KA24DER inPut

[WillEastS14]

I'd love to chit chat, but after burning DAYS on searching thru Here, NicoClub, and KA-T.org and using KA24DER.com as a reference, I've compiled a list for :hyper:supercharging:hyper: my ka.

I have my rebuilt kit on the way anyhow so I'm convincing myself to do it all in one bang.:hitit:

So far my list is

Z32 Maf
550cc DW injectors
Walbro 255 Pump
Battery Relocation Kit
Oil Filter Relocation Kit
AEM Wideband
Q45 Throttle Body
KA24DER.com SC Mount Kit
Eaton M62 SC
Agency Power Throttle Pulley
ARP Head Studs
Cometic Gasket Set

***after I get most of it done, I'll look into a FMIC*** :wiggle:


For the most part, I feel confident that my list is near completion yet, the main issue i have in my head is tuning and engine manangement. Sure if I had money Out the [email protected]$ i would get AEM Series 2 EMS, yet KA24DER.com recommended Nistune... Should i roll with what they say? or Save the money and get AEM EMS? I don't want to Cut Corners on this build because Reliability is the Point (especially being stationed in Germany, I road race the Nurburgring every so often)

Also with the Q45 TB thing, is that even necessary? because this forum's answers i've searched are iffy about it. I am considering this ITB setup with my SC setup, yet this site isn't clear about what is included and what isn't.

http://www.xcessivemanufacturing.com/ON ... =4&pid=129

NOTE TO READERS AND RESPONDERS, MY DEPLOYMENT MONEY HELPS FUNDS THIS PROJECT SO I AM NOT TALKING OUT MY "LOWER EXTREMITIES" LoL Just needed some input......... Thank you in advanced:werd:

[Pray And Spray]

Damnn sounds cool af!

[herbieS13]

if youre currently deployed then just wait a paycheck or 2 (depending on your rank) and get the AEM

sidenote:: what branch, where u deployed?

[cdlong]

The front mount won't even work with that kit (and most supercharger setups). Maybe an air-to-water setup, but if you really want a front mount, you need to do a different setup, usually with the SC is over the exhaust manifold. You can't use ITBs either because the SC will just push boost against the TBs, it would be a tuning and reliability nightmare. Nistune is a good system, the reliability is all in the tune. No need to go to an AEM unless you want specific features in it, methanol injection for one.

Good to see you putting all that money you earned risking your life to good use (that's sarcasm by the way).

[revcyanide]

Good to see you putting all that money you earned risking your life to good use (that's sarcasm by the way).
so us military cannot spend their paycheck on a hobby they enjoy?

[n8RPS13]

cdlong is correct you wont need a FMIC with this setup. Air to water is not necessary unless you are tracking and plan on using a 13 lb pulley. Pulleyguys.com sells smaller diameter pulleys for the M62 as well. I already have mine completed I will be installing this winter leave. Keep in mind you are goingt to have to get the supergharger modified as well so try to source out a reputable machine shop. I would go NIStune or with JWT for the tune. JWT will say go with the Z32 MAF but klatter1 suggests using the Q45 MAF. For us military guys JWT offers a discount and a re-tune if you go up in boost or injectors is only 100 bucks. Im going to use JWT because its not a daughter board setup and Mr. Wolf has been tuning Nissans and Datsuns for over 30 years and is reliable. If you need any help hit me up bro! Good luck

[n8RPS13]

Good to see you putting all that money you earned risking your life to good use (that's sarcasm by the way).

I know you are just trying to be funny, but if you have not served than STFU!

[EhrikETFG]

i thought you just needed to get a plate machined, not the actual supercharger itself?

[ray666]

i bought the thomas knight sc kit a couple years ago. i ended up selling the kit and going sr. the point is your can't intercool a roots type charger.

[davirene]

Good to see you putting all that money you earned risking your life to good use (that's sarcasm by the way).

I spent every penny I could when I was deployed. Came away with some incredible memories....besides what good does the money do when your 6foot under????

WILLEASTS14
Looking forward to your build post pics and details.....SEMPER FI!!!!

[chituntang]

i bought the thomas knight sc kit a couple years ago. i ended up selling the kit and going sr. the point is your can't intercool a roots type charger.

You can use intercooler on a roots type charger, but you need to intercool air after its been charge, not before...

[WillEastS14]

Damnn sounds cool af!

