I know a lot of people here may be anti-domestic cars but...

[Krunko]

I wish I had a new Trans Am w/ Ram Air.

It's one of the baddest meanest looking cars on earth...if not the most...  It's like it's just screaming...

"I will rip off your nuts."

[gregshin]

funny i always like that car....would rather drive that then any camaro even tho its the same car or mustang

[DSC]

I agree, they look really mean.  I drove one just this past summer, it was pretty fast.  Just couldn't get over how huge and heavy it felt though.

[SaintlyCharBoy]

i kinda always thougth that they looked too much like they had nostrils, like you should put a ring in the nose like a bull

oh well

[zephyr]

im sorry but to me they look like they're too dressed up...I like the simpler design of the camaro.
But you have to give them respect for being hella-fast...

[mike240]

yeah but if you're gunna spend that much on a car, why not save up a few more thousand and get a corvette Z06?  those are mad fast.

[tnord]

Seriously, how hard is it to make a car go fast in a straight line?  Other than the Z06 and maybe the mustang cobra R, that's the only thing that domestics can do; go straight.  How difficult is it as a driver to go fast in a straight line? It's not.  Until the domestics find a way of making a car faster other than a bigger engine and fatter tires, i will not be impressed and will not buy one.

[MyFirst240SX]

Any body read superstreet? saturn just intoduced a estimated 300hp turbo car.  looks like the same old gay saturn to me tho.  

[crazycuban]

i think thats a little bit of a stereotype...its not like all imports can handle the twisties great, and its not like all domestics can't.  in sport compact car a couple months ago they tested a mustang gt and an integra type r on a circuit.  the mustang won by over a second.

...and a corvette z06 will not only beat most cars in a straight line but also on the road course.

[sspikey]

liek any car on the market if done right can be a great car. take for instance nissan 240SX who would ever think that it could be fast? i remember seeing my neighbours when i was young and laughing at it. now i respect it. as for the saturn story. car makers change sometimes.

[onebadm5]

something about THAT pic that always makes me feel giddy about going fast in a straight line.
http://www.supercarstats.com/car/concept-images/chevrolet_camaro_zl1.jpg

ohh, look, A CORNER!
http://www.fantasycars.com/derek/cars/images/chevrolet/camarozl1_2.jpg

hehe
http://www.fantasycars.com/derek/cars/images/chevrolet/camarozl1_3.jpg

(Edited by onebadm5 at 11:40 am on Jan. 21, 2002)

[whateverjames]

A skidpad rating of .99g on the 300ft skidpad for the Z06 sounds like it can out handle pretty much any import, and that's with street tires.

[FastNissan]

I know that my landlord's Camaro SS can handle better than my car, and he has 485 RWHP with the 6 speed manual, that car is awsome.

[tnord]

FastNissan-of course it handles better, it's 10+ years newer and has tires 2x the size of yours

whateverjames/xHdriver-if you read my previous post i excluded the Z06 from the typical domestic stereotype, even though it is still a big car

crazy cuban-stereotypes don't just pop out of thin air, they exist for a reason, as far as the Mustang GT ITR comparison goes, i would hope that the GT won, it has 75 more hp? with more than 2x the displacement, and road courses contain straight's do they not? let's compare a cavalier Z24 and an Integra GSR and see what happens, nevermind the ITR

[whateverjames]

i know, i read your post. then i ignored that you put Z06, then i said the Z06 handles good, read your post again, then forgot to edit. hhehe ehhh. oh well......i screwed up

[thewholefnshow]

As an ex neon owner, I hate the saying that domesitcs can't handle... I could out handle any civic on the road, once I put the stress bars in, the thing was on rails. And you won't find a 4cyl with a flatter  torque curve then the neon either... and with the drag applications they are making for it... it will be a serious force to recon with. As for the Firebird and the Trans Am, they are beautiful, and I have seen some street races between a pontiac firehawk and a viper rt-10 out in calgary... something you have to see to believe really. There are a lot of American cars that are handing imports there colective asses and at a fraction of he cost, but granted the overall build quality is still the one thing that is left to be desired... but that is just about the only thing. There are a lot of rumors flying the neon and the lancer will merge in 2005 to make a car... a 250 hp neon that will sit under the mitsubishi umbrella... oh and onebadm5 you shouldn't have used that as an example, that camaro had what 750 hp, and blew something up on test day, and the mustang it was against did a 2.4 0-60, but blew 2 engines that day...

[Zexel]

if I had the money to go buy a TA Ram Air, I most definately would.  my friend owns one, well his dad does, but he kind of bought/borrowed it off of him for so long, it's practically his now.  anyways, that thing is mad fast and it puts your stomach in your throat.  straight line or not, it's fast as F.  and it can handle some corners, not the best at it, but it can handle them.  the only thing is, he has never gone into 6th before.  he's had the car forever, and not once has he gotten into 6th.  weird.  and he's got a 2001, so that's pretty much a new one!  but I would too own one if I could, same goes for the Cobra and SS, and Vette for that matter.

