vq swaps any easier now a days?

[rb25crazy]

was wondering if vq swaps are getting any easier now a days. figured it might be after several years and people dropping it into cars.

namely for the 240 was wondering if there are any places that sell drop in stuff like sikky does for the ls1.

[Nintensity]

I would like to know this as well.. i'm leaning towards getting a VQ sometime in the future in my s14...

[srstan]

come on guys....its called google.

VQ-240sx swap Products McKinney Motorsports (http://mckinneymotorsports.com/prod_VQ-240sx+swap)

[rb25crazy]

yeah, i've seen mckinney stuff... but the website can't spell... and is horribly put together... that just makes me wonder.

[dudermagee]

yeah, i've seen mckinney stuff... but the website can't spell... and is horribly put together... that just makes me wonder.

yeah I've thought the same thing myself
I haven't seen any swaps with their stuff either, its all custom as far as I've seen

[turtle m3th]

I am more so curious about the wiring of this swap myself. I understand that there are mounting solutions, and wiring solutions as well, but a nice collection of resources would be great. Kind of like what they've got in the tech section for certain swaps.

[JKL1031]

Yea, I thought about a VQ in mines as well. neighboors seem to have a G35 that they've wrecked, and its just parked.

[s13 @ fullboost]

My buddy told me it was a bitch he has one In his car " its not so much hard as it is time consuming"

[K_style]

Yea, I thought about a VQ in mines as well. neighboors seem to have a G35 that they've wrecked, and its just parked.


Should stop what >?

[KansaiDrifter]

I love mine, I daily drive it and drift the stuffing out of it. It's a underrated engine in my book. Turbocharged there is a ton of potential. ~450rwhp @ ~12psi (big single), on a de engine. The HR engines run 300rwhp stock with catback and intake. My only thing is that I'm going to try and find the longer gear for my diff, the 4.1/4.3 are a bit short. The 4.3 is so short that I start in 2nd and 6th is like 5th in a s chassis. I've got a build thread in the chat section. Zfever can make the harness and ecu literally plug and play though and still drive by wire. I'm saving right now to hopefully go turbo with pistons/rods and studs for next season hehehehe.

[punxva]

i mean my roommate just swapped one into his 86, with a z fever harness it was a breeze, then again we made everything for it, but if your not good at making stuff then try buying one of the kits.

[towlie]

I'd say with the amount of information now available and the kits, yes it is easy(er)

[rb25crazy]

well, i'm talking more like sikky easy haha, where everything is neat and looks prof. maybe another year or two heh before that ever happens.

[drift freaq]

the problem has been that no one has shown much interest in any large amounts to warrant making a install kit. I was originally going to do it. Though while I was formulating the stuff to do it I watched others try and make kits and market them. None of them sold. McKinney has a kit because McKinney is specifically in the engine swap kit business already.
It allowed them to defray potential costs and migrate some of their swap idea's directly over to their VQ kit.
I am not extremely impressed with their kit. Of course I have never been impressed with any of their kits.
They only got a decent RB market because their were the first to market, not the best.

That aside I will impart some knowledge here. I originally was going to just drop an ordinary VQ into my car. I then decided to go with the HR because cause it was 80% different than previous VQ's and was vastly superior. It is also over an Inch taller. LOL

If you want to put an HR in your car then you will have to modify your front crossmember so you can get it low enough to clear your hood. Now this will not hang your pan to low.

If you want to install a DE or RevUp then you can do it with no crossmember modification. Your hood will close.

Now honestly its cool to finally see more interest. Though truthfully the 240 community has gotten so cheap these days that I do not see any possibility of doing a kit. As it wouldf most likely be a losing proposition financially.

In my opinion, most of the companies making LSX install kits would not bother on a VQ. Most of them feel that LSX has inherent superiority. I will not get into that. It is a good engine and I will leave it at that.

Z fever is not the only place for wiring, Lots of places can do a Osiris ECU flash which eliminate the needs for using the BCM and other stuff that previously made the wiring hard.

Indeed with a ecu flash the wiring is pretty much very close to wiring a SR.

A few of us here in California are working towards doing the swap in a Carb referee legal setup.

I do think they are good engines but unless you are trying to go smog legal in your car, there are lots of other swaps.
In other words at least in California if your going to do the swap it would be because you want to be smog legal with 300HP.
The only other engine that falls into that catagory is the LS1 but again not many people have even attempted to make their LS1 swaps legal.

To me that is the whole point of doing the VQ swap. Smog legal with HP. There for swaps done in Florida mean nothing because they do not have smog laws anyways. HAHAHAHA

I will say I will have a set of engine mounts for the install. As I did them for the sake of my own swap. Though I am still messing around with positioning at this point.

[rb25crazy]

yup carb smog legal is what im talking bout. i just want something that i can leave stock, but with a lot more power. the vq fits the bill. the ls swap is cool and all but i hear it's hard to get it carb legal so. plus, i think vq's are cheaper then the ls swap since those t56 transmissionscan go for quite a bit jesus. and i guess i'm just a little bit of a fanboy, hehe.

do you think you will make some kits possibly? since you are making one for yourself anyway? or is it just a no go all around, just wondering.

i think the main problem with the previous vq swap kits etc... were that they were never complete and always had a bunch of loose ends. i believe if there is a 100% solution available it would fair a lot better, just my 2 cents. that's what had me on the fence personally, since i am not the most mechanically inclined person in the world.

[upsdude]

what's the cost total for a vq or HR swap? i mean if the costs are similar to an ls swap i'd go with the v8-but that's just me.

[drift freaq]

what's the cost total for a vq or HR swap? i mean if the costs are similar to an ls swap i'd go with the v8-but that's just me.

This is a good question. I will try and break it down.

cost of a DE engine and trans setup these days is around 1k maybe less. I have seen some amazing prices

Cost of HR engine and trans setup is definitely higher. Best deal would be around $1500 average is in the 2-3k range.


cost of ECU flash for either engine setup is the same. $350-450.

Cost of wiring for standard wiring i.e. non mil spec is around $300-375.

If you are going to do a HR then you are looking at spending money for a crossmember mod.

If you are going with a DE no extra cash here

no matter what engine you put in you will buy an aluminum radiator so that is a non issue.

doing your exhaust up is another issue that will happen with both swaps so it does not matter in this breakdown.

Now on the mount front most people will try and use the stock engine mounts. I prefer going with mine for two reasons 1. they are 80 durometer and will hold up better. 2. they will drop the engine a bit lower than stock mounts.

my mounts will be $120 if for some crazy reason I do a kit I may not sell the mounts separately. lol

No there are only a couple of things left to deal with the smog legal part and it has to do with our cars being fuel return evap setups and 350Z's being non fuel return evap setups.
This is something we are actually totally working on currently concept wise.
Get all this stuff sorted and then you are talking about taking the car to the ref and getting him to sign off on the swap. If he does you get a sticker and then you smog the car like you would have smogged a 350.

This is the part that can be tricky but the thing is its just as tricky with the LSx swaps. Its entirely up to the ref and some refs are asswipe's that cannot see beyond their own noses. Done right either swap (VQ or LSX) there should be no problem. Again it all depends on particular ref you decided to go to.

I will add no one as of yet has actually ref'd a LSX swap that I know of. They have stock header cat fitment issues that are worse than the VQ's. Which makes most people opt for non legal aftermarket headers.

so quick recap on pricing

DE engine trans setup cost under 1k( if you are lucky ) otherwise $1k-1500
ecu flash 375-450
wiring 375

misc another 1k

HR engine trans setup costs $1500( if you are lucky) -3k
ecu flash 375-450
wiring 375

misc another $1500 at least.

so seriously unless you get a hookup on a LSX swap you are sitting in HR expense range.

Or if you want a CARB legal GM E rod kit 7k.

I think that some people want to stick with NIssan in a Nissan for purist reason. At the same time, I can tell you If I got a LSX for the right price, even I would consider that route.

[rb25crazy]

haha yeah i just checked craigs... de motors/trans are sub 1,000 or tipping over 1,000 by a little bit. that would be an amazing swap imo. well, i see ls1's still go for around 1000+ and no transmissions most of the time. i think the DE is a cheaper swap imo. i mean.... if you want it street legal 280hp is plenty imo haha.... its not like you can floor it all day in traffic anyway. that's just me. plus, i think if the motor ever blows it's cheaper to just find another de anyway for the most part. since everyone likes their ls1 ^_^. just a nice cheaper alternative with a little lesser power.

the hr swap is cool too, but cheaper is better, i dont really need all that extra power hah. even with my stock ka i feel like it's "enough" power i never really feel the need for extra since i just daily my car anyway. but, again that's just me... i'm probably a super noob.

what i really want is the sound haha... the ka sounds like shit. i still like the grunt of the 350z stock so hehe.

[drift freaq]

haha yeah i just checked craigs... de motors/trans are sub 1,000 or tipping over 1,000 by a little bit. that would be an amazing swap imo. well, i see ls1's still go for around 1000+ and no transmissions most of the time. i think the DE is a cheaper swap imo. i mean.... if you want it street legal 280hp is plenty imo haha.... its not like you can floor it all day in traffic anyway. that's just me. plus, i think if the motor ever blows it's cheaper to just find another de anyway for the most part. since everyone likes their ls1 ^_^. just a nice cheaper alternative with a little lesser power.

the hr swap is cool too, but cheaper is better, i dont really need all that extra power hah. even with my stock ka i feel like it's "enough" power i never really feel the need for extra since i just daily my car anyway. but, again that's just me... i'm probably a super noob.

what i really want is the sound haha... the ka sounds like shit. i still like the grunt of the 350z stock so hehe.

