KA-T questions from a clueless idiot...

[RBS14]

Got a hodgepodge of questions......... here goes.

Using this pic cause the engine bay looks like ass and it has good examples of what i have questions about. sorry if its ur car........
http://store4.yimg.com/I/cheapturbo_1777_370659

(his compressor housing is SOOO close to the PS reservoir....... not dope.

what the hell is that huge red hose for? does it have to do with pressurazation (i know, i can't spell for shit)?

Another thing i've seen on a ton of KAT's is the (correct me if i'm wrong) oil feed line that goes right over the valvecover........
a) where is that line (steel braided in this pic) tapped into?
b) do you HAVE to run it right over the valvecover or can you run it around the motor?

I think i can figure the rest out.........

[mike13]

the red hose is recirculating the blow off valve discharge back into the air stream instead of letting it out into the atmosphere.
I'm not sure about the oil line, but it seems to me that there would be a number of different ways to route it, i agree, putting it right over the valve cover looks dumb, even if it is efficient/functional.
yeah i'll have to agree, thats one of the ugliest KA-T's ive ever seen.

[RBS14]

ohhhh........ it's a recirc hose for the bov. I couldn't tell if it was going into the bov or the cold pipe. I thought it was going out of the cold pipe into the intake pipe which made NO sense. thanks

[matlock]

(his compressor housing is SOOO close to the PS reservoir....... not dope.
Thats why there is that Tinfoil looking stuff around it lol, that is a rough install of a turbo I must say.

[RBS14]

^^^^^

yea, it's heat reflecting material....... but it's still DAMN close. too close for comfort. Tired of seeing hacked up Kat's...... i'll do right by my ka......haha

[SimpleS14]

It will take you alot of time to make everything look nice and neat.

I personally think Jeff (BoostedS14) from CIPmotorsports.com (http://www.cipmotorsports.com) has one clean KA-T...plus it has a high bling bling factor with all that chrome. :p

[Evil S14]

haha. thats my car!

you owe me $5 for using that pic :eek3d:

[Evil S14]

oh, and that was a pic of when it first got done, so of course its rough for god sakes... that was about 3 months ago, give me a little credit

[thelinja]

Not everyone wants their car to look like a bling bling show car. I've ridden in that car and I have to say it's pretty badass. Dirty/cluttered or not, it's gets the job done.

[Evil S14]

also, jeffs car is very clean... but mine isnt a kit, it was all custom made by me and my friend, so its not like we just put pipes together, it took alot of cutting measuring and welding.

[nightwalker]

can't you put the blow off valve on the turbo (hot) side of the piping and have the recirculating pipe close like all the SRs have it?

[BadMoJo]

iirc having it closer to the TB is better because you get a quicker response.

[Evil S14]

having it on the hot side would have made it 10x easier to install and look alot better, but it's best if its close to the TB

[andrave]

debateable... some people say surge is caused by the throttle body closing so its most efficient to vent it there, some people say its caused by the turbos continuing to spin so its best to vent it there, and then the guys with supras and thick wallets seem to be putting one on each side these days. But lets be honest, they would probably mount 10 of them for no real apparent reason other than "s'cool."

[LanceS13]

debateable... some people say surge is caused by the throttle body closing so its most efficient to vent it there, some people say its caused by the turbos continuing to spin so its best to vent it there, and then the guys with supras and thick wallets seem to be putting one on each side these days. But lets be honest, they would probably mount 10 of them for no real apparent reason other than "s'cool."

I believe fluid dynamics would say a pressure pulse would bounce off the suddenly closed throttle plate and head back towards the compressor, causing it to surge. Makes sense to me to have the bov close to the tb. But I'm guessing it doesn't make a HUGE difference as long as that pressure surge is released before it hits the compressor.

[andrave]

I have a feeling you just might be right (about it not making much difference).

[knghtryde]

What kinda turbo is being run by the car, and how much boost is being run if you guys don't mind me asking.

