Subaru BRZ = 240sx Successor

[scottie]

Looks like we have a solid successor to the 240sx chassis in 10 years when they come down on price.

2012 MAX ORIDO D1GP NEW MACHINE TOYOTA V8 86 SHAKEDOWN - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUPCwolLrsY&feature=youtube_gdata_player)

Yes Please!!!

[Zilmatic]

Not really a successor just cause its a entry level JDM RWD car...

[HyperTek]

240sx successor?? did you forget the ae86 lol

[scottie]

Well Toyota / Subaru chassis. I wish Nissan would answer the call.

[TheWolf]

wow.. another v8 high HP drift machine based on an anemic factory car..

what's next, a v8 powered RWD fiat 500?

[KiLLeR2001]

Nissan will revive the Silvia if the BRZ/FR-S does well. I can almost guarentee it. I've been telling all my friends who own Subarus / Toyotas to trade in their current car for one when they release... :)

[Zilmatic]

^ Possibly if the economy and market for these kinda cars get better.... hopefully they wont fuck it up like what mazda did with the rx-8

[Corbic]

Why does everyone go Gaga over the BRZ and not the FRS? Subaru has done well their their marketing.

A true "240sx" successor would be a car that sells extremely well (in large volumes) but then a few years latter prices drop to the floor. I don't see the FRZ selling in great volumes or even sustaining multiple generations (I hope they do however).

The 350z is right now the "new 240sx", there are a million out there and you can get one for 10k. You'd have to spend at least 10k to get a 240sx to perform like a Z33.

FRZ is $25k, while its a great car, is it $15k greater than my Z? Is it worth $500 a month to me? Not really, and most 240sx owners are bigger broke asses then even me.

[MadScientist]

I feel sorry for this car already, its had its heard ripped out, given a fat ass, and now the Devil of all Drifters is going to tear it a new asshole and smash its body into every bit of concrete it comes near... This is how we feel about your car Subaru!
Oh and the EVO is still better... naner naner... :boink:


what's next, a v8 powered RWD fiat 500?

Or a GTR powered Juke... yeah!!! Nissan does kick ass!!

[Matej]

Too bad it is ugly.

[Zilmatic]

http://www.stancenation.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/20120331-204607-640x426.jpg

[BOROSUN]

I can sort of see it...Comparing technically it's very similar to the 240sx more than the z33.

[ronmcdon]

you know there is more to life than the 240sx.
who cares what the sucessor is, just appreciate the car for what it is.

a lot of 240 owners (on this site at least) aren't just broke, they're never happy with any new car, always have something to whine about.
It's absolutely depressing to come on here and see threads like this.

[S-Nation S13]

No the stupid v8 America bullshit has hit the mother land..no! At least revive the 2j ..Its been proven..

[Corbic]

No the stupid v8 America bullshit has hit the mother land..no! At least revive the 2j ..Its been proven..

Yes, cause V8s are not.

I'm sure that V8 weighs less and makes more power than most 2Js, all the while not suffering form turbo lag and heat issues. That is why V8s are dominating in professional drifting.

[sr20comic]

Its been announced that Nissan is developing an s16 concept. It's happening

[Zilmatic]

^ It hasnt been announced its just a rumor.... I wouldnt count on it

[TougeSR20Kid]

^^ seriously... It's hard for me to get even a wiggle down there from this, cus after all it's just another v8 powered drift missile, would be way cooler if they had just upgraded on the existing platform or swapped for a 6 cylinder turbo

As for the car itself, I hope they do well, can't see why they wouldn't aside from the shitty economy and rising gas prices, but hey hopefully there are enough spoiled rich high school and college kids, young professionals, and avid Subaru enthusiasts... As far as the FRS I can already see the Honda boys and scion boys fucking it all up and making them all lame

[S-Nation S13]

Yes, cause V8s are not.

I'm sure that V8 weighs less and makes more power than most 2Js, all the while not suffering form turbo lag and heat issues. That is why V8s are dominating in professional drifting.

Reason why their domination is bc everyone's using them...popularity in numbers thats all...

[RB25 ZENKI]

is it just me or is the brz ugly as hell! and how can it be its "successor"? the s chassis is and always will be one of the best cars to drift.

[Corbic]

Reason why their domination is bc everyone's using them...popularity in numbers thats all...

Things are popular for a reason. V8s are popular because they are inexpensive, compact, simple and make shit tons of power. They also make that power right off idle, meaning when you lift off the gas and hit the throttle again there is no turbo lag. This is crucial when trying to do tandems and keep a perfect line.

Don't hate the playa, hate the game.

[codyace]

Things are popular for a reason. V8s are popular because they are inexpensive, compact, simple and make shit tons of power. They also make that power right off idle, meaning when you lift off the gas and hit the throttle again there is no turbo lag. This is crucial when trying to do tandems and keep a perfect line.

Don't hate the playa, hate the game.

Pushrods, Apple Pie, and Brunettes.

What else do ya need in life.

Ok, maybe Monster Trucks.

[simmode1]

The 350z is right now the "new 240sx", there are a million out there and you can get one for 10k. You'd have to spend at least 10k to get a 240sx to perform like a Z33.

FRZ is $25k, while its a great car, is it $15k greater than my Z? Is it worth $500 a month to me? Not really, and most 240sx owners are bigger broke asses then even me.
This. All of it. It's like Nissan realized most of us would just rip out the backseats anyway & saved us the trouble. Oh, you still want backseats? G35 Coupe. Oh, you're getting more mature but still wanna get your hoon on? G35 Sedan 6mt. Their performance specs are all reasonably enough close enough to make me happy.

At this point, I couldn't care less about a 240sx successor. Now, a successor to the Silvia? That's a different story. The Genesis is the closest right now. It would be great if it lost a lot of weight when the next gen comes out. I might consider straying when the 2013+ Genesis coupe 2.0T gets cheaper.

Until the new FR-S/BRZ is offered with some factory boost , it's not even on my bang for your buck radar. And no, I do not want a TRD supercharger...

[ILoveMyRHS13]

Too bad it is ugly.
Ding ding ding! We have a winner!

[BustedS13]

what a sweet ride, i'd totally take one of those over a z33 and ten grand in my pocket

[Sterlz]

NIssan has to cut this juke-r crap and just make a new silvia. At least that 86 has a toyota v8, that actually sounds better than the typical LS. But yeah I cant wait for someone to throw a 2j in there.

[ghoti]

No the stupid v8 America bullshit has hit the mother land..no! At least revive the 2j ..Its been proven..

revive the 2jz? I think they tried with the sc300 but it was NA. Also the IS300 & GS300 which are also NA and weigh a shit ton.

[BustedS13]

revive the 2jz? I think they tried with the sc300 but it was NA. Also the IS300 & GS300 which are also NA and weigh a shit ton.

the sc300 started production before the mkiv supra

[Catch240]

Pushrods, Apple Pie, and Brunettes.

What else do ya need in life.

Ok, maybe Monster Trucks.

truth...

I agree that the 350z = 240sx successor...shit ton of them out there and you can get one for 10k. :)

[MadScientist]

Solid Pivots, Cherry Pie, and Red Heads

What else do ya need in life.

Ok, maybe Trophy Trucks.

Corrected this for you...

[BustedS13]

truth...

I agree that the 350z = 240sx successor...shit ton of them out there and you can get one for 10k. :)

pretty sure the Z is the 300Z's successor

[Corbic]

pretty sure the Z is the 300Z's successor

What is a 300Z?

[HyperTek]

get off the drift craze. just about everything is anythings successor. lmao

[raz0rbladez909]

get off the drift craze. just about everything is anythings successor. lmao

Seriously I dunno anyone in their right mind that would go out and buy a brand new car and do something as stupid as drifting with it. Such a pointless way to fuck up a nice car.

[biggie]

NIssan has to cut this juke-r crap and just make a new silvia.
As a correction, Nissan had nothing to do with the Juke-R and was actually against it. Company in Aussy land did everything to both Juke-Rs.

[exitspeed]

As a correction, Nissan had nothing to do with the Juke-R and was actually against it. Company in Aussy land did everything to both Juke-Rs.

As a correction to the correction...Nissan of JAPAN had nothing to do with it. Nissan of Europe and RML Group crafted the vehicle. Just sayin :cool:

[simmode1]

I thought it was absolutely hilarious that the Juke-R actually weighed MORE than the actually donor GTR... #lolpointlessfail

[Silverbullet]

pretty sure the Z is the 300Z's successor

In terms of a car model name, yes.

If you look at the car's purpose and price, inexpensive performance car, it is very similar to a 240sx.

I believe new 240sx's were selling in the low to mid $20,000 in the 90s. If you adjust a growing economy and inflation, that is $30-35,000 in today's dollar. Z's have held their value much better after 10 years than a 240sx, but if you consider what your getting, a Z is a much better performer to a 240sx as well.

[WanganRunner]

The 350z is right now the "new 240sx", there are a million out there and you can get one for 10k. You'd have to spend at least 10k to get a 240sx to perform like a Z33.

^^
This is absolutely true, I'm looking for one myself right now.

[Matej]

The Aston Martin V12 Vantage is the 240SX successor.

[CleanAndLegit]

nissan is releasing the new nissan s16 late this year, friend works for nissan, and theyve been told about it.

[codyace]

I thought it was absolutely hilarious that the Juke-R actually weighed MORE than the actually donor GTR... #lolpointlessfail

Both are pointless fat fails, but who am I to judge.

[Corbic]

nissan is releasing the new nissan s16 late this year, friend works for nissan, and theyve been told about it.

Bullshit.

Cars don't appear out of thin air.

[nomoremk2]

Why is anyone holding on for a new 240? Fuck the s chassis. Nissan gave you the Z33, They can be had for cheap enough. I don't understand the fanboy obsession with the s chassis. It's been dead for a long time and there are a ton of other, better platforms for any kind of build you may be doing.

[KiLLeR2001]

Q1 2015 new Silvia will emerge.

[exitspeed]

nissan is releasing the new nissan s16 late this year, friend works for nissan, and theyve been told about it.

Loling a whole bunch again.

[Fred Allen Burge]

The 350z is right now the "new 240sx", there are a million out there and you can get one for 10k. You'd have to spend at least 10k to get a 240sx to perform like a Z33.



True, get with this program.

[raz0rbladez909]

True, get with this program.

Don't inform them, then the z's will get turned into giant piles of shit moreso than is already happening at a shitty rate :(

[Matej]

Who cares how the Z drives if I cannot see where I am going through the claustrophobic prison-sized windows.
Not only that, but I find the Z33 and Z34 to be quite repulsive in the looks department. Here is to hoping this will be a better decade for automotive styling, as the 00's brought about a terrible slump in my opinion. Although my hopes are not high.

[RiversideS13]

i disagree with the new ft-86 is new 240sx because i think most of drifter wanna be out there cannot afford one. i agree 350z is more similar in the category as a used one and parts are relatively affordable.

[CleanAndLegit]

we shall see i suppose, id go for the brz fuck the frs

[fyneyoungstunna]

lets not get Z and S mixed up. I know they are similar looking letters, but it ends THERE.

[Corbic]

Who cares how the Z drives if I cannot see where I am going through the claustrophobic prison-sized windows.
Not only that, but I find the Z33 and Z34 to be quite repulsive in the looks department. Here is to hoping this will be a better decade for automotive styling, as the 00's brought about a terrible slump in my opinion. Although my hopes are not high.

Welcome to modern car safety. I doubt the BRZ is much better. Ever driven a TT?

The least safest car sold today is safer than the best of the best from 15 years ago. A 2012 Kia Rio will protect you better than a 1998 BMW 740il.

The reason modern cars have gun slit windows is to offer more side protection and an improvement in chassis structure.

Get used to the idea, its not going away anytime soon.

[Corbic]

lets not get Z and S mixed up. I know they are similar looking letters, but it ends THERE.

You have not spent much time around both, have you.

The Z, Skyline and Silvia have always shared a lot in common.

[fliprayzin240sx]

You have not spent much time around both, have you.

The Z, Skyline and Silvia have always shared a lot in common.

And everything else RWD that the US is not good enough to get...ie Cefiros, Laurels, Glorias, etc...

[fyneyoungstunna]

pretty sure the Z is the 300Z's successor

My reply was in response to that mainly.
But, yeah they may share some small mechanical parts, but so to a ton of other car brands. But again, THAT is were it ends. A 240 will never be what a Z....(32) is!

[word sux]

I really want to see some derpa derp get a brz brand new then come and stuff it into a wall at an event this year and try to report it to their insurance

[stylo1]

wow.. Another v8 high hp drift machine based on an anemic factory car..

What's next, a v8 powered rwd fiat 500?

i agree 100%!!!!!!!!!!!!

[One_love_silvia]

Who cares how the Z drives if I cannot see where I am going through the claustrophobic prison-sized windows.
Not only that, but I find the Z33 and Z34 to be quite repulsive in the looks department. Here is to hoping this will be a better decade for automotive styling, as the 00's brought about a terrible slump in my opinion. Although my hopes are not high.

lol this so much. the blind spots in z33s are literally blind spots. u can almost not even see out of them.

[1 88 U]

S13, s14, s15, BRZ, FRS= pretty, light weight, 4 seater, rwd coupes. How the hell is a fugly Z in this conversation?

[Corbic]

S13, s14, s15, BRZ, FRS= pretty, light weight, 4 seater, rwd coupes. How the hell is a fugly Z in this conversation?

FRZ looks like a mini 350, so not sure where the "fugly" is coming from.

As for the relevance, you need to keep up with the class.

[1 88 U]

Wtf does that mean? The 350z is a very respectable sports car but it is in no way the new s chassis. The s chassis aside from being cheap years later, weighs under 2,700lbs, has two back seats, rwd. In othe words every thing the new frz is/gonna be. The Zed is the new zed.

