which sway bar and bushing kit ??

[ke70 sr20det]

hi everyone , i wanted to ask question regarding two things which i dint know

i am ordering master bushing kit so which one is better prothane or energy suspension, i know both are good but main problem is do they give same amount of bushes i was checking some where on SRT forums that prothane gives one or two bush more in their kit .. explain this

secondly i wanted to ask about rear sway bar i was looking at tanabe,whitline and progress autp .. is it needed for drag and street car . i dont do auto x and drift sessions ...

car is nissan silvia s13 89 model with hicas running 2jz with 62mm single. will be running for 550wheels

plz dont put flame suit on i checked zilvia before posting ere .. feedback is appreciated

thank you

[Croustibat]

Ideally you want whiteline style adjustable droplinks on the bar. considering stiffness, it depends on what you are after and on your setup, but seeing as you got a 2Jz in it, your weight ratio is completely screwed anyway so it wont matter (unless you did cut that firewall and install the engine approx 1 foot through it ).

Have you ever installed bushes ? You need some tooling. If you dont have them, i strongly advise you to get new arms with bushings already installed (or better, rose/ball joints), because it really is a pain to remove the bushings, and then install new ones. And doing it without damaging the arms. That and PU bushings are good when your suspension arms move only in one direction ... which is not the case on the S chassis, except for the lower rear control arm to subframe mounts.

The reason i tell you that is because i did exactly that. Bought an energy suspension set, spent months borrowing tools to get bushings in and out, the threw the towel without finishing and bough PU bushed adjustable arms. Then seeing how much they bind and how my tuner went crazy when aligning it, i bought rose/ball jointed arms. Had i done that directly, i would not have wasted a year, not to mention the money spent.

[2muchboost]

Lol wish I would have read this a week ago. Spent a good portion of the day ripping apart the rear subframe to replace all bushing with ES Master Kit. I will say that the OEM bushings are much more stout then the ES. I may in the future replace them again if I have any issues. The messed up part is I started ripping the OEM bushings out and realized most of them were in great shape...FML.

PS: Yes they are an extreme pain in the ass to change. You will need tools, knowledge, and lots of patience. Thankfully my uncles shop has about $1 Million worth of tools so you are bound to find something that works.

PSS: Croustibat.....where did you end up purchasing the rose/ball jointed arms from?

[The Dude]

Polyurethane FTL.
You don't need to upgrade the rear sway bar. Most of them are larger than the stock ones and will cause your car to oversteer more, assuming you haven't already changed the front one.

[badbob2121]

You guys are pussy's.

I wouldn't call it fun, but installing the ES master kit wasn't that bad..

The results were worth it...

[Johnny_K]

i just ordered whiteline cause i heard good things about them.

[DJ-of-E]

Nismo or oem rubber jelly-filled bushings. Engineers know what they were doing when designing with them. Either that or ball joints all around.

ES bushing seemed great at first, but you have to mod it for lubrication maintenance, otherwise they do bind a bit. For my auto-x car, I say around 2 years at most before those needs to be replaced.

For swaybars, oem would be the best. Any other would prone to albeit more over-steer. I used whitelines....sucks with tire sizes 225 or smaller for auto-x and track cuz I got oversteer EVERYWHERE T_T

[ke70 sr20det]

Ideally you want whiteline style adjustable droplinks on the bar. considering stiffness, it depends on what you are after and on your setup, but seeing as you got a 2Jz in it, your weight ratio is completely screwed anyway so it wont matter (unless you did cut that firewall and install the engine approx 1 foot through it ).

Have you ever installed bushes ? You need some tooling. If you dont have them, i strongly advise you to get new arms with bushings already installed (or better, rose/ball joints), because it really is a pain to remove the bushings, and then install new ones. And doing it without damaging the arms. That and PU bushings are good when your suspension arms move only in one direction ... which is not the case on the S chassis, except for the lower rear control arm to subframe mounts.