Thanks, i just wake up in the morning.....turn my swag on lol

if youre currently deployed then just wait a paycheck or 2 (depending on your rank) and get the AEM

sidenote:: what branch, where u deployed?

Air Force, Currently SrA but im a Staff select (1st time =]) im leaning towards AEM cuz eventually i'd get into water/alcohol/meth injection after i read up on it more

The front mount won't even work with that kit (and most supercharger setups). Maybe an air-to-water setup, but if you really want a front mount, you need to do a different setup, usually with the SC is over the exhaust manifold. You can't use ITBs either because the SC will just push boost against the TBs, it would be a tuning and reliability nightmare. Nistune is a good system, the reliability is all in the tune. No need to go to an AEM unless you want specific features in it, methanol injection for one.

Good to see you putting all that money you earned risking your life to good use (that's sarcasm by the way).

as far as intercooling options, a fmic isn't mandatory, but i feel more comfortable with something aiding my soon-to-be boosted ka, and a Smic doesnt feel right. catch me drift:2f2f:

As far as the ITBs do you think the stock manifold with a Q45 TB should do the trick? because as i see it, 280-320ish hp shouldnt be a problem for it but in FAQs all across the forums throughtout the internet always list xcessive's manifold and greddy( mostly for SR) and i'm just trying to get my ducks in a row

cdlong is correct you wont need a FMIC with this setup. Air to water is not necessary unless you are tracking and plan on using a 13 lb pulley. Pulleyguys.com sells smaller diameter pulleys for the M62 as well. I already have mine completed I will be installing this winter leave. Keep in mind you are goingt to have to get the supergharger modified as well so try to source out a reputable machine shop. I would go NIStune or with JWT for the tune. JWT will say go with the Z32 MAF but klatter1 suggests using the Q45 MAF. For us military guys JWT offers a discount and a re-tune if you go up in boost or injectors is only 100 bucks. Im going to use JWT because its not a daughter board setup and Mr. Wolf has been tuning Nissans and Datsuns for over 30 years and is reliable. If you need any help hit me up bro! Good luck

JWT hmm, u know i COMPLETELY forgot about them lol. i'll keep that in mind, thanks for the discount info. as far as modding the SC, KA24DER.com said
" the first 4 cooling fins (closest to the pulley) on the supercharger housing will need to be machined down flush if you plan on using a stock style oil filter; otherwise an oil filter relocation will be required for proper clearance"

Hence the oil filter relocate kit. i plan to keep it as my DDWWG (DD when weather is good) no german salt n snow mixture to rust my shell.... rust free SO FAR


i thought you just needed to get a plate machined, not the actual supercharger itself?


KA24DER.com

The kit includes the following components:

■1/2" thick 6061 aluminum CNC machined adapter plate between the supercharger and stock upper intake manifold assembly; intake ports are radiused; three 1/8" NPT ports for vacuum/boost signals; provisions for stock AAC valve and air regulator; includes the stock Nissan gasket between the supercharger and the adapter plate
■1/2" thick 7075 aluminum CNC machined alternator relocation bracket; includes pullies, tensioner and drive belt


I spent every penny I could when I was deployed. Came away with some incredible memories....besides what good does the money do when your 6foot under????

WILLEASTS14
Looking forward to your build post pics and details.....SEMPER FI!!!!

:bow: Appreciate it sir.... I am going to have a build thread when it all gets together and finalized, the highest i've seen via youtube for SC ka is 255 hp (doesnt specify whp or at crank) im comfortable with that ATM :keke:

[NoPistons!]

List sounds good mane. You should just save your money on the cometic and run an mls tho. That's just my opinion if you want it. If you listen or not, that's up to you. I can't see any reason to run a copper head gasket unless you're pushing some crazy numbers. I doubt you'll blow an mls with what you are wanting to do if you do it right.

i bought the thomas knight sc kit a couple years ago. i ended up selling the kit and going sr. the point is your can't intercool a roots type charger.

Yes, you can. That's why your ass bought an sr. Lack of imagination and engineering tact...

[Chaluska]

... the point is your can't intercool a roots type charger.

Lol. this is what starts bad rumors, and mis-information.

http://carphotos.cardomain.com/ride_images/1/2108/41/5267520312_large.jpg

Water cooled intercooler, just like a freakin OEM ford lightning uses... you can intercool anything, if you get in between the engine, and the compressor..

please do a little bit more research, before you spread stupid mis-information.

