Bench Racing the Nurburgring in an S-chassis.

[chingon]

So I was looking at the Zonda R lap the other day (6.47) and just went about looking at the top record holders for different categories. What struck me the most was a lap record in '07 by a e46 m3 csl (7.22). This thing took the spot back then knocking the 180 lb lighter zonda F and was slightly behind a Donkervoort caterham looking thing w/a 500hp/ton ratio.

What was the most surprising was the fact that this was on a stripped 3000+ lb m3, with mostly a track prepped suspension (not unlike what is done by most serious drifters on s-chassis now adays). Add to it a rather low-tech approach of supercharging the heavy i6.

Granted the mcpherson in front and the multi-link in rear ''may be'' light years ahead of an s-chassis's, but given the 2-300 lb handicap (before stripping) I do question the silvia's potential to run w/the really big boys before having to go the custom SLA route. Is it too far fetched to think that a forced induced v8 240 could take on the likes of a zr1 or (gasp) the radicals?

PS: Before I forget, I dunno if the race car driver ran with the traction control or ABS in the e46. I've rarely heard of it being a handicap when driven to the limit in those cars, so obviously that would be a big plus to the beemer's time if equipped/activated.

[roboticnissan]

I.doubt anyone will ever try to accomplish this with an s chassis. Too many other cars to start from, that are much better than our 240s.

Could it be .done? Most likely, massive power build and there is tons of custom suspension to choose from.

[upsdude]

most 240 owners can't pony up the $$ for a new radio trim piece-i doubt someone will dump the cash to do it...anything's possible-for a price

[roboticnissan]

Well spending.the money on radio trim and building a nurburgring competitive car are two different situations.

A race car building company wouldn't put the money up to build a nurburgring comp car cuz the s chassis starts them off lower than other chassis.

[upsdude]

oh well if you're talking professional companies then yeah totally different story. i was thinking OP meant a home built car for some reason

[EsChassisLove]

It ain't cheap to run the Ring either.

[Godfoot]

thats a pretty agressive track, im really suprised that 46 m3 pulled off that run

[slowvia]

Could it be done? Probably, theres dudes out there with 1st gen Camaro's that can run circles around new corvettes, so I have no doubt that its possible. But will it ever be done? Nah, probably not.

[ILoveJDM]

I Want to see HOT VERSION cars do nurburg
:yum:

[AeroDesigns]

Maybe superlap battle should be held at the ring?? What you got Tarzan?

[chingon]

I.doubt anyone will ever try to accomplish this with an s chassis. Too many other cars to start from, that are much better than our 240s.

Could it be .done? Most likely, massive power build and there is tons of custom suspension to choose from.


Well I don't necessarily mean the 'builder' should be constrained by class racing (kind of how pikes peak is run). I guess when I started this thread I was looking more for proof positive that the chassis/geometry can be competitive by experiences/anecdotes of it beating hypercars on Statesides tracks. Is it too much to dream that it can get to that m3's level (which has a similar type of setup)?

[chingon]

It ain't cheap to run the Ring either.

I think it's like 20-50 bux w/traffic or 3500 E/hour if you want it empty. Oddly enough the M3 set the record w/traffic because on the hour they paid it poured.

[EsChassisLove]

Gotta ship the car over there. That's what I meant Haha.

But hell, if someone has the cash to build the shit out of an S chassis then they should have the cash to ship it over there.

[rik boellen]

hi there

we drive the ring verry often in a couple of s body´s
this csl is really fast even for a csl..)loaded)
it is possible to compete with the big boys! gt3rs csl´s etc..
the balance of the s/body is quite good, now the driver!!
haha

we are aiming for 8 minutes flat this weekend!
there is a sxoc meeting.

wil post some pictures afterwards

regards rik

[Antihero983]

Too many other cars are much better than our 240s.


Fixed it for you. :fruit:

[h2v7]

are there any vids of 240sx running the ring?

[simmode1]

we are aiming for 8 minutes flat this weekend!
there is a sxoc meeting.
What kind of engine/suspension/wheel/tire setup are your running & hoping to hit 8's with? I'm really interested...

