16x8 wheels tire stretch?

[philbro]

i just got a set of 16x8 volk mesh wheels from japan and i need some tires. Whats the smallest tire i can stetch on them? 205? 215? please let me know what you think.
thanks
Phil

[the head]

a 245 will fit very nicely on that with no strech so a 225 would fit and be stretched not sure on a 215 though

[knightrider]

im gonna be trying 205/55 es100 on a set of 16x8 i have ill let ya know how that works out, but i would think 205 would be nice and stretched since 205mm equals about 8 inches

[philbro]

i was thinking the sanme thing.....Plus there are bot all that many tires availabe in a 215. It is either 205 or 225. I really did not want to go up to a 225.

[gogeeta13]

Well, you better be mounting it yourself, or personally know the tire guy, because getting the bead to pop out and seat is going to be a bitch. On my uncles M5, we had to take the pressure up to 78 psi before his tires seated. THey were 205 snows on a 16x8 wheel too...

[s13srmadness]

why do you want to stretch it?
a 225 is the perfect fit for an 8" wheel.
are you going to drift and only drift in this car?

[nokeone]

i've seen as low as 205 on a 9 inch wide wheel in person which makes me think a 205 would be fine on a 8 inch wide one...

i have 225's on my 17x9's right now and i'd much prefer a 215 but they were out of stock when i ordered the tires...

[brianglawson]

it would work, here is a 17x10 with a 195!!!

[nokeone]

it would work, here is a 17x10 with a 195!!!

siiiiick!!!..:D

[nightwalker]

CRAAAAAAAAZZZYYYYY stretch. Insane. You better bring some bread to get that put on at a tire shop. I think a 215 has the nicest fit on a 8inch wide wheel. It's stretched, but not too insane. Could you imagine the breakaway snap on that 195 on the 10?

[HaLo]

Am I the only one not liking it? :wtf:

Maybe it's because I'm no drifter and I don't care much about drifting...
:D

[98sr20ve]

OMG, who the $%&# would do that. I would kill to have some 16X8's so that I could get some 245's on my car.

[nokeone]

OMG, who the $%&# would do that. I would kill to have some 16X8's so that I could get some 245's on my car.

grippers...:rolleyes:..

lol.:p

[DSC]

hehe, grip sucks! We just don't as big of an angle :) but we're slipping...and at the speeds it takes to make 245's slip :p

[Ghettokracker71]

grippers...:rolleyes:..

lol.:p
I'd be a gripper...and a once-in-a-while slide out my rear end to show off a little bit type of guy:)

[gogeeta13]

I am not saying it cant be done, just saying, any NORMAL tire shop will never do such a thing. Playing with pressures as high as you need to make it stretch like that is very dangerous. Unless you persaonlly know someone, no normal tire jockey would take that risk.

[Itsuki]

Well, you better be mounting it yourself, or personally know the tire guy, because getting the bead to pop out and seat is going to be a bitch. On my uncles M5, we had to take the pressure up to 78 psi before his tires seated. THey were 205 snows on a 16x8 wheel too...

wow 78psi you must have been doing soemthing wrong, i have 205's on my 8.5 inch rims and it only takes about 30-35psi each time...


i have never had a problem with my tires on my rims, ive gone through atleast 4 sets of tires, ive changed them myself several times, even had some "tire jokeys" at big o tire do it once (never again though cuase they scratched my rim)

The reason drifters strech there tires is becuase it has less flex on the sidewall which makes the tire more predictable during a drift, and it looks cool....

[phatwurl]

just put bicycle tires on.

[Ghettokracker71]

just put bicycle tires on.
lol...talk about a drift tire....lol....talk about easy to loose traction!

[nokeone]

lol...talk about a drift tire....lol....talk about easy to loose traction!

let's try and have at least a slight semblance of realism here...

donut spares are the shit!!..:D

[uiuc240]

OMG, who the $%&# would do that. I would kill to have some 16X8's so that I could get some 245's on my car.

I totally agree. I think this whole stretched tire dorifto trend is so lame. I remember when this was cool back in the 80s...but it was stretched tires with whitewalls on Daytons in the barrio. :rolleyes:

Eric

[nightwalker]

little stretch is cool, and actually helps with the way a car transitions. Like 195 on 7, but 195 on 10 is too much.

[groozdas]

it would work, here is a 17x10 with a 195!!!

looks so BAAADDDD!

[DoriftoSlut]

Unless you guys knwo what the hell you are talking about, dont talk. NOT being specific to anyone here.