[Evil S14]

its a Garrett T3/T04E 60 trim compressor, .63 a/r turbine, that dyno was at .4 bar or ~5.9 psi. stock block, stock ECU, hacked MAFS and 370cc injectors

[knghtryde]

Why such a low psi? I'm just curious... but those are really good results from 5.9 psi, because the SR20DET at 6.5 psi is only pushing 194 rwhp on the dyno.

[Evil S14]

its such a low psi because i had no way to tune it, and i i didn't have a boost controller either, but i got both of those problems solved and shoule be seeing what a 10 psi dyno looks like

[AceInHole]

1. running the oil feed over the valve cover sucks. the steel line chewed up one of my valve covers.... i don't think the Q was answered tho, so: the oil feed line taps off the oil pressure sensor using a 1/8 BSPT fitting to a T.

2. i placed my BOV on the hot pipe for 2 reasons: 1: easier to plumb the recirc line 2: the intercooler is a restriction, and therefore you have more pressure on the hot side than the cold side (otherwise known as pressure drop). the point is to release pressure, so why release pressure from the side that has less of it?

3. I think people just like empty engine bays.....
http://www.engr.uconn.edu/~corrales/carsIM/IMG_7426.JPG

[knghtryde]

1. running the oil feed over the valve cover sucks. the steel line chewed up one of my valve covers.... i don't think the Q was answered tho, so: the oil feed line taps off the oil pressure sensor using a 1/8 BSPT fitting to a T.

2. i placed my BOV on the hot pipe for 2 reasons: 1: easier to plumb the recirc line 2: the intercooler is a restriction, and therefore you have more pressure on the hot side than the cold side (otherwise known as pressure drop). the point is to release pressure, so why release pressure from the side that has less of it?

3. I think people just like empty engine bays.....
http://www.engr.uconn.edu/~corrales/carsIM/IMG_7426.JPG

You can also do a cleaner job, for the oil line it's just more work. The Kits I've done us the Oil Filter Neck. If you take off the oil filter neck, you can drill a hole and tap it. Once tapped you can place a fitting on it so you can fun the oil line.You can Aim the fitting towards the back of the engine so that you can run the oil line behind the motor. That way you don't have to mess with you oil sensor... and while your tapping it.. you can install a T so you can mount an Oil Pressure gauge.

Thats just the way I did it... either way works and is okay...

[mike13]

oh, and that was a pic of when it first got done, so of course its rough for god sakes... that was about 3 months ago, give me a little credit
Hey bro, i didnt mean to knock your car so hard. I do give you credit. In fact i give you a ton of respect for doing the work yourself.
Great job

[RBS14]

Evil S14: well i give you more props if you made the mani yourself. but if you cleaned things up now it's all good. I'll send you 5$ promptly for using ur pic! ;)

AceInHole: thanks for answering the oil feed line question. so you run a 1/8" line? and i'm assuming the return line to the oil pan is 1/8" also then. I plan to be running ~6psi, is a stock fpr ok for that? I was reading Orion's thread over at FA and saw what he did.

Thanks again guys! :bigok:

[Evil S14]

once i get that fan shroud out of there it should look 10x better, my oil feed line also ate up my valve cover so i got a longer sone and ran it to the side. I also eliminated many of the useless vacuum hoses

[IKu]

2. i placed my BOV on the hot pipe for 2 reasons: 1: easier to plumb the recirc line 2: the intercooler is a restriction, and therefore you have more pressure on the hot side than the cold side (otherwise known as pressure drop). the point is to release pressure, so why release pressure from the side that has less of it?



lol, that reminded me of something i heard, i think it was dennis from unstable that said, "why blow off air you already cooled?" but yea, bov's are for protecting the turbo so it seems to be better on the hot pipe.

[AceInHole]

AceInHole: thanks for answering the oil feed line question. so you run a 1/8" line? and i'm assuming the return line to the oil pan is 1/8" also then. I plan to be running ~6psi, is a stock fpr ok for that? I was reading Orion's thread over at FA and saw what he did.

