some KAT developement news

[AceInHole]

some of you have read my dyno thread, and might have actually read the part where my manifold is leaking (for the nth time). Over winter I've decided to just scrap the log manifold and go with a tubular one. In my constant effort to do things cheaply and effectively, I figured I might as well go through with something I've been thinking of doing all year: using an SR manifold.

The idea is this: take a tubular SR manifold, cut the flange off it, and weld on a KA flange. This is all dependent on if the port spacing is the same, and if the ports are the same size.

Well, my friend has an SR and a spare exhaust manifold gasket, and i've got my old KA header:
http://www.engr.uconn.edu/~corrales/carsIM/KAvsSRportspacing8.JPG

it looks as though it'll end up being perfect with a little modification. Just need to torch the SR manifold piping and square it off (using a vise or something similar) to match the KA ports, which should end up being nearly perfect.

So:
Ebay manifold: $150
KA flange: $50
Welding: should be able to get it done for like $50 if you can't do it yourself (or don't want it to leak).
T25 to T3 adaptor plate: $25+ additional welding or drill/ tapping to bolt it to the T25 plate... only necessary if you're using a T3, eh... i most likely will not :p

That gives the KA guys a $250 tubular manifold, which should mount a turbo in nearly the same position as an SR. Just use an SR downpipe and O2 housing and you're pretty much set without having to custom fabricate too much stuff.

[weirdstyles.net]

nice, FAQ worthy.

Albeit welding is strong, but do you know how much it could be pushed before it would split the weld?

[HaLo]

Ace? Do you need a SR manifold? If so, I'm sure I can arrange one for cheaper than 150US!!!

PM me!

[mbmbmb23]

Sweet man!!! I used to kick this idea around but people would just be like "why do you wanna use a cheesy SR ebay manifold".

Heres some links I've collected that may help you out.


http://www.mrgasket.com/c-seal.html
http://www.jgstools.com/turbo/trbmnf.html
http://lovefab.com/
http://64.225.76.178/catalog/inst_accessories.html



Also...I have a PDF file that had tons of different manifold gaskets pictured...to scale (as far as I can tell). Anyways, heres my comparison JPG. The ports are very similar and the port measurements are listed below each. With a little work you could port match the pre-welded tubes to the flange, you may have to slightly bore out the flange....or cut one of the tube runners and rotate it a degree or so. Hope this helps.

-m

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid91/pe3cecdde7a50853a40a3809faa9e77da/fa5a7abe.jpg
PS - Those are my "red lines" that I created in Photoshop, so they are probably not very exact...but it does give an idea how they match up.

[AceInHole]

the above pic doesn't really look true to scale.... from the actual gasket laid over the KA header the port spacing is pretty much exactly the same. also, the SR gasket has slightly larger ports it seems than the gasket depicted (although early SR's had smaller exhaust ports than newer SR's, USDM at least).

Halo: YES! as long as it's tubular and bottom mount :D


Also, I just realized that you could pretty much get any SR manifold as long as it's tubular and fit it to a KA flange, which gives you a lot of choices for whatever turbo you want to run :D

[mbmbmb23]

Something to keep in mind. Most of the $175 dollar ebay (SS Autocrome??) SR tubular manifolds dont seem to have a place for an external wastegate.

Keep us posted and good luck.

-m

[HaLo]

Originally posted by AceInHole

Halo: YES! as long as it's tubular and bottom mount :D


Also, I just realized that you could pretty much get any SR manifold as long as it's tubular and fit it to a KA flange, which gives you a lot of choices for whatever turbo you want to run :D

Damn... I misread you. I can get and stock cast sr bottom mounted manifolds...

Btw, most cheap ebay tubular manifolds crack within a month or two of usage.. :(

[GoKu]

Ace You are my Hero ! ...acutally I've been tinkering that idea since last year for my U13 KA ....
Good Find~!

http://www.jgstools.com/turbo/trbmnf.html


^^ 1 CNC exhuast Flange

1 Tublar SR manifold

= 1 Nice manifold for half the price ...:bow:

[No Motiv]

good man

[mbmbmb23]

Originally posted by AceInHole
..............also, the SR gasket has slightly larger ports it seems than the gasket depicted (although early SR's had smaller exhaust ports than newer SR's, USDM at least).




Please elaborate? Smaller ports?? is that Redtop VS Blacktop or Redtop VS S15 Blacktop??


You may be right tho...I just remembered that that gasket pic I posted MAY be SR20DE.


-m

[kazuo]

You guys might wanna talk to knightryder (name is spelled incorrectly probably). He's a big KA guy and he has actually suggested to more than one person on this board to take a SR20DET manifold and weld the KA flanges onto it.

I think he may have done it himself before, but don't quote me on that. He has a lot of experience turboing KA motors and he knows his shit.

Search in this forum for it too, I think he posted about it....