[simmode1]

Wtf does that mean?
They mean that from a functional standpoint, early 350Z's and G35 coupes are pretty much interchangeable with the Silvias from a performance and price-after-mods standpont.

However, I think it's worth it to point out that the 350Z and G35 DO NOT compare to the Z32 TT in those same comparisons, so they are not as much spiritual successors to that car.

[Corbic]

However, I think it's worth it to point out that the 350Z and G35 DO NOT compare to the Z32 TT in those same comparisons, so they are not as much spiritual successors to that car.

Correct. The 350Z is a retro-inspired car. It combines styling cues from the 240Z and 300ZX while returning to the Z-cars original principles.

A stylish, inexpensive sports car with a balance of agility and power.

With the introduction of "ZX", Z cars had become ever increasingly more expensive and more complicated.

In 1998, a 300ZX TT was $45,000 ($59,890 today). In Japan a TT was 4,190,000 yen base (4.9m maxed out). A non-turbo was ~$30k US and 3.1 mil in Japan.


In 2002 a S15 Silvia turbo was 2,390,000 yen, conversion was ~105:1 then, so $22,271 (in Japan). ($35,989 with inflation at today's exchange rate)

2002 Fairlady Z33 base was 3,000,000 yen. ($28,571, very close to US MSRP in 2003).

The Z33 offered the stock performance of the TT at a price below the cost of an N/A car. It also was only slightly more expensive the a base Turbo Silvia. With the crash of the performance car market in Japan, there was no room for both.

[simmode1]

With the crash of the performance car market in Japan, there was no room for both.
Hit the nail on the head. I think this remain true today. It would be unwise for Nissan to release a new spiritual successor to what we know as the Silvia while the Z is still doing so well in the market. And as long as the Z continues to do well, I see no need for the Silvia to return.

But where does Nissan take the Z from here? The 370Z is frikken brilliant, IMO. It's looks are debatable. But from an engineering/performance standpoint, I don't know where Nissan can go with the Z except put in a V8 or add turbos. But both those options would either contradict the spirit of the Z or step on the GTR's toes. I think, after a long and illustrious run, the Z should be put out to pasture with this current generation to make room for a new Silvia.

[g00se]

Pushrods, Apple Pie, and Brunettes.

What else do ya need in life.

Ok, maybe Monster Trucks.

and beer... maybe oxy

[Piggy]

but where does nissan take the z from here? The 370z is frikken brilliant, imo. It's looks are debatable. But from an engineering/performance standpoint, i don't know where nissan can go with the z except put in a v8 or add turbos. But both those options would either contradict the spirit of the z or step on the gtr's toes. I think, after a long and illustrious run, the z should be put out to pasture with this current generation to make room for a new silvia.

qft.........

[Corbic]

But where does Nissan take the Z from here? The 370Z is frikken brilliant, IMO. It's looks are debatable. But from an engineering/performance standpoint, I don't know where Nissan can go with the Z except put in a V8 or add turbos. But both those options would either contradict the spirit of the Z or step on the GTR's toes. I think, after a long and illustrious run, the Z should be put out to pasture with this current generation to make room for a new Silvia.

This is an interesting question.

Currently I think the 370Z is struggling. Its styling is not as, well kept, as the 350Z and horse power freaks are being drawn to the 1M, 135is, Camaro SS and Mustang GT.

What the 370Z does do well is offer Porsche Cayman styling and performance for $20,000 less. Sure, you give up quite a bit on "drivers feel" and material quality, but the numbers are there.

motivemagazine.com - Motive Versus: Nissan 370Z vs. Porsche Cayman S (http://www.motivemag.com/pub/feature/versus/Motive_Versus_Nissan_370Z_vs_Porsche_Cayman_S.shtm l)

I think Nissan will struggle if they stay in the 33-43k market. It is crowded with fierce performance and luxury competition.

Offering Turbos or a V8 will let them slide into the 50k range, if they can compete performance wise with the Corvette, S4, M3, Boss Mustang and 911 they will be gold.

This still offers a lot of room under the $90,000 GTR. This plan would then also pave the way for a "Silvia" in the $20s.

Another option is to bring down the cost. Get the Z back under 30k or offer two trims levels. Get the weight to around 3,000lbs and put a small ~250hp V6 and then offer a FI or larger 350-400hp motor. One car is $28,000, the other $35,000. Best of both worlds.

I don't think the 240sx/Silvia name has enough cache in either the US or Japan to replace the Z as Nissans front runner. The Z is stronger than both the GT-R and Sivlia/SX.

[ronmcdon]

there's no reason why the Z can't two (if not more) trim levels. Ford, Hyundai, and Chevy have done this. I just think it's going to be tough to stay competitive without any major changes. Im sure a lot of buyers would consider the Z if it cost less and got more in terms of fuel economy. a turbo 4 trim to compete with the v6 mustang and turbo GC should be promising.

[Corbic]

there's no reason why the Z can't two (if not more) trim levels. Ford, Hyundai, and Chevy have done this. I just think it's going to be tough to stay competitive without any major changes. Im sure a lot of buyers would consider the Z if it cost less and got more in terms of fuel economy. a turbo 4 trim to compete with the v6 mustang and turbo GC should be promising.

It is also not unprecedented either. The original S30 did offer a 2.0 4-banger in Japan.

[sw20>>s14]

But where does Nissan take the Z from here? The 370Z is frikken brilliant, IMO. It's looks are debatable. But from an engineering/performance standpoint, I don't know where Nissan can go with the Z.....

solving the current transmission, oil cooling, and gas starvation issues could be a start :keke:

[Corbic]

solving the current transmission, oil cooling, and gas starvation issues could be a start :keke:

Ah, more internet boogie-men. Watch out, your 4G is going to crank walk too!

[rb25crazy]

There will be no s16 or silvia anytime soon. Nissan or rather I dare say Carlos Ghosn is investing heavily into the Nissan Leaf and it's electric infrastructure. He's basically investing the majority of the funds he has to be the first clean car of the world that is affordable to the masses and practical as a sedan. He's banking his role as CEO on the line with the success of this vehicle, if it's not you can say good bye to him and a Nissan company that went thru all there funds. Also, if we do see a s16 it would probably be a light weight electric vehicle.

With that being said, he doesn't really have the resources to invest in a niche market with broke buyers like us anyway.

[fliprayzin240sx]

My beef with Nissan is, why the fuck would you make an Altima Coupe?!?! Why couldnt you push a Silvia-esque car for that segment? He'll, could have just made it rwd and it would have shut up alot of us calling for another S-chassis. Since I've been back stateside, I've seen alot of these cars running around.

But at the same time, honestly, I dont see Nissan making another S-chassis. I dont see the demand for it...how many broke HS/College kids would buy a new boy racer type car at $25-30k?

[ZenkiKid]

The FRS/BRZ is going to be like how the s2k first got here.


Too expensive when they first came out and nobody bought them because of that.

Became popular after 4-5 years once their prices went down.

[simmode1]

GT86 will be alot cheaper than the S2000 was when new, though.

[Corbic]

GT86 will be alot cheaper than the S2000 was when new, though.

FRZ pricing already announced, $25,000. That's $8,000 less not accounting for inflation.

[ZenkiKid]

For the price I think I would rather get a Genesis 2.0 or a used 350z.

I always thought that the "FRZ" was too bare bones of a car to be worth that much.

[simmode1]

^^^For real. The 86 is probably gonna put, like what? 170hp to the wheels? With no easy turbo upgrade options? Fuck that.

At the same price as the 86, the fatty Genesis has a whole lot going for it, especially the new 2013's. At least Z/G's are getting close to dirt cheap now. Throw some damn nitrous at that VQ and call it a day.

[Corbic]

For the price I think I would rather get a Genesis 2.0 or a used 350z.

I always thought that the "FRZ" was too bare bones of a car to be worth that much.

Gen coupe is fucking disgusting looking.

It also weights 3,500lbs.

http://www.autoevolution.com/images/news/hyundai-drops-more-2013-genesis-coupe-photos-40357_1.jpg

[Corbic]

GT86 will be alot cheaper than the S2000 was when new, though.

FRZ is $25,000, S2K was about $32,000 12 years ago and I believe around $35,000 when it left. The FRZ will be 200lbs lighter.


Also, if you want, a EG20 will swap in place of the F-whatever motor. There is your "$2,000 turbo kit".

[Corbic]

My beef with Nissan is, why the fuck would you make an Altima Coupe?!?! Why couldnt you push a Silvia-esque car for that segment? He'll, could have just made it rwd and it would have shut up alot of us calling for another S-chassis. Since I've been back stateside, I've seen alot of these cars running around.


Because girls buy them. The Altima coupe fills the Accord Coupe, Eclipse, Solara, Monte Carlo, G6, Mustang V6, Camaro V6 and Scion TC roll.

Its stylish, peppy and in the low $20,000s. These people don't want a rip-roaring performance car, and costs are kept low by sharing 90% of the parts with sibling sedans.

[rb25crazy]

you guys can wish all you want, but your votes (money spent) does all the real talking. Go buy sports cars and show that this segment is alive, and you best believe these companies will make what you want.

[fliprayzin240sx]

Because girls buy them. The Altima coupe fills the Accord Coupe, Eclipse, Solara, Monte Carlo, G6, Mustang V6, Camaro V6 and Scion TC roll.

Its stylish, peppy and in the low $20,000s. These people don't want a rip-roaring performance car, and costs are kept low by sharing 90% of the parts with sibling sedans.

Who the fuck do you think S14s were marketed towards?!?! Yep, USDM S-chassis were soooooo fucking sporty (sarcasm). You do realize that it was marketed towards older secretary/nurse/courgar types right? I had a Mary Kay's Sticker outline that would pop on my rear window on cold mornings.

PS: Altima coupes are not low $20s, try $25k for the 2.5 S to as much as $39k for the 3.5 SR models with all the trimmings.

Also, Subaru styling of the FT86 > Toyota's cookie cutter styling.

[raz0rbladez909]

FRZ is $25,000, S2K was about $32,000 12 years ago and I believe around $35,000 when it left. The FRZ will be 200lbs lighter.


Also, if you want, a EG20 will swap in place of the F-whatever motor. There is your "$2,000 turbo kit".
Truth.

I really don't see a whole lot of reasons to complain about the FRZ pricing honestly, it's everything everyone had been asking for. It's not a straight line performer by any means just like the s2k isn't, where it will shine is at the race track and I'm sure it will impress many for its relatively low starting price. There is also a LOT of hype behind the car so I can only imagine what the aftermarket will do for it, but it will take time, I know ten years ago people wouldn't dare think you could make 500+ hp on a stock block f20/22 but it's being done nowadays, with the technology being there already I honestly doubt it will be long before someone slaps some sort of forced induction on the FRZ and makes the thing fly like a bat out of hell, but nobody could seriously be expecting it to come out as a high horsepower beast. Look how successful the Miata/mx5 is, and it definitely isn't for it's power, there is obviously buyers already lining up to buy the damn thing without even sitting in it.

[word sux]

Truth.

I really don't see a whole lot of reasons to complain about the FRZ pricing honestly, it's everything everyone had been asking for. It's not a straight line performer by any means just like the s2k isn't, where it will shine is at the race track and I'm sure it will impress many for its relatively low starting price. There is also a LOT of hype behind the car so I can only imagine what the aftermarket will do for it, but it will take time, I know ten years ago people wouldn't dare think you could make 500+ hp on a stock block f20/22 but it's being done nowadays, with the technology being there already I honestly doubt it will be long before someone slaps some sort of forced induction on the FRZ and makes the thing fly like a bat out of hell, but nobody could seriously be expecting it to come out as a high horsepower beast. Look how successful the Miata/mx5 is, and it definitely isn't for it's power, there is obviously buyers already lining up to buy the damn thing without even sitting in it.



Hks, greddy, and cosworth already have parts developed for it. Look at ken gushi's 600hp greddy/ cosworth built car, those two companies have obviously already developed or are in the process of developing a full range of parts including turbo kits and internals. Now obviously once the car is actually out we will start to see many other companies that didn't get pre production cars to work with come out with their own line of parts. And sure enough in a few year we will start seeing a whole line of knockoff parts.

[exitspeed]

Wish i had more time to jump in this conversation. Some great stuff being debated here.

[Fred Allen Burge]

Maybe Nissan will bring their new Datsun brand here with an entry level RWD coupe model to compete with the BRZ.

[1 88 U]

FRZ is $25,000, S2K was about $32,000 12 years ago and I believe around $35,000 when it left. The FRZ will be 200lbs lighter.


Also, if you want, a EG20 will swap in place of the F-whatever motor. There is your "$2,000 turbo kit".

You beat me to the punch about the S2K price but the EG series won't mount up to the FRZ bell house. DrooP and Greddy had to cut the tunnel to fit a custom hollinger. Best bet is to see what HKS can do with the stock motor. My guess is expensive internal work to bring down the CR for boost. My fear is there is no way to make numbers over 210rwhp without big dough.

[Corbic]

. My fear is there is no way to make numbers over 210rwhp without big dough.

Seriously, fuck Greddy, HKS, Toemi and Apexi. What the fuck have any of them really done in the last 15 years?

I have little doubt JE and Weisco will have pistons by X-mass for $400 a set.

[fliprayzin240sx]

Anybody know if these things got fly by wire throttles?

[Corbic]

Anybody know if these things got fly by wire throttles?

Throttle by Wire
Electric Steering

[raz0rbladez909]

Seriously, fuck Greddy, HKS, Toemi and Apexi. What the fuck have any of them really done in the last 15 years?

I have little doubt JE and Weisco will have pistons by X-mass for $400 a set.