I run a -4 AN line from the T fitting to the turbo, with a restrictor in between (although i need to restrict it more. I'm still burning more oil than I'd like to be). I'm planning on running a -3 line as a restrictor line. It just hasn't come in the mail yet.

The stock FPR is fine as long as you're using larger injectors. Using something like a hacked MAF or S-AFC with bigger injectors negates the need for a better FPR or FMU, but in both cases it's a good idea to get a better fuel pump (my stock pump was leaning out by 6psi).

[AceInHole]

once i get that fan shroud out of there it should look 10x better, my oil feed line also ate up my valve cover so i got a longer sone and ran it to the side. I also eliminated many of the useless vacuum hoses

Yeah, but removing the fan shroud shows off the ugly/ dirty stock pulleys and components :p I just redid my wiring harness (it's invisible!) and now there's even more grime showing!! Gotta steam clean this thing, put a new lower cowling on, and plug up all the holes. Thankfully now I don't have exhaust gas spewing out where my old manifold had exploded....

http://www.engr.uconn.edu/~corrales/carsIM/IMG_7428.JPG

cars like ours [Do It Yourself'ers] are always a work in progress......

[SimpleS14]

what did you DIY KA-T owners do about the IC core and IC piping?

I'm considering making my own kit once that manifold from SS autochrome comes out.

[Evil S14]

ace, what kind of restrictor are you using, i have a .060" restrictor and it still burns oil a little on hard driving, although it is signifigantly less than before

for IC core, i use a PWR assembly
the pipes were used by cutting and welding sections of mandrel u bent pipe from jegs

[nightwalker]

so the SS autochrome mani is coming for sure? anyone know for sure? that would be SCHWEET!!!

[AceInHole]

what did you DIY KA-T owners do about the IC core and IC piping?

I'm considering making my own kit once that manifold from SS autochrome comes out.

NPR FMIC core with custom endtanks and custom IC piping.

There was some threads on the SS autochrome manifold over on NICO.... forgot the site they linked to, but AFAIK there was no price yet.

[RBS14]

95KoukiS14: Many different setups to go with, as many as you can think of. I know Starion front mounts are popular. I personally will be doing a v-mount setup with a spearco core. custom piping obviously.

AceInHole: thanks so much for all the info. I'm assuming you need a restrictor line because the oil pressure is too high for the seals in the turbo to take and it burns oil when you are higher in the rpm range because of the increased oil pressure? Is a restrictor line just one piece in the feed line or can you just use a smaller line alltogether, like a -3 AN line the whole way from the T to the turbo.... or is that what you mean? What size return line do you use? I'm assuming -4 AN. Hope i'm not an annoyance. Thanks again.

[AceInHole]

Stock oil pressure is 50 - 60psi at 3krpm. The most the turbo wants to see is 25psi. Thus you need some restriction.

I was only going to run a bout 12" of -3AN line..... in addition to the restrictor I currently have (it's just a washer shoved in one of the couplings.. :P). Currently my oil line is all -4AN

[Evil S14]

hell, i got 25 psi at idle. funny thing is i hooked the restrictor up to my oil pressure gauge and the psi was the same as factory

[AceInHole]

well, the gauge doesn't flow oil through it, so the restrictor would only cause the gauge to lag, unless the gauge was Tee'd off of the oil send line between the turbo and restrictor....

[240Stilo]

Ok so a search didn't help, but I have never heard of this restrictor issue for the oil line. What is the problem when you have more oil pressure going to the turbo?

[AceInHole]

Ok so a search didn't help, but I have never heard of this restrictor issue for the oil line. What is the problem when you have more oil pressure going to the turbo?

oil seeps past the bearing seals and into the compressor/ turbine, and you burn off oil. it's not a huge deal... but it helps. i believe the issue has been discussed a few times on Freshalloy.com

[Evil S14]

how much oil did you burn through before you put the resrtictor on?

