Ca S14 zenki VVL super build

[blackdragon328]

Good day Ladies and Gents,


I keep seeing build threads and this is likely my biggest build to date so I have decided to put it up and see if I can get some feedback. SO yes, I welcome feedback, positive or negative, but please don't randomly trash my thread. If I'm wrong on something, give me proof, or at least explain why, then I can change things as needed and that helps me out in the end.

SO: onto the build. here is the history and then the parts planned for this, some are already in the car, some are sitting around the shop or on their way to it and a few are back-ordered which drives me nuts...but that's life.

The history: I bought the car lightly built from a gentleman in Paso Robles CA, it had some pretty crazy wiring issues but it was rather cheap so I decided to buy it anyway, and tackle the wiring problem on my own (it still drove fine and didnt seem to have any major problems, except upon cold start). the guy who sold it to me said it had over 400whp...I was a little skeptical but it pulled well (I figured at least 300whp) so I decided I'd throw it on a dyno later and see if that was accurate.

After about a year, there started being a little valve tap which pissed me off to no end, so I took the entire head off and rebuilt it with solid lifters and cams from tomei as well as porting it. I also spent some time reworking my interior to make it a little nicer (the result is what I have now) and decided to go with a Power FC (over the tuned stock ECU). I Dyno tuned it at that point and it came out to 347whp with my upgrades which means it probably had 280-300whp when i bought it

about 4 months ago, my oil pump went out while I was having a little fun on the freeway at high boost aaaand that was the end of my motor...almost the entire thing was destroyed, the cams where shot, the walls had scratches on them, the cam journals had crazy grooves in em and there were metal shards everywhere and some bent valves... I only salvaged the solid lifters, valve springs, and the block, which I over-bored to get rid of the lightly scratched side walls. That was when the project began!

background on me, I live in Santa Barbara, there are a ton of idiots with too much money and not enough brains that own very expensive super-cars such as Ferrari, Lamborghini, and Porsche and some nicer ones such as Spyker or Koenigsegg, I decided to tackle the former (for now). So I went to G-dimension and James, the owner, who has been a good friend of mine and my main mechanic/tuner for the last 8 years or so. And I asked him the following: I want a car that can beat high end cars in acceleration from zero-80, and in mid range from 60-100. That's the goal anyway...Then things snowballed, I was told that my brakes where not big enough to handle such power (obviously) so I went with the GTR33 brakes, so for that I needed 5 lug, for the 5 lug I needed new rims, and to fit my rims (-15 offset...didn't choose it, bought em used) I needed a wide-body.
As for the motor, we started to look into viable options, we finally decided to stick with the SR block and then questioned a possible 2.3 or 2.4L SR with VVL. In the end that came out too expensive, so we looked at VVL 2.0L and decided to go that route. That's basically where we are at...we have chatted for over 40 hours on every detail so far and have come up with what I think is a decent plan but I am open to getting opinions and am glad if someone mentions something I forgot as it will only better my car.

we are going to do 3 tunes at the end, a conservative one on 91 gas w/water injection, a max tune on 91 gas w/methanol, and a race gas tune w/methanol and max boost. I'll post the numbers but it looks like we are going to get a good 500 to 600whp which is basically what I am aiming for so if I can reach it I'll be very happy.


Onto the parts going into it:



Shell, 1996 Nissan 240sx S14 (Zenki)


motor:


1998 SR20DET notchtop with a VVL conversion
AEM EMS with wideband


-top end:


VVL heads
ported and polished
ARP studs
Cosworth head gasket
oem rebuild kit
mazworx VVL conversion
mazworx full intake manifold
mazworx fuel rail
bosch 1000cc injectors
Circuit sport FPR
90mm throttle body
Methanol direct port injection


-bottom end:


CP pistons (87mm)
Carrillo rods
ARP studs
Tomei bearings
oem rebuild kit
blueprinted, balanced etc
Moroso oil pan



-turbo/exhaust setup


full race manifold
custom built downpipe
custom built wastegate pipe (all the way to the back)
apexi turbo back
tial 40mm wastegate
Borg warner s256 85ar
intercooler (new one, donno brand yet)
Greddy BOV
blitz boost controller
Zero1000 turbo timer


-Driveline


welded stock diff (will be changed out semi soon)
Exedy dual carbon clutch
DSS aluminum drive-shaft
ISIS short shifter



- other stuff


Koyo radiator
samco hoses
flexlite dual fans
New full harness
AC is being put back in



-Interior:


cusco roll cage (custom cage coming...when I have money again)
Bride buckets
takata harnesses
NRG harness bar
Momo Raptor knob
shifter extension



-Exterior:


AIT 50mm rear fenders
AIT 30mm front fenders
V-speed body kit (to be replaced with a gtr33 kit when I can).
cheap eyelids
Seibon limited edition gold carbon hood (a little flashy but it was a steal and its discontinued now)
6666 rocket bunny wing
Password JDM tow hooks



- Wheels/brakes/suspension


Cusco comp-S coilovers
cusco rear strut bar
GTR33 front and rear brakes
5 lug conversion
K-sport hydro e-brake (looking to hook it up to the stock calipers welded at 45 a degree angle to my gtr33 ones as in a dual caliper setup)
Work Eurolines


-stuff im still looking at buying/doing if I can afford it


Full custom gauge set for pretty much every piece of the motor (I'm only holding off on that cuz I can see it from my laptop/ECU anyway but I'd like it to be more accessible when driving eventually)
OS gikken racing transmission gears
DSS stage 5 axles
replace all A-arms, pillars, rods, and all other suspension components
a good limited slip (no particular brand yet decided)
custom oil catch can/overflow tank
chase bay interior brake relocation kit
chase bay brake booster eliminator
a nice custom cage
ultra racing chassis braces (preferably all of them in preparation for the next step on my car which I will not reveal as I don't want this idea stolen. I can however safely say it may be the first, and definitely will be one of the few s14s in the world to have it. keep your guesses to yourself...I wont answer yes or no to any of them. I assume someone may be smart enough to figure out what it is just dont say it).
oh and the RHD conversion...


I'm probably forgetting some stuff but I'll add as I remember, put up pictures and complete the build.

here are some pics, I'll keep adding em as I go down to G-dimension and take more pics...I know that's generally what people actually care to see.

the car before I put it in the shop this time around
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg97/blackdragon328/theblackdragonjul2011.jpg

my old motor
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg97/blackdragon328/enginebaywithgt28rs.jpg

here is a pic of it sitting at G-dimension (don't mind the integra...it wasn't being tuned, James just got a good deal on it then resold it).
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg97/blackdragon328/IMG_0024.jpg

Rear of it at G-dimension
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg97/blackdragon328/IMG_0021.jpg

whats left of the old harness (we are putting in a new one)
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg97/blackdragon328/IMG_0025.jpg

Took off the front to put on the wide fenders and new front end
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg97/blackdragon328/IMG_0028.jpg

front wide fenders done
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg97/blackdragon328/IMG_0029.jpg

tons of parts sitting in the trunk yet to be installed (AC, 5 lug, subframe bushings, ethanol kit, brakes, window motor & master switch...I know that's random but the ds window didn't work so I figured I'd fix it now).
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg97/blackdragon328/IMG_0020.jpg

my interior as it stands so far (the cage is just in there...not bolted yet)
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg97/blackdragon328/IMG_0022.jpg

another interior pic
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg97/blackdragon328/IMG_0023.jpg


Since a large portion of the pictures are at G-Dimension, and most all of them will be from now on I figured I might as well explain a few of the other cars being tuned along side mine. Most if not all these swaps have been done at G-dimension itself. The Red S14 is an RB25 swap and is being outfitted with a GTX3076 turbo setup. There is a black S14 behind mine which is getting a similar build to mine but scaled back (without the VVL conversion) and they will be running a GTX3576. The miata behind my car is currently one of the fastest miata in its class (some form of road racing...dont know exactly which class, probably unlimited RWD) and is running a GTX28...76? and a very sexy V-mount setup (along with tons of other mods). The Datsun off in the corner got a stock redtop SR20det with a top mount turbo (I think a GT28) and a few other small goodies. Not in the picture but its around the shop, a very crazy looking purple wide-body s14 kouki got an RB26DETT swapped in. Also not pictured is a black LanEvo XI, FULLY, and I mean FULLY built...the guy who owns it travels a ton so its kinda at a stand-still...plus it needs an AWD dyno but its a beast. And lastly, way in the back in Silver is a 280Z also running an RB26DET (converted to single turbo) running a GTX3582R, the same that will be in my build. My build isnt really starting till the 2 Datsuns are finished, which should be some time next week (its also when the motor comes back from the machine shop)...but the other cars will be around.

well I think thats about what I have for now... that took forever to write... I'll update every time I go down to G-dimension, and I'll answer all posts probably 2-4 times a day...

