2012 Honda Si ... thoughts?

[DALAZ_68]

just saw the commercial for it and figured what the hell, just wondered what everyone else thought of it...

2012 Honda Civic Family: Hybrid, Coupe, Sedan, Si, GX (http://automobiles.honda.com/civic/)

to be honest it looks less sporty than the previous model, but doesnt look all that bad...

[dat411kid]

Looks good for conservative america.

[ronmcdon]

I think it looks fine.
The rear redesign is a bit more generic, reminds me of a Scion TC or a Camry.
Overall, I like it though.

I do wish the new car would have a tad more power, but the added torque (2.4l vs 2.0l) is welcome.
31 mpg is reasonable, but I'm disappointed Honda could not do better.

I've owned a 08 Si and was happy with it.
It's fun (to me) and practical.
I would just get some front camber bolts to dial in some neg camber up front.
Not sure I would buy the same car again, given the chance.

For the same price, I'd probably wait to see what Hyundai can come up with their '12 Genesis Coupe.
The upgrades might be worth the wait.
Pricing, fuel economy, etc, wouldn't be too different.

[Corbic]

I'd rather have a B16 EG or EK all day long. Faster, better looking and 32mpg mixed driving.

[simmode1]

just wondered what everyone else thought of it...

I am bored by this.


For the same price, I'd probably wait to see what Hyundai can come up with their '12 Genesis Coupe.
I am excite by this.

[WanganRunner]

I was really looking forward to this next Civic until I saw it.

Big lazy K24? No thanks.
Effectively unchanged interior? No thanks.

Where the hell is our CTR?

[K_style]

No thanks .

[s14tan]

Honestly, it looks like everything else on the road nowadays.


Ron said it best.

[Om1kron]

oh how the mighty have fallen.

[upsdude]

I'd rather have a B16 EG or EK all day long. Faster, better looking and 32mpg mixed driving.


ah yes, i've got fondness for those body styles as well. gotta love a well done ctr conversion on a 96-00 EK.

[jamg]

22k for a 200hp car.

wat.

[nismo 240sx]

Id rather pick up a mazdaspeed 3 for the price of that..good power and good looks

[scoobyjoe]

Dalaz it looks cute I could picture you in it :p lol

[DALAZ_68]

wtf...lol i was just wondering what everyone else thought of it...like i said, it not as sporty looking as the previous, but the previous model didnt exactly give me wood...the coupe was so egg shaped and the sedan was just...meh...but nicer looking exterior wise than the coupe...

give my an EK9 anyday, or my old CD5 4 door... XD

[gunmetalr32]

it sucks that the head and the exhaust manifold/header is 1 piece. It's all connected.. So no aftermarket headers.

[knifedag007]

My DD is an 8th Gen. Si and I personally dislike the new 9th Gens.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4074/5487524688_7133aacdf4_b.jpg

I do like the front of the coupes but the rear of them and the whole sedan look so generic...yes it has a 2.4L over the 8th Gens. 2.0L so it will have a good bump in torque but I like my 8600 redline.


8th Gen = :w00t:
9th Gen = :barf:

[Corbic]

I

Where the hell is our CTR?

Our Si is their CTR.

[Gizmo_S13]

I'd rather have a B16 EG or EK all day long. Faster, better looking and 32mpg mixed driving.

I don't get all these people saying the B16 is the greatest motor, that engine has no torque to begin with. I wouldve just swapped in a GSR or Type R Engine, shit even the LS/VTEC is better than that garbage ass b16. The only Honda I'd drive would be a 89-91 CRX Si

[Corbic]

I don't get all these people saying the B16 is the greatest motor, that engine has no torque to begin with. I wouldve just swapped in a GSR or Type R Engine, shit even the LS/VTEC is better than that garbage ass b16. The only Honda I'd drive would be a 89-91 CRX Si

Swapping sure, but the B16 is what the stock SIR (in Japan) and EM1 SI came with.

In those older, ultra light weight, ultra toss-able chassis it was fantastic. The fuel mileage is also unbeatable.

Now the current civic is bigger than a 90s Accord and is as boring as a 90s Camry.

2.4l 200hp!!! On noes, didn't GM do that 10 years ago with the Eco-Tech?

[BustedS13]

everybody knows honda civics were born to be race cars

200 horsepower? everybody knows real race cars have less than 200 horsepower

honda civic race car

[VROOOM]

screw the Si. im waiting for the Hyundai Veloster turbo to come out. i kinda want one.

everybody knows honda civics were born to be race cars

200 horsepower? everybody knows real race cars have less than 200 horsepower

honda civic race car


real race cars like the 240sx?

[WanganRunner]

Our Si is their CTR.

Not on the last generation it wasn't. Same general idea, but more different than a DC2 GSR and a DC2R. An FD2 CTR is a much more capable car than an FA5.

