Connecticut Elementary School Shooting

[enkei2k]

WTF

Elementary school massacre: 26 dead, including 18 kids, in Connecticut - U.S. News (http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12/14/15907407-elementary-school-massacre-26-dead-including-18-kids-in-connecticut?lite)

Elementary school students, man...super depressing.

I don't know all the details though...

[flatout]

Yea this is really sad. I don't understand what possess people to do shit like this. My thoughts and prayers go out to all the families that lost a child today

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

[2tonecoupegrl]

Just heard about this from my Cuz.... another pure example as to why my kids are having home school.

Payers and thoughts to the ones involved :(

[Bobafreak]

Shit like this needs to stop. Another reason why mass shootings need to result to higher gun regulations. INNOCENT kids! Elementary at that. They are scarred for life. 18 of them killed were kids..... This disgust me.

[badbob2121]

Prayers to all the families involved.

This makes me sick..

[Bobafreak]

Seriously this world is coming to shit by the day.

[future]

We live in a fucked country in a fucked up world

[Dutchmalmiss]

Prayers to the families in CT.

I'm thinking a fingerprint-activated gun (James Bond idea) would be a way to cut down on things like this. But bven regulated gun control won't be able to fix this.

[uraznfriend]

Those innocent kids were probably really happy that they survived the end of the world. But guess not. These assholes just gotta fuck it all up.

[Juantwo3]

as a parent this really hurts even though there not my kids i would lose my mind if this happend to my son , my thoughts are out to those kids and familys that were the victims of those cowards.

[Mofuhcka]

This shit even had Obama fighting tears when he was on TV earlier. So sad. Dude killed his mother (who was a teacher at the school) and then went and shot 18 kids and 8 teachers. My thoughts are with everyone affected

Edit: Police chief just said 20 kids, 6 teachers, and the gunman. These kids were 5-10 man fuck this world

[EjMalernee]

My prayers go out to the families.

[reallygood101]

heart breaking stuff, very sad i wouldnt know wat i would do if i was in that situation with my son or nephews and nieces, my prayers go out to all the families that lost a loved one, very hard to put into words how im feeling rite now

[Highway Riding]

Anger is all i can feel right now. Fawkin BS that innocent children who can't defend themselves had to be part of his demise..

[Dutchmalmiss]

Seriously wish there was a place worse than Hell for people like this.

To be honest, wtf would be the best way to prevent things like this from happening?

[MadScientist]

This is beyond words sad.

However lets be clear this is not a Gun Control Issue.
Its a Mental Health, and Denial Issue!!

The Gov. can't control drug trade, so how do you think they are going to stop weapons trade? Its up to the Weapons Manufactures to advance the technology!
The guy had a 223 bushmaster, Glock, and Sig... I bet he didn't own or have registration/ permits for any of them eather! Just like the Mall shooting a few days ago!

This is crazy sad, but don't twist the truth.

And if you want to Opt-Out, don't take anyone else with you!!!!

[Bobafreak]

Seriously wish there was a place worse than Hell for people like this.

To be honest, wtf would be the best way to prevent things like this from happening?
You cant. Turns out this guy was casing the joint beforehand.
This is beyond words sad.

However lets be clear this is not a Gun Control Issue.
Its a Mental Health, and Denial Issue!!

The Gov. can't control drug trade, so how do you think they are going to stop weapons trade? Its up to the Weapons Manufactures to advance the technology!
The guy had a 223 bushmaster, Glock, and Sig... I bet he didn't own or have registration/ permits for any of them eather! Just like the Mall shooting a few days ago!

This is crazy sad, but don't twist the truth.

And if you want to Opt-Out, don't take anyone else with you!!!!
Our society is ill. Job security, family & and social structures... all have been falling... this is the result. You could jail all the guns in the country and the illness would remain. There HAS to be some effort to get to the root causes of this kind of behavior.

[kandyflip445]

as a parent this really hurts even though there not my kids i would lose my mind if this happend to my son , my thoughts are out to those kids and familys that were the victims of those cowards.

Having two kids myself it makes me feel sad and angry at the same time thinking about what just happened. Nobody should have to bury their own children, let alone for something as disgusting as this.

[K_style]

This is very F'd up stuff... we just had gun shooting here in Oregon last weekend..

WTF!!!

[Bobafreak]

This is very F'd up stuff... we just had gun shooting here in Oregon last weekend..

WTF!!!
I know i remember seeing that and im actually flying out there this coming up week. For 4 days to Portland. But i live in L.A. Not to be off topic whats some good places to go to? whether bar or entertainment? someone mentioned this donut shop to check out.... forgot the name already... something unique...

[jamg]

there was also a man in china, he stabbed 22 kids.

middle fingers up to the world.

[Bobafreak]

Yea i was going to post about it but i think this is enough.

[STL240SXDRIFT]

Its from 18 to now 20 little kids died.

USA TODAY: Latest World and US News - USATODAY.com (http://www.usatoday.com/)

I WISH I had 20mins alone with guy and a few tools from the garage...what a peice of shit!!!

[Flicktitty]

I WISH I had 20mins alone with guy and a few tools from the garage...what a peice of shit!!!

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120127130835/doblaje/es/images/0/0c/Dominic_Toretto.jpg

sorry had to.

I pick my disabled nephew up from school every day, he is in the 3rd grade it's unthinkable that someone could do something like this.

[1 88 U]

I hate to politicize this but even as a responsible gun owner myself, it's time to break the NRA. Their fear mongering and control over the republican party and democrats by extension of fear is making it impossible to discuss US gun laws and reach any type of solutions that will help curb gun violence.

[S14DB]

Schools are Gun Free Zones. Why wouldn't he respect the law like everyone else? Oh wait criminals could give a shit about gun laws.

[Matej]

Gun people always turn these threads into arguments.
It is too soon to spread propaganda.

[1 88 U]

Schools are Gun Free Zones. Why wouldn't he respect the law like everyone else? Oh wait criminals could give a shit about gun laws.

Just saying, I'd gladly trade the security of knowing a home intruder would be met by my Remington 870 with the knowledge that my country had 11 gun deaths last year.

A Land Without Guns: How Japan Has Virtually Eliminated Shooting Deaths - Max Fisher - The Atlantic (http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/07/a-land-without-guns-how-japan-has-virtually-eliminated-shooting-deaths/260189/)

[S14DB]

Just saying, I'd gladly trade the security of knowing a home intruder would be met by my Remington 870 with the knowledge that my country had 11 gun deaths last year.

A Land Without Guns: How Japan Has Virtually Eliminated Shooting Deaths - Max Fisher - The Atlantic (http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/07/a-land-without-guns-how-japan-has-virtually-eliminated-shooting-deaths/260189/)
Crime in Japan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Japan)

Somewhat cultural. I would look more at country's closer to ours.

The Captain's Journal » Do Gun Bans Reduce Violent Crime? Ask the Aussies and Brits (http://www.captainsjournal.com/2012/07/23/do-gun-bans-reduce-violent-crime-ask-the-aussies-and-brits/)

2nd amendment is a response to British gun laws of the time.

[Matej]

The Captain's Journal » Do Gun Bans Reduce Violent Crime? Ask the Aussies and Brits (http://www.captainsjournal.com/2012/07/23/do-gun-bans-reduce-violent-crime-ask-the-aussies-and-brits/)

2nd amendment is a response to British gun laws of the time.
One would be stupid to expect an immediate drop in gun-related crime when there are already tons of guns and ammo floating around.

[MadScientist]

Well in response to my last... Its been confirmed that the Mother was the owner of the weapons used!!

[Matej]

Schools are Gun Free Zones. Why wouldn't he respect the law like everyone else? Oh wait criminals could give a shit about gun laws.
There is a difference between a criminal and a crazy person.

I doubt if some suburban kid did not have easy access to a gun, he would be willing and able to go through highly illegal channels which would lead to bad repercussions if caught, so he could go shoot up a kindergarten. Perhaps he would still end up killing his mom with a knife or something when he ends up snapping, but there would be no twenty children caught in the crossfire, unless he really wanted those kids dead for some reason.

In the long run, or if no civilian ever had guns in the first place, it would be nowhere near as easy for a criminal to obtain a gun as everyone makes it sound. Almost all of the 'illegal' guns used by petty criminals to shoot innocent people actually made into circulation through legal means.
Thus more than likely the only criminals who would have the means to 'easily' obtain guns unlawfully would be members of organized crime. And the individuals at such level do not use the guns to shoot up random innocent people or rob houses, as they aim much higher, and generally use them against each other.

[MadScientist]

There was no Crossfire... the mother was killer in her home, where the weapons were obtained.
The school was secondary and held no meaning, other than its was where his mother taught.
I see it ironic that the Principal and Psychiatrist was killed!

The Guns were legaly obtained. However not properly secured!

[2tonecoupegrl]

Still watching coverage of this and its really heart breaking :(

[fliprayzin240sx]

WTF is wrong with this world...

As far as gun control, not gonna do jack and shit. Sure you might be able to stop a handful of lunatic like this idiot from obtaining a gun legally but you still have the black market/stolen gun trade.