The reason i tell you that is because i did exactly that. Bought an energy suspension set, spent months borrowing tools to get bushings in and out, the threw the towel without finishing and bough PU bushed adjustable arms. Then seeing how much they bind and how my tuner went crazy when aligning it, i bought rose/ball jointed arms. Had i done that directly, i would not have wasted a year, not to mention the money spent.

good feedback but the main interesting part is our labour is cheaper then USA and its like 40 dollars replacing all bushing with complete tools and its suspension shop who do there work in this price and have done many cars with poly bushes thats not an issue ... i did prothane kit on my ke70 i felt alot better and i do keep checking for squeaks so far good result ..

as for sway bar i just dunno mine is 17mm or 21mm ill check if its 21 ill leave it stock or other wise ill have to choose between 3 .... and the 2jz was swapped with tech 2 kit so it seems fine very close to firewall i know its a lil screwd up but 2jz is smooooooooooth

Lol wish I would have read this a week ago. Spent a good portion of the day ripping apart the rear subframe to replace all bushing with ES Master Kit. I will say that the OEM bushings are much more stout then the ES. I may in the future replace them again if I have any issues. The messed up part is I started ripping the OEM bushings out and realized most of them were in great shape...FML.

PS: Yes they are an extreme pain in the ass to change. You will need tools, knowledge, and lots of patience. Thankfully my uncles shop has about $1 Million worth of tools so you are bound to find something that works.

PSS: Croustibat.....where did you end up purchasing the rose/ball jointed arms from?

the problem is i would have kept stock but for 2jz it needs more grip handling and less prone to bushes, before any power driveline should be strong and perfect to hold the massive torque.. ps. its getting changed after 23 years, suspension guy said its opening for first time i was like wow

[ke70 sr20det]

Polyurethane FTL.
You don't need to upgrade the rear sway bar. Most of them are larger than the stock ones and will cause your car to oversteer more, assuming you haven't already changed the front one.

the front one is stock but when the 2jz installed i had to extend the sway bar from middle to clear the sump ... idk most ppl say change rear sway for drag some say dont kinda confuse here...

You guys are pussy's.

I wouldn't call it fun, but installing the ES master kit wasn't that bad..

The results were worth it...

installation is not a issue here i just wanted to know which company gives more bushes or they come in same quantity in s13 i was checking listing on ebay aswell prothane seem they give 2 3 bushes more so is it correct or not ....

i just ordered whiteline cause i heard good things about them.

i also checked forum hearing good things about whiteline and progress auto if it helps in drag race then ill go for it otherwise ill stay stock

[The Dude]

the front one is stock but when the 2jz installed i had to extend the sway bar from middle to clear the sump ... idk most ppl say change rear sway for drag some say dont kinda confuse here...


I have heard that, but if you will be driving the car on the street with 500+ whp then you'll probably want to limit oversteer as much as you can. If you think it will make that much of a difference then just install the bar when you are going to the track and put the stock one back on afterwards.

Polyurethane bushings should not be used in an application which requires them to move, so using the master bushing kit is not a good idea unless you're going to install zerk fittings to grease the arm bushings on a regular basis. You would be better off buying some aftermarket rubber bushings (Megan Racing is all I know of) or spherical bushings.

[Croustibat]

Lol wish I would have read this a week ago. Spent a good portion of the day ripping apart the rear subframe to replace all bushing with ES Master Kit. I will say that the OEM bushings are much more stout then the ES. I may in the future replace them again if I have any issues. The messed up part is I started ripping the OEM bushings out and realized most of them were in great shape...FML.

PS: Yes they are an extreme pain in the ass to change. You will need tools, knowledge, and lots of patience. Thankfully my uncles shop has about $1 Million worth of tools so you are bound to find something that works.

PSS: Croustibat.....where did you end up purchasing the rose/ball jointed arms from?