I don't even think that the regular Civic sedan will be offered in Japan, just the hybrid, and maybe not even that. There probably won't be a CTR for this generation.

[ronmcdon]

it sucks that the head and the exhaust manifold/header is 1 piece. It's all connected.. So no aftermarket headers.

what?! that's terrible! never heard of such drastic measures to discourage modding. Honda is going to be losing customers for sure by doing this. a good portion of ppl who buy the Si are going to want to add some power. bad move by honda.

[upsdude]

I'm sure it's safe to say honda has switched it's focus to green-minded consumers and families. people who mod their cars for more power buy from the aftermarket anyways, so i don't see why honda would give a damn about them.

[VROOOM]

I would love a k20 CR-Z.

[upsdude]

it's been made already...on the cover of one of the tuner mags (import tuner i think)

[ronmcdon]

I'm sure it's safe to say honda has switched it's focus to green-minded consumers and families. people who mod their cars for more power buy from the aftermarket anyways, so i don't see why honda would give a damn about them.

If that were Honda's focus, i can understand that. assuming it's the case, why would you bother offering an Si model at all? If you cater towards the performance buyer, there's a good chance modifications will be involved. If you want enthusiast customers to be happy with your car stock, at least keep it comparable to your competitors.

[ronmcdon]

I would love a k20 CR-Z.

would the cr-z really be much better, if at all, compared to the FA/FG?
it's not that much lighter, and it has torsion beam rear.

honestly the more i think about honda, the more depressing I get.
it's very exciting.

[BustedS13]

real race cars like the 240sx?

uh, hello
tow hooks

[vvtisupra]

I'd rather have a B16 EG or EK all day long. Faster, better looking and 32mpg mixed driving.

K series far superior than any B series.



Also, Honda design is far superior than Nissan 4 cyclinders. It made me sad to learn this after building an SR20, To compare the head design of a comparable year B series motor clowns the flow characteristics and efficiency of any well ported SR20. And for honda to step up and make the K series even more efficient is even more astounding.

If you guys haven't driven an 8th gen civic si I suggest trying one. The driveability is great, and the transmission and gearing is so perfect for the road course. it wasn't until i've driven an 8th gen civic si and an s2000 that i realize how they can be fast around a track with the horsepower that they have.

I'm impressed by honda. They are targetting being green while being sporty. A lot better than say Toyota or Nissan with their boring hybrids.

[jontron5000]

I too believe that Honda is focusing more toward "going green" and families. They cut the NSX, S2000, and CTR. In my opinion, those were the three best cars that captured the racing heritage of Honda. Today all we get from Honda that is remotely sporty is the Civic Si and the CRZ.

The CRZ? A Sport hybrid? Seems kinda like an oxymoron to me. As a hybrid it does pretty good, 41 mpg i believe. But in sport mode it isn't all that great, probably for a hybrid its nice, but i wouldn't really call it sporty. It seems as though Honda fused together two different cars with two different purposes and kinda hoped it would sell. I dont know about you guys but if I'm in the market for a sporty compact car, CRZ doesn't come into mind as a top choice or as something I MUST buy. And for $21k that's asking a lot

[Yellow4g63]

K series far superior than any B series.



Also, Honda design is far superior than Nissan 4 cyclinders. It made me sad to learn this after building an SR20, To compare the head design of a comparable year B series motor clowns the flow characteristics and efficiency of any well ported SR20.

Your talking about the DE the SR20VE head is another ball game. It's no K motor because the K controls the cam timing too.

[word sux]

no more rwd honda's

no more respect for honda


/thread

[lucky7]

meh, its ok. i absolutely want a 4 door 8th gen, sofa-king bad.

i have the ugly duckling Si. it's not perfect, but the price was right. quick photoshop - i test fit my RS', but a buddy dumped it to see what it would look like.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3631/5758047827_1f09d90b56_o.jpg

it's slow as crap, ugly as shit, but it's actually fun to drive. the seats and the amount of room in the back are the best part. never been a hatch guy, but it's usable.

incase anyone was wondering, i need new rear lips. wheels were for an E30. the 16x10 -3 doesn't fit so well on a fwd. :keke:

[STEVES14]

Your talking about the DE the SR20VE head is another ball game. It's no K motor because the K controls the cam timing too.

whats funny is the sr20ve motor isn't as new as the K20 motors and a sr20ve engine is problay the best comparison we nissian guys can give the k20 engines. But my question is this if nissian didn't give up or lets say kept the sr20 line up around just as long as honda kept there B-D-H-K engines i wonder how much better the sr20 engines would of been or what would they have added to it.

imagine a sr20det engine with cam control and low and high cam lift with flow numbers like a stock k20 head hmmmmmmm?

[s14j]

its ugly :( looks like a tadpole.