KK thanks

[surfpac]

the point is your can't intercool a roots type charger.

Intercooled roots supercharger.. In this case "Before" and "After"

http://www.antholonet.com/EngineersCars/DeltaS4/Airflow.jpg

In case you guys didn't know this was one of the baddest mofo ever built..
Lancia Delta S4 (http://www.antholonet.com/EngineersCars/DeltaS4/DeltaS4.html)

[cdlong]

I know you are just trying to be funny, but if you have not served than STFU!

http://i336.photobucket.com/albums/n325/cdlong28/random/DSC_0024.jpg

That's me with Kabul in the background. I've deployed three times and spent a year in Korea. I've served my time.

I spent every penny I could when I was deployed. Came away with some incredible memories....besides what good does the money do when your 6foot under????

so us military cannot spend their paycheck on a hobby they enjoy?

Sure, you can do whatever you want with your money, but if you're living paycheck to paycheck, if you do come into some money it seems wise to use it for something more worthwhile before you blow it on your car. Maybe a house, saving for college, rainy day fund, etc. Some lasting investment seems more appropriate, since the adventure could have cost you your life. The last thing we should see is some kid thinking, 'I want to deploy so I can do an SR swap!'

Air Force, Currently SrA but im a Staff select (1st time =])

Good job! Staff was pretty tough this round wasn't it?

OK, back on topic.

as far as intercooling options, a fmic isn't mandatory, but i feel more comfortable with something aiding my soon-to-be boosted ka, and a Smic doesnt feel right. catch me drift:2f2f:

As far as the ITBs do you think the stock manifold with a Q45 TB should do the trick? because as i see it, 280-320ish hp shouldnt be a problem for it but in FAQs all across the forums throughtout the internet always list xcessive's manifold and greddy( mostly for SR) and i'm just trying to get my ducks in a row

You seem to be missing the point, a standard air to air intercooler won't work with that kit at all, be it front mount, side mount, anything. The SC pumps air right into the intake manifold and into the engine. You need something between the charger and the engine. I had this idea a while back, red is SC, green is aluminum ducting, blue is an air-to-water IC core. I'd install the kit as it comes and think about something like this later.
http://i336.photobucket.com/albums/n325/cdlong28/random/ka24derICidea.jpg

You could go with the Q45 TB, I would, but you don't have to. The stock TB should be able to handle it. Alternate intake manifolds of any sort won't work, just stick with the stock one.

[Chaluska]

the picture i showed is what all the GTP guys use to intercool there superchargers.

its a plate that bolts between the S/C and the manifold, and runs water to a front mounted heat exchanger.. the same thing could be used on the KA, you would just need a different sized belt, and longer bolts.

see....
http://www.thrashercharged.com/L67_htm/new_cooler.shtm

while its definitely not as cheap as a "ebay seller" front mount intercooler setup, its the only real way to compactly intercool your supercharger.

Or, instead of running a M62 eaton, run a M90... you will build more boost pressure CFM while running cooler than a M62.

[n8RPS13]

" the first 4 cooling fins (closest to the pulley) on the supercharger housing will need to be machined down flush if you plan on using a stock style oil filter; otherwise an oil filter relocation will be required for proper clearance"

Hence the oil filter relocate kit. i plan to keep it as my DDWWG (DD when weather is good) no german salt n snow mixture to rust my shell.... rust free SO FAR





KA24DER.com

The kit includes the following components:

■1/2" thick 6061 aluminum CNC machined adapter plate between the supercharger and stock upper intake manifold assembly; intake ports are radiused; three 1/8" NPT ports for vacuum/boost signals; provisions for stock AAC valve and air regulator; includes the stock Nissan gasket between the supercharger and the adapter plate
■1/2" thick 7075 aluminum CNC machined alternator relocation bracket; includes pullies, tensioner and drive belt




:bow: Appreciate it sir.... I am going to have a build thread when it all gets together and finalized, the highest i've seen via youtube for SC ka is 255 hp (doesnt specify whp or at crank) im comfortable with that ATM :keke:[/QUOTE]

JWT told me I should be close to 300 whp reaching full boost at around 2300-2500 RPM with the 13 lb pulley and the 550cc's. I also have a built KA top to bottom so we'll see what happens! Also the part of the the supercharger I was refering to was the internal wastegate opening. It has to be shaved down flush to the S.C. plate. I am also using an oil cooler in conjunction with the oil relocation kit..I would suggest that for you as well. Dont do ITB's bro! That will be a tuning nightmare!

