NA KA questions

[Prophet513]

So I tried the small questions thread and for the second time I had no luck..

Basically what I asked was:

Where is the guy who did the "1 time KA tune for $100" and how can I get my hands on that for my KA?

Also, I know this may be stupid but will this:
Do it yourself dual exhaust cam swap for KA24DE engines (http://www.nicoclub.com/archives/cam-swap-ka24de.html)

have any cons in an NA build?

and will it be a good idea to combine with a tune and i/h/e..?

I did a few searches but couldn't find anything useful with the information I had.

btw I was also wondering if the cam swap takes away the KA's low end torque...?

[c_mancuyas8]

you wont need a tune for the "hot cam swap" it will lose some low end but will gain in top end

[Schassis707]

The powerband is mostly wasted since the ka doesnt rev that high. Ka has a long stroke and shouldnt have a high rev anyways. The powerband is set for part mid mostly high.

Look up 248/232 upgrade. Complete mid to high power not sacrificing much low end too.

[Prophet513]

What about this guy and his use of the tune?
(PROOF) That NA KA can make 200CHP on $1000 - S-Chassis.com (http://www.club240.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30440)

That's my most important thing, finding that guy haha. Or big vinnie who hasn't been on in like 4 months......

[Prophet513]

Also, to speak on my perspective, I don't know much about ECUs and/or pulleys and what not..

Is this the pulley I want based on the thread I posted above?
*ISIS Underdrive Crank Pulley - Nissan 240sx 91-98 - Enjuku Racing Parts, LLC (http://www.enjukuracing.com/products/*ISIS-Underdrive-Crank-Pulley-%252d-Nissan-240sx-91%252d98.html)

[project-D180]

talk to r s enthalpy..he'll hook u up

[Prophet513]

Contacted them through their site.

I still have a lot of questions that seem to have no answers. It's pretty frustrating and every path seems to lead to dead website.

[KA24DESOneThree]

I'm going to ask all the same questions I want to ask everyone who posts these questions.

Is it for straight-line speed?

Is it for the road course?

Is it for drifting?

[Dori90]

I'm going to ask all the same questions I want to ask everyone who posts these questions.

Is it for straight-line speed?

Is it for the road course?

Is it for drifting?


i think this is in general...meaning all the above..but im just guesing lol

[Dori90]

oh yeah and emance tuning here in san diego
E-Mance.com Custom ECU Tuning (http://sdclubracing.com/old/oldsdcrforum/viewforum.php?id=20)
talk to jason

[KA24DESOneThree]

i think this is in general...meaning all the above..but im just guesing lol

His answers let us know what his intent is and lets us help him make the most informed decision.

[Prophet513]

I'm just looking for more pulling power so I guess straight line speed.... not sure what else engine mods are gonna do for you haha

[Prophet513]

oh yeah and emance tuning here in san diego
E-Mance.com Custom ECU Tuning (http://sdclubracing.com/old/oldsdcrforum/viewforum.php?id=20)
talk to jason

the last posts on that site are from 2010.....:rolleyes:

[KA24DESOneThree]

The dual 248 swap doesn't really seem to work without either more efficient intake manifold design or higher compression. The 240 is an ideal intake cam duration for a stock-compression KA running pump gas.

Intake, Hotshot/DC Sports header, 3" exhaust, lightweight pulley and N60/N62 MAF will make power up to and probably through 6500rpm, but will require either a tune or the addition of an S-AFC.

[project-D180]

actually u dont need a tune for the n60..i ran mine on my stock ecu n it worked fine

[nate1]

me and project d have both done high comp n/a pm us for any info u need well hook u up.

[KA24DESOneThree]

actually u dont need a tune for the n60..i ran mine on my stock ecu n it worked fine

It was running AFMs where they are supposed to be for optimum efficiency?

"Worked fine" and "made power" can be two entirely different things.

[89JDM240sx]

You can do drop 264's and be good... When I had my Ka I had a rebuilt Ka with BC 264's I/H/E and it made good power didn't lose low end and I gained top end...

[Jus Skott]

Just throwing it out there, two things that you never want to skimp on, machine work and tunes. unless you like pissing money into the wind.

[Prophet513]

Oh I'm aware. but this guy had a reputation and simply did it the way he did just for 240 enthusiasts

[BarrigaS14]

JWT cams are amazing. Had them, loved them. Stay away from under drive pulleys.

[project-D180]

if u go with the 248x2 you will have to set it to stock facing away the advance the intake 5 degrees..it should idle like stock and then your in the money..i just finished that up on my 95 zenki this past week n it definitly wakes the ka up

[project-D180]

i beg to differ on the pulleys,it sure helps with the throttle response..i have just the crank pulley but i will be lookin to get the rest of accessory pulleys and 4-1 headers instead of the 4-2-1...speaking of which nate you should see if chassis fab can make u a custom set of 4-1 header for the ka either 1 piece or two..

