LCA's fall victim to energy suspension (2004 thread updated with 2009 information!)

[240Stilo]

I was under my car replacing the cat and decided to check out the tension rods after remembering how other threads have mentioned them cracking due to poly bushings. I found a crack on the first side and that was pretty bad on its own. Then, I look at the other side and see that it's ready to come off cuz the crack goes all the way around the bolts holding the tensionrod to LCA.

If they decide to give what will happen? I won't be waiting until this happens, but I'm curious and I will be ordering new LCA's and tension rods, maybe something adjustable who knows.

[old_s13]

i havent heard anyone having this problem with the whiteline bushings btw.

- mike

[240Stilo]

I'm pretty sure its the design of the bushing. Energy Suspension has a big block while whiteline is angled more to the geometry of how the tension rods move. Thank for the info that was another question I was thinking about. I'm guessing adjustable tension rods won't give me that problem either.

[gsracer]

thats f***ed up i have energy suspension on my s14, is this a common problem?? is there any thign that can be done , i would think that ajustable tension rods with the solid metal would be worse on the lower control arms thogh?? whats up ..

[The ROMAN]

I've heard of this happening alot to stock arms. Aftermarket shouldn't be as bad, also PDM sells arms/rods with bushings pressed in already.

[Halz]

Unrelated, but heres an illustration of what happens when the LCA does break:

http://halzmann2.homestead.com/files/09.jpg
http://halzmann2.homestead.com/files/11.jpg
http://halzmann2.homestead.com/files/18.jpg
http://halzmann2.homestead.com/files/27.jpg
http://halzmann2.homestead.com/files/40.jpg

Hydroplaned at 85mph (in the 'fast' lane) when I went over a short overpass that had collected water between the expansion joints that was in the middle of a decreasing radius bend. Put 'two off', over a 4" curb at a shallow angle, and went through the edges of some bushes, little reflectors, etc.. Dropped back down onto the shoulder, and the wheel was on its side under the car (where the dents are).
Very exciting!!
Low-depth Azenis are not really very good rain tires.. especially in surprise standing water.. especially at 85mph.. around a turn.. So. Beware the Rain Gods, and physics!

Oh, and does anyone have a fender? Color-code TH1?

[gsracer]

so great this seems like a big f***ing problem anybody got a soulution???

[black s13]

umm, spherical bushing tc rods. or whitelines, or ive seen somepeople drill holes all the way around the bushing, to soften it up.

[240Stilo]

I will just shave off some of the bushing to shape it more like the whiteline bushing so it's more like a cone and less like a big cylinder of poly. This should give it more leeway but until then I found an LCA for the driver side which is the worst one.

[mrmephistopheles]

i havent heard anyone having this problem with the whiteline bushings btw.

- mike

I have.. luckily, not me.


Halz: that request for a fender that color will be a tall one, seeing as how that's a rare color and it was only 89-90.

[240Stilo]

Well I got some pics together from the lower control arm now that i have it replaced. As you can see they were ready to go. I decided to shave the poly bushings down in order to let them move around a little more. We'll see how it goes, so far so good.

[gsracer]

gues what guys i looked under my car today and sure enough cracked in between the two holes, after 6 months of street use, and 1 auto cross. with stock ride hieght the whole time. Im gonna replace them this weekend with some used ones i got, im gonna shave the bushing and drill a couple holes in to it like 5 i guess, like a revovler hope fully this will fix it.

now has any one heard of this happening with sepherical t/c rods, i wouldnt think so because they wont bind the suspension because there sepherical and such , but now that i think about it, they are medal and have no give whats so ever, what do you guys think,,,,

[Var]

Before i bought the bushings from pdm i actually e-mailed don nimi and he says he has never heard of any problems like that with the 240, only the datsun 510 cause the 240 has solid steel tension rods. He says even in front end crashed he hasnt seen one break, only bend. And i would also HOPE that the spherical ones wouldnt break or else they are a waste of money,

[gsracer]

Before i bought the bushings from pdm i actually e-mailed don nimi and he says he has never heard of any problems like that with the 240, only the datsun 510 cause the 240 has solid steel tension rods. He says even in front end crashed he hasnt seen one break, only bend. And i would also HOPE that the spherical ones wouldnt break or else they are a waste of money,


its not the tension rods that break its the lower control arms that break

[Var]

ahh. so if you got spherical tension rods would your LCA's be more likely to break?

[gsracer]

exactttllyyy!!!

i would think NO because the sepherical bearing would allow the LCA to move normall with out binding, but then again it will be metal to metal so more stress transfred in to the LCA. thoughtsss????/

[Var]

i got a thought! buy SPL pro LCA's. A steal at only 600 bucks!

[Replicant_S14]

exactttllyyy!!!
.. but then again it will be metal to metal so more stress transfred in to the LCA. thoughtsss????/

Probably, but the damaged that I've seen to LCAs looks more fatique oriented than impact. Sorta like bending a paperclip back and forth until it breaks. The TC rod, heim joint type or not, is a flat bar on the LCA end. I guess idealy you'd want another axis at the LCA attachment point. Like a ball joint or something like that.

[gsracer]

i guess my reall question hear is will this damage still occur with aftermarkey T/C rods, because even tohugh im gonna shave and drill my bushing i dont want to risk it.

[SimpleS14]

wow...I have never seen something like that happen before. So is this the same case with other T/C rods...such as TIEN and SPL?

[sykikchimp]

This is not a problem with spherical bearings.

The problem with the poly bushings is that poly doesn't have the ability to flex around an axis like rubber or spherical bearings would. SO, wwhen the LCA moves through it's arc, the bushing resist's the motion up and down b/c it is clamped, and held in place b/w the mounting points. Thus causing the T/C rod mount to bind on the LCA, and eventually rip free. Unless the poly bushing can rotate on the metal insert it will cause this problem, no matter who makes it.

I've read that drilling the holes in it like a revolver allows the bushing to flex much better, and makes them safer, but if the mount is still clamping on the edges of the bushing, you'll still get binding. I would think drilling them would also lessen their effectiveness of maintaining suspension geometry under load, but probably not enough to matter.

Something else to help prevent this is to make sure you really lube up the metal insert before you put it inside the bushings. Like lots, and lots of grease. Poly has to be able to move freely.

Either way you go there are pro's and cons.

This is the reason Nismo uses hard rubber bushings instead of poly. Rubber allows axial twist.

edit- just thought I would add that poly LCA bushings further exacerbate this problem.

[gsracer]

This is not a problem with spherical bearings.

The problem with the poly bushings is that poly doesn't have the ability to flex around an axis like rubber or spherical bearings would. SO, wwhen the LCA moves through it's arc, the bushing resist's the motion up and down b/c it is clamped, and held in place b/w the mounting points. Thus causing the T/C rod mount to bind on the LCA, and eventually rip free. Unless the poly bushing can rotate on the metal insert it will cause this problem, no matter who makes it.

