KA-t VS. RB25 (or something that will beat a srt8 300c)

[toast240sx]

I need to know which of the 2 engines would be better to get and build to race a Chrysler 300 SRT-8... Obviously the RB would be better but would it be better to just build the KA i have now or just buy a RBx and build that??

[DJ-of-E]

My vote would be to buy a Mustang GT. Then again, I'm not a fan of using a 240sx as a drag car.

[toast240sx]

well not just drag race but like running them on the interstat

[Ratpack_Chad]

This should be interesting.

[Highway Riding]

So you got owned by a SRT-8 and wanna build something to romp on it? OP it's ok it was a V8 it happens...

[toast240sx]

no my buddy just got it and thinks its the best thing in the world and i want him to get stomped by a tuner. ive got a bone stock KA right ow that i can start building but i wanted to knowif it wuld just me money to go ahead and buy a RB

[starfire240]

You can build anything to beat a v8. Where there is money and will power, there is a way.

[Sileighty_85]

hmm let see, an engine that can handle up to 500 stock or an engine that will blow up around 300...

But really depends on how poor you are.

[DJDANGER24]

^^What he said, a stock block RB with GT35, good EMS and supporting mods can walk on a lot of high powered cars.

You think this car can take an SRT8 ?


k8Y42xav_I4

[shiftdrift]

i mean, a stock KA with a t28 at 10 lbs could probably walk an srt8 300....

said car, stock ka, t28 with cobra maf and JWT ecu.

S6hz8jFs9A0

[alixander2012]

Bet that supra's like "Hey man you cheated, or hey man I didn't hook the 60 ft." lol

[Mr.Clerc]

no my buddy just got it and thinks its the best thing in the world and i want him to get stomped by a tuner. ive got a bone stock KA right ow that i can start building but i wanted to knowif it wuld just me money to go ahead and buy a RB

Im soooo happy this was posted haha my boy loves his srt-8 jeep and thinks its a rocket ship (it kinda is) but my ka will be boosted in about 2 weeks, just bought a full kit for it so i'll let you know how she does against him haha but if you have the dough rb all the way but they ain't cheap

[booey13]

hmm let see, an engine that can handle up to 500 stock or an engine that will blow up around 300...

But really depends on how poor you are.

Stock ka's can hold 500. How long though is a different story but it's been done numerous times. The stock block record is like 570 something.

[zerodameaon]

What does it matter your racing on the streets, hopefully one of you will get pulled over and arrested before anyone gets hurt. Toast go read the forum rules and get back to us.

[shiftdrift]

oh no street racing, the thing that everyone does....but everyone acts like they don't do.

[godsmack]

^ beat me to it. just go buy yourself a damn honda and be done with it

[booey13]

Exactly why I'm building a 240. To "stomp" jeeps and 300s. Smh

[zerodameaon]

Its more of the "Hey look at me I want to build my car to street race my buddy."

[spooled240]

these american cars have what, almost 1000lb on our s-chassis's? lol Just match their 425hp and you'll smoke them

some dude in a jeep srt8 was revving at me today and I though of how I could beat an AWD V8 car like that.... I'm thinking a big turbo and playing catch up

[Sileighty_85]

Stock ka's can hold 500. How long though is a different story but it's been done numerous times. The stock block record is like 570 something.

if it blows up that means it cant hold it....

[booey13]

It's all in the tune. Not much you can do when you start bending rods. Stock ka's can hold 300 easy unlike you said.

[godsmack]

he's just saying that it's more effective to go rb25 than to build a ka and worry about it breaking. they will hold 300hp but once you start going above 400hp you need to start doing too much work to them in order to hold together for awhile.

[Sileighty_85]

It's all in the tune. Not much you can do when you start bending rods. Stock ka's can hold 300 easy unlike you said.

Yes it is all in the tune. To an extent. You cant put a 500hp tune on an engine that can physically only handle 300.

Yes you can do something about, its call not being a cheap ass and doing it right by replacing the rods and pistons, Rather than slapping a $400 turbo kit on a 150,000+ mile engine.

