Teleport Massive
08-18-2012, 05:26 PM
Please feel free to add anything you feel is missing. Please correct me on any flawed or outright false statements I make throughout this article. I am no expert…
Over the past couple of years I’ve read and read many times from people on forums, ranging from the OG’s and the experienced, to the noobs and one post wonders:
you get what you pay for.
eBay is junk.
Buy name brand parts
Don’t put your life at risk just to save a few bucks
It’s a 50/50 with that ish
It begins to sound like a broken record. Almost cliché… and we wonder why nobody listens. Cause nobody explains WHY.
That’s why I decided to post this. To go into depth and clarify everything as best as I can. So here goes nothing.
So you’ve bought or are wondering if ‘brand X, eBay, knockoff, china stuff’ is any good. Well first of all, the price should tell you something. If the shiny part you want to buy is considerably less than other JDM and USA made parts, it would make sense that the QUALITY CONTROL, research and development, raw materials used, and skilled/experienced/educated personnel making the parts is definitely lacking. Many of the brand name guys that sell the parts that make some of us cringe when we see the retail price tag genuinely care about safety, fitment, longevity and performance. They use what they sell, and it WORKS. Period.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Now you may say or hear one of these:
But I have ‘brand x’ and it works fine
My buddy has been using ‘brand x part x’ for 3 years w/ no problems
OMG ‘BRAND X’ IS THE TYTE !!!11
I’ve read many positive reviews so it must be good
I can’t afford baller stuff, I’m broke
It’s understandable that you don’t make very much and others have had success. There are tons of cheap parts that you can buy that aren’t as mission critical as others. I will discuss this part later. But being impatient and not buying top shelf stuff can hurt you in the pocket BIG TIME later down the road or even immediately…. (this will be explained later)
The eBay and knockoff (even certain reputable companies in Japan) parts come from a number of factories in China, Taiwan, and Korea. I’m not totally clear on what other processes they use but from what I’ve heard is most of these trading companies will buy reputable parts and create molds from them.*
Here’s some proof, I believe these are camshafts from the trading company Skunk2 outsources to:
http://www.k20a.org/upload/camshaft_021.jpg
http://www.k20a.org/upload/camshaft_022.jpg
http://www.k20a.org/upload/camshaft_040.jpg
http://www.k20a.org/upload/camshaft_025.jpg
And the locations of the factories that pump out the countless number of knockoffs
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7004/6802081503_3f66678f92_o.jpg
*What can be said for a fact is these parts are made as quickly and as cheaply as possible so the product is only ‘passable’ in terms of overall performance. Then a fresh coat of powdercoating is applied, possibly hiding any or all surface defects or shoddy welds.
Please refer to this thread, 84 posts of good stuff about where some of these parts are coming from. Yeah it’s an Acura forum, but the info applies to us still.
G4 Racing coilovers - Club RSX Message Board (http://forums.clubrsx.com/showthread.php?t=559012)
How to start your own trading company and sell rebadged china stuff
LOL Skunk2(Junk2) fail!! - Page 6 - Club RSX Message Board (http://forums.clubrsx.com/showthread.php?t=809329&page=6)
Now, I’m not bashing these factories 100%. An *acceptable* product can be had from these blow-and-go places, but it depends only on how much the contracted company wants to pay for certain ‘levels’ per-se of build and fitment quality. Some companies pay a little extra to satisfy and grow their customer base, which is fine in some instances. But for parts that see high loads of force, stress, g-forces… you’re still flirting with trouble.
Also precision pieces like turbos that spin at 250,000 RPM. Think about it, do you want some clueless punch-the-clock guy with a bucket of molten steel to build something like that for you? Or a group of brilliant, respected engineers with high dollar robotics?
Take into consideration what entails the purchase.
Are you willing to deal with possible FITMENT issues?
Are you prepared to don your car with UGLY parts or ones that will get ugly with use?
Are you willing to spend money on a piece that may not PERFORM as promised?
