Energy Suspension Black vs Red

[warauto]

hello people,
I recently decided to replace the bushings on my s14, the tension rod bushings, steering rack bushings and control arms bushings are going to go.

Recently after some research I have found that the black poly energy suspension bushings are impregnated with graphite which helps them with lubrication. I hear this is a big problem because the red ones dry out and start to squeak, if not lubed on a constant basis.

I have also read that the graphite impregnated bushings are less likely to rebound when used in compression bushing applications, such as the tension rod bushings and motor mounts in general.

My question, is should i go red for tension, black for CA and red for steering rack? I am very indecisive and opinions?

[s14unimog]

Ya know, I really didn't expect this when I clicked on your thread. I have never heard of what you are describing but it might help us all if you would reference this reading material you found on this subject. I can say that my black ES bushings on my diff didn't survive very long. This seems to support your theory about their use in compression (the worm clamps are there to keep the pieces from falling out - sort of a track day fix)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v721/s14unimog/SubframeOverhaul-06-05-117.jpg

[HS13KLS]

either way it wont matter significantly. put in the red one if you want to see it. black one if you dont.

[R_G]

you can always install a zerk fitting for the red poly's. Notch the inside of the bushing housing so the grease has a place to go. Grease them every 3 to 6 month and done.

[HYPNOTIK]

I've never heard this before either. I've had both the black and the red ones on my steering rack and didn't notice a difference other than they were both much better than the stock ones. I've had red ones on my sway bar/endlinks for over a year and they still don't squeak.

[word sux]

I was told this when I was ordering mine so I went with the black ones

[iLagX]

black is better!! and its not the color!!

[warauto]

Thanks guys, I did order the black ones. As far as referencing goes, the information about the material properties can be found on the energy suspension website.

[warauto]

Ya know, I really didn't expect this when I clicked on your thread. I have never heard of what you are describing but it might help us all if you would reference this reading material you found on this subject. I can say that my black ES bushings on my diff didn't survive very long. This seems to support your theory about their use in compression (the worm clamps are there to keep the pieces from falling out - sort of a track day fix)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v721/s14unimog/SubframeOverhaul-06-05-117.jpg


This surely makes me think twice about replacing my Diff bushings with ES.

[sr20sean]

im looking at a set of each right now? theres no difference?

[Bbsalexaz]

im looking at a set of each right now? theres no difference?

http://www.freesmileys.org/custom/image/grey%5E_%5Earial%5E_%5E3%5E_%5E4%5E_%5EWE GOT A WINNER%5E_%5E.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org/custom)

[S14Driftr91]

wow ive never heard anything like this before. i just recently got the black subframe bushings and the black diff bushings too.

[Tantwoforty]

i heard black is softer... but i cant confirm that

[az_240]

ES bushings suck in the control arms/uprights... just thought I'd warn you guys.

[Firestorm]

i had ES bushings in my rear spindles for two years, i recently removed the spindles from the car and the bushings still look like new.

i think the parts that really suck are the multi-piece bushings for the front tension rods and front LCAs.

also i wouldnt use the subframe inserts, seems like a bandaid on a gunshot wound.

on diff bushings i would probably go solid, after all, every S13 subframe has the diff pumpkin mounted solid, so why bother with PU or rubber bushings on S14s...

[az_240]

Those ES bushings are bad for anything that requires rotation within the bushing. Try moving your rear suspension up and down with the shock disconnected.... it's damn near impossible with the ES bushings. They overload the poor quality dampers everyone uses and create a bouncy/poor quality ride.

I tried the zerk fittings and that didn't help one bit.

With sphericals it takes much less force letting the strut do its job properly. Nismo bushings aren't a bad solution but have a limited range of motion.

[warauto]

I've heard varying arguments for ES bushings on the hold. I definitely need to replace my front control arm and tension rod bushings. They have been compromised.

[warauto]

i had ES bushings in my rear spindles for two years, i recently removed the spindles from the car and the bushings still look like new.

i think the parts that really suck are the multi-piece bushings for the front tension rods and front LCAs.

also i wouldnt use the subframe inserts, seems like a bandaid on a gunshot wound.

on diff bushings i would probably go solid, after all, every S13 subframe has the diff pumpkin mounted solid, so why bother with PU or rubber bushings on S14s...

I'll be working on my rear suspension soon. I had no idea s13's came with solid diff bushings. I might entertain that idea when decide to work on the back.

[s13_coupekilla]

I just plan on getting solid diff bushings and subframe bushings forget rubber bushings on that as far as sway bar and endlinks i'll probably go es black.

[az_240]

I'll be working on my rear suspension soon. I had no idea s13's came with solid diff bushings. I might entertain that idea when decide to work on the back.

s13 diffs don't come with bushings at all... it's just a solid mount deal.

That's why it's best to just get a s13 housing so you don't have to worry about spending money on solid bushings.

Also Nismo sells the front LCA bushings for only $10 each and they are 10x better than poly.

[warauto]

Thanks for the advice man.....its well appreciated. Where could the "nismo" bushings be bought ?

[s14unimog]

Those ES bushings are bad for anything that requires rotation within the bushing. Try moving your rear suspension up and down with the shock disconnected.... it's damn near impossible with the ES bushings. They overload the poor quality dampers everyone uses and create a bouncy/poor quality ride.

I swapped my hardware when installing my bushings and have changed to nyloc's with case washers for the nut side. If you back off a tad on that tq. you can actually get a smooth range of motion with them. I've owned another s14 with these in the control arms and spindles. Wasn't nearly the "bouncy/poor" quality ride you describe.

[az_240]

The bushings stick out past the inner sleeves so when you tighten the suspension arms it creates a sandwich effect and the bushings now have more friction against the arms making it harder for them to rotate on the inner sleeve. You could put some washers against the inner sleeve to help relieve this. I shaved the bushings down a little on each side so the sleeve was flush with the bushing which is essentially the same thing.

It only improved slightly... so I tried cutting grooves out of the bushings for grease fittings thinking that should help but it didn't. Even tried several different greases (the ES grease was the best of what I tested) Ended up being a waste of time and money...the inner sleeve is just too tight against the bushing.

Gave in and got Driftworks knuckles which don't have much of an issue with stiction since they have poly that rotates on the outer diameter of the bushing. The powdercoat finish creates a smooth surface for the bushing to rotate on.

I was thinking you might get the ES bushings to work by sanding out and polishing the knuckles a bit so they now rotate on the OUTER diameter like the driftworks knuckles instead of that inner sleeve....might actually do that with my RLCAs now that I think about it... HMMM

[warauto]

I swapped my hardware when installing my bushings and have changed to nyloc's with case washers for the nut side. If you back off a tad on that tq. you can actually get a smooth range of motion with them. I've owned another s14 with these in the control arms and spindles. Wasn't nearly the "bouncy/poor" quality ride you describe.

Hey, could you post pictures of the above said method thanks.

[travypoo]

I am running the black ES on my front and rear sway bars + endlinks. also in the steering rack. big change in how the car felt. havent had an issue with the bushings in the last couple years

[s14unimog]

Hey, could you post pictures of the above said method thanks.

Of what, the hardware?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v721/s14unimog/FLCAenergysuspensionbushings020.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v721/s14unimog/FLCAenergysuspensionbushings011.jpg