[project-D180]

also a lighty weight flywheel helps also

[tapdeznutz]

good stuff subscribing, also did or do you guys know that sr/ka24de accessory pulleys work for ka24E?

[fliprayzin240sx]

I hate my KA but it definitely need an underdrive pulley and lighter flywheel to feel like an NA SR. Stock NA SRs are more fun to drift on compared to a stock KA.

[Prophet513]

i have just the crank pulley but i will be lookin to get the rest of accessory pulleys and 4-1 headers instead of the 4-2-1.

may I ask why?

and so the sr20 accessory pulleys DO work on the ka??

[BarrigaS14]

Just want to be aware with pulleys that they drive down your car's system. So if you have heating issues and install some, your cooling could be compromised for instance. Also, the main crank pulley is also a damper for the vibrations from the crank. The KA crank is not a balanced crank like one in a SR for instance. So the added vibrations could screw up your car. Seriously, you will not gain much out of a I4 with a pulley. It might feel like it revs faster, but in reality you will not gain much.

You really should just save the money and turbo...or supercharge.

[tapdeznutz]

why are there so much pro and con about the crank pulley. some say they been running it for years no issue and others say do not ever get a crank pulley, i mean wtf...

[Prophet513]

why are there so much pro and con about the crank pulley. some say they been running it for years no issue and others say do not ever get a crank pulley, i mean wtf...

I'm right there with you

I want to know more about the people who are dissing it though..
I mean there are lots of brands and price ranges too.

I'r probably just go crank pulley and the dude fron the link i posted (Big Vinnie) seems to know his shit and also has proof with what he's done and he highly recommends it...

[project-D180]

if that was the case they wouldnt sell them at all..the stock crank is balanced pretty well..now a light flywheel is the only thing i kno of that might cause issues so my machinist says

[tapdeznutz]

logically thinking, it sounds more like a high rev issue, i mean we can only rev our engines to 6500 max if you do that, i mean OEM crank pulley is balanced or whatever but even right now when i rev that high i get mad shaking, i would really think adding a lighter crank pulley is just gonna help it rev faster and maybe help with the the vibration. i mean is that is the case why would anyone change out there OEM flywheel for a lighted one. am i making any sense? can i get a hell YEAH.

[Prophet513]

Hell yeah!

[Prophet513]

HELL YEAH!

and now that i have more people looking at this thread... WHERE can i find a tune that isn't going to cost me $400!?

...oops sorry for that double post i dunno wtf happened

[fliprayzin240sx]

Stock crank is balanced, what you're worried about is the harmonics that's produced by 4 bangers. The stock pulley has a dampner on that absorbs the harmonics. But with all that said since 2000, I had a UR mainpulley on my first S14, put it on when the car had roughly 35k miles and KA got pulled out at 110k miles, never had an issue with it.

[project-D180]

if your gonna rebuild your motor just get it rebalanced for around 8500-9000rpm or more n you shouldnt have no issues what u throw at it, n if u you wana bump your rpms up with your tune u can with no fear..

[Prophet513]

For the people who didn't look:

"Aluminum pulley's are efficient at $60 from OBX, or Megan racing (yes thats right folk's I said Megan racing, especially after all the shiat I talk about them). I happen to purchase mine for $40 so you might be able to find one for a good deal. Does an aluminum pulley affect dampening? The answer is NO. KAE and DE do not come with a dampener ( they are low RPM rev engines and useless for having such a large non harmonic half weighted crank). So pulleys are fine."

[project-D180]

never seen anyone run 4-1 headers on a ka before..wana see how it reacts to it an if there is a power gain or loss from using them

[di-devol]

HELL YEAH!

and now that i have more people looking at this thread... WHERE can i find a tune that isn't going to cost me $400!?

...oops sorry for that double post i dunno wtf happened

lol, $400 is cheap man.

[tapdeznutz]

HELL YEAH!

and now that i have more people looking at this thread... WHERE can i find a tune that isn't going to cost me $400!?

...oops sorry for that double post i dunno wtf happened

you know i have been searching as well...seems to be something out there but cant seem to get confirmation or all the info needed. so yeah nistune seems to be the cheapest option at about $500+shipping give or take...sounds good to me, im axtious and nervous about self tuning...scared to do it myself but paranoid not to trust anyone else lol.

[Prophet513]

Try R S Enthalpy. Said my s13 would cost me $400 for the tune which is the best I've found and they gave me a few other tips too

[Matej]

Lightweight flywheel and driveshaft are the most cost effective mods on an N/A KA.

The aluminum crank pulley will be noticeable as well, but it is quite the controversial part. I had one but went back to stock for peace of mind. Plus it kept springing oil leaks. The only aftermarket crank pulley offered for the KA that I would get now is the ATI Super Damper.