I seriously think Apexi will be going under soon, if they haven't already, because they haven't produced anything worthwhile in quite some time. But HKS, Tomei, and Greddy have all produced great products in their history and relatively recent years as well. HKS is known for having one of the fastest Evo's out there, and also made one of the first forced induction kits for the 350z. HKS's prices have also seemed to go down since the past also. Greddy is one of the few companies that pursues Carb legality with MOST of their FI products, not to mention have made quite a big statement with their 1200hp GT-R and the GT-R aftermarket. They are also highly involved in many of the automotive communities and have thrown bbq's in the past to get to better know their customer base as well as find out what their customers want. Tomei's TI exhausts are very affordable compared to most other TI brands, not to mention they produce alot of newer parts as well

Anybody know if these things got fly by wire throttles?

I think drive by wire has become a standard item when it comes to newer cars nowadays, I can't recall the last car that I saw with a throttle cable new from the dealership.

[Corbic]

Who the fuck do you think S14s were marketed towards?!?! Yep, USDM S-chassis were soooooo fucking sporty (sarcasm). You do realize that it was marketed towards older secretary/nurse/courgar types right?

You do realize the S14 also failed miserably right? Nissan could not even sell 3,000 cars in 1998.

[exitspeed]

Different times gentlemen. Different times.

[1 88 U]

2013 BRZ is all sold out for the year.

[VROOOM]

You do realize the S14 also failed miserably right? Nissan could not even sell 3,000 cars in 1998.

I remember seeing brand new 1998 S14's on dealer lots well into 1999 and probably later than that.

[Corbic]

2013 BRZ is all sold out for the year.

Lies - source?

[1 88 U]

Lies - source?

If you didn't put down your deposit last month when pre-orders started you are assed out. I was waiting untill the price was anounced today to put my order in but every last dealership I've called from NC to Alabama says the same damn thing. Sold Out until next year.


Subaru BRZ Japanese Sales Shatter Companies Estimates | AutoGuide.com News (http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2012/03/subaru-brz-japanese-sales-shatter-companies-estimates.html)

Early Subaru BRZ sales running at 4x projections in Japan (http://www.autoblog.com/2012/03/28/early-subaru-brz-sales-running-at-4x-projections-in-japan/)

[DallasTXjdm]

:naughtyd: and Nissan's response is ...

[fliprayzin240sx]

You do realize the S14 also failed miserably right? Nissan could not even sell 3,000 cars in 1998.

No shit Sherlock. You do realize they were almost $28k starting and nobody were buying sport cars around that time? Hence the reason every single high performance japanese niche cars were pulled out of the market starting 1995. Again, another reason why the damn cars were marketed towards cougars, only ones dumb enough to buy these cars back then.

[1 88 U]

http://www.fhi.co.jp/english/contents/pdf_en_78906.pdf

Tokyo, March 28, 2012 – Fuji Heavy Industries Ltd. (FHI), the manufacturer of Subaru automobiles, announced that cumulative sales of the new Subaru BRZ reached 3,551 units two months its introduction in Japan. This result, achieved between February 3rd and March 27th, is approximately quadruple the initial sales forecast*1 of 900 units for the period. The details are as follows.
*1 The monthly sales target for Subaru BRZ is 450 units.

1. Percentage of grade*2
*2 S: Highest grade with ample equipment for driving and comfort R: Standard model well-balancing comfort and fuel efficiency RA: Base model for user customization

S
78.4%
R
18.5%
RA
3.1%

2. Percentage of transmission
6MT
66.3%
E-6AT
33.7%

3. Percentage of exterior color
WR blue mica
33.9%
Dark gray metallic
6.3%
Satin white pearl
24.4%
Lighting red
6.1%
Galaxy blue silica
4.4%
Crystal black silica
16.5%
Sterling silver metallic
8.4%

4. Percentage of customer’s age
Under 29 27.5%
30-39
27.9%
40-49
23.3%
50-59
13.8%
60+
7.5%



Customers positive feedbacks are: fun to drive sports car, stable and reliable handling due to its ultra-low center of gravity packaging, excellent driveability that drivers can feel the improvement of their driving skills, and etc. The Subaru BRZ is highly acclaimed by wide range of customers as a fun sports car that any driver can enjoy driving with peace of mind.

http://wot.motortrend.com/hot-coupe-subaru-brz-japanese-sales-u-s-pre-orders-exceed-expectations-184309.html

On our shores, the Subaru BRZ won’t go on sale until the end of April. However, Subaru spokesman Michael McHale says the company has already received much stronger response from customers than originally expected. There are over 1000 pre-orders for the 2013 BRZ — even though Subaru has yet to announce pricing for the car, or let members of the general public test-drive it.
McHale said that a wealth of positive reviews of the Subaru BRZ in the media has encouraged many enthusiasts to get in line for the newsportscoupe. Subaru will sell only about 500 copies of the BRZ here each month, or around 6000 cars per year.

This car is a hit and Nissan missed the boat.

After seeing the new Altima I have lost all faith in Nissan's styling choices.

[Corbic]

No shit Sherlock. You do realize they were almost $28k starting and nobody were buying sport cars around that time? Hence the reason every single high performance japanese niche cars were pulled out of the market starting 1995. Again, another reason why the damn cars were marketed towards cougars, only ones dumb enough to buy these cars back then.

:picardfp:

I thought you just said it was a car for college girls and secretaries?

Base price was also $18,359 back then. MSRP on an Eclipse GS was around $17,xxx.

I'm not sure what you are bent out of shape about. You're made Nissan wasted its time making a Altima coupe instead of a S16 - it's simple, college girls don't want RWD sports cars, they want cute coupes.

Mini Cooper, tC, Beetle, Eclipse, Altima Coupe, Accord Coupe ect.

[Corbic]

If you didn't put down your deposit last month when pre-orders started you are assed out. I was waiting untill the price was anounced today to put my order in but every last dealership I've called from NC to Alabama says the same damn thing. Sold Out until next year.


Subaru BRZ Japanese Sales Shatter Companies Estimates | AutoGuide.com News (http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2012/03/subaru-brz-japanese-sales-shatter-companies-estimates.html)

Early Subaru BRZ sales running at 4x projections in Japan (http://www.autoblog.com/2012/03/28/early-subaru-brz-sales-running-at-4x-projections-in-japan/)

Wow, more reason not to like the BRZ. God does Subaru have a PR machine. Just buy a FRS. Those articles are also Japan. I'm sure someone is lying to you.

[atom]

Friend and I went down to dealership last weekend to check out the BRZ and it is pretty much sold out everywhere. No ETA for new orders either. They totally underestimated demand.

I mean, I'm sure if you looked hard enough you could find one somewhere, but if I'm buying a new car I want it EXACTLY the way I want it. I'm not in that big of a rush.

[ronmcdon]

yeah I would wait anyways, but Im glad they're doing well for now.
who knows what additional trims might be offered in the next few years.
might seriously look to finance this once my existing cars paid off.

[Corbic]

Friend and I went down to dealership last weekend to check out the BRZ and it is pretty much sold out everywhere. No ETA for new orders either. They totally underestimated demand.

I mean, I'm sure if you looked hard enough you could find one somewhere, but if I'm buying a new car I want it EXACTLY the way I want it. I'm not in that big of a rush.

Did you go to the Scion dealership? :cj:

[ManoNegra]

If you didn't put down your deposit last month when pre-orders started you are assed out. I was waiting untill the price was anounced today to put my order in but every last dealership I've called from NC to Alabama says the same damn thing. Sold Out until next year.


Subaru BRZ Japanese Sales Shatter Companies Estimates | AutoGuide.com News (http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2012/03/subaru-brz-japanese-sales-shatter-companies-estimates.html)

Early Subaru BRZ sales running at 4x projections in Japan (http://www.autoblog.com/2012/03/28/early-subaru-brz-sales-running-at-4x-projections-in-japan/)

Friend and I went down to dealership last weekend to check out the BRZ and it is pretty much sold out everywhere. No ETA for new orders either. They totally underestimated demand.

I mean, I'm sure if you looked hard enough you could find one somewhere, but if I'm buying a new car I want it EXACTLY the way I want it. I'm not in that big of a rush.

You are correct sir
friend was one of the first people in Socal to put down a deposit for one
and has been obsessed with the damn thing to the point that he is driving all of us nuts

[SoBay240guy]

I didn't drive you nut you were already nuts

The CR shalln't need to be lowered for moderate boost, the DI does a magnificent job of combustion chamber cooling and raises the detonation threshold considerably

I have every confidence the car has some power on the table still 12.5:1 CR 2.0L with direct injection in 2012...unless the cams have no lift and duration the car has potential without turning screws...I'll know soon enough

for the rest of you try not to hate just cuz you missed the first boat, i'm sure you can still buy a FR-s and hang out in the shallow end of the pool...

[raz0rbladez909]

for the rest of you try not to hate just cuz you missed the first boat, i'm sure you can still buy a FR-s and hang out in the shallow end of the pool...

Lol an elitist that doesn't even own the car yet? Now thats funny.

[SoBay240guy]

taking the bait like a boss....

[1 88 U]

Ken Gushi Formula Drift Streets of Long Beach 2012

KEN GUSHI During Round 1 Qualifying 1st run
Justin.tv - driftstream - KEN GUSHI During Formula Drift 2012 Round 1 Qualifying @ Long Beach California (1st run) (http://www.justin.tv/driftstream/b/314265429)

JEREMY LOWE vs KEN GUSHI During Top 32
Justin.tv - driftstream - JEREMY LOWE vs KEN GUSHI During Top 32 2012 Formula Drift Round 1 @ Long Beach California (http://www.justin.tv/driftstream/b/314276378)

KEN GUSHI vs AURIMAS BAKCHIS During Top 16
Justin.tv - driftstream - KEN GUSHI vs AURIMAS BAKCHIS During Top 16 2012 Formula Drift Round 1 @ Long Beach California (http://www.justin.tv/driftstream/b/314282785)

DAIJIRO YOSHIHARA vs KEN GUSHI During Great 8
part 1 Justin.tv - driftstream - DAIJIRO YOSHIHARA vs KEN GUSHI During Battle of The Great 8 2012 Formula Drift Round 1 @ Long Beach California (part 1) CRASH (http://www.justin.tv/driftstream/b/314283876)
part 2 Justin.tv - driftstream - DAIJIRO YOSHIHARA vs KEN GUSHI During Battle of The Great 8 2012 Formula Drift Round 1 @ Long Beach California (part 2) (http://www.justin.tv/driftstream/b/314283918)

[word sux]

Ken Gushi Formula Drift Streets of Long Beach 2012

KEN GUSHI During Round 1 Qualifying 1st run
Justin.tv - driftstream - KEN GUSHI During Formula Drift 2012 Round 1 Qualifying @ Long Beach California (1st run) (http://www.justin.tv/driftstream/b/314265429)

JEREMY LOWE vs KEN GUSHI During Top 32
Justin.tv - driftstream - JEREMY LOWE vs KEN GUSHI During Top 32 2012 Formula Drift Round 1 @ Long Beach California (http://www.justin.tv/driftstream/b/314276378)

KEN GUSHI vs AURIMAS BAKCHIS During Top 16
Justin.tv - driftstream - KEN GUSHI vs AURIMAS BAKCHIS During Top 16 2012 Formula Drift Round 1 @ Long Beach California (http://www.justin.tv/driftstream/b/314282785)

DAIJIRO YOSHIHARA vs KEN GUSHI During Great 8
part 1 Justin.tv - driftstream - DAIJIRO YOSHIHARA vs KEN GUSHI During Battle of The Great 8 2012 Formula Drift Round 1 @ Long Beach California (part 1) CRASH (http://www.justin.tv/driftstream/b/314283876)
part 2 Justin.tv - driftstream - DAIJIRO YOSHIHARA vs KEN GUSHI During Battle of The Great 8 2012 Formula Drift Round 1 @ Long Beach California (part 2) (http://www.justin.tv/driftstream/b/314283918)



yea it did pretty well yesterday for its first comp.


I went to both the subaru and scion dealer yesterday and both said they will only get 3 cars, subaru already had 10 preorders and scion had 6..

[mmdb]

You are correct sir
friend was one of the first people in Socal to put down a deposit for one
and has been obsessed with the damn thing to the point that he is driving all of us nuts

I saw in a brz and frs around the local stealerships. The problem wasn't finding one for sale, it's the "market markup" that's added to the car, or additional goodies. For example a BRZ I saw at Costa Mesa Subaru had a 3k or maybe 4k markup. The salesman wanted to sell it to me then and there.

[usdm180sx]

I saw the BR-Z markup. $5000 over sticker. I'll wait.

[drift freaq]

It is also not unprecedented either. The original S30 did offer a 2.0 4-banger in Japan.

Weill most of what you posted in this thread has been spot on. This needs correcting. Seeing as the Original S30 was my first sports car and I owned a few. LOL .

The S30 was offered with a L18 SSS engine not a 2 liter 4.

It was also sold in the special for racing package Fairlady 432 of which 500 were built. Which came with a S20 engine which was a 2 liter dual overhead cam 6 with triple Solex carbs. 5 speed transmission and clutch pack limited slip rear end. G Nose front, with ducktail spoiler rear and overfenders (which would get the Jun style name slapped on them later when Jun made them for 240sx's)

As far as the 350Z falling into the new 240sx catagory you are spot on. To many current 240sx owners fail to realize that the 240sx was only popular in its first two years of existence.

It did not become a popular platform till after it was out of production. Hence why the 350z fits the bill so well.
The kind of people who went to the 240sx for autocross,drifting etc.. are not going to buy a new car.
They are going to look for an affordable used car that has potential platform wise.
Hence the 350z fits quite well. It can be tuned to handle quite well and yes it does like going sideways.

As far as the BRZ/FRS goes the jury is still out. Its still a little early in the game.
Though I will say that Nissan is watching this whole thing closely. Their decision will definitely be affected by BRZ/FRS sales figures.

I suspect from talk I have heard the first order of the day is to put the next iteration of the Z on even more of a diet. I can see a downsized Z coming out 2013-2014.

