China: Hand over trade secrets to Chevy Volt or no tax-credit for it

[tricky_ab]

The world really needs to unite and get China behave better. Between intellectual property theft, way-too-lax environmental laws, way-too-lax safety laws, currency manipulation, etc. China is just free-loading on the rest of the world.

The Chinese government is refusing to let the Volt qualify for subsidies totaling up to $19,300 a car unless G.M. agrees to transfer the engineering secrets for one of the Volt’s three main technologies to a joint venture in China with a Chinese automaker, G.M. officials said. Some international trade experts said China would risk violating World Trade Organization rules if it imposed that requirement.

The government’s demand is the latest example of China’s willingness to use the leverage of Western access to the vast Chinese market to extract concessions on advanced technologies. Policies to force technology transfers from non-Chinese companies have already helped this nation build big industries in areas like wind turbines, high-speed trains and water purification.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/06/bu...rets.html?_r=1 (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/06/business/global/gm-aims-the-volt-at-china-but-chinese-want-its-secrets.html?_r=1)


I'm mad and I'm not even American. You gave them access to your vast markets and got virtually NOTHING back from them (just lost jobs and lots of pollution). And now they are extracting things from you. This is ridiculous. Instead of a trade war, your government opted for unilateral disarmament and being over-run.


http://www.blogcdn.com/green.autoblog.com/media/2011/09/shanghaismog.jpg

[ESmorz]

WAR ON CHINA. WAR ON EVERYBODY.

It's the only way.

[roboticnissan]

Hey fuck canada! I mean china

[upsdude]

i bet china will get what they want because they are the usa's biggest creditor :(

[tricky_ab]

Hey fuck canada! I mean china

Errr okay :rolleyes:

[ericcastro]

Our government is a bunch of idiots.

China has owned us for a long time now.

What will happen, in WW3, is we will say fuck china, and just take all our land back, not pay em shit and take them over too.
There is no other way we can ever recover.

30 years everyone, get ready !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ZilviaKid]

Our government is a bunch of idiots.

China has owned us for a long time now.

What will happen, in WW3, is we will say fuck china, and just take all our land back, not pay em shit and take them over too.
There is no other way we can ever recover.

30 years everyone, get ready !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i was gonna say that but i didnt want to get called out again

:trogdor:

one day a gong is going to ring, every chinese person will turn to their left and kill a non asian. bam! easiest invasion ever.

[ronmcdon]

Our government is a bunch of idiots.

China has owned us for a long time now.

What will happen, in WW3, is we will say fuck china, and just take all our land back, not pay em shit and take them over too.
There is no other way we can ever recover.

30 years everyone, get ready !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I wouldn't be surprised if something like that came true within the next 20 yrs or so.

[RiversideS13]

they will steal the technology one day anyway because they have spies everywhere :coolugh:

[Touge Noob S13]

Didn't you guys hear about the knock off bullet train accident a month or two ago? The Chinese government ended up burying the the remains not even recovering bodies or anything.

[Silverbullet]

Our government is a bunch of idiots.

China has owned us for a long time now.

What will happen, in WW3, is we will say fuck china, and just take all our land back, not pay em shit and take them over too.
There is no other way we can ever recover.

30 years everyone, get ready !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

In 30 years, shit.
I'm pretty confident the Chinese military will the be one of the world's strongest, if not the strongest in 30 years. Its no secret they are trying to pushing out jet fighters and carriers. It wont be long before they get it right and start mass production- within the decade most likely.
If you look at Chinese history in the past 20 some years, they've developed what many would say is equivilant to a century's worth of development in the US.

[savannaae]

We sold ourselves to China during the Clinton fueled Walmart rise to power. Outsourced mass production and the wholesale to home mentality is what keeps us tame.

[innovation]

Am I the only one who thinks war with china would be the worst possible thing for America and a losing war?

[BustedS13]

this is a democrat's fault. i can feel it in my bones.

[lucky7]

Am I the only one who thinks war with china would be the worst possible thing for America and a losing war?

no. it's a really scary thought.

[HalveBlue]

We dug this hole ourselves.

Come get yer cheap shit!!!

[Phlip]

Am I the only one who thinks war with china would be the worst possible thing for America and a losing war?

I agree with you.
War is lost by the ones who run out of money first.

However, this is not the whole of the US's fight, it is General Motors' fight.
What GM needs to do in this is to show some balls and tell China to eat a dick, instead of just taking it on the chance that releasing the secrets won't lead to rampant copies.

We'll see how this plays out, though.

[K_style]

This is some sad stuff...

[atom]

Even if all the 1st world countries banded together and told China to get their shit together and play by the rules, what can we do? China is the one with the money and the manpower. If America and the rest of the world wanted to do anything about it they needed to do it 30+ years ago. Oh well.

