now they have internet equipped computers in schools for &quot;special children&quot;?

Well &nbsp;mistert i have never seen fast and furios heard it was shitty,and where i the helll do you get off calling me a special child.I am not a child and havent been one for 2 years i am in college dumb ass and so i messed up info well lets see you say everything perfect.I have alot of stuff on my mind when i am typing in these forums like school.i am a web designer and i take breaks and come here to chat and see what is going on. I guess you are a mommy's boy hunh cus you sure do got alot of anger inside that seems to want to come out.

[AceInHole]

Since I'm new to these boards I sort of missed out on the body of the arguments.... &nbsp;but anyways here goes:
I picked this post since it seemed to have the most points to defend:
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from 240enthusiast on 4:40 pm on Dec. 10, 2001
The only reason I did a JDM ITR hybrid was because I needed a reliable car when I start my 3rd gen FD project.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
OT: It's sort of funny that he's implying the 3rd gen RX-7 FD's are unreliable......
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
I haven't read everything that was posted but I'll respond to some of the stuff that's been said.

Right now my car is a high 13 second quarter mile car. &nbsp;Yes I do believe that a SR20DEt equipped 240 will be a good run but it better have some mods on it. &nbsp;A stock SR20DET 240 will not beat me unless he is a #### good driver (Then it would be close).
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'> I'm not sure what you have on your car.... so I'll assume it's a stock JDM ITR engine in a civic?? (i should have made a note of the earlier page). &nbsp;I may be wrong but I was under the impression they ran mid 13's.... when you're comparing to a stock SR20DET you might want to note which SR20DET..... because I'm sorry to say that a GTI-R engine into an SE-R would pretty much walk the ITR engine in a Civic.... that said, I know the SR20DET is turbo'ed, and the ITR isn't.... but when turbo'ed, the SR will make more power than the ITR. &nbsp;Actually, we can even bring it USDM... a stock SR20DE in a 200sx SE-R can be boosted beyond 400HP and still be flogged at track events and drags... where's the 400+HP stock internal B18?? &nbsp;If there is one, I'd like to know, but when trying to find one I just couldn't. &nbsp;Take it over the the 240sx.... for the price of the JDM ITR engine and swap you could have a turbo'ed KA pushing 350hp on stock internals. Yes it's been done, and flogged beyond &quot;normal&quot; racing (i.e. rally, roadcourses, and daily driving... etc)
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
Of course anything with boost has the potential to be faster then my car with minor bolt ons. &nbsp;By the time I'm done with this car it will have 200-220 to the wheels naturally aspirated, be daily driveable, and will run high 12's low 13's.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'> but that high compression will not allow you to run the amount of boost an SR, KA, CA, or god forbid an FJ engine can. &nbsp;an SR, KA, or CA running boost at well over that 200-220 whp will be just as streetable, and IMO more reliable.
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
I also know that FWD cars aren't the platform of choice for drag racing but like i said I needed a reliable car while my wife starts her 240 project and I start my FD project.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'> &nbsp;which is why i was quicker to point out the 200sx in comparison instead of an S15 engine in an S12 coupe (or s13 coupe).
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
My car has no crazy graphics or crazy paint or anything. &nbsp;It looks stock (Even put a Civic DX on the back to fool people).

I'll say it again I respect any car that is quick. &nbsp;But don't let your love of Nissan and blind hate of Honda get you ass smoked (Be it @ the track, strip or auto-X course)
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
I'd just like to point out that Nissan engines have more potential and durability than Honda engines.... and that I do respect the Honda/Acura crowd. &nbsp;That said... a well tuned Honda holds nothing on a well tuned comparable Nissan.
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
Here's some flame bait:::::: &nbsp; Unless you have a turbo kit on the motor that comes with US 240 (KA24) you have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING FOR ME. &nbsp;</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>I'm guessing Sunbelt 250HP N/A KA24DE's aren't good enough huh.... &nbsp;I thought I read you had the JDM ITR engine???
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
I REPEAT:::::If your 240 has the KA24 motor in it and all you have is Intake and exhaust (Maybe even a shot of NOS or a header)..........Shhh!!!!! &nbsp;You shouldn't talk while grown folks is playin'

Flame retardent suit is on.....fire away.
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>For the record I haven't modified the engine on my S14 at all besides a cone filter.... yet. &nbsp;In a month I might have a good dyno sheet to share (assuming my welding skills hold @ around 50psi and extreme temps... get the picture?). &nbsp;I would say something about my old S13 but it basically doesn't exist anymore.... although the only honda it ever lost to was a CR-X with a B18 and some.. uh.... other things.....