[WillEastS14]

http://i336.photobucket.com/albums/n325/cdlong28/random/DSC_0024.jpg

That's me with Kabul in the background. I've deployed three times and spent a year in Korea. I've served my time.

Well doesn't someone #coffcoff fell in a awkward position lol


The last thing we should see is some kid thinking, 'I want to deploy so I can do an SR swap!'

LoL i've heard it in different strands...... deploy to by a m3, a vette, my rb swap... things u see and here in germany SMH


You seem to be missing the point, a..........think about something like this later.
http://i336.photobucket.com/albums/n325/cdlong28/random/ka24derICidea.jpg

Ah now i understand...... thanks for expanding my mind

[QUOTE=Chaluska;4277603]
Or, instead of running a M62 eaton, run a M90... you will build more boost pressure CFM while running cooler than a M62.

well the kit is made for the m62 but physically is the m90 different?

JWT told me I should be close to 300 whp reaching full boost at around 2300-2500 RPM with the 13 lb pulley and the 550cc's. I also have a built KA top to bottom so we'll see what happens! Also the part of the the supercharger I was refering to was the internal wastegate opening. It has to be shaved down flush to the S.C. plate. I am also using an oil cooler in conjunction with the oil relocation kit..I would suggest that for you as well. Dont do ITB's bro! That will be a tuning nightmare!

:wiggle:Word. keep me updated bro because i wanna get to where your at:bow:

[herbieS13]

i'd go back to iraq in a heart beat now that its all settled, just fyi for all you active duty ppl, YOU CAN GET KUWAIT AS A DUTY ASSIGNMENT AND GET ALL HAZ/FIRE PAYS!!!

[revcyanide]

I'm going to Afghanistan in aug, gonna be working in a FOB, excited as hell about it.

[mattack69]

Will, You will be fine with Nistune. I Know the individual whom came up with the kit. The first car used for the test fit was not tuned correctly at the time and he put very decent numbers down. After the Nistune things improved as expected. You do not need a Z Maf, it's really overkill. The Q45 is great for the job. I don't see how you should be concerned about cutting corners the site lists exactly what you need and I can vouch for the quality of the CNC'd items you will get. Nistune is what they used, they even had a offer a few weeks ago for a free base tune or something. Contact him concerning AEM vs. Nistune. I think you would be over paying for the AEMV2 but to each his own. If you have any particulars hit me up on my cell.

-Matty

[pstarkt87]

hey so I might be a newb but I dont think ITB's will work on your supercharger ... just a though, and I second the NIStune movement, your looking at $500-$600, VS. AEM $1200, not even tuned ... IMHO you can get the NIS tune board, individual Liscense and consult cable and do some work, or theres a guy an hour from us that is a liscensed nistune dealer and has a liscensed tuner for nistune, just my .02

[pstarkt87]

P.S. sorry to thread jack, will do you have 370cc injectors? and any other turbo goodies?
thanks in advance, -Kai

[klattr1]

For the most part, I feel confident that my list is near completion yet, the main issue i have in my head is tuning and engine manangement. Sure if I had money Out the [email protected]$ i would get AEM Series 2 EMS, yet KA24DER.com recommended Nistune... Should i roll with what they say?

Also with the Q45 TB thing, is that even necessary?
Nistune works great in combination with the supercharger kit...I've tuned several cars on both systems and for a setup at this power level, I'd recommend Nistune instead for many reasons. We are even offering a free base tune for S14's right now (if I get my hands on a S13 locally, that tune will be available soon after).

As far as the throttle body goes, you will need to buy a Q45 unit to use our kit (intake pipe is flanged for a Q45 TB).

[n8RPS13]

You do not need a Z Maf, it's really overkill. The Q45 is great for the job.

-Matty

Thats funny because JWT told me that the Q45 MAF is overkill(which it is larger) and they would prefer to use a Z32. You can also use a Cobra MAF

[klattr1]

Thats funny because JWT told me that the Q45 MAF is overkill(which it is larger) and they would prefer to use a Z32. You can also use a Cobra MAF
The Q45 mafs is physically larger compared to the Z32 mafs but it's scaled lower (resolution wise). So in my opinion this is better suited as it will restrict air flow less and is closer matched to the HP level that the SC kit yields.