Is the possibility of a dramatically shorter LIFESPAN of said piece important to you?
Is the possibility of lesser STRENGTH due to inferior raw MATERIALS and hardware of concern to you?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
-Suspension arms
-Coilovers
-Turbochargers
-Engine internals
-Fuel components
These are some of the most critical components on your vehicle. I would strongly advise to buy name brand, tried, tested, tracked parts for all of the above. It could mean the difference between death of vehicle/engine/lives/finances and a happy car, owner and wallet.
Now I’m sure you’ve been waiting for this part or you might’ve skimmed over my gift of common sense to justify the price tag that hovers on the tab next to this page. If you must, there are plenty of things you can pay less for, but it’s up to you whether you want to deal of the annoyances that can some from buying any of these fakes… e.g. boost and exhaust leaks, underperformers, ugly and aesthetically unappealing, yadda yadda yadda. Buying these and having it fail or not meet expectations isn’t the end of the world but boy does it suck when they do. I know this from experience. Onwards
-chassis braces
-intercooler cores and plumbing
-exhaust manifolds, outlets, downpipes, testpipes
-intake manifolds, plumbing
-wheels (please, feel free to burn me at the stake for this)
-overflow tanks and catch cans
There are probably others but I’m getting sick writing this. Again, it’s up to only you if you want to learn the hard way and pay twice. Or you can be saavy-smart and support members of your community and buy that second-hand set of Weds Kranze Cerberus and look like a boss tycoon because you got a steal on the price. Plus the fact that you bought quality brings more self respect and praise from your peers for doing so.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
WHY YOU SHOULD NOT BUY CHEAP SUSPENSION ARMS.
I am no genius by any means, but a few observations of physics should answer this...
During drifting, hard cornering, acceleration and deceleration and braking there are tremendous forces acting upon your vehicle. You are enclosed in a ~2700ish lb car and all the hundreds of pounds of steel are being thrown around, twisted, compressed, bent, and stretched. Most notably the majority of those forces transfer through the suspension. I cant show you any math behind this because I am a caveman, but you can only imagine the amount of stress and force you place on your 240 when you dump the clutch or carve up a track at full steering lock.
Take my cool story and apply it now to a cheapo RUCA. Although these arms have gotten thicker over time, the design is still poor. I am not entirely sure what material is used in the tubing and brackets but my guess is its probably 304 stainless steel tubing. My guess is as good as yours. I have no knowledge of the welds. The big one here is the rod ends on these. These are wimpy little guys, and the fact that they are not self lubricating is a big no-no. Poopoo heim joints like these will wear quicker over time and could quite possibly seize up... Cheap heims, which is not *IF*, its *WHEN* they seize up will more than likely result in some part of the arm breaking completely.
China vs quality rod ends
http://zilvia.net/f/chat/253988-dont-buy-ebay-arms-7.html#post3367165
FLIMSY! China arm vs Powered By Max unit
http://zilvia.net/f/chat/253988-dont-buy-ebay-arms.html
If your cheap arm breaks you may live through it, or you may not because it surprised you mid drift or while on the freeway. Your call.
WHY YOU SHOULD NOT BUY CHEAP TURBOCHARGERS.
I’ll be real brief on this one. Turbochargers are precision units built by engineers with years of experience. There is TONS of math, physics, thermodynamics, aerodynamics, and other mumbo jumbo involved with these that I’m sure the Korean guy operating the casting machine knows nothing about. Most importantly, any reputable turbocharger company will have the compressor, turbine, and shaft balanced. This is to prevent the bearings in the turbo prematurely wearing out resulting in shaft play. These turbos are engineered so that if it somehow fails (usually spinning too fast) the internals stay inside the housing instead of being ingested inside your freshly built KA-T. Chinachargers are not built for this. See link below.
Holset Turbocharger Videos (http://www.myholsetturbo.com/video.html)
If anyone can elaborate more on why Part X should not be cheaped out on like I did above, please do so! I’m done typing for right now.