[Jeff240sx]

After that, you'd be + or - 2 inches or so with sr IC piping too, wouldn't you.
-Jeff

[AceInHole]

i would think the throttle body placement would be the main concern, but yeah, it should place the turbo pretty close to the stock SR config. add an adaptor plate or extension between manifold and turbo and it'd be bang on (can't be more than an inch, would be my guess).

Assuming it works, I guess you could use any SR intake or exhaust peice from the turbo and beyond.

[AceInHole]

Originally posted by mbmbmb23
Please elaborate? Smaller ports?? is that Redtop VS Blacktop or Redtop VS S15 Blacktop??


You may be right tho...I just remembered that that gasket pic I posted MAY be SR20DE.


-m

I'm talking about USDM SE-R engines. Not sure of any RWD SR differences..... but even then, port spacing is the same throughout.

[HaLo]

Ace, would you like to have the stock cast iron SR manifold or you would prefer the tubular one?

[Jeff240sx]

Originally posted by AceInHole
i would think the throttle body placement would be the main concern, but yeah, it should place the turbo pretty close to the stock SR config. add an adaptor plate or extension between manifold and turbo and it'd be bang on (can't be more than an inch, would be my guess).

Assuming it works, I guess you could use any SR intake or exhaust peice from the turbo and beyond.

A plus for your idea: Yay! exhaust pieces. Also, the s14 KA-T people have been using s13 fmic cold piping for a long time now. You'd just need to fab the hot-pipe, which doesn't come in kits anyway.

A minus to your idea: What's wrong with a top-mount turbo? I'm running a sr20det 3" Trust downpipe running into my exhaust. I'm also running 2nd hand FMax fmic piping, all of it, on a RevHard manifold with a straight T4. FMax kit uses a side-mount manifold with a t3/4, and everyone I talked to said it wouldn't work. It lines up perfectly, I just had to extend the hotpipe by 1", which was a hacksaw and a silicone connector.

-Jeff

[AceInHole]

Originally posted by HaLo
Ace, would you like to have the stock cast iron SR manifold or you would prefer the tubular one?

to tell you the truth... i'm not really sure if I could even use the stock SR manifold. 2 bolt holes would make it impossible to make an adaptor plate for it.... and welding a steel flange to an iron manifold may not be worth it.

i guess it depends on how much it'll cost.

PM or e-mail me: [email protected]

[HaLo]

I'll get informed... I have a few friends that have a coupe spare here. I'll see how much they want for one. :)

[knghtryde]

Shoot I didn't realize there where actually so many KA guys out there. I had almost given up on it. Me and my brother are both running KA24ETs.

[ryan hagen]

i had thought about it too but didnt want to risk the money trashing like 250$ worth of stuff to do it. one of my friends is trying to find away to use teh sr coil on plug igntion on a ka. since our distrubotrs swap over and our ecus can run them witrh tuneing he dosent understand why we cant use their stuff. i through the wrench in though that the spark plugs boots for a sr are probally too short. he never had the money to find out if he could do it.

[ryan hagen]

heres a custom manifold i found on ebay.....lol
check out the manifold in that guys engine

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33742&item=2447758670

[mbmbmb23]

Another site that sells alot of decent looking turbo flanges/etc is:

www.atpturbo.com

they have pics also...so you know what you are looking at.

What I want is an adaptor to use an SR downpipe (with that triangle flange) with a T4 vband outlet..




-m

[mbmbmb23]

Originally posted by ryan hagen
heres a custom manifold i found on ebay.....lol
check out the manifold in that guys engine

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33742&item=2447758670


So much for equal length runners. Looks like everything fits tho. You can buy those unassembled log manifolds at that jgstools.com site I believe.


-m

[phrozen]

the manifold in that pic on ebay is hilarious... looks like a bunch of plumbing "L" and "T" pipes welded together.

[RedlineRacer]

Damn, you stole my idea. I was going to do buy an SR manifold from SS Autochrome on ebay and weld the KA flange to it. I just don't know about fitment. Are you going to do a top mount turbo setup, or bottom? Would it hit the hood if you did a top mount?

[ass15]

any updates with pictures will help me a lot ! because i've already purchased my some of the turbo parts . . . . . form sr engine

[ass15]

?

[kaje36]

Ace has been helping me with my turbo project, and I thought I would help prove his Idea. I have the flanges and the SScrome mani, I am just waiting on my 35mm wastegate flange that I am gonna ad in to weld it all up. the flange should have been here by now, so I am guessing no more then 2 weeks and you guys will have some pics. the only issue I could see would be how the SScrome is designed with there runners being oblong and the KA holes are more of a square. but I think finding a good fabricater would solve this problem.


Mark

[ryan hagen]

Originally posted by phrozen
the manifold in that pic on ebay is hilarious... looks like a bunch of plumbing "L" and "T" pipes welded together.

lol it is thats why its so funny..lol home depot can sell unassembeld manifolds?