I've read that drilling the holes in it like a revolver allows the bushing to flex much better, and makes them safer, but if the mount is still clamping on the edges of the bushing, you'll still get binding. I would think drilling them would also lessen their effectiveness of maintaining suspension geometry under load, but probably not enough to matter.

Something else to help prevent this is to make sure you really lube up the metal insert before you put it inside the bushings. Like lots, and lots of grease. Poly has to be able to move freely.

Either way you go there are pro's and cons.

This is the reason Nismo uses hard rubber bushings instead of poly. Rubber allows axial twist.

edit- just thought I would add that poly LCA bushings further exacerbate this problem.

'
thanks for the response i will be drilling them i was thinking 5 holes in total with one about every 70 degrees ,

in addition to this i was gonna take on my grinder and grind the part that clamps on tho the bushing more conical so that the only part that touches the mount is the metal insert in the middle where the bolt is. what do you think

[Var]

so i got poly t/c rods and poly LCA's and i just bought 2-way lsd to drift with. hmmm maybe i should change to power brace/spherical rods before some shit goes down.

[240Stilo]

gsracer: I'm pretty sure you'd be fine just shaving off the sides.

When I took a look at the tension rod bracket I saw that the poly bushing really grinded down the bracket to until the silver showed. You could tell that it was the back semi-circle half of the bushing that was really going to work. From this I assume I could have been safe enough by just shaving the back half but whatever, it was fun watching the poly fly when it met the wirebrush on the bench grinder. Haha.

If you do the revolver type hole drilling won't it cause for more travel forward and backward from the LCA from hard braking or accel? I'm assuming it would if the holes are drilled large enough.

[gsracer]

im gonna do the holes small enough just to soften it up a bit

[SimpleS14]

newbie question: what are spherical rods? are SPLs spherical?

[sykikchimp]

Spherical rod ends, rod bearings, Heim Joints, Pillowball's... all the same thing.

http://www.monstertower.com/images/balljoint.jpg

Gracer - those are both good ideas.

[SimpleS14]

Spherical rod ends, rod bearings, Heim Joints, Pillowball's... all the same thing.

http://www.monstertower.com/images/balljoint.jpg



..... :confused: .......

[240Stilo]

UPDATE!

I e-mailed courtesyparts.com about my problem with the bushings just to give them warning that the poly bushings might be causing the same problem to other customers. They responded by saying, "We believe that you have other problems. The bushings are urethane and would give long before the metal would." Soo, now I'm lost because I'm still pretty sure it was due to the poly bushings that my LCA was broken. Any ideas of what else might have made this occur?

[taks]

Question:
In which way does the bushing bind or restrict movement
From side to side? or in a 'rotational' way?

If the cracks are results from the side to side bind,
are LCAs in danger from spherical bearings when the ball is pressed against one side of the rod creating restriction of movement towards one way?
After installation of adj. tension rods and putting the car back on ground, the rod was pressed against one side and needed readjustment on ground.

[sykikchimp]

It's a rotational problem.

I drew up a quick diagram in paint. kinda crappy, but you should get the idea.

I've talked to whiteline tech's about this, and they said this is a problem with ANY poly bushings. this is why you ALWAYS have to grease up your poly bushings liberally when you install them. The bevel on whitelines bushings helps emensly as well. Most of the problems I've heard about are from ES owners.

[andrave]

I have whiteline and I drove on them a year and took them off (switched cars) and there was no damage at all.
They have been pretty good for me.

[Var]

the problem would be worse with stock suspension right? stiff bushings and a lot more travel = more leverage

[sykikchimp]

I would think so.

[ZenkiS14]

What is the advantage of having polyurethane in the bushings of the tension rods? What is their function that having poly helps?

[sykikchimp]

crappy stock rubber bushings die a lot, and they allow toe changes as they distort from tension/compression loads. toe changes = unpredictable handling.

[andrave]

grease the shit out of them when you put it on. if you grease it, it will pivot where there is metal on metal contact inside the sleeve. I think.

[240Stilo]

grease the shit out of them when you put it on. if you grease it, it will pivot where there is metal on metal contact inside the sleeve. I think.

Yeah I thought it could move up and down from the metal cylinder where the screw goes through. I have to move it from there to install it but then again I don't think I torque it down before I attatch it to the lca.

[mike13]

Question:
In which way does the bushing bind or restrict movement
From side to side? or in a 'rotational' way?

If the cracks are results from the side to side bind,
are LCAs in danger from spherical bearings when the ball is pressed against one side of the rod creating restriction of movement towards one way?
After installation of adj. tension rods and putting the car back on ground, the rod was pressed against one side and needed readjustment on ground.
excellent question... which i wish someone had the answer to. Mine are the same way, with the pillowball end cocked over to one side. My alignment tech said not worry about it, but i still do.
Anyone know if this creates a problem?

[mike13]

here's a diagram i made to illustrate the problem.
http://users.adelphia.net/~mrosswog/images/tensionRods.gif

[andrave]

thats how mine are too. thats how they have been always. and from the few factory rubber ones in decent shape, thats what htey look like for the most part.

[240Stilo]

I doubt there's a problem with them being cocked to the side. The rods are still doing their job since they're keeping the lca from moving forward and backwards.

[[email protected]]

excellent question... which i wish someone had the answer to. Mine are the same way, with the pillowball end cocked over to one side. My alignment tech said not worry about it, but i still do.
Anyone know if this creates a problem?

we would recommend resetting the rod end so it is not cocked to one side, that way it would have the full range of movement/misalignment unlike the urethane bushings. You can do this without affecting your alignment, just loosen the lock nut on the side of the rod end, twist the rod end to center it, then retighten the lock nut.

[mike13]

we would recommend resetting the rod end so it is not cocked to one side, that way it would have the full range of movement/misalignment unlike the urethane bushings. You can do this without affecting your alignment, just loosen the lock nut on the side of the rod end, twist the rod end to center it, then retighten the lock nut.
I've tried that several times and for some reason it keeps going back to that position. Do i have to straighten it while the suspension is under full load?

[andrave]

you CAN'T straigthen it. something to consider though, is when you jack the car up the control arm is at full droop. and tahts what you are looking at.

[ixfxi]

http://zilvia.net/f/attachments/chat/6825d1081261642-lcas-fall-victim-energy-suspension-polybushdescription.jpg

It's a rotational problem.

I drew up a quick diagram in paint. kinda crappy, but you should get the idea.

