Egr tubing help

[1slowlance]

Hey, everyone. Name's Lance. Just got into the 240 scene with an 89 hatch. Got it with a broken stud in the block on the exhaust manifold. In trying to take the header off to get to the bottom right stud to drill it and hopefully easy out it out. The bung from the Egr valve to the header is rusted as a mug. Sprayed with pb blaster a bunch, tried vise grips, crescent wrench. Next try is going to be a pipe wrench. My question is do y'all have any better ideas/experiences? I'll take anything I can get right about now. Was also considering removing it all together. Read a few threads about it affecting how it runs, and othe people saying it doesn't change anything. Input?

[Butcher240sx]

cut the pipe near the EGR valve with a hacksaw to get it apart. then use some rubber hose and clamps to hook it back together. You need an EGR. Leave it on.

[1slowlance]

I didn't even think about hose clamps. I'll try to get it off with a pipe wrench today, and if that does t work, I may go your route. How much pressure is going through there? Rubber hose will hold that pressure?

[tapdeznutz]

cut the pipe near the EGR valve with a hacksaw to get it apart. then use some rubber hose and clamps to hook it back together. You need an EGR. Leave it on.

was thinking about doing this too but do you know what type/kind of hose to get that is heat resistant etc?

[1slowlance]

Well, the pipe wrench didn't work either. Just kept slipping off the nut. Not really sure what my next option is, other than finding a heat resistant tube?

[ka4life87]

If where u live there is no emissions required, just remove ur egr, fab a block plate on the intake manifold

[Butcher240sx]

Silicone hose is best. It doesn't really get that hot if you cut it near the intake. Any heater hose works. Leave the egr intact and functioning. Unless you have a blockage in the exhaust there isn't much pressure. Also when you slip the rubber over the the two ends of the egr tube almost touch.

[tapdeznutz]

Silicone hose is best. It doesn't really get that hot if you cut it near the intake. Any heater hose works. Leave the egr intact and functioning. Unless you have a blockage in the exhaust there isn't much pressure. Also when you slip the rubber over the the two ends of the egr tube almost touch.

thanks. that is what i needed. yeah installed a header and the egr bung doesnt line up with the egr tube so i will be removing it and cutting it near the egr and re-attach with hose and coupling. thanks again.

[Dorifto Machine]

Yeah man, that EGR tube is nothing but a PITA , had the same exact issues. I brought the sawzall saw out and had to chop it. Then I blocked the egr with a Egr block kit. Car ran great, it actually idled way better.

[1slowlance]

What kind of silicone hose are y'all talking about? Links?

[tapdeznutz]

Yeah man, that EGR tube is nothing but a PITA , had the same exact issues. I brought the sawzall saw out and had to chop it. Then I blocked the egr with a Egr block kit. Car ran great, it actually idled way better.

interesting. what about the vaccum lines. that go to the EGR, where do they route/re-route to?

[Dorifto Machine]

Its hard to explain without you staring right at it but you will see the the lines that once went to the EGR will be able to be recirculated and or plugged. Its not hard at all. You cant mess it up unless you just leave a vacuum leak open.

[tapdeznutz]

Its hard to explain without you staring right at it but you will see the the lines that once went to the EGR will be able to be recirculated and or plugged. Its not hard at all. You cant mess it up unless you just leave a vacuum leak open.

cool thanks. Freaken California SMOG laws make me crazy:bash:

[Butcher240sx]

Don't remove the egr unless you retune your ecu. Leave it on functioning. If his idle got better its because something was wrong with the egr. Factory put it there and tuned for it. All you get is 2hp worse fuel economy and less longevity of your engine. Also won't pass visual or emissions inspection.
I take pride in passing a sniffer test. These aren't old muscle cars, they should run clean.

[booey13]

^Lol. If your state doesn't have emissions testing then delete that shit. It's garbage. You don't need to retune for it either.

[tapdeznutz]

well once i pass smog i want to take it out and save for next smog session same goes for the test pipe :)

[booey13]

Invest in an egr block off plate and an egr plug then. The block off plate can be found cheap on ebay and you can buy an egr plug from Nissan. Yes the dealership. The parts guy I dealt with was a douche and wanted to go on about how it's illegal blah blah blah. Tell them it's for a race car.

[laurentj23]

Any idea where i can get that hose?

[tapdeznutz]

Invest in an egr block off plate and an egr plug then. The block off plate can be found cheap on ebay and you can buy an egr plug from Nissan. Yes the dealership. The parts guy I dealt with was a douche and wanted to go on about how it's illegal blah blah blah. Tell them it's for a race car.

agreed. i already got a egr block in the header. and i had to ask for it by part number as the dealership is reluctant to help you with these type of parts. am exactly want to block off egr once smog is taken care of.

as for the hose i was going to go with McMaster- Carr.com for the hose i just need to measure what the inner diameter (ID) of the egr tube is so i can order the hose and clamps i need.