[Corbic]

There is a difference between a criminal and a crazy person.

I doubt if some suburban kid did not have easy access to a gun, he would be willing and able to go through highly illegal channels which would lead to bad repercussions if caught, so he could go shoot up a kindergarten.

Cocaine is grown in South America and highly illegal with huge penalties and jail terms associated with it. Any suburban teen can get it if they want too.

Heroin is grown in Afghanistan, a war torn nation thousands of miles away. It has to cross countless boarders and inspection points as well as the Atlantic ocean. You can get it in any city.

I doubt this guy was worried about violating gun laws and what may happen if he got caught trying to get guns.


Also, crazy people will do crazy shit one way or the other.

Attacked kids with a knife -
BBC News - China school knife attack in Henan injures 22 children (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-20723910)

Used a knife -

September 11 attacks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11_attacks)

[Corbic]

WTF is wrong with this world...

As far as gun control, not gonna do jack and shit. Sure you might be able to stop a handful of lunatic like this idiot from obtaining a gun legally but you still have the black market/stolen gun trade.

Not to mention the internet to teach you how to make improvised explosives, automobiles, knives ect ect.

[Corbic]

In the long run, or if no civilian ever had guns in the first place, it would be nowhere near as easy for a criminal to obtain a gun as everyone makes it sound. Almost all of the 'illegal' guns used by petty criminals to shoot innocent people actually made into circulation through legal means.
Thus more than likely the only criminals who would have the means to 'easily' obtain guns unlawfully would be members of organized crime. And the individuals at such level do not use the guns to shoot up random innocent people or rob houses, as they aim much higher, and generally use them against each other.

Where do you draw the line? There are Englishmen that want to ban "combat" and kitchen knives..

BBC NEWS | Health | Doctors' kitchen knives ban call (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4581871.stm)

These guys didn't use firearms...
10 Worst Serial Killers of All Time (http://homesecurity.net/serial-killers/)

[Bmxer300zx]

Cocaine is grown in South America and highly illegal with huge penalties and jail terms associated with it. Any suburban teen can get it if they want too.

Heroin is grown in Afghanistan, a war torn nation thousands of miles away. It has to cross countless boarders and inspection points as well as the Atlantic ocean. You can get it in any city.

I doubt this guy was worried about violating gun laws and what may happen if he got caught trying to get guns.


Also, crazy people will do crazy shit one way or the other.

Attacked kids with a knife -
BBC News - China school knife attack in Henan injures 22 children (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-20723910)

Used a knife -

September 11 attacks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11_attacks)

spoken perfectly
If a sick bastard wants a gun, HE WILL GET ONE! I can get information via google on how to make a bomb outa chemicals around my house all it takes is a sick prick to take and use it.

There was a sicko running around the city with a bow shooting people in the chest with arrows, that mean we should ban those too?
.
what about people who plow over others with their car? and drive drunk and take out a family? Ban cars as well?
.
Look at all the illegal drugs, WOW thats working good gimme 200$ dollars i'll come back in a hour with 5 different flavors in the city.
.
point is it takes a sick fuck to get a gun and aim it at a child and pull the trigger and a bigger coward to end his life via suicide after. If he couldn't get a gun that day due to a "law" he woulda eventually if not resorted to other means to hurt people.

[Grenade180sx]

In the long run, or if no civilian ever had guns in the first place, it would be nowhere near as easy for a criminal to obtain a gun as everyone makes it sound. Almost all of the 'illegal' guns used by petty criminals to shoot innocent people actually made into circulation through legal means.
Thus more than likely the only criminals who would have the means to 'easily' obtain guns unlawfully would be members of organized crime. And the individuals at such level do not use the guns to shoot up random innocent people or rob houses, as they aim much higher, and generally use them against each other.

So why are we blaming a inanimate object for this? the gun didnt wake up this morning and say" lets go shoot people".

and by banning firearms, criminals/psychopaths/whatever you want to call them

will still get firearms,or will use other means to create destruction. look at the person who stabbed 22 children in china this week with a knife.

hey you cant have a firearm in china, but that seemed to save people right?

[1 88 U]

How is 22 children injured equal 20 children dead? Pause and think about that for a minute.

Crazy person in the US with a gun kills 26 people.

Crazy person in China with a knife injures 22.

[BOROSUN]

the only way to stop crazy ppl with guns is people with guns.

[rb25_s13*CHUKI]

We live in a fucked country in a fucked up world

our country is hardly fucked in any way, You do not know what goes on in other countries. Our country is a cake walk in la la land compared to most other countries

[BossHogg]

This is beyond words sad.

However lets be clear this is not a Gun Control Issue.
Its a Mental Health, and Denial Issue!!

The Gov. can't control drug trade, so how do you think they are going to stop weapons trade? Its up to the Weapons Manufactures to advance the technology!
The guy had a 223 bushmaster, Glock, and Sig... I bet he didn't own or have registration/ permits for any of them eather! Just like the Mall shooting a few days ago!

This is crazy sad, but don't twist the truth.

And if you want to Opt-Out, don't take anyone else with you!!!!

100% agree. Drugs/guns whatever. You want it, you can find it. You can't just ban guns from the public.....crime will skyrocket because there is 0% to fear. I forget what country attempted this (New Zealand?) and shit hit the fan real fast. Home invasions and robbery jumped up like 75% or some shit. I can't remember.

The sole reason I conceal and carry. Things like this. Malls, movie theaters, etc.

[BossHogg]

In the long run, or if no civilian ever had guns in the first place, it would be nowhere near as easy for a criminal to obtain a gun as everyone makes it sound. Almost all of the 'illegal' guns used by petty criminals to shoot innocent people actually made into circulation through legal means.
Thus more than likely the only criminals who would have the means to 'easily' obtain guns unlawfully would be members of organized crime. And the individuals at such level do not use the guns to shoot up random innocent people or rob houses, as they aim much higher, and generally use them against each other.

interesting theory, to bad you're wrong. That is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. If you think that is how simple it would be, well.... I wont insult your intelligence.

here you go. Hope it doesn't happen to you. I mean it is your answer.
Violent Crime Increased When Countries Banned Guns (http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/index.php?Article_ID=6740)

Your logic is flawed. /fps russia "Have nice day"

[fliprayzin240sx]

our country is hardly fucked in any way, You do not know what goes on in other countries. Our country is a cake walk in la la land compared to most other countries

But for a 1st world country, we are pretty fucked. I wouldnt live in the states if I can help it...and before any of you fucks says "well GTFO", trust me, I'm trying.

Shit like this makes me wanna be a pro-advocate of suicide. Fuck suicide prevention. If you wanna kill yourself, just go kill yourself and dont take anybody else with you. Sure hell, not 20 fucking kids who doesnt know any better!!!

[all show no go]

Shit like this makes me wanna be a pro-advocate of suicide. Fuck suicide prevention. If you wanna kill yourself, just go kill yourself and dont take anybody else with you.

QFT. For fucks sake, targeting the most innocent of all.

[future]

Don't know if its been posted but now up to 20 kids dead and 7 adults last I heard

[brewster240]

The Guns were legaly obtained. However not properly secured!


how is stealing the guns from his mother getting them legally?

my dad has guns. they are not mine. if you know someone who has guns, and take them, they are not yours to use freely. that is not a legal way to obtain a gun.

[towlie]

Bushmaster .223

Sig sauer

And a glock


For fucking killing children

[MadScientist]

You miss understood what I was pointing out, but I see your point.

My point is that they belong to the Mother, whom was the first casualty, and she obtained the weapons legaly. Had she secured the weapons properly, she may have been the only casualty, if at all.
Why she had such weapons to begin with, ___???
Had the son obtained the weapons by any other illegal means, then this could be a greater case for gun control!
Which it is not!!
This is a Mental Health issue, and those around him were in Denial.

[sil80owner]

This world is a hell.

[DRIFTER-M]

Seriously wish there was a place worse than Hell for people like this.

To be honest, wtf would be the best way to prevent things like this from happening?

If you read the Bible, and are a spiritual Christian (which I feel you must have some knolwegde as you used a certain place for reference), you will know there is no such thing worse.

If you want to fix events like this, our country and our world need to stop being so immoral.

Regardless of your feelings towards Christianity, this is all fortold in the bible. It clearly speaks of the future of the world becoming darker and darker because of how immoral we become.

We teach kids safe sex, not about NOT having sex. We let our children watch killing, simulate killing, while parents have become selfish and neglectful of their job as a parent of monitoring their children. We try to make an excuse for every criminal. The media likes to twist stories and create more grief for the $, not caring about the ripple effect following. We have become tolerant of drug use, we have become tolerant of so many things... it is unimaginable what will be tolerated by the time we are parents, or grandparents. Where does it end?

We are certainly an accepting world, FAR to accepting. That is our problem. Fix it, fix the problem.

[brewster240]

You miss understood what I was pointing out, but I see your point.