Well from a cost perspective a DE swap is definitely cheaper than a LSX swap or a HR swap. The thing is this. Once you do a LSX swap you are looking at making suspension and wheel mods to handle the extra torque. Mind I said torque rather than HP. Many people focus on HP numbers rather than looking at Torque numbers.

Both the DE and HR put out considerable TQ stock. With the right intake(plenum) and exhaust setup even a DE could turn out 300 whp which would easily be up in the upper TQ numbers as well.

People forget that a SR's TQ numbers will never be those of a 6 or 8 no matter the HP. The bigger engines just have more grunt. Oh and that is what gives you the acceleration feel.

The real question comes down to, do you want a easily drivable setup VS something that may take work for it to be drivable.
With a DE or a HR you are already getting into the terribly quick range. Hehehehe

Oh and with the right exhaust setup the engine sounds downright exotic.

[Jukebox]

So are their any known problems in passing smog and ref station for the vq swap as there was for the lsx swap with their header clearance?

Like Drift Freak was saying is that the majority of people doing this swap will be to pass emissions, but if its just as blurry or difficult as the ls swap...it doesn't make sense.

[drift freaq]

So are their any known problems in passing smog and ref station for the vq swap as there was for the lsx swap with their header clearance?

Like Drift Freak was saying is that the majority of people doing this swap will be to pass emissions, but if its just as blurry or difficult as the ls swap...it doesn't make sense.

The known problems here in California are the refs themeselves. LOL jokes and truthful jokes aside the other thing that has been the big issue is the fuel tank stuff. 350 is returnless with the evap cannister in the back. It also ties in a fuel pressure and or temp from the tank directly to the ecu. This is smog stuff you would not be able to get around so you have to get that sorted. That is what we are working on conceptually right now. My boy thinks he has the work around but we have yet to test it.

As for the exhaust all you need to for the clearance is clock the flange for bolting up your cats so they don't hit and are in the proper place to make a picky ref happy.

Now the thing that has always cracked me up is the guys who do the swap and just go completely non legal. At that point its why bother.

The purpose of the VQ or the LSX swap is to be legal. If you can't do either swap legally, then there is no reason to them. As there are some great illegal Nissan engines you could run with less hassle.

Unless all you are trying to do is be Billy Badass in the 240 world. LOL

[lewisfk]

^^beside the engine, mounts, and trans what drive shaft do u use?

[upsdude]

which engine had the oil consuption issues....the de or hr?

^^beside the engine, mounts, and trans what drive shaft do u use?
i'd just get a new 1 piece shaft


I think that some people want to stick with NIssan in a Nissan for purist reason. At the same time, I can tell you If I got a LSX for the right price, even I would consider that route.

a vq or HR swap sounds like an ideal swap for someone who wants a fun to drive daily driver/weekend track car...i've always liked the g35/350z exhaust note. even in stock form it has a nice tone to it.

[drift freaq]

which engine had the oil consuption issues....the de or hr?


i'd just get a new 1 piece shaft



a vq or HR swap sounds like an ideal swap for someone who wants a fun to drive daily driver/weekend track car...i've always liked the g35/350z exhaust note. even in stock form it has a nice tone to it.

yes on the driveshaft question a one piece is indeed the way to go. In fact you have to. The 350 driveshafts are carbon and they are not the right length for our cars. you just need the input yolk and your rear flange face and just measure out and have it made.

The HR is a VQ if that is what you meant. I think it is an ideal swap for a daily. Not the LSX swap could be a daily. Though you would be treading lightly on the gas pedal. LOL
DE's are not a bad way to go. Sure they are not as insanely awesome as the HR but they are a decent engine.
Look at it as the HR is the more in the vein of an RB26. It was the foundation for the VQ38. The DE was not.
The DE is more like an RB25 in my opinion.

The RevUp was the oil consumption engine and here is the dirty little secret I am about to let out of the bag on it. Hook an oil catch can setup up to a RevUp and it solves the oil consumption issue. This comes straight from tech guys at Nissan.

Now the thing to keep in mind here is the RevUp is rated at 300 HP the HR is rated at 306. Though the HR is 80% different that 80% being a stronger block, longer connecting rods to shorten the stroke which raises the redline 500 rpm.

[Jukebox]

Agreed on the hr being the better engine, but doesn't swapping the hr require you to modify the cross-member because its taller? Where as the de will just drop in?

[donandal]

Hey,
my two cents worth....
We just finished this swap VQ35HR into S13
http://zilvia.net/f/chat/384013-plusoneten-build.html
We did keep EVERY emissions component...
we modified gas tank
we put canister in spare tire area
we kept cat conv., but shortened headers...uh oh
we kept BCM and NATS
we swapped rear differential
we swapped entire wiring harness
etc......
problem areas that would need to be in legal
"KIT" plan for HR motor

front crossmember/engine mounts
starter clearance/Steering rack issue solution
ECU with reflash
Headers
cat converters
gas tank/evap emissions issues
wiring harness
tranny mount
shifter support bracket new/ or shortened with shorter linkage rework
cold air intake (optional?)
rear diff swap info ( more torque, taller gear ratio/limited slip?)
oil pan skid plate (optional?)
drive shaft specs ( one piece) need front [transmision] yoke
template for trimming stock hood braces ( nice option )
A/C line/hook ups (optional?)
power steering lines/hook ups
there is probably something else....

all of these could be either supplied or sourced

[drift freaq]

Agreed on the hr being the better engine, but doesn't swapping the hr require you to modify the cross-member because its taller? Where as the de will just drop in?

Pretty much. You still have an angle difference on the mount face which is something I am working on for both engines. Most of the swaps i have seen, people have conquered the angle difference by making the mount face on the crossmember flatter. Or you make an engine bracket to replace the factory one that is re angled. That is what most the V8 kits do.

[drift freaq]

Hey,
my two cents worth....
We just finished this swap VQ35HR into S13
http://zilvia.net/f/chat/384013-plusoneten-build.html
We did keep EVERY emissions component...
we modified gas tank
we put canister in spare tire area
we kept cat conv., but shortened headers...uh oh
we kept BCM and NATS
we swapped rear differential
we swapped entire wiring harness
etc......
problem areas that would need to be in legal
"KIT" plan for HR motor

front crossmember/engine mounts
starter clearance/Steering rack issue solution
ECU with reflash
Headers
cat converters
gas tank/evap emissions issues
wiring harness
tranny mount
shifter support bracket new/ or shortened with shorter linkage rework
cold air intake (optional?)
rear diff swap info ( more torque, taller gear ratio/limited slip?)
oil pan skid plate (optional?)
drive shaft specs ( one piece) need front [transmision] yoke
template for trimming stock hood braces ( nice option )
A/C line/hook ups (optional?)
power steering lines/hook ups
there is probably something else....

all of these could be either supplied or sourced

Ya and while I appreciate the amount of good work that went into your swap. I see no reason for the BCM, Nats, nor swapping in the rear diff. , nor swapping in the complete 350 dash including the body harness. That is an expense most people do not want to do.

Please you guys have a thread and a very good one at that but this thread is talking about it is it worth it and how feasibly economical and easy it is.

A lot of the work you guys did was actually not needed. You can run a ABS diff with a dakota digital converter for your speedo signal. Guys have done it. If you are flashing the ECU you flash the BCM and the NATS out as they have absolutely nothing to do with the emissions.

Nice swap you did, though not something easily done which is the point of this thread.

[donandal]

Your right about some of what we did not being needed...

thats why the things I listed as being needed for the PLAN for a kit
didn't include the BCM or NATS (reflash ECU is listed) etc.

the rear diff was listed as INFO for planning
I don't think you'd stick with a stock rear end

all of the remaining items were INFO, optional,or would need to be
supplied or a source/ parts list could be suggested....
for example the bracket relocating the shifter

the intent was to point out things that needed to be addressed
in an easier way....
VQ swaps any easier now days?

[drift freaq]

Your right about some of what we did not being needed...

thats why the things I listed as being needed for the PLAN for a kit
didn't include the BCM or NATS (reflash ECU is listed) etc.

the rear diff was listed as INFO for planning
I don't think you'd stick with a stock rear end

all of the remaining items were INFO, optional,or would need to be
supplied or a source/ parts list could be suggested....
for example the bracket relocating the shifter

the intent was to point out things that needed to be addressed
in an easier way....
VQ swaps any easier now days?

yes except stuff you listed was most likely not needed and does not make the swap easier. Actually getting a J30 diff which has the ABS sensor on it is an ideal thing. As it has 3.90 gearing which is the hot setup gear wise in the 350Z world. Though some 350 guys are even running 4.08's which are stock in our cars and there are 4.08 ABS diffs. If you really want to get down to brass tacks of plans for a kit.


It comes down to this.

engine mounts with a bracket of some sort to reangle them.
Shfiter bracket.
transmission mount bracket as the stock or aftermarket mounts can be used. Its been done.
Custom driveshaft which we had already talked about.
possible reclocked exhuast flange setup for clearances.