I've talked to whiteline tech's about this, and they said this is a problem with ANY poly bushings. this is why you ALWAYS have to grease up your poly bushings liberally when you install them. The bevel on whitelines bushings helps emensly as well. Most of the problems I've heard about are from ES owners.

bump for an old thread, but im going to go back and eat my words here. brand doesnt matter, whiteline, ES, etc.. anything polyurethane is garbage IMO and shouldnt be used on any street car.

after what, 4 years I just pulled all the polyurethane bushings off of my suspension arms and noticed that the bushings were in perfect shape from the exterior view. however, the above illustration says it perfectly.. the wear is on the inside of the bushing (which is minimal) but still, requires CONSTANT greasing for these fucking things to be remotely effective and prevent binding. without grease, the suspension is much more limited and probably cannot move to its fullest.

i'll post some pics later in the week showing a closeup of the bushings and the metal tubes that go inside the bushings, you can see that they rub against each other and will wear each other out. the inside of the bushing looked like it had some molten parts of poly, not a lot but i imagine it only gets worse as time progresses.



i havent heard anyone having this problem with the whiteline bushings btw.

- mike

i miss my old SN.

[Enna]

Well this has made me happy that I am completely replacing all of my suspension with new parts lol. Spherical bearings FTW.

[Koopa Troopa]

Poly bushings are perfectly fine for up and down but not for left and right as their design does not allow it. For cars with trailing arms and double wishbone they're perfectly fine but for multi-link and MacPhereson strut I'd look somewhere else.

[ixfxi]

koopa


thats not the point. lots of the arms that just go up and down were worn INSIDE the bushing where the metal shaft touches the bushing. this is the part that requires constant greasing (which most people, ide say all people dont grease).

[95se]

http://zilvia.net/f/attachments/chat/6825d1081261642-lcas-fall-victim-energy-suspension-polybushdescription.jpg



bump for an old thread, but im going to go back and eat my words here. brand doesnt matter, whiteline, ES, etc.. anything polyurethane is garbage IMO and shouldnt be used on any street car.

after what, 4 years I just pulled all the polyurethane bushings off of my suspension arms and noticed that the bushings were in perfect shape from the exterior view. however, the above illustration says it perfectly.. the wear is on the inside of the bushing (which is minimal) but still, requires CONSTANT greasing for these fucking things to be remotely effective and prevent binding. without grease, the suspension is much more limited and probably cannot move to its fullest.

i'll post some pics later in the week showing a closeup of the bushings and the metal tubes that go inside the bushings, you can see that they rub against each other and will wear each other out. the inside of the bushing looked like it had some molten parts of poly, not a lot but i imagine it only gets worse as time progresses.





i miss my old SN.

Thats not correct.. its the twisting motion that the bushing doesn't allow. When the LCA comes up the rod comes up as well but it also needs to be able to twist counter and clockwise. Owner of SPL showed me a diagram on it on this form and it finally made sense to me. To eliminate this problem and to keep from having sloppy steering the best thing to do is go to a bearing end rod which is a dual shaft design. I replaced my TC rods with SPL's yr and half ago and so far no cracking The LCA's are thin as well so thats part of the problem but if the stress is relieved off of them where the rod moves freely with the LCA it will at least cut down on the cracking issues. I will see if I can find his reply with the diagram.

[MeanS14]

Im a little confused after reading this thread. So it would be bad to buy the Energy Suspension Polyurethane Bushing kits right!?
http://www.frsport.com/images/detailed_images/Energy_7.18107R_1.jpg (http://www.frsport.com_energysuspension_7.18107r/)

Also on the problems with the tension rods, am I ok with SPL ones?

[95se]

Im a little confused after reading this thread. So it would be bad to buy the Energy Suspension Polyurethane Bushing kits right!?
http://www.frsport.com/images/detailed_images/Energy_7.18107R_1.jpg (http://www.frsport.com_energysuspension_7.18107r/)

Also on the problems with the tension rods, am I ok with SPL ones?

I don't know about the other bushings since Ive had no experience with them but I would not using a bushing end TC rod. I think the SPL rods will do fine. At least Im ok with them so far after a 1.5yrs driven on terrible roads with bad struts.

[enkei2k]

damn it i was gonna get ES master bushing kit too...now i'm scared for my life. and i thought that ES was an 'upgrade' too.

[clark]

don't be pussies, get the ES master bushing kit. but DO get spherical TC rods so you don't break your LCAs as stated in the first page.

btw i've had the ES tc rod bushings for over 1.5 yrs now and have not had a problem.

figured i'd get my 2c in there.

[KFLS14]

To my knowledge ES revised the tension rod bushing. (not sure exactly when but they did)Instead of being 1 piece solid it's not 2 pieces and comes with lube. (

[aznpoopy]

it's three piece alex.

only a narrow center slice of the bushing is polyurethane, the sides are now normal rubber to allow twisting. they've always come with lube, for every bushing pair in the set. the lube does not stay in there though; you need to re-lubricate periodically (PITA).

the revision has been in place for quite some time. i had them on my car at least 2 years ago.

regarding the master set:
the LCA and RLCA bushings are still fine imo. naturally sway bar and all that is a-ok.
T/C rod is questionable; but it's not cracking anything in light of the new revisions.
i would seriously think twice about using them with rear multilink or in the rear knuckle.

[INeedNewTires]

i would seriously think twice about using them with rear multilink or in the rear knuckle.


This was my next question... I have full heim joint SPL shit on the rear of my car but stock rear hub, Well i'm planning on upgrading to Z32 hub with the press-in spherical SPL lower z32 shock mount bushing. Well i figured why not go ahead and stiffen up the rest of it, so i got the poly rear bushing set.

Since they are not going in the arms, and the arms have heim's, there shouldnt be any problems with binding on the hub part of the arm right?

also what kind of grease should i put in there?

[aznpoopy]

the arms still pivot around the connections in the knuckle.

i really don't know if they will bind if you have a heim on one end and a poly on the other. if i had to guess, i would say they probably could.

if money is no object, consider getting the spl press-in spherical bushings for the knuckle.
http://www.splparts.com/main4/parts/NissanShared/Suspension/Multilink/SPLMultiLinkBushing.jpg

besides that, i think ixfxi suggested nismo hard rubbers in another thread rather than es poly.

as for grease, your ES poly set should have come with a little tube of grease. after you use that up that i figure any type of bearing grease would be adequate. if you're stuck on es grease, es actually sells the grease by itself; iirc it's some kind of special proprietary grease. marketing hype or real? who knows.
Energy Suspension Formula 5 Prelube - Bushing Lube (http://www.energysuspensionparts.com/Energy-Suspension-Formula-5-Prelube-Bushing-Lube.asp)

[INeedNewTires]

if money is no object, consider getting the spl press-in spherical bushings for the knuckle.
http://www.splparts.com/main4/parts/NissanShared/Suspension/Multilink/SPLMultiLinkBushing.jpg



Money is always 'an object'... I about choked when i had to drop the 300 on the one pair of bushings i got. but after talking to Kuah he said that one is very important because of the S14 having a greater angle on the rear shocks than the Z32. The other spherical's i just cant justify because of the cost. Got the whole rear bushing set for $60 which is less than half the cost of 1 pair if bushings from SPL. Dont get me wrong SPL is the shit and i know those would be the best route but i'm going to try this out and post up how it goes.