I am not satisfied at all with the build quality of the arms bought, it looks like the company screw people who live too far to send the parts back as it looks like their US customers had mostly no problem with these. While i knew that for that price i'd surely get poor metal quality, i didnt think i would get dangerously made items.

I had to do a lot of work to have something that fits correctly (oval and loose misalignment spacers, tapers fitting in lower knuckle fitting had wrong angle, shitty welds my grandma could have done better, lots of play in adjusters and so on) , and even then i am not too confident about their durability... so i wont say their name again. If you really want to know, i already talked about it on another thread.

What you want to know is this: you get what you pay for. i bought cheap, and thought i would get cheap yet functionnal. It was just cheap, dangerous items, provided as bolt ons which clearly were not.

i had to pay a lot more to get it to work, and i am afraid it wont work long. Want durable and real bolt on? get SPL or parts shop max, or do it yourself with QA1 joints.

[2muchboost]

Gotcha...thanks for the info.

I myself have a 2jz powerplant that I am dropping in soon. I have installed Yamato Garage RUCA and Battle Version Toe Rods. I also replaced the Diff Bushing with solid ones from SPL. I did not replace the Tension Rod bushings or Sway Bar bushings but everything else was replaced with ES. I did that for the same reasons mentioned above, I did not want to install Poly on anything that needed to move around much.

In the front I will be doing the same, only replacing bushings which provide support and do not require movement. I have a SIKKY sway bar spacer up front so I did not need to modify anything on the Front Sway Bar.

So do you think I will be ok based on the information above? I will be driving around in mid 500hp daily trim mostly and will only see the track 2-5 times a year as I do not have much time to play.

Thanks in advance for the feedback.

The Dude I am in the same boat. Some guys I know run great times in completely stock chassis and some say to remove the rear Sway Bar at the track or loosen it up. I think I will keep mine in place and remove it if it is absolutely necessary.

[Croustibat]

You should be ok with that, dont worry. Just remember the 2jz is a heavy beast, the car will be understeering. Whiteline sway bars have one great feature: they are adjustable.

[Mikester]

hi everyone , i wanted to ask question regarding two things which i dint know

i am ordering master bushing kit so which one is better prothane or energy suspension, i know both are good but main problem is do they give same amount of bushes i was checking some where on SRT forums that prothane gives one or two bush more in their kit .. explain this

secondly i wanted to ask about rear sway bar i was looking at tanabe,whitline and progress autp .. is it needed for drag and street car . i dont do auto x and drift sessions ...

car is nissan silvia s13 89 model with hicas running 2jz with 62mm single. will be running for 550wheels

plz dont put flame suit on i checked zilvia before posting ere .. feedback is appreciated

thank you

To answer, I recommend the RS-R bushing kit. I have it and I love it. It is a full kit (made in Japan by the ones who know S-chassis best) with all front and rear bushings. It makes the ride a little bit tighter, and more responsive. For subframe bushings, I used Energy bushings. Again, they tightened up the ride nicely.

For a drag/street car, any aftermarket sway bar will be fine. I have a Tanabe sway bar in front and an OEM 180SX/Silvia sway bar in the rear; they are perfect... and the polyurethane bushings will definitely help during launch. If you want to do the rear, Tanabe sway bars are really nice and will work well for you if you don't want to keep the OEM sway bar. For you, oversteer is not really going to be a problem. To help minimize flex and keep the car going straight, you can also get a set of fender braces and a Nismo power brace.

Also, I recommend you dispose of the HICAS. I had HICAS on my GT-R and it was pretty scary launching it and it felt loose while trying to maintain a straight line. Putting in a Nismo lock-out bar was inexpensive and made the car feel much more solid- especially during hard launches & acceleration.

[racepar1]

To answer, I recommend the RS-R bushing kit. I have it and I love it. It is a full kit (made in Japan by the ones who know S-chassis best) with all front and rear bushings. It makes the ride a little bit tighter, and more responsive. For subframe bushings, I used Energy bushings. Again, they tightened up the ride nicely.