[stinky_180]

rofl... just put the engine from the Chrysler 300 SRT-8 into the 240sx

[booey13]

I guess it all depends on your definition of effective. Obviously overall engine condition will play a major part and iirc op was worried about cost.

[booey13]

Yes it is all in the tune. To an extent. You cant put a 500hp tune on an engine that can physically only handle 300.

Yes you can do something about, its call not being a cheap ass and doing it right by replacing the rods and pistons, Rather than slapping a $400 turbo kit on a 150,000+ mile engine.

Not to get your panties in a bunch but you'd obviously want to do the same when doubling the horsepower on a stock rb25. If you want to do things "right" that is. And as I already said op mentioned cost being a factor.

[Sileighty_85]

Not to get your panties in a bunch but you'd obviously want to do the same when doubling the horsepower on a stock rb25. If you want to do things "right" that is. And as I already said op mentioned cost being a factor.


lol the guy is talking about wanting to beat a Chrysler 300 SRT-8. Which is rated at 425 crank, so with the power of math we can see that there is no need to double the power capabilities of the RB seeing that it can handle over 500 stock and that a S-Chassis with have a better power to weight ratio.

So your argument is moot.

Thanks for playing.

[booey13]

Moot? My point exactly. 300-350hp in a 240 (easily attainable with the stock ka) should be able to beat an srt8 300. For the third time I'm going to mention op was concerned with cost. In no way am I talking down on the rb25 or insulting your intelligence. Consider everything that comes along with an rb25 swap. Becomes pretty pricey when you can turbo a ka. And for the record guys have turbocharged ka's with 200k+ and had far from disappointing results.

[Sileighty_85]

maybe its just me but I would never boost a High mileage N/A engine. Unless it was for shits and gigs to destroy on the track.

The price of properly building a KA-T would probably be around the same price as properly swapping in a RB engine, so it really boils down to preference.

[booey13]

^this I can agree with you on. Haha

[Mr.Clerc]

lol the guy is talking about wanting to beat a Chrysler 300 SRT-8. Which is rated at 425 crank, so with the power of math we can see that there is no need to double the power capabilities of the RB seeing that it can handle over 500 stock and that a S-Chassis with have a better power to weight ratio.

So your argument is moot.

Thanks for playing.

Jeeps are even slower than that hahaha my buddies only has 411 and he has a full intake with the borla exhaust ( jeeps are slooooowwwww) even a ka with 350 should beat him trust me. my cousins z28 camaro has 310 to the wheels and beat this jeep twice on the taconic. if you want to beat a jeep and save money go ka aha

[fliprayzin240sx]

Not to get your panties in a bunch but you'd obviously want to do the same when doubling the horsepower on a stock rb25. If you want to do things "right" that is. And as I already said op mentioned cost being a factor.

Well, heres the kicker about RB25s, I know enough folks in Okinawa who were pushing over 500-600hp on a fully stock RB25 bottom end. To get a KA to push over 300 reliably, good idea to change those pistons first correct?

[bunny13]

Well, heres the kicker about RB25s, I know enough folks in Okinawa who were pushing over 500-600hp on a fully stock RB25 bottom end. To get a KA to push over 300 reliably, good idea to change those pistons first correct?

Talk to this guy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkW_BjrtWmA

[booey13]

Of course its a good idea. But it's already been noted with a good tune it's the rods that are the weak point.

[toast240sx]

I'm getting some good advice! thank you to everyone so far. I didn't see the part in the rules about not talking about street racing so I'm sorry about that won't happen again.

I have an s14 SE with 215,xxx miles on it and i was given another KA by my friend to build if i wanted, i haven't had time to do anything to it because of work so i am just trying to get some info on what i should do. i love the idea of getting a RB25 in my car but it is a lil expensive but in a few months that's not really going to bother me much. where i'm from you don't really see a properly built KA-t. my plan was to do all new internals and then turbo.

[jesse_s13]

First stop trying to 1 up your buddy shit gets annoying. If you just want to beat him once on a track then slap a turbo on your car. Once it blows build it (assuming you have the funds).

