M'Sport fitment question

[bchumley]

wanting to purchase the 30mm wide rear quarters from M'Sport. Just not sure if the 30mm is the correct width to fit an 18x9.5 +12 offset 5Zigen FNO1R-C.

Also, anyone have pics of the wide rear quarters up close? hard to get a good idea of what they look like up close in a full body shot.

Thanks.

[Dousan_PG]

those will be fine.

go find pics of the signal cars for 30mm wide rear fenders

[Vopt]

Are you sure? 30mm flare in the rear and 18x9.5 12 offset sounds pretty weak to me.

[Dousan_PG]

weak as in it wont fit?
or weak in as it will be sunk?

should be ok
on stock fenders 9.5 +12 you need like -4 to 5 degrees camber or more i think.

with 9" +15 you need at least -3 to -3.25
another 1/2 inch and 5mm is a lot

[Vopt]

Sunk.
I dunno if this is for s13 or s13 for with a 30mm flare i was thinkin more along the lines of 18x10 1/2 lowoffset *around 10-15 with a streched tire and camber.

[Dousan_PG]

ah but you must remember

NOT everyone likes:

camber
stretched tires

playing the conservative roll

if i go wide 30mm its 10" at least. looow offset and streched w/ -2 camber


but msot people wont do taht

i'd rather give a conservative # online and have a guy slap a spacer then say do this and that make it all complex they buy the wheels and find out they need lotsa camber and end up pissed off.

most people prefer WIIDEST TIRES possible.

me, i dont hehe..

[bchumley]

it's for an S13 hatch. my hopes are to have zero camber with a nice flush look, and will probably not be on stretched tires.

[Vopt]

Wow 0 camber and flush look eh...how stupid.

[Dousan_PG]

shut up henry

hahaha

:p

[bchumley]

could you please explain why this is "stupid"? I want a wheel setup that fits a wide fender nicely. I have no reason to run negative camber, other than possible fitment problems which is what I am trying to avoid.

[Flybert]

Come on man. 0 camber? I don't even know what to say to you. You are trying to get wide fender for what? DRAG?! If so, I guess 0 camber will be cool for you so why the hell are you looking for 18x9.5 +12. You should be looking for smaller wheels with some drag radials. Do you know anything about camber? Seriously. Do you?

[Dousan_PG]

its because it kills tires fast, flybert. c'mon man, everyone knows that! :rolleyes:


(see you at dd10 dood! cant wait) :D

[Flybert]

I heard setting the toe about 2 inches in is good for tires too.

[bchumley]

yes, the wide fenders are to allow me to put on a fat drag slick, however I want a set of 18's for the many moments where I will not have the slicks on the car. I was pretty sure I understood camber until I got criticized here. I understand from experience that negative camber just to make a wheel fit gets expensive with tires. I'm no expert, hence the original question.

[silvia14]

Originally posted by bchumley
yes, the wide fenders are to allow me to put on a fat drag slick, however I want a set of 18's for the many moments where I will not have the slicks on the car. I was pretty sure I understood camber until I got criticized here. I understand from experience that negative camber just to make a wheel fit gets expensive with tires. I'm no expert, hence the original question.

more camber = more handling.....generally

hell my camber is -3.15 up front and i need more..

advanced suspensions setups (like double wishbone setup on 240sx rear) are designed to induce MORE negative camber when cornering....to provide more grip when cornering

and the positive side effect of negative camber is to allow fitting bigger/wider wheels...

The stock 240sx alignment range is

-1.5 to 0 degrees up front
-1.92 to -0.42 degrees for rear

so negative camber is desires even for the stock suspension...

[Dousan_PG]

Originally posted by silvia14
more camber = more handling.....generally

hell my camber is -3.15 up front and i need more..

advanced suspensions setups (like double wishbone setup on 240sx rear) are designed to induce MORE negative camber when cornering....to provide more grip when cornering

no you need less
the reason you feel you need more is because you keep making your contact patch smaller. reverse it and get more grip.


look at 240sx race cars and drift cars
most run MAX of -3 and that's MAX

personally i find -3 front -2 rear ideal for my car's setup (drift)

road race would be much less (halz and thx know this as well as skykikchimp and some of the other board member who are road racing/auto-x folks)

depends on car

but you keep adding mroe camber you'll lose contact patch.

