Shifting without clutch

Some people here drive without using the clutch, right? I tried it yesterday and I guess it's something I can get good at with enough practice. I'd just like to know how likely it is to damage something by doing that. Is this something worth learning? Or will it inevitably break something? Also, any tips on shifting without using the clutch?

[MK]

First tip- get rich or have friend whos a mechanic.
Second tip- get an auto and a mega huge stall convertor
Third Tip- get a number in your mobile for a tow truck.

What dies,
Usually the sycromesh on the gears which will give you a nice "CRUNK!" sound when you shift normally above 5000rpm or under mid boost.
Then after that the flywheel can sustain damage and gets its teeth knocked clean off, chipped or if your really lucky maybe it'll just buckle and disintergrate!
What else, the differential, it'll sustain shock along the entire driveline and probably shred under high rpm launches, but it'll probably whimper a bit first if its an LSD and one side wont engage properly under power.
Them little driveshafts down to the rear wheels can shred inside the hubs, makes a nice "VRRRRRR!" sound you wont be able to ignore.
Thats assuming of course that you just dont shred the gears through 1-5 and end up reversing home.

As much as we hate a gearbox that gets slippage under peak boost, they are designed to be the weakest link in the drivetrain for a reason. It stops expensive shit getting utterly farked <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

[yenpit]

mk's right....brutal on a trans! chances r u will break it.

[ca18guy]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from danio on 2:48 am on Jan. 23, 2002
Some people here drive without using the clutch, right? I tried it yesterday and I guess it's something I can get good at with enough practice. I'd just like to know how likely it is to damage something by doing that. Is this something worth learning? Or will it inevitably break something? Also, any tips on shifting without using the clutch?
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Would'nt be cool if they made tranny's were you did'nt have to use the clutch <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'> Oh yeah they do... there called automatics.

[drifterx]

also they have sport shifts.. i believe they were available on the eagle talon before.....

why dont u get a A4 or something with tritronic... (i cant spell)

[AceInHole]

if you rev match properly you can shift without the clutch extremely smoothly.

[S13 Passion]

yeah... each gear has a specific rpm range where you can shift without the clutch right?

stop being cheap, get a sequential tranny,!!
lol, just kidding, but shifting without the clutch is very dangerous and just lowers the life expectancy of the tranny

[rabbit23]

my g.f. just bought the 2002 jetta 1.8t auto with the triptronic automatic, it is pretty tight. you can drive it like a normal automatic or you can choose your shift points. if you don't shift it will shift for you at redline. no clutch, just a movement of the shift lever. it takes .2 seconds to shift and is pretty smooth.

If you have a piece of crap five speed practice and get good with it before you try it on the 240 because if you do it right you can shift without any wear on the mission.

[240meowth]

i think merc benz made a clutchless manual, so you get perfect shift eveytime, it's hydrolic or somthing

[Tuck&Poke]

thats bmw with the cluchless manual. &nbsp;it on euro m3's as a 6g option. &nbsp;no thanks get me a six speed. &nbsp;also if you shift near the redline the clutch is almost open so you can shift clutchless. &nbsp;you wont fuck up your tranny because f1 cars always shift like that. &nbsp;its faster. &nbsp;just dont try to do a clutchless upshift if your like at 5,000rpm &nbsp;you will screw some serious driveline components up.

[yenpit]

keep in mind ur talkin about hi-quality german engineering and F1 cars. if u are learning to shift that method there is a high potential to damage something. beware. u heard it here.

[thewholefnshow]

Like ace said... if you have the balls the best way to do it is to go out on the highway and bring your car right up to redline, then as your revs are coming down, tug very gently, don't ram it into another gear, at a certain rev range you will feel it open up and slide right in... it is not a precise science, &nbsp;but it works and I have done it, and seen it done without ever damaging or clunking or anything like that.

[DuffMan]

The triptronic isn't any better than a regular auto, it still has a torque converter that zaps away power. The ability to give you the ability to shift it yourself is pretty much worthless since a computer can do it better anyway. The advantage of stick isn't that you shift yourself, it's that a clutch is much better than a torque converter (well a normal street torque converter anyway).

The exception would be the F1 style paddle shifters that Ferraris have, because those actualy have a computer controlled clutch. There might be a coulple other super cars that have a similar system, but the tiptronic on Porsche's and the Mercedes system is really no better than a regular automatic.