[Prophet513]

Lightweight flywheel and driveshaft are the most cost effective mods on an N/A KA.

The aluminum crank pulley will be noticeable as well, but it is quite the controversial part. I had one but went back to stock for peace of mind. Plus it kept springing oil leaks. The only aftermarket crank pulley offered for the KA that I would get now is the ATI Super Damper.

I've heard of lightweight flywheels causing other problems themselves..
and as for brand of crank pulley why do you only trust that one?

and other than oil leaks - which I'm curious as to how bad they were - what about the stock one gave you that peace of mind that you didn't have with the aluminum one?

[Jonathong]

I've heard of lightweight flywheels causing other problems themselves..
and as for brand of crank pulley why do you only trust that one?

and other than oil leaks - which I'm curious as to how bad they were - what about the stock one gave you that peace of mind that you didn't have with the aluminum one?

When my clutch went out i decided to change the clutch and flywheel. Exedy stage one and the fidanza flywheel. I have a fidanza light weight flywheel in my s14 na KA and the response I got after installing it was amazing. It wasn't sluggish when you press the gas anymore thats for sure. Also I had it for like a year now and no problems so far. Also I changed the bolts to ARP flywheel bolts as well to be on the safe side.


Sent from my SGH-T959V using Tapatalk

[Zenki_516]

Most cost effective mod for an NA KA is a different ring & pinion. I run a 4.6, best mod I have done as far as speed goes. And my favorite cam setup is the 240/232. Top end is the same but, you get a really nice low and midrange gain. It's the same cam setup as the Altima.

[project-D180]

as far as oil leaks from the front cover,the seal might not be flush with the outer lip of the cover or u cut a slit into it while installin the pulley..i had that happen to me before

[Prophet513]

I have a rear main seal leak and it's probably gonna be there to stay haha..

Everything seems to be an issue with detail and/or patience with installation?

[Prophet513]

okay if you had to buy one of these... which would you pick and why:
OBX Exhaust Header 91-94 Nissan 240SX S13 Stainless NEW (http://www.racingpartdepot.com/servlet/the-583/OBX-Exhaust-Header-91-dsh-94/Detail)
or
OBX 91-94 Nissan 240SX 16V 2.4L SUS304 Racing Header (http://www.erzperformance.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=OBXNISSAN-17&fb_source=message)
?

[I'm Redline]

OK, I have a question and maybe some detail on exhaust.
Why is everyone so enamoured over 3" exhausts?

The bernoulli effect that governe exhaust velocity, scavenging, and air movement through the pipes, as well as the numbers say any motor with less than 500hp will perform better with a 2.5" exhaust. Even a turbo motor will move more air faster in a 2.5" exhaust with less than 500hp. These are things I have learned are true with V8's, V2's, thumper's(1 jug), and NA inline 4's.
With that said, I ask all of you here, is there better performance for either a NA or a turbo motor with a 3" exhaust system(cat back)? My expereince elsewhere says no. Enlighten me.
I am also interested in the other available cams, intakes, headers, exhausts that are available for these motors too since I may be looing harder at them in the near future

[Prophet513]

Not really speaking on what EXACTLY you were asking but personally I like the 2.5" myself..

Sounds better and is just more reasonable.. Why would you need a 3" exhaust? you don't. It's more than enough

[I'm Redline]

So if you were starting with a basic OEM as delivered car, automatic, zenki with a KA, light road racing(think back roads with bumps and uneven pavement), and DD, where would you put the money?
We know these things work so far:
2.5" Exhaust 'System', to include header, free flow cat
cold air intake such as K&N, Spyder, Apexi, et al
If the car is an SE, 'loaded' and has LSD already do we start with:

Brakes(only 5k on new stock stuff)
Stiffer suspension
sway bars(front and rear)

Tire and wheel size...17" only, what offset, what size tires(consider either same size all around, maybe 235, or 235 F, and 245 R, TUCKED in, slight drop for racy stance, but not streetsweeper 'stanced'

As I said, total newb to 'the car' but not new to fast well handling, quick/fast cars. I am looking for a manual swap later on too, so where ya go for that?

ps not hijacking your thread, just adding questions that work and fill out the conversation as to total balanced performance

[Prophet513]

Should I get a crankcase breather filter?

I was told on the small questions thread that they "aren't recommended" and that an oil catch can would be better.

Does anybody have any info behind this? I don't see how one could hurt at all

[Matej]

I've heard of lightweight flywheels causing other problems themselves..
and as for brand of crank pulley why do you only trust that one?

and other than oil leaks - which I'm curious as to how bad they were - what about the stock one gave you that peace of mind that you didn't have with the aluminum one?
A flywheel mounts to the 'outside' of the engine, so even if it has chips or imperfections in it, which is unlikely anyway, they would not be that big of deal.