[Sileighty_85]

Talk to this guy.

30PSI on a KA with Stock Internals. - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkW_BjrtWmA)

So a guy makes a few pulls at 30 psi for one day and Every KA can do that?

Is this exact engine still running to this day?

I dont mean "Yeah he DD's it at 8psi everyday". I'm talking drift/track/drag at 30psi every weekend.


Of course its a good idea. But it's already been noted with a good tune it's the rods that are the weak point.


Im no KA guru but from what ive read its the pistons that are weak. Since the are not forged and having thin ring lands.

[bunny13]

So a guy makes a few pulls at 30 psi for one day and Every KA can do that?

Is this exact engine still running to this day?

I dont mean "Yeah he DD's it at 8psi everyday". I'm talking drift/track/drag at 30psi every weekend.





Im no KA guru but from what ive read its the pistons that are weak. Since the are not forged and having thin ring lands.

No that car had the shit beat out of it and held up fine. And the ring lands usually give out due to detonation, which can happen to even aftermarket pistons and in any motor at that. Not saying aftermarkets aren't stronger, but if the tune is right, AFR's are good, and knock is low I am willing to bet rod failure will occur way before piston failure.

Don't forget this KA was somewhere in the ballpark of having 180k miles on it.

[Matej]

Beat your friend at Halo or something and call it even.

[Sileighty_85]

"Held" meaning past tense, so its blown up by now? Detonation is not the only reason for failed ring lands. Materials exceeding their designed power goals will make them fail.

boosted EJ engines require aftermarket pistons at 400 due to non forged internals and thin ring lands

Ive yet to hear on here of a aftermarket piston ring lands cracking. My SR running Wiseco Pistons see a fair share of high 80's knock, been running like that and drifting it for 3 years with no issues at all. Just needs a retune.

Companies could save money and material if they could use thinner ring lands. But they cant cuz a thicker ring land is required to withstand the power.

[bunny13]

"Held" meaning past tense, so its blown up by now? Detonation is not the only reason for failed ring lands. Materials exceeding their designed power goals will make them fail.

boosted EJ engines require aftermarket pistons at 400 due to non forged internals and thin ring lands

Ive yet to hear on hear of a aftermarket piston ring lands cracking. My SR running Wiseco Pistons see a fair share of high 80's knock, been running like that and drifting it for 3 years with no issues at all. Just needs a retune.

Companies could save money and material if they could use thinner ring lands. But they cant cuz a thicker ring land is required to withstand the power.

Of course it's not the only reason. But notice I wasn't just talking about any ringlands. I was talking specifically about the KA's stock piston ringlands. And I'm not really looking to get into a pissing match. I'm just letting OP know that turboing his stock KA is not a bad idea at all if done correctly.

[bunny13]

As for how long that engine lasted, I'm not sure that it ever did blow up. I'd have to do some hunting around to recall what became of it. Feel free to do that if you'd like. As for what that same guy is up to now....more stock internal awesomeness:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGZUrK7KeXs&feature=channel&list=UL

[bunny13]

Just went back and looked to refresh my memory. The current stock block Ka-t record holder's engine put down 575whp (not J. Taylor) and lasted for some time, but eventually ended up having rod failure. The ringland's were not the culprit when that KA blew.

[zerodameaon]

PSI is cool and all but you also have to factor in CFM. You can have 30psi on a T25 and its not going to hold a match to 30PSI on a TO4E-60.


Edit: OK so I somehow missed the turbo that car had the first time through, a HX40 is pretty decent.
I am going to have to side with Slieighty here, KAs should not be pushed over 300 on stock if you want to have the motor last past break in. That engine is a one in a production run chance of getting a stock engine that can withstand that kind of torture.

[bunny13]

Holset HX40 was used on J. Taylor's car

[bunny13]

What about the other record car? J. Taylor had the record at 528whp but Abel Racing hit 575 after that. So two engines in a production run?

[booey13]

PSI is cool and all but you also have to factor in CFM. You can have 30psi on a T25 and its not going to hold a match to 30PSI on a TO4E-60.