[Big Zee]

the spoiler...remove it


please.

[second_chanceS14]

the spoiler...remove it


please.

i agree, pls take that shit off... your car will thank you :bow:

[Yellow4g63]

Take that cage out before you hurt yourself. If you hit your head on it without the helmet it's not going to be pretty. Get aftermarket valve springs for the VVL head and run the stock cams.

[leung]

Looks like a high end build, why cheap out by getting a circuit sports FPR? I'd get either the greddy, arc, or tomei oil pan. Moroso is good too. I doubt the intercooler you have now will be able to handle the amount of power youre looking to get, esp if you think its an ebay one. And lastly id go with an LSD instead of the welded diff. Just my 2c. But good luck with the build!

[blackdragon328]

lol, I love the spoiler thing...I've had people who absolutely hate it, and people who absolutely love it. I've had debates over that spoiler for ages. but no worries, either way its coming off for the Origin wing, which will look waaay better on this build.

thank you for bringing the cage issue up...I do know it but I need a cage (actually a better one then this, for chassis bracing). I'm going to try to make it slightly better by putting good padding in those places, and im also running low seat rails so I dont THINK I would hit if I crashed but yes...I can potentially hurt myself in a crash if I hit my head on it (even with padding).
Aftermarket valve springs for the VVL?? I had NOT though of that... I do know James did not want to change the cams but I have not asked about the valve springs...any thoughts on the best company for em? Imma start to research it and see what I find.

I've been trying for a high end build yes... For the circuit sport FPR, its actually contracted out to a name brand company and then re-badged (I'll ask my mechanic who the name brand is), he's used em on every mid-high end build he has done, and they work perfectly.
Moroso, that was the oil pan, thanks I couldn't remember.
I TOTALLY agree with the intercooler...I'm curious if it'll make it but I really doubt it. I'm assuming its either going to fail, or going to be too restrictive. I'mma have to go over that with James (owner of G-dimensions) to see if he has ideas on a good intercooler that can withstand that kind of power.
and yes...I want an LSD but its just not the highest thing on my list...I need to save money for potential problems first (like the intercooler).

thanks guys

[josephin510]

Don't use colored loom again. Put that whale tail(haven't used that term in awhile) in a guillotine. Nice build so far keep the updates coming.

[blackdragon328]

Colored loom? you mean the blue crap on the wiring harness? if that's what you're referring to yea that stuff is garbage...that was the last owner's doing. we are actually going to tuck the harness to make the engine bay have a slightly more show like appearance.

[Imarvin240]

agree with what was said above, definitly do a new/stronger valve train setup and maybe try to pick up some P12 cams or go with kelford cams.

[jr_ss]

Invest in a real camera, not your cell phone and lose the wheels... Otherwise, keep it coming.

SuperTech valve train for the head... If you're on a budget, P11 cams will be fine, I'm using them in mine to see what power levels they can support. I'll switch out with Kelfords at a later date..

Good luck...

[blackdragon328]

I did some research and I agree with the valve train. It CAN be done on a stock valve train but would benefit greatly from a much stronger setup and would avoid a possible problem later on. Thanks for bringing that to my attention. The cams on the other hand are going to be expensive and I still need to research. Does anyone have any research done on which cams (or degrees) to run for which power-band?

JR SS: you have a VVL setup? how do you like it? any feedback or potential problems I could benefit from knowing. or just general thoughts on the swap...

also we went with carrillo rods instead of the normal eagle rods because if I understood correctly, the eagle rods cannot support over 500whp. This was Jame's decision (and I trust him so I dont have a problem with it) but I, however, have never used Carrillo products and would love feedback from someone who knows more about them.

Oh, and sorry bout those heinous pictures... they were taken from an ipod and good Lord they suck when they are bigger. I have a camera at home that I shall bring down with me from now on (or use my camera phone...first 2 pics are from there and are much nicer).

thanks for the help

[Imarvin240]

i went with P12 cams on my setup, they are great for mid to high range. you can check out my build thread to see how my setup is if you want.

[blackdragon328]

Imarvin: thanks I will check out your thread.
-OMG!! I just checked your thread and that's....well that's a really sick build. I hope I can get something similar, although I don't think I have quite the cash that you do.
If I can ask you a few questions,
-what degrees are you running on the P12s?
-I also noticed that you were running cam gears, which ones and any particular reason for that?
-I'm intrigued by the external water pump, was it really worth it?
-I'm also interested in the intercooler...love the air to water and I think my intercooler is gonna need changing anyway...was that pricey and is it worth the extra weight/amount of time needed to set it up.

thanks




and another question to the general audience (ima research this as well but if someone knows or has an opinion I'd love to hear it)

do I get Tomei or Supertech valve springs? both are good companies, but since I have not done a VVL swap before I do not know if one is better then the other

[Yellow4g63]

Just get the supertechs. they have 2 different ones get the 100lbs and you will be fine. You don't need to change your retainers either just rock the factory ones (I beat the piss out of my NA VE with those springs to 9000-9400rpms). Also not sure about the eagles not holding 500whp. I saw a local back in the day do 700awhp in his DSM with them. Why don't u just get the BC I beam rods? unless your going for a 1200whp VVL monster. Mazworxs has a good prices on valve springs and the VVL solenoid relocation block your going to need.

[blackdragon328]

okay so to answer each of those
Found some supertechs but I need to figure out some specs for em (coil bind, inner/outer spring OD/ID, net lift...etc etc) I'll have to ask James but yall are more then welcome to give me suggestions of course.

I was steered away from the eagle rods by James and then I spoke with eagle and they also recommended that I go with something beefier then their setup if I was putting over 500whp on my build (they said 500whp was the limit for those rods). The carrillos was Jame's choice...I am going to be speaking with them monday to ask about their rods.

Yes I am getting the VVL solenoid relocation setup from mazworx (along with the rest of the setup. I'mma look at the mazworx valve springs, thanx for the idea.

[blackdragon328]

hmmm...unique opportunity. I have a chance to buy some SR16VE N1 cams from kelford
for $450 (mounted then taken out of the motor, never run) which is quite a bit cheaper then what I have found so far...I'm thinking of doing that with the mazworx springs/retainer combo.

specs on cams:

Intake:
low: 220
high 288

exhaust:
low: 244
high 288

what do y'all think?

edit: actually it looks like what I am going to be adding is the following first. THEN ill go for the cams if I have cash left over.

Mazworx springs
Supertech valve guides
supertech valve seals
supertech 2mm over valves
that comes out to $970.55 as it is.... not sure if I'll have enough for the cams but ill grab em if I do.(comes out to 1420.85 with cams).