.... and China isn't gonna do shit to America. And we aren't gonna do anything to them. It is mutually assured destruction of both our economies if we go hardline against one another. Both sides know it, why else would China let us keep racking up massive amounts of debt with no repayment in sight and why else would we let the Chinese government literally get away with murder. We're in it together now, better brush up on your Cantonese.

[dsastr_clan]

this is a democrat's fault. i can feel it in my bones.

ok so what do the democrats have to do with having the Chinese wanting to get a piece of GM's technology?? someone mentions the Clinton's government above and you go all stupid saying that is the democrats fault?

[drift freaq]

I agree with you.
War is lost by the ones who run out of money first.

However, this is not the whole of the US's fight, it is General Motors' fight.
What GM needs to do in this is to show some balls and tell China to eat a dick, instead of just taking it on the chance that releasing the secrets won't lead to rampant copies.

We'll see how this plays out, though.

Actually the official word on this as of now is GM is refusing the request and foregoing trying to get Chinese Subsidies for the Volt.

That is the good part. The bad part is GM is centering their Battery technology production center aka headquarters for that, IN CHINA!
Its like the idiots at GM need a good slap upside the head. Its like great congrats you are not bowing to China's outrageous demand. Though you are going to put all that technology right at their doorstep so they can easily find a way to steal it.

GM is still proving to be a bunch of idiots with a few stellar spots(Cadillac, Corvette) among the lunacy.

[BustedS13]

ok so what do the democrats have to do with having the Chinese wanting to get a piece of GM's technology?? someone mentions the Clinton's government above and you go all stupid saying that is the democrats fault?

i rarely do this, but...

*whoosh*

[Banana_Cute]

So, is it OKAY to buy Chinese products?

Maybe someday?

[ronmcdon]

Actually the official word on this as of now is GM is refusing the request and foregoing trying to get Chinese Subsidies for the Volt.

That is the good part. The bad part is GM is centering their Battery technology production center aka headquarters for that, IN CHINA!
Its like the idiots at GM need a good slap upside the head. Its like great congrats you are not bowing to China's outrageous demand. Though you are going to put all that technology right at their doorstep so they can easily find a way to steal it.

GM is still proving to be a bunch of idiots with a few stellar spots(Cadillac, Corvette) among the lunacy.

Yeah, but really what difference is it going to make whether they obtain the said technology or not.
China builds some the shittiest cars in the world and are only concerned with building stuff for cheap with no regard to safety, quality, or even the most primitive regards for ethics.
Every car company could give them all the technology in the world & Chinese car manufacturers would have no clue on how to implement in properly.

The principle in it is very tasteless though.
China has been very active in bullying foreign investors.
Think they even take a cut out of Hollywood studios, and they can b/c of the huge market they provide.
In the long run, I feel China is only hurting itself with it's abusive policies.
There are other emerging markets in the world (India, Brazil, Eastern Europe, to name a few) and it's not like China doesn't have it's own economic issues today.

[kandyflip445]

Regarding going to war, even if there is a way, wtf is the point anymore. The two countries are so far away an occupation would be pointless. The only way for someone to really 'win' would be to completely annihilate the other country with nuclear weapons.

I'm glad they aren't bowing to the pressure but to put the production center in China.../facepalm

[S14DB]

Yeah, but really what difference is it going to make whether they obtain the said technology or not.
China builds some the shittiest cars in the world and are only concerned with building stuff for cheap with no regard to safety, quality, or even the most primitive regards for ethics.
Every car company could give them all the technology in the world & Chinese car manufacturers would have no clue on how to implement in properly.
Industrial Espionage is rampant in China. That Bullet Train mentioned earlier is from stolen TGV technology.
Leaked French intelligence reports accuse China of industrial espionage | World news | The Guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/feb/01/french-reports-accuse-china-industrial-espionage)

It's not that they wouldn't be able to directly use the technology. It's more that they would trade the information to another major car company for production rights in China.

[BOROSUN]

china's old slogan: "Adhering to and improving the system of regional autonomy by ethnic minorities, so as to consolidate and develop socialist relations among different ethnic groups based on equality, solidarity, mutual assistance and harmony."

china's new slogan: "can i haz your technology."

[ericcastro]

We are going to take over Canada first, then we can finally find that northern passage.


Remember, when going to war with China, they dont care if their people starve to death. So that changes things.