[treken2t87]

8th Gen = :w00t:
9th Gen = :barf:
:werd: truthalini

[rob22]

seen one of these at the mall the other day i swear it looks like a corolla :(

[negrosx13]

American market kills all the cool things

[JDMDude]

There's 1 in my neighborhood, not a fan of it.

[silviaguy240]

meh, its ok. i absolutely want a 4 door 8th gen, sofa-king bad.

i have the ugly duckling Si. it's not perfect, but the price was right. quick photoshop - i test fit my RS', but a buddy dumped it to see what it would look like.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3631/5758047827_1f09d90b56_o.jpg

it's slow as crap, ugly as shit, but it's actually fun to drive. the seats and the amount of room in the back are the best part. never been a hatch guy, but it's usable.

incase anyone was wondering, i need new rear lips. wheels were for an E30. the 16x10 -3 doesn't fit so well on a fwd. :keke:

oh thats you on BFC

[Gizmo_S13]

K series far superior than any b series.

.

If this was this case then why are Japanese Honda enthusiast still building B-Series motors? The aftermarket support for the B series engine is incredible and will leave the K motor in the dust. Every time I see a fixed up Honda in a showroom it's not rocking a K Engine, it's always a GSR or Type R motor. My exgf drives a gutted GSR Turbo EG and races KA24-Ts and rapes them.

[uLmighty]

get a better car from honda :) talkin about s2k babbyy

[ronmcdon]

If this was this case then why are Japanese Honda enthusiast still building B-Series motors? The aftermarket support for the B series engine is incredible and will leave the K motor in the dust. Every time I see a fixed up Honda in a showroom it's not rocking a K Engine, it's always a GSR or Type R motor. My exgf drives a gutted GSR Turbo EG and races KA24-Ts and rapes them.

K-series swaps are a lot more expensive to get into.
There's a shit-ton more parts you need to get just fit it inside say an EG/EK.
K-series swaps excel in making N/A power generally more than B-series swaps.
If you're going turbo, it would not really matter so much a B-series swap would be the more sensible route.

For most ppl, a B-series is the more practical swap route.
I'd love to throw a K20 in my EG for autoX/road race, depends on what you want to use the car for.

[lucky7]

i miss my B16 for it's revving capability, and being indestructible. a K is better though from nearly every aspect. people still build B's because they're cheaper, but tried and true. there are a lot of people that are very knowledgable about the B series.

oh thats you on BFC

yup, that's my primary forum. lol.

[WanganRunner]

Honda has no interest in selling performance cars anymore.

[Tearlessj]

What is it with 8th gen owners painting their stock wheels?

[!Zar!]

All I have to say is I find it pretty pointless to buy the Civic Hybrid.

Sure, it gets 3mpg better than the other cars, but it also costs $5k~$10k more than the other civics. Not to mention maintenance costs to maintain the hybrid system down the road and what not.

Seems like a pointless buy.

[lucky7]

is there some sort of tax incentive? sometimes there is that shit to "con" people into buying that shit. i honestly don't think that the benefits are enough to justify the cost....yet - unless you're one of those tree-hugging hippies that thinks they are saving the world. justsayin'.jpg

[silviaguy240]

incentives might be 1500-3000, but still completely pointless. not sure if its with all makes, but theres tax incentives with VW's diesels for like 1500-2000 and its a diesel. not some gay ass hybrid bullshit. if i could get a TDi golf in AWD i would already own one, but i cant justify the purchase of a FWD car as my only one. closest thing to that is a A3 TDi quattro, but its only in automatic and one of those spec'd out to my liking is $40,000 instead of $26,000 like the golf.

[lucky7]

i'm not an AWD person, to say the least. plus, i couldn't ever own an audi due to the vast amount of shit i talk about them. if you could get a Cooper diesel in the US, that would be on my short list of new cars i'd like to own. the FWD aspect wouldn't even get in my way. my mom has an '11 JCW MCS convertible, and despite being an auto, it's a freaking blast to drive.

[!Zar!]

For a daily driver who the fuck cares what wheels drives it, as long as it moves? I daily drove a Mkiv GTI for a while and I loved it.

And saving 3k still means you are paying 2-7k more than the other models. And once those battery systems and fancy ass battery re-generators starts going out, it's going to be pretty pricey.

[VROOOM]

i thought about a Hybrid. but i dont think i would buy one. that would be one car i would lease.

[ronmcdon]

The good thing about civic hybrid is that the suspension parts from the Si model bolt right up and are usually cheap to acquire.
I'm not certain the premium of the car is enough to justify the fuel saving though.

[HyperTek]

Honda was heavily involved in F1 and powered some legendary cars, So i wouldnt doubt they got good engines, just wish the cars wherent soo lackluster besides the nsx/s2k.