My point is that they belong to the Mother, whom was the first casualty, and she obtained the weapons legaly. Had she secured the weapons properly, she may have been the only casualty, if at all.
Why she had such weapons to begin with, ___???
Had the son obtained the weapons by any other illegal means, then this could be a greater case for gun control!
Which it is not!!
This is a Mental Health issue, and those around him were in Denial.

she had them because she wanted them.

why are you into nissan 240s? you could just as easily drive a prius.

people that own nissan 240s are dangerous street drifters and kill people street racing. outlaw 240s. oh, your brother got a dui? well then you shouldnt have a car.

:picardfp:

[Grenade180sx]

You miss understood what I was pointing out, but I see your point.

My point is that they belong to the Mother, whom was the first casualty, and she obtained the weapons legaly. Had she secured the weapons properly, she may have been the only casualty, if at all.
Why she had such weapons to begin with, ___???
Had the son obtained the weapons by any other illegal means, then this could be a greater case for gun control!
Which it is not!!
This is a Mental Health issue, and those around him were in Denial.

Now your speculating the weapons weren't secure,

As a firearm owner myself I have more then 1 firearm, what's the issue with owning more then one.

Drifter M

Don't turn this into religious crap, evil people existed since the dawn of man and will always be there no matter what laws are put into place. You know what the first assault weapons were? Rocks and sticks

The only way to help prevent more is speak up when people act different, but everyone's to busy to notice others till its too late.

[yoozef]

not for or against it (i actually plan on applying for a firearm permit soon) but your source is biased... if you want to make a point, use a reliable source... a quick look at the wikipedia page of Mr. John R. Lott Jr. discredits your source completely... On the other hand when was the last time you've heard of a mass shooting in any of the countries that have gun controls in place?
interesting theory, to bad you're wrong. That is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. If you think that is how simple it would be, well.... I wont insult your intelligence.

here you go. Hope it doesn't happen to you. I mean it is your answer.
Violent Crime Increased When Countries Banned Guns (http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/index.php?Article_ID=6740)

Your logic is flawed. /fps russia "Have nice day"

[brewster240]

On the other hand when was the last time you've heard of a mass shooting in any of the countries that have gun controls in place?

some of the strictest gun control:

U.K. shooter blasted many victims in face - World news - Europe | NBC News (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37483941/ns/world_news-europe/t/uk-shooter-blasted-many-victims-face/#.UMxAgXexRuQ)

BBC News | EUROPE | 18 dead in German school shooting (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/1952869.stm)

Jokela school shooting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jokela_school_shooting)

Winnenden school shooting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winnenden_school_shooting)

do you need more examples? there are plenty

[DRIFTER-M]

Now your speculating the weapons weren't secure,

As a firearm owner myself I have more then 1 firearm, what's the issue with owning more then one.

Drifter M

Don't turn this into religious crap, evil people existed since the dawn of man and will always be there no matter what laws are put into place. You know what the first assault weapons were? Rocks and sticks

The only way to help prevent more is speak up when people act different, but everyone's to busy to notice others till its too late.

My point was not to turn this into a religious debate near as much as a moral debate.

I think if you were not predisposed to me being religious, you would realize our views are similar. I agree,we have became lazy as a society. I believe it starts with parenting.

People always like to throw in that the world has always been a bad place, which in some regard is true. But to think that we are not becoming.more desensitized I think is walking blindly. It is clear, even in my life span, that people have become less caring, less respecting of elders and neighbors, selfish, among many other things.

We need to start caring again.

[EnemyS15]

The true definition of a coward. Rage against your mom so you take out your family and then decide to continue your rage onto innocent children. Once he was done, he realized a shit storm was coming (in the form of trained guns) and decided to off himself like a pussy would. I get angry just thinking about it.

What we need is to reform Cwp regulations and appoint certain school officials as Cwp , not to be heros, but to possibly change the outcome of an event like this or to be able to protect who he/she can. . People will kill in maniacal, monstrous, and evil ways regardless of what tool you decide to control. Take away guns, they'll use a knife. Take away a knife, threyll use a bomb, take away a bomb, they'll burn the place down. That pussy will burn in hell and suffer while those innocent souls will be at peace.

I'll tell you what. Had it been my child in that school and that fucker was caught... I would say good bye to my family and loved ones and make it my sole purpose to kill that man. I would be ready to spend the rest of my life behind bars, smiling, knowing that monster will not get the satisfaction of living while my childs life was taken.

[Corbic]

our country is hardly fucked in any way, You do not know what goes on in other countries. Our country is a cake walk in la la land compared to most other countries

Exactly
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-17426313
Beslan school hostage crisis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beslan_school_hostage_crisis)

[Corbic]

How is 22 children injured equal 20 children dead? Pause and think about that for a minute.

Crazy person in the US with a gun kills 26 people.

Crazy person in China with a knife injures 22.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/23/world/europe/23oslo.html?pagewanted=all

[1 88 U]

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/23/world/europe/23oslo.html?pagewanted=all

Breivik took years to plan out his attack. He spent about € 317,000 with nine credit cards for the attack, started planning for it in 2002, set up a fake geofarm company in 2009, acquired illegal weapons in Prague due to being denied service in the Norwegian military due to being declared mentally unfit in the same year, wrote a thousand page manifesto explaining his plan, and prepared and tested his bomb in the Norwegian wilderness after buying a farm a month before his attack.

The asshole here in Connecticut stole the guns from his mom to carrying out his terrorist attack, and had no fucking motive at all.

That's what separates our mass murderers from the Breiviks of the world, the Breiviks take years and are rare.

[1 88 U]

Homicide - Firearms Research - Harvard Injury Control Research Center - Harvard School of Public Health (http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/research/hicrc/firearms-research/guns-and-death/index.html)

1. Where there are more guns there is more homicide (literature review).

Our review of the academic literature found that a broad array of evidence indicates that gun availability is a risk factor for homicide, both in the United States and across high-income countries. Case-control studies, ecological time-series and cross-sectional studies indicate that in homes, cities, states and regions in the US, where there are more guns, both men and women are at higher risk for homicide, particularly firearm homicide.

Hepburn, Lisa; Hemenway, David. Firearm availability and homicide: A review of the literature. Aggression and Violent Behavior: A Review Journal. 2004; 9:417-40.


2. Across high-income nations, more guns = more homicide.

We analyzed the relationship between homicide and gun availability using data from 26 developed countries from the early 1990s. We found that across developed countries, where guns are more available, there are more homicides. These results often hold even when the United States is excluded.

Hemenway, David; Miller, Matthew. Firearm availability and homicide rates across 26 high income countries. Journal of Trauma. 2000; 49:985-88.


3. Across states, more guns = more homicide

Using a validated proxy for firearm ownership, we analyzed the relationship between firearm availability and homicide across 50 states over a ten year period (1988-1997).

After controlling for poverty and urbanization, for every age group, people in states with many guns have elevated rates of homicide, particularly firearm homicide.

Miller, Matthew; Azrael, Deborah; Hemenway, David. Household firearm ownership levels and homicide rates across U.S. regions and states, 1988-1997. American Journal of Public Health. 2002: 92:1988-1993.


4. Across states, more guns = more homicide (2)

Using survey data on rates of household gun ownership, we examined the association between gun availability and homicide across states, 2001-2003. We found that states with higher levels of household gun ownership had higher rates of firearm homicide and overall homicide. This relationship held for both genders and all age groups, after accounting for rates of aggravated assault, robbery, unemployment, urbanization, alcohol consumption, and resource deprivation (e.g., poverty). There was no association between gun prevalence and non-firearm homicide.

[Corbic]

Yes, cause Harvard does not have a horse in that race. ...

http://thecollegefix.mobify.me/post/11918

[Corbic]

Breivik took years to plan out his attack. He spent about € 317,000 with nine credit cards for the attack, started planning for it in 2002, set up a fake geofarm company in 2009, acquired illegal weapons in Prague due to being denied service in the Norwegian military due to being declared mentally unfit in the same year, wrote a thousand page manifesto explaining his plan, and prepared and tested his bomb in the Norwegian wilderness after buying a farm a month before his attack.

The asshole here in Connecticut stole the guns from his mom to carrying out his terrorist attack, and had no fucking motive at all.

That's what separates our mass murderers from the Breiviks of the world, the Breiviks take years and are rare.

You make the idiotic assumption that " crazy" people can't plan, plot and wait.

Why are you so sure this kid just "snapped" and that had he needed to wait s few days or actually seek out a weapon his homicidal motives would have wained and everything would have been fine. As your norweign shows, when people have these thoughts they become obsessed and spend years plotting and planning. They make videos, journals, post online and often are giving off plenty of warning.

Colorado Shooter had piles of journals and was in therapy.

Colobine kids made videos and had been in trouble

Arizona shooter was expelled from school because the facility felt he was unsafe.

The Norwegian, as you said, can't even join the military in a country where everyone must serve....


Nobody did anything.

The list goes on and on. Crazy is crazy. ..whether they are eating hookers cuz m mom didn't love them, crashing planes because God's will, drowning babies because the Devils in them, or shooting up a school cause fuck knows why... They are crazy and with out intervention the homicidal thoughts will just grow until they do something like this. ...


Why kids? Cause he was fucking crazy. ..