[Heartwork]

hah, 0 degrees Camber....
are you forgetting that STOCK camber degree in rear are -1 to -1.25 or something close?

[silvia14]

Originally posted by dousan36
no you need less
the reason you feel you need more is because you keep making your contact patch smaller. reverse it and get more grip.


look at 240sx race cars and drift cars
most run MAX of -3 and that's MAX

personally i find -3 front -2 rear ideal for my car's setup (drift)

road race would be much less (halz and thx know this as well as skykikchimp and some of the other board member who are road racing/auto-x folks)

depends on car

but you keep adding mroe camber you'll lose contact patch.

when i jumped from -2.2 to -3.15 up front the understeer has been greatly reduced (AutoX)

so i think i have more grip up front with more negative camber???

[Dousan_PG]

that's why i said -3 is good

btw, i ran -3.5 and -4 in back
slides sooooo easy (not good for grip events)

i dont suggest more then -3 up front (and that's still more then enough). but that's just my first hand expirience

-2 back i've found to be very nice

did you change yourtire brand when added camber? that will play a huge roll too of course.

[Heartwork]

Originally posted by silvia14
when i jumped from -2.2 to -3.15 up front the understeer has been greatly reduced (AutoX)

so i think i have more grip up front with more negative camber???

thats because of Camber Gain...i wrote a post an re-iterated twice in the Tech forum for "How to do Negative Camber" but no one seems to listen:hammer:

Originally posted by Heartwork in high performance driving camber change (positive gain) will occur when the suspension travels bump/rebound...when this happens, you will partially lose contact patch unless travel is limited with 0 or postive camber settings....that is why negative camber to a degree is desired


Originally posted by Heartwork i.e. if u had 0 or positive camber and u corner thru a corner the suspension will bound and rebound, the tires will gain positive camber over the initial 0/+ camber settings, actually losing more contact patch, as opposed to negative camber....if u set negative camber to the front tires and go thru the same corner, you will gain positive camber, but will not reach that point where it will be more than 0 degrees camber, thus still maintaining the most contact patch....

[silvia14]

Originally posted by dousan36
that's why i said -3 is good

btw, i ran -3.5 and -4 in back
slides sooooo easy (not good for grip events)

i dont suggest more then -3 up front (and that's still more then enough). but that's just my first hand expirience

-2 back i've found to be very nice

did you change yourtire brand when added camber? that will play a huge roll too of course.

right now im -3.15 up front and -2.5 rear

before was -2.2 all around

i think the new setting is nicer....the previous setting gave me mad understeer....now it's more balanced...but i'm gonna try setting the front sway bar softer and see if it can reduce more understeer...

no i didnt change tire... the golden rule is "only change 1 thing everytime" and you'll know what's good and what's bad...

[silvia14]

Originally posted by Heartwork
thats because of Camber Gain...i wrote a post an re-iterated twice in the Tech forum for "How to do Negative Camber" but no one seems to listen:hammer:



of course i know more negative camber will give me more grip when cornering...

but dousan said im having too much negative camber......

can you link your thread?

[bchumley]

Well, thanks for the information.

No thanks go to those who are quick to belittle people who are uneducated on a subject.

[sykikchimp]

Originally posted by Heartwork
thats because of Camber Gain...i wrote a post an re-iterated twice in the Tech forum for "How to do Negative Camber" but no one seems to listen:hammer:

NO..

When the suspension is in a BUMP situation, you GAIN NEGATIVE camber. This is part of DYNAMIC camber. You can also increase dynamic camber by increasing caster. This will induce more camber when the steering wheel is turned.

The 3.15 of which silvia14 was talking is called STATIC camber.

3 degrees is a lot on street tires. 3-4 degrees is good for r-compounds only (grip). In order to KNOW how much camber you need, get a pyrometer, and check tire temps on the outside edge, middle, and inside edge. Temperature should be close to even all across. Increasing negative camber will increase the temp of the inside of the tire, and the decreasing it will increase outside shoulder temps.

edit - also remember the more camber you have, the less braking force you have.

[Heartwork]

Originally posted by sykikchimp
NO..

When the suspension is in a BUMP situation, you GAIN NEGATIVE camber. This is part of DYNAMIC camber. You can also increase dynamic camber by increasing caster. This will induce more camber when the steering wheel is turned.



my bad, i meant to say Camber CHANGE....but i've always read that you GAIN/Positive Camber when going in bump transitions...