[crazycuban]

the gt doesn't have 75 more hp...i'm pretty sure the gt only has 225 (i'm proabably wrong) compared to the ITR's 195.  the GT is also a lot heavier though...
and thewholefnshow is right about neons.  vipers run with nsx's.  the reason a lot of domestics don't handle as well as a lot of imports is simply the fact that they're different kinds of cars.  the cavalier is no comparison to a gs-r.  just because it's the same price range doesn't mean it has the same purpose.  the cavalier is definately not designed with sport driving in mind.  
sure, there are import super-handling cars.  some that come to mind are the nsx and the skyline.  on the other hand, there are imports that aren't great handlers.  corollas, for example, are a more apt comparison to the cavalier.  ####, toyota even sold the cavalier in japan.
the mx-6 was sold as the probe.  the corolla is the prism.  the cavalier was sold as the cavalier in japan by toyota.  whats the big difference?  yeah, hondas handle great, but they'd do that regardless - nowhere do you see a car that cheap with a formula-one derived suspension.  the celica is a cheap car that handles great, but shit, that was designed here, and it's powertrain is going into the pontiac vibe.  mazda is fuckin owned by ford.  nissan is french.  who the #### cares?  the corvette c5-r, saleen s7, and viper own lemans gt - bmw is just getting into it with its m3 gt-r.  do these racing teams pick the skyline?  the supra?  the rx-7?  the nsx?  no, they chose domestics.  
who really gives a shit anymore...i don't really understand my post either, but i guess thats really what it means.  its all the same in this era of big corporations and shit.
and btw, in the ITR-mustang GT battle you can say "yeah, but there are straights on road courses".  well then whats ur point?  having a car that is only good cornering is just as bad as one thats only good on straights.  it takes a well balanced car to be fast on roads, and on road courses.  and the mustang GT was better balanced, period.    

[Krunko]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from mike240 on 11:31 am on Jan. 21, 2002
yeah but if you're gunna spend that much on a car, why not save up a few more thousand and get a corvette Z06? those are mad fast.
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

Trans Am's are like 30-33k...vette's are like 45-50k I believe.

[Krunko]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from thewholefnshow on 1:33 pm on Jan. 21, 2002
As an ex neon owner, I hate the saying that domesitcs can't handle... I could out handle any civic on the road,
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

A monkey riding the back of a great dane could handle better then a civic.

[rabbit23]

krunko i spit water out of my nose when i read your reply. the gt's are listed at 260 hp at 5600rpms.

[DSC]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from crazycuban on 2:36 pm on Jan. 21, 2002
...nowhere do you see a car that cheap with a formula-one derived suspension. </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>I was under the impression that f1 cars didn't have a suspension...just a bushing.

[Takumi]

I laughed so hard on Krunko's reply that I started coughing. o_O

[crazycuban]

i have no idea about now, although that doesnt make too much sense to me...i'm not talking about the shock-spring, that may be a bushing, i'm talking about the geometry, the double wishbone design.

[wyldchyld7x]

I was gonna jump right in here with some great opinions of my own having owned and abused both imports and domestics, but then I read krunko's reply and barely stopped laughing long enough to type this.

[DSC]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from crazycuban on 4:12 pm on Jan. 21, 2002
i have no idea about now, although that doesnt make too much sense to me...i'm not talking about the shock-spring, that may be a bushing, i'm talking about the geometry, the double wishbone design.
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>Ahh, ok. &nbsp;What kind do we have in our 240's?

[crazycuban]

we have mcpherson strut up front, and multi-link in the rear. &nbsp;the mcpherson strut isn't the best, but then again, thats what porsches and bmws run up front. &nbsp;the multilink in the rear is the same-type setup that the skyline/300zx runs in all four corners.

[crazycuban]

heres a good explanation of suspension types DSC...

www.bath.ac.uk/~en8djw/sus1.htm

[DSC]

Cool, good info *bookmarked* thanks

[keepitmovin]

What you guys need to do is stop thw whole domestic vs import thing. They are all cars and thats it. Just think of it as a supra vs rx7 .....shoot respect the cars abilities and not just where it was made....

[KoukiS14]

Steve Millen tested several sports cars in a recent mag I have. . I think it'd Road n Track Sports Cars n GT or something. . . Anyway, about the Cowmaro, he said he feels like he can drive it all day around the track with no prob... &nbsp;The Vette, he said can be done but it's physically painful haha. .