[AceInHole]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from 240enthusiast on 12<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'>1 am on Dec. 8, 2001
There was a reason why they stopped making the 240... anyone remember why? </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
women and their bias against RWD

(Edited by AceInHole at 6<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'>5 pm on Dec. 12, 2001)

[jay]

As far as I am concerned if you have a hyrbid hatchback you can keep it. I personally think that you really cannot call that thing a sports car. I would compare it to putting a V8 in VW bug. Yeah anything that light with a 200hp engine will run circles around a 240. But how much room do you have in your car, how confortable is it? I have driven in a hatch and they are nowhere near confortable. You can have your suped up econo-box and I will keep my RWD 'sports' car that I can actually cruise in.

[AceInHole]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from jay on 6:28 pm on Dec. 12, 2001
As far as I am concerned if you have a hyrbid hatchback you can keep it. I personally think that you really cannot call that thing a sports car. I would compare it to putting a V8 in VW bug. Yeah anything that light with a 200hp engine will run circles around a 240. But how much room do you have in your car, how confortable is it? I have driven in a hatch and they are nowhere near confortable. You can have your suped up econo-box and I will keep my RWD 'sports' car that I can actually cruise in.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'> &nbsp;I don't think it would run circles around a 240.... and I don't think a Civic HB has any less room than a 240sx does.... my experience in the Civic is that I personally don't like the interior at all, but it's just an opinion. &nbsp;As for calling it a sports car, it's a compact car packaged with accessories and equipment that tend towards performance (i.e. Si and Type R) then it's at least a sports compact car. &nbsp;
Apples and Oranges... and a matter of preferences.

[crazycuban]

so what makes the 240sx so much more of a &quot;sports car&quot; than the civic si or teg type r? &nbsp;rwd? &nbsp;this is just my opinion, of course, but it takes more than that to make a sports car. &nbsp;our car is a compact-car with rwd configuration. &nbsp;2 seater? &nbsp;no. &nbsp;multi-faceted? &nbsp;not really...love the handling, but it takes a ka turbo or an sr to make it especially balanced. &nbsp;
so if our car is a sports car, what is the celica gt-s? &nbsp;its fwd, but (and i just sold mine, a gt, but gt's have the same suspension - i know) the celica handles #### near close to how the 240sx handles, saving the fact that it has mild oversteer instead of mild understeer. &nbsp;its faster too.
like i said, just my opinion, but it takes more than rwd to make a compact coupe a sports car.

[Drifting Ricer]

#### too much reading.... I don't have much to add. I think (my very bias opinion) That all this Honda Vs everyone thing would stop if get real sports cars like WRX (j) Evo VII (j) GTR (j) and so many others.

[jay]

The hatchbacks that typically get b16 or b18 motors are 92 to 95 vx, cx, or dx. Those are the ones I am talking about. No where in my post did I mention si's or type r's. I said 'hybrid' civics... And yes all those 'hybrid' civics are are econo-boxes with suped up engines in them. Even Si's are pretty lame. But I do respect the SiR and Type R don't get me wrong there. A civic hatchback is not meant to be a sports car rather a grocery getter. IMHO.

[AceInHole]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from jay on 8:46 pm on Dec. 12, 2001
Even Si's are pretty lame. But I do respect the SiR and Type R don't get me wrong there. A civic hatchback is not meant to be a sports car rather a grocery getter. IMHO.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
It's my understanding that the Civic SiR is just the canadian version of the Si

[Takumi]

SiR = B16 equipped Civics, CRX's, Del Sols in Japan as well as the 1999-2000 Civic Si in Canada
SiR-G = Integra GS-R in Japan

[jay]

Correct me if I am wrong but I do beleive the SiR has a 180hp motor + better suspension and the Si has a 160hp.

[240enthusiast]

I'll reply to some of Acein the holes responses (They may not be in order).
1) I was implying that FD is more unreliable simply because I now how little it takes to make the motor go bye bye. I plan on making it as reliable as possible but if if has some downtime then @ least I have quick fun car to drive around.

2) My comment was based on the SR20DET's that come out of the Japanese Silvia's and then put into a USDM 240. I think stock for stock that it would be a very good run.

3) I'm not sure what motor you are talking about (Referring to sunbelt motors) but how many fast N/A KA24 motors do see running around doing low 14's high 13's. I have not seen one in my area. There a few fast 240's but they either have swaps (Silvia SR20) or turbo's on the KA24.

4)Interior is a preference thing. I've like visibility in Integra's and Civic's. Sat in a 240, wasn't really me. Space wise I felt my Integra had more space then the 240 and I also feel like my Civic has the same or a little more space....so again that is subjective.


5) Never said that the Civic is a sports car. Its a sport compact and that's what 240's are consider's as well. Even the WRX and EVO VII are consider'd sport compacts.