A. drifting IS about grip. Don't believe that drifting on grippy tires is good.... well you are more of a DRIFTA then. Ass sliding and circuit drifting are 2 different things. HELL, cone dodging and circuit drift are 2 different things, imo...

B. Stretching sidewalls gives your car a lot more immediate and predictable response. It is not that you do not want grip.... Yah sure, its not great for gripping.... but nothing you do to set up a DRIFT only car will be that great for grip. Car too low, suspension too stiff caster too much, camber is excessive, tires are stretched, etc... If you do not drift, you do not get it. No i mean DRIFT. Not pose, or tail slide every now and then. That is tail sliding. Every now and then.

C. I have 215/40/17 on 17x9 F and 215/45 (sometimes 225/45) /17 on 9J in the rear. I go to a "ghetto" tire place. $25 mount and balance my 2 fronts (more stretched) including disposal of old tires and wheel weights, etc... And I walked up, showed him my wheels, tires, and notified him he may not be able to do it... He took them, put it on the machine, bing bam boom, seated perfectly (first try might i add... at like 30-somethin psi). then he smirked and asked me why other places seem to think that is hard to do. NO problems with my tires.

D. i dunno what D. was gonna be, but yeah... oh.,.. 205 on 8 inch is no problem. Signal puts 205/45, 17x9 on Foresberg's 180sx. And Hariguchi rocks 215/40/17 17x10 on his S13 coupe. Shiiit. 245's? Maybe 245/35/18 on 18x10.5.... MAYBE.

[DoriftoSlut]

Oh yeah... those SSRs look fucked up. Who needs 195s on a 17 inch wheel? Oh! KA24DE's maybe! HAhahahahaha.

Seriously, what a waste. 195 is a Hachiroku size and hachi's can't run 17s. tsk tsk. 195 would not be enough grip. Oh i suppose those tail sliders may enjoy it for the Wal Mart parking lots or some other "Street DRIFTA" spotz.

[Var]

What's the harm in running the right size tire on a 9 inch wheel and still drifting? Is it the fact that it will have too much grip? You'll just drift faster if you can do it. I wanna run 245(17x9inch) in the front and 275(17x10.5inch) in the rear with some spacers. I dont get stretched sidewalls..the techincal difference i mean. I guess i'll just have to try it out myself and see if it's better.

[nokeone]

What's the harm in running the right size tire on a 9 inch wheel and still drifting? Is it the fact that it will have too much grip? You'll just drift faster if you can do it. I wanna run 245(17x9inch) in the front and 275(17x10.5inch) in the rear with some spacers. I dont get stretched sidewalls..the techincal difference i mean. I guess i'll just have to try it out myself and see if it's better.


B. Stretching sidewalls gives your car a lot more immediate and predictable response. It is not that you do not want grip.... Yah sure, its not great for gripping.... but nothing you do to set up a DRIFT only car will be that great for grip. Car too low, suspension too stiff caster too much, camber is excessive, tires are stretched, etc... If you do not drift, you do not get it. No i mean DRIFT. Not pose, or tail slide every now and then. That is tail sliding. Every now and then.
.

^^..that's pretty much it..it changes the characteristics of the tire..makes it more predictable...more controllable...no sidewall flex...no loading up to wait for...just smooth transition...

[Var]

but wouldn't it slow you down for circuit drifting? i'd assume a good drifter with a properly setup car would want to run some meats on it so he could drift faster..better for competitions right?

[nokeone]

i don't see how it would slow you down?..you mean your lap times?..because on the corners you wanted to grip you would be limited by your smaller tires?..

most drift competitions involve only a few judged corners...not an entire circuit...and while entry speed and the continuation of this speed through the corner is important...your overall time on the course is meaningless to your final score...

[Var]

i know that much. but i was talking to my friend yesterday who drifts an s14, and he said judges look at how fast you drift. He was explaining to me how if you make your car oversteer you can't win competitions cause you drift slower when your car oversteers. He said his car is setup to slightly understeer so when it does drift it slides faster. Therefore i assumed that corner speed was very important. so if you car had enough power to drift with 275 tires in the rear, wouldnt you do it?