[singlecamslam]

question, so the solution to this would be to either buy Nismo LCA bushings or grease? lots of it? Because i'm running SPL TC rods and installing nismo LCA bushings, does that sound like a good combo?

[ixfxi]

Thats not correct.. its the twisting motion that the bushing doesn't allow.

I know the original post is referring to the TC rods, but this is not what I am referring to in my post. I am talking about all the little bushings in the rear control arms, spindle, etc. This is where you run into this problem:

ELEPHANT RACING Tech Topic, Polyurethane Bushings and Friction (http://www.elephantracing.com/techtopic/polyurethanefriction.htm)

I removed my polyurethane bushings and noticed a significant amount of wear within the bushings where the metal shaft/tube rotates in the bushing crevice. The polyurethane looked like it started to clump together and tear a bit, not a significant amount but enough for me to call it quits and move onto the nismo bushings.

Now, I received a bunch of nismo bushings several weeks ago and get this, the ones that were supposedly for the lower control arms did not fit. not only did they not fit, but they looked (and measured) damn near identical with the ones that fit the upper arms and spindle! I'll have to snap some photos.

Does anyone have part numbers for the nismo bushings for the lower control arms by any chance?

Thanks

[orion::S14]

To my knowledge ES revised the tension rod bushing. (not sure exactly when but they did)Instead of being 1 piece solid it's not 2 pieces and comes with lube. (


it's three piece alex.
only a narrow center slice of the bushing is polyurethane, the sides are now normal rubber to allow twisting. they've always come with lube, for every bushing pair in the set. the lube does not stay in there though; you need to re-lubricate periodically (PITA).


I wanted to quote this so it didn;t get lost in the "OMG! Energy Suspension parts will ruin my car!" comments.

The new T/C rod bushing are perfectly fine. They realized there was a problem, redesigned them, and they now allow the flex that's needed so your front LCA won't crack.

Yes, spherical bearings are better...but we all knew that. But the new ES bushings, and the master kit...ARE FINE.

- Brian

[enkei2k]

as for grease, your ES poly set should have come with a little tube of grease

good information, i had no idea about that. i guess i'll end up getting ES master kit with some peak performance subframe spacers to go with it. or do i even need the spacers at all if i'm getting the master kit? better safe than sorry with the subframe spacers?

[CrimsonRockett]

Now, I received a bunch of nismo bushings several weeks ago and get this, the ones that were supposedly for the lower control arms did not fit. not only did they not fit, but they looked (and measured) damn near identical with the ones that fit the upper arms and spindle! I'll have to snap some photos.

Does anyone have part numbers for the nismo bushings for the lower control arms by any chance?


Since I'm in the process of ordering Nismo bushings myself for the spare subframe I have, I managed to get these numbers from a worker @ Nissan.

NISMO SUBFRAME BUSHINGS
PT # 55400-RS590

NISMO REAR AXLE&LOWER CONTROL ARM LINK
PT# 55157-RS580

NISMO REAR SPINDLE BUSHING
PT# 55157-RS521

[aznpoopy]

this website also has the part # information
Nismoparts.com - Your #1 Source for OEM Parts and Accessories (http://www.nismoparts.com/catalog/?section=517)
(add to cart, then view cart, it will display the part #)

good information, i had no idea about that. i guess i'll end up getting ES master kit with some peak performance subframe spacers to go with it. or do i even need the spacers at all if i'm getting the master kit? better safe than sorry with the subframe spacers?

i can tell you from firsthand experience that the master kit does not include subframe bushings. if you have subframe issues you will need to buy the spacers or bushings separately.

question, so the solution to this would be to either buy Nismo LCA bushings or grease? lots of it? Because i'm running SPL TC rods and installing nismo LCA bushings, does that sound like a good combo?

afaik the nismo bushings don't have this problem. at any rate, IMO polyurethane bushings are fine for the front and rear LCAs. i have ES bushings in my front LCA and never noticed any problems like you get in the rear multilink assembly.

[ixfxi]

afaik the nismo bushings don't have this problem. at any rate, IMO polyurethane bushings are fine for the front and rear LCAs. i have ES bushings in my front LCA and never noticed any problems like you get in the rear multilink assembly.

I have urethane in the front LCA which I will pull out soon, i am still working on the back end of the car and dont want to start the front (yet). but i can assure you if you look at the shaft that slides into the bushing and the inside of your bushings, you will see wear. you will need to lube them quite often (i would imagine every 6 months minimum) to ensure that they work as intended... hence the reason i am ditching them.


Since I'm in the process of ordering Nismo bushings myself for the spare subframe I have, I managed to get these numbers from a worker @ Nissan.

NISMO SUBFRAME BUSHINGS
PT # 55400-RS590

NISMO REAR AXLE&LOWER CONTROL ARM LINK
PT# 55157-RS580

NISMO REAR SPINDLE BUSHING
PT# 55157-RS521

edit: deleted

[Bigsyke]

If usually the ES only allows rotation on 1 axis, shouldnt the metal casing be rotating around the actual bolt? I would think as long as you use antiseize you shouldnt have too much of a binding issue.

I see rubber as more of an issue when the bolt seizes, such as the LCA. Those were torn because the bolt was seized to the casing, and the up/down movement was binding in the rubber.

I do reccommend ES LCA bushings, they work great.

[samms95s14se]

excellent question... which i wish someone had the answer to. Mine are the same way, with the pillowball end cocked over to one side. My alignment tech said not worry about it, but i still do.
Anyone know if this creates a problem?

Here is what I posted a year ago to someone with the same problem...

I noticed when I installed mine that when the wheels are off of the ground the hem joint is even -[]- but when the tires are on the ground the hem joint is slanted -//-. It should be even when the tires are on the ground so there is an even amount of travel within the hem joint for flexing?
What I did is just look at the way they were leaning -\\- and then jack up the rear and turn the hem joint the oppisite way -//- then retighten them and lower the car back down and they now are straight -||-!!

[racepar1]

OK it's time for me to come in and clear up some shit here.

First off energy suspension has updated their design since 2004 (when this thread was started) and their tension rod bushings no longer crack control arms. They used to be soild one-piece bushings, which caused a lot of bind and cracked arms. Now they are a 3-piece design and work much better. Never buy solid urethane bushings for the tension rods no matter who makes them.