Though at this point you have entered the realm of an over $500 install kit. Now if people do most of this stuff themselves it would not cost as much.

Though asking people to pony up an extra $500 or more for the kit starts pushing it into the realm of an buying an LSX kit.

If someone sells a basic kit with the engine mounts and brackets and shifter bracket sure.



As for can a R200 diff handle the torque? It is no problem, it is a very stout diff that Nissan used in a lot of Higher HP cars than ours.

Now sure there is the dakota digital converter, and there is the issue of the fuel temp sender which actually can be worked around. Without having to do the extensive gas mods you guys did.

I was going to do a kit originally there was not enough interest. Hence (outside of Mckinney) all other kits that were started have ceased to exist.
Hence it becoming more of a project by project deal at this time.

240 people are not exactly spend happy. They want to do things in the most cost affordable way they can. Sorry but its a fact.

This is just something I have watched come about in the last few years.

Once again I give you props for your swap.

[dudewutup]

Im in the middle of a value swap right now, I think this could bring down the price of a swap substantially compared to what some other places charge for wiring.

http://zilvia.net/f/engine-tech/389016-how-wire-vq35-into-your-95-s14.html

[drift freaq]

Im in the middle of a value swap right now, I think this could bring down the price of a swap substantially compared to what some other places charge for wiring.

http://zilvia.net/f/engine-tech/389016-how-wire-vq35-into-your-95-s14.html

very cool, good info. Would love to see one on the S13.

[dudewutup]

Im completely new to the 240 scene, I may eventually get a 13 and swap it as well. But for now that's all I can give you guys to help the cause.

[lewisfk]

ya i went to zfever to check out the swap prices and that shit was insane! has anyone did a VQ35HR/ de swap under 5 grand and its reliable!

[punxva]

Night Sliders View topic - VQ'ed AE86...nuff said (http://nightslider.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=148)

[Jukebox]

@Drift Freaq: How much interest would you need to start making vq swap kits? Hard question to answer, but it seems like your very knowledgeable on this subject and your kits would probably turn out amazing.

[rb25crazy]

ahha i only want it if it's carb legal! that's the only reason why i'd want to do the motor swap!

[Jukebox]

ahha i only want it if it's carb legal! that's the only reason why i'd want to do the motor swap!

+1, but in terms of the kit, the only problem would be the steering shaft clearance. If they clear, we are good. Then from there its just a matter of the Evap components and wiring

[upsdude]

if dave develops a complete vq swap that also qualifies for CARB legal exemption, it won't be cheap. CARB exemption is not only costly but a general pain in the ass to get...question is are you guys willing to pony up the $$ for such a kit to even warrant him going through such a process.

[drift freaq]

if dave develops a complete vq swap that also qualifies for CARB legal exemption, it won't be cheap. CARB exemption is not only costly but a general pain in the ass to get...question is are you guys willing to pony up the $$ for such a kit to even warrant him going through such a process.
Herein lies the rub. If I did do a kit it would be an install kit only. It might offer wiring service for an extra charge but ref'ing the car would be up to the person installing the engine.

Getting the CARB E.O. sicker is a 10k a year proposition on top of initial fees.

There is a reason why Greddy never actually got the CARB E.O. Turbo kit for the KA. Even though they came up with the kit they realized it was going to be to much money per year per kits sold to warrant the expenditure. I.E. zero profitability. So they just stuck to selling the Turbo kit as a for off road use only situation i.e. track car. They make some money selling the kit and don't lose their ass to the state of California.

Now if the numbers were large of enough it would have made sense to make it CARB legal E.O. sticker setup.

[Jukebox]

if dave develops a complete vq swap that also qualifies for CARB legal exemption, it won't be cheap. CARB exemption is not only costly but a general pain in the ass to get...question is are you guys willing to pony up the $$ for such a kit to even warrant him going through such a process.

You mean by him making custom carb legal headers? Then no, I wouldn't pay the price for those cause they would be crazy expensive and would take like 2 years...may be exaggerating.

But something similar in terms to the sikky kit for the vq would be a seller if it allows the oem headers to clear the steering shaft which would then remain carb legal.

[DreamN]

Why are we talking about making a carb legal kit and paying for blah blah blah?

As far I know all that needs to be done to the headers is to have the heat shields dimpled in a bit for added clearance. Seems as though the wiring isn't much a hard part as just time consuming.

irax has a good shot at going CARB legal. I really hope he and Juan are able to figure everything out. If I had extra change in my pockets for this I would definitely be trying to be the first.

[drift freaq]

You mean by him making custom carb legal headers? Then no, I wouldn't pay the price for those cause they would be crazy expensive and would take like 2 years...may be exaggerating.

But something similar in terms to the sikky kit for the vq would be a seller if it allows the oem headers to clear the steering shaft which would then remain carb legal.

Its just not about the headers on the VQ in fact that is hardly even the issue. I said one thing earlier in this thread and I will add to it. The biggest issue at this time is the fact that our cars run a fuel return system and the 350 is return less.
No one has specifically clarified with a ref if they could switch the car over to return less or if they would have to a return setup. The other issue is the evap system and the in tank fuel temp sender which is part of the VQ's emission controls. This is the stuff I am trying to sort out as well as a few others are too.

The Sikky kit is not Carb legal. Their headers are not Carb legal. In fact that is the main stumbling block on running a LSX swap that would be able to get ref'd. The stock headers do not clear and the aftermarket ones that do are not E.O. 'd which means a ref would flag them.

Though the LSX is easier in the emissions department to be legal. The header issue is the issue and as far as I know no one has ref'd a LSX swap at this time.


Oh and I do not think a VQ swap kit would sell. Though there are people expressing interest I have vast experience selling stuff for 240's and can tell you people like to say they are interested and like to act like they will buy something. Most of the time when it comes down to reality, they are gone like the wind. LOL I know , jaded, cynical? First hand experience in this. LOL

Oh and like I said earlier, every time someone else as brought up the kit concept and even put out there they had one, no one ever committed.

240 people these days are a somewhat fickle bunch.

For Mckinney its a no loss situation. For everyone else its an investment.








Why are we talking about making a carb legal kit and paying for blah blah blah?

As far I know all that needs to be done to the headers is to have the heat shields dimpled in a bit for added clearance. Seems as though the wiring isn't much a hard part as just time consuming.

irax has a good shot at going CARB legal. I really hope he and Juan are able to figure everything out. If I had extra change in my pockets for this I would definitely be trying to be the first.

Jimmy I did not bring it up others did. All I did was clarify that 1. It would be costly and 2. Doing a kit at all is almost not worth it for anyone.

Though I will add if you think all it is is the headers being dimpled and some wiring you need to read this thread better.

If it was that simple it would have been done a lot sooner. It has become simpler though we are not out of the woods yet.

Ib aka Irax and I talk on a regular basis and even he knows there are a few little details he has to work out to make it fly. Trust me when we have done it we will let people know. Though even Irax's setup may run into snags.

Like I have said earlier in the thread and I am not holding any info back, its tricky. This is all based on not only which ref you go to, but also ironing a few little details out.

Can it be done? Yes it can. Can it be done as simply as you make it out to? No its just not that cut and dry yet.
Will it get done by someone in the next 6 months. Most likely.

Remember the LSX swap is even simpler and no one still has managed to get a ref'd swap as far as we know.
It does not mean its impossible it just means 1. some one gets tricky and fools a ref, as no one makes a legal header for the engine that fits our chassis.

[turtle m3th]

I already started a vq35de swap FAQ and nobody has added a single thing...

[Slammed Assassin]

my little vq build. rad is now installed ect..more videos to come.
PC0Tr6WIoYM

[JaeTea]

I'm looking to do this swap later this year for next drift season.

Good info drift freaq!

[gtrmonkey]

someone needs to do a VQ40 out a frontier/xterra/pathfinder . Basically a stroker VQ35...lots of torque and good for drifting

[drift freaq]

I already started a vq35de swap FAQ and nobody has added a single thing...

Perhaps we could get a mod or admin to take the info posts in this thread combined with info posts from Irax's thread and possible others and dump them into tine VQ35de swap FAQ.

I do know for awhile everyone was trying to figure out if they were going to do a kit and were holding on to info. Now it seems we all have decided a kit is fruitless and opened up the floodgates. LOL








someone needs to do a VQ40 out a frontier/xterra/pathfinder . Basically a stroker VQ35...lots of torque and good for drifting

Ya and completely not a legal swap smog wise as its coming out of a Truck or SUV.

The point of this thread is easy/affordable and smog legal. Most the people in here are trying to get legal 300 hp setups in their cars.
Honestly the VQ35 is already a good engine for drifting as well. By the time you're done doing a VQ40 setup you could have spent the money on a LSX swap. LOL

[Jukebox]

Are rwd vq35de and hr engine mounts in the same spot? As with external dimensions? I know the hr is ~1" taller, It's just it would be a bummer to have 2 seperate kits

[simmode1]

Since the HR is about 80% different than the DE & Revup, I'd bet on different mounts.