6) If I wanted to I could put a supercharger or turbo on my car and then give a SR20 swap a run. Especially if it was top end racing. I simply want to build a (As you guys put it) &quot;econo box&quot; so I can get my son from school, pick up the groceries and wax the guy @ the light that thinks; &quot;whatever its just a civic&quot;.

7) I've only spent a little over 9 grand for my project so far. To tell you the truth I was considering a SR20 swap but I'd want to do a S14 which after I priced it out would have been more then what I wanted spend. Besides I still wanted a dependable NA car just in case. I'll limiting myself on purpose because this is not project I want to go all out for.

This is not a flame and please don't take anything I've said personal. I enjoy speaking to people from other automotive worlds and sharing/recieving knowledge.

I can't remember anything else that you touched on fro manyof my previous posts but please respond.

Thanks.

PS: And BTW for the poster that said women don't like RWD. My wife happens to actually prefer it. She was just using the point that 240 sales wern't the greatest (Hence why the hacked for the US) as a point.

Oh and just for confusions sake was originally talking about a KA24 motor (With the regular boltons.....no this does not mean a turbo) or the SR20DET (With everything it needs to run properly, not upgraded turbo etc, whatever it came fro mthe factory with).

man this is a good debate i like to see this stuff <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>

[DSC]

Yeah, I was just shareing a weird story one night <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'> Didn't think it would turn into a honda vs whatever debate, but its been good reading so far. I'm happy to see that we aren't attacking eachother personally much either, just attack their car not their mom <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>

[HondaOwner]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from AceInHole on 6<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'>2 pm on Dec. 12, 2001
a stock SR20DE in a 200sx SE-R can be boosted beyond 400HP and still be flogged at track events and drags... where's the 400+HP stock internal B18??
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

I do beleive he said a STOCK SR20, not one that is boosting a much higher than stock psi.

[DuffMan]

I think stock for stock Nissan is pretty competitive. The SR20VE is making like 200hp with no turbo, similar to a JDM Integra Type S.

The difference is Honda brings over all their cool stuff, while Nissan brings over pretty much nothing, except the Z, and even then it hasn't had the same engine for the past couple generations.

[HondaOwner]

Good Lord! I wish Honda brought over all it's cool stuff! They don't give us shit either. Although, we are not as crewed as the Nissan guys. You have gotten shafted.

Let's see, what cool stuff do we not get?

NSX Type-R
Accord Type R/Euro R
Accord SiR-T
Accord Si w/ AWD (yep all wheel drive Honda!)
Civic Type R
RSX Type R
Prelude Type S

So we are pretty much shafted too. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':('>

[jay]

Yeah, if I start adding cars to the &quot;US cars get screwed over&quot; list I will get depressed... <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':('>

[HondaOwner]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from jay on 7:32 am on Dec. 13, 2001
Yeah, if I start adding cars to the &quot;US cars get screwed over&quot; list I will get depressed... <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':('></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

We need to make a list, just to see. Add every manufactureer and car anyone can think of that we got screwed on.

Of course, some of the more mentally unstable members, myself included, might do something drastic then!

[crazycuban]

the sr20ve isn't too common though (i don't even know if they make it at all), so it's more fair to compare it to the integra (rsx) type r engine, which has 220 hp. &nbsp;nissan has turbo on lockdown, but i'm sorry, u have to give honda props for what they do naturally aspirated. &nbsp;think about it this way - the s14 sr20det made 220 hp off 2.0 liters, with a turbo. &nbsp;the k20? (whatever the new teg type r engine is) makes 220 hp off 2.0 liters, without a turbo.

[ca18guy]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from DuffMan on 6:59 am on Dec. 13, 2001
I think stock for stock Nissan is pretty competitive. The SR20VE is making like 200hp with no turbo, similar to a JDM Integra Type S.
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

Makes 187 HP @7000, 145 @6000, kinda peaky but not bad, think it comes on the Primeria in Japan.

[240enthusiast]

Car's we should be don't get
1) S15 Silvia
2) Toyota Supra
3) RX-7
4) Lancer EVO VII
5) JDM 2002 WRX
6) RSX Type R
7) 2002 Civic Type R
8) Renault Clio 24v V6
9) Euro M3
10) Skyline (Any year any model)


Those are my Top 10. &nbsp;I can't think of any more. &nbsp;The have hatchbacks from #### in Britian. &nbsp;I don't even know the names to some of them. &nbsp;

[AceInHole]