[EnemyS15]

I'm too lazy to do the follow up researching, but murder- suicides almost always have a motive. A leading FBI criminal behaviorist did the research and was featured on a show, on investigation disc channel, concerning the different types of murderers, including murder-suicides.

This nut job probably had an issue with mom and decided the best way to get back at mom. Was to cause pain and suffering to her by killing her and then going to her job and killing those innocent kids.

[BOROSUN]

crazies/murderers have a chemical imbalance and different brain patterns that can be spotted.

we need to start pushing technology in mobile health. maybe a portable brain pattern analyzer with a app to a mobile phone. then this data you will be able to crossmatch your brain pattern worldwide with others health or analyzed with a expert. with this app could also spot the crazies and they can be monitored closely.

Mobile Health Apps Under the Regulatory Microscope: The California Report | The California Report (http://www.californiareport.org/archive/R201212071630/d)

example: the mother got a portable analyzer and submit her and son's pattern on the mobile app. days later she got a text concerning about her son's brain abnormal activity, actively crossmatching of a murderer and monitor him closely. she decides to lock up her weapons and kept a eye on him. maybe spend more time on him.

i say thats one step closer for preventive action rather than taking aways our guns.

[1on1]

This is really effed up:

All the victims of the Connecticut elementary school shooting were killed up close by multiple rifle shots, a medical examiner said.
Dr. H. Wayne Carver said at a news conference Saturday the deaths are classified as homicides. He said he believes "everybody was hit more than once."
"This is a very devastating set of injuries," Carver said

Conn. school victims shot by rifle multiple times - Yahoo! News (http://news.yahoo.com/conn-school-victims-shot-rifle-multiple-times-205207737.html)

[Bmxer300zx]

crazies/murderers have a chemical imbalance and different brain patterns that can be spotted.

we need to start pushing technology in mobile health. maybe a portable brain pattern analyzer with a app to a mobile phone. then this data you will be able to crossmatch your brain pattern worldwide with others health or analyzed with a expert. with this app could also spot the crazies and they can be monitored closely.

Mobile Health Apps Under the Regulatory Microscope: The California Report | The California Report (http://www.californiareport.org/archive/R201212071630/d)

example: the mother got a portable analyzer and submit her and son's pattern on the mobile app. days later she got a text concerning about her son's brain abnormal activity, actively crossmatching of a murderer and monitor him closely. she decides to lock up her weapons and kept a eye on him. maybe spend more time

i say thats one step closer for preventive action rather than taking aways our guns.

I think you should watch minority report lol

[Bmxer300zx]

All i can say is ban guns, see what happens a crazy fuck will kill one way or another.
If someone thinks this was a spur of the moment thing and relized a weapon was in the house and sid "hmmm thank god for this gun cause i wouldn't be able to hurt people today" is retarded.
this kid obviously had thoughts of this before and was a sick twisted fuck.
.
But ya banning guns will stop people from killing each other or innocent people. Makes alota fucking sense.
Lets leave the school shooting aside, lets look at the batman shooting what if someone in that crowd had a carry permit? got one clear shoot to that fuckers head, think it'd go the same?

[Pactin]

This was a really sickening event. I feel I can barely empathize those families, living with a gradeschooler myself. Thoughts and prayers go out to those affected.

All i can say is ban guns
see what happens a crazy fuck will kill one way or another.


Sorry, but your first sentence is contradicting itself...

I really tried my best to stay out of this topic, but to no avail. From what the news/internet is reporting, looks like people are at the Whitehouse with their "pitchforks".

On another note, was there any information regarding how the kid got ahold of the guns? I know they were his mother's, but were the guns not locked/in a safe/hidden/secured? or is the media simply jumping straight to "ban-mentality"?

[Corbic]

This was a really sickening event. I feel I can barely empathize those families, living with a gradeschooler myself. Thoughts and prayers go out to those affected.




Sorry, but your first sentence is contradicting itself...

I really tried my best to stay out of this topic, but to no avail. From what the news/internet is reporting, looks like people are at the Whitehouse with their "pitchforks".

On another note, was there any information regarding how the kid got ahold of the guns? I know they were his mother's, but were the guns not locked/in a safe/hidden/secured? or is the media simply jumping straight to "ban-mentality"?


Here is a solution - why not just arm the teachers?

With school violence seemingly on the rise for the last 20 years, wouldn't that make the most sense?

I'm not even talking about the snub-nose in the desk, I'm talking straight up Isreali style with 4-10 teachers being trained, certified and approved to walk the halls and teach clases with a AR15 or Shotgun slung behind their back.


Have full rigorous LEO/Military training course that they have to complete every 3 summers, a points card showing they are keeping up on training, both weapon safety, situational response, threat assessment, CPR ect. Mandate schools are required to have 5% of their staff certified and open caring and this shit would end.

Rather then sacrificing themselves as human shields, cowering under desks or locking themselves in closets with scared students, they would actually be able to do something.

Welcome to Israel.
http://frgdr.com/blog/wp-content/gallery/2008/lonely-planet-israel_boys-girls-and-guns_ido-kenan.jpg

http://www.chinasmack.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/girls-carrying-guns-israel-jew-01.jpg

http://www.jmgads.com/israeliguns.JPG

http://weirdnewsfiles.com/wp-content/weirdnewsuploads/buying_ice_cream.jpg


This irrational fear of guns is at medieval dogma levels in this country. They are tools. People need to work on solving the issue about the users and the device. Its like coming up with the mission statement of "we need to make cars safer because to many people are dying in drunk driving accidents". Media blitz mass shootings are going to happen every 6 months - finding ways to prevent this and deal with it when it happens is what needs to be focused on.

[Bmxer300zx]

This was a really sickening event. I feel I can barely empathize those families, living with a gradeschooler myself. Thoughts and prayers go out to those affected.




Sorry, but your first sentence is contradicting itself...

I really tried my best to stay out of this topic, but to no avail. From what the news/internet is reporting, looks like people are at the Whitehouse with their "pitchforks".

On another note, was there any information regarding how the kid got ahold of the guns? I know they were his mother's, but were the guns not locked/in a safe/hidden/secured? or is the media simply jumping straight to "ban-mentality"?
.
It was sarcasm.
point is banning guns won't solve anything. There will always be a way to get them, same as drugs or any other illegal matter.

[1 88 U]

Despite militarized society, Israel has strict gun laws | JTA - Jewish & Israel News (http://www.jta.org/news/article/2012/07/24/3101546/despite-militarized-society-israels-strict-gun-laws-keep-civilian-violence-down)

Corbic do you even read the sources you link?
TEL AVIV (JTA) -- First-time visitors to Israel might be taken aback to see groups of armed teenagers walking through a city plaza on a weeknight, or surprised to walk into a public bathroom and see an M-16 laying across the sinks as a soldier washes his face.

But guns are ubiquitous in Israel, where most 18-year-olds are drafted into the army after high school.

However, once those soldiers finish their service two or three years later, they are subject to civilian gun control regulations that are much stricter than American laws.

In fact, it’s pretty much impossible for civilians who live in Israel to acquire an arsenal of weaponry of the sort used by the alleged shooter in last week’s massacre in Aurora, Colo. James E. Holmes, who is accused of killing 12 people and wounding 58 in the Aurora movie theater

[1 88 U]

Mythbusting: Israel and Switzerland are not gun-toting utopias

Mythbusting: Israel and Switzerland are not gun-toting utopias (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/12/14/mythbusting-israel-and-switzerland-are-not-gun-toting-utopias/)

JR: Yes, it’s very striking. In Israel, it used to be that all soldiers would take the guns home with them. Now they have to leave them on base. Over the years they’ve done this — it began, I think, in 2006 — there’s been a 60 percent decrease in suicide on weekends among IDS soldiers. And it did not correspond to an increase in weekday suicide. People think suicide is an impulse that exists and builds. This shows that doesn’t happen. The impulse to suicide is transitory. Someone with access to a gun at that moment may commit suicide, but if not, they may not.

[Bmxer300zx]

Corbic
it is a good point or have a officer at a school in the entry way, bet people would think twice of walking in guns blazing.
Why i said if someone at the batman shooting had a carry permit would've been different same as the mall one luckily that didn't go as he planned and the sound of officers changed the scenario.
.
Why ban guns? so when a criminal comes into your home you a defenseless? Oh right 911 that'll stop him from shooting you.
All banning a gun will do is make us more defenseless againts an attacker/killer it will solve nothing.If a criminal wants a gun will be as easy as getting crack and a hooker on the corner.

[Bmxer300zx]

Also have you se security tapes oversea's of england police getting attacked by children with bats and rocks? and they turn and run cause they have no defense over them? of rocks.....

[1 88 U]

Also have you se security tapes oversea's of england police getting attacked by children with bats and rocks? and they turn and run cause they have no defense over them? of rocks.....

How dare the police not have to ability to be tyrannical.


Corbic
it is a good point or have a officer at a school in the entry way, bet people would think twice of walking in guns blazing.
Why i said if someone at the batman shooting had a carry permit would've been different same as the mall one luckily that didn't go as he planned and the sound of officers changed the scenario.
.
Why ban guns? so when a criminal comes into your home you a defenseless? Oh right 911 that'll stop him from shooting you.
All banning a gun will do is make us more defenseless againts an attacker/killer it will solve nothing.If a criminal wants a gun will be as easy as getting crack and a hooker on the corner.