[irax]

Since the HR is about 80% different than the DE & Revup, I'd bet on different mounts.

sH-C0FVB0ck

For this VQ35HR to fit we used Mckinney Motorsports' engine and trans mount kit but we had to re-fabricate the driver''s side mount and notch the passenger side X-member mounting hole slightly. This allowed us to get enough clearance between the steering linkage and the starter (which is on the left side of the HR motor). We also had to make a custom steering U-joint that was a tad longer and thinner than the stock one. Lastly, we had to re-fabricate the exhaust manifolds to get them to clear the firewall properly.

[Jukebox]

So that means that the hr swaps wont be legal? bummer...

[irax]

So that means that the hr swaps wont be legal? bummer...

well... it just depends on your state/local emissions requirements. If your state requires C.A.R.B. parts and California emissions, then yeah its going to be difficult to pass. I would highly recommend talking to your local smog tech before dismissing your hopes of an HR swapped car.


also if you see the height of that engine vs the PlusONETEN build, using McKinney mounts will make it sit higher. You will probably have better clearance if you modify the crossmember like the PlusONETEN build which could eliminate other problems. But no one ever said that you can not modify the firewall....

[Chase Bays]

We make many different VQ swap parts

Search Result: VQ - ChaseBays.com (http://www.chasebays.com/search-result/VQ)

I also know of someone LOCALLY to us (not the original VQswap idiots) who's made a company dedicated to just VQ35 swap components for Nissan chassis. Making everything simple and all in one place. We're currently running some of their new products(all of them are new), testing them. They're retailing AND making their own products. Throttle Body Adapters, random block offs, Coolant hose relocation, Oil Cooler kits, Radiator...etc!

THIS site goes live Friday if I heard right...

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3006/5857468666_e4cbe48773_z.jpg

Our car on cable throttle, AEM EMS...

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5229/5857468672_dfbdf957f8_z.jpg

[irax]

with the chasebays sneaky radiator, it totally exaggerates how far back the vq sits in a 240

[DreamN]

Though I will add if you think all it is is the headers being dimpled and some wiring you need to read this thread better.

If it was that simple it would have been done a lot sooner. It has become simpler though we are not out of the woods yet.


Was talking simply for header clearance and wiring ease because other guy was making it a big deal appraently. Definitely know more is involved.

[Chase Bays]

with the chasebays sneaky radiator, it totally exaggerates how far back the vq sits in a 240

Haha yeah it opens up a lot of room, its about the same length as a KA/SR though.

[irax]

Haha yeah it opens up a lot of room, its about the same length as a KA/SR though.

thats only because of the timing cover and the way the intake manifold sits.
If some one modified kenetix maxima or 350z manifold you could push the engine further back about 1 inch or so while still maintaining awesome water pipe clearance.

http://image.importtuner.com/f/9350613+w750+st0/0605_impp_06z+kinetix_vq35de_intake_manifold+proto type.jpg


i would like to try something like the kinetix prototype manifold but with a front mounted tb like the v8s I wonder if it could make better power that way.

[simmode1]

but with a front mounted tb like the v8s I wonder if it could make better power that way.
Are you talking about like the Fast LSx manifolds? Oh god, that sounds like fucking genius! Why the hell hasn't anyone done this yet?

The VQde's intake manifold design is pretty much the only thing I don't like about this motor. I <3 symmetry...

[andrew600]

Perhaps we could get a mod or admin to take the info posts in this thread combined with info posts from Irax's thread and possible others and dump them into tine VQ35de swap FAQ.

I do know for awhile everyone was trying to figure out if they were going to do a kit and were holding on to info. Now it seems we all have decided a kit is fruitless and opened up the floodgates. LOL










Ya and completely not a legal swap smog wise as its coming out of a Truck or SUV.

The point of this thread is easy/affordable and smog legal. Most the people in here are trying to get legal 300 hp setups in their cars.
Honestly the VQ35 is already a good engine for drifting as well. By the time you're done doing a VQ40 setup you could have spent the money on a LSX swap. LOL

vq40 is no more difficult than the 35

[andrew600]

Are you talking about like the Fast LSx manifolds? Oh god, that sounds like fucking genius! Why the hell hasn't anyone done this yet?

The VQde's intake manifold design is pretty much the only thing I don't like about this motor. I <3 symmetry...
switch to a vq40 intake.

[irax]

HMMMMMMM! Plastic manifold! I'm down! I like lower intake temps! I wonder if this will bolt up to the vq35de lower intake manifold

naaaah the ports wont line up


http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d2/sandiegan05fronty/fronty/Stillen%20SuperCharger/IMG_1879.jpg?1308885489


vs this


http://image.importtuner.com/f/tech/9324940+w200/0605_impp_08z+kinetix_vq35de_intake_manifold+stain less_steel.jpg



but... i wonder if the lower intake plenum would fit though... hmmm

[simmode1]

I have no idea about the science behind it, but I'd style rather see the VQ35 get a Fast LSx style manifold...

I was searching for examples of modified Z manifolds and I definently see what you're talking about with the modded Kenetix Maxima manifold. Seems like that would be alright. But I can't really find any examples of modded OEM Z manifolds for RWD configuration, by I KNOW there are some out there... Got any examples?

[drift freaq]

vq40 is no more difficult than the 35

Its not a question of difficulty and you missed the point of my post. ITS NOT LEGAL! Why? It comes out of a Truck/SUV which do not have the same emission standards.
Again I will say this, for people like the one who posted above. The point of this swap is to be legal. IF you do not do a legal version you might as well just toss a SR or RB in the car and call it a day.

[ManoNegra]

Dave, get off your ass and finish your swap so I can have a ride in it!

[PerilousActs]

You all should probably just buy this manifold:
http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/9879/44210101502930144303046.jpg
http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/1200/40413101502592622553046.jpg

[simmode1]

How you just gon post a pic of that and then give no details or info? What's the manifold called? Where can we see it in action? And where is it sold?

[PerilousActs]

Ask and ye shall receive. It's not cheap. cj-motorsports.com (http://www.cj-motorsports.com/catdefrontintake.htm)

[irax]

2K for an intake manifold is a bit much, any dyno sheets on a stock motor or vs stock intake manifold?

[simmode1]

Goddamn, that thing is even more expensive than the Cosworth manifold. Hell, more expensive than most of the motors it'll be going onto. On top of the add'l fab required... Sheit...

Cheaper than this though:
http://www.speedforceracing.net/images/products/infinity/g35/intakemanifold/g35_1_2.jpg

[andrew600]

Its not a question of difficulty and you missed the point of my post. ITS NOT LEGAL! Why? It comes out of a Truck/SUV which do not have the same emission standards.
Again I will say this, for people like the one who posted above. The point of this swap is to be legal. IF you do not do a legal version you might as well just toss a SR or RB in the car and call it a day.

its the same as far as emissions goes to.
a swap is legal if it came in any other model of the same company where i live.
or if its older than a 96 it doesnt even get tested.

[andrew600]

HMMMMMMM! Plastic manifold! I'm down! I like lower intake temps! I wonder if this will bolt up to the vq35de lower intake manifold

naaaah the ports wont line up


http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d2/sandiegan05fronty/fronty/Stillen%20SuperCharger/IMG_1879.jpg?1308885489


vs this


http://image.importtuner.com/f/tech/9324940+w200/0605_impp_08z+kinetix_vq35de_intake_manifold+stain less_steel.jpg



but... i wonder if the lower intake plenum would fit though... hmmm
lower plenum bolts up.
gives more low end torque, and a better midrange.

[irax]

so hr plenum bolts up to the de or does the 4.0 bolt up to the 3.5 de?

[jspecusa]

no one can modify the stock vr38 intake manifold for vq?
it would look stock and good for 600+hp.

[ixfxi]

while i appreciate threads like this


i cant understand why anyone would keep their 240. just sell it and buy a fucking 350z. its not like the car is not better. its engineered better. its stronger. its newer. its legal. and when you add all the hours of work, you end up with a ragged 240?

fuck that, buy a z33. or a z34. just throw away the airbags and yer set.

[upsdude]

^good point but where's the fun in that? :P

[drift freaq]

its the same as far as emissions goes to.
a swap is legal if it came in any other model of the same company where i live.
or if its older than a 96 it doesnt even get tested.

Ah no its not read the federal EPA rules. It cannot be from a truck or SUV. Oh and please this has been discussed in length in other VQ threads here.

Plus swapping in a 4.0 is not cheaper. So please try to stay on topic.

[Highway Riding]

while i appreciate threads like this


i cant understand why anyone would keep their 240. just sell it and buy a fucking 350z. its not like the car is not better. its engineered better. its stronger. its newer. its legal. and when you add all the hours of work, you end up with a ragged 240?

fuck that, buy a z33. or a z34. just throw away the airbags and yer set.

One thing not mentioned is WEIGHT. 240's weigh significantly less. All is true however as far as a Z being better but nothing is more boring than a NA Z..... Just sold mine after 5 years and boosted my S14! With the correct suspension and brake setup a 240 is more fun.. Now boost a VQ and this is a totally different story but boosting V's and romping on them are touchy (hit or miss)...