[Butcher240sx]

Before calling the egr garbage I would do a little research on what it does. Not from other rice forums, but actual engineering. There is no benefit to removing it on a daily driver. But there are drawbacks. I prefer not to listen to advice from people younger than the car they are talking about. Just a thought.

[tapdeznutz]

Before calling the egr garbage I would do a little research on what it does. Not from other rice forums, but actual engineering. There is no benefit to removing it on a daily driver. But there are drawbacks. I prefer not to listen to advice from people younger than the car they are talking about. Just a thought.

nice. well how about can you give me your thoughts on it then. you are qualified at least, age while of course. no pun intended i am always open to learn what i do not know.

[1slowlance]

I'm pretty sure the od of the tube is 1/2". Which of those hoses from that site were you going with? I read the neoprene tubing only stands up to 200F. That doesn't seem like enough.

[booey13]

Before calling the egr garbage I would do a little research on what it does. Not from other rice forums, but actual engineering. There is no benefit to removing it on a daily driver. But there are drawbacks. I prefer not to listen to advice from people younger than the car they are talking about. Just a thought.

That's your "preference." I own and work on cars older than you as well. Age is irrelevant when you know what you're talking about. EGR's leak and fail over time. Care to tell OP how much they are to replace? I won't go as far as to call you an old man but you might be on the wrong forums. Should have bought a Prius if thats truly your concern. My KA has no emissions left, it's turbocharged and still gets over 20mpg. Just sayin.

[Butcher240sx]

Gasoline burning engines operate by mixing fuel with air, compressing it inside the cylinder, and igniting it with the spark plug. Ideally gasoline burns oxygen. But air contains 70 percent nitrogen and has traces of other gases. Nitrogen is fairly inert and doesn't like to combine with the gasoline. But as combustion chamber temperatures climb, nitrogen is far more likely to combine with oxygen and form nitrous oxides, also known as NOx. Nitrous oxides are a major component of urban air pollution. Gasoline, too, burns best when combined with air at a ratio of 14.7 air to 1 fuel. But leaner combinations improve fuel economy. The problem is that when gasoline is burned lean it tends to knock. Knock greatly reduces thermal efficiency and can damage the engine if allowed to continue. While there are practical limits to how lean an engine can be forced to run, it can be improved somewhat with lower combustion chamber temperatures. By lowering combustion chamber temperatures, pollution is reduced and fuel economy improved. Performance will be sacrificed somewhat, but that is a necessary price for air quality.

Combustion Chamber Temperature

There are two ways to decrease combustion chamber temperatures. The first is to reduce compression ratio. Compression ratio is the amount of compression provided by the cylinder. But significantly reducing this factor to less than 8:1 or so drastically reduces both performance and efficiency. Another way to reduce combustion chamber temperature is to add something inert to the air-fuel charge. Something that won't burn. Fortunately every car and truck has a ready made supply of inert gas--the exhaust. Surprisingly, adding exhaust to the inlet air charge actually decreases maximum combustion chamber temperature. This seems counter-intuitive since the exhaust is hot. However, when it exits the cylinder it is cooler than the maximum combustion chamber temperature. So by pumping it back into the combustion chamber it will not burn again and absorbs heat.

The EGR Valve

EGR stands for Exhaust Gas Recirculation. The valve directs a small portion of exhaust gasses back into the inlet air charge and lowers the maximum temperature of the burning fuel. The valve makes sure that the EGR system is off at idle, where it would lead to erratic and loping idle, and at peak power, since adding exhaust gasses robs power from the engine.

Other Benefits

Besides reducing pollution and lowering combustion chamber temperature, recirculating exhaust also has the effect of lowering pumping losses. Pumping losses are the work the engine must do to pump the inlet air past the throttle plate. Since EGR lowers power the throttle must be opened wider for a give desired power, meaning the throttle opening is wider so the engine doesn't have to work as hard to inhale the air. Moreover, with a lower combustion chamber temperature there is less heat loss to the metal walls of the cylinder, the piston, and the cylinder head so that more internal heat is retained to be converted into mechanical work.

History of EGR

The first EGR systems in the early 1970s operated strictly on manifold vacuum. They had a huge impact on performance, driveability and reliability. Many owners simply removed them and modified the carburetors to prevent running lean. Slightly later systems added electronic controls that improved both performance and reliability but problems continued and the systems, while mandated by Federal Law, were unpopular with drivers. Some foreign manufacturers opted to make their engines very small and, since they produced so little exhaust gas, were able to eliminate the EGR system completely. This move helped them gain a foothold in the American market. The system continued to evolve however, and combined with modern computer-controlled engine management systems, have no impact on driveability at all, and in fact provide a significant benefit both to controlling pollution and to improving fuel economy.