However, the crank pulley must be a perfect fit into the opening where it has to fit snugly, yet be able to spin freely at very high speeds and for prolonged periods of time. When I took mine out, it had chips in it, which is what worried me the most. I can only imagine what would happen if it ever got so bad that it would start vibrating or beating around as it is spinning.

The stock one is made out of a much harder metal, so I am not worried about it getting damaged.
Either way, feel free to buy one, I do not really care. :)

[Prophet513]

Haha okay well hopefully for the sake of my 240 and my KA you're wish for the best shows how safe I really am..

but really were the chips bad? and how long did you have the pulley in?
also how long did it take to install? Could it just be something that you'd change?

[I'm Redline]

never seen anyone run 4-1 headers on a ka before..wana see how it reacts to it an if there is a power gain or loss from using them

4:1 no good for mid range. 4:2:1 GOOD. It's called a properly built 'merge' collector' system header. The matching pairs of cylinders are 'siamesed' into one pipe, then those two 'matched' pipes are merged into the collector. What this does is two things. It takes the matching exhaust pulses and places them together. It then allows these pulses to merge into the collector so they cancel out part of the noise(nominally 1db) and enhance velocity. This enhanced velocity, as applied to NA motors, will add along with a mandrel bent system, around a 15%hp gain from 2500rpm, all the way to redline.


Cams: Everything I have read states that OEM cams are 256/256(203/207 @ .050). The best OEM, no more tuning parts way to go is 264/264(Brian Crower Cams... 218/218 @ .050). If you want to run computer mods, and other tuning devices, then the way to go on a KA cam is the 272/272(226/[email protected] .050). The 264 will give a nice bumpy idle, while the 272 will offer a lot more lope..along with less streetability, but a skilled clutch man has no issues with this, ladies, meh, not so true). The benefits of each cam are superior midrange with the 264, a long deep torque curve, and solid power at the top. It also allows a 3.73 - 4.60 rear gear to perform quite well. The 272 will have a larger dip between 2500 - 3200 but will pull hard from +/- 3500rpm all the way to 7500/8000rpm. The 272 will require LSD AND much lower gearing than the 264. The 264, given an LSD and a 3.92 ratio will pull strong from the line and the hit will come around 3400rpm and pull hard to redline(6500/7000).

Compression: Compression is power as applied to NA motors. Pump gas dictates <11:1 compression. Best results will be from 10:1 - 11:1 with proper tuning. Decking the block and head during a rebuild will net a slight rise in compression, as will boring .030 - .040(cubic displacement + :D).
Balancing the central and rotating mass frees up hp, and allows the motor to pull hard from a dead stop. Pully sets free up hp. A good intake adds another 7hp or more. All said, one can build a KA for reliable hp/tq to around 250hp(at the crank) with cams, bore/stroke changes, good intakes, and good exhausts.
A nominal bolt on situation with the milder cams(264/264), intake, and exhaust, wires, plugs, comp tunes, will raise power from the advertised 155hp to around 200+. For a car that gets about 17:1 #:per hp that takes it to about 13-14:1 which is pretty darn respectable, and will pretty much rip anything on the streets from the factory. It will also make a NA Honda look straight silly, as well as anything NA from the other manufacturers.
Now if you take out all the BS from the trunk, swap out the seats for lighter weight seats, get rid of any under insulation or heavy stuff, one can bring the wewight down even more getting closer to 12:1 #:hp

The little KA will perform well. Give it some love and you will smile!

[Prophet513]

so what do you think the KA is capable of without the cam swap?

[tapdeznutz]

here is a thought about light weight crank pulleys and flywheels...does anyone know if the race cars use them. i mean after all they are running there engines for long periods of time in very high rpm and they do not seem to have any problems.

[I'm Redline]

Lightweight flywheels are for race cars that do not need the torque to get off the line fast. Have you ever noticed how all race cars spin their wheels because the motors rev up so quickly? This is the effect of a very light flywheel. On a street driven car, a little missing weight is good, but not too much. Take a 1/2 pound or so off a flywheel and the throttle response is the pay off, as well as a little weight loss(remember horsepower to weight ratio).
BALANCE: NEVER mistake a well fitted crank and flywheel for one that is out of balance. CHIPS, GOUGES, and other imperfections MATTER to BALANCE. If you have a chipped flywheel IT WILL CAUSE BALANCE ISSUES, no good! An out of balance rotating mass will rip the main bearings apart and your motor will suffer catastrophic failure.