Thank you for reading! Long live the innovative and passionate companies that continue to make the good stuff!
Over the past couple of years I’ve read and read many times from people on forums, ranging from the OG’s and the experienced, to the noobs and one post wonders:
you get what you pay for.
eBay is junk.
Buy name brand parts
Don’t put your life at risk just to save a few bucks
It’s a 50/50 with that ish
It begins to sound like a broken record. Almost cliché… and we wonder why nobody listens. Cause nobody explains WHY.
That’s why I decided to post this. To go into depth and clarify everything as best as I can. So here goes nothing.
So you’ve bought or are wondering if ‘brand X, eBay, knockoff, china stuff’ is any good. Well first of all, the price should tell you something. If the shiny part you want to buy is considerably less than other JDM and USA made parts, it would make sense that the QUALITY CONTROL, research and development, raw materials used, and skilled/experienced/educated personnel making the parts is definitely lacking. Many of the brand name guys that sell the parts that make some of us cringe when we see the retail price tag genuinely care about safety, fitment, longevity and performance. They use what they sell, and it WORKS. Period.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Now you may say or hear one of these:
But I have ‘brand x’ and it works fine
My buddy has been using ‘brand x part x’ for 3 years w/ no problems
OMG ‘BRAND X’ IS THE TYTE !!!11
I’ve read many positive reviews so it must be good
I can’t afford baller stuff, I’m broke
It’s understandable that you don’t make very much and others have had success. There are tons of cheap parts that you can buy that aren’t as mission critical as others. I will discuss this part later. But being impatient and not buying top shelf stuff can hurt you in the pocket BIG TIME later down the road or even immediately…. (this will be explained later)
The eBay and knockoff (even certain reputable companies in Japan) parts come from a number of factories in China, Taiwan, and Korea. I’m not totally clear on what other processes they use but from what I’ve heard is most of these trading companies will buy reputable parts and create molds from them.*
Here’s some proof, I believe these are camshafts from the trading company Skunk2 outsources to:
http://www.k20a.org/upload/camshaft_021.jpg
http://www.k20a.org/upload/camshaft_022.jpg
http://www.k20a.org/upload/camshaft_040.jpg
http://www.k20a.org/upload/camshaft_025.jpg
And the locations of the factories that pump out the countless number of knockoffs
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7004/6802081503_3f66678f92_o.jpg
*What can be said for a fact is these parts are made as quickly and as cheaply as possible so the product is only ‘passable’ in terms of overall performance. Then a fresh coat of powdercoating is applied, possibly hiding any or all surface defects or shoddy welds.
Please refer to this thread, 84 posts of good stuff about where some of these parts are coming from. Yeah it’s an Acura forum, but the info applies to us still.
G4 Racing coilovers - Club RSX Message Board (http://forums.clubrsx.com/showthread.php?t=559012)
How to start your own trading company and sell rebadged china stuff
LOL Skunk2(Junk2) fail!! - Page 6 - Club RSX Message Board (http://forums.clubrsx.com/showthread.php?t=809329&page=6)
Now, I’m not bashing these factories 100%. An *acceptable* product can be had from these blow-and-go places, but it depends only on how much the contracted company wants to pay for certain ‘levels’ per-se of build and fitment quality. Some companies pay a little extra to satisfy and grow their customer base, which is fine in some instances. But for parts that see high loads of force, stress, g-forces… you’re still flirting with trouble.
Also precision pieces like turbos that spin at 250,000 RPM. Think about it, do you want some clueless punch-the-clock guy with a bucket of molten steel to build something like that for you? Or a group of brilliant, respected engineers with high dollar robotics?
Take into consideration what entails the purchase.
Are you willing to deal with possible FITMENT issues?
Are you prepared to don your car with UGLY parts or ones that will get ugly with use?
Are you willing to spend money on a piece that may not PERFORM as promised?
Is the possibility of a dramatically shorter LIFESPAN of said piece important to you?