[Imarvin240]

-the timing gears are greddy and I got them just to help make sure timing is perfect.
-the external water pump setup was definitly needed for my application (in my opinion). even when the car is off, i can keep the coolant flowing through the engine and radiator so that i can cool it down a bit better. It can flow more coolant then the oem pump can flow. Also, it comes with a pump/fan controller which allows for speed setting with a built in thermastat (can set to change with the temp. of engine) and it can go into basically "overdrive" and push the coolant much faster if it starts to overheat. It costs a bit, but totally worth it since its protecting a big investment.
-the intercooler setup, I went with it because i can get the air temp. down around/below ambient temp. by using the ice box and the intercooler is alot less restrictive then an air to air design (meaning alot more potential power)

[ashtonroche]

Looks decent,

Some suggestions on the motor and i currently have and building up a fwd SR20VE-T using n1 cams as well. Thing about those cams is there is 74* of overlap. They are a very smooth cam and you can run them on stock vvl springs and retainers to 9k in the all motor world but i definitely suggest upgrade springs and retainers for turbo apps. Also leave the stock valvetrain in there. No need for upgraded valves. Unless you want to spend a crapload of time reshimming the valve lash. The vvl is not like the det's. They have solid rockers on a fixed shaft with hydraulic valve lash adjustment like the DET's have. So if you change valves and have valve angles done and so on your gonna run into having to reshim the valve lash and its a PITA if you dont know what your doing. So my suggestion is save the money, keep the stock valves and put in some supertech springs and retainers and be done. Make sure you put every shim back exactly where it came from as well when you dissasemble it. If its too late and they have been mixed up, your gonna have to check valve clearances when you put it back together and probably gonna have to reshim clearances anyways.

With that being said, You need to make sure you choose your turbine housing wisely, The n1's love a large turbine housing and since your using an open scroll manifold Id recommend you at least use the .82 t3 turbine housing, if your using a T4 open manifold id suggest the .81 T4. This will help keep backpressure down low with the high overlap cams. Ditch the cam gears and put stock gears on them and run them straight up. You dont need them.

Second thing, ditch the old style ARP headstuds and go with a set of Mazworx ARP2000 material headstuds. They are properly designed to bottom out in the block unlike the old normal ARP's that dont even use half the available threads in the block and dont bottom out like they should. People have been having problems with head lift with the old arps at as little as 400whp, pulling threads out of the block when trying to remove them because they pulled the threads during the head lift and much much more issues with them such as heavy block distortion because the studs put the load at the top portion of the block instead of the entire head bolt hole and threads.

The mazworx studs are slightly more expensive than the old arps at $200 for the set but well worth the cost, they are stronger and youll never have to worry about your head going anywhere especially with the Cosworth headgasket. Good choice btw, the Cosworth gasket is an amazing piece for the price and i used it on my last setup to 650whp and not a sign of head lift or gasket failure even when i had some heavy detonation due to a fuel regulator issues.

Other than that, the project looks good. Be sure to use SR20VE specific pistons in your build from CP, they have valve notches to allow great p2v clearance. If you used the normal det pistons especially with n1 cams, first time you hit vvl you can kiss your valves goodbye. You can get away with it with the stock ve cams but not on n1's. The Ve specific pistons are a tad more at 509 shipped on ebay but be sure to use them.

Ill keep a watch on the thread to see how its coming along. Looks like a fun build.

[Yellow4g63]

The bigger valves is a good idea to increase flow of the head. Since the stock VE valves are smaller than the DE for N/A to promote velocity. Since it is just the exhaust valves that are smaller you prob don't even need to bother unless your chasing huge hp numbers.

[blackdragon328]

-thanks Imarvin240, not sure bout the intercooler setup yet, its a little costly and very easy to add on later but its true that from the numbers i've been looking at it does have much better potential for a high power setup.
-The external water pump I'mma try for. its not TOO expensive (relative to my build...) and it is indeed protecting a huge investment. I'mma talk to James and see if I can get him on board for that one. I'm going to get it in aluminum though...I like that look better.

-Thanks Ashtonroche, thats some good feedback and some good ideas. I didn't know I would have to re-shim everything (I did it on my last head with Tomei solid lifters...its a huge PITA), I'mma have to ask my mechanic if its worth it or not... I think he sent the entire head to be cleaned up, ported, polished, re-decked etc...so we may have to do it anyway. If we have to do, I'll do the valves, if we dont...I dont know if I really wanna deal with it yet, I might do it next time I pull the head.
-The turbo is a GTX3582R, so we are indeed doing the .82 T3 housing for that reason.
-ARP studs... Thank you, I'm REALLY glad you mentioned that, I had no idea of this issue...I'm going to ask to switch right away and pray that he hasnt ordered em yet. I'mma run the mazworx ones as you suggested.
-I'll ask about the VVL specific pistons but this is far from Jame's first VVL build...I'll remind him just in case but I would be very surprised if he made such an amateur mistake.

yellow4g63, Interesting to know. I'mma see, if I can, it all depends on whether we decide to re-shim or not cuz shimming is a huge pain so if we dont have to I might avoid it this time around and do it next time the head comes off.

thanks guys, keep giving me feedback, I'm continuously doing research on this build and y'all are helping me tons with each comment left.
I'll have some new pics of my parts parts, and hopefully the body kit on the car Tuesday (with a decent camera this time).

[Yellow4g63]

Did G-dimensions move? I haven't been to his shop since 07 or 08 I think.

[ashtonroche]

As for the Eagle rods, Eagle rods with arp2000 bolts which are standard will hole well over 500whp without any issues. There is a guy on the sr20 forum that didnt even bend his eagle rods till over 800whp. Still didnt break just bent. Ive had eagle rods in my other motor for 15k miles now at no less than 450whp, 550whp on race gas on weekends and at the track, then went to the t67 and was putting out roughly 650whp on 35 lbs and the rods, bearings, and cp pistons still look great. Eagles can do 500whp all day long man. I was reving my last setup to 8700 as well on the DE head.

Anyways yeah definitely need to make sure hes using VE specific pistons. If he used det pistons on his last vvl setups but used stock cams he would be fine but if you went with any larger of a cam whether it be, sr16's, sr16n1's,20v, or VET cams you can kiss the valves goodbye like i said. Its already been proven.

Other than that, looking good man. Cant wait to see an update.

[blackdragon328]

Yellow4g63: yes they moved, but not very far. if you remember their old location coming from fulerton, instead of taking a right at the stop sign, keep going straight and its the second driveway on the right (its a really steep driveway) dont remember the exact number its something like 9094? 90940? 9049? rowland st....

Ashtonroche: interesting to know for the eagle rods...I'm a little hesitant since the rep at eagle that I talked to also mentioned a 500whp limit (or at least he said he "couldn't guarantee" anything past 500whp). That doesnt mean they cant go past that (the proof is there since ur running well past that with no problems) but it makes me hesitate. I'mma call Carrillo tomorrow and see what kind of answers I can get out of em and also look into pro VVL builds like the SPEC formula D setup (which just came through G-dimension a few weeks ago for a new ECU tune) and see what they are running.
I'll also make VERY sure to double check that James is using VE pistons for my build cuz I will most certainly be getting more aggressive cams in the near future and I'd prefer to avoid bending valves.

[ashtonroche]

Yeah again, trying to save you some money. If you plan to go quite a bit higher than 500whp then the carrillo I beams might not be a bad idea. Dont bother with the Carillo H-beams as they are no stronger than the Eagle H beams being they are the same exact design, same material, the only thing you can get for the Carrillo rods is stronger rod bolts which help handle higher rpms but if you dont plan on reving any higher than 8500-9k then who cares. If your gonna upgrade over the H beams go with the Carrillo I beams or Manley Turbo Tuff I-beams (a little cheaper but equally as good). There are many honda guys using the Manley Turbo Tuff I beams to over 1000whp without issues and at about 675 bucks shipped for a set, cant go wrong. The carrillos are about another 150 bucks more or so.

Just pointing out some more options for ya.

[Imarvin240]

i had Manley Turbo Tuff I-beams in my last sr build, great rods. yeah, no reason to spend money on the liquid to air intercooler setup if you don't really need it. i really would recommend adjustable cam gears though.