Second for the entire rest of the suspension urethane works ok. Not perfect, but ok. I have seen some rear arms break i think due to bushing bind though(a RUCA and a toe arm). I personally have urethane FLCA, RLCA, and rear upright bushings on my car still and I am happy with them. The key to urethane bushings is to keep them well lubed at all times. I installed zerk fittings on mine so that I can easily lube my bushings whenever I want. I HIGHLY reccomend that anyone installing urethane bushings does the zerk fittings. The urethane bushings seem to lose lube quickly (a couple months) and when they do they bind like hell. As long as my bushings are lubed I can compress my suspension all the way up with the shock dis-connected.

Third I would not reccomend the nismo bushings for any of the suspension arms. For subframes and mounts they are fine, but not for a suspension arm. The design of the nismo bushings inherently has more bind. The inner sleeve, bushing, and outer sleeve are all glued together. This means that for the suspension to move the bushing rubber has to twist. On top of that the nismo ones are a higher durometer rubber so they are even harder to witst then the stock ones. At least with a urethane bushing you have one free axis of movement. Anyone who does have the nismo or stock bushings in their arms please be sure to tighten all the suspension arms with the car on the ground. This will ensure that the bushing is in it's normal position at ride heighth and help eliminate some bind. With urethane bushings that is not necessary though.

[singlecamslam]

racepar what do you think about after tension rods like spl? they use spherical bearings.

[Hywarp161]

So do the 2 piece bushings from ES still have this problem?

[ixfxi]

Third I would not reccomend the nismo bushings for any of the suspension arms. For subframes and mounts they are fine, but not for a suspension arm. The design of the nismo bushings inherently has more bind. The inner sleeve, bushing, and outer sleeve are all glued together. This means that for the suspension to move the bushing rubber has to twist. On top of that the nismo ones are a higher durometer rubber so they are even harder to witst then the stock ones. At least with a urethane bushing you have one free axis of movement. Anyone who does have the nismo or stock bushings in their arms please be sure to tighten all the suspension arms with the car on the ground. This will ensure that the bushing is in it's normal position at ride heighth and help eliminate some bind. With urethane bushings that is not necessary though.

aron, isnt that the point of a bushing? its supposed to flex. its designed to flex. thats how the factory bushings work, the nismo bushings are no different.. just stiffer.

any pics of how you installed grease fittings in your arms? ide like to see how the grease goes from the outside to the inside shaft that sits on the bushing.

[ixfxi]

Since I'm in the process of ordering Nismo bushings myself for the spare subframe I have, I managed to get these numbers from a worker @ Nissan.

NISMO SUBFRAME BUSHINGS
PT # 55400-RS590

NISMO REAR AXLE&LOWER CONTROL ARM LINK
PT# 55157-RS580

NISMO REAR SPINDLE BUSHING
PT# 55157-RS521

okay big ballers... here are the part numbers ive managed to find:

55157-RS580 - RUCA, Traction & Toe Arms - 6 per car (3 per side)
55045-RS580 - RLCA - 4 per car (2 per side)
55157-RS521 - Spindle Bushings (for RUCA & Traction) - 4 per car (2 per side)
55152-RS520 - Spindle Bushings (Toe) - 2 per car (1 per side)

Subframe:
55440-RS520 - Front Subframe (2 needed)
55442-RS520 - Rear Subframe (2 needed)

Front LCA:
54535-RS520 - 2 per car

what a pain in the ass, so many fucking different part numbers.... and allergies dont help.

[CrimsonRockett]

Awesome.

My plan is, since I have this spare subframe, throw on ES bushings on one, Nismo bushings on the other.

Reading only does so much for me. Actually driving a car myself with different bushings allows me to decide for myself what I really want.

Greasing isn't really a problem to me since I don't drive the car often and after a certain point, I'll need something to work on anyway.

Hah.

[Howard92884]

aron, isnt that the point of a bushing? its supposed to flex. its designed to flex. thats how the factory bushings work, the nismo bushings are no different.. just stiffer.

any pics of how you installed grease fittings in your arms? ide like to see how the grease goes from the outside to the inside shaft that sits on the bushing.

I would also like to see how you did these grease zerks.

[Bigsyke]

dont you just drill/tap?

Take it even further by making a passage around the whole bushing in the center, chamfer/deburr the edges, and installing the zerk. This way your bushing gets a full 360 of grease, and its also like a reserve.

[racepar1]

aron, isnt that the point of a bushing? its supposed to flex. its designed to flex. thats how the factory bushings work, the nismo bushings are no different.. just stiffer.

The factory bushings are designed to flex, but it is restrictive to motion because of the design. A urethane bushing that is well greased will flex some and has one axis with very little restriction. I feel that is a better option as it reduces the bind in the suspension some. Bearings are always better, but are also very expensive.

I would say:

bearings > urethane > stock > nismo

The stock and the nismo are pretty close though because the nismo bushings lessen bushing flex in bad directions as well as good ones.

any pics of how you installed grease fittings in your arms? ide like to see how the grease goes from the outside to the inside shaft that sits on the bushing.

I have some pics at home.

dont you just drill/tap?

Take it even further by making a passage around the whole bushing in the center, chamfer/deburr the edges, and installing the zerk. This way your bushing gets a full 360 of grease, and its also like a reserve.

I did it the quick way and it works alright. I just drilled and tapped. If I had it to do over again though I would spend more time chamfering the holes and I would use a dremel to make a spiral groove inside the bushing to distribute the grease better.

[az_240]

Money is always 'an object'... I about choked when i had to drop the 300 on the one pair of bushings i got. but after talking to Kuah he said that one is very important because of the S14 having a greater angle on the rear shocks than the Z32. The other spherical's i just cant justify because of the cost. Got the whole rear bushing set for $60 which is less than half the cost of 1 pair if bushings from SPL. Dont get me wrong SPL is the shit and i know those would be the best route but i'm going to try this out and post up how it goes.

I currently have this z32 rear upright setup minus the spherical shock mount bushing on my s14.
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a229/livinglegendlll/ImportedPhotos00034.jpg

I might have to shave a little off the upright.... the rear shock is hitting it slightly.

I've been looking for a cheaper alternative for that shock mount bushing but cannot find anything other than SPL's which is rape. Sadly it looks like I will have to eventually bend over and just take it.



As for the tension rod bushings I have experience with nismo's, ES, and the SPL rods. Nismos are hands down the BEST for daily driving only because they don't rattle your teeth out and still stiffen everything up a good amount.

Just be sure to get them pressed in correctly.... with the arrow pointing toward the back of the car. ALSO be sure to tighten the tension rod with the car on the ground to avoid tearing them up.

ES requires too much greasing and the spherical rods are too much for my kidneys

[cdlong]

So do the 2 piece bushings from ES still have this problem?

oh jesus. these are just from this page.

First off energy suspension has updated their design since 2004 (when this thread was started) and their tension rod bushings no longer crack control arms.

The new T/C rod bushing are perfectly fine. They realized there was a problem, redesigned them, and they now allow the flex that's needed so your front LCA won't crack.

they are three piece by the way.