I'm really hating these small response boxes.... LoL
Sorry if I miss out on anything:
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from 240enthusiast on 12:15 am on Dec. 13, 2001I'll reply to some of Acein the holes note: that's AceInHole <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'> responses (They may not be in order).
1) I was implying that FD is more unreliable simply because I now how little it takes to make the motor go bye bye. I plan on making it as reliable as possible but if if has some downtime then @ least I have quick fun car to drive around.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
LoL. &nbsp;It was just a side comment. &nbsp;This kid I know with a twin turbo FD virtually never drives it.... compared to someone like me, who flogs his car through dirt roads (and knocks rocks into his cat so it rattles now &gt;_&lt; ) seriously, a stock ITR would be real cool to have as a grocery getter <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'>
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
2) My comment was based on the SR20DET's that come out of the Japanese Silvia's and then put into a USDM 240. I think stock for stock that it would be a very good run.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
but you could put an S15 engine into a base model s13 coupe.... ~250HP, ~2600 lbs....
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
3) I'm not sure what motor you are talking about (Referring to sunbelt motors) but how many fast N/A KA24 motors do see running around doing low 14's high 13's. I have not seen one in my area. There a few fast 240's but they either have swaps (Silvia SR20) or turbo's on the KA24.
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'> Sunbelt builds racing engines for track use.... don't ever recall them doing any drag work.
The reason most people turbo the KA instead of an NA buildup is simply because the KA block is so strong it can handle it. &nbsp;bar is set at 320rwhp and rising on stock internals....
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
4)Interior is a preference thing. I've like visibility in Integra's and Civic's. Sat in a 240, wasn't really me. Space wise I felt my Integra had more space then the 240 and I also feel like my Civic has the same or a little more space....so again that is subjective.
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'> true. &nbsp;I really didn't like the Civic much. &nbsp;The integra I can deal with, but for some reason I like the 94-97 Accords more. &nbsp;Maybe it's just me.....
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
5) Never said that the Civic is a sports car. Its a sport compact and that's what 240's are consider's as well. Even the WRX and EVO VII are consider'd sport compacts.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'> i thought I said that too.... &nbsp;although the 240 is on the border of being a sports car... lord knows that my insurance is higher than my friend's saturn wagon... <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'>
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
6) If I wanted to I could put a supercharger or turbo on my car and then give a SR20 swap a run. Especially if it was top end racing. I simply want to build a (As you guys put it) &quot;econo box&quot; so I can get my son from school, pick up the groceries and wax the guy @ the light that thinks; &quot;whatever its just a civic&quot;.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'> i do think Hondas are reliable cars. &nbsp;I just don't see them as reliable when pushed. &nbsp;I suppose in your case you're not pushing the engine, so...... &nbsp;LoL... it definitely suprised me back when I had my S13 to encounter a CR-X with chrome hubcaps and weird stickers.... to find that that car had a B18 in it.....
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
7) I've only spent a little over 9 grand for my project so far. To tell you the truth I was considering a SR20 swap but I'd want to do a S14 which after I priced it out would have been more then what I wanted spend. Besides I still wanted a dependable NA car just in case. I'll limiting myself on purpose because this is not project I want to go all out for.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'> &nbsp;that's definitely respectible... like you said you have the FD to thrash around. &nbsp;Personally I think an SE-R could have been had and turbo'ed for that much.....
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
This is not a flame and please don't take anything I've said personal. I enjoy speaking to people from other automotive worlds and sharing/recieving knowledge.

I can't remember anything else that you touched on fro manyof my previous posts but please respond.

Thanks.
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'> &nbsp;Baah. I'll never take any offense. I'm always looking for more info. &nbsp;I wish I could find a good high HP figure for a stock internal Honda engine but I can't, so I have nothing to compare my high SR and high KA numbers to. &nbsp;I'm actually doing something on the NICO boards where I'm arguing Honda over the 240sx...

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
PS: And BTW for the poster that said women don't like RWD. My wife happens to actually prefer it. She was just using the point that 240 sales wern't the greatest (Hence why the hacked for the US) as a point.
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'> definitely no offense to women meant by my statement, but the idea that women were afraid of RWD seems to have been prevailant in the minds of insurance companies and carmakers, and women make up the majority of new car sales (a good reason why cars are tending to be &quot;cuter&quot;). &nbsp;men have the image (reasonably) that buying a used car is better to go faster with. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'>
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
Oh and just for confusions sake was originally talking about a KA24 motor (With the regular boltons.....no this does not mean a turbo) or the SR20DET (With everything it needs to run properly, not upgraded turbo etc, whatever it came fro mthe factory with).
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
what about my engine then?? no real bolt ons yet but i'm in the process of turbocharging it (i bet a few people I could do it for under $1000, and i just got my carbon steel piping to make my manifold today <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'> )
It's probably all relative to how much of an enthusiast you are.. since some of us can weld up pieces like that (or die trying) and some can't....


On a side note... this turbo that I'm working on now was going to go onto an '89 Accord that I would have gotten for free. &nbsp;Too bad my loser sister dumped that guy <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':('> &nbsp;LoL. &nbsp;I guess it's all fun and games till someone loses a boyfriend.....