How are modded 240s tuned? I never see a dyno sheet in the for sale section.

[mx597turbo]

I'm coming from the LSx, world so maybe things are different. With most US vehicles, a tune is putting the car on the dyno and fine tuning the fuel settings until it runs clean and has a correct afr. You can get a mail order tune, but dyno tuning is only about $100 more, so almost every one prefers to do that.

Looking through the for sale section, I notice almost every car for sale has an engine swap, and is modded, but only very few cars actually have dyno sheet. How are these cars tuned? Just wideband afr?

Also, are the ecu's flashable, or do you need a standalone programmable? How do you change the rpm limiter?

Just wondering this, because I generally call bullshit on any claimed HP numbers without a dyno sheet. Actually, I usually pay for a dyno run for a car I'm looking to buy. This way, I see the numbers, and if the car is going to break, it does before I buy it. It's usually $50 well spent.

To anyone looking to buy any car, trust me, if they won't let their car be dyno'd, just walk away. There's no reason anyone should be scared of a 4th pull to redline.

[280zx2by2]

They're a magical beast. Street tuned, up and down hills and such.

[Brian]

Thanks for the help.

[pstarkt87]

if I were to sell a dyno sheet, how much would you pay for it? what kind of return could I expect from said dyno sheet?

[landins13]

there are a lot of different options for tuning these things but most of the people who have a stock sr with bolt ons dont bother tuning them or they get a generic reflash.

Some of the better options which can be tuned on the dyno are.
Apexi Power FC
HKS Fcon Pro
AEM EMS
Greddy Emanage
Nistune

those are all fully programmable options though some replace the factory ecu and some are just add ons. Of course what system you run also depends on what motor you have and what your goals/ plans for the car are.

I know allot of the people on here have enthapy tunes where they get a generic map based on what injectors maf and turbo they are running.

[h2v7]

They're a magical beast. Street tuned, up and down hills and such.

this. :bowrofl:

[towlie]

It's because tunes aren't really necessary

97% of SR's only have mild bolt ons, afr and boost controller is the closest they get

People only wanna throw down $$$ for management/tune when they have serious power goals with major internals to boot

[NoPistons!]

Moates/nismotronic
rs enthalpy (sp?)
Megasquirt/megajolt
SAFC/MSD box/1:1afpr/fmu


TONS of options. TONS.


A wideband and a tune is ALWAYS a good idea, even if you are stock. Get the most bang for your buck without going boom because you have CONSTANT readout of your afr's and datalogging is worth it's weight in gold.

[anti tyler]

It's because tunes aren't really necessary

97% of SR's only have mild bolt ons, afr and boost controller is the closest they get

People only wanna throw down $$$ for management/tune when they have serious power goals with major internals to boot

Moates/nismotronic
rs enthalpy (sp?)
Megasquirt/megajolt
SAFC/MSD box/1:1afpr/fmu


TONS of options. TONS.


A wideband and a tune is ALWAYS a good idea, even if you are stock. Get the most bang for your buck without going boom because you have CONSTANT readout of your afr's and datalogging is worth it's weight in gold.


Like they said. From tuning with an SAFC to tuning with a fully programmable computer, it all depends on the goals. Like my car, I can no longer use an SAFC, because it can't handle the mods I have. I don't think every single person who's selling a car with mods should have to provide a dyno sheet, you can pretty much judge just how much horsepower sounds right by looking at the car in pictures, or even first hand. Let alone if you're buying a car, you should be test driving it. That would be a dead give-away as to whether it has the horsepower that's mentioned. No real dyno necessary. Just my 2 cents

[mx597turbo]

I don't think every single person who's selling a car with mods should have to provide a dyno sheet, you can pretty much judge just how much horsepower sounds right by looking at the car in pictures, or even first hand. Let alone if you're buying a car, you should be test driving it. That would be a dead give-away as to whether it has the horsepower that's mentioned. No real dyno necessary. Just my 2 cents

I agree that a car with a mostly stock swap doesn't need a dyno sheet or run. I wouldn't care about either in a $4000 car. For that much, I would be happy with 300hp.

