Subframe Bushing Install Problem

[SuperBlackS14]

Started installation of my S14 ES Poly Subframe bushings. A little background: I have a Craftsman Recip. Saw, a propane torch, a small (6 ton) hydraulic press, as well as hammer and chisel, so I should have all I need for tools... Anyways...

I popped out the passenger front subframe bushing... And using project car magazine as a guide, I removed the inner metal sleeve; the one I'm not supposed to remove... And I'd rather not just run with that and use metal bushings... What I need to know is: if there is any way I can get a new sleeve, either from a "new" bushing or someone who removed it all in such a way as to not obliterate it (like I did). Basically any way except buying a new Subframe... Cuz I feel like a retard for not double checking the instructions, and I really wanna fix it even if I just have to burn out a bushing and press the new one in...

Any help is super appreciated. Prompt responses also appreciated. Also, sales offers of intact bushings or whatever help anyone can give.

[270R]

call the dealer and ask em.. I too bought urithane and removed all 4 sleeves lol. now I have DIF aluminum bushings ..

[SuperBlackS14]

How's the Ride Quality? Cuz if it's my only choice... Ugh... Please no?

[SuperBlackS14]

Dealer says he can't get just bushings. Nismo ones may come with it, but are no longer made, but Megan Racing makes replacement rubber bushings along the lines of the Nismo ones; Megan claims 150% harder than OE bushings.

Also they note you need a press to install them. However they do come with the metal liners... But they aren't the exact same as OE liners... Tho I may have to get some and experiment.

[ryandriftingfat]

Can you take a pic of what you mean?

That inner sleeve should wrap around the subframe studs on the frame. So if your new bushings did not come with them, you'd have to get them out of your old bushings, no? If they did come with new sleeves, then no problem right?

Maybe I'm reading your messages wrong though.

I have metal bushings in mine, but when I had rubber, the inner section completely separated from the outer section. I kept those inner section pieces and IIRC they still have metal sleeves in them that I'm not using.

[SuperBlackS14]

1989-1998 Nissan 240SX Rear Subframe Bushing : Megan Racing (http://www.meganracingperformance.com/1989-1998-nissan-240sx-rear-subframe-bushing-megan-racing-pi-232520.html?image=0)

The black section on the outside of the bushing. It's not the metal sleeve you're talking about. It's the actual sleeve that holds the bushing into the subframe.

The subframe has it's outer section, then an inner sleeve, the bushing, and then the center sleeve (for the bolt), I broke the inner sleeve out, the one on the outside of these bushings. I didn't know I needed them for the ES Poly Kit...

[ryandriftingfat]

OK I see what you're saying. Sorry I can't help.

[SuperBlackS14]

yeah, it's okay, I'm going to see if the Megan's can fix it if I broke it. Be sure I'll post results, cuz man would it save some money... Then again I may be the only one who cares, but I wanted to keep the vibrations to a minimum, but still improve handling...

Sorry, I got off topic. I'll get the Megan's and post results later, unless anyone has more info to add

[270R]

yeah those have the sleeve that you need.. a word of advice use WD40 a cold chisel from homes depot and some heavy pounding to remove the old sleeve. no wd40 = dont do it.. GL ^^

[SuperBlackS14]

Thanks man, I'll need it. Posting results as soon as I'm done. Thanks again to everyone who answered.

[SuperBlackS14]

Update: I'm having a hell of a time installing the control arm/toe link bushings. I got the old ones out, and the sleeves out, but I cannot seem to get the new ones to pop in, anyone have any tips on that?

[Promise Land]

Update: I'm having a hell of a time installing the control arm/toe link bushings. I got the old ones out, and the sleeves out, but I cannot seem to get the new ones to pop in, anyone have any tips on that?

Project Car magazine this month shows that they used a long bolt with washers to essentially pull the bushing through the opening. I saw someone else do that (don't remember if it was Zilvia or NICO site).

I took an easier route (maybe dumber, time will tell). I cut them with straight tin snips, curled them in, and used the inner spacer to fill them into the hub. I used a 6" clamp to drive the spacer in. I say this could be dumber as I don't 100% know it will hold up for 100,000 miles. I haven't got my S14 back on the street yet. I couldn't see an immediate danger from the lazy way.

Replacing the Rear Suspension Arms with Isis Performace Arms - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1oMg602CDU&list=UUuZ0aan9kgq2QkCeC0D1lbg&index=2&feature=plcp)

[SuperBlackS14]

Okay: Tips for getting Control Arm Bushings in without a press: you need a table vice, vice grips, lot's of lube and a friend.

One person holds the arm against the bushing and pushes that against one side of the vice, and begins to tighten, when the bushing deforms, your friend should use his vise grips to deform the bushing more on the exact point it's popping out so that it slides in. My friend and I have found this method works quickly and Pretty painlessly.

Also: got the Megan's... Skipping the Poly's... I don't feel like gutting 200 dollar bushings to use ones I'll have to relube periodically. If the Megan's suck I'll gut em, but I don't wanna cut em up just yet

[SuperBlackS14]

Okay, major update!