[n8RPS13]

The Q45 mafs is physically larger compared to the Z32 mafs but it's scaled lower (resolution wise). So in my opinion this is better suited as it will restrict air flow less and is closer matched to the HP level that the SC kit yields.

As I stated earlier in the discussion.....

JWT will say go with the Z32 MAF but klatter1 suggests using the Q45 MAF.

[n8RPS13]

Not trying to turn this into a Z32 vs Q45 MAF debate, but I found the paragraphs in quotations below while trying to find the volumetric flow of both MAF's. I have also read about and heard a lot of guys saying that the big problem with using the Q45 MAF is the flow of air at idle. Its made to flow much more air at idle from the 4.5 liter it was designed for that even with the KA being turbo/supercharged it will have problems metering correctly at lower RPM's. This makes it harder to tune.

Ryan Klatt has succesfully used the Q45 with the setups for his KA supercharger kit. Im just not sure how easy it was to tune. I believe this is why JWT would prefer to do a tune for a Z32 MAF and not the Q45. Plain and simple its easier to tune.

"I have used both a single Z32 and Q45 MAF on my SR20 with PFC and the Q45 hit 4.9 volts at about 450rwhp, where the Z32 was still in low fours. Yes they have a different size but the voltage vs AFM curves are very different. The big issue with any tuning solution is what kind of resolution does the sensor have, 5 volts is 5 volts so you need to distribute that as evenly as you can across your airflow with out maxing it out.
For example look at what a Q45 is, a 4.5L V8 that sucks more air then any Z32 engine will at idle, most of the guys like myself have a hard time getting the Q45 MAF to meter well at lower airflows (esp a turbo 4-banger) because of its curve."


"I'm currently running the q45 maf, and though its bigger and it allows more airflow (the main reason why its so hard to tune) because at the lower end its just not detailed enough to handle the lesser amount of air metered compared to the big V8 it was originally intended for."

[WillEastS14]

Will, You will be fine with Nistune. I Know the individual whom came up with the kit. The first car used for the test fit was not tuned correctly at the time and he put very decent numbers down. After the Nistune things improved as expected. You do not need a Z Maf, it's really overkill. The Q45 is great for the job. I don't see how you should be concerned about cutting corners the site lists exactly what you need and I can vouch for the quality of the CNC'd items you will get. Nistune is what they used, they even had a offer a few weeks ago for a free base tune or something. Contact him concerning AEM vs. Nistune. I think you would be over paying for the AEMV2 but to each his own. If you have any particulars hit me up on my cell.

-Matty

MAtty! #swag JUST WANTED TO SAY THAT :bigok:

hey so I might be a newb but I dont think ITB's will work on your supercharger ... just a though, and I second the NIStune movement, your looking at $500-$600, VS. AEM $1200, not even tuned ... IMHO you can get the NIS tune board, individual Liscense and consult cable and do some work, or theres a guy an hour from us that is a liscensed nistune dealer and has a liscensed tuner for nistune, just my .02

kai? so Jerell wants u to Facebook him about something, but idk :coolugh:
i sold my 370s and went oem because i am in the business of getting it clean( oem goodies) INSIDE and OUT but the RB20 is SO not appetizing as i want it. unfortunately i still have it:tinhat:

Nistune works great in combination with the supercharger kit...I've tuned several cars on both systems and for a setup at this power level, I'd recommend Nistune instead for many reasons. We are even offering a free base tune for S14's right now (if I get my hands on a S13 locally, that tune will be available soon after).

As far as the throttle body goes, you will need to buy a Q45 unit to use our kit (intake pipe is flanged for a Q45 TB).

WORD. :bigok:

[pstarkt87]

ok tell him to look me up, my name is Kai Nicholls, should be one of the only ones there

[grexs13]

Intercooled roots supercharger.. In this case "Before" and "After"

http://www.antholonet.com/EngineersCars/DeltaS4/Airflow.jpg

In case you guys didn't know this was one of the baddest mofo ever built..
Lancia Delta S4 (http://www.antholonet.com/EngineersCars/DeltaS4/DeltaS4.html)

that was a good book, gotta give props to A.Graham Bell for that illustration bro!