I'm talking about cars in the $8000+ range. For that price, you are usually looking at a 240 with substantial hp claims. As a buyer, you're making a bigger investment, so you would want to protect yourself.

Of course you would drive the car, but the dyno pushes the car just a little harder than you would on a test drive.

[ManoNegra]

op has a good point
specially since SRs were made to run with an octane not available in the US
even stock-ish motors with bolts would benefit from a good tune

[anti tyler]

I agree that a car with a mostly stock swap doesn't need a dyno sheet or run. I wouldn't care about either in a $4000 car. For that much, I would be happy with 300hp.

I'm talking about cars in the $8000+ range. For that price, you are usually looking at a 240 with substantial hp claims. As a buyer, you're making a bigger investment, so you would want to protect yourself.

Of course you would drive the car, but the dyno pushes the car just a little harder than you would on a test drive.

Well again that's really all in opinion. Someone could be selling the cleanest omg I'm going to jizz all over myself 240 you've ever seen for $8k with barely any motor mods. But I do see where you're coming from. Should someone who's invested money into the motor and set their selling price at $8k, then yes, I would slightly expect to see some number, Dyno? Not necessarily, leaning more towards receipts for the work. Obviously if you're selling a car for $8,000 then you've put a lot of money into it. Either way, I get your point. But I just personally wouldn't ask to see a dyno sheet. + I wouldn't even attempt to push a car as hard as the dyno does anyway. I've seen plenty of people run their car on the dyno for 4+ hours at a time and blow their shit up. Plain stupid.


op has a good point
specially since SRs were made to run with an octane not available in the US
even stock-ish motors with bolts would benefit from a good tune

What octane isn't available in the US? Unless it's 79. I've seen everything from 89-100 octane gas in Jacksonville. (Yes I know just because it's in FL doesn't mean it's nation-wide)

[Corbic]

specially since SRs were made to run with an octane not available in the US


Love to know where you got that bullshit.

[delado]

Love to know where you got that bullshit.
+1 lol my sr has been in the U.S. for over 6 years running 93.

[Melonburst]

Any car stock or not benefits greatly from a properly tuned EMS. Back on topic though, you probably won't find many properly tuned cars here unless they're serious builders. The sad reality is drifters are pretty damned broke. Even the ones with money still settle for garbage EMS's like Power FC, Nistune and other similar standalones. For a nice and healthy tuned engine you really need separate cylinder fuel control and a rock solid, stable ignition system. Something along the lines of LinkG4, Haltech, or GEMS.

[420sx]

+1 lol my sr has been in the U.S. for over 6 years running 93.

likewise. its fine with 93 i have never heard this nonsense about this mythical gasoline usa does not have.


to the OP. you can tell what you are buying with a testdrive. if you are good and being around 240s for a while you WILL know what the car makes and whats it worth by looking at it and knowing what parts it has, engine, engine mods, etc. sometimes you can get good deals or not.

high end high horsepower cars many times will provide a dynosheet. stocking sr's will not and it will be DUMB to ask. you can always pay for the dyno yourself just like you said.

by the way, as a consumer, buying a MODIFIED car you automatically assume risk. if you want a grocery getter reliability buy stock cars... my 2.24 cents

[Corbic]

it has, engine, engine mods, etc. sometimes you can get good deals or not.

high end high horsepower cars many times will provide a dynosheet. stocking sr's will not and it will be DUMB to ask. you can always pay for the dyno yourself just like you said.


What would a Dyno prove anyways? Dyno =/ Tune

A dyno sheet just shows what power the engine is making, and even then a dyno operator can bullshit it up to hell.

The OP has no idea what the hell he is talking about. Few people on LSTech or Protouring post up dyno sheets with their 4 sale ads. Also, swapping a SR does not require a tune or a dyno since your using the original ECU.

Further more, as I stated a Dyno shows NOTHING. If your worried about AFR or a proper tune, you need to see a tune map and even then it could be a billion years old or any little thing could have change, vaccum/boost leak et al. This is why people put gauges in their cars.