[water]

I currently have this z32 rear upright setup minus the spherical shock mount bushing on my s14.
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a229/livinglegendlll/ImportedPhotos00034.jpg

I might have to shave a little off the upright.... the rear shock is hitting it slightly.

I've been looking for a cheaper alternative for that shock mount bushing but cannot find anything other than SPL's which is rape. Sadly it looks like I will have to eventually bend over and just take it.

I am in the same boat. I was trying to hold off on these bushings but after 6 months of driving around with stock z32 knuckle bushings, they are ripped/torn and my rear suspension feels like shit. I may just go back to a stock knuckle and get stock lower mounts for the shocks b/c i hate dealing w/ bushings and those are such such ass rape at $300. The only thing holding me back is that i spent a lot of time pressing out the old knuckle bushings for ES bushings so i don't want it to all be for nothing. ehhhh

[Hywarp161]

[QUOTE=cdlong;2714289]oh jesus. these are just from this page.



Thanks, it was late and i may have missed a few posts. I have the 3 piece one's installed, i was just curious.:wavey:

[ixfxi]

Awesome.

My plan is, since I have this spare subframe, throw on ES bushings on one, Nismo bushings on the other.

Reading only does so much for me. Actually driving a car myself with different bushings allows me to decide for myself what I really want.

Greasing isn't really a problem to me since I don't drive the car often and after a certain point, I'll need something to work on anyway.

Hah.

I'm thinking the same thing, it would be interesting to have an S15 subframe with all solid components and then an s13 subframe with all nismo bushings. the problem is, i'de rather not have shit sitting around not getting used taking up precious space in my garage. but yeah, like you ide like to judge for myself.


The factory bushings are designed to flex, but it is restrictive to motion because of the design. A urethane bushing that is well greased will flex some and has one axis with very little restriction. I feel that is a better option as it reduces the bind in the suspension some. Bearings are always better, but are also very expensive.

I would say:

bearings > urethane > stock > nismo

The stock and the nismo are pretty close though because the nismo bushings lessen bushing flex in bad directions as well as good ones.


i disagree mostly with you're view because you're saying that the factory-style bushings (oe or nismo, doesnt matter) are restrictive - this is the point of the bushing, it not only acts as an insulator but also will spring back the suspension arms back into their normal position. I dont see this as a problem at all. they're part of the suspension and they work as intended.

by the way, being that there are so many different part numbers for the same sized bushing (as i listed above), it would make sense that the difference is in the durometer of the bushings.. that some bushings in the arms or spindles should flex less while others should flex more.


here is a question for the pros... is it possible to use s13 rear shocks on Z32 rear spindles if you press in that metal stud that secures the s13 shock? that would be very trick. unfortunately, the only z32 spindles ive seen on s13s also use z32 shocks.

[xawax]

i just installed the ES 3-pc tension rod bushings in my stock tension rods. i am very happy with the difference it made in the ride of my 89' hatch. a few days earlier i switched to new agx's w/teins and the tension rod bushing made more of a difference in the ride than the springs and struts.

after this thread popped up i inspected the angle/bind on the bushings with the car on the ground and it was centered and didn't look like it was under any stress.

my guess is that on excessivly lowered cars, the geometry is already in a "stressed" setting and then when you hit a mean dip on the freeway, it gets pushed too far and something has to give. i would say even the old design bushings would not be a problem unless you are sitting on the ground, tuckin' rim.

[projectRDM]

Mike, you cannot use the S13 stud in the Z32 upright without significant modification, IE welding a portion of aluminum into the upright then drilling/tapping for the stud at the correct angle. This would eliminate the need to use Z32 shocks in the rear but I've never met anyone willing to make the effort. The angle alone is your main concern as it would need to be precisely set up to match the S13 upright under both full load and unsprung load. Since the Z32 upright already sits at an angle it'd be hard to get it perfect. The spherical bearing in place of the bushing is the more ideal situation all around, you just have to use Z32 shocks. Some people don't like going that route since the Z is heavier and therefore the shocks are a different preload, in that case you just go with coilovers and matching Z32 fork mounts.

As far as urethane bushings in the uprights, these don't wear near as bad when used with arms that have spherical bearings, as the arms do allow for more twist than a stock arm. The better setup would be spherical bearings at both ends, but the cost and ride comfort level are heavily effected. You're going the better route by using the Nismo bushings since they're still compliant to an OE level but with reduced flex.

[gsracer]

For the z32 rear spindle Why dont you just machine an aluminum rod down to size and drill a hole in the middle of it, then press it into the z32 spindle. no bushing ,solid mount. If you grease it up well it shouldnt bind, the rear suspension only moves so much.

[aznpoopy]

my guess is that on excessivly lowered cars, the geometry is already in a "stressed" setting and then when you hit a mean dip on the freeway, it gets pushed too far and something has to give. i would say even the old design bushings would not be a problem unless you are sitting on the ground, tuckin' rim.

perhaps its an aggravating factor but i dont think that is quite correct.

the t/c rods are bolted directly to the LCA, but they do not move on the same axis as the LCA. the t/c rod bushing will be inevitably subject to a twisting motion as the LCA moves, even at a stock height. since poly bushings don't allow for much deformation, something will have to give.

[s13tilldeath*]

o shit..... ill be checking mine now....

[ixfxi]

As far as urethane bushings in the uprights, these don't wear near as bad when used with arms that have spherical bearings, as the arms do allow for more twist than a stock arm. The better setup would be spherical bearings at both ends, but the cost and ride comfort level are heavily effected. You're going the better route by using the Nismo bushings since they're still compliant to an OE level but with reduced flex.

thanks russ. remember back in the day how we used to slot the RUCA and rear toe arm? thats how my s13 arms are! haha i dont hear about people doing that much anymore, but its worked fine for many many years now.

i am thinking if i pickup Z32 RUCA/toe arms, to slot them and then re-weld material with the new hole position, that way they're pre-slotted and reinforced. that, or i will have to compromise and run solid RUCA/toe., not that bad i dont think.

[projectRDM]

thanks russ. remember back in the day how we used to slot the RUCA and rear toe arm? thats how my s13 arms are! haha i dont hear about people doing that much anymore, but its worked fine for many many years now.

i am thinking if i pickup Z32 RUCA/toe arms, to slot them and then re-weld material with the new hole position, that way they're pre-slotted and reinforced. that, or i will have to compromise and run solid RUCA/toe., not that bad i dont think.