[fyneyoungstunna]

got to ride in a brz yesterday. pearlish white.
was nice to ride in. I think the driver was a lil timid about it though. I would have went balls to the wall...but thats just me.
The thing that caught MY attention though was the engine compartment. My GOD does this thing look strait-forward and easy to work on. I could touch the top transmission bolts! I mean full on touch with no interference. I guess this is a big deal to me because I own a z32 and well let say you should keep a "little person" on the payroll if your gonna own one (lol). Id still buy the genesis coup over this though.

[simmode1]

^^^Ditto on the Genesis coupe...

I suspect from talk I have heard the first order of the day is to put the next iteration of the Z on even more of a diet. I can see a downsized Z coming out 2013-2014.
The Z's price has been steadily ballooning. Weren't Z33 base models like around $26k when they first came out? Now base Z's are around $33k and the next gen is likely to continue that pricing increase trend. No longer can the Z be considered an entry level sports car. Rather than reviving the Silvia name, it would at least be nice if they offered the next Z with a 2.0T option for a base model while the range toppers continue with the current V6 tradition.

[word sux]

I think that the v6 will being going to the chopping block in favor of a turbo 4 cylinder for the next gen z. na high performance 6 cylinders have gone the way of the dodo.

[Corbic]

I think that the v6 will being going to the chopping block in favor of a turbo 4 cylinder for the next gen z. na high performance 6 cylinders have gone the way of the dodo.


Yeah... that is is why they are making more power than V8s from just 5 years ago while Turbo-4s are making the same power they did nearly 20 years ago..

[drift freaq]

^^^Ditto on the Genesis coupe...


The Z's price has been steadily ballooning. Weren't Z33 base models like around $26k when they first came out? Now base Z's are around $33k and the next gen is likely to continue that pricing increase trend. No longer can the Z be considered an entry level sports car. Rather than reviving the Silvia name, it would at least be nice if they offered the next Z with a 2.0T option for a base model while the range toppers continue with the current V6 tradition.

Well I do not think Nissan would offer a 4 cylinder turbo Z in the U.S. I could see that possibility in Japan given the Fairlady's history. Though in the U.S. the Z has always been a 6 cylinder sports car. I could see them doing a VQ25HR Z. As for pricing you are off a little Base price is 31k not 33k. I just checked it.
Now for you to speculate they would keep on increasing the pricing trend is purely speculative. I would hazard to say it will quite possibly be a reversal. Reason being will the 370 is great from an engineering and handling perspective it has not sold nearly as well as the 350. Do not think Nissan does not take note of these things.
Also the BRZ is starting at like 26k . So they really could steal some thunder by downsizing a bit and dropping the price a bit.
Who knows this is all theorizing. lol










Yeah... that is is why they are making more power than V8s from just 5 years ago while Turbo-4s are making the same power they did nearly 20 years ago..

Ya I would agree with you here. NA V6's are getting monstrous numbers. People sometimes don't stop to think about it. a VQ37 puts out 337 HP. A LS1 puts out 350 HP . Back in the day V6's turned out around 150-200 HP unless turbo'd. Even Ford has a V6 pushing 300HP. Those are V8 numbers.

There is no way Nissan is doing away with V6's they get great results out of them and they use them all over the product line. I would hazard to say the VQ series engines are the most used engine in Nissan engine product line up.

On the scaled down Z front they could easily do a 250Z with a VQ25HR.

[Corbic]

Ya I would agree with you here. NA V6's are getting monstrous numbers. People sometimes don't stop to think about it. a VQ37 puts out 337 HP. A LS1 puts out 350 HP . Back in the day V6's turned out around 150-200 HP unless turbo'd. Even Ford has a V6 pushing 300HP. Those are V8 numbers.

There is no way Nissan is doing away with V6's they get great results out of them and they use them all over the product line. I would hazard to say the VQ series engines are the most used engine in Nissan engine product line up.

On the scaled down Z front they could easily do a 250Z with a VQ25HR.

The price is more or less inflation based. A 350Z was around 28k new, but then again a WRX was 22k, and a Mustang GT was 25k. Fast forward five years and they all shifted up about $5,000. Weak dollar, ailing economy and strong yen makes for expensive imports.

While the BRZ may be fun, lets not forget it's still a solid notch down below the 370Z, just like the 370Z is still a rung below a 'Vette.

Lets also not forget about the other V8s out there - the old SOHC 4.6 was 225-260hp depending on the year, when the Z came out with 287hp that was :eek3:

Most V6s today are +300hp anymore, V8's are in the 400's and Turbo-4's are still 200-300hp, not much more then they where at the start of the 90's.

Weight, simplicity and packaging also benefits the V6 engines as well. Sure it sucks that you can't just turn up the boost or swap turbos, but few consumers do that anyways.

Honestly, the Z needs to worry about moving up market, not down market. A Twin-Turbo version in the 40's that can compete with the 'Vette in performance and Caymen in quality is what we really need.

The FBRZS is just a Miata with better styling and marketing. It's not exactly novel.

[word sux]

Yeah... that is is why they are making more power than V8s from just 5 years ago while Turbo-4s are making the same power they did nearly 20 years ago..



Did I say anything about power? No, they have gone the way of the dodo because of emissions and gas milage. With obd3 on the horizon and the emissions standards it will bring for new cars I highly doubt the the next z will be an n/a v6. If anything maybe a smaller displacement turbo vq could be coming down the line.

It's true that the new forced induction 4's are not putting out that much more power then what they used to but the response and torque curve that they can achieve now is pretty incredible.I don't think stuffing a 4 cylinder in a z and trying to make it compete with the brz or other sub 30k sports cars is the answer here. For the next Z they should develop a chassis that can be used for multiple platforms like volkswagen is doing so that they can build multiple cars on one platform without all the extra r and d cost.

[VROOOM]

Well I do not think Nissan would offer a 4 cylinder turbo Z in the U.S. I could see that possibility in Japan given the Fairlady's history. Though in the U.S. the Z has always been a 6 cylinder sports car. I could see them doing a VQ25HR Z. As for pricing you are off a little Base price is 31k not 33k. I just checked it.
Now for you to speculate they would keep on increasing the pricing trend is purely speculative. I would hazard to say it will quite possibly be a reversal. Reason being will the 370 is great from an engineering and handling perspective it has not sold nearly as well as the 350. Do not think Nissan does not take note of these things.
Also the BRZ is starting at like 26k . So they really could steal some thunder by downsizing a bit and dropping the price a bit.
Who knows this is all theorizing. lol












Ya I would agree with you here. NA V6's are getting monstrous numbers. People sometimes don't stop to think about it. a VQ37 puts out 337 HP. A LS1 puts out 350 HP . Back in the day V6's turned out around 150-200 HP unless turbo'd. Even Ford has a V6 pushing 300HP. Those are V8 numbers.

There is no way Nissan is doing away with V6's they get great results out of them and they use them all over the product line. I would hazard to say the VQ series engines are the most used engine in Nissan engine product line up.

On the scaled down Z front they could easily do a 250Z with a VQ25HR.

first the 370z is $32,280 plus $780 destination, which is a little over $33k. I have no idea where you "checked" and it said $31k.

also the VQ puts out late 90's V8 power, but now everyone makes V8's with 400+hp, not 300hp.

[Corbic]

also the VQ puts out late 90's V8 power, but now everyone makes V8's with 400+hp, not 300hp.

I think you mean Mid-2000's V8 numbers.
So what? Its still more powerful then the "most powerful" Turbo-4s on the market and the car performs admirably.

A $52,000 Cayman makes 265hp. Where is the outrage?

A BRZ that costs $26,000 is only making 200hp - nearly 100hp less then cars that cost $3,000 less. :rofl:

[Corbic]

Did I say anything about power? No, they have gone the way of the dodo because of emissions and gas milage. With obd3 on the horizon and the emissions standards it will bring for new cars I highly doubt the the next z will be an n/a v6. If anything maybe a smaller displacement turbo vq could be coming down the line.

Uh huh... So Nissan and every other manufacturer is going to kill the V6 engine because the Government will receive a heads up when your car is failing emissions in real time.

Do you even have the slightest clue on the packaging and material costs of incorporating a turbo into a production car? I suspect if anything, Nissan is already developing a VQ-series replacement, something cheaper to build, with more displacement options and a larger utilization of polymer technologies.

The Z does not produce enough sales to warrant its own unique chassis and power-train development. It will continue to hare chassis, engines and parts with Nissan's luxury and car lines.



It's true that the new forced induction 4's are not putting out that much more power then what they used to but the response and torque curve that they can achieve now is pretty incredible.I don't think stuffing a 4 cylinder in a z and trying to make it compete with the brz or other sub 30k sports cars is the answer here. For the next Z they should develop a chassis that can be used for multiple platforms like volkswagen is doing so that they can build multiple cars on one platform without all the extra r and d cost.

OMFG a Responsive Turbo 4?! Beyond aftermarket tuning I still fail to see the benefit. A V6 or V8 is going have practically double the power output with less packaging constraints, less cost and greater reliability and superior driving response.


Where have you been for the last 2012 years? The Z has been riding the same chassis as the G-series since the 350Z came out, it also uses the same damn motor and running gear. Volkswagen is the last person Nissan should be copying. Hell Volkswagen has not had a "sports car" since the early 90's and what a failure the Corrado was.

[Corbic]

Watch out class, this is the future of V6 engine design.

http://image.trucktrend.com/f/17407042+w750+st0/163_news090408_01z+chrysler_pentastar_engine+.jpg

300hp, VVT, E85 and 87 Octane, no PVC system, 260ft ft/tq at 4,500rpm


Yes kids, the exhaust manifolds are integrated into the heads. This is a reduction of cost, parts and weight.
http://www.allpar.com/photos/plants/trenton-engine/granholm.jpg

[future]

Moar pictures of exhuast coming from the heads

[Corbic]

http://www.allpar.com/photos/plants/trenton-engine/wiring-harness.jpg

http://www.jeepfan.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/2012-jeep-wrangler-PentastarV6.jpg

http://image.jpmagazine.com/f/33368900/129_1108_05+2012_jeep_wrangler_jk_pentastar+exhaus t_manifold.JPG.jpg


GM's new DI 3.6 is also the same way.
http://gmauthority.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/3.6L-LFX-V6-582x465.jpg

[nisco]

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTrAFyj8V_FdBSXsAJVKUDUNnLAEu1_d D9KzJvOsCEBgTVGOufZHY8FUn5JrA

[word sux]

Uh huh... So Nissan and every other manufacturer is going to kill the V6 engine because the Government will receive a heads up when your car is failing emissions in real time.

Do you even have the slightest clue on the packaging and material costs of incorporating a turbo into a production car? I suspect if anything, Nissan is already developing a VQ-series replacement, something cheaper to build, with more displacement options and a larger utilization of polymer technologies.

The Z does not produce enough sales to warrant its own unique chassis and power-train development. It will continue to hare chassis, engines and parts with Nissan's luxury and car lines.




OMFG a Responsive Turbo 4?! Beyond aftermarket tuning I still fail to see the benefit. A V6 or V8 is going have practically double the power output with less packaging constraints, less cost and greater reliability and superior driving response.


Where have you been for the last 2012 years? The Z has been riding the same chassis as the G-series since the 350Z came out, it also uses the same damn motor and running gear. Volkswagen is the last person Nissan should be copying. Hell Volkswagen has not had a "sports car" since the early 90's and what a failure the Corrado was.


Are you illiterate? I never said all 6 cylinders, I said most n/a high performance 6 cylinders will be going to the way side. Turbochargers have become much much cheaper then what they used to be when they were reserved only for limited production sports cars. I didn't not say the Z should have its own unique chassis, if you had read what I posted I said they should make a chassis which many cars could be based off of like what volks wagen is doing (this includes porsche) so they can lengthen and widen as well as shorten a narrow it so it may be used in a wide range of cars, hence making a small sports car more feasible. I was not just more or less talking about VAG not just volkswagen, this includes porsche.

[VROOOM]

I think you mean Mid-2000's V8 numbers.
So what? Its still more powerful then the "most powerful" Turbo-4s on the market and the car performs admirably.

A $52,000 Cayman makes 265hp. Where is the outrage?

A BRZ that costs $26,000 is only making 200hp - nearly 100hp less then cars that cost $3,000 less. :rofl:

the LS1 came out in 97. by 2005 the LS1 was out and the 400hp LS2 was in.

i would never buy a Porsche so i dont really care about a Cayman.

just remember our 240's cost almost 26k back in 1998(probably over 30K with in todays market).

[Matej]

Saw a group of BRZ's and FR-S's parked together in front of a restaurant.
In person, both cars look the same.

I thought it funny that the owners are having meets already. :)

[Corbic]

Fuck your marked up BRZ local dealers have FRS on the lot - $25,xxx no bullshit pricing.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v242/Corbic/36c95b17.jpg

[JustSlide]

Didn't alot of people say the same about the Hyundai Genesis? :eek:

:tardrim:

[BarrigaS14]

Watch out class, this is the future of V6 engine design.

http://image.trucktrend.com/f/17407042+w750+st0/163_news090408_01z+chrysler_pentastar_engine+.jpg

300hp, VVT, E85 and 87 Octane, no PVC system, 260ft ft/tq at 4,500rpm


Yes kids, the exhaust manifolds are integrated into the heads. This is a reduction of cost, parts and weight.
http://www.allpar.com/photos/plants/trenton-engine/granholm.jpg

This is old already. BMW already came out with a twin turbo V8 in 2008...

http://image.automobilemag.com/f/10083266+w750+st0/0807_03z+2009_BMW_750i+twin-turbo_v8_engine.jpg

http://subscribers.wardsauto.com/images/2009/01/bmw-v8-4-4l-twin-turbo-engine.jpg

http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/attachments/e39-m5-e52-z8-discussion/60479d1206014826-hpf-m5-twin-turbo-build-pics-v8ttsidehs5.jpg

A 240sx would cost about 26-30k in today's dollars. And remember, that is for the same KA, 140hp, 5spd car some people think is worth 12k stock...today....