[nokeone]

haha...understeer to drift?..tell your friend he's wrong and doesn't have the first clue as to what drifting is...

the very definition of drifting requires a car to oversteer...thus requiring you to countersteer...leading to a careful balance of weight in which the car is traveling sideways...the front tires countersteered away from the inside of the turn and the rear tires spinning faster then the car is traveling and losing traction..allowing it to slide through a corner...

basically you oversteer..the rear end come out...in order to catch up to the rear end and prevent a spin you need to get the front end in line...this is done with countersteer...

if you are understeering what happens?..the front pushes through a corner and the rear follows...how is this drifting?

[Var]

tell your friend he's wrong and doesn't have the first clue as to what drifting is...


I wont tell him that cause he drifts with alex from battlerversion, and i think they can both drift pretty well.

let me start over.


when you set up a car to naturally oversteer, you cant drift fast enough. that's why my friend set his car up to understeer a little bit so when he get's the ass end out, it carries a lot more speed through the turn.

anyways, the whole point of that example is to show that judges care about your cornering speed which leads me back to my question about the tires. if you had a car that had enough power to drift with 275 tires, would you do it or put some 215 on instead?

[knightrider]

uhh, drifting is oversteer, if your understeering, your running into the outside of the turn, any drift is oversteering, thats why idealy, your front is pointing at the apex of the turn, not the outside of the apex. so yea, maybe im jus not understanding what your friend said, but i think its kinda uh yea, dumb

[nokeone]

ok that makes a tiny bit more sense...i can see wanting your car to be more balanced through a turn to carry speed...i guess you could use understeer initially to create more speed...then countering with oversteer once ideal speed is reached...dunno how it would work exactly cause it doesn't really make much sense...but it's interesting...be cool to talk to him directly..lol..i feel like we are playing telephone..:)

yes judges do care about speed...entry and exit...however it is only one of many many factors they look at...Dirty Dousan did a post on it once..pretty informative...

and about the tires...275 just strikes me as too much tire..regardless of power...it wont allow you to go any faster and it seems like it would just get in the way...why spin that much tire if you don't need to...

i just don't see any possible benefit to such wide tires...

[Var]

uhh, drifting is oversteer, if your understeering, your running into the outside of the turn, any drift is oversteering, thats why idealy, your front is pointing at the apex of the turn, not the outside of the apex. so yea, maybe im jus not understanding what your friend said, but i think its kinda uh yea, dumb


man haven't you ever seen Initial D!!! Tak's friends made fun of him when he described drifting as the front tires sliding through the turn..he was just describing the more advanced all wheel drift. haha.

nokeone good to get your opinion finally... "why spin all that tire when you dont need too." excellent

about the balance of the car..play some Gran Turismo.. maybe it sounds stupid but it's pretty real. If you make your car oversteer by putting less traction in the rear, you are drifting slower. Sticky tires make you drift faster, same with wider tires. Makes sense to me.

[nightwalker]

did you guys know that a true drift is actually under and oversteer?

[nokeone]

at the same time?...is this what you are saying?...your front tires are understeering while the rear end is oversteering?

i think the real problem is we have like 5 different discussions going on at once and they are getting confusing...lol

[nokeone]

about the balance of the car..play some Gran Turismo.. maybe it sounds stupid but it's pretty real. If you make your car oversteer by putting less traction in the rear, you are drifting slower. Sticky tires make you drift faster, same with wider tires. Makes sense to me.

i have and yes...

but see there is a limit is what i was trying to get at...at some point you can't get any more..you can't maintain a drift at any higher speed and still be in control...you don't need to to win competitions and perform perfect drifts...

[Var]

at the same time?...is this what you are saying?...your front tires are understeering while the rear end is oversteering?

i think the real problem is we have like 5 different discussions going on at once and they are getting confusing...lol


HAHA ok i gotcha man. i get where you're going with everything now. thanks

[adey]

I run 205/55/16 on my 16*8, and they don't look stretched... they are, marginally, but not noticably. If they made 195 in 16s (I'm sure someone does), you could easily fit a 195/55/16 on it if you wanted.

edit: I'm pretty darn sure those aren't 17*10. Try 15*10.
SSR only made FORMULA mesh in 17", and that is obviously a reverse mesh... therefore, that can at MOST be a 16" wheel... but it's more likely than not a 15" since at least stateside (I know I know that pic was taken in JP) 16" SSR mesh of any sort are super duper rare.

[DoriftoSlut]

Ahhhh....

about the understeering car thing.... Meh... its kinda true, kinda not. its all dependant on our style of drifting. If you are aggressive with a lot of ebrake, clutch kick, full throttle, etc... You will get REALLY high slip angles REALLY fast (instead of slowly and progressively). Anyway, when you car steps out that much really fast, you want your rear to try and get back in line, so you can clutch kick or ebrake or throttle it to stay out. Instead of getting sideways and then off throttle, and over rotating cause your car oversteers too much...