A dyno tune is also not $100 more. Its typically $100-150 an hour... Any monkey can just as easily street tune a car by data logging. Your just making adjustments for AFR on a map and then uploading that. Its going to be far better than a dyno buy some shysters as its real world load. The only downsize is theres no "OMFG I made 475whp!!!" chart to go wave around like you just lost your virginity.

Then again, that is what drag strips are for - 1/4 + trap tells you more than any stinking dyno and even if you "Cant hook up" that tells even more.

[420sx]

i know that a dyno doesnt prove anything. i was trying to make a point about people having them period. you are correct, they are deemed unimportant by many.

[Corbic]

l
by the way, as a consumer, buying a MODIFIED car you automatically assume risk. if you want a grocery getter reliability buy stock cars... my 2.24 cents

Exactly. More over, don't buy even a stock sports car. The newest 240sx is now 13 years old. Assuming all owners where the "grocery store" types, it should have 156,000 miles and there are a lot of parts that just don't last that sort of mileage and time. So really, I'd be scared of any 240sx with all "stock parts" as that may mean nothing has ever been fixed and you'll be dropping $1,500 into it to catch up on basic maintenance.

[anti tyler]

What would a Dyno prove anyways? Dyno =/ Tune

A dyno sheet just shows what power the engine is making, and even then a dyno operator can bullshit it up to hell.

The OP has no idea what the hell he is talking about. Few people on LSTech or Protouring post up dyno sheets with their 4 sale ads. Also, swapping a SR does not require a tune or a dyno since your using the original ECU.

Further more, as I stated a Dyno shows NOTHING. If your worried about AFR or a proper tune, you need to see a tune map and even then it could be a billion years old or any little thing could have change, vaccum/boost leak et al. This is why people put gauges in their cars.

A dyno tune is also not $100 more. Its typically $100-150 an hour... Any monkey can just as easily street tune a car by data logging. Your just making adjustments for AFR on a map and then uploading that. Its going to be far better than a dyno buy some shysters as its real world load. The only downsize is theres no "OMFG I made 475whp!!!" chart to go wave around like you just lost your virginity.

Then again, that is what drag strips are for - 1/4 + trap tells you more than any stinking dyno and even if you "Cant hook up" that tells even more.


Looking through the for sale section, I notice almost every car for sale has an engine swap, and is modded, but only very few cars actually have dyno sheet. How are these cars tuned? Just wideband afr?

Also, are the ecu's flashable, or do you need a standalone programmable? How do you change the rpm limiter?

Just wondering this, because I generally call bullshit on any claimed HP numbers without a dyno sheet.

Even though I don't agree with the need to dyno, don't bash the poor guys lol. After all it was the OP who originally was pretty much just asking. To simplify all of this thread;

Q: How are these cars for sale on here tuned?
A: Ask the seller, most of then (as explained) are stock motors with bolt on parts, thus the need for an expensive tuner ex. Haltech, AEM, Apexi FC, GReddy E-manage, is not there.
Less modified motors use, or CAN use, simple piggy-back controllers ex. SAFC, MSD, or even just flashed stock ECU's, Enthaply, JWT etc.
P.S: You can't tune with a(n) Wide-band. It's just a monitor of your A/F ratio.

Q: Are the ecu's flashable? OR do you need a standalone programmable?
A: YES/ NO like I stated before, you can send your ecu off to get flashed, or even solder on your own little magical chip and flash it yourself. (personally I hate shit like that so use that at your own risk)
A2: You don't need a stand alone ecu for all applications, if you want to throw $1200 at your car for an AEM EMS 2 like I did, I'd hope you're doing it because you have the many mods on your car that a piggy-back SAFC can't handle. That or your money tree is blooming.


That being said, don't be the douche who goes looking for a car, and bashes ever single seller because he doesn't have a dyno sheet. It's not that huge of a deal. If you were buying the $27,000 Enjuku racing drift car, yeah ask for a dyno sheet. But if you're asking Joe Blow from down the street if he has a dyno sheet for his 1993 SR20DE-T with a T3/T4 that he claims is pushing 320rwhp @ 15lbs, then you should re-consider your knowledge of cars and their capabilities. :duh:


THAT IS ALL! :eek3d:

(this wasn't meant to demean anyone on here. don't get me wrong, I'm and asshole and all, but yeah. never mind.)