NA KA power sans cams: The KA24DE(double overhead cams) makes a nominal 155hp(I think maybe a little underrated on teh specs and possibily a bit over that at the crank). We will use 155hp as a baseline. The addition of an active intake, such as the new AEM that removes digital contamination, will yield an additional 7hp - 10hp(we will say 8 for an average). That brings our little NA motor up to 163hp. We will next add say an OBXR header(we like these, they are 4:2:1, more usable power across the width), a freeflow cat, and a 2.5"(pick it by what sound YOU like...I am liking Tanabe Medallion G, HKS hipower, and especially the Blitz Nur Spec) With the addition of a header back SYSTEM we add another 10% hp across the board. This brings our hp total to 179hp. From here we will add a good set of plugs, bigger wires, a stronger ignition system(AEM, Mallory, MSD, you name it, something with dual fire, rev limit, etc) and a reflash of the computer(I hear good things about Enthalpy). With these simple cost effective bolt ons, we bring our power total to about 185hp. Now I have lowballed the total exhaust percentage because some systems raise overall power by 15%.
185hp isn't a bad figure for a lightweight rear wheel drive car. We all now it can break traction from a dead stop, get a small chirp off the line, etc, with teh 155hp. We now have 185hp to play with. The addition of an LSD, a lower gearset from say OS Giken or Cusco to 4.56(this will give the car a very quick response and allow it to push it's total stock weight to about 145+/-mph).

Lightweight small diameter pulleys: All race cars use these. The lightweight small diameter pulleys allow the motor to free up hp that is going into drag on the motor using larger pulleys. What these do is allow more power to be made at the crank, thus making more transferable power to the ground. Remember, parasitic loss is an average of 22% at the wheels, so your 185hp motor is actually putting about 144hp to the wheels. Don't let this small number fool you though as how it applies to what I call 'Total Performance'. If you have done a good suspension, good brakes, steering, and a light wheel and tire combination, you will feel the car move quicker and it will have a lighter, more well balanced feel. I do the back road thing, so stance to me is what I will equivicate to(using Tanabe's ad as a refernce since everyone has seen it) what the photo of the GF210 offers. The DF series is great for parking lots, flat streets, and cars whose frame rails protect the rest of the underpinnings, but they are simply too low for back roads that have bumps and dips.(but man they do look cool...I LOVE me a zenki turauchi kakko ii desoo, nice tucked wheels, slightly dropped stance, coool) and even the totally stanced hellaflush thing looks kick ass...on flat pavement. But so sorry man, it won't hunt the back roads for long before it's sitting on the side with torn up suspension, crunched up oil pans, and such.
Remember, when one sacrifices total performance for a certain look, that total performance strikes hard at the overall balance of the car. We are all gearheads here to some extent if not totally consumed by all things motor and paint. We all run the same kind of car and we all know they are so much cooler than an ol civic.
Me, I am looking hard at several suspension set ups, a few intakes, and exhausts, ignition components, cams, wheels and tires and all the rest of the easy bolt on things for now. Future though? A nasty NA KA with 11:1 compression, sick road racing cams, a rude sounding efi intake, and somewhere around a nominal 250 - 300 hp on pump gas. I think it can be done without a turbo with the right parts, and the end result will be one seriously twisted sounding banshee of a motor

[nate1]

Im red line u write some massive post that are all wrong. Sorry man, Im not going to sit here and make fun of u you cuz u are new, but read the n/a thread and post from me and project d. As for that hot cam Q its only good for like 6hp so with bolt ons sub 200

[I'm Redline]

Im red line u write some massive post that are all wrong. Sorry man, Im not going to sit here and make fun of u you cuz u are new, but read the n/a thread and post from me and project d. As for that hot cam Q its only good for like 6hp so with bolt ons sub 200

Link? PM to you Nate

I do a metric ton of research and also use my experience with bulilding a few motors and what the do. The big part of building horsepower is matching parts, and making sure flow is good and smooth from surface to surface. I'll refrain from answering further until you enlighten me with your hp figures and parts to get there as I am looking to build good, solid reliable hp and if that is sub 200, so be it, but something tells me that 11:1, hot cams, good intake and exhaust, good ingnition will get me over 200hp on a nasty idling KA. It worked on a Pinto motor block based engine, why not a double cam KA and even more so? That little pinto block with it's one cam yielded 195 on the dyno and had a seriuosly toxic idle. I am only trying to transfer what I have learned elsewhere and apply it to KA's

[nate1]

not all motors are made the same the ka sucks na i have a 12.5 comp with about every bolt on possible and its still slow lol ill post my dyno chart when i get some nice pics of my car taken. but in the mean time heres some great web sites to look at. o and the hot cam swap isnt really worth the time to do. get these cams they got dyno charts if u look down on the page
PDM Racing - Cam Corner (http://www.pdm-racing.com/products/cam_corner.html)
heres some dyno charts
KA24DEvelopment.com :: 240SX Dyno Charts (http://www.ka24development.com/dyno_charts.html)

[I'm Redline]

Dang, not bad, a nominal 185hp at the crank on those charts. Remember adding 22% for parasitic loss from the crank. All bolt on parts and moving from just under 140hp at the wheels to over 150hp which is an at the crank addition of 30hp across. Considering the light weight of the car, that is some sweet performance!

