240 Race Car

[tnord]

As some of you might know i'm trying not to spend any mroe money on the S14 so i can build a race car this summer and have it ready for the following season.  The two cars i'm considering is a 70-73 Datsun 240Z and a 91-94 240SX.  Both cars would run in ITS.  I'm not too familiar with the S13, but i'm pretty sure the 91 and up's have the KA24DE in them.  I'm wondering if people could enlighten me on the changes made during the 91-94 time period.

[LanceS13]

You don't want a '94 b/c all usdm '94's were convertibles.  '91's supposedly have slightly better cams.  Coupes are lighter and more rigid than fastbacks.

[240meowth]

i know that 91 runs 0-60 @ 7.9, and 93 is @ 8.3 i heard it was from the cams.  94 only had the limited edition, which only came in automatic, and convertable, this thing is heavy as ####.

the coupe is approxmately 50 lbs lighter then the hatch back.

my 2 cent

[sykikchimp]

major change was the engine, not much else except the front bumber.  For race purposes, the 91' coupe would be your best bet.  unless your gonna do a motor swap, than any of the 89-93 coupes.  (not sure of weight in the 89-90 coupes though??)

[LanceS13]

I'm pretty sure any weight differences in years are gonna be taken care of when you strip the car.  The coupe will be lighter b/c of the lack of the huge hatch glass.  The hatch is said to have better weight distribution, but you can just balast the coupe (if that's allowed in ITS) for 50/50 distribution.

[tnord]

i'm not concerned with the weight, there is of course a minimum weight for the car which is easily attainable in either coupe or hatch form

i took another look at the rules, and the SOHC 240's are in a class below the DOHC, are these cars really that much slower to warrant putting them in a different class? i think there's only a 5hp difference in motors, are the suspensions set up differently on pre 91's?

[LanceS13]

there's a 15hp difference but the chassis and suspension is the same

[LanceS13]

BTW...where'd you get a rulebook?  I want to eventually run IT (of course I can't afford it now, but maybe later) and I'd like to start looking up on it.

[tnord]

I run with Midwestern Council of Sports Car Clubs, not SCCA which is i assume what you're looking for

to answer your question, i got it from my friend/co-worker who runs a Datsun 1600 Roadster in GP and i currently building an 89 CRX, i'm not sure exactly how to go about actually getting one

[my240likenoother]

i would run the SHOC not that much of a differnce in HP but cost is better

[Drifting Ricer]

Hey detailer man ( tnord). So when you say RACE car. You mean what exactly?? Stripped interior and huge turbo (not street legal)??? How much $$$ does take to turn a 240sx into a RACE car?

[LanceS13]

He's talking about IT (Improved Touring). I think that engine mods are pretty limited and restricted to the engine that came in the car (that means N/A KA) and suspensioin mods are stressed. Full roll cage and stripped interior.

I have an older friend in the SCCA that runs a ITS 280Z and he says he has about $5-6K in the car alone (of course he also said that the most competitive cars have $15-20K easy)...and a race weekend--tires, travel expenses, entry fees, etc.--run about $1000 per weekend. It's relatively cheap and great for the entry level road racer. I want to eventually join in on the fun myself after I get out of college and have some extra money.


(Edited by LanceS13 at 10:19 pm on Jan. 10, 2002)

[Drifting Ricer]

hmmm Hey lances13 you runnig IT someday? I want to (in a couple of years)#### so if people get a SR swap that means they're in what class???

[LanceS13]

I hope to.
I don't know enough about it to say what class an SR 240 would be in...which is why I want a rulebook.  But if I had to guess...possibly one of the GT classes?

[drift freaq]

well in answer to your question ITS 240z 's led the class for years here in Cali and there is an engine builder in Northern Cali named Dave Rebello of Rebello racing that gets 200hp out of a stock 240z engine which means the car kicks ass without violating the rules of modification for the class. I almost bought and ITS 240z once to go ITS racing.