[Tuck&Poke]

you can tell when its ready. &nbsp;if youve ever pulled the shifter when your not pressing the clutch you can feel it push back so you wont change the gear. &nbsp;if its at the rpm itll glide smoothly with no drama

[Arcane]

isn't it called power shifting...my bro knows how to do it and it seems like he doesn't mess up the tranny...you don't even here a &quot;crrruunkkk&quot; when he shifts...although you do feel that nice jerk and tug when you hit the next gear...all you have to do (like everyone else said is find the right rpm range)...if i remember right, there is a post here that lists the rpm for each gear...

[tnord]

F1, Tiptronic, and all others are sequential transmissions, far cries from standard 5sp. &nbsp;F1 cars do not use clutchless shifting in the manner that you described, it is the same that is in the 360, a computer controlled clutch and gear engagement device. &nbsp;And seriously, unless you're a race car driver, there is no need for clutchless shifting.

[HippoSleek]

ha ha - I've driven an old VW Bug w/ a crash box (i.e., no syncro) tranny. &nbsp;You gotta be CRAZY to do that!! &nbsp;(although you DO learn a lot about rev matching as the clutch doesn't do near what you imagine it would!) &nbsp;

Anyway, I'm with the &quot;not unless it came that way or you have a $10M budget and will be rebuilding it w/n the next 250 miles&quot; crowd. &nbsp;It's just stupid. &nbsp;Learn to be as fast w/ your foot as you are w/ your hand.

[Zexel]

nah Arcane, power shifting is where you keep the rpm's at the same rpm as you did before you shifted, so lets say, 3rd going into 4th, out of 3rd you go from 4500rpm's, well you would wnat to keep that at 4500rpm's while you were shifting into 4th, at least it goes something like that. &nbsp;that is power shifting, and its' a bitch on your clutch, burns the #### out of it at those hiiiiiiiigh rpm's.

[chickenmanq]

You just have to know your car. &nbsp;I only use it if my slave cylinder goes out, or to impress babes. &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'> &nbsp;IT WILL NOT HURT YOUR CAR!!!! &nbsp;Just don't jam it in gear and make it grind. &nbsp;Match the rpms, and it will slip right in. &nbsp;No damage whatsoever. &nbsp;By the way, the old 1930 model A's didn't have synchros, and my cousin has one that still runs on the original tranny, and it's a farm truck no less. &nbsp;If you want more thorough instructions, email me.

[JeffNJ]

Oh, it's all your fault. &nbsp;All of you. &nbsp;I am going to try this now, and if it's fair of me to do so or not, I'm going to blame everyone here when I f' up my car. &nbsp;Sigh. &nbsp;I just need to see for myself if I can handle it; that's all. &nbsp;I'll, of course, let everyone know what happens.

[Nismos14]

can u do this with first grade?

[Drift Style S14]

My slave cylinder when out on me once while driving. the whole shifting with out the clutch thing is really easy and its not as bad as everyone thinks. its only bad when you fuck up and grind gears.

[burgy240]

First of all don't ever compare anything we drive to an F1 race car. &nbsp;The tech in one of those is gross!!! I love those things. &nbsp;Anyway, the only tiptronic/auto/electronic shifting that really works well is the F1 from ferrari. &nbsp;Audi's seamless automatic that will be on a few of the euro spec cars next year is going to be the closest thing to seamless shifting and power ever. &nbsp;With some fine tuning they may actually design a seamless automatic w/o the powerloss of most. &nbsp;That being said even that isn't perfect.....not that a 5 speed is either but there is a reason that the clutch is in every manual car(even race cars). &nbsp; The RPM ranges that make clutchless shifting possible don't make you go any faster. &nbsp;Since you don't gain any from it why put your car through that abuse?<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'>?? &nbsp;Power shifting is when you shift gears and don't lift your foot from the gas. &nbsp;you still clutch and switch gears but you maintain RPM's by not taking the foot off the gas. &nbsp;You may ease the pedal as not to run to redline between shifts but you don't actually disengage your foot from the pedal. &nbsp;In the end..........Why would you ever want to shift w/o the clutch unless you have an electronic gear box(which cost more than I'll ever afford as a mod)?<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'>

[s15dude]

The best part aboutt he new M3's SMG is the launch button that you use while racing. It revs the engine and drops the clutch and automatically shifts into 2nd. Then you shift with the paddles like regular. Plus you can put it in &quot;automatic&quot; mode. Old Ferraris had a system before the &quot;F1&quot; shifting, where a solinoid did the clutch for you whenever it felt the shifter move. This was done so that Ferrari didn't have to put a &nbsp;automatic in their cars.