I just removed the other 3 Subframe bushings/sleeves. If you want to keep your sleeves, or remove them without a SawZall, start from the bottom of the Subframe and use your hammer and chisel towards the top, also plenty of WD-40, thank you 270R for that awesome nugget! Seriously, rear Subframe bushings popped out like it was nobody's business from the bottom. Could probably use a socket and even save the sleeve, but I didn't have the wherewithal to test that, so test at your own risk!

[jperez311]

Does anyone know if i HAVE to burn the rubber? I'm putting in DIF aluminum bushing today. Can i just hammer out the ring with the rubber in it? My neighbor is an old man that cacalls the cops for just making one hammer sound. I dont want him to call for a fire in my back yard. These things are hard to press out. Also will pb blaster work instead of wd 40?

[SuperBlackS14]

If you don't need the sleeves then you can just pound them out, but the rubber inside makes the actual sleeves more rigid and harder to remove, you should at least burn/press or cut out the center piece and some rubber so the the walls cave.

You can try it tho, I'd already removed the rubber centers so... Yeah.

Any penetrating fluid should work, I just used WD-40 for it. PB may not work as well. It hasn't lubed as well for me but is a wizard at rusted bolts. I'd recommend a can of WD-40 from Ace, Lowe's, Ect. They're not that much.

[mr.man.performance]

I doubt you're going to be able to remove to bushing without cutting the sleeve. At least I wasn't able to. But, I didn't burn out the rubber, I used a hack saw and cut it out then used the same saw to cut through the inner sleeve. It was really easy and once that was done the whole thing came out like butter. I don't think you should waste your time trying to remove it without any sort of pressure relief but if you somehow do get it out that way, pass on how you did it.

[SuperBlackS14]

I did get it done without pressure reliefs. I did have a lot of rubber removed but I beat it out from the bottom of the subframe instead of the top. With WD40 and a chisel and 2 pound hammer I got it out without any relief cuts.

[mr.man.performance]

Nice! How long did it take to do one with that method?

[twinspool]

sweet deal now buy the pbm solid subframe risers, install and call it a day.

[jperez311]

If you don't need the sleeves then you can just pound them out, but the rubber inside makes the actual sleeves more rigid and harder to remove, you should at least burn/press or cut out the center piece and some rubber so the the walls cave.

You can try it tho, I'd already removed the rubber centers so... Yeah.

Any penetrating fluid should work, I just used WD-40 for it. PB may not work as well. It hasn't lubed as well for me but is a wizard at rusted bolts. I'd recommend a can of WD-40 from Ace, Lowe's, Ect. They're not that much.
Ok so I did the saw method, I guess one cut wasn't good enough. It just doesn't want to budge out. So I guess I'm going make a few more cuts. It's just being real stubborn. I did take the center out of 3 and most of the rubber is gone. I need a cylinder to similar size to hammer it.

[mr.man.performance]

The way I did it was make 2 cuts about a half an inch apart and pop that piece out with a chisel. Came out no problem

[mr.man.performance]

sweet deal now buy the pbm solid subframe risers, install and call it a day.

^^^and do that... That's a lifetime fix, fo realos

[jperez311]

Pretty much ready to give up. Don't understand how I can possibly take these out. I thought it wouldn't be this hard.

[di-devol]

Don't give up, I stuck a flat head screw driver in between the frame and the sleeve on the bottom side. Took a 5lb sledge and beat it till the screwdriver handle broke, proceeded to beat it some more 'till the screwdriver bent. Eventually it popped out.

No cutting, no oil, but I went through about 6 flat-head screwdrivers lol.

[mr.man.performance]

You need to make sure you're all the way through the sleeve. It's a bit more cutting than I expected an there was always a hump in the middle that I had to redress. You got this foo

[SuperBlackS14]

Don't give up, I stuck a flat head screw driver in between the frame and the sleeve on the bottom side. Took a 5lb sledge and beat it till the screwdriver handle broke, proceeded to beat it some more 'till the screwdriver bent. Eventually it popped out.

No cutting, no oil, but I went through about 6 flat-head screwdrivers lol.

This but use some penetrating lubricant. Also, strike evenly around the bottom of the circle, first 12 o clock, then 6, then 3, then 9, and back to 12... Applying oil occasionally. Took me about 15 minutes per sleeve with this method. I tried the first two with a Sawzall... Went through about 5 blades... And 2 screw drivers... Don't give up, especially of the subframe is already out. It's a PITA but I promise you get a hell of a sense of accomplishment afterwards... Plus your car will handle better!