Yes, the "only if there were more guns there will be less gun violence" argument . Show me the studies?

[Corbic]

Despite militarized society, Israel has strict gun laws | JTA - Jewish & Israel News (http://www.jta.org/news/article/2012/07/24/3101546/despite-militarized-society-israels-strict-gun-laws-keep-civilian-violence-down)

Corbic do you even read the sources you link?

WTF are you trying to say? At no point did I say Israel was a free-for-all open cary State. Also you prove my very point. Israel has super strict gun laws, and is even running a full blown embargo/blockade on Palestine - yet violence is still an every day part of life.

Once again, re-read my post. I'm proposing teachers be trained and sanctioned to carry issued weapons in schools - just like young high school graduates are drafted, trained and sanctioned to carry weapons in their communities in Israel. I'm not advocated in anyway this will reduce violence in schools - but it will mean our kids, families and loved ones would actually have a fighting chance, just like a IDF recuite with a TAVOR is not going to stop the war on Israel, they at least give them a fighting chance.

[Corbic]

Mythbusting: Israel and Switzerland are not gun-toting utopias

Mythbusting: Israel and Switzerland are not gun-toting utopias (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/12/14/mythbusting-israel-and-switzerland-are-not-gun-toting-utopias/)

Please show me where I said either place was a gun toting utopia. I'm under no delusion of what life is like in Israel or where these pictures come from. I doubt you have even been to Europe, let alone Israel.

[Bmxer300zx]

How dare the police not have to ability to be tyrannical.


no your right 15 year olds should be able to stand up to the ones protecting us with sticks and stones
what happens in your "world" of banned guns when some nut job decides to get a gun through their local crackhead and do the same shit? then the one cop close by to help is dressed like a english fucking bobby, maybe the kids with stick n stones will help

Yes, the "only if there were more guns there will be less gun violence" argument . Show me the studies?
studies?
I never said make more guns your twisting words now
Alota times people who have a permit to carry don't because of the hassle
I'm a firm believer in making it harder to carry, yes anyone with any criminal, mental, abusive background shouldnt be allowed. Anyone with a dwi or possesion of narcotics/drugs shouldn't and more. Those are all signs of irresposible person.
.
I'm from maine when i move back i plan on getting a gun for my own personal use such as
firing range/ home protection/concealed i don't want my privalage and constitutional right tooken away due to some idiot sicko.

[Corbic]

Corbic
it is a good point or have a officer at a school in the entry way, bet people would think twice of walking in guns blazing.


I went to a HS of 3,000 students with over a dozen entrances - one officer could not possibly cover every conceivable entrance or the entire property. Having 12 of them would simply be impractical, then lets not forget about all of our feeder grade schools. Our policing staff for the county would need to add an extra 100 - 200 officers.

That is just not possible and irrational.

There is no reason you could not train an college graduated (teaching requirement) adult how to properly use a fire & maintain a firearm and respond to a hostile situation.

You'd be surprised how "little" training police officers and those kids in the IDF actually receive -

[Bmxer300zx]

I wana see what type of person you are 1 88 U
.
If a man on security tape walks up to a family in a parking lot pulls out a weapon of any kind, knife, gun, pen, sword, rock , stick or i dont care and kills a member of the family ON TAPE 100% GUILTY
.
Do you think the death penalty is "inhumane"?

[Corbic]

I'm a firm believer in making it harder to carry, yes anyone with any criminal, mental, abusive background shouldnt be allowed.

Already in effect nation wide, has been for +30 years.

Oh, but how do I know if you have a history of mental illness, thoughts of homicide or have or been abused in the past?


Anyone with a dwi or possesion of narcotics/drugs shouldn't and more.

While a DUI is not a felony conviction - thus it won't negate from possession of a fire arm, it's also a "criminal record" which will negate your ability to get a CCW permit.

Usage, addiction, or criminal history of narcotics does negate ones ability to own a firearm and CCW - but once again, if you have never been convicted of cocaine possession - how do I know that?


Those are all signs of irresposible person.

No shit - the problem is, how does a gun store, or the State Police department know these things when you are buying a firearm or apply for a CCW? Data shows that CCW holders are some of the most law abiding citizens in this country - no surprise considering the background checks needed.

However, is the plan to start a "mental disorder" network for LEOs, Gun-stores ect to tap into? With 30-50% of the country suffering from some sort of mental disorder, 35% on mental-health medication and a continuing campaign against the stigmatism of mental-diseases, telling people if they try to get help will instantly label them for life is rather counter productive.

[Corbic]

I wana see what type of person you are 1 88 U
.
If a man on security tape walks up to a family in a parking lot pulls out a weapon of any kind, knife, gun, pen, sword, rock , stick or i dont care and kills a member of the family ON TAPE 100% GUILTY
.
Do you think the death penalty is "inhumane"?


Of course, its societies fault - he just needed love and understanding.

[Bmxer300zx]

understandable, but some schools have metal detectors and officers at them now not saying 1 cop to every 20kids but if there had been only one officer or security officer there could have changed everything. maybe the kid would've decided againts it, or not hard to say i just don't think banning guns will help.
Also to ban all guns is an enormous task there are so many in circulation its rediculous all you'd do is take guns from those who can protect and leave them in the hands of criminals/killers to have.

[Bmxer300zx]

Yes if someone wants a permit i think they should be able to open an record that shows you may have mental illness, therapy, mass depression or anything leading to something saying you are unstable.
now that still doesn't help the ones that just snap but i'm sorry you need to understand if a criminl wants a gun he WILL get one regardless of it being legal or not. Like i said give me 10mins in the city and i'll get you crack Wow so hard to do
.
Maybe it's where people are raised i was brought up around guns and have respect for them and what they can do.

[Bmxer300zx]

Of course, its societies fault - he just needed love and understanding.

your right we should feed him, bathe him, give him breaks to go play outside and maybe after 50yrs and hundreds and thousands of dollars he will see what he did wrong.
.

[1 88 U]

I wana see what type of person you are 1 88 U
.
If a man on security tape walks up to a family in a parking lot pulls out a weapon of any kind, knife, gun, pen, sword, rock , stick or i dont care and kills a member of the family ON TAPE 100% GUILTY
.
Do you think the death penalty is "inhumane"?

I am against the capital punishment. I am a responsible gun owner. I am open to discuss meaningful gun control. I do not believe in a total gun ban.

[Corbic]

understandable, but some schools have metal detectors and officers at them now not saying 1 cop to every 20kids but if there had been only one officer or security officer there could have changed everything. maybe the kid would've decided againts it, or not hard to say i just don't think banning guns will help.
Also to ban all guns is an enormous task there are so many in circulation its rediculous all you'd do is take guns from those who can protect and leave them in the hands of criminals/killers to have.

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQZZmXwdqmIicOaf1EdSeQTQIW_NqrJt ik8o0n65hkBR9xBGQ-V8tmokO8qWA

Seeing we can't shut the boarders down to stop drugs and terrorists - I doubt we'll be able to stop them from traffic guns as well. Street prices will just go up but you'll still be able to get them in every city.


Ban them and people will start to make them underground -just like meth. It's not that complicated, anyone with some hand tools and a Home Depot could make a zip gun. Get a drill press and access to a lathe and you'll have military grade hardware in no time. A Highschool Shop class can turn out AKs.

Full Auto Zip-Gun from Northern Ireland. Guns are illegal there but you'd know no it from the history of violence and murder.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m5zz5i6rHf1rphxjeo1_1280.jpg

From Russia, scratch built guns

http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee82/Dayanx/zips/1225054421322.jpg

http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee82/Dayanx/zips/1225054900182.jpg

http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee82/Dayanx/zips/homebrew.jpg


Underground factory in the Philippines building illegal weapons - military grade.

http://acidcow.com/pics/20100920/industry_in_the_philippines_02.jpg
http://acidcow.com/pics/20100920/industry_in_the_philippines_03.jpg

http://acidcow.com/pics/20100920/industry_in_the_philippines_05.jpg

http://acidcow.com/pics/20100920/industry_in_the_philippines_09.jpg

http://acidcow.com/pics/20100920/industry_in_the_philippines_10.jpg

[Corbic]

More - (insane)

http://acidcow.com/pics/20100920/industry_in_the_philippines_12.jpg

http://acidcow.com/pics/20100920/industry_in_the_philippines_20.jpg

http://acidcow.com/pics/20100920/industry_in_the_philippines_24.jpg

http://acidcow.com/pics/20100920/industry_in_the_philippines_26.jpg

The revolvers sell for $80.

Of course also - how to build an AK-47 from a shovel.

DIY: Shovel AK - photo tsunami warning! (http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/threads/179192-DIY-Shovel-AK-photo-tsunami-warning!?p=2695046&viewfull=1#post2695046)

http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/x368/_ak_74_/shovel_ak/53.jpg

[Bmxer300zx]

1. Why?
2.good
3. Gun control is most def needed that includes owners of weapons should keep them in a safe/locked place i feel alot of times when things "happen" it's from neglagence on gun owners behalf.
4. good, semi auto's? i am borderline with this one i have a few friends with ar15's and others i would love to own one but seeing the damage it can cause is understandable, but then falls into owners safegaurding them.