The RSR bushings are made in the USA by energy suspension. It's the SAME bushing kit. I know this for a fact because I've installed RSR bushings and energy bushings. They've all got the same part numbers and I think it even says made by energy suspension right on the box.


For the OP:
The most IMPORTANT thing about urethane bushings is lubrication. If you're going to go through all that trouble, make sure that you install zerk fittings so they can be greased regularly. I think there is a write-up here and I know there is one on nissanroadracing.com for the zerk fitting install. I've just bought another 240 that still has my original energy suspension bushings from like 10 years ago on it so life is not an issue.

As for swaybars, DON'T UPGRADE THE REAR! When I was doing track/autocross I used to run without ANY rear swaybar on the car at all. Even for drifting, a rear swaybar upgrade is not necessary. A larger front swaybar is nice to have though. I would reccomend the Progress swaybar. It comes with spherical endlinks, is 3-way adjustable, and does not have the SR oil pan clearence issues of the whiteline. If adjustmwnt isn't on your priority list then most of the JDM brand swaybars will suffice. Just don't get the ginormous godspeed 30mm bar or similar, that's too much stiffness.

[2muchboost]

good information, thanks to everyone including the OP for making the thread.

I am glad to hear that I should be fine with my setup. I would hate to have to go through that headache again.

[Mikester]

The RSR bushings are made in the USA by energy suspension. It's the SAME bushing kit. I know this for a fact because I've installed RSR bushings and energy bushings. They've all got the same part numbers and I think it even says made by energy suspension right on the box.


LOL just went and looked at the box- had no idea. Sorry for the misinfo. Still been a great kit.

For oil pan clearances- his setup is a 2JZ, so yea, he may have even more clearance issues w/sway bars up front.

[Matej]

The HICAS sway bar is already the second thickest, after an R32 GTR one, as far as direct bolt-on OEM Nissan sway bars go.

[racepar1]

The HICAS sway bar is already the second thickest, after an R32 GTR one, as far as direct bolt-on OEM Nissan sway bars go.

Rear swaybar diameters:

US base: 15mm solid
US SE: 17mm solid
US HICAS: 21mm solid
JDM: 21mm hollow

I'm not going to bother listing other swaybars from other models that fit, S13 stock only.

[Croustibat]

[...] Just don't get the ginormous godspeed 30mm bar or similar, that's too much stiffness.

I have these, and can confirm they are too stiff :rant:
I guess maybe for drifting they could be good, but to grip ... the car is really snappy with them. They are on my "change when you get some time and find good ones" list .


I did not know about progress bars, will have a look at them.

[racepar1]

I have these, and can confirm they are too stiff :rant:
I guess maybe for drifting they could be good, but to grip ... the car is really snappy with them. They are on my "change when you get some time and find good ones" list .


I did not know about progress bars, will have a look at them.

Take the rear swaybar completely off the car and let it collect dust somewhere, you'll be MUCH happier! LOL!

The progress bars are NOT cheap, but they're the best that I know of. You should definitely have a look at them!

[nismostormtrooper]

Racepar1

You said that the 30mm Godspeed sway bar is too thick and stiff but yet the progress sway bar you suggest is 30mm as well? I'm confused here lol...

[Croustibat]

they are deffo not cheap, but they are still cheaper than whiteline ones...

Just the droplinks are worth 100-150$ on their own. Whiteline charges less, but ships with standard PU droplinks ...

nismostormtrooper > progress sways look to be 26 or 27mm, not 30 (or i did read that wrong)

[nismostormtrooper]

Here's a link for the front one

Anti-roll bars Nissan 240SX 95-98 Nissan 240SX Front anti-roll bar - Out of Stock Progress Technology: Anti-roll bars, sport springs, coil-overs, camber kits and more since 1995! (http://www.progressauto.com/products/sfID1/127/sfID2/47/sfID3/123/productID/415)

[nismostormtrooper]

Haha I guess i should pay attention to the fact that the OP has a S13 and yes they are 27mm.