Anyway, to do this, you use a slight bit of Toe OUT in front and toe IN in the rear. Toe out in front will increase your turn in response (makes the car jittery as hell though) and the toe in makes your rear want to track straight (and get back in line).

like I said, that is only for a certain drifting style though. Poosay ass Dirty D (hehe) is super smooth and consistant. He likes Toe in or 0 toe in front and toe out slightly in the rear. This allows him to smoothly break loose, a carry speed through the turn, slowly bleeding it off as the angle increases. This set up is GOOD for NA lower powered cars (like KA) where you do not have the response or power to accelerate once sideways like a turbo car.

Blah blah blah... how about we all shut up and just go out and drift already.... oh i would but my FUCKING car wiring sucks...... Grrrrrrrrrr.

[Var]

Blah blah blah... how about we all shut up and just go out and drift already.... oh i would but my FUCKING car wiring sucks...... Grrrrrrrrrr

how bout i work 52 hours a week and i barely have time to wipe my ass much less go to a track day. And track days never fall on Sunday, the only dam i'm off. Too dangerous to drift in the moutains. I dont have lsd. bla bla bla..you go fix your wiring and go drift

[DoriftoSlut]

Thats what i get 4 hours sleep a night doing. Either fixing my car or drifting it. Sucks to hear of the long hours buttttttt no one is forcing you to work that much.

As for the 275s, what kind of power you pan on having? a nice grippy 245 on a 10.5 wheel is plenty of grip and stretch for something 300 hp+. even 400 prolly. I mean 255 is not necessary for drifting unless you are making 400-600+ Hp.

This is what needs to be considered.... stretching sidewalls for drifting is GOOD. It does not decrease contact patch. a 215 on a 7 inch and 215 on a 9 inch are still 215 mm section width. So if you wanna use a 265 or something... you would want somethin like 11 or 11.5J wheels. A. rare, B. heavy and C. again, who needs a tire that wide? A bigger turbo gives more power, but also more lag (generally) so most engines putting out tip top high end power make it in an unuseable power band for drifting and the response is really bad if you need to modulate the throttle....

[Var]

agreed. thank you. i will have a set for grip, and 3 sets for drifting. lol. im not that rich,

[nokeone]

Ahhhh....

how about we all shut up and just go out and drift already.... oh i would but my FUCKING car wiring sucks...... Grrrrrrrrrr.

some cheese good sir with that excellent whine of yours?..:p

at least you have a car bastard...lol...

actually i do too now..(heehee)...but it's not in any sort of drivable condition yet...:(

[DoriftoSlut]

some cheese good sir with that excellent whine of yours?..:p

at least you have a car bastard...lol...

actually i do too now..(heehee)...but it's not in any sort of drivable condition yet...:(
And I suppose my car being stuck below 2500 RPM with some sort of MAFS problem is just... tip top? Bah. Fucking thing is pissing me off soooooo much.

[nokeone]

yeah i feel ya..mine too...i'm having to swap out half the rear suspension arms with my former car cause the bolts on this one are seized and i can't get my suspension or 5 lug on the passenger side rear of the car...VERY frustrating...i wanna be a baller and pay people to work on my car and just get to drive it...but i'd settle for a lift and an indoor area to work on it and air tools..fuck laying in wet dirt and grass...arrgghhhhh

[Touring240]

I have 16x8 wedsport fins +23 with yokohama ES100. I have run both 225/45/16 and 245/45/16 on them. I have around 250 whp (red top, s14 turbo @12psi, 3" turbo back)

Performance wise I am more into grip (slalom, autoX) than drift and I even will drag race from time to time. I like the 245 a lot more as there is a lot more grip. Its not as predictable as the 225s were when drifting though. With the 245's there is a slight bulge and with the 225s they are flush with very slight stretch.

here are some crappy pics to compare:
205/45/16 kumho 711
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid85/p0be39f94b41dccbfaf6cea3923b9e9b5/fac87441.jpg
225/45/16 es100 http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid87/p8038e7c47556f15790db336f39046df4/faa71a31.jpg
245/45/16 es100 (add .orig.jpg for full size) (front is 225/45/16 on 16x7.5 +22)
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid102/p44cbbb0da261cf5b9e3da1a49f1b9c9f/f9bb67df.jpg