[Prophet513]

you guys HAVE to be missing the original link I posted.

don't forget what a good TUNE can do for the ka either!

[I'm Redline]

Bolt on will get you only so far. Tuning will get you further, but the place where a motor really comes together is when it's built. Port matching the intake and exhaust gaskets for greater flow, and matching any surface where air flows gains those extra few hp.

Prophet, what are the best tuning set ups for these little hot rods?

[Prophet513]

I honestly couldn't tell you. Tuning and ecu's are way over my head :-/

The thing is I know it's one of the best ways to get more out of the KA. Pushing the red line back, removing the top speed governor and getting more power out of your bolt ons too.

[nate1]

for an FR its normally 15% drive train loss, 25% is normal for 4WD.
that chart shows intake, pulley, header, exhaust, cams, and, tuning still only made 163. port matching wont get u 20 whp, these motors just dont make much power, its to big for its own good it cant rev. s13s go faster short shifting at 6k as apposed to its 7k redline with stock cams

[SoBay240guy]

Every one back way up,

a couple of things here

1. Big Vinnie is all over the web with years and years worth of half truths misunderstandings and general hot air....he once suggested using diesel fuel as a gas additive to increase cetane levels....serious WTF territory.

2. I AM Redline has less of an idea than vinnie...all his research says there is stock 264 cams...i wanna strangle this guy his research obviously didn't include anything from nissan, or anyone that knows what a KA is.

This whole thread looks like grown men sitting in the front yard swimming pool, thinking they are in a penthouse suite hot tub with strippers.

I just read 3 pages of the deepest stupidest ignorance I have ever seen...please disregard all the statements made in this thread, really it isn't worth trying to sort the pepper from the flyshit there is just too much bad info and links to worse....

this shit angers me, stupid people spreading stupid all over with no idea of what they are talking about.

[Hywarp161]

^^^ lol i just laughed my ass off. i was reading through all this and couldnt help but feel the same way.

[tapdeznutz]

^^^ lol i just laughed my ass off. i was reading through all this and couldnt help but feel the same way.

im with you. but do enlighten us please...i need to get up and get another beer :rofl:

[I'm Redline]

Every one back way up,

a couple of things here

1. Big Vinnie is all over the web with years and years worth of half truths misunderstandings and general hot air....he once suggested using diesel fuel as a gas additive to increase cetane levels....serious WTF territory.

2. I AM Redline has less of an idea than vinnie...all his research says there is stock 264 cams...i wanna strangle this guy his research obviously didn't include anything from nissan, or anyone that knows what a KA is.

This whole thread looks like grown men sitting in the front yard swimming pool, thinking they are in a penthouse suite hot tub with strippers.

I just read 3 pages of the deepest stupidest ignorance I have ever seen...please disregard all the statements made in this thread, really it isn't worth trying to sort the pepper from the flyshit there is just too much bad info and links to worse....

this shit angers me, stupid people spreading stupid all over with no idea of what they are talking about.

Please do your emminence, enlighten us unwashed undereducated! Stock cams are 256 from what the cam grinders offer, not 264. 264 was the first step up that I saw, and 270+ the tops, unlike a 311 for a V8(using advertised duration vs @ .050)

ps, not my fault there is internet sludge that states untruths on the KA subject, and I haven't seen a book titled,"How to Build a Kick Ass NA KA" on the Amazon racks either, so with that said sir, please bring the knowledge since you are calling and waving your bullshit flag

[Prophet513]

Yeah how the hell am i supposed to know its BS?

I have a ka, can't afford an sr20 swap and would rather not go ka-t right now so i'm thinking of taking this method.

Please feel free to prove as much as you can wrong

[ManoNegra]

"Do not argue with a moron, he'll only bring you down to his level and beat you with years of experience".

this thread is beyond help

[tapdeznutz]

"Do not argue with a moron, he'll only bring you down to his level and beat you with years of experience".

this thread is beyond help

this is what started my day!!!!! couldn't stop laughing for like 10mins :rofl:

[Prophet513]

What I also wanna know is why so many people are on vinnie's side in the thread I shared yet you come here with just about as many posts as I do and I'm supposed to believe everything you say? And you're just right about everything like everyone else no matter what with no proof of your own?

A lot of people on this forum seem to think they're a God or something. I'm not here for your "truths" or opinions I'm here to get info that will help me and by not contributing to the actual conversation of the Naturally Aspirated KA24 then you aren't doing anything but making the thread more "shitty".