Back on topic, the reason I like these cars is because of what I was wanting to do with my 240sx. I wanted to rebuild the engine, supercharge it and get about 200hp...but now, I can get that without the headache with more features. All I need to do is wait until they come on the used market or wait until there are some discounts.

The 240...now might get a V8...

[drift freaq]

While the BRZ may be fun, lets not forget it's still a solid notch down below the 370Z, just like the 370Z is still a rung below a 'Vette.

Lets also not forget about the other V8s out there - the old SOHC 4.6 was 225-260hp depending on the year, when the Z came out with 287hp that was :eek3:

Most V6s today are +300hp anymore, V8's are in the 400's and Turbo-4's are still 200-300hp, not much more then they where at the start of the 90's.

Weight, simplicity and packaging also benefits the V6 engines as well. Sure it sucks that you can't just turn up the boost or swap turbos, but few consumers do that anyways.

Honestly, the Z needs to worry about moving up market, not down market. A Twin-Turbo version in the 40's that can compete with the 'Vette in performance and Caymen in quality is what we really need.

The FBRZS is just a Miata with better styling and marketing. It's not exactly novel.

well just to note since people are mentioning Caymens aka Boxsters with roofs. Nissan actually did not target the Corvette with Z they were actually going after the two Porsches listed above . This is actually was quoted by Nissan officials in press releases when the 350Z was made.

I think people are losing sight in this discussion. Nissan Already has a car that competes with the Vette and the 911 . The GTR.

Honestly I don't think Nissan has ever looked at Z's as Corvette Competitors. They have always positioned them against Porsche's and that goes straight back to the 70's with the 240Z.

I have already stated the fact that in the U.S. the Z is and always will be a six cylinder car. I also do not think given current sales numbers they want to try and push it upstream price wise.

Nissan already has their top end car with the GTR, The Infiniti G series lands inbetween the Z and GTR last thing they would want to do would be move it upstream and have it competing directly with the G series in pricing.
Add to the fact that its already been noted in Automotive publications that Nissan has been thinking and talking about downsizing the Z.

first the 370z is $32,280 plus $780 destination, which is a little over $33k. I have no idea where you "checked" and it said $31k.

also the VQ puts out late 90's V8 power, but now everyone makes V8's with 400+hp, not 300hp.

You obviously fail at car shopping. lol I found it with a quick web search. As far the VQ putting out late 90's V8 power. You see a 335 HP engine as being lacking for a V6? lol

You really like to extrapolate as well. Seriously dude for all intensive purposes a 335HP V6 is in V8 HP territory period. If you study V6's in the 90's they were lucky to get 300HP with Turbo's.

You are really just trying to argue semantics here.

Plus we are getting way off the main topic is the BRZ a 240sx successor.

[usdm180sx]

I don't consider more weight and more power more upmarket. That's like paying more money for more power and weight. Keep it light and simple hence FR-S/BR-Z > 370z. Or Lower weight and higher power to weight ratio > more weight with the same power to weight ratio. If you want prestige buy a high end car.

[DJ-of-E]

Nissan will revive the Silvia if the BRZ/FR-S does well. I can almost guarentee it.

^ Possibly if the economy and market for these kinda cars get better.... hopefully they wont fuck it up like what mazda did with the rx-8

Pretty much sums of my thoughts.

However, I don't not want a 240sx successor. I really do not want a RWD 2.5L N/A from Altima's engine. I want my turbo-4 silvia successor.


I don't consider more weight and more power more upmarket. That's like paying more money for more power and weight. Keep it light and simple hence FR-S/BR-Z > 370z. Or Lower weight and higher power to weight ratio > more weight with the same power to weight ratio. If you want prestige buy a high end car.

I wouldn't dock 370z's weight just yet. It may be 500lbs heavyier, but it handles very well for its weight. The 370z is borderline C and B class. BMW E46 M3 is around 3,500lbs, but it handles stupidly well.

Whether the 370z doesn't seem to be an upgrade to you, to me, any sports car you get under $35000 is considered affordable (I got my 40th for 33k OTD). At least Nissan took the risk and balls to continue making a "sport car" line when Toyota was busy making hybrids.

As much as I can't see myself trading my Z for a BR-Z, I really do hope it does really well because the current trend of car sales for "sporty cars" under the 35k range since 1995 is pretty scarily declining. I also believe this is why there was so much marketing hype back then for Hyundai Genesis and now with the FR-S, especially the tuner scene. To me, I would think a failure on the FRS/BRZ would also mean the end for Nissan's "silvia" and "z" line.

[Corbic]

I don't consider more weight and more power more upmarket. .

Isn't the 370Z the lightest Z in almost 25 years?

Z31s are not exactly light or nimble.

[Corbic]

Whether the 370z doesn't seem to be an upgrade to you, to me, any sports car you get under $35000 is considered affordable (I got my 40th for 33k OTD).


Average car sold in the US is close to $31,000 anymore.

Inflation is a bitch.

Really a Z is only a few grand more then a V6 Camry.

[BustedS13]

the BRZ is sold out? did they make way less BRZ's than FRS's? because the Toyota dealership up the street has quite a few just sitting around.

[ManoNegra]

the BRZ is sold out? did they make way less BRZ's than FRS's? because the Toyota dealership up the street has quite a few just sitting around.

yes, don't quote me but according to a friend they're only making ~6,000 BRZs worldwide this year.
Most if not all have been claimed by pre-orders.

[VROOOM]

You obviously fail at car shopping. lol I found it with a quick web search. As far the VQ putting out late 90's V8 power. You see a 335 HP engine as being lacking for a V6? lol

You really like to extrapolate as well. Seriously dude for all intensive purposes a 335HP V6 is in V8 HP territory period. If you study V6's in the 90's they were lucky to get 300HP with Turbo's.

You are really just trying to argue semantics here.

Plus we are getting way off the main topic is the BRZ a 240sx successor.

the MSRP of the 370z is over $33k, sure you can find cars for cheaper than that but MSRP is a what the price is. i bought a brand new Evo X in 09 for $28,500 does that mean thats how much Evo X's cost? No, i just got a great deal.

the VQ puts out V6 numbers for today. Ford, Chevy, Hyundai, Dodge, Chrysler and Nissan all make 400+hp V8's and they all make 300hp V6's. the VQ is an Average V6.

[K_style]

the VQ puts out V6 numbers for today. Ford, Chevy, Hyundai, Dodge, Chrysler and Nissan all make 400+hp V8's and they all make 300hp V6's. the VQ is an Average V6.

I agree on this..

I do not feel special for VQ much. Sure it is great engine but everybody else has same or better performance in very similar platform.

Too bad mustangs dont come with EcoBoost V6. I'd be more interested than 5.0 V8

[DJ-of-E]

I agree on this..

I do not feel special for VQ much. Sure it is great engine but everybody else has same or better performance in very similar platform.

Too bad mustangs dont come with EcoBoost V6. I'd be more interested than 5.0 V8

I also concur about the VQ as well considering the only benefit you get is a wider powerband with extra 800RPM. With extra $12k, I'd take the Boss Mustang with its V8 hitting 8000RPM range and suspension that put the Nismo 370z to shame.

[Matej]

A 200-250hp RWD 4-cylinder from Nissan would be nice. The lighter/smaller, the better. :)

Are there any such recent inline-4 motors? The only one I know is the F22C.

[fliprayzin240sx]

A 200-250hp RWD 4-cylinder from Nissan would be nice. The lighter/smaller, the better. :)

Are there any such recent inline-4 motors? The only one I know is the F22C.

Juke's MR16DDT turbo engine wouldnt be a bad start...

[DJ-of-E]

Juke's MR16DDT turbo engine wouldnt be a bad start...

I remembered with the S16 rumors using a 1.6L turbo and I thought "hey, that sounded really a nice idea!"

[feito]

jukes look like dog poop imho, dont care how fast theyre making them. Wish i could afford a new car, then i would take these cars into consideration, unfortunately not until another few years..

[BOROSUN]

hmmmm recent inline fours...i can think of two, the c230 kompressor m111 and the miata turbo.

i'm seeing bunch of cheap miata tubro motors on ebay.

i heard the m111 is a good motor but no support over here.

[FRpilot]

i saw a red frs on the highway the other day. it looks pretty nice, but idk if it's 25k nice. i think they should have marketed it around 20-22k.

[initial_jc]

Im thinking about getting a BRZ but the only thing that is holding me back is the size.

I hope it not smaller then an S14

[oscarsx]

Im thinking about getting a BRZ but the only thing that is holding me back is the size.

I hope it not smaller then an S14

yes, its smaller than an s14 interior wise

Sent from my DROID X2

[fullthrottle]

Base v6 mustang + suspension mods = ?

[FRpilot]

Im thinking about getting a BRZ but the only thing that is holding me back is the size.

I hope it not smaller then an S14

if i would have to compare, i would say it looks like a smaller hyundai genesis with the size being like an s13 fastback

[Matej]

On the other hand, I wish they were smaller. :)

[LoneStarSilvia]

http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/3711/t0qp84.png

I'm a big fan of smaller, lighter cars. I'm looking forward to how the generations will progress in terms of styling and performance.

[word sux]

Juke's MR16DDT turbo engine wouldnt be a bad start...


nissan is also running a variation of that motor in that wacky new delta wing le mans car

[Matej]

Ha, the Mustang's body height is ridiculous. The Genesis is also a boat.

[HIGHFIVEBETA]

Saw one in person a few days ago. Alot smaller than i though! I was surprised

[fliprayzin240sx]

I saw both FRS and BRZ models last weekend. First thing I noticed on them were how big the wheel arches are for such a small car. Stock 17" wheels look like 15's on them...

The fender lines looked kinda funny to me, I'm not really a big fan of the lines. Reminds me of the bubbly Tiburon in my head.

[simmode1]

Saw a Genesis coupe the other day. Not sure i'd call it a boat. Looked smaller than a G35 coupe, IMO. Sounded great too with its factory BOV whistling, turbo spooling and tires chirping down the street.

Made me wanna set my S14 on fire.

[MWH_Photo]

Definitely looks smaller in person, I liked it until I looked at the seating inside..

2+2 seater is a joke.. I'm 5'8" and with the driver seat in position there was 1.5" of space from the back of the front seat to the front of the back seat.

Was thinking it would be a nice daily since you have the option of fitting people in the back if need be, but it's not possible unless the driver has the steering wheel at their chest.

I was impressed with the interior though.. all the reviews said it was extremely cheap looking, but I didn't find it half bad. It's more than acceptable for a ~25K car. Seating position is nice too, feels nice and low even though it's only a notch under 4x4 status.

It's something I would buy if I was 18, or if I already had a sedan/hatchback as a DD.. But it'll no way be able to function as a daily for me.

[oscarsx]

toyobaru

Sent from my DROID X2

[240sxcure]

It's as useful and functional as a stock s13 probably quicker to boot.

My only gripe is that the engine isn't as accessible as a sr20det in a s-chassis

[initial_jc]

thank, im 5'11 so im afraid of being uncomfortable in it, but untill i can actually sit in it i wont know if ill get it

[240sxcure]

thank, im 5'11 so im afraid of being uncomfortable in it, but untill i can actually sit in it i wont know if ill get it

I'm 6'2" and I sat in one with more than enough room.

[h2v7]

is it going to be a race to see who is the first to hellaflush these cars?

[Corbic]

the BRZ is sold out? did they make way less BRZ's than FRS's? because the Toyota dealership up the street has quite a few just sitting around.

Subaru USA did not want the car - the dealers had no idea how well it will sell or how to market it, its their first car with no AWD in +15 years. It costs as much as a WRX, has no back seats and no turbo... "who would buy such a thing?!"

Scion/Yota have been crying for this since the demise of the Celica/Supra/MR2/AE86. Closest thing Toyota has had to a real sports car in 10 years is the Tacoma Xrunner.

[Corbic]

This is old already. BMW already came out with a twin turbo V8 in 2008...


I have no idea what you are talking about or it's relievence to the "next/currant" generation V6's.

The GR and VQ series are both rather dated these days and Yota/Nissan need to get with it.

[Corbic]

I agree on this..

I do not feel special for VQ much. Sure it is great engine but everybody else has same or better performance in very similar platform.

Too bad mustangs dont come with EcoBoost V6. I'd be more interested than 5.0 V8

That is because the VQ is antiquated. I mean fuck, the engine dates back to 1994 (VQ20) and the VQ35DE first hit the streets in 2001. Back then it was steller. As I mentioned, V8s where making 250hp (Nissan, Toyota, Ford, Dodge, BMW) and V6s still languished in the sub 200hp range across the industry.

Fast forward 10 years and technology and designs have changed.

[Corbic]

Juke's MR16DDT turbo engine wouldnt be a bad start...

F-That.

188hp and 178 ft/tq, that is like bringing a plastic knife to the nuclear holocaust these days.

Maybe a turbo version of the MR20DD ( 147hp, 155 ft/tq NA).

Nissans have never been about finess, they have always been the "delicate sludge hammer".

A S13 was no Miata or MR2, the Z32 was not a FD3S and the 240z was not a Opel GT or MG.

Nissan would need a 250+ hp engine in any car they build that is lighter and smaller than Geni.

[drift2010]

Idk mang... Car sounded like made in Mexico, like burrito BRZ (bean rice and zheese) get it...?

[simmode1]

Nissans have never been about finess, they have always been the "delicate sledge hammer".

A S13 was no Miata or MR2, the Z32 was not a FD3S and the 240z was not a Opel GT or MG.

Nissan would need a 250+ hp engine in any car they build that is lighter and smaller than Geni.
This guy gets it. I feel like buyers are mostly just looking at the FRS and Mustang, while overlooking the GC. This is telling manufacturers that we only want bloated cars with big displacement engines or tiny cars with 2.0 N/A hamster wheel engines. Lack of support for the GC turbo seals the fate of a middle-ground car like the Silvia has always been, IMO...