I remember that shit. 1998 was all about it, when no one had even seen adjustable arms outside of the $500 Cuscos. If you're keeping OE fit just box in and weld up the existing arms and weld a concave washer to double up the hole end, that way you've got some surface area to crank on with deforming the arm or the bushing. Just make sure to keep using OE type shoulder bolts. I had some fool a few years ago bring me a Z32 to put coilovers on, for the life of me I could not compress the suspension enough. I finally realized they had replaced the bushings with Delrin and use threaded bolts, they were impacted so tight the arms could not move. It was tightened in the air so the suspension was preset to full droop. The traction arms were actually broken at the subframe end from the tension. We put new arms back on and I loosened the bolts down to OE torque, the car dropped like four inches. It didn't even need coilovers.

[ixfxi]

http://www.clearcorners.com/temp/poly1.jpg
http://www.clearcorners.com/temp/poly2.jpg
http://www.clearcorners.com/temp/poly3.jpg

here we have it, pics showing the wear that occurs on the inside of the bushing. you can see wear marks on the shafts and chunking of polyurethane as it heats up from constant motion on the shaft.

edit: thats the rear LCA bushing.

[az_240]

^How long have you run those and what are you replacing them with?

[racepar1]

i disagree mostly with you're view because you're saying that the factory-style bushings (oe or nismo, doesnt matter) are restrictive - this is the point of the bushing, it not only acts as an insulator but also will spring back the suspension arms back into their normal position. I dont see this as a problem at all. they're part of the suspension and they work as intended.

They are restrictive and you said it in your own post above.

"will spring back the suspension arms back into their normal position"

If the bushing has tension on it and "springs" the arms back into their normal positions then they are restricting motion during radial movement of the bushing. The nismo bushings have a more ideal control over the axial movement of the bushing then either the stock or urethane's IMO, but it causes significant bind during radial movement. I would rather have a more free radial axis and some bind in the axial movement.


by the way, being that there are so many different part numbers for the same sized bushing (as i listed above), it would make sense that the difference is in the durometer of the bushings.. that some bushings in the arms or spindles should flex less while others should flex more.

Toatally true. I bet they do have different durometeers.

http://www.clearcorners.com/temp/poly1.jpg
http://www.clearcorners.com/temp/poly2.jpg
http://www.clearcorners.com/temp/poly3.jpg

here we have it, pics showing the wear that occurs on the inside of the bushing. you can see wear marks on the shafts and chunking of polyurethane as it heats up from constant motion on the shaft.

edit: thats the rear LCA bushing.

Mike those bushings were totally dry. Of course they got worn pretty badly. That is like me complaining about my motor blowing up if I didn't put any oil in it. The downside of urethane bushings is that they require maintenance, the stock/nismo ones don't.

[ixfxi]

they were all lubed when they were put in..

the problem is, no one ever removes them and inspects them. name one person on the forum that takes apart all of his urethane bushings every 6-12 months for greasing.. give me a break.

[aznpoopy]

i only know of one person. racepar. lol. the vast majority of people don't even know this this needs to be done.

[rewplayff]

damnit, i have the es kit coming in the mail, i wanted to replace my bushings of 357k miles s13. i have a pillowballs on my tc rod already though. but the maintenance schedule is scaring the crap out of me right now. i feel like if i dont grease every poly bushing within a year my car will explode?

[aznpoopy]

haha. it won't explode dude. it'll just make weird creaky/popping noises, and feel harsher. at least in my experience.

[racepar1]

they were all lubed when they were put in..

the problem is, no one ever removes them and inspects them. name one person on the forum that takes apart all of his urethane bushings every 6-12 months for greasing.. give me a break.

That is why you should install grease fittings in the bushings. It takes 10 minutes to grease mine up now. I know it's a bitch to grease the bushings manually. Don't get me wrong I don't blame you for not knowing the bushings needed maintenance though, this topic has only come to discussion here in the 240 community very recently. I am the first person that I know of that has ever installed zerk fittings on their urethane bushings in a 240sx.

i only know of one person. racepar. lol. the vast majority of people don't even know this this needs to be done.

I never actually did that, I installed grease fittings instead. I decided that taking them apart once and installing the grease fittings would make life a lot easier in the end.

[racepar1]

damnit, i have the es kit coming in the mail, i wanted to replace my bushings of 357k miles s13. i have a pillowballs on my tc rod already though. but the maintenance schedule is scaring the crap out of me right now. i feel like if i dont grease every poly bushing within a year my car will explode?

Install the grease fittings. You can do it ghetto like I did and all you need is a drill, grease fittings, and maybe a tap. Do it once and you never have to worry again. All you need is a grease gun, a rag, and 10 minutes to grease them up.



EDIT: Here is a link to a write-up on the grease fitting install. This guy did a nice job.

http://nissanroadracing.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=554

[INeedNewTires]

great writeup, think its necessary if i'm installing the bushings only on the hub though?

[racepar1]

great writeup, think its necessary if i'm installing the bushings only on the hub though?

yes............

[projectRDM]

name one person on the forum that takes apart all of his urethane bushings every 6-12 months for greasing.. give me a break.

I know a guy. Lives in Atlanta. His name begins with an 'R'.

[ixfxi]

Don't get me wrong I don't blame you for not knowing the bushings needed maintenance though, this topic has only come to discussion here in the 240 community very recently. I am the first person that I know of that has ever installed zerk fittings on their urethane bushings in a 240sx.

i knew they needed grease. i only used mine for year or two, not long at all. no matter, im ditching the shit and will put them up for sale.. im sure someone can make use of them.. they're still in usable condition.

even with the fittings, ide like to see how they look disassembled, cleaned and inspected. the ones that showed significant more wear than the others were the LCA bushings. the rest were okay, but you can still see wear on the shafts.

[racepar1]

even with the fittings, ide like to see how they look disassembled, cleaned and inspected. the ones that showed significant more wear than the others were the LCA bushings. the rest were okay, but you can still see wear on the shafts.

They'll be coming off the car in favor of spherical bearings later this year, I'll let you know what they look like.

[aznpoopy]

EDIT: Here is a link to a write-up on the grease fitting install. This guy did a nice job.

Polyurethane bushing grease fitting install - Nissan Road Racing Forums (http://nissanroadracing.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=554)

thanks for the link man.

that spiral grooving is a neat idea. im not sure i would've thought of that.

[turbo_dreams]

Hate to be the one to bring this back from the dead, but i've got some questions. After reading all four pages i've got some questions on what's reccomended on my personal setup. I've read the Grease fittings write up (Awesome write up), to sum it up for those that wont take the time to read the thread,

1) Insert Bushing into arm, measure the middle distance of the polly bushing w/ a ruler, tape measure
2) Use that same distance on the outside of the arm and mark the spot
3) Drill that spot, preferably a 13/64 bit (or w/e grease fitting size you'd use)
4) Then, use a cutting wheel mounted to a dremel and cut grooves inside your poly bushings (this allows the grease to distribute inside)
5) Now tap the hole that you've drilled to w/e thread pitch your grease fitting is, bolt the fitting in (make sure your poly is in the arm at this point)
6) Press your metal sleeve into the poly bushing.
*When putting grease gun onto fitting, make sure top of the grease fitting is lubed, being the metal in the arm could snap that fitting out easily when grease gun's removed. "lubrimatic water-resistant marine bearing & bushing grease" reccomended.