So if you DO have things to post and HELP us, (which is what the forums are for) then feel free to post your knowledge on the subject of the thread. If not, feel free to flame somebody else's thread and let us be "stupid" with our own money and cars. Proof helps.

And it takes a moron to let another moron bring him down to their level.

[SoBay240guy]

Please do your emminence, enlighten us unwashed undereducated! Stock cams are 256 from what the cam grinders offer, not 264. 264 was the first step up that I saw, and 270+ the tops, unlike a 311 for a V8(using advertised duration vs @ .050)

ps, not my fault there is internet sludge that states untruths on the KA subject, and I haven't seen a book titled,"How to Build a Kick Ass NA KA" on the Amazon racks either, so with that said sir, please bring the knowledge since you are calling and waving your bullshit flag

if you want to know how to build a BETTER KA, start with the book for building a stock KA, the FSM, readily available in .pdf all over the interwebs.

If you had (or could use one) you would have a real source of stock cam duration, EM-47 in the FSM (YMMV depending on year) states 248/240 duration,

I have built a KA or two in my day, I threw a headgasket and ka24E pistons at a ka24DE and made ~155 WHP with 2x248 cams and 10.7:1 compression (don't believe anything check everything yourself, internets were dead wrong on what compression ration this combo nets, i used a 1.3mm Cometic custom ordered to make it pump gas friendly)

now I guess since I dyno my own cars and have access to all that i need I could just make a dyno sheet up to show ~200 BHP, but then I'd be like everyone else that gets frustrated and resorts to BSing the forum trolls and saying my KA has the secret magic combo that makes all other KA tuners look like morons...

KA's are fun and simple to build it is a great first engine to play around inside, but the worst thing you can do is tell yourself there's 200 easy hp in the motor,

get a spare, get a FSM, get a cheap E-bay rebuild kit (comes with King bearings and Nippon rings, and pistons I swear had to come off nissan retired tooling) you can either shave the head a bit to raise compression or you can get the ka24E pistons if you have a way of CC'ing everything and sorting out the compression ratio (see above about checking everything yourself) either way you'll need JWT cam gears to sort out the timing as changing the centerline of the cams will advance or retard the timing.

But be realistic nissan didn't leave 60 HP in the gasket match or port design

[jspeedm]

I can't believe I read this whole thread.

If you want power, go turbo or swap. If you want NA KA, don't expect much.
It has been beeten to death, to make sr power on a reliable na ka, you will spend upwards of 5k. I run injen intake, Greddy headers, flowmaster cat, custom 2.5 exhaust, nismo flywheel and I make 156hp and 164tq to the wheels. a tune might gain another few hp, but not worth the money. I understand the ka and accept the fact that it has na limitations. so should all of you.

[jspeedm]

and who said the parasitic loss is 22%? It varies from car to car, oil to oil, mileage to mileage.

[datsunnazi]

Subbed for fun

[I'm Redline]

I don't argue with anyone who knows their stuff and as such, concede any disinformation I got from the 'net trying to find out what's what for my Zenki NA KA...going offline with the expert

[Prophet513]

Yeah all of my web research has pointed me in the same direction so that's when I started this thread to clarify and here it is now more than a week after it was started and it's just now coming around that some people are puttin out bullshit.

my plan (with some stupid details) is/was as followed:
seafoam for first time ever, and then
4-2-1 headers
2.5" exhaust
high flow cat
aluminum crank pulley
93 octane
rs enthalpy tune
open intake filter
maybe eliminate scv's
a/c delete
better spark plugs/wires

is it nearly worth the money?

i feel like ka-t could be worth the money if i find parts for the right price but the putting it all together and trouble shooting would put it maybe a little higher than i want to spend right now on my car without the possibility of selling my celica - then comes the 160k mile KA-t reliability question - and thats before wheels/suspension and other minor bullshit and everything else in between

you guys tell me

[tapdeznutz]

bro i was and still am kinda gathering 2nd hand parts for my ka-t as well but stopped for now and decided to just go n/a and see if bolt on's will keep me happy. i mean adding intake/headers/exhaust combo really opens the mid and top end a bit. no real dyno figures just the butt dyno tells me it has balls from 3500 to 5500 now instead of falling flat on its face at 4500rpm. i am excited to get my alum no name crank pulley installed to see how it performs as well...then lightweight flywheel...then lightweight driveshaft...then cam...u get the idea.

but to answer your question i say its worth it for the simple fact that it should not alter reliability versus turbo it brings in more maintenance issues etc. just my thoughts

[jamg]

so to even get around 180whp on a NA KA, exactly what would i have to do?
i would be happy with that much power right now.

[Prophet513]

but to answer your question i say its worth it for the simple fact that it should not alter reliability versus turbo it brings in more maintenance issues etc. just my thoughts

yeah this is one thing i always thought about in NA. although that was back when I thought more power was a little easier to obtain...

my KA-t goals were pretty simple but it's still in the air i guess

[ManoNegra]

I can't believe I read this whole thread.