I don't care though. . if I liked pieces of shit, I would have bought one, but think of it this way... my 97 240sx has 86k miles on it... With NO problems (cept for that weird thing the screen on my stereo does haha)

A &quot;friend&quot; of mine has a 95 Z28 with less miles, and needs a new TRANNY!!!!!!!! &nbsp;it's also missing a bunch of wheel studs lol... &nbsp;

I dunno. . &nbsp;The numbers don't lie, but the 240sx is more of a driver's car. . and in my opinion, that's much better than numbers.

-Rob

[Tuck&Poke]

the only thing that keeps me from buying a domestic is that the insurance for a camaro a firebird a mustang or a corvette is reduculous. &nbsp;especially for me. &nbsp;i was thinking about a 91 mustang 5.0 but when i talked to the insurance guy i said forget it. &nbsp;it was like over 2grand every 6months. &nbsp;i know the 240sx has high insurance but its more reasonable. &nbsp;but #### i would really like a big displacement v8. &nbsp;the raw power that you can make from them for so little money is insane. &nbsp;my friend spent 2gs on his car and its running mid 12's &nbsp;i have to spend like 7g's to do that with my 240sx

[240 2NR]

The firebird still has that plasticy GM?pontiac look with the worst #### bparts bin interior of any manaufacturer. &nbsp;Never ridden in one, so I can't compare except for the 6cyl ones.

Even the vette which is such a nice car and looks so nice on the outside, still has that lame GM interior. &nbsp;I HATE those things. &nbsp;But then again, the seats on my S13 suckass. &nbsp;What were they thinking? &nbsp;The early fullback S13 seats were so much nicer and not tweed! &nbsp;All the more excuse to hook up a MOMO or sparco.

[Krunko]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from rabbit23 on 3:17 pm on Jan. 21, 2002
krunko i spit water out of my nose when i read your reply. the gt's are listed at 260 hp at 5600rpms.
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

I'm confused...the GT what's? I was talking about vettes, camaros, &nbsp;and civics.

[Krunko]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from rabbit23 on 3:17 pm on Jan. 21, 2002
krunko i spit water out of my nose when i read your reply. the gt's are listed at 260 hp at 5600rpms.
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

Nevermind, I misunderstood your post..I thought you were disgusted at something I said but apparently you just thought it was funny...kind of like in elementary school where there's that kid who can shoot milk out his nose when you make him laugh, and then everyone makes him laugh cause they like him shooting milk out his nose.

i guess the GT statement was a whole seperate comment.

[The Punk Genius]

I like domestics, in fact one of my dream cars is my fathers 1965 427 sideoiler Cobra SC.

0-100mph and back to 0 in 11.7 secs.

[tnord]

Alright, i'm gonna put up one more post in response to crazycubans rant.

A cavalier z24 and a gsr are competitors, they are both FF, 2 doors, 4 cyl, and the same price, tell me how they are not competitors. It's just that the gsr is such a better car people don't even think about it as in the same class as the cavalier.

Yes the NSX handles incredibly well, i've never driven a skyline, but i don't know if i'd put a 4000lb+ car in the same category.

The whole MX-6/Probe thing, mazda designed the drivetrain for the car while ford did most of the work for the B-series and ranger. I would by no means call the probe a ford.

As far as mazda being owned by ford; let's not mix this up. This isn't a GM overseeing chev/pont/buick/olds deal where they make one car and rebadge it. Ford is the primary owner of mazda and provides funding, THEY DO NOT make/design/engineer mazdas. It's the same with nissan, renault just gives them money and structural support in the business sense. Sure they &quot;encouraged&quot; platform sharing to up profits, but the design and drivetrain is still up to nissan. Do you consider Bridgestone an american brand of tires?

Regarding you're statement of of domestics being used in the LeMans series; of course they use domestics, i assume what you're referring to is the American LeMans Series. Just as in the European LeMans series all you see is cars from Europe. Let's see who dominates F1/CART; Honda, toyota, ferrari, BMW, MB. Gee not one domestic. What about the IRL you say? Well that so called Aurora engine that wins all the time wasn't even made by GM, they had some european engine maker do it for them. And by the way, that Cadillac that did so well in ALMS i think, that wasn't GM's powerplant either.

In conclusion, i find it pathetic that the big three have to use engines 2x the size or more to be competitive to the overseas companies. And all the time they still have bad build quality. Why isn't GM making the F-body anymore? Because they're junk after 50k miles. GM needs to stop building cars (excluding Z06) and do the one thing it does well, trucks. Now the mustang Cobra and Cobra R, that's a different story, it's obvious that i don't like domestics, and i feel with just reason, but that is a fast car in all aspects of the word.

(Edited by tnord at 10:54 am on Jan. 23, 2002)