[White240sx]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from ca18guy on 7:50 am on Jan. 23, 2002
Would'nt be cool if they made tranny's were you did'nt have to use the clutch <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'> Oh yeah they do... there called automatics.
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Or crash boxes...Strait cut dog engagement gear sets and trannies are available for the Silvia. They will let you bang out clutchless up shifts and down shifts, only need the clutch to start off. You will need $10k and a high tolerance of screaming gears to get one though.

5Zigen's TMCS uses a button and another ECU to work as a clutch. You basically push down the button and it will electronically depress the clutch allowing you to shift into gear, then you just let the button back out.

[AceInHole]

heh... all this debate over people like me too lazy to always use the clutch. &nbsp;if your timing is right you can do clutchless shifts EXTREMELY SMOOTHLY and quickly. &nbsp;I guess maybe I'll have to get it on video or something.... maybe I'll gumtape my left foot or something like that, LoL. &nbsp;
Anyways, 30k miles and still going strong on the S14 (and who knows how many miles on my S13). &nbsp;The tranny is STILL in tip top shape.

[gfisch]

Yeah, its real easy to do smoothly. Ive done it a few times just to see if I could. All you have to do is pull it out of gear, make sure its at the right RPMs for the gear your shifting into at your speen,l and gently push the shifter in. It will pull itself right in if you mathed the RPM's right.
Dont really see why youd want to do it though, except just for the #### of it or to impress someone. Its not any faster, not much easier, and can fuk up you tranny if you do it wrong.

Greg

[AceInHole]

LoL.... when you commute so many miles daily.... smooth clutchless shifting becomes a necessity

[SaintlyCharBoy]

personally, i'm too #### chicken to try, but i know a hand full of truckers who basically preach that clutches are for those who don't konw how to upshift

about it not being worthwile to &quot;powershift&quot;, that's not precisely true, you don't get the power lag, that you have when the clutch is in, doesn't much matter on a normal everyday street car, but in an all out race or a truck accelerating, it makes a huge difference

besides it's #### cool to watch somebody go through 8+ gears without clutching <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

[Danio]

This is of course not useful for racing, not with the 240SX transmission anyway. It's just a trick I wanted to know, and yeah, show off. :] Either that or get laughed at if something breaks. To the guy who said you feel the car jerk when you do that... It felt like an automatic to me. Like AceInHole said, it can be extremely smooth. Anyway, just wanted to know you people's opinions on it. Thanks.

[Grant]

I agree, the clutch is there for a reason, lol

[Tuck&Poke]

its just a neat trick to do not realy nessecary. &nbsp;although i am gonnna need it because as soon as i get a roll cage and money im gonna road race. &nbsp;its true f1 cars are disgusting with all theyre technology and they do have an automatic clutch &nbsp;(fastest shifting in the world) &nbsp;anywho they do clutchless shifting alot in the german racing with the... oh dammit whats it called. &nbsp;anywho theyre sequential manuals but they still got a manual clutch. &nbsp;btw why the #### would anyone want str8 cut gears?

[AceInHole]

I never said I go without the clutch during spirited driving..... &nbsp;but if you take a puck in the back of your left leg.... or if you're just tired... it's definitely useful. &nbsp;

[Nismos14]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from Nismos14 on 8:48 pm on Jan. 23, 2002
can u do this with first grade?
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wat the fuck was i thinking?? i meant first gear

[JeffNJ]

Hehehehe..

It works. &nbsp;It works!

Ok, so I tried this whole clutchless power shifting thing the other night, and what'd'ya know - yeah, it works. &nbsp;And, it's easy. &nbsp;And, it really, I mean really, doesn't seem as if it would be the least bit harmful to the car in any way. &nbsp;It also doesn't seem like it would be that useful either. &nbsp;But, it's a neat trick, and it works. &nbsp;It's kinda fun. &nbsp;Not too much else (for now?).

[AceInHole]

with a real powershift you'd see how much it could hurt the tranny <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'>
you're just doin regular ol' clutchless shifting