[irax]

370z
vq37hr
http://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs198.snc3/20532_304806732151_66546877151_4590174_5173349_n.j pg
vs
350z
vq35de
http://carphotos.cardomain.com/ride_images/2/3685/1101/21710550094_large.jpg
vq35hr
http://www.350z-tech.com/w/images/0/0a/Nissan-VQ35HR-Engine-19.jpg
Vq35hr exhaust manifold modified courtesy of PlusONEten
http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd418/homebuilt1/240SX%20build/350zheadermod.jpg

hhhmmmmmmmmmm I think the 370z exhaust manifold might solve a lot of issues....

[drift freaq]

you may be on to something IB

[irax]

BTW the 370z long tub header is made by PPE
http://www.ppeengineering.com/siteassistpro_images/HeaderDiagram.jpg (http://www.ppeengineering.com/)
They do all sorts of applications, even 1UZ headers

[ixfxi]

One thing not mentioned is WEIGHT. 240's weigh significantly less. All is true however as far as a Z being better but nothing is more boring than a NA Z..... Just sold mine after 5 years and boosted my S14! With the correct suspension and brake setup a 240 is more fun.. Now boost a VQ and this is a totally different story but boosting V's and romping on them are touchy (hit or miss)...

thats all subjective

a 240 is light because it is made like a fucking tin can, no more no less.

the 350z isnt heavy, it is more rigid and solid, the extra weight is well used

either way, stock for stock... i'de take a z over a 240 anyday. if you're going to modify an s-chassis, just put the motor thats designed to be in our cars and end it

anyway, back to the discussion...

[rb25crazy]

thats all subjective

a 240 is light because it is made like a fucking tin can, no more no less.

the 350z isnt heavy, it is more rigid and solid, the extra weight is well used

either way, stock for stock... i'de take a z over a 240 anyday. if you're going to modify an s-chassis, just put the motor thats designed to be in our cars and end it

anyway, back to the discussion...

regardless, of the car being better or not, i have an attachment to my kouki =X, plus i've dumped in a lot of money for a buncha quality parts that i'd never get back so, might as well just keep it and put a little more into it to make it complete in my eyes.

also, it's like why do ppl get old beater 240z and modify them and throw in all these things into it, it's just mainly cuz they like it, not so much that it is better then the newer cars.

but, i see your point of the car being better and everything, just saying it's more of a sentimental thing for me.

[drift freaq]

regardless, of the car being better or not, i have an attachment to my kouki =X, plus i've dumped in a lot of money for a buncha quality parts that i'd never get back so, might as well just keep it and put a little more into it to make it complete in my eyes.

also, it's like why do ppl get old beater 240z and modify them and throw in all these things into it, it's just mainly cuz they like it, not so much that it is better then the newer cars.

but, i see your point of the car being better and everything, just saying it's more of a sentimental thing for me.

A 240Z is an iconic Classic at this point. People are buying them and cleaning them up because of that.

I would not put it in the same breath as our cars. Maybe in Japan a S13 has more possibility of being a Classic but not here.

In that sense using a 240Z for an example is not very good.

Oh and I think we are getting a little off topic here.

[bardabe]

Children Children, stop arguying about the whole 4.0L Deal its very easy,

Take a VQ35HR Block and Head, Stick the 4L Crank in there Forged Pistons and a custom rod and you can have a VQ40HR from a car, that will run hard as fuck without dealing with the whole "it's from a truck" deal.

as far as the whole HR VS DE drama. the VQHR engine's are significantly better. but IMO not worth the hassle of swaping into s chassis, I would much rather swap in a VHR (370Z Engine) the VQHR was only produced for 2 years, and a complete piece of shit when it comes to aftermarket support.

[simmode1]

the VQHR was only produced for 2 years, and a complete piece of shit when it comes to aftermarket support.
Speaking of this concept, I was wondering about you guys' opinion on the regular VQ35DE versus the Rev-up DE.

I know the main difference between the two is that the Rev-up has variable timing on both the intake & exhaust cams rather than the DE having it just on the intake side.

Also, the regular DE can be found just about anywhere. Whereas the Rev-up was exclusively a 350Z and G35 coupe engine and also only sold for like what 2 or 3 years, right?

Is there any real value in picking one of these over the other?

[irax]

actually, you can find revups in later year 3.5's when the Z a G coupe both got the HR, the G sedan didn't get the HR till like a year or two later IIRC

[drift freaq]

Rev Ups can be had cheap. Most people are afraid of them. Toss a oil catch can on them and call it a day. It is basically the bargain engine of the lot, because of this, followed by the DE. 35HR's are currently ringing the register in the $2k-2500 range still. You might find one cheaper but you would have to look. 37VHR's are costly. Average price is around 3k-3500. There are just not a lot of 37's out there in the yards yet. I know of one as I speak and the price is 3500.

So you want to save money REV UP or DE. Plain and simple.

[andrew600]

Ah no its not read the federal EPA rules. It cannot be from a truck or SUV. Oh and please this has been discussed in length in other VQ threads here.

Plus swapping in a 4.0 is not cheaper. So please try to stay on topic.
i am on topic? this is the base for the whole topic.
and where i live you can swap an engine over to a vehicle as long as they both have the same manufacture.

my ls1 240 was legal. and that motor came in a lot of suv and trucks.

and i didnt say it was cheaper. although now that you mention it. there are more vehicles that a vq40 comes in than a vq35. so hahah yeah you kinda walked into that door. so yes it is cheaper.

i dont know why youre so up at arms about vq40?
vq40 with harness ecu and most accessories goes for right around 2k shipped:Ownedd:
or 1k if you know someone like me.

[simmode1]

So you want to save money REV UP or DE. Plain and simple.
So whats up with aftermarket tuning options for the Rev-up versus the regular DE? I mean, how does having VTC on both the intake and exhaust effect tuning options? I've never understood this.

I do know that the DE supposedly is better at low end torque and the Rev-up is better at peak HP. But aftermarket-wise, is there anything that lets the Rev-up stand superior to the DE?

[spent27]

http://zilvia.net/f/sale-items/390909-vq37vhr-14k-miles-2100-a.html

VHR for 2100$... no one wants to bite even though its the cheapest on the web AND comes with the harness... argh...

[bardabe]

So whats up with aftermarket tuning options for the Rev-up versus the regular DE? I mean, how does having VTC on both the intake and exhaust effect tuning options? I've never understood this.

I do know that the DE supposedly is better at low end torque and the Rev-up is better at peak HP. But aftermarket-wise, is there anything that lets the Rev-up stand superior to the DE?

that is a mis conception, the new gen Nissan VQ engines don't have VTC (which was basically an on off solenoid) newer VQ's have what we call "Cam Phasing" which is a Stepper motor that allows the cam to advance and retard according to the ECU control. having control of both intake and exhaust cam you can tune the engine to have very good low RPM response and torque, while maintaining high RPM Power. by having Cam phasing on both intake and exhaust it allows you to better control valve over lap and make more power at high RPM, but you can still pull all the timing you need to have good low RPM power.

the reason the Rev up had less Low RPM power from factory was that the middle plenum. (bottom half of the top plenum) had shorter, bigger runners. but by adding a ported 03/04 Mid section with a plenum spacer you get the best of all worlds.

long runners, good volume plenum, and a shit load of high rpm overlap.

[bardabe]

http://zilvia.net/f/sale-items/390909-vq37vhr-14k-miles-2100-a.html

VHR for 2100$... no one wants to bite even though its the cheapest on the web AND comes with the harness... argh...

do you have the VVEL Harness and Control unit? VVEL is controlled independent from the ECU and BCM. that is probably why.

[spent27]

The VVEL control unit plugs directly into the engine harness from what I can tell. The VVEL runs like 100$ from junkyards...

[drift freaq]

i am on topic? this is the base for the whole topic.
and where i live you can swap an engine over to a vehicle as long as they both have the same manufacture.

my ls1 240 was legal. and that motor came in a lot of suv and trucks.

and i didnt say it was cheaper. although now that you mention it. there are more vehicles that a vq40 comes in than a vq35. so hahah yeah you kinda walked into that door. so yes it is cheaper.

i dont know why youre so up at arms about vq40?
vq40 with harness ecu and most accessories goes for right around 2k shipped:Ownedd:
or 1k if you know someone like me.

The basis for the topic is easier, which also equates with cheaper. As far more vehicles? Nissan put the 35 in damn near everything and I can pretty much hazard saying there are more 35's in existence than 40's. I did not walk in any door. I did my research.

LS1's are legal because they came in Corvettes and Camaro's. You really need to look up your EPA and Federal laws before you start arguing this stuff. I have done the homework and this has been discussed. Maybe if you searched you would learn that.

As far as engine swaps go, its any Engine produced and sold in the United States same year or newer as long as it was in the configuration for your car, AKA RWD and as long as you have all Emissions equipment hooked up.
Now there are a few states that look the other way but most are doing emission tests and follow federal law if not CARB rules.

Plus if all that stuff is so legal in your state why bother in the first place. Go back to running the engine that was supposed to be in the car a SR.

Your argument through this whole thing has been based on your own centric view point without taking other states and federal law into consideration. That is a failure on the information side on your part and does the thread a disservice.

Its not so much up in arms about it. It's truck engine which falls under different smog laws and would not be legal in a lot of states as well is technically not legal for swap Federally. Oh did I forget to tell that even though some states have stronger laws than Federal, Federal still holds weight and can get you in trouble.

The only way to make the VQ40 a legal swap in the U.S. is do exactly what Bardabe said.