[blackdragon328]

ashtonroche: Thanks, we are indeed going with I-beams and I am indeed looking to go for a slightly higher redline if I can, something like...10-12k ( 12k is optimistic...well see). Also, I'mma ask but James may have already ordered em...the build is supposed to be under way by Tuesday. If not I will mention the Manley rods and see what I can do. I called Carrillo today (only managed to speak to some low level rep...) but, it seems like the I-beams are the better setup...you are correct, the H-beams are EXACTLY the same.

Imarvin240: I want the ATW intercooler but it will come later since its something that I can easily install later without having much work to do.
Cam gears... I have no research done on this area AT ALL, and those are not quite as easy to put in later so yes, I will need to look into this area. Any specific reason why you think they are so needed? You ran Greddys correct?

[Imarvin240]

well you don't need greddy, i have run hks, tomei, and Jim wolf tuning in some of my other engines. they arent to expensive and they allow you to get timing damn near perfect which on a built engine (any engine really) is very important and shouldnt be over looked. oem cam gears can't go as precise as adjustable can gears. plus, if timing is off, its very easy to adjust.

[Yellow4g63]

ashtonroche: Thanks, we are indeed going with I-beams and I am indeed looking to go for a slightly higher redline if I can, something like...10-12k ( 12k is optimistic...well see).

Slow down tiger. You won't need to rev that high lol 9k will prob be the highest you will rev .10k-12k = Dry sump oil setup, leave that for the race cars.

[jr_ss]

You won't be seeing 10-12k rpms that's for sure. You'd need a huge turbo, Hell Mazworx rev's to 12-13k I believe and they have a jet engine for a turbo and custom valve train.

Black, I do have a VVL setup, however it is not running yet. You can check out my build thread here though if you'd like...

SR20VET build up... (http://www.tamparacing.com/forums/nissan-builds-projects/738948-sr20vet-build-up.html)

[ashtonroche]

Yeah your not gonna need to rev to 12k, lol.

Youd be fine to 9k and that would give you a pretty solid powerband.

Im reving my VE-T to 10k but if youve seen the size turbo im using youll know why, lol. Plus im using the stiffer Supertech Springs as well. Still on stock valves, mild port work and port matching. Large T4 divided turbine housing on a non divided manifold. I plan to give myself a powerband from roughly 6800 to 10k. Its a drag car so yeah, works perfectly.

[blackdragon328]

Imarvin: researching it...yes it looks like a good idea and its not tons expensive, but it means imma have to grab some money from my valvetrain..so I have to see where I can cut.

everyone else: lol, I knew I'd get jumped on if I put it up to 12K... I don't have enough research to have a perfect idea but I was really looking for a high revving motor, and it may not go that high since I want a mid level powerband. BUT, thats part of the reasoning behind the carrillo I-beams. Like I said though, no research behind it yet...so I'm just lookin at what I WISH I could do. anyway, reality is im lookin at 9k or so right now. well leave the rest for later I don't have enough research done yet to accurately comment.

I'm goin down to G-dimension tomorrow. I really hope that my block/head will be back or I'm going to be making a very angry phone call to the damn machine shop who has had it for about 2 months now.
I'm also gonna talk to James (the owner and main mechanic) about the advice from y'all and see if he agrees and where we'll modify things.
and lastly, I will take some cool pics.


oh one big question to anyone. what do I look under for VVL parts.... if I remember correctly its the head off of a Nissan Pulsar correct?

[jr_ss]

You look for parts from an SR20VE. The P11 head is what you're looking for. There is a P12, but I don't believe anyone has swapped that head over yet. The easiest route to get everything in one shot would be to purchase an SR20VE swap from an engine importer.

[Yellow4g63]

Some AUS guys have done the swap with the P12 head. I can't remember his name but it's a white 180sx.

[Imarvin240]

some suppliers can get you P12 stuff. On my current setup on my P11 head, I am running P12 cams, P12 cam angle sensor, and P12 valve cover. Everything bolts up no problem.

[blackdragon328]

Hey guys, so I went down to G-dimension today and showed James this thread so we could discuss the suggestions on it.
the primary conclusion is that we are going to build the head...its easier to do it now then later, and it'll make my s14 just that much nicer. it also means we have to reshim everything...which is going to suck. but that's life.
And we are indeed going to use VE pistons, thanks to all who pointed that out.

The motor is not back from the machine shop BUT its done. its just sitting there till we actually start the build (there is a 2 cars ahead of mine that are almost finished). oh...and of course we r gonna have to re-machine the head since its getting bigger valves now so it'll take a second longer, but its still worth it.

in the meantime I just did some small jobs on it like the front bumper, tow hook and such, and we test fitted the rims which barely fit under the fenders. (oh and yes...I know its a weird choice of rim, I happen to like it, at least for now).

and I'm also getting in a couple parts to start stiffening the entire car as much as possible. I'mma try to get some of the ultra racing braces if there is a few bucks left in my bank account once this stage of the build is finished.

lastly, imma go back down there on friday to install the rear bumper and see if the motor MIGHT be back, although I think it'll more likely be there next week sometime. If anything new pops up I'll make sure to take a pic of it.

here are some new pics with a better camera this time.



front end, there is a bunch of dust on the car so it doesnt look its best but thats fine
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg97/blackdragon328/IMG_5553.jpg

test fitting the rims
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg97/blackdragon328/IMG_5561.jpg

a better quality pic of the interior
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg97/blackdragon328/IMG_5555.jpg

Parts waiting to go in

brembo brake setup off an R33
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg97/blackdragon328/IMG_5556.jpg

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg97/blackdragon328/IMG_5559.jpg

Used rear strut bar, not bad looking, decently beefy and pretty light
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg97/blackdragon328/IMG_5554.jpg

stance sub frame bushings to replace old rubber? ones, donno if they are rubber but they feel like it and are worn as hell
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg97/blackdragon328/IMG_5558.jpg

DC sport front strut bar

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg97/blackdragon328/IMG_5562.jpg

[blackdragon328]

Wow gents, well this was a good start and then it ended abruptly when it took FOREVER to get my project going (my mechanic had a lot of work to get done before mine).

here is some new pictures (finally)., they arnt great but they will have to do for now as my camera isnt the best.

here is the head, upside down after we redid the entire thing
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg97/blackdragon328/headdone.jpg

underside of the block after it was all cleaned up
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg97/blackdragon328/undersideofshortblock.jpg

kinda sad looking block with pistons missing
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg97/blackdragon328/nopistons.jpg

block with the vvl pistons in it
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg97/blackdragon328/shortblock.jpg

the motor partially built with the mazworx manifold on it
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg97/blackdragon328/mazqorxmanifold.jpg

long block done
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg97/blackdragon328/motor.jpg

exedy carbon dual clutch (donno why it looks so nice...sadly no one will ever see it)
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg97/blackdragon328/dualclutch.jpg

long block in s14
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg97/blackdragon328/motorin.jpg

we stuck the mazworx manifold on just for fun for a second...it looks gorgeous
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg97/blackdragon328/enginebaymazworxintakemani.jpg


new intercooler...donno what brand (I'll have to ask my mechanic, he ordered it) but if he bought it it should handle the power were looking for
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg97/blackdragon328/intercoolersetup.jpg

a pic of the full widebody setup
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg97/blackdragon328/fullwidebody.jpg

took off the evo wing and ordered a low profile rocket bunny wing, and got some Spyder LED lights on the rear
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg97/blackdragon328/IMG_0268.jpg

in the interest of being able to control a few more things we went with a switch panel....now imma have to find a new place for the radio (probably the glove box...)
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg97/blackdragon328/morososetup.jpg


we also took care of the harness by junking it and getting a new one in there...

so the project is now in full swing. ill try to keep up with updates now that its moving forward.

as always, feel free to tell me anything but dont bother trash talking...I like negative feedback when it is informative.

thanks in advance

[blackdragon328]

I've been playing with transmission ideas as well. I don't know if I really want to keep the SR20 one, but I also dont know which one to get. I wish I had the cash for the OS giken Sr20 trans setup but the truth is...I dont, so maybe....vq tranny? vk tranny? VG tranny?
who has suggestions for me. I know mazworx has a VG tranny kit, I THINK someone has a VQ tranny kit out there...
Imma look this up but im open to suggestions on what works and what doesnt. I do know someone has a mazworx VG kit for sale on here for $500 (w/o driveshaft) right now so im tempted.....