[Prime]

...octane not available in the US...



What octane isn't available in the US? Unless it's 79. I've seen everything from 89-100 octane gas in Jacksonville. (Yes I know just because it's in FL doesn't mean it's nation-wide)

Love to know where you got that bullshit.

I think he's referring to the fact that the US uses the AKI rating system and Japan uses RON only. Since AKI=(RON+MON)/2 and we don't know the MON rating of their fuel, there's no real way to know how they compare. IIRC the SR was supposed to run 97 RON from the factory. If you can find a station in the States selling it, bravo.

[towlie]

^not that it matters...

As previously stated SR's run just dandy on good ol supreme

[nathanong87]

my butt dyno says it's feels fast

[mx597turbo]

The OP has no idea what the hell he is talking about. Few people on LSTech or Protouring post up dyno sheets with their 4 sale ads. Also, swapping a SR does not require a tune or a dyno since your using the original ECU.

A dyno tune is also not $100 more. Its typically $100-150 an hour

Then again, that is what drag strips are for - 1/4 + trap tells you more than any stinking dyno and even if you "Cant hook up" that tells even more.

First, I was referring to corvetteforum.com, not ls1tech. The LS1 stock makes about 300rwhp. I agree no dyno is necessary for someone saying their car is at 400rwhp. But honestly, if someone is claiming 450rwhp (a 50%) increase, I would like to see some proof. Receipts can be faked just as easily as a dyno sheet. Which is why I would pay for their dyno run. I would have to be pretty much set on the car, all numbers worked out, and that would seal the deal. I wouldn't ask the owned to pay for it. For an sr/ka, it would be when the seller claims their car is >400hp.

As far as dyno tunes costing so much, You can get a mail order tune for both a Corevette / FBody or Mustang for about $150. I know of several local tuners (with good reps) who will dyno tune for about $300-$400. So you're looking at $150 - $250 more than a mail order.

I also agree that trap speed is probably the best indicator of real world hp. 1/4 times are very driver-dependent.

[mx597turbo]

That being said, don't be the douche who goes looking for a car, and bashes ever single seller because he doesn't have a dyno sheet. It's not that huge of a deal. If you were buying the $27,000 Enjuku racing drift car, yeah ask for a dyno sheet. But if you're asking Joe Blow from down the street if he has a dyno sheet for his 1993 SR20DE-T with a T3/T4 that he claims is pushing 320rwhp @ 15lbs, then you should re-consider your knowledge of cars and their capabilities. :duh:


I agree 100% and I wouldn't bash anyone for not having a sheet. But like I said, when someone claims 400rwhp (and has an asking price to match), I need a little more than their word on it.

[420sx]

I agree 100% and I wouldn't bash anyone for not having a sheet. But like I said, when someone claims 400rwhp (and has an asking price to match), I need a little more than their word on it.

once again you can tell by the mods. you can look at the parts and know right away the range of power. it just takes experience.

just look at it. would ya?

EF8GhC-T_Mo

[ManoNegra]

Love to know where you got that bullshit.
same place I got the KA/SR transmission bullshit

SRs were made to run Japanese premium gas
their 100 octane gas in the RON system translates to ~95 US octane
many places in the US have 93 available but in CA it's 91 for the most part
e85 is available in very few places but only people I know that use it regularly are track guys... with tuned engines

you think those popping noises your car makes on decel are supposed to be there?

so yes, SRs would benefit from tuning even if running basic set ups

and btw, a basic dyno pull will show you power/torque output AND AFR
I don't see how that wouldn't a worthwhile thing specially since a baseline pull is ~$50.

[420sx]

same place I got the KA/SR transmission bullshit

SRs were made to run Japanese premium gas
their 100 octane gas in the RON system translates to ~95 US octane
many places in the US have 93 available but in CA it's 91 for the most part
e85 is available in very few places but only people I know that use it regularly are track guys... with tuned engines

you think those popping noises your car makes on decel are supposed to be there?

so yes, SRs would benefit from tuning even if running basic set ups

those popping noises are usually due to leaking atmospheric bov's because it makes the car run rich. lower grade of gasoline burns faster thus making it run leaner. popping is due to the rich condition

[s13 @ fullboost]

i tune my car via my tuner? standalone is key!