[Bmxer300zx]

corbic
That's what i was getting at all banning will do is make a black market for it.

[Corbic]

1. Why?
2.good
3. Gun control is most def needed that includes owners of weapons should keep them in a safe/locked place i feel alot of times when things "happen" it's from neglagence on gun owners behalf.
4. good, semi auto's? i am borderline with this one i have a few friends with ar15's and others i would love to own one but seeing the damage it can cause is understandable, but then falls into owners safegaurding them.

The recent cases had nothing to do with improper storage. In fact, less then 10% of guns used in crimes are stolen. The vast majority is from straw buyers - meaning, I'm a criminal with a healthy record give you, a clean cut guy, $1000 to buy me a $500 pistol.

This is actually how the kids at Colobine got their guns, they where underage but had a friend go buy them.

In the case of the Connecticut shooting, being the mother owned the weapons, I'm sure the shooter could have accessed them even if they had been locked up.

Both Colorado and Arizona shooters legally purchased the firearms. Both had clean criminal records, however both also had lengthy mental health histories.

[Bmxer300zx]

Idk my uncle, cousin and brother have guns with children at home they are in steel case in their office/basements with a lock the key stays with them at all times so the kids can never get ahold of them.
.
Also that was intended for 1 88 u lol i need to quote the other forum im on bitches for quoting to much lol

[Bmxer300zx]

But ya those pictures are a good indication on what would happen literally go from cops busting methlabs to busting illegal gun ..fabricators?..factories? idk lol

[fliprayzin240sx]

I say fuck it, arm everybody, will put some fear into these idiots about pulling something like this. Fucking pussy will puss out once they figured out that everybody else can shoot back at them.

[Corbic]

I say fuck it, arm everybody, will put some fear into these idiots about pulling something like this. Fucking pussy will puss out once they figured out that everybody else can shoot back at them.

I don't think someone on a suicidal rampage is going to "puss out" - I do think you'd be able to drop them dead 20 seconds into their rampage however, meaning only a few people may have been hurt or killed instead of dozens.

[Pactin]

Pics

Wow, I didn't realize the Philippines could make something so genuine-looking with such inferior production tools.

I agree a total ban on civilian guns would be the 1920's all over again. Reducing gun violence doesn't have to mean total gun control! When will those politicians understand this? Though I doubt they will be able to disarm every law abidin citizen, I'm sure they will push harder to ban anything scary looking, one by one. With the public's (fear mongered) consent of course.

[ditchs14]

wr3rFSElA9I

btw this is NOT me. but i do agree with this

[HyperTek]

Pretty good article about how Japan's gun laws are compared to ours.
The Japan lesson: Can America learn from the country that has almost zero gun deaths? (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2012/12/14/the-japan-lesson-can-americans-learn-from-the-country-that-has-almost-zero-gun-deaths/)

I think the issue is people just lose their minds and go crazy. Than you got people who have very short tempers and rage easily. I think the push from the NRA made guns desirable to today's society, and our video games enforce it too, anyone remember call of duty mw2, in the beginning of the game you go shooting up an airport. Lens of Truth: Modern Warfare 2 - "No Russian" Airport Mission - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NMnnMRWJ-0)

Of course gun owners will not give up their rights to firearms. But some people just lose their minds.

[Corbic]

Unfortunately he very wrong about mental health and "personality disorders". If someone is on medication is because there is often something PHYSICALLY WRONG with their brains.

The two most common form of "violent" mentally ill people are the AntiSocials (sociopaths) and Schizophrenics. While most Schizophrenics are nonviolent, they have a break from reality where their brain is unable to determine what is real and what is not. Schizophrenia can be easily measured with brain scans.

http://www.physio-pedia.com/images/a/a0/Schizophrenia_graphic_high_contrast1.jpg

Antisocial (Sociopaths) people are very real, very common and often very scary.

Antisocial personality disorder - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisocial_personality_disorder)

[Corbic]

Pretty good article about how Japan's gun laws are compared to ours.
The Japan lesson: Can America learn from the country that has almost zero gun deaths? (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2012/12/14/the-japan-lesson-can-americans-learn-from-the-country-that-has-almost-zero-gun-deaths/)

I think the issue is people just lose their minds and go crazy. Than you got people who have very short tempers and rage easily. I think the push from the NRA made guns desirable to today's society, and our video games enforce it too, anyone remember call of duty mw2, in the beginning of the game you go shooting up an airport. Lens of Truth: Modern Warfare 2 - "No Russian" Airport Mission - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NMnnMRWJ-0)

Of course gun owners will not give up their rights to firearms. But some people just lose their minds.


Violence in America is actually on a massive down swing. Most studies show violent video games do not make people violent. I think everyone on this website has played MW2 - did anyone go out and shoot up an airport? Does anyone want to go torture small animals? Did watching Haloween make you want to go around killing people with a knife?

http://themonkeycage.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/violence.png


Gun ownership is also down -

http://themonkeycage.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/guns.png

Plenty of stats out there.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/files/2012/07/America-is-violent-graph.png

http://madeinamericathebook.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/homicides-1900-20062.jpg?w=430&h=340

http://madeinamericathebook.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/violence-stylized2.png?w=430&h=295

The overall story is that homicide rates declined substantially (as did rates of interpersonal violence of all sorts). The drop in violent crime in the U.S. after about 1850 was not as fast or as consistent as it was in western Europe and that is when the striking violence gap opened up. The graph also shows that progress was hardly uniform, as there were many upswings of violence. Spurts often coincide with wars and the aftermaths of war – notably having many demobilized soldiers, trained and armed fighters, roaming the land. (See this paper for one analysis of the war effect.) Another short-term influence is bloody competition among armed criminals – for example, over alcohol distribution during Prohibition and over crack cocaine during the 1980s.

[BarrigaS14]

I don't think someone on a suicidal rampage is going to "puss out" - I do think you'd be able to drop them dead 20 seconds into their rampage however, meaning only a few people may have been hurt or killed instead of dozens.

There are studies on shootings that have shown that once the shooter is confronted by someone else with a weapon who engages them, they usually stop their spree and do one of two things. Off themselves or engage that person, allowing others to escape.

I am not positive, but there was a report stating the guy in Oregon was confronted by someone with a gun, retreated and shot himself. I can't confirm that.

Then there was the guy in Wisconsin who was shooting that temple and when confronted by an officer, stopped his attack on the temple and went after the officer.

Mostly, now, officers are taught to NOT wait for SWAT to arrive but rather to go into the shooting, find the suspect and engage. My department is taught that and if we are able to get a couple of officers together prior, then that is good. But the first ones on the scene, grab your extra ammo, AR's and go and engage.

[Corbic]

There are studies on shootings that have shown that once the shooter is confronted by someone else with a weapon who engages them, they usually stop their spree and do one of two things. Off themselves or engage that person, allowing others to escape.

I am not positive, but there was a report stating the guy in Oregon was confronted by someone with a gun, retreated and shot himself. I can't confirm that.

Then there was the guy in Wisconsin who was shooting that temple and when confronted by an officer, stopped his attack on the temple and went after the officer.

Mostly, now, officers are taught to NOT wait for SWAT to arrive but rather to go into the shooting, find the suspect and engage. My department is taught that and if we are able to get a couple of officers together prior, then that is good. But the first ones on the scene, grab your extra ammo, AR's and go and engage.


I agree with this - but my argument is knowing there are police out there is not going to stop a rampage for being initiated. In the case of this School, ad there been a door guard, I don't think the shooter would have said "oh shit, I might get caught - fuck it". I also don't think it's economically feasible to post 2-3 cops at every school in this nation with the express duty of guarding the facility.

That is where my suggestion of armed teachers, or maybe cops that are duel roll - full time teacher with LEO authority or something comes in. That way you have a half-dozen people who only make a few extra hundred a year spread out over the school - all capable fo dealing with this kind of situation.

[BarrigaS14]

I agree with this - but my argument is knowing there are police out there is not going to stop a rampage for being initiated. In the case of this School, ad there been a door guard, I don't think the shooter would have said "oh shit, I might get caught - fuck it". I also don't think it's economically feasible to post 2-3 cops at every school in this nation with the express duty of guarding the facility.

That is where my suggestion of armed teachers, or maybe cops that are duel roll - full time teacher with LEO authority or something comes in. That way you have a half-dozen people who only make a few extra hundred a year spread out over the school - all capable fo dealing with this kind of situation.

I should have made the post a little bit more clearer, but anyone that confronts the person usually stops the rampage.

But I completely agree with you as well. Teachers should be given the ability to defend themselves. They will go through tactics and backgrounds and what not. And be allowed to carry designated weapons and ammo. Because in general, an officer getting to a school could take minutes. How many rounds, from a semi, can one shoot in several minutes of terror?

Now the thing to consider, the teachers that would be armed, need to have some special and highly visible identification to responding officers so the officers don't think the teacher is the threat.