[DS562]

In 30 years, shit.
I'm pretty confident the Chinese military will the be one of the world's strongest, if not the strongest in 30 years. Its no secret they are trying to pushing out jet fighters and carriers. It wont be long before they get it right and start mass production- within the decade most likely.
If you look at Chinese history in the past 20 some years, they've developed what many would say is equivilant to a century's worth of development in the US.

they also said they developed a missile that can dodge our defenses. called their bluff. chances are that piece of shit would have fallen apart mid flight anyway. they've got numbers but we've got the guns.

[ESmorz]

they've got numbers but we've got the guns.

Jim Morrison just rolled over in his grave.

[DS562]

The Doors are so overrated.

[ESmorz]

The Doors are so overrated.

Says the guy quoting them 43 years later.

[Pactin]

they also said they developed a missile that can dodge our defenses. called their bluff. chances are that piece of shit would have fallen apart mid flight anyway. they've got numbers but we've got the guns.

lmao. This image helps me sleep at night

[kingkilburn]

As soon as China develops to the point that they cease to be cheap labor their importance to America goes away. They will be nothing more than another place to sell a product. The balance of trade has been kept up through smoke and mirrors for years anyway.

I don't see open conventional war with China being much of a problem. Think of how many rebellions over such a large area they'd be dealing with. Their military has more copies and crap built equipment than the Soviets ever thought possible. I bet a Somali pirate armada could takeout that aircraft carrier.

[Motary]

Our government is a bunch of idiots.

China has owned us for a long time now.

What will happen, in WW3, is we will say fuck china, and just take all our land back, not pay em shit and take them over too.
There is no other way we can ever recover.

30 years everyone, get ready !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

WW3 is gonna be china passing your government a fat cheque and telling you to GTFO, the debt of usa to china is 10x greater than there are dollars in circulation :-/

[Jaescrub]

WW3 is gonna be china passing your government a fat cheque and telling you to GTFO, the debt of usa to china is 10x greater than there are dollars in circulation :-/

Ha Ha Ha that's rich Don't know about you but being from the south every one I know has at least 5+ guns in there home some legal some not. cuz of our relaxed gun laws I don't see any one knocking on any doors around here saying gtfo your land belongs to us.

[ericcastro]

WW3 is gonna be china passing your government a fat cheque and telling you to GTFO, the debt of usa to china is 10x greater than there are dollars in circulation :-/

And do we care ??

When it comes down to it, we break promises and make our own rules.
So we will just give em the finger and say, "whatcha gonna do about it?"

[drift freaq]

As soon as China develops to the point that they cease to be cheap labor their importance to America goes away. They will be nothing more than another place to sell a product. The balance of trade has been kept up through smoke and mirrors for years anyway.
.

QFT. Fact is the Chinese have the advantage because they do not float their currency but tie it to the dollar. The funniest part about this is they keep on telling the world that the Yuan should be the new world currency. To do that they would have to float the Yuan. At which point it would go up so much their trade advantage would go away because it cost more to manufacture products and their standard of living would rise dramatically. They rely on a extremely low standard of living to pay their workers shit wages to get ahead in the world.

China is technically holding the World's trade hostage. War will not happen, unless China allows some of its crackpot generals actually do what their mouths keep on running about. LOL

It's a financial war that China is already engaging in, with the tactics stated above.

WW3 is gonna be china passing your government a fat cheque and telling you to GTFO, the debt of usa to china is 10x greater than there are dollars in circulation :-/

This is a rather simplistic view of a complex problem. China cannot afford to just toss the debt of the U.S. that they own away like you state above. You sir do not quite understand just how much China relies on the trade situation with the U.S.
The U.S. is still one of the largest consumers in the world. China needs to be able to sell product to the U.S. That is part of the reason they wound up buying so much U.S. debt. Do they feel they own to much? Yes but it would kill them economically to just write it off, like you propose above.

In fact they want the U.S. to prosper and reduce that debt so they do not own as much. If America prospers then they are not at the same advantage they have now. Like I said earlier its a lot more complex than it appears.

So its a delicate dance on their part. LOL

[kingkilburn]

WW3 is gonna be china passing your government a fat cheque and telling you to GTFO, the debt of usa to china is 10x greater than there are dollars in circulation :-/

The thing about a valuable fiat currency is that the amount in circulation means nothing. It's all about perception and the perception is that it is valuable and plentiful. The value of all the dollars in the world far surpasses that of all the euros or pounds.

[ericcastro]

In fact they want the U.S. to prosper and reduce that debt so they do not own as much. If America prospers then they are not at the same advantage they have now.


IMO that will never happen again. WE might get a little better from this slump, but this country's pyramid scam based system of government has run its course.

[tricky_ab]

They should follow Nissan’s lead. They are not selling the LEAF in China, but a variant using Chinese batteries and technology. Not even branded as a LEAF. Now if they want to sign and pay for a license agreement, that is a completely different situation...