[SoBay240guy]

same place I got the KA/SR transmission bullshit

SRs were made to run Japanese premium gas
their 100 octane gas in the RON system translates to ~95 US octane
many places in the US have 93 available but in CA it's 91 for the most part
e85 is available in very few places but only people I know that use it regularly are track guys... with tuned engines

you think those popping noises your car makes on decel are supposed to be there?

so yes, SRs would benefit from tuning even if running basic set ups

and btw, a basic dyno pull will show you power/torque output AND AFR
I don't see how that wouldn't a worthwhile thing specially since a baseline pull is ~$50.


Don't feed the stupid troll Juan,:picardfp: he just likes the attention, and if you use such large words he will miss the point anyway

OP sorry this thread got all zilvia'd out you had a very reasonable question and train of thought alot of us DO share...you know what they say about the loudest 5% though right?

you are right a DYNO sheet/pull should come with any car with more than bolt-ons that is being sold as running, otherwise who knows what kind of basket case you are really getting,,,, it's for sale for a reason right???

[Corbic]

you are right a DYNO sheet/pull should come with any car with more than bolt-ons that is being sold as running, otherwise who knows what kind of basket case you are really getting,,,, it's for sale for a reason right???

You make a dyno sheet sound like a vehicle inspection.

Maybe you should ask to see the Car Fox.

[SoBay240guy]

maybe (obviously) you speak from 0 experience,

If you have a dyno sheet and it has a phone number on it you call and ask for a copy of the file, any reputable shop will provide it with the OP's permission, the file contains all the info you need to verify that no scaling or correction factors are included and the viewing software is usually avail free on the web... the file also contains all logged parameters such as A/F and boost.

You show your lack of actual knowledge every time you post maybe you should lurk more and troll less, all I see from you is misinformation and thought processes that go off half-cocked.

[landins13]

having a dyno showing 300whp isnt going to tell you that the kid like to peg the rev limiter and go into boost in stop and go traffic. If theyre claiming that the car made a certain number and thats the motivation for your purchase then yeah a dyno sheet would be good to see but most of the time with these cars if you are looking at a $8k car its cleaner than it is fast and your buying it because its pretty.

[Corbic]

maybe (obviously) you speak from 0 experience,

If you have a dyno sheet and it has a phone number on it you call and ask for a copy of the file, any reputable shop will provide it with the OP's permission, the file contains all the info you need to verify that no scaling or correction factors are included and the viewing software is usually avail free on the web... the file also contains all logged parameters such as A/F and boost.

You show your lack of actual knowledge every time you post maybe you should lurk more and troll less, all I see from you is misinformation and thought processes that go off half-cocked.

Sounds like your the one running around half-cocked. Out causing a ruckus cause I hurt your buddies feelings.

Once again, your making it sound like a dyno test is going to be some sort of magical guaranty.

As I and others have stated, it's not. It's actually bad advice to tell someone they should expect a dyno sheet. A dyno us not required to properly tune a car.

A track slip will be just as useful.

You want some real advice? Compression check, oil check, vehicle inspection (buyers expense) and search the user name on forums.

When you find 30 threads from Billy240 about his wiring nightmares and they end with "fuck it I'm selling this pos" and his for sale thread is "runs perfect, getting out of the game want to buy a house"...

[simmode1]

^^^Sage advice right thurrr...

[SoBay240guy]

Sounds like your the one running around half-cocked. Out causing a ruckus cause I hurt your buddies feelings.

Once again, your making it sound like a dyno test is going to be some sort of magical guaranty.

As I and others have stated, it's not. It's actually bad advice to tell someone they should expect a dyno sheet. A dyno us not required to properly tune a car.

A track slip will be just as useful.

You want some real advice? Compression check, oil check, vehicle inspection (buyers expense) and search the user name on forums.