[stockbee]

hi there

we drive the ring verry often in a couple of s body´s
this csl is really fast even for a csl..)loaded)
it is possible to compete with the big boys! gt3rs csl´s etc..
the balance of the s/body is quite good, now the driver!!
haha

we are aiming for 8 minutes flat this weekend!
there is a sxoc meeting.

wil post some pictures afterwards

regards rik

I wanna see pictures of the cars you guys are tracking on the Nurburgring!

[chingon]

there's a few 200sx vids on youtube. Some s14 sr20 running 8:30 w/not much done to it

[rik boellen]

this is my mates car

s13:
gp sport body-kit
charge wide fenders front and rear
rotora wing
intrax custom race suspention
custom intrax front antirol bar
whiteline rear anti rol bar
cusco 1,5 way diff
complete rose joint angliment arm kit
bushes etc.
toyo r888 front 225/40/18 rear 245/40/18
rotora big brake kit 256 front and rear
h-dev maped sr20det
ca 18 gearbox
hks gt-rs
740cc nismo injectors
tomei 256 in ex cams
carbonetics single plate clutch
390hp
cage, buckets etc,.

pictures

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i19/rikboe/dikke%20wagens/IMG_7222.jpg

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i19/rikboe/dikke%20wagens/DSC_0448.jpg

[olah.inc]

Nissan 200sx S14 onboard Nordschleife on Vimeo (http://vimeo.com/4091637)

[omgRWDgoodness!]

↑ That guy lapped what...4, 5 cars?

















Including 2 Porsches and an NSX.
















With a ≈300hp SR.
















Where you at, skeptics?:mephfawk:

[zo0d]

@rik boellen:

Any clue as to why your Mate is running 225/f and 245/r even though he's running wider fenders? I would think someone trying to break 8's at the Nur would want to run something more aggressive.

[rik boellen]

this size is fine for now
the car handling and performance and grip is fine at the moment
the key is knowing the track and drive smooth.
there are stil alot of corners were we (him incl me) didnt know where it goes to.
indeed wider tires setup can improve his laptime but 8 min isnt impossible for now
hope to make some video but you are not allowed to.

gr rik

[onlydrinkkoolaid]

I like the challenge and I do feel 8mins is very achievable based on the setup but when its all said and done it comes down to the driver. I can put you behind any of the sub 7:30 second cars it doesn't mean you can drive them around that track in under 8mins...

[chingon]

↑ That guy lapped what...4, 5 cars?



weird, i only saw one lap.. on a related note, the zr1 (pilot sports) and zo6 (run flats) times (6 sec difference on an 8 min track) were done by a GM engineer and the zonda r is on race rubber i think

[chingon]

hope to make some video but you are not allowed to.

gr rik

why? How do so many others get away with it? Rule change? (i heard bikers aren't allowed anymore). Maybe they're afraid ppl will break the official records on $40k builds :D

[rik boellen]

it was a verry good weekend.

he didnt get the 8min flat but 8:17 with a lot of traffic and two corners shut down because of accidents.

a sxoc.nl forum member did drive 7;56 so the time is done for him. haha (it is possible)


pictures of sunday

albert in his 7:56 car

Touristenfahrten 28.08.2011 - IMG 3090 touristenfahrten 28082011 - (http://www.vln-pix.com/coppermine/displayimage.php?album=121&pid=33584#)

Touristenfahrten 28.08.2011 - IMG 3225 touristenfahrten 28082011 - (http://www.vln-pix.com/coppermine/displayimage.php?album=121&pid=33547#)

niels his car

Touristenfahrten 28.08.2011 - IMG 4276 touristenfahrten 28082011 - (http://www.vln-pix.com/coppermine/displayimage.php?album=121&pid=34104#)

Touristenfahrten 28.08.2011 - IMG 4672 touristenfahrten 28082011 - (http://www.vln-pix.com/coppermine/displayimage.php?album=121&pid=34366#)

indeed you can't offical film there they dont want a competition during the touristenfahrt(because it is a public road paid by tax , most people who filmed are lucky the get away with it. there are story's that they pound their tape's.. haha

my personal meaning is that: no bikers on the ring. its to dangerous for them. when it goes wrong they are hurt verry badly.(heard that there was 1 biker killed last sunday)


gr rik

[simmode1]