[racepar1]

Racepar1

You said that the 30mm Godspeed sway bar is too thick and stiff but yet the progress sway bar you suggest is 30mm as well? I'm confused here lol...

The stiffness of the front bar isn't the issue, it's the rear. The godspeed rear bar is as thick as most aftermarket front swaybars (28mm iirc). That's about double the thickness that you really need.

[Croustibat]

The OEM rear swaybar is 15mm ... are you really sure it is all that is needed ? i am tempted to reinstall it ...

[ke70 sr20det]

thank you everyone for positive answers and some others got a little help to.. i read it all and gained some knowledge from you people but still 1 question remains

which bushing kit gives more bushing in their box and which is soft which is hard between both

[Mikester]

which bushing kit gives more bushing in their box and which is soft which is hard between both

As far as who has "more in the box," they all come with a FULL kit (everything you need).

I have the RS-R kit- it gives every suspension bushing you need, and has 2 different front swaybar bushing sizes to accommodate the different model/type thicknesses. The Energy kit gives the exact same.

I have no experience with the S13 Prothane kit, but the picture shown looks like it has one more swaybar choice than the RS-R/Energy kits.

As far as stiffness goes; installation is very likely the exact same between them... they are all polyurethane bushing sets... so my guess is that they are all extremely similar in stiffness. I know you are looking for answers, not guesses... but I wonder if you are maybe overthinking your choice. Any one of them will suit a 500+hp car; and going from rubber to urethane, the ride will not be TOO stiff compared to stock.

Khoda Hafez,

Mike

[2muchboost]

Oh BTW if you order ES Master Bushing Kit it DOES NOT come with the Subframe Bushings in case you were interested in swapping those out. The 7.1117 Rear Sub Frame Bushings kit is what you would need to get, includes the 4 subframe bushings you need for that. Its another $60+ for the 7.1117 kit. Just in case you thought the Master Bushing Kit had every bushing needed lol.....

[racepar1]

The OEM rear swaybar is 15mm ... are you really sure it is all that is needed ? i am tempted to reinstall it ...

Like I said, I used to run NO rear swaybar AT ALL and I much preferred the feel of the car like that. You have to understand how a sway bar works. When the outside suspension is compressed the swaybar is actually lifting up on the inside wheel. This causes the inside wheel to become unweighted which promotes oversteer. Running without a rear sway makes the loading on the rear tires more even which increases rear grip. The s-chasis primary handling concern is on-throttle oversteer, removing the rear sway is a band-aid for fixing that issue. Running without a rear swaybar is pretty common on certain tracks with the formula cars that I have experience with as well. Don't get me wrong it's better to run a rear swaybar if you can, but it doesn't always work better.

thank you everyone for positive answers and some others got a little help to.. i read it all and gained some knowledge from you people but still 1 question remains

which bushing kit gives more bushing in their box and which is soft which is hard between both

Both kits come with the same amount of bushings. I would think that the prothane bushings might be a little softer, from my experience with BMW prothane bushings. In the end though I doubt you would notice any difference.

[travypoo]

I have always ran Hicas bars with ES bushings, car feels awesome. Just ordered front and rear progressive bars though!

[ke70 sr20det]

feedback time zilvians

i have now fitted the prothane master bushing kit,fitting of bushings went good and my car was hicas so mostly all bushes were perfect fit so 8 pc of toe arm bushes were left and hicas uses 17mm sway bush so 15mm were also a bonus and i dint put the subframe inserts ....

the moment of truth

they are amazing car feel alot better ,its stiff and its smooth like energy suspension and not so bad like people discuss its how many percent stiffer then what so ever brand .. es or prothane its the first thing to do. i dont have super silky roads, we have bumpy roads and speed bumps after every other 2 3 minutes.. hope this helps

my feed back for prothane bushes ........