When you find 30 threads from Billy240 about his wiring nightmares and they end with "fuck it I'm selling this pos" and his for sale thread is "runs perfect, getting out of the game want to buy a house"...


more of the same from this guy i see...

all of what you listed is called common sense, not advice....

a dyno is required to properly tune a vehicle but we all get that you don't understand how they work, that's fine, you don't get alot obviously... :ddog:

[drift freaq]

If someone is selling a high ticket i.e. higher priced car with big HP numbers then of course a buyer should desire to see a dyno sheet proving the numbers. One preferably done more recently as well. On the sellers part its actually a really good tool to show justification for your asking price. As I put these parts into in my build to achieve this HP.

As for the comment about Billy240 fucking up his wiring and saying fuck it I am selling it. Well its up to the buyer to have the knowledge to know what they are looking at.

Indeed a car could have a great engine with great numbers and a dyno sheet and shit wiring.
Do you buy the car based solely on the dyno sheet? No. Can it be a a important factor in the decision based on taking other things into assessment? Yes.
Do you buy it solely on it looking pretty? Well if you do your an idiot. LOL

Seriously anyone spending big money on a car with a lot of stuff put into it should A: have the knowledge to asses the quality and condition of all components or B: take the car to someone who can do this for them.


All of this comes down to educated purchases. Can a Dyno sheet be useful? Sure, every little thing that gives the buyer info towards their purchase is of value.

Which of course leads to Caveat emptor

[Corbic]

a dyno is required to properly tune a vehicle but we all get that you don't understand how they work, that's fine, you don't get alot obviously... :ddog:

Ah, I see you have never heard of a "street tune".

[SoBay240guy]

I've heard of unicorns, but no one can give me an imperical measurement of the length or taper of the horn,

have you ever heard of doing things the right way instead of half assing it???

and if you are stupid enough to think Juan has any feeling left you are even stupider than I took you for...

[Corbic]

I've hear of unicorns, but no one can give me an imperical measurement of the length or taper of the horn,

have you ever heard of doing things the right way instead of half assing it???

and if you are stupid enough to think Juan has any feeling left you are even stupider than I took you for...

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_vnZp2GudKgw/TT6kRUmVXPI/AAAAAAAAAZo/XJOVACdgS7w/s1600/u-mad___camron.jpg

You earned it.

[ManoNegra]

and if you are stupid enough to think Juan has any feeling left you are even stupider than I took you for...

hey hey hey... that was mean :wtc:

lol

Corbic - I've never cared enough to point it out but you have a tendency to run
your mouth about things you don't clearly know about or understand.

It's one to thing to be ignorant and happy to remain so
but if you're going to speak like you're an authority don't be surprised if people call you out on your bullshit.

And no, my feelings aren't hurt. I simply pointed you out to a friend so he too could have a laugh.

edit.

really??? U Mad gif is the best you can do?

[SoBay240guy]

you wish i was mad...you're all cute when you can't even retort,

never mind not being able to address any of the actual calling out of your ignorance...go back to the fashion thread where subjective is OK but quit trying to pass off information you don't even have,

[Corbic]

really??? U Mad gif is the best you can do?

That's all the effort he deserves at this point.

The fact remains a dyno sheet is not a true indicator of a cars health or condition.

Few car owners will supply one.

You can tune a car on the street. Some would argue it's better as it takes into account real driving conditions. A street tune is just as "safe" as a dyno tune, the benefit of dyno is only your ability to maximize your tune by finding the perfect timing and AFR.

A dyno tune is not $50, a dyno run is closer to $50. There is a difference.

If this us ignorance, great, it's blissful. If I'm standing by my assertions it's because Sobee failed to make any rational or convincing arguments.

He needs to chill the fuck out already.

[SoBay240guy]

the benefit of dyno is only your ability to maximize your tune by finding the perfect timing and AFR.

A dyno tune is not $50, a dyno run is closer to $50.




but you said dyno's are useless for tuning are you confused again sweetheart, if you're gonna be ignorant atleast be consistent

no-one said a tune was $50, you shouldn't have to tune a car at the time of sale, you should only need to provide a logged pull...

[Phlip]

Enough with the damned argument.

OP: if you have any further question on this subject and care to discuss it without the dickswinging contest that ensued in this thread, please feel free to start another.