Other than the headlights and wing, this car is hot...
http://www.vln-pix.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10002/normal_IMG_3225_touristenfahrten_28082011.jpg

[chingon]

Other than the headlights and wing, this car is hot...
http://www.vln-pix.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10002/normal_IMG_3225_touristenfahrten_28082011.jpg

i think most of the car (including lights) looks sharp. The wing is kind of a necessary evil I reckon. Any specs on this bad boy?



indeed you can't offical film there they dont want a competition during the touristenfahrt(because it is a public road paid by tax , most people who filmed are lucky the get away with it. there are story's that they pound their tape's.. haha

my personal meaning is that: no bikers on the ring. its to dangerous for them. when it goes wrong they are hurt verry badly.(heard that there was 1 biker killed last sunday)


gr rik

Gotta figure out a way to hide those cameras in the cockpit ;) Shouldn't be too hard w/newer ones coming out smaller and smaller every day (even if it's a measly 520x480 definition). I'm thinking laptop webcam...

as far as bikers, they should have their days too...(which i'm guessing they probably already do?). Nothing but bikes on the ring to keep everyone happy.

[simmode1]

i think most of the car (including lights) looks sharp.
If those are the Circuit Sports headlights that used to be on ebay years ago, you should see them up close...

[chingon]

If those are the Circuit Sports headlights that used to be on ebay years ago, you should see them up close...

i've been out of the 240 loop for quite a few years. Only ones I had seen like them were from japan. I had a hard time differentiating that s13 from a 944 to be honest.

[olah.inc]

this was me couple days ago

http://f.666kb.com/i/bx8hsmf4j4f51nzc6.jpg

car did a good job

[mrflip69]

Dude, if you haven't yet, start posting in nissanroadracing.com where people can actually appreciate this sort of stuff.

olah.inc: What kind of engine/suspension/tire setup are you running? Not running a rear wing? What kind of speeds were you hitting..

[superbike81]

Where you at, skeptics?:mephfawk:


Ummmm, really? Do you not understand that the biggest part of the equation is the driver? Just because he passed a few "faster" cars doesn't prove the S-chassis is more capable than they are. They could have had terrible drivers, or problems with the car, or just not known the track very well.

That one lady Sabine or whatever her name is lapped at nearly 10 minutes flat in a fucking bone stock transit van. Because she's a good driver and knows the track like the back of her hand.

I have no doubt that a fully built and well balanced S-Chassis could do well on the ring, probably in the low 8-minute range, with a good driver of course. But someone could do the same with just about any other car.

[Firestorm]

right, the key to a fast time on the nordschleife isnt a fast car, it is knowledge of the course. since its almost 21 kms long, it takes quite some time to really know the course. figuring out a decent line takes another 50 to 100 laps i'd guess. and since the asphalt on the nordschleife is completely different from a "normal" racetrack (the surface is more like a public street) the track has different levels of grip, so that is also hard to figure out and to adjust to.

sabine schmitz (the woman who drove the transit) also drives a ring taxi, does long distance racing including the 24hrs on the nürburgring and she basically grew up on the ring (her mother owns a hotel right at the ring). in terms of track knowledge, there are very few drivers who measure up against her.

so the car truly isnt the biggest factor. this year i drove with my P10 primera (i'm still working on the S13) and managed to take over quite a few cars which are considered faster than mine, even a porsche, but that guy didn't know what he was doing, so that doesnt count. the primera isnt really prepared for the track either (bilstein dampers, eibach springs, stock brakes, S13 wheels with hankook street tires) so i overheated my tires, killed my brake pads and warped my rotors. but i had fun, so whatever.

okay, i'm getting off topic, so my opinion:
yes, you CAN build an S chassis to be fairly competitive on the ring. but there are newer cars that are more capable in stock form, so by the time you built a track spec S-chassis, you could've probably gotten another car that performs as well as your track car and can still be street driven.