[Yellow4g63]

Mazworxs has a VQ to SR swap too. The VG 5 speed would be easier tho. I can't tell from your pic but does the Intake manifold clear the fuse box with the throttle body on it?

[jr_ss]

Mazworxs has a VQ to SR swap too. The VG 5 speed would be easier tho. I can't tell from your pic but does the Intake manifold clear the fuse box with the throttle body on it?

Their new design is suppose to clear the S14/15 fuse box. I know their first manifold didn't(the one I have in my build. It was their prototype IM for VVL for the masses, previously installed in the blue hatch).

[blackdragon328]

we actually got sent an S13 manifold so we had to send it back, but I'm unsure whether were gonna have to move the fusebox to another location yet. I dont think the manifold will be the problem, I think the 90mm throttle body might be though...but hopefully we dont need to move anything.

I took a look at both the VQ and VG swap. I need to figure out which transmission is stronger but both are viable options. either way with how much cash I need to drop, its going to be a bit, but I want the research done so when I DO get the cash its a full go.

[future]

Vq 6 speed ftw

[jr_ss]

Both transmissions have been known to hold upwards of 1k hp. The Z32 trans has softer syncros and start to show there issues with age. If the trans is freshened up, it'll be good to go for a long time. I believe it also has better gearing for drag racing than the Z33 unless you change your rear end ratio to better suit that transmission. The Z32 transmissions are available for extremely cheap as well compared to the VQ.

[blackdragon328]

hmm, good data.

I have read that the Z33 tranny is not geared right and that it is better to change the rear end. I have ZERO idea how difficult it would be to change the rear end to a 350Z one but somehow....I dont think I care to do it, sounds difficult. on the plus side, they are newer than Z32 ones.

for the Z32s, the problem is that they are older so need rebuilding, but that I can deal with (or have someone deal with...I hate transmission rebuilds). BUT good side, its cheaper, easier, and it seems like the Z32 doesnt need as much modifying to the housing as the Z33.

does anyone know if mazworx runs either a z32 or z33 tranny on one of their cars, since they make the kits for it.

[blackdragon328]

oh and here is the snail inside the car, we placed it in a few days ago and are now working on redoing ALL of the intake and exhaust lines.

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg97/blackdragon328/giantsnail.jpg


one problem with this....the damn exhaust manifold is suuuper close to my master cyl and my brake lines.. I have a turbo blanket going on the turbo, as well as a shield going on the master cyl. I hope that will be enough but as always im open to suggestions

I also dont like where the VVL line setup is (far left), im going to put it somewhere else I think.... I just wanna put the manifold/throttle body on first....then we see if we have to relocate the fuse box and after that I'll see where the VVL lines are gonna be run to.

[Yellow4g63]

I'm going to get a custom exhaust manifold made for mind to put it on the bottom. I hate when the turbo sit so close to the brake MC too.

[jr_ss]

I'm going to get a custom exhaust manifold made for mind to put it on the bottom. I hate when the turbo sit so close to the brake MC too.

Any DET manifold should/could/would work on the VVL head, just some food for thought.

[Yellow4g63]

It will work if you open up the bolt holes so you can adjust it right to match up with the ports. I already have a VE flange for the manifold :).

[smartoss]

You might want to verify those are the correct sub-frame bushings, the off set holes I believe are for putting a s14/s15 sub-frame in the s13 chassis.

[Imarvin240]

You might want to verify those are the correct sub-frame bushings, the off set holes I believe are for putting a s14/s15 sub-frame in the s13 chassis.

you are correct, sir.

[future]

Yes cause I need the same ones

[blackdragon328]

I was looking at doing DET manifold but I opted for a full race VVL one instead. what I dont understand is how full race could make a manifold thats so close to the mc... I would have thought it would have been better engineered.

as for the subframe bushings...that would suck, but I got them new from stance so I guess I'd have to send them back. thanx for letting me know though, I'll take a look into it asap.

[blackdragon328]

a few new pictures, the setup is getting really close to done...as usual its taking forever but thats how projects go. I think were about to hit (or have just hit) the 1 year mark since the beginning of the project. its almost, almost there, just need the injectors (1000cc) the fuel rail (sitting around...cant put it in till injectors), and mainly the aem ems, which we have yet to find for a good price (well buy one new in the end if need be), and were finishing the fabbing of the intercooler piping...once its on the lift and all done well do a quick fab on the manifold to exhaust since it doesnt quite line up right....thats about it

here are a few pics

motor as it sat about a week ago (that stupid black connector is going to be replaced for a V band setup)
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg97/blackdragon328/manifoldnturbo.jpg

90mm throttle body and piping with the V-band setup (I think thats what its called)
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg97/blackdragon328/s14manifoldandpiping.jpg

random side piece, I got bored and stuck an NRG wheel, hub & quick disconnect in it. I went with green to match the Takata harnesses, and also bought a green ball knob in the exact same color
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg97/blackdragon328/nrgwheelnhub.jpg


as usual I welcome comments and all that good stuff. I'll post a video hopefully very soon once its on the dyno...im guessing another 3 weeks to a month and it'll be done (I hope, if all goes right)

[blackdragon328]

I meant a fab job from downpipe to exhaust...sorry, all tired...manifold to turbo...turbo to downpipe...downpipe to exhaust :facepalm: yea sooooo fabbing the downpipe end so it fits my exhaust
and I realized in the pics the VVL lines were not in yet...they should be done now I hope (as long as i dont get any lag from my mechanic... well see on friday).

[blackdragon328]

as with all fridays, I went down to g-dimension again. the piping is all done, the VVL lines are almost all done, the fuel injectors and rail are in and mocked up on the car aaand were working on the relocation of the engine bay fuse box, and just general cleaning up of all the lines and such so that the bay looks all nice.

here is a few (bad) pics....sorry, lighting was shitty today so the pics came out shitty

the fuel rail/injectors mocked up...the rail doesnt actually fut the VVL manifold (damnit mazworx) so we are welding some new bolt up spots for it. on the lower left is the VVL setup, hooking into the upper left on the back of the motor.
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg97/blackdragon328/IMG_0295.jpg


turbo side of the piping (turbo to intercooler)
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg97/blackdragon328/IMG_0293.jpg

manifold side of the piping (intercooler to throttle body)
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg97/blackdragon328/IMG_0292.jpg

and here is the turbo setup, all lines done and a V-band on the intake
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg97/blackdragon328/IMG_0294.jpg


James is saying we will start it up next week (on a stock ecu since the AEM one isnt in yet) to make sure its all working right mechanically....then we have to wait for the AEM ecu to come in so that it can be tuned.... we kinda wanted it done by SEMA but it may or may not be, and it still needs paint too soooo.....well see

thats all for now, hopefully i can post a video of it soon

[blackdragon328]

Oh also.....Im thinking of colors....donno which yet so im requesting suggestions.

it will likely be a dark paintjob and right now im thinking Mercedes obsidian black....

[EsChassisLove]

Absolutely lovely.

Only thing special about my DET head is brand new VVL lifters. Haha

[jr_ss]

Absolutely lovely.

Only thing special about my DET head is brand new VVL lifters. Haha

Uhhh, the VE head doesn't have lifters...