........Now, as i was saying, i just ordered/recieved my "energy suspension bushing kit" from "Grmreaper", to my surprise there's no tension rod bushings in the kit. So i'll probably do grease fittings on w/e poly bushings i do install, however i'm considering aftermarket tc rods, should i do grease fittings on aftermarket ones or do any of them come w/ pre-pressed bushings that dont bind and eventually snap my lca's? I'm going with solid subframe inserts for the rear, and considering an aftermarket tc rod mated to a nismo power brace, still wondering what f&r sway bars to get, all this is being done very slowly, i may do one section of bushing at a time being this is my only transportation to work and back, any suggestions on what order to do these components in (including bushings) and why such order is recomended, should my expectation of that setup be a firm, tight ride? Asshats please refrain from commenting.

[Spring Break '92]

Hmmm, Im in the same boat in a way. I have had the ES tension rod bushings in my tension rods since 07. I think the SPL rods are getting ordered soon. My tension rod bushings are the one piece also. The SPLs should change my caster back to where it should be on the passenger side, I have had a hell of a right pull since I put them in. I just got my ES bushings for front and rear LCA's, the rear set came with all the rear arm bushings too. Should I just put the ES bushings in the LCA's and skip the rear arms? Mine are the black graphite impregnated ones, will they still need greasing/greasing as often? Or is the graphite impregnation just a gimmick?

[Bigsyke]

For the rears, aside from preventing movement on 2 axis, I do have to say most of the wear shown is probably from not having the bushing pressed in. Did anybody measure the lengths of the bushings, and compaired them to the end of the arms' shell length? the bushing is about 1mm shorter, thus allowing the metal inner shell to have full contact on the mounting point when torqued down. Pressing the bushings in, the overall length is less than cutting them in half, because the bushing is "sucked" into the arm, and wont move independantly from the actual arm.

I cut all of mine, and noticed suddenly they grew a few mm once installed. ( i even noticed this and shaved them down "true" and flat, leaving about 1mm open space inside the arm. Still the bushings were longer, and you can see this theory by jacking the suspension up and down with a jack. You can see some of the bushings are moving, which only the metal inner casing is supposed to move, because its torqued down to the subframe.

Plus it looks like on those casings, you didnt deburr and bevel the edges after cutting.

Hmmm, Im in the same boat in a way. I have had the ES tension rod bushings in my tension rods since 07. I think the SPL rods are getting ordered soon. My tension rod bushings are the one piece also. The SPLs should change my caster back to where it should be on the passenger side, I have had a hell of a right pull since I put them in. I just got my ES bushings for front and rear LCA's, the rear set came with all the rear arm bushings too. Should I just put the ES bushings in the LCA's and skip the rear arms? Mine are the black graphite impregnated ones, will they still need greasing/greasing as often? Or is the graphite impregnation just a gimmick?

The graphite only looks to be on the surface, once they wear down, that slippery substance is gone, and its comparible to the reds.

For the rear arms, ive heard you dont want them in the uprights, or RUCA i think

[essforteen]

was yours a one piece because mine was a three piece does that make a difference!!

[Bigsyke]

^^^im talking about the rear arms bushings, not the front T/C rod bushings.

[essforteen]

^^^im talking about the rear arms bushings, not the front T/C rod bushings.


K gotcha!!!

[Spring Break '92]

The graphite only looks to be on the surface, once they wear down, that slippery substance is gone, and its comparible to the reds.

For the rear arms, ive heard you dont want them in the uprights, or RUCA i think

Im only going to put the ES bushings in the front and rear LCA's. I've got a set of Megan TC rods. Im going to go with all adjustable spherical ball links in the rear along with spherical ball RUCA's. They probably won't be Megan's though. I've heard mixed opinions on Megan products, although I got the TC rods because I don't think they are quite as critical as the rear links and RUCA's. What are you guys experience with Megan arms and links?

[JRas]

get nismo

/thread

[racepar1]

The graphite only looks to be on the surface, once they wear down, that slippery substance is gone, and its comparible to the reds.

For the rear arms, ive heard you dont want them in the uprights, or RUCA i think

The black bushings are impregnated with a small amount of graphite because that is what makes them black. The graphite is throughout the entire bushing. I really don't think it makes much of a difference, but red bushings look kinda stupid anyways.

There is nothing wrong with bushings in the uprights, but you don't want them in the arms themselves, if yours are still stock. It puts too much stress on the arms and the ruca's and trac arms LOVE to break. I had it happen to me once a long time ago and it just happened to my buddy a couple weeks ago.

I cannot stress enough that the MAJOR issue here is lubrication. Keep them lubed and you'll be fine. Let them get dry and you will have problems.

Im only going to put the ES bushings in the front and rear LCA's. I've got a set of Megan TC rods. Im going to go with all adjustable spherical ball links in the rear along with spherical ball RUCA's. They probably won't be Megan's though. I've heard mixed opinions on Megan products, although I got the TC rods because I don't think they are quite as critical as the rear links and RUCA's. What are you guys experience with Megan arms and links?

I wish nismo made flca bushings, urethane bushings cause a lot of bind there. You should do the rear uprights too. As long as you have all 3 rear adjustable arms there isn't very much bind with the bushings in the uprights. If you are going to cheap out on suspension arms DO NOT GET MEGAN!!!!!! Go with Circuit Sports. I have handled some of their arms myself and they are pretty nice. Even the bearings look to be pretty good. In fact I plan to re-use the bearings and adjusters off a broken set of CS tension rods for my FLCA's.

get nismo

/thread

I will again state that I do not think very highly of nismo bushings/mounts. They have a lot of bind in radial motion whereas urethane does not. Their mounts are barely better then stock as well. There is only one place on the car that I would like to run a nismo bushing (if you can't make your own rod end fit there), and that is the flca. Urethane causes a LOT of bind in that particular place and the urethane bushings like to wear funny there.




The KEY here people is having the right combination. There are places where you need a urethane bushing, a nismo bushing, and a spherical bearing.

[INeedNewTires]

For me, SPL links in the rear, Z32 uprights with black ES bushings pressed in, and for the shock mount because its such a BIG bushing, and because i talked to [email protected] at length on the geometry, the S14 with Z32 uprights sits at a pretty steep angle, so press-in Heim's are the only way to go.

http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee309/ineednewtires/car%20parts/carpics228.jpg

http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee309/ineednewtires/car%20parts/carpics222.jpg

[az_240]

^^^^^Any pics of the rears installed on the car? I want to get those spherical upright bushings for my z32 uprights but I want to be sure the shock body won't bind against the upright due to the angle.

Thx