Its sad because the base model GC has more bang for your buck on the street than either of those cars base models. If Nissan does revive the Silvia, how much you wanna bet the turbocharged variant doesn't get released in the States again?

[13esim]

If I'm not mistaken, doesnt the GT86/BRZ use a similar design to the EJ20? Just with redisgned heads? If so wouldnt making aftermarket be simple and shouldnt some parts for the EJ20 fit on the FA20?(I beleive thats what it is called, off to google)

[axiomatik]

Definitely looks smaller in person, I liked it until I looked at the seating inside..

2+2 seater is a joke.. I'm 5'8" and with the driver seat in position there was 1.5" of space from the back of the front seat to the front of the back seat.

Was thinking it would be a nice daily since you have the option of fitting people in the back if need be, but it's not possible unless the driver has the steering wheel at their chest..

It's the size of an S13. Don't know why you are surprised by the interior room.

[1 88 U]

If I'm not mistaken, doesnt the GT86/BRZ use a similar design to the EJ20? Just with redisgned heads? If so wouldnt making aftermarket be simple and shouldnt some parts for the EJ20 fit on the FA20?(I beleive thats what it is called, off to google)

No. The FA20 is very different from the EJ series. Alot of fab work needs to be done just to get the EJ in there.

[drift freaq]

Nissans have never been about finess, they have always been the "delicate sludge hammer".

A S13 was no Miata or MR2, the Z32 was not a FD3S and the 240z was not a Opel GT or MG.
.

Interesting comparo's for analogies. Miata and S13 were completely different categories. Miata was roadster S13 was not. MR2 again was different as it was mid eng car, s13 is a front engine car. Completely different categories that you cannot compare. Z32 again though priced the same and released as flagship models were different. Z32 was a GT car ( larger version sports cars not usually considered sports cars in the pure sense) RX7 FD was a true sports car non GT category.
Supras were GT cars as well. While we are on the subject.

Now an MG was pretty much a roadster unless you bought the ones with the tops stuck on them(MGB GT) and honestly the Datsun Roadster was Nissan's answer to that, not the 240z.

The 240Z was more inline in competing with 911's of the era and TR6's. Not Opel GT's As far as market aims and categories.
The Opel GT was an anemically powered tin can of a Sports car compared to the 240Z. I know I witnessed both in person. LOL

If your going to do these comparisons at least know enough about the cars to call it right.

[simmode1]

^^^I think I get what he's trying to say though. There's tons of guys here on Zilvia that seem to love their S-Chassis, but their preference for the FRS over the GC 2.0T seems like they'd prefer an AE86 over an S-chassis.

[Corbic]

^^^I think I get what he's trying to say though. There's tons of guys here on Zilvia that seem to love their S-Chassis, but their preference for the FRS over the GC 2.0T seems like they'd prefer an AE86 over an S-chassis.

Or an Miata over a S13.

There was no Toyota/Nissan/Honda/Ford/Chevy "S13". They each had their own approach, by 1988 Toyota had ditched the RWD Celica and Honda had always been FWD.

Drift Freaq, would your argument about the 240Z not be just as flawed as my comparison to a MR2? The 911 is Rear Engined after all, and cost double, if not tripple the MSRP.

I'm basing my argument simply on price-point comparisons of "similar cars".

[initial_jc]

I'm 6'2" and I sat in one with more than enough room.

tight as long as my knee isn't banging the ebrake

[axiomatik]

^^^I think I get what he's trying to say though. There's tons of guys here on Zilvia that seem to love their S-Chassis, but their preference for the FRS over the GC 2.0T seems like they'd prefer an AE86 over an S-chassis.

The FR-S is just about the same size and weight as a 240SX. The GC 2.0T is larger, and weighs as much as a Mustang. What is surprising?

The AE86 is much harder to find, the aftermarket is smaller, the styling (inside and out) is much more dated. Sure, some people would prefer an AE86, while others want a modern rendition of the s-chassis. And the BR-Z/FR-S are as close to a modern s-chassis as we are going to see for a while.

[badbob2121]

200hp @7000rpm and 151lbft at 6400rpm...

I dont understand any of the hype/interest with these cars.

:down:

[LoneStarSilvia]

I dont understand any of the hype/interest with these cars.

:down:


It's cool, I guess all these long running car reviewing companies, Car & Driver and etc totally don't get the hype either.

It's really not about if you folk out there don't think the car has enough pwer or not, it's about creating a car that's going to sell like hot cakes and hopefully prod other companies into making this type of sub-$30k (before dealer mark ups) sportscar. Something the Genesis failed to do. Besides the 370Z, I can't think of another Japanese, or Asian affordable RWD sports car in current production.

Seriously, have all you nay sayers forgot your beloved S-Chassis once made 205hp WITH a turbo? I'm sure it won't be long until forced induction options are available.

[future]

It needs a sti swap

[SomeoneWhoIsntMe]

200hp @7000rpm and 151lbft at 6400rpm...

I dont understand any of the hype/interest with these cars.

:down:KA24DE
Max power: 155 hp (115 kW) @ 5600 rpm
Max torque: 160 ft·lbf (217 Nm) @ 4400 rpm

I dont understand any of the hype/interest with these cars.

[axiomatik]

KA24DE
Max power: 155 hp (115 kW) @ 5600 rpm
Max torque: 160 ft·lbf (217 Nm) @ 4400 rpm

I dont understand any of the hype/interest with these cars.

I was going to say the exact same thing. 240's weren't exactly powerful when they were on sale, and yet here we all are.

[badbob2121]

Cool... Ive never owned or had interest in a KA either..

I recently bought a new car, briefly looked at the BRZ, and the comparison was laughable between the other cars I was looking at.

Just my opinion, no need to get butt hurt

[simmode1]

The FR-S is just about the same size and weight as a 240SX. The GC 2.0T is larger, and weighs as much as a Mustang. What is surprising?

.... while others want a modern rendition of the s-chassis. And the BR-Z/FR-S are as close to a modern s-chassis as we are going to see for a while.
I don't have a problem with the FRS/BRZ chassis. I think it's brilliant. But both on the track and the street, the GC 2.0T walks all over the 86's nimble chassis. It's that motor. Personally, I don't care if the new 86 is smaller and lighter because this does not translate into actual speed.

You're paying the same price for a car that is slower. No way to get around that. That Road & Track comparison had the 86 coming in more than 2 seconds slower than the Genesis. And that's just in stock form. The Genesis aftermarket is already putting up huge numbers...

I could understand the appeal if the 86 was MUCH cheaper, but it isn't. By that same logic, the base Mustang should be the best value. But I feel that the turbo setup on the Genesis gives it the most bang for your buck performance and power production.

I'm just at the point where I'm tired of considering cars that need MAJOR work like engine swaps, N/A to turbo projects to see significant increases in performance. If S2000 turbo kits are any comparison, you're gonna be spending an additional $5000+ just to reach the Genesis' stock performance whereas the Genesis can do a minor turbo upgrade with supporting mods and it'll be knocking on the GT Mustang's door...

It's cool, I guess all these long running car reviewing companies, Car & Driver and etc totally don't get the hype either.
Don't get me wrong, those guys have a valid opinion. The BRZ/FRS feels great to drive, it's a driver's car. Thats a valid opinion. But the fact is that it's slower in real world performance. Thats not bang for your buck, IMO.

[Corbic]

I was going to say the exact same thing. 240's weren't exactly powerful when they were on sale, and yet here we all are.swapping motors and forever butthurt about not getting the SR20 stock

Fixed it.

"We're all here" because the 240SX fell into obscurity and became worthless until people started drifting and swapping motors at the turn of the century.

Also 155hp was powerful in the land of 80-120hp 4-bangers and 205hp V8s.

The 240sx's weight was also not noteworthy back then, simply average.

A 1990 Probe was 2,730, it's V6 made 140hp as did the Turbo 4. The NA motor was 110hp.

A Celica tipped the scales at 2,447 in coupe guise with a neck snapping 103 - 130hp.

Fuck a "full size" Accord 2,730 in both Coupe and Sedan. HP was 125-140.

A 240sx was mediocre, start to finish. Power, Handling, Quality, Price, ect.

There are no poems of its driver feed back nor epics written of its thrilling tuning potential from the early 90's.

[Corbic]

I'm just at the point where I'm tired of considering cars that need MAJOR work like engine swaps, N/A to turbo projects to see significant increases in performance. If S2000 turbo kits are any comparison, you're gonna be spending an additional $5000+ just to reach the Genesis' stock performance whereas the Genesis can do a minor turbo upgrade with supporting mods and it'll be knocking on the GT Mustang's door...


I hear you on this one. The engine layout of the FBRSZ is not conducive to an easy junkyard turbo build. It will need a lot of thought and fabrication.

I hate the Geni because it's fucking ugly. For what it costs to upgrade, turbo, mani, exhaust, injectors, FMIC, ECU, ect


You'll be asking "why didn't I just buy the Mustang GT".

Oh, $600 a month.... That is why

[simmode1]

^^^I used to hate the Genesis coupe's facelift too, but that ugly fucker has grown on me like the 370z has... lol

From what I'm hearing, the 2013 Genesis 2.0T has a huge intercooler. They say it's actually bigger than the twin used on the GTR. As for injectors, most Genny tuners are picking up used Evo injectors. Not quite sure how that integrated turbo+manifold setup is supposed to work out.

KA24DE
Max power: 155 hp (115 kW) @ 5600 rpm
Max torque: 160 ft·lbf (217 Nm) @ 4400 rpm

I dont understand any of the hype/interest with these cars.
Exactly. These buyers are gonna be locked in the same upgrade paths as KA powered 240's, S2000'S, Miata and old school AE86's: Hoping their stock internals hold up to the slightest amount of boost. The whole reason S-Chassis got popular in the first place is because of the mod friendly turbo motor.

[LoneStarSilvia]

I hate the Geni because it's fucking ugly.


This is just about the only reason I don't consider the Genesis that much, I just can't force myself to like it, and I can even get over the Hyaundai-ness. I don't know how true it is, but I heard the interior is cheap as shiiiiiiiiiiiiiit. I'm a stickler for factory Nav, alcantara and other creature comforts which is very appealing for the BRZ. But I ain't touchin that shit for over $30k. I'll wait until it's a few years old.

I'll look into the Genesis more, but it's just a personal preferance that I tend to dig a light nimble chassis.

Edit: Ugh, I can't do it, they somehow made it uglier in 2013. Damn. I will give it to you, the engine specs are nice, though heavier than I'd like.

Double edit: For the record I was comparing the FRSBRZ engine to the first gen S13 SR's.

Triple edit: I realize that all of the ugliness in the new Genesis can be changed with a good looking front bumper, that shit is terrible. I wonder if people prefer the the V6 or the turbo more.

[greddy2die]

http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/s720x720/576610_408831722492293_1473692235_n.jpg

I think it looks rather good.

[axiomatik]

I don't have a problem with the FRS/BRZ chassis. I think it's brilliant. But both on the track and the street, the GC 2.0T walks all over the 86's nimble chassis. It's that motor. Personally, I don't care if the new 86 is smaller and lighter because this does not translate into actual speed.

You're paying the same price for a car that is slower. No way to get around that. That Road & Track comparison had the 86 coming in more than 2 seconds slower than the Genesis. And that's just in stock form. The Genesis aftermarket is already putting up huge numbers...

I could understand the appeal if the 86 was MUCH cheaper, but it isn't. By that same logic, the base Mustang should be the best value. But I feel that the turbo setup on the Genesis gives it the most bang for your buck performance and power production.

I'm just at the point where I'm tired of considering cars that need MAJOR work like engine swaps, N/A to turbo projects to see significant increases in performance. If S2000 turbo kits are any comparison, you're gonna be spending an additional $5000+ just to reach the Genesis' stock performance whereas the Genesis can do a minor turbo upgrade with supporting mods and it'll be knocking on the GT Mustang's door...


Don't get me wrong, those guys have a valid opinion. The BRZ/FRS feels great to drive, it's a driver's car. Thats a valid opinion. But the fact is that it's slower in real world performance. Thats not bang for your buck, IMO.

I guess we just want different things out of cars. Frankly, I don't care about what kind of lap times a street car puts down. I am more interested in enjoying the drive, and I will take light and nimble over big and powerful everyday. If I were building a racecar, then yes, lap times would be important. But if I'm just looking to buy a car to drive to work during the week and drive in the mountains on the weekends, lap times are irrelevant.

[simmode1]

But if I'm just looking to buy a car to drive to work during the week and drive in the mountains on the weekends, lap times are irrelevant.
You are right, we do see things differently. From my perspective, how much nimbleness do you need to go to the grocery store or to work? If you're gonna be on alot of streets and highways, superior passing power seems like it would be preferable but I guess not. From my perspective, a driver's car like the BRZ/FRS doesn't really start to show its appeal UNLESS its on a small track. Other than that, it's like... meh.

I mean, if it had a small turbo on it with maybe 240hp or so, I'd be all over it. I'm pretty sure even a stock S2000 would outrun it...

Edit: Yep.
BRZ 0-60: 7.3 sec
AP1 S2000 0-60: 5.8 sec.

Man seriously. Eff this car.

[starfire240]

You are right, we do see things differently. From my perspective, how much nimbleness do you need to go to the grocery store or to work? If you're gonna be on alot of streets and highways, superior passing power seems like it would be preferable but I guess not. From my perspective, a driver's car like the BRZ/FRS doesn't really start to show its appeal UNLESS its on a small track. Other than that, it's like... meh.

I mean, if it had a small turbo on it with maybe 240hp or so, I'd be all over it. I'm pretty sure even a stock S2000 would outrun it...

Edit: Yep.
BRZ 0-60: 7.3 sec
AP1 S2000 0-60: 5.8 sec.

Man seriously. Eff this car.

^^^ agreed. FRS/BRZ has a long way to go until it can be a legend like the s-chassis.