[blackdragon328]

thanx Eschassislove :)

and yes, VE heads dont have lifters. hes not talking about a VE head I dont think Jr ss, hes talking about VVL lifters for a DET head....Im not sure what they are, ive heard of them as something you put into a head to be able to rev higher...possibly some kind of solid lifter?? I donno, just a guess. If its a solid lifter I ran the Tomei ones before my motor blew on this car....great setup but you have to readjust the shims every few thousand miles, and the original shimming is also a pain to do correctly.


anyway, Im still super interested in what yall think of colors....I'd love suggestions on what color to put on this baby...I know I said dark colors but throw something out there and I'll check it out.
If nothing I like better shows up its going to be painted obsidian black (mercedes).

[Yellow4g63]

SR20VE,SR16VE, VVL = same thing. I duno what he meant either, I kinda passed it up as interweb sarcasm maybe I hope. Or maybe he thinks the S14/S15 SR20's VCT is VVL?

[EsChassisLove]

That's my bad. I meant VCT. Derp Derp lol

[blackdragon328]

aaah, gotcha, that makes more sense.

so yea onto them color suggestions if someone has some...

[STEVES14]

hows the car running?

[Big Zee]

the ford fusion black with rainbow flake

its realy nice and you don't really see the flake untill you get about 5 feet from the car.
which stock ecu do you use to run the motor ?

[blackdragon328]

sooooo bit, my mechanic got a track car in (from some team I dont know) so he did NOTHING on my car this week....so I understand it...track car, its got to be running fast so it can go back to racing...still kinda bit.

so I talked to him today n he said that next week on friday, we are starting the S14...it better happen. so unfortunately, not running yet..

as for the fusion black...hard to tell from pictures, Imma go see if the ford dealership has one and take a look at it, thanx for the idea. We are using a reflashed ECU for the intial startup simply to make sure there are no odd noises or anything like that. The VVL doesnt work on that ECU so we arnt gonna rev it or anything I dont think.

[STR8E180]

Some AUS guys have done the swap with the P12 head. I can't remember his name but it's a white 180sx.

must be talking about me :)

[blackdragon328]

damn str8e180, I like the numbers on ur dyno thread, its got me twice as excited to get mine dynoed....

[STR8E180]

yeah i was impressed as well didnt think it would make that much power
our australian dyno's read lower then you guys in the states as well

555kw on 33psi
621kw on 44psi

its pretty responsive as well 300kw is made at roughly 4000rpm

[compactfean]

Can someone tell me why the crank pulley has to be machined 3mm besides belt alignment? Can I just machine the vvl crank collar 3mm and be cool? Not understanding the need for a spacer AND machining the crank pulley.

[2000gtx]

jus got my s14 with vvl head running myself ...if you need some help let me know...i am using p12 cam sensor with chevy coils...

[blackdragon328]

months and months and months of freakin work on this car guys....
sorry I havn't updated in a while...its taken a ton of my time to do this car and I have very little time as it is.

So, after literally month of trying to get all the bugs out of the system we have the base tune done.
359whp at 7500rpm at 14psi boost. Not bad for a base tune. (final tune will be 9000rpm and 18-22psi boost)

right now the biggest problems we are facing are:
1) that the water temp is a little high (102-105) and im not sure what more I can do to cool the car
2) the wastegate is too small (38mm)...easy fix, I need to get enough cash together to buy a 44 or 46mm one
3) the boost controller (blitz) is not good enough, we need one that will work boost/rpm...so same thing, I need to buy a new one.
4) the wheels baaaaarely clear the bbk (by like...less than a cm). I know the calipers are stationary and the wheel should never flex but it still scares the crap out of me so I bought some 20mm front spacers and 25mm rear spacers to fix this. problem is, now I have to go to 50mm front fenders (yaay...more money to spend).

heres all the pics I could dredge up, its not the most exciting thing ever cuz most of the work done was electrical/tuning/other stuff u cant actually see.
I do finally have a video of it revving to 8k rpm (fb link towards the bottom) hope you enjoy that

finally found a rear wing for it that wasnt out of this world expensive and that has a nice subtle style to it (those arn't my wheels btw... I like the FNO1s but this particular set is only on for tuning to clear the bbk properly)
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg97/blackdragon328/Facebook/Mobile%20Uploads/1385471_10151753167565888_887635665_n.jpg (http://s246.photobucket.com/user/blackdragon328/media/Facebook/Mobile%20Uploads/1385471_10151753167565888_887635665_n.jpg.html)

on the dyno
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg97/blackdragon328/Facebook/Mobile%20Uploads/s14%20black%20dragon/ondyno_zps1dac19e6.jpg (http://s246.photobucket.com/user/blackdragon328/media/Facebook/Mobile%20Uploads/s14%20black%20dragon/ondyno_zps1dac19e6.jpg.html)

whooo spacers...
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg97/blackdragon328/Facebook/Mobile%20Uploads/s14%20black%20dragon/spacers_zps96acd517.jpg (http://s246.photobucket.com/user/blackdragon328/media/Facebook/Mobile%20Uploads/s14%20black%20dragon/spacers_zps96acd517.jpg.html)

couldnt get the timing perfectly right for a long time so we took a look around the head again to check things out
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg97/blackdragon328/Facebook/Mobile%20Uploads/s14%20black%20dragon/openhead_zpsaab411d4.jpg (http://s246.photobucket.com/user/blackdragon328/media/Facebook/Mobile%20Uploads/s14%20black%20dragon/openhead_zpsaab411d4.jpg.html)

on the dyno some more
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg97/blackdragon328/Facebook/Mobile%20Uploads/s14%20black%20dragon/ondyno4_zpsdb5267a7.jpg (http://s246.photobucket.com/user/blackdragon328/media/Facebook/Mobile%20Uploads/s14%20black%20dragon/ondyno4_zpsdb5267a7.jpg.html)

closed the hood....doesnt clear the block (see how its all bowed in the middle n doesnt fit flush with the headlights)...still havnt fixed that but well have to cut the interior of the hood out and if that still doesnt work put spacers on the back of it
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg97/blackdragon328/Facebook/Mobile%20Uploads/s14%20black%20dragon/frontendclosedhood_zps3c64d55b.jpg (http://s246.photobucket.com/user/blackdragon328/media/Facebook/Mobile%20Uploads/s14%20black%20dragon/frontendclosedhood_zps3c64d55b.jpg.html)

almost every piece custom made...such a pain to do but very rewarding in the end to know its mostly custom built
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg97/blackdragon328/Facebook/Mobile%20Uploads/s14%20black%20dragon/downpipe_zps5ff4b00f.jpg (http://s246.photobucket.com/user/blackdragon328/media/Facebook/Mobile%20Uploads/s14%20black%20dragon/downpipe_zps5ff4b00f.jpg.html)

hey look...its on the dyno...yet again (these are each different times we tried to make it run properly btw...not just different shots of the same day on the dyno)
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg97/blackdragon328/Facebook/Mobile%20Uploads/s14%20black%20dragon/ondyno2_zpsfeb1abab.jpg (http://s246.photobucket.com/user/blackdragon328/media/Facebook/Mobile%20Uploads/s14%20black%20dragon/ondyno2_zpsfeb1abab.jpg.html)