[Butcher240sx]

The egr isn't usually the cheapest part to replace, but aside from the diaphragm tearing and failing it can usually be cleaned. My preference is to leave mine on and functioning.

[booey13]

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj39/booey13/family-tech-support-guy-meme-generator-ctrl-c-to-copy-ctrl-v-to-paste-king-of-kings-f31932.jpg

[booey13]

If you feel like dicking with it for the rest of your 240sx ownership that's your decision. I'm giving OP the general consensus.

[Butcher240sx]

"General consensus" is purely subjective to who you are around. Talk to engineers and the mechanics at the shops I have worked for and you might get a different answer. It really doesn't take much "dicking with". Just basic knowledge of emissions systems and basic mechanical ability. How about a new argument. Carb vs EFI. Or engines need backpressure to make low end torque. And yes copy and paste is great for saving time.

[booey13]

I'm referring to these cars. I've worked for a shop as well. Willis Auto Campus to be exact. Google it. It's also not just who you're around. This is information that's been out there for years. Why don't you search this here forum and tell me how many threads you can find on keeping the egr vs deleting it.

[tapdeznutz]

i do value everyone taking the time and giving there input/experience. its not worth an argument over. so lets agree to dis-agree :)

anyways i just measured the ID of my ka24E egr tube and i believe i measured approx. 3/4". if you look on mcmaster-car search silicone tubes or silicone hoses and narrow search for max temp rating. i will try my lucky this weekend at the smog man and see what happens. i did do the "push on egr" and engine did start to stumble but my damn CEL in still on. i hate old cars...

[1slowlance]

McMaster-Carr (http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-silicone-rubber-hollow-tubing/=iqqtnx)

Is this the one you're talking about? I see the max temperature is 500F.

[tapdeznutz]

that may work i am going to get something like that.

[1slowlance]

Cool. I wasnt sure if it would withstand the heat. Thanks to everyone for all the responses and help with this. I'll let y'all know how it all works out for me. I'll probably be cutting the tubing today and pulling the header out, and order that tubin tonight. Good luck with yours, tap.

[Dorifto Machine]

Don't remove the egr unless you retune your ecu. Leave it on functioning. If his idle got better its because something was wrong with the egr. Factory put it there and tuned for it. All you get is 2hp worse fuel economy and less longevity of your engine. Also won't pass visual or emissions inspection.
I take pride in passing a sniffer test. These aren't old muscle cars, they should run clean.


Technically speaking, anything you do to your engine as far as upgrading ,modifying, or removing should in turn require you to get a tune. However , this is not realistic to most .

If you have to undergo SMOG testing , sure keep up with your evap/smog system.
If you don't (such as myself, in FL) then choose if you want it or not. Theirs plenty of factors that should be taken accounted for.
Either way if you remove it ,making sure its recirculated properly is very important and also understanding the age and design of emissions from back then to current. Alot has changed and theirs alternative to keeping things stock because though it was designed that way, their is a full spectrum of other ways to achieve similar if not better attributes.

In the end its your own project, you choose the direction you want to take it while respectfully making the right decision. But please Butcher240sx if your going to try to educate the user at-least direct it in a way that its suggestive advice and not demanding advice . Give him the information and let him choose his path.

To the users, Good luck with whatever decision you make :)

[Butcher240sx]

Well said. Didnt mean to come across with anything but advice. Take it or leave it. I just see to many zipted cars, jerry rigged and running like shit. That hose should be fine. The pair vale if deleted has a length of heat resistant hose on it.

[1slowlance]

Well, hose is ordered, and hopefully fixing it sometime this week. I have to drill out a broken stud in the block, and had to drop the header down in order to get to it. So, I'll let y'all know how everything works out. Thank you for all of your input and advice.

[tapdeznutz]

you know i just decided keep the EGR plug on my headers and T off the other hose that comes from the lower position on the header for the other emissions system. whatever that system is call that bolts onto the driver's side strut. i will have pictures up if over the weekend if needed. oh and the EGR tube is 5/8" ID, fyi.

[laurentj23]

Any updates!

[tapdeznutz]

Any updates!

Yes, hooked up the EGR piping etc and my car ran light crap. Now i need to troubleshoot my EGR system.

[1slowlance]

Only update I have is that I went to start it up to move it around for that hurricane that just came through, and it wouldn't start. I didn't have the tubing all hooked up, so I'm guessing that is why. Next step is to get some high heat hose or something and hook it all up like before, and see what happens.