[VROOOM]

the 240sx is a legend? you do realize that a 1998 240sx LE was more expensive brand new than a 2013 FR-S.

[drift freaq]

Or an Miata over a S13.

There was no Toyota/Nissan/Honda/Ford/Chevy "S13". They each had their own approach, by 1988 Toyota had ditched the RWD Celica and Honda had always been FWD.

Drift Freaq, would your argument about the 240Z not be just as flawed as my comparison to a MR2? The 911 is Rear Engined after all, and cost double, if not tripple the MSRP.

I'm basing my argument simply on price-point comparisons of "similar cars".


yes I do suppose you could cry foul for the 911 statement. So we both stretched things a little I will give you that.

I really do not do the price point comparison deal though because at the time no one had produced a 2350Lb pound sports car that had a 150hp for 4k. It was completely unheard of. Most cost more the 10k range.

It really was a ground breaker and its what really established Japanese Sports cars in the world. One could say ya there was the Roadster or the Toyota 2000GT. Though the Roadster did not sell in the kind of the numbers the 240Z did. The Toyota was also astronomical in pricing for its day like the LFA is today, and did not have high production numbers.

Effectively the 240Z brought a European type Sports car to the masses for unheard of prices. It also competed against the 911 in competition and won several years in a row. This is why I brought up the 911.

The Opel GT was one of the little shit box's of the day and did not have much impact. Except for people stuffing V8's in them. LOL Which absolutely shredded the chassis.

Fixed it.

"We're all here" because the 240SX fell into obscurity and became worthless until people started drifting and swapping motors at the turn of the century.

Also 155hp was powerful in the land of 80-120hp 4-bangers and 205hp V8s.

The 240sx's weight was also not noteworthy back then, simply average.

A 1990 Probe was 2,730, it's V6 made 140hp as did the Turbo 4. The NA motor was 110hp.

A Celica tipped the scales at 2,447 in coupe guise with a neck snapping 103 - 130hp.

Fuck a "full size" Accord 2,730 in both Coupe and Sedan. HP was 125-140.

A 240sx was mediocre, start to finish. Power, Handling, Quality, Price, ect.

There are no poems of its driver feed back nor epics written of its thrilling tuning potential from the early 90's.

Actually again you have some facts backwards man. First off the 240sx fastback had some pretty damn good stats for an entry level Sports car in 1989. It had a drag coefficent of 032 a center of gravity of .029 and it pulled .89 on the skidpad . Which was actually quite good. To say it was mediocre in handling? Perhaps by todays standards one might say that but in the 90's that was actually quite good.
Look at the stats on a 240z or 911 or Vette from 1970 you would say they are absolutely horrible but for their day they were pretty good.

Oh and what really killed the 240sx after modest success in 89-90 was the fact that A: Nissan USA was extremely cautious about marketing it because they did not want to overshadow the Z32 and Honda brought the Acura Integra with a 170HP. Most of the young people buying new cars at the time no longer were RWD aware. They had driven their parents Honda's in the late 80's. They saw HP and bought it. Period.

Now on to the FRS/BRZ. I do like them. I think they hit the nail on the head. I think they will be road raced heavily as they should because that really defines a sports car claim to legitimacy.

This is were the Geni does not seem to be cutting it. Yes some people are drifting it. But its not being road raced or if it is its not performing because I don't hear about it. LOL
Even the 240sx had mild success in road racing here in the U.S. in its first two years. Which gave it legitimacy. Even if the general public ignored it.


For me a Sports car needs legitimacy and I do not see that with the Geni's I do see it happening with the BRZ/FRS. On there HP side 200HP is nice a starting point for a 2700 LB car. Hell Nissan did quite well in Japan with 205 HP 180sx's. I think most of you have just gotten to caught up in HP numbers.
Ignoring the overall balance and capability of the cars in question. Does it perform well with the 200HP engine? In fact it does by all reports. I will be test driving one soon so perhaps I will report back my impressions as well.
Could it use more? Possibly if the chassis is designed well enough for it.


The current generation of 240 owners got into 240's strictly because they were cheap and they could drift them.
When I got into 240sx's it was because finding a affordable RWD sports car in the late 90's was no simple task. There were not a lot out there.
Things have indeed changed since then . One often wonders for better or worse? LOL

[LoneStarSilvia]

For me a Sports car needs legitimacy and I do not see that with the Geni's I do see it happening with the BRZ/FRS. On there HP side 200HP is nice a starting point for a 2700 LB car. Hell Nissan did quite well in Japan with 205 HP 180sx's. I think most of you have just gotten to caught up in HP numbers.
Ignoring the overall balance and capability of the cars in question. Does it perform well with the 200HP engine? In fact it does by all reports. I will be test driving one soon so perhaps I will report back my impressions as well.
Could it use more? Possibly if the chassis is designed well enough for it.


I'm glad someone else gets it. I forget how many drifters and hardparkers roam these forums.

I wish we could just hit the fast forward button 3 years and see how it's doing then or if any new challengers appeared. I am loving all the pictures popping up with them have suspension and nice wheels, damn they look good.

[MWH_Photo]

From my perspective, a driver's car like the BRZ/FRS doesn't really start to show its appeal UNLESS its on a small track. Other than that, it's like... meh.


I was really hung up over the BRZ/FRS as well but this (and a few other things) made me indifferent about the car since 99% of the driving I'd be doing is on the street.

The refreshed front end of the GC doesn't look all that bad in person, and the back end still looks amazing. I "think" they got rid of the rev hang in the manual version of the FI variant as well, which was my only gripe with the previous gen GC. I'm just narrow minded and the Hyundai badge isn't my cup of tea though =/

I plan on just trying to bump up my price range to Evo X GSR territory before they go Hybrid and if that doesn't work I'll likely give up on trying to own a "cool" car.

[DisEpyon]

I'm glad someone else gets it. I forget how many drifters and hardparkers roam these forums.

I wish we could just hit the fast forward button 3 years and see how it's doing then or if any new challengers appeared. I am loving all the pictures popping up with them have suspension and nice wheels, damn they look good.


So you been to the future already 3 years from now and came back?

[towlie]

I think it's one of the nicest looking cars to hit the market in the last few years. I'm sure company's will produce some nice turbo/suspension parts pretty soon

[DJ-of-E]

Oh and what really killed the 240sx after modest success in 89-90 was the fact that A: Nissan USA was extremely cautious about marketing it because they did not want to overshadow the Z32 and Honda brought the Acura Integra with a 170HP. Most of the young people buying new cars at the time no longer were RWD aware. They had driven their parents Honda's in the late 80's. They saw HP and bought it.[b] Period.

The current generation of 240 owners got into 240's strictly because they were cheap and they could drift them.
[b]When I got into 240sx's it was because finding a affordable RWD sports car in the late 90's was no simple task. There were not a lot out there.
Things have indeed changed since then . One often wonders for better or worse? LOL

So fucken true for me, haha. The first car I've driven was my dad's 1982 Nissan 280zx. Took that thing to school and made high school Honda boys cry. The first car I've bought an own was a 1985 Toyota Celica GT-S. If it weren't for the rust, I'd still keep it. The fact that my dad pretty much drive nothing but RWD cars made it my priority to find a good import RWD. Fortunately, it was before "drifting" came along where every kid still buys a "Honda," it was damn easy finding a clean 240sx (or 2 within 6 months).

[simmode1]

This is were the Geni does not seem to be cutting it. Yes some people are drifting it. But its not being road raced or if it is its not performing because I don't hear about it. LOL
Somehow, I don't think that's the car's fault. Seems to have loads of potential and capability. We've already seen it flog the 86 around a track. Hyundai just probably doesn't have even capital to finance a major racing effort with it. Nissan & Toyota had tons to RWD racing history by the time it released its 90's favorites. Give the little H some slack.
MfAy1biKFic

[driftracerx]

truth...

I agree that the 350z = 240sx successor...shit ton of them out there and you can get one for 10k. :)

or 8k in auction =)

[LoneStarSilvia]

So you been to the future already 3 years from now and came back?

You feel good about that? Congrats.


I'd like to see the 2013 Genesis with an aftermarket front bumper. That stock one is all that is wrong with that car. Simmode since you're the spokesperson for them now, have you noticed any trends in people picking the V6 over the L4 or vise versa?

[ManoNegra]

I think it's one of the nicest looking cars to hit the market in the last few years. I'm sure company's will produce some nice turbo/suspension parts pretty soon

Just about all the major Japanese big names have parts for them already.

Somehow, I don't think that's the car's fault. Seems to have loads of potential and capability.

But a car isn't successful just on potential and capability alone.
Several tuners jumped on board when the Genesis was released
and most, Cobb comes to mind, pretty much put it on the shelf
since most owners appear to be cheap
no one buying 'quality' parts = no development from 'quality' tuners
sounds familiar

[Syncade]

Subaru BRZ = Miata size = small peepee

[DJ-of-E]

since most owners appear to be cheap
no one buying 'quality' parts = no development from 'quality' tuners
sounds familiar

Better than the 370z

very little customer base = can buy 'quality' parts = little development from 'quality' tuners.

[raz0rbladez909]

Subaru BRZ = Miata size = small peepee

:picardfp: It's the bigger the vehicle the smaller the peepee, not the other way around. You know the whole "compensating" thing.

The BRZ being Miata size is a great thing, if social stigma prevents you from buying a car then you have your own insecurities to worry about. Lightweight cars are what we need to return to, all this technology and extra safety stuff to protect us from ourselves has bloated our cars and turned them into boats.

I do find it extremely funny that people knock the BRZ/FRS for not being turbo out of the box. Would it have been cool? Sure, but the car wasn't made to be a powerhouse. I think many people are forgetting that this isn't a "Silvia Successor" it is a car built in homage to the AE86 Corolla on the premise of being lightweight and sporty, which it accomplishes. The AE86 was never a powerhouse and it certainly wasn't very impressive out of the box. I really don't understand why people are concerning themselves with the 1/4 mile time of the car because that's not what it was designed to do. I also find it funny when people are comparing their old ass 240's to brand new cars and saying they aren't worth the price. But if you compared the 240sx's msrp and the BRZ/FRS msrp's you wouldn't think twice about the 240sx. Finally we never recieved the silvia stateside, the 240sx was not turbo out of the box, only after the car had been out for almost 10 years were people swapping in SR20's, so quit acting like the 240sx was some powerhouse as we had received it, not to mention the SR20 only made 205hp WITH a turbo.

[LoneStarSilvia]

not to mention the SR20 only made 205hp WITH a turbo.



Seriously, have all you nay sayers forgot your beloved S-Chassis once made 205hp WITH a turbo?

:boink:


I think anyone who comes in here and their ONLY gripe is the power, then your opinion and null and void. Try concentrating on the many good things it does, instead of the single thing it doesn't.

It's lightweight, reasonably priced (when dealer mark up dies down), handles great, and looks damn good. Guess it just goes to show people will never be satisfied, even when presented with gold.

[badbob2121]

even when presented with gold.

:facepalm:

[Corbic]

, not to mention the SR20 only made 205hp WITH a turbo.

In 19 Fucking 91!!!

You know, back when V8 Muscle cars made 220hp and got 15mpg!!

Back when Hondas had 85hp D15s!

Times have changed, so have expectations.

[LoneStarSilvia]

Times have changed, so have expectations.


Yea you're right, it's making damn near the same numbers without a turbo. There's been a ton of comparisons, why not this one? Is this not an improvement?

I realize the car could use more power for sure, but goddamn you guys are acting like it's the end all be all of this car. The car hasn't even been on the market for a couple of months, I'm sure it won't be long before someone is making over 300hp on it.

[simmode1]

Simmode since you're the spokesperson for them now, have you noticed any trends in people picking the V6 over the L4 or vise versa?
That is a good question there. I've just been poking around their forums pretty much. Seems like you got the guys who are leasing the cars & planning to get rid of them driving the V6's with suspension/wheel/tire mods. The 2.0T drivers seem alot like the new generation of S-chassis owners. Alot have never owned a turbo car before, but are jumping headfirst into chasing easy power. Some are getting it right by following the lead of more experienced owners. But some are just blowing their shit up.

But a car isn't successful just on potential and capability alone.
Several tuners jumped on board when the Genesis was released
and most, Cobb comes to mind, pretty much put it on the shelf
since most owners appear to be cheap
no one buying 'quality' parts = no development from 'quality' tuners
sounds familiar
That is a good point. The 2.0T drivers definently seem budget-minded (like S-chassis guys), but what kind of quality parts are you talking about? They've got some privateer full builds going on over there with forged internals and 600hp... I see alot of them with HKS parts, but also I see Korean brands popping up to support the car, which is really interesting to me. I feel that some ppl are over looking support for the car because they don't recognize the KDM brands ppl are using. Gotta break out of the JDM mindset with this car...

But who is that Parts Shop Max vendor on here? I'd ask him for details. I'd consider them the resident expert around this forum...

[raz0rbladez909]

In 19 Fucking 91!!!

You know, back when V8 Muscle cars made 220hp and got 15mpg!!

Back when Hondas had 85hp D15s!

Times have changed, so have expectations.

:picardfp: I'm glad that was the only thing that got your attention out of the whole thing. How much more horsepower were you expecting out of an NA 2.0? If they tried to make s2000 power everyone would be complaining that it doesn't have enough torque or that it costs even more than it already does. I understand it isn't the end all be all of cars but it certainly isn't supposed to be. Just like the Mazda MX-5 it is a NICHE car and like the MX-5 it's not designed to be the all out power house that people were for some reason expecting. I'm sure with some gearing you can probably get it to accelerate quite a bit better(but mpg will suffer dramatically so thats probably why it wasn't done). To me the price is reasonable for what you are getting. You are essentially getting an MX5 with almost 40 more horspower, 2+2 seating(for very small people) and a bit more storage space is what it boils down to, for only a little bit more than a base Miata sells for. Not to mention the aftermarket for the car is already off to a steady start. I find it funny that people are arguing for the cars demise when they should be praising it for being another rwd platform that was previously not around, giving us another option.