The only problem I have here is what I stated about you. should I high light it in bold again for you?

Your argument through this whole thing has been based on your own centric view point without taking other states and federal law into consideration. That is a failure on the information side on your part and does the thread a disservice.


There is nothing more that need be said on the subject.

[simmode1]

that is a mis conception, the new gen Nissan VQ engines don't have VTC (which was basically an on off solenoid) newer VQ's have what we call "Cam Phasing" which is a Stepper motor that allows the cam to advance and retard according to the ECU control. having control of both intake and exhaust cam you can tune the engine to have very good low RPM response and torque, while maintaining high RPM Power. by having Cam phasing on both intake and exhaust it allows you to better control valve over lap and make more power at high RPM, but you can still pull all the timing you need to have good low RPM power.

the reason the Rev up had less Low RPM power from factory was that the middle plenum. (bottom half of the top plenum) had shorter, bigger runners. but by adding a ported 03/04 Mid section with a plenum spacer you get the best of all worlds.

long runners, good volume plenum, and a shit load of high rpm overlap.
Ahhh great info! Exactly what I wanted to know! So Rev-up it is! Gonna start researching whats possible with N/A bolt-ons and cam upgrades now...

[spent27]

If you want NA power, VQs aren't the way to go IMO. I love mine, don't get me wrong, but you can't drop a cam in like you could an LS1 and get 50rwhp+ easy. Expect to put out big money if you want 300+whp. Even getting to 300whp doesn't appear to be possible with just bolt ons... I'm hoping for a big cam, high comp engine build one day and I would be ecstatic to get 320+ whp without sacrificing lowend torque. If you want nissan NA power, I would really look into VK56. No replacement for displacement :)

[simmode1]

For realz? So is this not realistic? Not to be a smartass, but what's your opinion?
XWcM5kO8_nI&feature
300whp doesn't see that far off...

[spent27]

300 whp with full bolt ons+cams? - MY350Z.COM Forums (http://my350z.com/forum/na-builds/413894-300-whp-with-full-bolt-ons-cams.html)

Something ain't right about that dyno... From everything i've read, basic boltons you're looking 260whp... 280+ if you're lucky... Dyno numbers seem to be way over inflated these days. Remember, DEs make ~290 FLYWHEEL stock, so to think that guy got 50rwph out of just int/exh ? err? I dunno, hard to say. That thread I posted though provides some good insight on 300rwhp on a 350z... as you will see, it ain't easy

[spent27]

BTW, mine is stock + mail order tune, intake, exh and I am more than happy with how the car pulls... It really is quite impressive. I soley autocross the car at this point and I couldn't be happier. Just need bigger tires :)

[bardabe]

If you want NA power, VQs aren't the way to go IMO. I love mine, don't get me wrong, but you can't drop a cam in like you could an LS1 and get 50rwhp+ easy. Expect to put out big money if you want 300+whp. Even getting to 300whp doesn't appear to be possible with just bolt ons... I'm hoping for a big cam, high comp engine build one day and I would be ecstatic to get 320+ whp without sacrificing lowend torque. If you want nissan NA power, I would really look into VK56. No replacement for displacement :)

Lies,

I Did 293RWHP with Intake exhaust and a tune. Member on the forum can vouch as he drove the car out of the dyno with me that day. Months after i added Long Tube Headers, Custom X pipe, Custom Long Tube Intakes, Aluminum Flywheel, Lightweight Clutch, and Light Wheels, that Yielded me 331RWHP. this was on a 2007 VQ35HR. only problem encountered was that the Transmision did not like to spin to 8K RPM.

[spent27]

Ok, to clarify, I was specifically talking about DEs. Nevertheless, big N/A numbers and VQs do not go togethor. And I do think your numbers are probably inflated too :). 300 is definitely much more plausible on an HR though.

Just read through dyno/na builds on my350z to get some insight on what it takes. At the end of the day, I'm not one to worry about numbers all that much, my point I was trying to get across, really, is that VQs arnt potent NA engines unless you're spending the big bucks. Case and point, GTM sells there 400HP NA VQ race engine for $35,000 ... If it were easy, it wouldn't cost 35gs :)

[spent27]

http://www.gtmotorsports.com/product...cat=536&page=1 (http://www.gtmotorsports.com/product...cat=536&page=1)

Granted, that engine probably lives at 8500rpm... 400 flywheel = @ 15% loss -> 340rwhp.

[irax]

http://www.gtmotorsports.com/product...cat=536&page=1 (http://www.gtmotorsports.com/product...cat=536&page=1)

Granted, that engine probably lives at 8500rpm... 400 flywheel = @ 15% loss -> 340rwhp.

link is broken

[simmode1]

Ok, to clarify, I was specifically talking about DEs. Nevertheless, big N/A numbers and VQs do not go togethor. And I do think your numbers are probably inflated too :). 300 is definitely much more plausible on an HR though.

Just read through dyno/na builds on my350z to get some insight on what it takes.
Numerically speaking, only about 6hp separate Rev-ups from HR's. I don't see why a DE or Rev-up would have much probably reaching 300hp with well thought out (but not necessarily groundbreaking) mods in a S-Chassis. I had always guessed/assumed that the Z33's greater weight and the fact that most of their owners wanna keep their emissions equipment intact is what makes putting down 300whp harder for them. But I dunno. I'm no expert. But I do know I've seen mild N/A JDM Z33's claiming to make these kind of numbers with mods similar to what we're discussing.

I appreciate you guys furthering development & hacking away at the CARB-legal/emissions compliancy issues, but I really don't give a damn about that stuff. I can always find a hook-up guy. I just want a relatively simple & lightwieght V6 with stout 6spd tranny that gives me a hassle free low 300ish hp.

[bardabe]

Ok, to clarify, I was specifically talking about DEs. Nevertheless, big N/A numbers and VQs do not go togethor. And I do think your numbers are probably inflated too :). 300 is definitely much more plausible on an HR though.

Just read through dyno/na builds on my350z to get some insight on what it takes. At the end of the day, I'm not one to worry about numbers all that much, my point I was trying to get across, really, is that VQs arnt potent NA engines unless you're spending the big bucks. Case and point, GTM sells there 400HP NA VQ race engine for $35,000 ... If it were easy, it wouldn't cost 35gs :)

There is a big reason why i don't post on my350Z.com anymore. those guys are a bunch of fuckin tool bags, morons, and brown nosers that's really all that forum has to offer. Nobody with a decent Automotive IQ has a decent build thread. they just buy high dollar parts bolt them on and expect to make power. which is not how the VQ engine responds to mods, the engine has tons of potential to make power locked in the ECU. and little components that noone looks at. tell me why SGmotorsport in Canada made 340whp on a Stock Block and Head DE back in canada. those numbers are not inflated, they took the same approach I did, Real R&D and applied it to the engine, yet their stuff isn't selling on the forum because "reputable forum members" don't have it on their cars.

if you want to see real VQ builds and real parts for the VQ35. My350Z.com is the wrong place to look.


Ninja Edit:

Simone, the only Emisions Equipment the VQ35DE has is an Evap line and solenoid. nothing else. only hard thing about carb the engine is all the fuckin Z33 sensors that they have in the tank, and the distance from the back 2 cylinders to the cat. the VQ is extremly anal about that when it comes to emissions readings.

[upsdude]

damn now you've piqued my curiosity-so where would one go to find some good builds for the vq?

[mrflip69]

Simone, the only Emisions Equipment the VQ35DE has is an Evap line and solenoid. nothing else. only hard thing about carb the engine is all the fuckin Z33 sensors that they have in the tank, and the distance from the back 2 cylinders to the cat. the VQ is extremly anal about that when it comes to emissions readings.

What about the stock headers? Unless you're lucky enough to find a ref who'll let that slide. Mod the stockers and cover em up? lol

[simmode1]

tell me why SGmotorsport in Canada made 340whp on a Stock Block and Head DE back in canada. those numbers are not inflated, they took the same approach I did, Real R&D and applied it to the engine, yet their stuff isn't selling on the forum because "reputable forum members" don't have it on their cars.

Simone? Lol:keke:

And yes, I want this sound to come from my S13.
iU2h0JTq2fk

Would love to see their 340hp dyno run. Got links?

OMG... 30hp gain?!
4Ap9jzeHMCY

[ixfxi]

also, it's like why do ppl get old beater 240z and modify them and throw in all these things into it, it's just mainly cuz they like it, not so much that it is better then the newer cars.

the s30 is an older car. you can install a fucking jet engine inside a pre-emissions vehicle and get away with murder. that is the reason why the 240Z is a (reasonably) valuable car. still, if I owned a s30 i wouldnt be cought dead installing a shitty VQ35 into it... maybe a VQ37... but honestly, RB26 / 2JZGTE is really the only solution for that type of car if you ask me. but good lord, anyone who tackles that car sure has their work cut out for them. the cars are built like tin-cans and the chassis and rear end need serious reinforcement if you plan on it being durable for a high HP motor setup. so you add the weight, custom reinforcement and expensive suspension parts, infinite amounts of time and money and you still up with a mediocre performer. love the s30, but dont believe it can transform into some kind of ultimate driving machine. just a nice nostalgic drivers car that is sure to put a smile on the drivers face.