[Corbic]

How many rounds, from a semi, can one shoot in several minutes of terror?

Now the thing to consider, the teachers that would be armed, need to have some special and highly visible identification to responding officers so the officers don't think the teacher is the threat.

Forget semi-auto, even my unskilled ass can pull off a mad minute with an Enfield (10 rounds, man size, 100 yards, 60 seconds - bolt action)

Armed teachers could simply where red badges or something with name and National Registery numbers.

[Bmxer300zx]

I agree with this - but my argument is knowing there are police out there is not going to stop a rampage for being initiated. In the case of this School, ad there been a door guard, I don't think the shooter would have said "oh shit, I might get caught - fuck it". I also don't think it's economically feasible to post 2-3 cops at every school in this nation with the express duty of guarding the facility.

That is where my suggestion of armed teachers, or maybe cops that are duel roll - full time teacher with LEO authority or something comes in. That way you have a half-dozen people who only make a few extra hundred a year spread out over the school - all capable fo dealing with this kind of situation.

ya but a teacher is just a everyday person you couldn't pay some to hold a gun let alone put one in a class room. Then imagine parents reaction to a gun in the glass room it would have to be locked up so that it would make it pointless.
Also i feel a teacher would have to take a gun course same as a officer. Honestly my opinion most police forces could spare a few people worst case hire, make more jobs for the economy any way.
problem is it's not just schools to worry about , mall shooting was a day prior plus any public place can be a target.
Problem is people not guns, what if this asshole got some grenades or worse a bomb? those would be more damaging in a crowded place then any gun just look at what happens oversea's.

[Bmxer300zx]

but ya a duel roll could work be hard to find a cop amd teacher in one without wanting double pay over other teachets lol

[Corbic]

ya but a teacher is just a everyday person y

How are cops and soldiers any different? They go to a training course for a few weeks and somehow no longer "everyday persons"? As for more pay, how bout they keep their jobs and get the pleasure of knowing they are making a difference? Teachers in Chicago already make $75,000 a year. Maybe we should be expecting more for our money.

[HyperTek]

Yeah good try getting guns in schools with teachers, there will be some students who try to go for the guns. Especially high school students , where they are big enough to take down a teacher.
Who's to say a teacher doesn't flip out? Bearly making rent, than gets called in to hand his/her stuff over getting laid off , etc..

Only way is to make gun laws stricter. But it is hard to do so without people getting upset about giving up their guns. "But people can still get guns on the black market", well the government can work on cracking down on that as well, as well as gun imports from the border etc.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/12/16/article-2249185-168BE173000005DC-875_634x408.jpg

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/20519_10151346264441963_331403422_n.png
It wouldn't be too far fetched if someone in that family turns out to be a bit nuts.

[Bmxer300zx]

How are cops and soldiers any different? They go to a training course for a few weeks and somehow no longer "everyday persons"? As for more pay, how bout they keep their jobs and get the pleasure of knowing they are making a difference? Teachers in Chicago already make $75,000 a year. Maybe we should be expecting more for our money.

because thats what they choose to do, being a cop, army, milatary and etc that's your job to protect people and use weapons if needed. A teacher is there to teach not become a soldier, protecting children should be #1 but you can't make a average teacher who choose that job to hold a gun.
.
Thats another downside, highschool kids can take down a teacher whats stopping some kids from holding down a teacher and unlocking a gun to use? thats putting it at easier access in some cases.
School protection should be enforced in someway though forsure.

[Corbic]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/12/16/article-2249185-168BE173000005DC-875_634x408.jpg



Lovely quote of miss information there. So your going to compare the shooting deaths of Englands 49 million in raw total to the US's total for 320+ million?

Conveniently you leave out the "rougher" parts of Europe, like the Balkans, Russia and Ireland. Can we just cut out the shooting deaths of New Orleans, New York, Washington, Detroit, LA and Oakland for the US?

We can go on and on. The fact remains in all of these mass shootings the individual was mentally ill and had given off plenty of warning of their insatiability. There is simply no path of action in handling such individuals.

In the Connecticut case, the firearms where owned by the mother - a law abiding citizen who I can safely say would never had harmed the children, or anyone for that mater.

The Norwegian shooting proves to me that if someone wants to go on a mass rampage there is nothing thats going to stop them.

[Corbic]

A teacher is there to teach not become a soldier, protecting children should be #1 but you can't make a average teacher who choose that job to hold a gun.


They can find new jobs. But I think we are both in agreement, the whole "Code Blue" hide in your class room thing is just stupid. ID Cards are a joke and I'd be curious to what the stats are for the inner-city schools with onsite Police officers.

[Purestock240]

No matter what if someone wants to kill people they will, if they can't buy a gun you build a pipe bomb, Stab the shit outta people whatever. The problem isn't guns. More psychological support in schools would probably have a bigger effect than a stupid gun law

[Bmxer300zx]

They can find new jobs. But I think we are both in agreement, the whole "Code Blue" hide in your class room thing is just stupid. ID Cards are a joke and I'd be curious to what the stats are for the inner-city schools with onsite Police officers.

yes would be good to see. I know some schools in n.y.c and in cali plus others require you to go through metal detectors and more with cops gaurding the main entry ways.

[jamg]

you guys should quit the gun debates. it isn't the problem.

it lies within the person. adam specifically was a very sick and mentally handicapped person.

his brain works abnormally in comparison to what a normal person should operate at.

his mother was a huge problem in causing the shooting. if she had just realized that her son was a sick and a psychologically unstable person, this could have been prevented.

some say he did it to be remembered, for fame, and to be forever known, but honestly, i think he did this because of the abnormalities in his head that caused him to go crazy and create havoc in a school full of little kids.

read this article-

'I Am Adam Lanza's Mother': A Mom's Perspective On The Mental Illness Conversation In America (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/16/i-am-adam-lanzas-mother-mental-illness-conversation_n_2311009.html)

parents need to start ACCEPTING the fact that their child is DIFFERENT from everyone else. they need to know that their kid needs special treatment. as much as everyone wants to have a healthy normal acting kid, it isn't the case.

stop treating kids with mental disorders as normal people and accept the fact that they will forever be different.

just read that article, and you will see exactly why the parenting was a huge cause for the death of the little kids.

[BarrigaS14]

ya but a teacher is just a everyday person you couldn't pay some to hold a gun let alone put one in a class room. Then imagine parents reaction to a gun in the glass room it would have to be locked up so that it would make it pointless.
Also i feel a teacher would have to take a gun course same as a officer. Honestly my opinion most police forces could spare a few people worst case hire, make more jobs for the economy any way.
problem is it's not just schools to worry about , mall shooting was a day prior plus any public place can be a target.
Problem is people not guns, what if this asshole got some grenades or worse a bomb? those would be more damaging in a crowded place then any gun just look at what happens oversea's.

You must not know how the economy works. In Az, almost every single police department is struggling to maintain their numbers. My department is down at least 20 people. And we lose about 5-7 people a year.

A place like Phoenix police department is down 300 people and won't hire until 2015 they estimate. They lose around 20 people a month. Trying to just hire people to put into school is impossible.

Arming and training a select number of teachers would give them a better chance at preventing something like this. Like I stated before, when someone is able to return fire to an attacker, they stop and either shoot themselves or go after the person firing them. Giving chance for others to escape.

Officers want to get there as fast as possible, trust me. But being 1-5 minutes out. Then finding the shooter would take a lot of time and lives.

[Corbic]

his mother was a huge problem in causing the shooting. if she had just realized that her son was a sick and a psychologically unstable person, this could have been prevented.


The problem is that he is 20 years old. You can't "force" an adult to get treatment if they don't want to. He can refuse to take medication, he can refuse to go to therapy.

The larger moral issue is what do you do when you identify someone as "at risk". Do you lock them up? Force them to take medication? Who pays for this? What would such actions do to the greater population, will people begin to fear seeking mental help because they don't want to be labeled and have their lives ruined?

[jamg]

The problem is that he is 20 years old. You can't "force" an adult to get treatment if they don't want to. He can refuse to take medication, he can refuse to go to therapy.

The larger moral issue is what do you do when you identify someone as "at risk". Do you lock them up? Force them to take medication? Who pays for this? What would such actions do to the greater population, will people begin to fear seeking mental help because they don't want to be labeled and have their lives ruined?

generally speaking, the US does not have much emphasis on treating people with mental disorders.

the killer did not develop this at 18-20, he had it his whole life. he was crazy and legally insane.

the problem should have been pointed out when he was a kid.

did you guys also see the conspiracy info that was coming out on the shooting, along with the shooting of the movie theater?

The father of Connecticut school shooter Adam Lanza, "Peter Lanza", was the tax director for General Electric, a corporation that paid -0- taxes on 14.2 billion dollars in profits last year, and He was scheduled to testify in the ongoing global LIBOR scandal.

The father of Aurora Colorado movie theater shooter James Holmes is Robert Holmes, the lead scientist for the credit score company FICO, and He too was to testify before the US Sentate in the ongoing LIBOR scandal.