Edit: OK so I somehow missed the turbo that car had the first time through, a HX40 is pretty decent.
I am going to have to side with Slieighty here, KAs should not be pushed over 300 on stock if you want to have the motor last past break in. That engine is a one in a production run chance of getting a stock engine that can withstand that kind of torture.

How do you miss the turbo when it put down over 500hp? No way on a t25.

[zerodameaon]

How do you miss the turbo when it put down over 500hp? No way on a t25.

I missed that it stated a HX40 the first time I watched the video, it flashes the info quick and I wasn't paying attention. And yes you can push 30PSI out of the right T25 but its not going to give you any benefit over say 15. Also let me see you push 400+ on a 150kmi+ car you buy off craigslist, one that has been driven normal, not beat on or babied its whole life. If you can have it do that for more then a year(read reliably) dailying. Not 2 track days in a year or 500mi in that time then you are extremely lucky.

This is folklore mind you but John Henry beat a steam hammer but died as a result. So think of it this way, cool you hit 570 but your engine blew up, you have a record but all your work is done for, if it was done right the first time that engine could still be running.

[bunny13]

Yes, the motor blew at 575 due to rod failure. Because they were pushing the motor to its absolute limits with stock internals. But let's say that they backed the boost off and ran it at 450whp. Are you still going to tell me that you know for a fact that the motor was going to blow up? It's easy to dismiss these results when one is such a skeptic. It's kind of the dyno results versus your word.

I don't recall what became of Jeff Taylor's engine in the grand scheme of things, but I do recall him saying at one point he had clocked over 2000 hard miles on that setup and it was still running strong.

[booey13]

My point was you saw 30psi and 500hp. And guessed t25. Anyone well educated on turbo systems knows 30psi is stupid on that kind of a turbo. And let's say you have a 150k+ mile rb25 and push it to 500hp. I suppose it'll last forever? It boils down to personal preference, motor condition, and how much you're willing to spend. If you wanna sit there and tell me every ka will blow at 400 without being built you're a fool. Ka-t.org. Do your research. /thread

[jr_ss]

This thread is just as dumb as the SR vs KA threads. You all are arguing semantics. So what if a stock KA made xxx hp and an RB can handle xxx in stock trim. You have to pay to play, shit breaks and/or blows up. Buy what you can afford without using knock-off junk and be happy or shut the fuck up.

[booey13]

^exactly my point throughout this thread.

[zerodameaon]

My point was you saw 30psi and 500hp. And guessed t25. Anyone well educated on turbo systems knows 30psi is stupid on that kind of a turbo. And let's say you have a 150k+ mile rb25 and push it to 500hp. I suppose it'll last forever? It boils down to personal preference, motor condition, and how much you're willing to spend. If you wanna sit there and tell me every ka will blow at 400 without being built you're a fool. Ka-t.org. Do your research. /thread
Your the one assuming I was assuming.
I never assumed T25 I just used that as a comparison, and I never once said anything about 30psi being a great idea, its down right stupid. I chose close to the smallest turbo you will see on a Nissan and one of the larger ones you will commonly find. The rest... :picardfp: Again you assume to much grasshopper.
I will leave it at that.

[booey13]

Lol at editing your post. Yes leave it at that. You saw the video...500hp/30psi. And then you made the t25/cfm comment. So you were just pulling that out of your ass? What was your reasoning behind that?

[zerodameaon]

I chose close to the smallest turbo you will see on a Nissan and one of the larger ones you will commonly find.

Lol at editing your post. Yes leave it at that. You saw the video...500hp/30psi. And then you made the t25/cfm comment. So you were just pulling that out of your ass? What was your reasoning behind that?

Your right I did edit, decided to just make it simple for you. You just proved my thinking with the end of your post.

[bunny13]

Okay, so you pulled the t25 part out of your ass. But regardless of boost or CFM as you mentioned, the car still made 528hp. And that's what we're ultimately talking about is how much a stock KA can handle. So your CFM comment made next to no sense.