If you want NA power, VQs aren't the way to go IMO.

i've never really been impressed with what i've heard from my customers over the years with the VQ35 motors. they're not bad but theyre nothing special, especially not for forced induction. in NA form it will take a lot of work to make them special. from the little time i've spent putting around with my friend's modified g37c, the car overall feels like a better car.. motor included. again, thats not to say that the 3.5L cars are bad.


There is a big reason why i don't post on my350Z.com anymore. those guys are a bunch of fuckin tool bags, morons, and brown nosers that's really all that forum has to offer.

there are a lot of morons everywhere you go, people that visit this forum surely think im a retard. they think dave is a retard. everyone is a moron.

i dont really like the my350z / g35driver forums, but theyre decent. much better than the useless g37 forums, which are still better than nico, which is still better than stepping foot on clublexus. clublexus is like bottom of the barrel.

wait, i take that back, the cube & scion forums are bottom of the barrel.

[97240TB]

Well I'm late to this party, Anyway... To start you guys have to remember those SG Long tubes were designed specifically to fit under 350z's, I've talked with their development guys and I have been told They would not fit properly on a VQ converted 240. That aside These engines have huge potential, Even with minimal external engine modification. I'm making 293HP with custom intake boxes and a custom exhaust on a tune. (Remember I have a HR engine.) Most of the work done on my car is all one off and custom made.

There are no crossmember modifications though we did custom work on the steering rack and steering column, My headers are stock HR and were not modified. Yes my engine sits approximately one inch above the hood line but this is solved with a Dmax FRP hood with quarter inch risers at the hood arms.

I spent more then most because again, my work was all custom one off and the engine/transmission I purchased had only 700 and 900 miles on them. I also used a STACK ST8130M HUD, So cost on my swap wasn't limited.

As far as the Emissions are concerned I feel confident if I put stock cats on my car with a proper street exhaust (I run open exhaust with a buddy club spec II.) This car would pass any emissions tests.

Not alot of technical info but I feel that's been covered. This car has been running for over a year with little to no issues, Runs just fine and the gas mileage isn't too shabby either. haha

[GripTerror]

man is zilvia always full of little children fighting each other shit...

[simmode1]

in NA form it will take a lot of work to make them special.
I guess that's the issue for alot of ppl. Ppl have different meanings of 'special'. For me, I'm not looking for this motor to put out LSx type performance numbers.

My goals are modest. IMO, 100hp for every 1000lbs of weight is enough for me to feel quick and balanced. Any more available power is just icing on the cake. So THE VQ35 hits all my checkmarks for a motor that I'd want in my S-Chassis.

[andrew600]

The basis for the topic is easier, which also equates with cheaper. As far more vehicles? Nissan put the 35 in damn near everything and I can pretty much hazard saying there are more 35's in existence than 40's. I did not walk in any door. I did my research.

LS1's are legal because they came in Corvettes and Camaro's. You really need to look up your EPA and Federal laws before you start arguing this stuff. I have done the homework and this has been discussed. Maybe if you searched you would learn that.

As far as engine swaps go, its any Engine produced and sold in the United States same year or newer as long as it was in the configuration for your car, AKA RWD and as long as you have all Emissions equipment hooked up.
Now there are a few states that look the other way but most are doing emission tests and follow federal law if not CARB rules.

Plus if all that stuff is so legal in your state why bother in the first place. Go back to running the engine that was supposed to be in the car a SR.

Your argument through this whole thing has been based on your own centric view point without taking other states and federal law into consideration. That is a failure on the information side on your part and does the thread a disservice.

Its not so much up in arms about it. It's truck engine which falls under different smog laws and would not be legal in a lot of states as well is technically not legal for swap Federally. Oh did I forget to tell that even though some states have stronger laws than Federal, Federal still holds weight and can get you in trouble.

The only way to make the VQ40 a legal swap in the U.S. is do exactly what Bardabe said.




The only problem I have here is what I stated about you. should I high light it in bold again for you?

Your argument through this whole thing has been based on your own centric view point without taking other states and federal law into consideration. That is a failure on the information side on your part and does the thread a disservice.


There is nothing more that need be said on the subject.
there is a lot more that needs to be said on the subject. thats why its a thread.

lsx is a based motor that is in many cars trucks and suvs. the vq motors are also in many cars trucks and suvs. ive had a legal lsx motor that came out of an suv in my car.its not difficult.
you have the info that you have and thats fine. but the fact is, that its no more difficult to do a vq40 than a 35. FACT. plain and simple. if you think its harder then fine. but i have personal experience with this with no issues at all. im saying this for the area i live. it may be different where you live.

[Highway Riding]

I recently just sold my 04.5 350Z with Kinetix intake manifold - JWT poop charger and Tanabe exhaust and i made 262 on a DD. For me to get up to 300 would cost as much as my SR S14 motor alone.... Not worth it IMHO...

[ixfxi]

I guess that's the issue for alot of ppl. Ppl have different meanings of 'special'. For me, I'm not looking for this motor to put out LSx type performance numbers.

My goals are modest. IMO, 100hp for every 1000lbs of weight is enough for me to feel quick and balanced. Any more available power is just icing on the cake. So THE VQ35 hits all my checkmarks for a motor that I'd want in my S-Chassis.

i hear ya

its just funny to see people put all this money & work and end up with a busted up old ass car. at least when you pull up with a newer Z, you will probably get laid. 240's dont really do that, generally speaking. you just end up having a bunch of dudes around your car

[drift freaq]

there is a lot more that needs to be said on the subject. thats why its a thread.

lsx is a based motor that is in many cars trucks and suvs. the vq motors are also in many cars trucks and suvs. ive had a legal lsx motor that came out of an suv in my car.its not difficult.
you have the info that you have and thats fine. but the fact is, that its no more difficult to do a vq40 than a 35. FACT. plain and simple. if you think its harder then fine. but i have personal experience with this with no issues at all. im saying this for the area i live. it may be different where you live.

wow you just don't get it. You even stated in your last sentence what I pointed out. The point of this thread is easy, inexpensive, you keep on trying to abstract the points I was making. The VQ40 is in trucks and SUV's ONLY!. That makes it technically not legal on a Federal and CARB basis. My point is not about difficulty its about legality and costs. PERIOD!

The only other point is you are looking at this whole thing from your particular area of the country only. Most of the people are not in your area. All I am trying to point out to you is you need to open your eyes . There is a big world out there and its not centered around where you live.

Now please stop this, you are getting into semantics for the sake of arguing to back up your opinion without facts that are pertinent. LEGALITY in the U.S. and CARB. for one particular engine. I never made my points based on difficulty I made them on legality and costs.
Which you keep on trying to ignore, just for the sake of having your say.

Oh and you are mucking up this thread with your useless comebacks that make no points. Legality, costs and CARB issues are pertinent to the thread. A truck engine is not.

[andrew600]

i havent said any sort of comeback at all. nor have i called you out in a manor that you so childishly did me. nor have i said the world revolves around where i live. i simply said that the vq40 is just as legally easy to do as the 35. because its the truth. im done trying to have a discussion with someone that only wants to piss and moan like a child.

[BOROSUN]

i dont think its legal on any state but, dont quote me on that.

[Prime]

i simply said that the vq40 is just as legally easy to do as the 35. because its the truth.

"If the engine is not identical to the original then it is not a replacement part, instead it is considered an engine “change”. Engine changes entail modifications that must meet certain requirements to be legal. Engine changes are legal as long as the following requirements are met to ensure that the change does not increase pollution from the vehicle:

_The engine must be the same year as (or newer than) the vehicle.
_The engine must be from the same type of vehicle (passenger car, light-duty truck, heavy-duty truck, etc.) based on gross vehicle weight.
_If the vehicle is a California-certified vehicle then the engine must also be a California-certified engine.
_All emissions control equipment from the “donor” vehicle must be installed in the vehicle receiving replacement parts to ensure it is identical to the one that was certified to meet federal standards for the model year of the vehicle."
EPA.gov (http://yosemite.epa.gov/R10/AIRPAGE.NSF/webpage/Mobile+Sources#7)

Federally, it's illegal. Which means in ALL states. Even if your individual state does not regulate it, it's still not legal. As an example, I can "legally" get a medical marijuana card for personal use in California. And at any time I could be arrested for violating FEDERAL law, since it's not decriminalized Federally.

You're wrong. Even if versions of the LS1 came in trucks, if THAT MOTOR came from a truck, it's illegal. From a Corvette or Camaro, it's not. The law is stupid, but that doesn't make a damn difference.

If you can't make sense out of that, then I don't know what to say to you.

[ixfxi]

i simply said that the vq40 is just as legally easy to do as the 35. because its the truth.

Federally, it's illegal. Which means in ALL states. Even if your individual state does not regulate it, it's still not legal. As an example, I can "legally" get a medical marijuana card for personal use in California. And at any time I could be arrested for violating FEDERAL law, since it's not decriminalized Federally.

You're wrong. Even if versions of the LS1 came in trucks, if THAT MOTOR came from a truck, it's illegal. From a Corvette or Camaro, it's not. The law is stupid, but that doesn't make a damn difference.