MP4-4 Pre-Goodwood Shakedown - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6z0hjQryQGs)

Though i wouldnt mind a crx si, sadly all of them in the world are almost beat to shit poorboy ricer

[superbike81]

Seems like a decent sporty(ish) daily driver. Too bad they don't offer a dual-clutch gearbox, would be a great reliable DD then with a little performance when you want it.

[Sideways570sx]

Honda was heavily involved in F1 and powered some legendary cars, So i wouldnt doubt they got good engines, just wish the cars wherent soo lackluster besides the nsx/s2k.

MP4-4 Pre-Goodwood Shakedown - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6z0hjQryQGs)

Though i wouldnt mind a crx si, sadly all of them in the world are almost beat to shit poorboy ricer

s2k's are wack, unless they are boosted. then they are pretty dangerous.

[!Zar!]

s2k's are fun for what they are.

[lucky7]

S2k is an awesome car, even in stock form.

[90hatchie]

im a hoodie ninja im a hoodie ninja im a hoodie ninja im a hoodie ninja im a hoodie ninja

[ronmcdon]

S2000's are not for everyone.
I think the lack of torque makes it much less forgiving to drive well.
For the same reason it's probably not the most leisurely daily driver.

I respect the s2000, but I'd gladly take a 350z or even a Mazdaspeed Miata over it.

[lucky7]

the mazdaspeed miata is ugly! first gen (NA) is the only one i'd buy. 350z is just a big fat pig (an ugly one). the S is just perfect. i agree with you, not everyone's cup of tea. i actually prefer N/A over a turbo. actually, i miss my E30 the most. comfy, yet raw and sometimes unpredictable. that shit kept you on your toes, especially in the winter. lol, fucking loved it.

[ronmcdon]

I would prefer a N/A too if there's ample torque.
I've just never enjoyed a car that requires a lot of shifting, my old 08' civic si was that way too.
(I respect that some ppl love it, but I just find it distracting in an annoying way)

[lucky7]

lol, that's funny. i love shifting a lot, and i love how you have to wind out a honda to get it to go anywhere. it's annoying at first, but once you figure out how to keep it up in the RPM band downshifting and turning, i think it's quite rewarding.

then again, i had an S14 with a GT30'd RB25 (453whp), and it was much less satisfying than i thought it would be. i think i've decided that nimble > powerful. i will likely own a handful of M3's and N/A carreras later in life. nothing necessarily fast, but just traditional sports cars that are well balanced and have respectable handling characteristics.

[ronmcdon]

Yes, I completely acknowledge that shifting can be fun & rewarding, I guess I'm just getting old.
I too would rather opt for something nimble and balanced, but even that is a matter of preference.
I'd very much like to get another Miata soon, but unfortunately I'm broke.

[Gizmo_S13]

Lucky 7 said it best. The E30 is fucking unpredictable at times. Just going a bit too fast in a turn and that little car swings you sideways. I love my E30, it's definitely one of BMWs greatest creations and worthy of Top Gears Top 10 Greatest Drift Platforms.

[lucky7]

lol @ drift platforms. how about regular ass racing? the E30 is one of the most winning chassis in racing history. think DTM M3. notorious for abrupt snap-oversteer. :keke: shockingly easy to maintain control in the snow though. rain on the other hand, was a much different story. like i said, they keep you on your toes.

just for the sake of it.
The M3 Conquers the Race Circuit
In 1986, the M3 was developed for racing homologation purposes, with a requisite 5,000 cars for competition in the World Touring Car Championship (WTCC). On the track it proved more than competent, winning its debut season of the series over opposition by Mercedes-Benz, Ford, Alfa Romeo, and Volvo. The M3 went on to win the European Touring Car Championship several times, the Tour de Corse rally and the German Touring Car Championship (DTM) twice—for starters. The M3 would quickly become the most victorious racing car of all time, recording 1,436 victories in 1,628 days.

Over the years, the BMW M3 continued to finish in high standings throughout an array of professional circuits abroad, including the ADAC GT Cup of Germany in 1993, the IMSA GTS-2 Championship in 1996, the 24 Hours Nürburgring (winning 1-2 in 2004 and 2005), and the 24 Hours Spa, with drivers such as Hans-Joachim Stuck, Pedro Lamy, Jörg Müller, and Dirk Müller on the Spa-Francorchamps.

M3 Racing in North America
The first generation M3 swept through the racing circuits of Europe like wild fire. Winning the World Touring Car Championship in 1987, eight European Championships, and an additional 60 national titles, by 1992 the E30 M3 became the most successful touring car of all time. While the car was officially sold here, North American enthusiasts read about the M3's racing triumphs with fervor, but reading was one thing — they wanted to see it. Beginning with the introduction of the second generation E36 M3 they got exactly what they wanted — in spades.

BMW M3 Racing - History - BMW North America (http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Content/Experience/BMWMotorsport/M3Racing/History.aspx)