[mattack69]

Empty or not will not make or break you there obviously. if you do not know this place, the track is cold, slightly damp, or there are a lot of wrecks you can kiss that 29 euro lap goodbye. Not that i'm out there for hardcore status or anything but the most common issues on the track is fucking bikes.. GD mofo never yield to a car, or hog the whole fucking lane. It's ridiculous. Rik did you ever run your 8 min lap yet? Closest I got to a solid time (10:03) we had a Lotus spin-out the turn after the first carousel and slowed us down a bit. Anyways here are some pics of my hooptie:

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c106/mattack69/Nurburgring%202011/DSC_98991.jpg

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c106/mattack69/Nurburgring%202011/DSC_0294.jpg

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c106/mattack69/Nurburgring%202011/IMG_2907.jpg

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c106/mattack69/Nurburgring%202011/IMG_3215.jpg

[xpertsnowcarver]

Dude, if you haven't yet, start posting in nissanroadracing.com where people can actually appreciate this sort of stuff.

olah.inc: What kind of engine/suspension/tire setup are you running? Not running a rear wing? What kind of speeds were you hitting..

Yea, seriously. You guys need to jump on NRR.

I want to road race Nurburg... Fucking jealous...

Fantastic pictures by the way. Thank you

[PoorMans180SX]

Ummmm, really? Do you not understand that the biggest part of the equation is the driver? Just because he passed a few "faster" cars doesn't prove the S-chassis is more capable than they are. They could have had terrible drivers, or problems with the car, or just not known the track very well.

That one lady Sabine or whatever her name is lapped at nearly 10 minutes flat in a fucking bone stock transit van. Because she's a good driver and knows the track like the back of her hand.

I have no doubt that a fully built and well balanced S-Chassis could do well on the ring, probably in the low 8-minute range, with a good driver of course. But someone could do the same with just about any other car.

I have zero doubt that a well setup S-chassis with a good track tire could do mid 7-minute times.

A STOCK R34 GT-R ran 7:58...

You have to be dumb to not realize that the S-chassis has BIG potential.

I'll point this car out again:

http://ll.speedhunters.com/u/f/eagames/NFS/speedhunters.com/Images/Casey%202011/August/WTAC/Snaps/Speedhunterslogo.jpg

10th place in WTA with a 1:33.0620 and only a few shakedown runs. And the Scorch Racing S15 did 1:31.4560. Bloody fast, especially when the Cyber Evo did 1:28.851, and I guarantee no Ferrari is going to touch that Evo without some modifications itself.

What people don't realize is that when you buy a Porsche or a Ferrari or whatnot, you're not just paying for outright performance. You're paying for quality. Hand stitched leather. Amazing paint. Basically an amazing all around package right out of the box. This really doesn't have much to do with the outright potential of the car once you go about modifying it. Yes, a well-designed chassis helps, but once you start putting WRC style cages in cars, it's really 6 of one, half dozen of the other.

[rik boellen]

[QUOTE=mattack69;4270064]Empty or not will not make or break you there obviously. if you do not know this place, the track is cold, slightly damp, or there are a lot of wrecks you can kiss that 29 euro lap goodbye. Not that i'm out there for hardcore status or anything but the most common issues on the track is fucking bikes.. GD mofo never yield to a car, or hog the whole fucking lane. It's ridiculous. Rik did you ever run your 8 min lap yet? Closest I got to a solid time (10:03) we had a Lotus spin-out the turn after the first carousel and slowed us down a bit. Anyways here are some pics of my hooptie:



i did not drive the ring myself(last year) because my car is in a rebuild,..
i'm ayming 2012 to drive and adjust the car to my standards,.. aero suspention etc,..
and i need a lot more laps to know the track..

[rik boellen]

a uk forum member did 7:40. (never spoken this guy but my mate did)
he want to attack his own time and hit the barrier verry hard and written off his car and he is rebuilding it at the moment

a film on youtube while drifting
Nurburgring '07 Drifting - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfK2-gASt9c&feature=related)


conclusion of this tread is

Yes!!! it is possible to keep up with the big boys in their expensive toys!!!

haha..