[jperez311]

This but use some penetrating lubricant. Also, strike evenly around the bottom of the circle, first 12 o clock, then 6, then 3, then 9, and back to 12... Applying oil occasionally. Took me about 15 minutes per sleeve with this method. I tried the first two with a Sawzall... Went through about 5 blades... And 2 screw drivers... Don't give up, especially of the subframe is already out. It's a PITA but I promise you get a hell of a sense of accomplishment afterwards... Plus your car will handle better!
Kinda tryed that. Took the subframe to a machine shop, they couldn't do it because I still had the diff, a arms, brakes on it. The press wouldn't fit. Told me 150 to 300 to remove. In my head I was saying lets go. My buddy has an airchisle. we are going to try this one more time. If not I guesss I have to pay :/

[twinspool]

You need to make sure you're all the way through the sleeve. It's a bit more cutting than I expected an there was always a hump in the middle that I had to redress. You got this foo

^what he said, when I was installing my solid subframe risers I thought how far I cut was fine but you got to cut it more and then once you cut it enough you should be able to take a screw driver and hammer that junt out like nothing. I did the same for the bushings in the rear knuckles. Don't forget that at the top, or bottom, I'm not sure that the sleeve wraps around

[jperez311]

^what he said, when I was installing my solid subframe risers I thought how far I cut was fine but you got to cut it more and then once you cut it enough you should be able to take a screw driver and hammer that junt out like nothing. I did the same for the bushings in the rear knuckles. Don't forget that at the top, or bottom, I'm not sure that the sleeve wraps around

I'm scared to go toooo deep. I cut all the way top to bottom, and bent both lips away and still the hammer didn't work. The air chisel has to work

[SuperBlackS14]

It's easier if the walls buckle... Which, unless you've removed some rubber, probably won't happen. I was able to knock it out using the method I described, but you probably couldn't have used the sleeve over again... I skipped the cutting cuz it took too much time, then again, my subframe was bare because I did all the bushings, and it was easier to finagle empty obviously... Sorry you're not having the same luck.

[inopsey]

lol at the amount of fail in this thread. anyone ever heard of a hydraulic press? im willing to bet it makes removing bushings from tight places extremely easy.

[SuperBlackS14]

presses are expensive. I used one on one of my bushing's center pieces, and it was only a small one. The Subframe is large and unwieldy, I can sympathize with someone poor who can't be hauling around 100+ lbs of steel (he still has his diff, ect. in).

A press does wonders, if you use it right. After I knocked my sleeves out, I brought it to a local shop to press my new ones in. Because my press was too small and I didn't have the "proper" (read: makeshift) tool to press them in myself. Plus I was burnt out on the whole thing by then... Laziness prevailed.

[jperez311]

I finally did it. Finally. I got the rings out and already installed the aluminum DIF solid bushing in and installed my subframe. All I have to say about the ride is .... Damn! My car is so much better

[SuperBlackS14]

Congrats Man

[slydin240sx]

I really need to get mine swapped out with new aluminum ones. My subframe has to much play in it. :/

[redline racer510]

Sorry to thread jack, but the ES poly sub-frame bushings only require to remove the inner sleeve, while the dif aluminum bushings require to remove both inner and outer sleeves?

[ManoNegra]

lol at the amount of fail in this thread. anyone ever heard of a hydraulic press? im willing to bet it makes removing bushings from tight places extremely easy.

so you're just speculating or do you actually have experience?

presses are expensive. I used one on one of my bushing's center pieces, and it was only a small one. The Subframe is large and unwieldy, I can sympathize with someone poor who can't be hauling around 100+ lbs of steel (he still has his diff, ect. in).

A press does wonders, if you use it right. After I knocked my sleeves out, I brought it to a local shop to press my new ones in. Because my press was too small and I didn't have the "proper" (read: makeshift) tool to press them in myself. Plus I was burnt out on the whole thing by then... Laziness prevailed.

I've done this a couple of times
presses aren't the best way to do this, too awkward and a PITA
there's a specific tool made for bushings (look in the FSM) that makes the job cake, THAT is the best way to do it.

I did mine (SPL solids) a few years ago by myself over a weekend
left the bushings in the freezer overnight and used a caliper pad expander with a long threaded rod and washers to pull the bushings with an impact gun.

[inopsey]

yah i have a press; took all of 2 minutes to press out the bushing and put in the new one.
so you're just speculating or do you actually have experience?



I've done this a couple of times
presses aren't the best way to do this, too awkward and a PITA
there's a specific tool made for bushings (look in the FSM) that makes the job cake, THAT is the best way to do it.

I did mine (SPL solids) a few years ago by myself over a weekend
left the bushings in the freezer overnight and used a caliper pad expander with a long threaded rod and washers to pull the bushings with an impact gun.

[jperez311]

Sorry to thread jack, but the ES poly sub-frame bushings only require to remove the inner sleeve, while the dif aluminum bushings require to remove both inner and outer sleeves?

Yea your correct. The s14 has only one sleeve on the rear bushing, then the front bushing has plastic/small metal ring/ big metal ring/ outer sleeve. It was confusing. It seemed like the s14 should have had metal collars already in the bushing from stock. Those things had toooo much gap.

[SuperBlackS14]

I noticed that too... It was a bit odd because Energy Suspension really didn't say that in their S14 Specific Kit/Instructions.