You are also comparing an NA car that is making 100hp per liter, to cars that are still not hitting the 100hp per liter mark. If you think of it that way the Mustang v6/gt should be at 370/500hp by now when last I checked they were rated at 305/412. Also the only reason the v8's are making remotely any good MPG's is because of their 6th gears being so low in the rpm band because they actually have the low end torque to be able to do so and not have any significant issues. The other reason that the domestic's are cheaper are because guess what, they're from our country! So of course its going to be cheaper than importing something from across the ocean.

[atom]

People wanted a successor to the AE86, they got pretty much everything they wanted (right down to the so so power) and theres still people complaining. Never satisfied.

GC is kinda cool but I'm just not into the styling. Being newish cars under warranty, theres not as many fully built privateer GC's but the ones that are, are doing some nice numbers. I expect the BRZ will be exactly the same way.

[simmode1]

I want to be clear. There's really only two things I don't like about the new 86:
- I think the power is fine as long as you don't compare it to anything else in it's price range or demographic. I'm sure its a blast to drive. I just think it should be a bit cheaper for 200hp.
- The wheel lug 5x100 pattern. Fuck that. For real.

Other than that, I think its good. I just think the GC gives you more for your money. But I'll probably end up in a used Z33 anyway, so I'm gonna stop bitching about it now.

[atom]

A Camry is about 23k and they sell how many of those a year?

It's a niche car. How much cheaper can they really sell it?

[LoneStarSilvia]

I don't see the 5x100 being a huge problem seeing at what group of enthusiasts this car is aimed at, lug conversions will probably pop up like hot grease.

The only reason the power output doesn't bug me is because it's STOCK. There's no way in hell any of us would leave it be at that. A responsive 250-280hp on a 2700lbs street car would be killer. It's like my FD, I'm doing jack shit for power, just easy bolt ons and PFC and the rest goes towards handling in an already light and nimble car and I LOVE IT.

I really, reeeeally want to test drive a BRZFRS though. Say about 3-4 years, I'll be looking for a new stateside car and right now it's a toss up between a BRZ, Z34 (maybe 33), and maaaaaaaaaaaybe a GC. The engine specs of that thing have grown on me, but numbers only tell half the story.

It'd be boss if I could sneak behind the wheel of a GT86 while i'm out here.

[simmode1]

I don't see the 5x100 being a huge problem seeing at what group of enthusiasts this car is aimed at, lug conversions will probably pop up like hot grease.

The only reason the power output doesn't bug me is because it's STOCK. There's no way in hell any of us would leave it be at that. A responsive 250-280hp on a 2700lbs street car would be killer. It's like my FD, I'm doing jack shit for power, just easy bolt ons and PFC and the rest goes towards handling in an already light and nimble car and I LOVE IT..
For the lugs... that's just some shit I'd rather not have to do. Makes ZERO sense to me why Subaru would bless the STI's with 5x114.3 and then waste money making less popular 5x100 hubs in the first place. Why not just put 5x114.3 on all passenger vehicles and leave it at that?

As for getting 250-280hp out of the 86, I totally agree that would probably be the ideal power target I'd go for. My problem is the effort it'll take to get there. Just not into DIY turbo kits and that stuff anymore. Living by the K.I.S.S. method nowadays: Keep It Simple, Stupid.

[Corbic]

:picardfp: I'm glad that was the only thing that got your attention out of the whole thing. How much more horsepower were you expecting out of an NA 2.0? If they tried to make s2000 power everyone would be complaining that it doesn't have enough torque or that it costs even more than it already does. I understand it isn't the end all be all of cars but it certainly isn't supposed to be. Just like the Mazda MX-5 it is a NICHE car and like the MX-5 it's not designed to be the all out power house that people were for some reason expecting.

And that is why it is not the new 240sx.

The Silvia was the last of Japan's Poney cars. It was a Nissan Camaro.

So don't give me some bullshit about how what is essentially a Miata with a roof is it's successor, which is what this thread is about.

The FBRSZ is the AE86/MR2 successor, not a RWD Celica Successor which was once rival to the Silvia before Toyota pussed out and made it FWD.

http://dsalni.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/394714120_718d0ca62b_o.jpg

[Corbic]

The only reason the power output doesn't bug me is because it's STOCK. There's no way in hell any of us would leave it be at that. A responsive 250-280hp on a 2700lbs street car would be killer. It's like my FD, I'm doing jack shit for power, just easy bolt ons and PFC and the rest goes towards handling in an already light and nimble car and I LOVE IT.


And what will that extra 50-80 hp cost you?

$4,500?

$8,000?


Intake, exhaust, headers, spacer and a tune will run you near $4k and I'm sure you'll barely see a 10whp gain.

[Corbic]

This car really is sounding more and more like a MR-S replacement.

Slightly more expensive then a Miata, equal or better handeling and driving dynamics. A focus on driving dynamics over power and an emphasis as a commuter/fuel efficient sports car.

Its just a FR coupe this time instead of a MR roadster.

[13esim]

Just put Tak in one. Then power won't be a complaint like the AE86 haha.

[simmode1]

This car really is sounding more and more like a MR-S replacement.
I was thinking the exact same thing. Great vehicle, with great potential that got written off as a chick car because the engine was so weak and prohibitively/expensive difficult to upgrade. And those fucking cars are still expensive as shit for some reason!

The 86 should be able to avoid that fate, but it could happen...

[Matej]

Uras put a 2JZ in it already. :)

[towlie]

So is that one fd dude that drive the supra^

B O S S

[raz0rbladez909]

And that is why it is not the new 240sx.

The Silvia was the last of Japan's Poney cars. It was a Nissan Camaro.

So don't give me some bullshit about how what is essentially a Miata with a roof is it's successor, which is what this thread is about.

The FBRSZ is the AE86/MR2 successor, not a RWD Celica Successor which was once rival to the Silvia before Toyota pussed out and made it FWD.

I'm quite sure you're preaching to the Choir on this one. It's like you repeated everything I just said lol
To me the price is reasonable for what you are getting. You are essentially getting an MX5 with almost 40 more horspower, 2+2 seating(for very small people) and a bit more storage space is what it boils down to, for only a little bit more than a base Miata sells for.



I think many people are forgetting that this isn't a "Silvia Successor" it is a car built in homage to the AE86 Corolla on the premise of being lightweight and sporty, which it accomplishes. The AE86 was never a powerhouse and it certainly wasn't very impressive out of the box.

[Matej]

Saw a couple of these things street drifting and driving recklessly.
It looked fun.
I want to drive my car. :(

[turtl631]

Anybody here pick one up yet? I like the idea, power does obviously seem a little soft but the controversy on the internet about these things is ridiculous. Some people enjoy slower cars with good dynamics, so what? It's not like Mustangs, Corvettes, STIs, 335is, etc are being forced out of production by these cars. We just have another option now. A cooler looking, slightly faster Miata with a roof on it is something that hasn't been on the market until now. RX8 too goofy looking and unreliable to count :D

[1 88 U]

Went to the dealership to check out an FR-S today. I still prefer the BRZ and will get a Limited model once they stop playing this exclusive limited supply new car game. I'm 5'10/ 225 lbs and the seats are a little tight on my love handles but maybe it'll make my fat ass cut some weight.

The back seats are far more usable than an s13's. I test fit an infant carrier and base without having to lean the front seat. The sales man was about my height and fit his legs in the back seat while I didn't have to compromise too much driver leg room. I think it's possible to fit 4 sub 6'0 foot tall people for short trips without too much problem.

[ManoNegra]

hmmm..... interesting

http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/s480x480/599307_409239499118182_972519937_n.jpg

[usdm180sx]

Now that Toyota is sponsoring scion racing to do a 1/2jz swap kit I just got a huge hard on

[singlecamslam]

Seen a few on the street already, i think they look really good. Since they have a subie engine, they should throw in an sti motor in it as an option..

[simmode1]

Seen a few on the street already, i think they look really good. Since they have a subie engine, they should throw in an sti motor in it as an option..
Well, the turbo variant of this motor already exists.
Turbo Version of Subaru BRZ’s FA-Series Engine Debuts in Japanese Legacy, Will Power Next WRX (http://blog.caranddriver.com/turbo-version-of-subaru-brzs-fa-series-engine-debuts-in-japanese-legacy-will-power-next-wrx/)

But both Subaru and Toyota has stated that they have no plans for factory forced induction on the BRZ/FRS/GT86.

Considering that the current WRX makes 265 turbocharged hp and still sells for $2000 less than the BRX, things are gonna be really interesting when the next WRX comes out making aroound 300hp.

I swear, for what you're getting it seems like the BRZ and FRS have built in drift tax. Imagine the price hike is there was a turbo version.

[LoneStarSilvia]

I swear, for what you're getting it seems like the BRZ and FRS have dealer in drift tax.

Give it a few years and I bet you'd be find some used one for sub-$20k, but by then I would suspect they'd have a more powerful version out.

Have you gents seen this yet? HKS wringing out some supercharged power. 250HP for the "street" version, and 394HP for the "racing" versions. Follow the link for more info:

GT86/FRS HKS supercharger kit. (http://toyobaru.net/forums/f34/gt86-frs-hks-supercharger-kit-1041/#post11792)

[aziankingz]

Read someone already wrecked his already.. didn't take too long. Apparently, he was taking a corner that he normally takes with his FWD car, tried it with the FRS/BRZ and was surprised it oversteered when he accelerated into and throughout the corner - crashed into a pole. Sucks to see such a sweet looking car wrecked so quick..

This is the link:
Wrecked FR-S Crash Already - Not Mine - Scion FR-S Forum | Subaru BRZ Forum | Toyota 86 GT 86 Forum | AS1 Forum - FT86CLUB (http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8821)

[silverarrow27]

LOL, back to fwd for that fellow...

[markfitz14]

I love the new FRS it looks awesome and is cheap. It may only have 200hp but we all know over time we can mod the car or swap an SR or RB in it haha. Why would people ever buy the BRZ over the FRS? The FRS is cheaper and thats what counts. Who cares about a few dials in the car or whatever. I want the chassis thats it. The 240 is old looking and the FRS is modern and sleek looking.

[simmode1]

Read someone already wrecked his already.. didn't take too long. Apparently, he was taking a corner that he normally takes with his FWD car, tried it with the FRS/BRZ and was surprised it oversteered when he accelerated into and throughout the corner - crashed into a pole. Sucks to see such a sweet looking car wrecked so quick..

This is the link:
Wrecked FR-S Crash Already - Not Mine - Scion FR-S Forum | Subaru BRZ Forum | Toyota 86 GT 86 Forum | AS1 Forum - FT86CLUB (http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8821)
I wonder what the insurance rates will be like for the 86 versus the GC 2.0t...

I love the new FRS it looks awesome and is cheap. It may only have 200hp but we all know over time we can mod the car or swap an SR or RB in it haha. Why would people ever buy the BRZ over the FRS? The FRS is cheaper and thats what counts. Who cares about a few dials in the car or whatever. I want the chassis thats it. The 240 is old looking and the FRS is modern and sleek looking.
You wanna swap a few 20 year old motors into this car? There's way too much involved with the very concept of a swap of any kind to talk about it so casually like that, IMO. Not to mention you must not care about your warranty or reliability...

[raz0rbladez909]

or swap an SR or RB in it haha.

:picardfp:

I've seen a few on the streets lately and it is honestly a very good looking car. Specifically their orange color looks really nice. I really enjoy seeing kognitions updates on how they are going to mod theirs, supposedly coming out with a widebody soon and already have a wing in development for it.:snoop:

[MWH_Photo]

I take back what I said earlier..

I can fit in the back comfortably.. (5'8" 125#'s) Had a little case of claustrophobia because the front seat pins my feet to the floor when it's in position.. but other than that I cant complain. Don't hit my head on the glass like I do in an S13 because the FR-S seats dip lower.

Power isn't THAT bad either. Feels torqy in the low RPM's, but it doesn't have enough to really impress on the top end. It suits the chassis though.. just doesn't feel overpowered like an EVO.

[MrSanchez925]

I love the new FRS it looks awesome and is cheap. It may only have 200hp but we all know over time we can mod the car or swap an SR or RB in it haha. Why would people ever buy the BRZ over the FRS? The FRS is cheaper and thats what counts. Who cares about a few dials in the car or whatever. I want the chassis thats it. The 240 is old looking and the FRS is modern and sleek looking.

From what I've been told is that the BRZ comes with better suspension from factory, hence the price difference.

Not 100% sure though.

[MWH_Photo]

Same suspension just tuned differently.

FRS = prone to more oversteer
BRZ = prone to more understeer

With the BRZ you get HID, Nav, and more durable seat fabric standard in the premium trim which is ~1k more than the Scion.

[LoneStarSilvia]

The extra features of the BRZ are what I want, not all of us are cheap asses. I'm a sucker for factory Nav and Alcantara.

I think it comes with keyless remote and start, but honestly I don't give a rat's ass about that. IMHO, if I'm buying a new car, I want it to feel modern. Not like I just bought something bare bones from the 90's.

[MWH_Photo]

The Alcantra comes on the Limited which is like ~28K iirc, but that's still only a 2K bump up from the Premium.. and you get a smart key complete with a center console that doesn't look like it came from the late 90's.

Hell the FRS that I drove had cheap leather seats and they wanted 1.5K extra for it.. The price bump from the Prem to the Limited is more than worth it with what you get.

Same can be said with the jump from FRS to BRZ.. more than worth the 1K you pay.

[HyperTek]

Wrecked FR-S Crash Already - Not Mine - Scion FR-S Forum | Subaru BRZ Forum | Toyota 86 GT 86 Forum | AS1 Forum - FT86CLUB (http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8821)

Idiot ex-honda owner crashed his FRS lol

edit: opps guess it was already posted lol