[tnord]

1. by race car i mean stripped interior, no AC/radio/heater or anything else that would slow the car down, full roll cage, 2 race buckes, 5 pt harnesses, and a fuel cell,  Lance is right, engine mods are extremely limited in IT (to keep cost down), but suspension mods are pretty much free reign

2. I plan for cost to be about 3-4 grand for the car, (free labor) you can really spend as much money on a race car as you want, paint jobs can get pretty rediculous, especially considering your just gonna rub it off in turn one anyway, and Lance i dunno where in the world your friend is traveling to, but for council our entry fees are about 150, decent tires last you at least a full season, we camp at the track, and it's about 125 bucks for gas, a thousand dollars for a single weekend is absurd

3. SR20's aren't allowed in any class currently, but i'm guessing since they are OEM overseas, that you could petition and get it classed, i'm guessing at least GT2, maybe even GT1 with the big V8's

4.  I would love to have a 240Z and i'm fully aware of their dominance, the only thing is the cost, i haven't looked into it too carefully, but i think it would cost more to build a 240Z ITS car than a 240sx ITS or ITA car

[LanceS13]

Maybe I misunderstood him...I thought that was a bit steep :confused:  Fine with me...that's even less money.
Are R compounds really that durable?  I wouldn't think thay'd last more than a couple weekends of hard racing.

[tnord]

Actually, the tires i'm talking about aren't full slicks, they've got like 1/32 tread depth er somethin, my friend has a set of Kumho's (victoracer?) that he has run for a full season

[DSC]

Are you guys talking about solo 1 or actually like a race I would see on speed vision but lower classes? You get sponsers and stuff or is it more of a club event?

[tnord]

Just like a race you would see on speedvision.  Have you ever heard/seen the valvoline runoffs?  You can get sponsors, but what i would be doin isn't for money. SCCA gives out prize money, but Midwestern Council doesn't.

[HippoSleek]

I've been having the same thoughts about making an ITA car (89-90 sohc).  Lance - check out:

http://www.scca.org/amateur/club_racing/classes/index.html

-there is a link at the top right to a car class database. &nbsp;Personally, I like the ITA cars better b/c they are cheaper than ITS (to be competitive). &nbsp;Although ITA means getting your as handed to you by CRXs <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':('> &nbsp;Does your council have &quot;spec&quot; classes like spec RX-7 or Miata? &nbsp;That's the cheapest by far.

The big drawback is licensing! &nbsp;Getting your SCCA or NASA license around here is expensive and takes a couple years. &nbsp;I hope to get a good start on my log book this year... hope!

[LanceS13]

Thanks Hippo, but I've seen that. &nbsp;How do you get licensed?

<a href="www.improvedtouring.com" target='_blank'>www.improvedtouring.com</a> might be of some help for those that are curious about what we're talking about.
check this out
http://www.improvedtouring.com/images/monthly/TristanRA7.jpg

(Edited by LanceS13 at 10:13 am on Jan. 11, 2002)

[tnord]

now that's the kind of race car i'm talkin bout, yeah council supports spec miata, but not spec rx-7, although we do usually have about 5 or 6 first gen rexers runnin and 2-3 second gen, i don't think runnin a spec miata is cheaper, how much is it to buy/build one?

[HippoSleek]

A spec Miata can be built for about $7-8K and be COMPETITIVE! &nbsp;You can buy a used rig starting at about $7K and a &quot;new&quot; spec car for about $15K.

The fact that they are competitive is what impresses me. &nbsp;In an ITS car seems to cost at least $15K to keep up - minimum. &nbsp;But in the spec cars, there is only so much you can do - so drivers matter more than building a class killer.

cone filter ($50), spec cat back ($180), full suspension package ($1100), wheels, tires, brakes, and cage ($500-3000)! &nbsp; Figure you can pick up a good shell for as little as $2500 or so and add in the fact that a NEW crate motor is only $1500. &nbsp;With that, all you need is to learn how to drive and you can win.

Lance - I'm starting my NASA logbook this year. &nbsp;To get your license, you need to fill up enough of the log book to get into the advanced classes at HPDEs. &nbsp;Then, you have to can go to a school and be rated to get a provisional competition license. &nbsp;Four incident free races and you get your full license. &nbsp;Total process can take between one and four years, depending on money, time, participation, and ability. &nbsp;Figure you will attend at least 10 HPDEs ($200-400 ea.), 1-2 competition schools ($300+ ea.), then you get your provisional. &nbsp;BTW: when you test, you must be in a race car (rental $700-1500 if you don't have one). &nbsp;