Is the possibility of lesser STRENGTH due to inferior raw MATERIALS and hardware of concern to you?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
-Suspension arms
-Coilovers
-Turbochargers
-Engine internals
-Fuel components
These are some of the most critical components on your vehicle. I would strongly advise to buy name brand, tried, tested, tracked parts for all of the above. It could mean the difference between death of vehicle/engine/lives/finances and a happy car, owner and wallet.
Now I’m sure you’ve been waiting for this part or you might’ve skimmed over my gift of common sense to justify the price tag that hovers on the tab next to this page. If you must, there are plenty of things you can pay less for, but it’s up to you whether you want to deal of the annoyances that can some from buying any of these fakes… e.g. boost and exhaust leaks, underperformers, ugly and aesthetically unappealing, yadda yadda yadda. Buying these and having it fail or not meet expectations isn’t the end of the world but boy does it suck when they do. I know this from experience. Onwards
-chassis braces
-intercooler cores and plumbing
-exhaust manifolds, outlets, downpipes, testpipes
-intake manifolds, plumbing
-wheels (please, feel free to burn me at the stake for this)
-overflow tanks and catch cans
There are probably others but I’m getting sick writing this. Again, it’s up to only you if you want to learn the hard way and pay twice. Or you can be saavy-smart and support members of your community and buy that second-hand set of Weds Kranze Cerberus and look like a boss tycoon because you got a steal on the price. Plus the fact that you bought quality brings more self respect and praise from your peers for doing so.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
WHY YOU SHOULD NOT BUY CHEAP SUSPENSION ARMS.
I am no genius by any means, but a few observations of physics should answer this...
During drifting, hard cornering, acceleration and deceleration and braking there are tremendous forces acting upon your vehicle. You are enclosed in a ~2700ish lb car and all the hundreds of pounds of steel are being thrown around, twisted, compressed, bent, and stretched. Most notably the majority of those forces transfer through the suspension. I cant show you any math behind this because I am a caveman, but you can only imagine the amount of stress and force you place on your 240 when you dump the clutch or carve up a track at full steering lock.
Take my cool story and apply it now to a cheapo RUCA. Although these arms have gotten thicker over time, the design is still poor. I am not entirely sure what material is used in the tubing and brackets but my guess is its probably 304 stainless steel tubing. My guess is as good as yours. I have no knowledge of the welds. The big one here is the rod ends on these. These are wimpy little guys, and the fact that they are not self lubricating is a big no-no. Poopoo heim joints like these will wear quicker over time and could quite possibly seize up... Cheap heims, which is not *IF*, its *WHEN* they seize up will more than likely result in some part of the arm breaking completely.
China vs quality rod ends
http://zilvia.net/f/chat/253988-dont-buy-ebay-arms-7.html#post3367165
FLIMSY! China arm vs Powered By Max unit
http://zilvia.net/f/chat/253988-dont-buy-ebay-arms.html
If your cheap arm breaks you may live through it, or you may not because it surprised you mid drift or while on the freeway. Your call.
WHY YOU SHOULD NOT BUY CHEAP TURBOCHARGERS.
I’ll be real brief on this one. Turbochargers are precision units built by engineers with years of experience. There is TONS of math, physics, thermodynamics, aerodynamics, and other mumbo jumbo involved with these that I’m sure the Korean guy operating the casting machine knows nothing about. Most importantly, any reputable turbocharger company will have the compressor, turbine, and shaft balanced. This is to prevent the bearings in the turbo prematurely wearing out resulting in shaft play. These turbos are engineered so that if it somehow fails (usually spinning too fast) the internals stay inside the housing instead of being ingested inside your freshly built KA-T. Chinachargers are not built for this. See link below.
Holset Turbocharger Videos (http://www.myholsetturbo.com/video.html)
If anyone can elaborate more on why Part X should not be cheaped out on like I did above, please do so! I’m done typing for right now.
Thank you for reading! Long live the innovative and passionate companies that continue to make the good stuff!