[Ryan of Velocity]

It may be dirty but it be quick.

[AceInHole]

how much oil did you burn through before you put the resrtictor on?

it's not bad.... just makes it seem like my engine burns off oil a bit quicker than it should. Maybe a quart or two between oil changes?

[Evil S14]

mine used to be pretty bad, about a qt every 500 miles, but i also have a pretty nasty oil pan gasket leak too. thankfully it burns alot less now

[RBS14]

why not just run a oil pressure regulator? ......... they're pretty cheap.

The turbo i'm going to be running has a watercooled center section, where should i tap the feed and return lines for that? what size also? thanks guys!

[AceInHole]

why not just run a oil pressure regulator? ......... they're pretty cheap.
that's what we've been saying.

The turbo i'm going to be running has a watercooled center section, where should i tap the feed and return lines for that? what size also? thanks guys!
Throttle body warmer looks like a good candidate.

[insurgent]

Evil S14: well i give you more props if you made the mani yourself. but if you cleaned things up now it's all good. I'll send you 5$ promptly for using ur pic! ;)

AceInHole: thanks for answering the oil feed line question. so you run a 1/8" line? and i'm assuming the return line to the oil pan is 1/8" also then. I plan to be running ~6psi, is a stock fpr ok for that? I was reading Orion's thread over at FA and saw what he did.

Thanks again guys! :bigok:

you are supposed to run a larger oil return line than the oil feed line. This is because after the oil has passed through the turbo it is "whipped up" by the turbine, this makes the oil mix with air and become frothy, so there is a larger volume trying to pass through the return line. or atleast thats what i hear...

[Evil S14]

you are supposed to run a larger oil return line than the oil feed line. This is because after the oil has passed through the turbo it is "whipped up" by the turbine, this makes the oil mix with air and become frothy, so there is a larger volume trying to pass through the return line. or atleast thats what i hear...

good point, i didnt even see that.. my oil return is definitly -12an :eek3d:

[nrcooled]

Why such a low psi? I'm just curious... but those are really good results from 5.9 psi, because the SR20DET at 6.5 psi is only pushing 194 rwhp on the dyno.

Don't forget the SR has a t2small and not a massive t3/t04. I run 1bar and see numbers like evils14 sees at .4bar. When he turns up the boost there's no way I would keep up

Edit: I also have never seen an SR make 194hp stock more like 170-175hp

[knghtryde]

170-175?

I run a KA24E, with a 4x4parts specialty cam, a DSM T28 and 7psi. I was pushing 223rwhp. I know it's more the cam than the turbo itself. I also have a highflow 3 inch cat, custom exhaust, unorthodox underdrive pully and of course the T28, and the Cam.

An SR... And her in North Cali most the people I know put down my turbo KA, and are always talking about how they are pushing out 190 to 195 rwhp stock.

What makes me laugh is my engine is running basically the Same Size turbo I think. Not much difference from a T25 to a T28. I'm running basically stock PSI, and they keep telling me why I don't drop my KA for an SR.

What's your guys take on this.

[knghtryde]

Oh and my head is port and polished with a 3 angle valve job. Had that done when they installed my cam.

[kazuo]

Well Gee David, maybe you're putting down more power than us for the reasons you just specified! :PPPP

One thing alone doesnt make the difference, its all the crap you add onto the fact (cams, the extra .4L displacement, T28 instead of a T25, etc etc)

Bone-Stock SR20DET (that means NO MODS) puts down around 160HP (the usual rating of 200 is seen at the crank; Nadine pulled around 160 stock and 180 with 80mm exhaust in Import Tuner's dyno test; my homie Chris also put down 180 to the ground with stock SR and 80mm exhaust on the rollers).

Now then, if you had a STOCK KA24DE with, perhaps, a SR T25, 370cc Injectors with the SR manifold and 80mm and you were putting down better numbers than a SR at 7psi, okay fine. (And I imagine you would; see what a couple of the guys on FA are doing with that setup... yikes)

But this isn't the point. Who the hell is putting down a KA-T? I want to meet these people. People must be fucking dumb to talk shit about a KA-T; most of the decent, reliable ones I have seen will smoke my setup.