If you can't make sense out of that, then I don't know what to say to you.

i know what to say to him

call him a stupid fucking moron for not understanding LEGALITIES.

thank you very much
- mike

[Lees_Garage]

i know what to say to him

call him a stupid moron for not understanding LEGALITIES.

thank you very much
- mike

Thanks Mike, now can we get back on topic? There is a ton of great info in this thread and here we are cluttering it up with useless arguing.

[JaeTea]

Thanks Mike, now can we get back on topic? There is a ton of great info in this thread and here we are cluttering it up with useless arguing.

Seriously...Leave it to Zilvian's to shit up a thread in a matter of days :picardfp:

[dudermagee]

back on topic then
I think that this may change a few things
Categories - VQSwap.com (http://www.vqswap.com/products)
I think its a chase bays site....

[drift freaq]

Thanks Mike, now can we get back on topic? There is a ton of great info in this thread and here we are cluttering it up with useless arguing.

Hey I am willing to apologize, I cannot stand people posting wrong info Andrew600 did just that. Then when was told he was wrong he would not accept it and had to call me childish to try and justify his position.

I detest wrong info and he posted wrong info. I have nothing more to say on that subject and will continue to post info that I know or have acquired.

[drift freaq]

back on topic then
I think that this may change a few things
Categories - VQSwap.com (http://www.vqswap.com/products)
I think its a chase bays site....

That is Chase Bays site. Ok I will say this, if anyone has noticed, my sig has changed. I am going to be putting a REV UP in the car. Now a lot are asking why Dave? Put it simply when the economy changed I put the whole project on hold.

I am now finally getting back to it. After several years of research and analysis I came to the conclusion that while the HR could be installed it required modifications I did not want to make.

Given that a REV UP is close to a HR in Horse Power. Given that with mods you can get good power out of it and its a very inexpensive setup it just made more sense.

I am more interested in having a legal 300 whp swap and a running car. Then having to modify everything under the sun and spending more time to make it work.
Props to the people that have put HR's in. Hood clearance issues are major unless you modify your crossmember. To me modifying the crossmember is not ideal. It actually does not comply with several sanctioning bodies for motorsports as well.

Yes you could space your hood up and run a scooped aftermarket hood again these are not ideal choices to me.

On to the Chase Bay car, It looks clean but I am concerned about the fact that the Mckinney kit manages to make you cut your trans tunnel to clear the shifter.
This is the first time in all the swaps I have seen that I have seen this. Again in my mind this is not ideal. Ideal would be a install that does not require modifying crossmembers or cutting trans tunnels.

That is my goal and I will keep you guys informed of progress as I will not be holding back on.


Oh and for the HP needs I am after a REV UP should be just fine as well. Granted its not quite as cool as the HR but it will be dope.

[rb25crazy]

awesoooome, so when do you think you will be done with your rev up swap drift freaq?

[simmode1]

I am going to be putting a REV UP in the car.
:w00t:Yay! That's the motor that makes the most sense to me too.

Now, for you guys who understand thermal dynamics, exhaust pulses & tubal exhaust construction; can you give an idea of how the Mckinney VQ swap headers compare to the SG Motorsports headers? I know the SG's won't fit into our cars (hell, they may not even be in production anymore), but I wanna get a sense of what it'll take to match their performance & sound. Are the McKinney's even remotely comparable?

[spent27]

There is a big reason why i don't post on my350Z.com anymore. those guys are a bunch of fuckin tool bags, morons, and brown nosers that's really all that forum has to offer. Nobody with a decent Automotive IQ has a decent build thread. they just buy high dollar parts bolt them on and expect to make power. which is not how the VQ engine responds to mods, the engine has tons of potential to make power locked in the ECU. and little components that noone looks at. tell me why SGmotorsport in Canada made 340whp on a Stock Block and Head DE back in canada. those numbers are not inflated, they took the same approach I did, Real R&D and applied it to the engine, yet their stuff isn't selling on the forum because "reputable forum members" don't have it on their cars.

if you want to see real VQ builds and real parts for the VQ35. My350Z.com is the wrong place to look.


multi grand motec ecu, 90mm tb, build bottom end, cam that's only useful for high revving race cars that live at 8500... They went alittle beyond ' stock block'. Yes, my350z isn't ideal for the DIY type but they are not alot of options out there. MotoIQ has some good VQ writeups.

And yes, you can point at a select few builds where they made quality NA gains. However, I stand by my statement that the VQ isn't a great motor for big NA numbers, plain and simple. Buy a LS1 if you want NA numbers. I wanted a unique project while using a Nissan engine to keep me in a street class for SCCA. The class I run, street modified, is 1800lbs min weight + 200*engine liters (- 200 lbs for 275mm tires or smaller). I really think the VQ can be competitive for me, power per liter it certaintly puts down great numbers. Like I said, I couldn't be happier how mine has performed. I can't wait till I get my car down to 2300lbs with 320+ rwhp.

[ixfxi]

Ok I will say this, if anyone has noticed, my sig has changed. I am going to be putting a REV UP in the car. Now a lot are asking why Dave?

did anyone ask why? not me, i have sigs turned off. :-)


That is my goal and I will keep you guys informed of progress as I will not be holding back on.

yes, keep us informed. remember our bet, it was for the end of 2010... but being the generous person i am, i have extended our bet 1 complete year. so your car has to be working and driving in 2011.

dont worry, i dont think mine will be working this year EITHER, dave. :-P

[drift freaq]

did anyone ask why? not me, i have sigs turned off. :-)




yes, keep us informed. remember our bet, it was for the end of 2010... but being the generous person i am, i have extended our bet 1 complete year. so your car has to be working and driving in 2011.

dont worry, i dont think mine will be working this year EITHER, dave. :-P

a slow race to the finish we have here. LOL

[ixfxi]

a slow race to the finish we have here. LOL

yeah, but a quick drop on mike yates motherfucking ducati yesterday!

now its on, me, you, glenn or mike.. whos car will start first.

[bc.]

Your argument through this whole thing has been based on your own centric view point without taking other states and federal law into consideration. That is a failure on the information side on your part and does the thread a disservice.
This is kind of what you are doing by shooting him down, is it not? Saying its straight up illegal is false information in itself even if federal law says it is. What is a law if it not enforced, ever? There are advertised safe havens for illegal immigrants in places in this country and the feds don't care to do anything about it... it is no different with car rules. It is up to whomever is doing the swap to figure out what is going on in their area as far as car regulation goes. Everyone always quotes federal law forgetting that states can have their own laws as well and they are the ones ultimately enforcing them.

Must be shitty to live in a state that has the best weather for cars, but the most strict laws. If Big Brother would stop harassing all you enthusiasts out there they could probably save a pretty penny. My 240sx doesn't get any kind of emissions check in MO (because it's OBDI) and I just passed safety without a cat. conv. (that last part should not happen, even around here, but the inspector just didn't care). Other places where it is more rural don't do emissions at all, probably because it is too expensive.

I will get off my soapbox and get to why I really posted here: You say the only reason for this swap is to be legal, I think there are plenty more then just that. The VQ is 3.5 pistons long, instead of 6, 4.5 or 4, which can help it sit slightly further back in the engine bay than a RB or JZ, SR, V8. It is also lighter then most of those engines which helps even more for weight balance. I would also trust its' reliability over a few of the later as well. Maybe you don't want a power overload, maybe just enough to get around the track with no problems but not too much to destroy a set of tires in 2 laps. Kansai Drifter, i think?, can attest to this. I have watched all his videos and he kills it in his VQ s13. Oh, and the sound is pure sex imo, i think someone called it exotic earlier :)

There is good info in here so keep it up! sorry for the long post. XD

[iamtheyi]

I am going to bump this very old thread in hopes of finding out if anyone has actually finished their swap.

Also if anyone has BAR'd/CARB Legal swapped the VQ into their car. So far, searching brings up... absolutely nothing. Just a bunch of speculation and still no real clear answer about the return/returnless fuel system discrepancy.

[Bambi]

Just spent the last hour reading every post in this thread.


Looking for a VQ now.

[Acreus]

im in the process of a VQ35HR swap in my 1995 240sx. I plan to get it BAR'd and carb legal in CA. As soon as i finish, Which im very close to doing, i will let everyone know.

[iamtheyi]

^ you have some sort of build thread or timeline?

[Taylor Shinobu]

im in the process of a VQ35HR swap in my 1995 240sx. I plan to get it BAR'd and carb legal in CA. As soon as i finish, Which im very close to doing, i will let everyone know.

what happened? you get it carb legal?

[Nezahualcoyotl]

it has to be a custom drive shaft. so you need some one to make it for you

[Ljay]

i was reading about ls swaps and i stumbled across something similar to the vq manifold issues. the manifold on the ls hits the steering as well and you aren't aloud to fabricate a custom one due to it not being oem. someone mentioned that as long as emissions are in place you are fine so you can have a custom manifold on fabricated to fit in.

Originally Posted by GSXRJJordan
This was mentioned above, but I want to clear it up - with regard to the headers, the OEM ones do not have to be used, as they don't fit anything except F-bodys or Vettes.

But the configuration of all the emissions equipment has to be identical.

When I say emissions equipment, what that really means is the cats. That means no long-tube headers, no headers that make you re-route emissions plumbing, nothing. As long as you keep that in mind, you'll be A-OK with CARB.

[irax]

Two years later and this thread has turned into a pissing match.