GTR brakes (gtr 33? 34? dont remember...)
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg97/blackdragon328/Facebook/Mobile%20Uploads/s14%20black%20dragon/brembofronts_zps9beefc1f.jpg (http://s246.photobucket.com/user/blackdragon328/media/Facebook/Mobile%20Uploads/s14%20black%20dragon/brembofronts_zps9beefc1f.jpg.html)



and FINALLY....this is the base map tune. this was our first few pulls with the VVL disabled and 12psi boost. we went back later and did a pull WITH VVL at 14psi boost, which gave us that extra 50whp
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg97/blackdragon328/Facebook/Mobile%20Uploads/s14%20black%20dragon/basetune_zps030b7623.jpg (http://s246.photobucket.com/user/blackdragon328/media/Facebook/Mobile%20Uploads/s14%20black%20dragon/basetune_zps030b7623.jpg.html)

aaaand finally here is the link to my FB for the video of it starting/revving a little. im pretty sure I made it public so I hope it works for yall...tell me if it doesnt.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10151753864370888&set=vb.643305887&type=3


oh...and I just found this picture as well....this is kind of a funny story that happened when we first started the car. my mechanic sent me the pic via phone to prove it happened before I could come down and see it for myself....my muffler expelled its innards due to the ridiculous backpressure in the exhaust....He had never seen this happen.... I have never seen this happen... My mechanic said the muffler was done....I took a glove, shoved my hand in there, gutted the last remains of it n handed it back to him n said "straight pipe" XD and thats how were running the car now and it sound gorgeous (at least I think so). here's the pic for it.
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg97/blackdragon328/Facebook/Mobile%20Uploads/s14%20black%20dragon/exhaustpopsout_zps6d32948a.jpg (http://s246.photobucket.com/user/blackdragon328/media/Facebook/Mobile%20Uploads/s14%20black%20dragon/exhaustpopsout_zps6d32948a.jpg.html)


so there you have it gents... its slowly getting there. for the last 2-3 months we've been working all the bugs out (dreadfully annoying and slow) and now it finally starts and runs so we are now working the new bugs we found with it running.... ill try and keep this more updated... I donno how many more pics I'll have since its again mostly elec work n such.

comments? concerns? things I forgot? am I screwin up somewhere? etc etc...feel free to tell me, we got 2 sets of eyes on this car but its both our first times doing a VVL and this is my biggest build to date so if I'm missin something I wont get offended, ill just be happy if someone points it out so I dont go n kill myself or worse...wreck my car.



CJ

[blockedwizard]

Nice update!! And I would have never thought that could happen to the muffler haha

[Yellow4g63]

Why not put the fan clutch back on and the shroud? also a coolant swirl pot to keep the system bubble free.

[blackdragon328]

thanx blockedwizard.... and yea, I was stunned when I saw that. really bizarre. scared the crap out of my mechanic, he thought the engine exploded or somethin when it happened

4g63, would that work better? a single fan on clutch with the shroud rather than 2 electric fans (also with a shroud actually)
the swirl pot I definitely agree with though, totally did not think of that.....Imma start looking into it, thanx for the idea.

[Yellow4g63]

I had twin fal flex a lite fans on my RB20 before I went to the factory clutch fan. My temps were 204-210 depending on outside weather. I had my fans on a pivot fan controllers, they would come on once the temps got over 190 and were suppose to shut off @ 188. They never turned off unless I shut the car off. With my stock fan clutch and shroud I see temps @ 184 when driving and 195 sitting in stop and go traffic in the summer time. Car runs way cooler with the fan clutch than it ever did with the electric fans.

[blackdragon328]

interesting. Well I'll have to try that then. I'm definitely looking to be more in the 180-198 range so that would be perfect.
I know several companies sell SR20 shrouds in the US now so that shouldnt be a problem to find. I'm not 100% on this but I seem to remember that the KA clutch fan is interchangeable with the Sr (can someone confirm/deny this?)


If I can get a hold of a clutch fan/shroud I'll do a comparison on the dyno at op-temp to see exactly what is gained or lost both in hp (which I know is negligible) and much more importantly, change in temperature.

[blockedwizard]

Ya I'm sure with al that back pressure causing that muffler to separate it made a hell of a noise, on the clutch fan I loved running the stock shroud and clutch fan on my old sr, would never have temp problems. Got stuck in 3 hours of dead stop traffic one day and thought I was going to be screwed. Not even a hiccup. Wasn't making serious power or anything as serious as you are but from what I've heard from most people with alot more experience then me you can't go wrong with the stock setup.

Anyway love the build!!!!!!!!!!!

[rbs14kouki]

If you go back to clutch fan ! Make sure you Use a sr20det water pump not the ve one .

Gktech makes a realy nice fan (flows more) to replace the stock one



And what is it under your valve cover just in the back of your cam gears ??? Id that a guide?

[Yellow4g63]

RBS14 it looks like a cheat type tool to make sure they have the cam gear timing right would be my guess.

[blackdragon328]

blockedwizard : thanx :) im not a huge fan (ha...pun intended) of how the stock shroud and fan look but if it works better... that's whats goin on there.

rbs: were already running and SR water pump but yes indeed. and ill definitely look into the GKtech fans, thanx.

and yes, 4g63 is right, the weird looking metal thing under the valve cover (well not under but that we were using with the valve cover off) is just a cheat tool. I think we were using it to keep track of where the old timing was so that even if we screwed up the new timing (dropped chain or something) then we'd have the old marks... I wasn't there when James finally got the timing right but I heard it was a massive pain.

anyway... here is the final tune for now. I will need to get a new boost controller (likely an AEM running off the ECU) and a bigger wastegate (likely 50mm) before I can tune it again. However at 500whp I need to change the fuel setup to a dual external pump anyway so I'm going to wait a little, save up and do all 3 of those and get it retuned sometime down the line.
as it is, James says I need to drive it (which I will likely do for the first time within the next few days:2f2f:) because its already "powerful enough". I want to push over 550whp out of this car but I can see the wisdom of getting used to it at 450whp before moving up (fastest car I've owned was previously at 337whp no vvl.....so this will be good jump already).

heres the latest dyno sheet on it.
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg97/blackdragon328/Facebook/Mobile%20Uploads/575723_10151762158220888_1223677557_n.jpg (http://s246.photobucket.com/user/blackdragon328/media/Facebook/Mobile%20Uploads/575723_10151762158220888_1223677557_n.jpg.html)

[Yellow4g63]

very nice pump gas power, make sure you have some good rubber on your wheels or it's going to be a scary ride.

[PoorMans180SX]

Very solid build so far sir, engine looks fantastic.

Have you installed those subframe bushings yet? They look like offset bushings made to put a S14 subframe into an S13.

Also, what does your wastegate tube off the manifold look like? I'm assuming it's a single gate. Is it divided all the way up to the very face of the flange? I am led to believe, by your dyno graph, that it is not and is costing you significant spool time with that turbo.

Why do you say you need a larger wastegate?

I am very jealous of your FN's also, haha.

[blackdragon328]

thanx! yea, definitely pump gas for now. I have no E85 stations around Santa Barbara and I dont want the extra hassle of ordering big drums of it or something.

and yes, I dont remember quite what I have on there. I know I'm running 10s all around on the Eurolines. I think 255 (maybe 245s) rears and 235 fronts. the fronts are currently falkens and the rears are federal rsr's if I remember correctly. I'll be switching over to something a bit more grippy as soon as they are dead tho (which probably wont take long)

[blackdragon328]

poorman:

thanx,

yes, subframe bushings are WRONG!! I'mma sell em off I guess cuz its been so long since I bought them I doubt they will take them back.

right now the wastegate tube runs down as a small tube. I'd like to make a 1.25in exhaust pipe running all the way to the rear tho. makes it sound nice and looks intriguing.

well, right now we dont have a boost controller...so the the turbo is spooling very slowly anyway. but no, its a 1st gen full race manifold which was not split. I'd absolutely love to upgrade but its not my priority atm.

I need a bigger wastegate (unless the boost controller fixes it) because we are getting boost creep.... we WILL try the boost controller first, then changing the spring...but ultimately I may need a new wg

and lol, those are nice FNs but they arn't mine.... they are just on for dyno. actually I was looking at the pics and found that James took them off the customer's car next to mine (I hope he asked the guy). its a nice one too...kouki s14 with an SR similar to mine but with no VVL.

[PoorMans180SX]

poorman:

thanx,

yes, subframe bushings are WRONG!! I'mma sell em off I guess cuz its been so long since I bought them I doubt they will take them back.

right now the wastegate tube runs down as a small tube. I'd like to make a 1.25in exhaust pipe running all the way to the rear tho. makes it sound nice and looks intriguing.


Right on man, it's going to blow your mind when you fix the tube! Looking forward to more updates.