That's right, BOTH men were to testify before the US Sentate in the ongoing LIBOR scandal.knowing that alone makes things a bit more scary...

http://www.examiner.com/article/libor-scandal-grows-as-the-fathers-of-two-mass-murderers-were-to-testify

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libor_scandal

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/9747682/Connecticut-school-shooting-troubled-life-of-Adam-Lanza-a-fiercely-intelligent-killer.html

http://www.stamfordadvocate.com/news/article/Father-of-Newtown-shooter-lives-in-Stamford-4119559.php

http://money.cnn.com/2012/10/18/news/companies/general-electric-prison/index.html

so adam was said to have hand guns, but according to the doctors, the death was actually from a bullet that is shot from a long rifle. cops also arrested a man in cameo gear walking out from the woods.

brb getting my tin foil hat.

[Bmxer300zx]

corbic
seems like people down south already thought of your idea awhile 08? back idk if it happened saw this floating on my FB feed and thought it was interesting
Texas School District Will Let Teachers Carry Guns | Fox News (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,404721,00.html)
Then watched this was kind of the opposite side shows how australia is with guns but more of a onesided look this is coming from a country that legalized flame throwers from under the car due to having massively high car thefts.
Gun Control: 31/07/2012, Behind the News (http://www.abc.net.au/btn/story/s3553560.htm)

[Bmxer300zx]

double post idk why f-u phone lol

[omgRWDgoodness!]

Funny how every time something like this happens everyone starts blaming guns and how they're the cause of so much violence, screaming for gun control/illegalization.

What we need to start doing is putting all the fucking retards in asylums and institutions like we used to.

[bc.]

Best response I heard yet, by Morgan Freeman:

Why did the Connecticut shooting take place?
"It's because of the way the media reports it," Freeman says. "Flip on the news and watch how we treat the Batman theater shooter (http://www.thehollywoodgossip.com/2012/07/dark-knight-rises-premiere-shooting-leaves-14-dead-in-colorado/) and the Oregon mall shooter like celebrities.
"Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris are household names, but do you know the name of a single *victim* of Columbine? Disturbed people who would otherwise just off themselves in their basements see the news and want to top it by doing something worse, and going out in a memorable way.
"Why a grade school? Why children? Because he'll be remembered as a horrible monster, instead of a sad nobody."
Backing up this theory, it's believed that Lanza previewed his massacre (http://www.thehollywoodgossip.com/2012/12/adam-lanza-did-he-preview-school-shooting-on-4chan/) online two days before it took place, teasing the murder/suicide on a forum like some sort of twisted movie.
Continues Morgan:
"CNN's article says that if the body count "holds up", this will rank as the second deadliest shooting behind Virginia Tech, as if statistics somehow make one shooting worse than another. Then they post a video interview of third-graders for all the details of what they saw and heard while the shootings were happening. Fox News has plastered the killer's face on all their reports for hours.
"Any articles or news stories yet that focus on the victims and ignore the killer's identity? None that I've seen yet. Because they don't sell. So congratulations, sensationalist media, you've just lit the fire for someone to top this and knock off a day care center or a maternity ward next.
"You can help by forgetting you ever read this man's name, and remembering the name of at least one victim. You can help by donating to mental health research instead of pointing to gun control as the problem. You can help by turning off the news."

[VROOOM]

Best response I heard yet, by Morgan Freeman:

Why did the Connecticut shooting take place?
"It's because of the way the media reports it," Freeman says. "Flip on the news and watch how we treat the Batman theater shooter (http://www.thehollywoodgossip.com/2012/07/dark-knight-rises-premiere-shooting-leaves-14-dead-in-colorado/) and the Oregon mall shooter like celebrities.
"Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris are household names, but do you know the name of a single *victim* of Columbine? Disturbed people who would otherwise just off themselves in their basements see the news and want to top it by doing something worse, and going out in a memorable way.
"Why a grade school? Why children? Because he'll be remembered as a horrible monster, instead of a sad nobody."
Backing up this theory, it's believed that Lanza previewed his massacre (http://www.thehollywoodgossip.com/2012/12/adam-lanza-did-he-preview-school-shooting-on-4chan/) online two days before it took place, teasing the murder/suicide on a forum like some sort of twisted movie.
Continues Morgan:
"CNN's article says that if the body count "holds up", this will rank as the second deadliest shooting behind Virginia Tech, as if statistics somehow make one shooting worse than another. Then they post a video interview of third-graders for all the details of what they saw and heard while the shootings were happening. Fox News has plastered the killer's face on all their reports for hours.
"Any articles or news stories yet that focus on the victims and ignore the killer's identity? None that I've seen yet. Because they don't sell. So congratulations, sensationalist media, you've just lit the fire for someone to top this and knock off a day care center or a maternity ward next.
"You can help by forgetting you ever read this man's name, and remembering the name of at least one victim. You can help by donating to mental health research instead of pointing to gun control as the problem. You can help by turning off the news."


Morgan Freeman didn't write anti-media diatribe in aftermath of Sandy Hook massacre, says rep - NY Daily News (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/morgan-freeman-didn-write-anti-media-diatribe-article-1.1221958)

[bc.]

Morgan Freeman didn't write anti-media diatribe in aftermath of Sandy Hook massacre, says rep - NY Daily News (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/morgan-freeman-didn-write-anti-media-diatribe-article-1.1221958)

Damn, I still thought it was good though :D

[Mofuhcka]

Morgan Freeman didn't write anti-media diatribe in aftermath of Sandy Hook massacre, says rep - NY Daily News (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/morgan-freeman-didn-write-anti-media-diatribe-article-1.1221958)

Doesnt matter who wrote it, its true. You guys actually think the media gives a fuck? Theyll make a story so fucked up, because people will want to find out more, watch their show more, giving them more money. They have money so why would they care about things that arent affecting them?

[VROOOM]

it is a good read and i agree with most of it, just letting the person posting it know that it wasnt from Morgan Freeman.

[Mofuhcka]

it is a good read and i agree with most of it, just letting the person posting it know that it wasnt from Morgan Freeman.

I know man, no worries

[raz0rbladez909]

Yeah good try getting guns in schools with teachers, there will be some students who try to go for the guns. Especially high school students , where they are big enough to take down a teacher.
Who's to say a teacher doesn't flip out? Bearly making rent, than gets called in to hand his/her stuff over getting laid off , etc..

Only way is to make gun laws stricter. But it is hard to do so without people getting upset about giving up their guns. "But people can still get guns on the black market", well the government can work on cracking down on that as well, as well as gun imports from the border etc.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/12/16/article-2249185-168BE173000005DC-875_634x408.jpg

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/20519_10151346264441963_331403422_n.png
It wouldn't be too far fetched if someone in that family turns out to be a bit nuts.

"Oh the UK only had 30 something gun related crimes!" What you fail to realize is they also have the highest violent crime rate in the world!
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/07/02/article-1196941-05900DF7000005DC-677_468x636.jpg
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1196941/The-violent-country-Europe-Britain-worse-South-Africa-U-S.html?bcsi_scan_4348695FDC439BF5=1&bcsi_scan_773E6145B420DAC3=1

Also the great thing is that each of those kids in that picture shows proper trigger discipline, something the parents probably taught them well.

[imotion s14]

he was crazy and legally insane.


Well there goes issues regarding the attitude of mental health in a nutshell.

[Josh400]

I've notice eff up things happening lately. Is it because people are spook on 12-21-12? Or WTF is it? They were couple people in Vegas were trying to do copy cats. One wanted to it up the school and other wanted to hit up the movies. But luckly they were stop. I need to strap up. I feel shitty for those kids. Probably in a better place

[shobotan]

corbic
seems like people down south already thought of your idea awhile 08? back idk if it happened saw this floating on my FB feed and thought it was interesting
Texas School District Will Let Teachers Carry Guns | Fox News (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,404721,00.html)
Then watched this was kind of the opposite side shows how australia is with guns but more of a onesided look this is coming from a country that legalized flame throwers from under the car due to having massively high car thefts.
Gun Control: 31/07/2012, Behind the News (http://www.abc.net.au/btn/story/s3553560.htm)

You could be thinking of South Africa with the flame throwers, you can't light a fart here (AUS) without getting hit with the carbon tax.:cry:

[Bmxer300zx]

^ ha ya guess so lol got it mixed up i guess was a show on random stuff

[S14DB]

"Oh the UK only had 30 something gun related crimes!" What you fail to realize is they also have the highest violent crime rate in the world!
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/07/02/article-1196941-05900DF7000005DC-677_468x636.jpg
The most violent country in Europe: Britain is also worse than South Africa and U.S. | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1196941/The-violent-country-Europe-Britain-worse-South-Africa-U-S.html?bcsi_scan_4348695FDC439BF5=1&bcsi_scan_773E6145B420DAC3=1)

Also the great thing is that each of those kids in that picture shows proper trigger discipline, something the parents probably taught them well.

Yeah, they switched to stabbing each other.


New hot Christmas present.
Sales of bulletproof backpacks, kids' body armor by Utah company soar 500 percent following Connecticut shootings | Fox News (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/12/19/bulletproof-backpacks-kids-body-armor-in-demand-following-connecticut-school/)