If you want power, go turbo or swap. If you want NA KA, don't expect much.
It has been beeten to death, to make sr power on a reliable na ka, you will spend upwards of 5k. I run injen intake, Greddy headers, flowmaster cat, custom 2.5 exhaust, nismo flywheel and I make 156hp and 164tq to the wheels. a tune might gain another few hp, but not worth the money. I understand the ka and accept the fact that it has na limitations. so should all of you.

speaks the truth
also from the NA KA stickyk, the motor Sogay240 was referring to:


This is my friends set-up:
SOHC pistons
Cometic HG for 10.7:1 compression
248/248 Intake/Exhaust cams
Head port and polished with stock intake and z32 Ferrera valves (about 2mm bigger than stock)
both the block and head were deburred to remove hot spots
clevite rod cap bearings with ARP hardware
new OEM waterpump and oil pump gear
EGR capped
Swirl Control removed
Coolant to TB capped
RSR 3" Catback
New O2 and Temperature sensors
everything else stock, auto ECU

motor has excellent throttle response and is a blast to drive.
we took it to the dyno last night and frankly were a little disappointed
car feels faster than what the numbers state
we are, however, pleased with the shape of the powerband curve

http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/939/november172009dyno14587.jpg

Nistune and an ITB setup is in the works
also planned for the future when money and time allows are:
exhaust manifold
fuling
bigger MAF
bigger throttle body
bigger cams

the car is running too rich at the moment and we feel that just a good tune
alone would net us some more power.

and Edgar's personal experience:

Mods:
K&N Drop in filter
248/248 cams
DC Sports S13 Header
Gutted cat (dumb, I know)
RSR Ex-Mag (3" piping)
Base Timing advanced 5 degrees
Auto ECU
RPS 6 Puck
Fidanza 14lbs Flywheel

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v293/ArticDragon192/CAM_0232.jpg
~154 whp
~152 ft-lbs
Lemme tell you, this motor was a blast to drive.


Yeah all of my web research has pointed me in the same direction so that's when I started this thread to clarify and here it is now more than a week after it was started and it's just now coming around that some people are puttin out bullshit.

my plan (with some stupid details) is/was as followed:
seafoam for first time ever, and then
4-2-1 headers
2.5" exhaust
high flow cat
aluminum crank pulley - waste of money
93 octane
rs enthalpy tune - I'd go Nistune, you can alsways go KA-T with later
open intake filter
maybe eliminate scv's
a/c delete
better spark plugs/wires

is it nearly worth the money? - that's a question of opinion. ultimately we're modifying cars and most normal people would say it's a waste of money...

i feel like ka-t could be worth the money if i find parts for the right price but the putting it all together and trouble shooting would put it maybe a little higher than i want to spend right now on my car without the possibility of selling my celica - then comes the 160k mile KA-t reliability question - and thats before wheels/suspension and other minor bullshit and everything else in between

you guys tell me

do the basic stuff that will awake the KA and make it more fun and that you can translate over to a turbo build:

248 cams
SR injectors
Nistune
4.36 final drive
~11 - 15 lbs flywheel
obtain a spare KA to rebuild at leisure, it will build character
and most important, don't take anything anyone (including me) says on the internet as fact
do your own leg work, come to your own conclusions


so to even get around 180whp on a NA KA, exactly what would i have to do?
i would be happy with that much power right now.

read this thread:
200whp NA Dyno - Nissan Road Racing Forums (http://nissanroadracing.com/showthread.php?t=1958)

[Prophet513]

Well I don't really have to worry about this anymore now. Might have a free vh45 coming my way

[wangan_cruiser]

you should say MODS PLS LOCKED.

[I'm Redline]

OK, after seeing the dyno sheets, I have a question on the cams. Wouldn't a stouter cam give better numbers? Or, are the hotter cams like the JWT 275 with higher lift and longer duration? Also, is there a reason the KA24DE doesn;t respond to dual pattern set ups, like say a 264/275 for NA?

And WANGAN,:cj:

This thread is educational for those who stay with a decent motor that when in this car has a very nice hp:weight ratio compared to a lot of other cars out there. It staright kills my old 2001 Neon ACR for hp:# and is a lot quicker AND faster on the end(140+ vs the ACR's 132)

[project-D180]

yes a "hotter" cam would/should improve the numbers but with out a proper tune to complement the parts you changed your not goin to see a major "oh sh1t moment" difference in numbers..and to also comment on if the ka like duel pattern cam set or not is yet to be seen.i believe if they made a duel pattern cams with same lift and slightly different duration it would definitly be a snappier engine response with the ka or even running like redline stated a 264/275 ,272/275 set would probaly be mean on the street..even a 248/264