[madserv]

Subscribed good project..

[Drift_FX]

blowing out the innard on a muffler is common in motorcycles because the packing inside will wear out and they need to be repacked.... weird to see on a car though... my vvl s13 build is almost done as well.... good luck man. keep the updates comming!

[rwtf]

blowing out the innard on a muffler is common in motorcycles because the packing inside will wear out and they need to be repacked.... weird to see on a car though... my vvl s13 build is almost done as well.... good luck man. keep the updates comming!

lol my first s13 did that.

[blackdragon328]

thanx guys

drift fx: interesting... never heard of repacking an exhaust but I like mine straightpipe anyway.

rwtf: cool, im glad im not the only one where the exhaust went all stupid XD


small update: I should HOPEFULLY be driving the car for the first time thursday or friday this week, maybe even driving it home if im lucky and everything works well. I'll put up a video link either way.

[blockedwizard]

Nice I'm sure you're excited :naughtyd:

[blackdragon328]

yes indeed, super excited.
Ive been driving it on and off for two weeks now. its amazing but needs some serious suspension tuning...doesnt handle anywhere near as well as it should at the moment.
also....the power sits a little too high in the rpms for it to be a good touge car now....kinda sad but I have my miata for that anyway and I dont really wanna take this car out too much since I would hate to even nose it into a canyon wall.

Ill put some more pics up asap. Since its been home the cage was installed as well as a few other small things, strut bars etc, and I started the sound system as well as the conversion from all plastic interior parts to fiberglass, which is entertaining but very time consuming (and now im itching all over...hate fiberglass for that).

still kinda looking for color options...right now it seems like I will be doing a very very dark metallic blue or purple (almost black but with a tinge of blue or purple in it)...but im definitely still open to suggestions.

[Snatch'D Factory]

Very nice build up!

[Lockiess15]

Can't see correctly but how much torque is this making off that dyno sheet?

[blackdragon328]

Thanks guys!

right now im driving it with 453whp and 301tq to break it in and get used to it a little.


I also just found a second AEM 320 fuel pump so I will be doing my dual pump setup as soon as that comes in.

I've ordered a new carpet in midnight blue so that will be installed as soon as it comes in. then I can permanently put in the roll cage.

I've also started to set up a system in it (I know some of you will not appreciate this as much but this isnt a track car, its my weekend/show car so yes, its getting a good setup. I'm not gonna go too crazy on it but i'd like good sound).
the Kenwood head unit has been installed (navigation/dvd/etc)
as well as kenwood front speakers and sony rear (might change those rears out again...quality is not up to par).
I'm running all 4 speakers off of an earthquake speaker amplifier.
aaand I took out all the stock wiring and have replaced it all with JL audio wires (this was a massive pain in the ass to do btw)
heres a few new picsI have sitting around.

installing the aerocatches (scary as fk to cut into my carbon hood)
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg97/blackdragon328/Facebook/Mobile%20Uploads/1471210_10151796416500888_892864225_n.jpg (http://s246.photobucket.com/user/blackdragon328/media/Facebook/Mobile%20Uploads/1471210_10151796416500888_892864225_n.jpg.html)

heres them installed
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg97/blackdragon328/Facebook/Mobile%20Uploads/1471361_10151828986300888_556450422_n.jpg (http://s246.photobucket.com/user/blackdragon328/media/Facebook/Mobile%20Uploads/1471361_10151828986300888_556450422_n.jpg.html)

coil of RCA wires, ready to be wired in
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg97/blackdragon328/Facebook/Mobile%20Uploads/1453352_10151775029370888_1995444182_n.jpg (http://s246.photobucket.com/user/blackdragon328/media/Facebook/Mobile%20Uploads/1453352_10151775029370888_1995444182_n.jpg.html)

the first of the 2 aem pumps for the dual pump setup
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg97/blackdragon328/Facebook/Mobile%20Uploads/1378435_10151774712605888_406487753_n.jpg (http://s246.photobucket.com/user/blackdragon328/media/Facebook/Mobile%20Uploads/1378435_10151774712605888_406487753_n.jpg.html)


aaaand because I know this was mildly boring compared to some of my other pics here's a few pics of the miata i'm currently building for time attack and endurance

starting the v-mount
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg97/blackdragon328/Facebook/Mobile%20Uploads/1078641_10151576876165888_1737380171_o.jpg (http://s246.photobucket.com/user/blackdragon328/media/Facebook/Mobile%20Uploads/1078641_10151576876165888_1737380171_o.jpg.html)

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg97/blackdragon328/Facebook/Mobile%20Uploads/1082134_10151579207515888_1050588321_o.jpg (http://s246.photobucket.com/user/blackdragon328/media/Facebook/Mobile%20Uploads/1082134_10151579207515888_1050588321_o.jpg.html)

we'll be raising the wing just a little more than it is now to let it catch the air coming off the hardtop but this was the mockup
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg97/blackdragon328/Facebook/Mobile%20Uploads/1049187_10151547003210888_907903065_o.jpg (http://s246.photobucket.com/user/blackdragon328/media/Facebook/Mobile%20Uploads/1049187_10151547003210888_907903065_o.jpg.html)

[Lockiess15]

So your current tune is only an under powered tune for practice reasons? Not actually something that's tuned to it's full potential with what modifications you have?

[blackdragon328]

thats one of the reasons yes... theres a few reasons why we havn't done a full tune yet. the biggest being that I want to break in the motor slowly, so I'm going to do about 800-1000 miles on it so all the parts properly break in to each other.

the second is that I wanted to be able to drive it for a while to work any possible bugs out of the system before trying to push as much power as possible. which was smart cuz we found a few small things here and there.

third, yes, I wanted to get used to the car.... VVL is pretty violent and i've never dealt with it before, I get barely a second and a half (literally) between 6k and 9k and the full 460whp at the same time...its very different from a smooth 300whp power curb on a gt28 or gt30 so I'm happy to play with it for a while and really get used to keeping it in the power curb before going to more power. I'm not in a hurry honestly... I'd rather take things slow and not make a mistake

and 4th... also a big reason, James needed to move the car out of his shop for a while....we still need to install a few things and of course retune to really make the final tune work well and he'd been working exclusively on this car for about 2 months and I'm not really paying him much other than for parts...hes mostly doing it as a friend so he was hinting at the fact that he was going to make a good 400-450whp tune and leave it at that for a bit so he could go make money...n I dont blame him.

I'm happy to have my car back for now (my DD has been a mix of my harley and a honda insight...the harley is fun but its not a car and the insight is well, kinda boring) 450whp is fun, ive also been working on the s14 nonstop since its been home and im going to send it to paint soon. Once all the interior/exterior cosmetic is out of the way ill send it back over to James and we'll finish the motor and tune. That'll probably be march or april I think.

[inopsey]

i need to pay more attention

[TheRealSy90]

Why are you running Vband couplers only in the engine bay, and t bolt couplers underneath? And why such a small hot pipe coming off the compressor housing to the intercooler? Looks like 2".

[Lockiess15]

Ah I see. Well now that you've explained it to me it makes much more sense. I was just curious as it seemed to me that it was under torqued. But that explains why

[Yellow4g63]

Why are you running Vband couplers only in the engine bay, and t bolt couplers underneath? And why such a small hot pipe coming off the compressor housing to the intercooler? Looks like 2".

The small pipe off the compressor housing goes through the factory intercooler pipe hole then expands. I did the same thing with my S14.

[blackdragon328]

the V-band couplers were more of an esthetic touch than anything else...it isnt really needed. I could do a v-band setup on the rest of em... sounds kinda cool actually, thanx for the idea.

as for the big to smaller hot/cold pipe yellow4g63 just explained it properly, it runs down to the stock hole on the intercooler and thus I have to go from a bigger pipe to a smaller pipe, it puts a little more strain on the system but I dont know an intercooler that runs 3.5in holes.