All it really is is that people don't want to put forth the effort required to turbo a KA. I personally didn't do it because I don't have a place to work on such a project, I don't feel like rebuilding my KA (turboing a motor with 190k is not a good idea... esp. when it has rod knock), and I didn't feel like going through the trouble of trying to put something together.

Now that Secret Services has hinted that they will be coming out with the hotness kit, I might have to tackle a KA-T...

Secret Services = the shit, they are my heroes
hahaha :P

Anyways back to KA-T talk, no more SR vs KA bullshit, I find this thread highly informative and interesting, please do not let it degenerate into another stupid KA vs SR argument.

Thanks :)

[knghtryde]

Art... I wasn't talking about you... There are a bunch of people talking shit here in San Jose... I will not name them (they are on Zilvia) just to prevent this from turning into an SR vs. KA thread.

Different Topic.

I'm gonna kewl my chamber, and raise the boost to about 15psi or so. What do you guys think would be a better and safer bet. An aqua mist system or a CO2 inline kewler. I've used the CO2 inline kewler, which kewls the air then recircs and kewl the fuel.

Anyone know which one would do it better. I've never personally used the aquamist system so I don't know if that is better or more reliable than the CO2.

CO2 is cheaper though.

EDIT: I am running a Side mount intercooler, that is the reason I need to use some sort of cooling system. I really do not like Front Mount Intercoolers, and I don't wanna pay the cash for an S15 or aftermarket Side Mount.

[Evil S14]

i dont know how long a typical SR swap takes, but to complete my KA-T project from start to finish it took 7 days of about 8-10 hours of work a day

[knghtryde]

Why so long? I did mine in 7 hours... but then again.. I have a pipe bender, and Tig Welder at home, plus compressor and all the tools and shit...

But seriously that's over 70 hours to do the turbo kit?

[PANDA]

3 days if you know what your are doing, have the right tools, and run into only minor problems...

and knghtryde..it's COOL..:p

[leespipedreams]

evil s14 Is that road out by barsto ca. bell mountain?

[AceInHole]

Don't forget the SR has a t2small and not a massive t3/t04. I run 1bar and see numbers like evils14 sees at .4bar.

I made 233 rwhp with a T25... with a clogged air filter. I cleaned my air filter and redid my hotpipe, and am pulling 10% more air at 8psi than I did when I dyno'ed.

Going to attempt to make around 250 at 8psi at the 240sxONE dyno day.

[kazuo]

I really do not like Front Mount Intercoolers, and I don't wanna pay the cash for an S15 or aftermarket Side Mount.

Dude... I have a S15 Intercooler for you if you want to pay me for it.

All I want is what I paid to get it here from Japan.. don't need it anymore, got something much better. :)

[Evil S14]

Why so long? I did mine in 7 hours... but then again.. I have a pipe bender, and Tig Welder at home, plus compressor and all the tools and shit...

But seriously that's over 70 hours to do the turbo kit?


we didnt have any help, it was me and a friend only. we didnt have a pipe bender so it was just trial and error. that was most of the time. all the other time was spent taking apart the front end, mounting the battery in the trunk, mounting the intercooler and just miscellaneous stuff. it was hard work

[SloS13]

I did mine (90% of the time I was alone) In about a day. Started at noon and was running boosted (Open DP and no intercooler) by 1am. Custom turbo too. Half of the time was spent running to the parts store. The next day i had the IC piping and exhaust made

[Evil S14]

I did mine (90% of the time I was alone) In about a day. Started at noon and was running boosted (Open DP and no intercooler) by 1am. Custom turbo too. Half of the time was spent running to the parts store. The next day i had the IC piping and exhaust made


yeah running to the parts store kicked my ass too, im really trying to think what took so damn long...