k24 vs sr20det vs ca18det

[simbadogg]

First of all, this is my first post in a nissan forum, but i wanted to clarify some stuff. i searched around and couldn't find much. First thing i wanted to know, whats the engine code for the 94+ (i think) KA? is it the k24de? whereas the 89-93 is the k24e?
is there anyway to get either a sr20det or a ca18det to pass the visual and sniffer test in CA for smog? i've never heard of anyone passing these motors @ smog yet.
lastly, i'm looking to compared the two motors with a turbo'd k24de. i heard that to get a lot of power out of a sr20, you'd have to sink quite a bit of money into it, whereas w/ the k24de you wouldn't have to put as much in, and it'd make a lot more torque (because of the displacment). any help is much appreciated

[brianglawson]

i wanna sound like a veteran for once and save them the trouble too


search!!!!!!!!!!!

[simbadogg]

Originally posted by simbadogg
First of all, this is my first post in a nissan forum, but i wanted to clarify some stuff. i searched around and couldn't find much...
there's a difference between sounding like a veteran, and being a veteran. veterans read the posts from start to finish...

[the240sxer95]

you searched and came up with nothing? searched here? FA? google? what did you type in for your search... i wanna try :)

[brianglawson]

ok now that i sounded like a veteran, i guess im still considered a noob too

ok here ya go, just basic details
AMERICAN 240SX MOTORS
1989-1990 ka24e sohc(single overhead cam) around 140hp i think

1991-1998 ka24de dohc (double overhead cam) around 160 hp i think

all were 2.4 liter engines, they are also found in pathfinders

JAPANESE SILVIA MOTORS
1989-1990 ca18det dohc around 170hp turbocharged 1.8 liter

1991-1993 sr20det redtop dohc 205hp turbocharged 2.0 liter with a red valve cover

1995-1998 sr20det blacktop dohc, mechanically the same as the redtop but was on the 95-98 kouki type x 180sx, but the only difference was it had a black valve cover

1995-1998 sr20det dohc turbo with vvt(like honda vtec) around 230hp and it came in s14 silvias, it has a black valve cover but is different than the "blacktop", the easiest way to tell is there is a hump on the front of the valve cover

1999+ sr20det dohc vvt turbo 250hp it also had a 6spd tranny, it is also a black valve cover with the hump in the front but it is vary rare in the states considering the USA never got a version of this silvia, some people do swap them in our ealier cars but it needs alot of special wiring and such that is not very documented

the sr20 has the best hp for dollar, you can have a 325whp sr for around 2k with the right parts

im pretty sure but dont hold me to it, a ka build up is more expensive and requires much more work to get to that amount of power


veterans how did i do??

[brianglawson]

Originally posted by simbadogg
there's a difference between sounding like a veteran, and being a veteran. veterans read the posts from start to finish...

there is no way to search about that and come up with nothing unless you typed in nothing related to it, so yeah i did read the post but i know you didnt search, and if you did you did not try all that hard!

see if you would have waited i was just messin with ya i gave you your info now bow down and stop being a little prick

[simbadogg]

Originally posted by brianglawson
...1995-1998 sr20det dohc turbo with vvt(like honda vtec) around 230hp and it came in s14 silvias...
ok thanx for all that info man. but just for reference, the vvt on those sr20's is similar to the i(variable valve timing) in iVTEC found on the new hondas. but still doesn't give you the variable lift (which is really what makes the power)
but does anyone have any opinions about sr20det vs k24de vs ca18det? i was talking to a nissan guy once, and he pretty much scolded me for saying i'd go sr20det...and said k24de w/ turbo would be a much more cost effective route. any opinions?

[Bill Roberts]

http://www.zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?s=&threadid=38461


Look at my posts here.

Just posted today.

[brianglawson]

the sr20 has the best hp for dollar, you can have a 325whp sr for around 2k with the right parts

ok this is info stolen from one of bill roberts threads so read this!





To really get HP gains...these steps should be of order before going fully asperated:

Stroker crank.
Balanced and blueprinted bottom end.
Port and polish the intake and exaust of the heads and reshape the valve bowls.
Ported matching intake manifold.
SCV removal.
Combustion chamber matching (8.5 to one is good for 12lbs boost, YMMV)
Undated ECU (JWT does fine work)
Freeflow exaust system/Header pipe
Updated MAFS
Precision racing valve springs.
Update camshaft(s) I run a KAE so updated singular camshaft
Updated head gasket.
Updated valveguides
Updated Camshaft gears and chain
Updated drive train mounts
Updated Clutch, bearing, PP and flywheel
Undersize pulleys
Removal of clutchfan, updated radiator/fans
Updated injectors.
Updated coil/ignitors
Updated sparkplug wires and plugs
Updated grounding system for all components (star grounding)
Updated oil pan/oil pump
Updated Fuel pump
Updated Fuel management system (better lines, filters)
Better flowing positive crankcase ventalation
Oil Bung for turbo


...and I left out a few...the labor, fees, tuning, dyno time..all of that... Above can cost many many thousands. I have 6K in reciepts from the prev. owner...+ what I have managed to do.


See how expensive it can get all motor?, Then you add the turbo, boost controller, bov, intercooler, piping, air intake mods, suspention mods (to hold the power)...it does not stop with mods.

This is one reason why so many folks get a clip with an SR/RB and start with performance capable engine. The KA's can do well...but if you do the above, you will have a beast, N/A

PS, Dousan, I will dyno my car once I am satisftyed that I can show an outragous set of numbers..and find someone to videotape and host it. I still am having a fuel starvation problem around 7K, and a super rich problerm when it comes down (fire out the tailpipe)so no dyno to be published yet.




True. The SR makes a lot of sense for value sakes....but since the RB25/26 is only around 70lbs heavier, you can move the battery to the back and lose PS and AC..comes out about the same LBS with large intercooler.

The KA can do quite a bit of performance with the right $$$ but then again..as much as I hang on to the old thing, for moneys sake, the SR entire clip installed would run close to what building a KA correctly, without the turbo. Then you have the turbo to contend with.

I will always say an SR or even a CA is a tremendous value for bang=buck. An RB clip runs around what it takes to get a KA, turboed, up to par in the mid to high 300 HP/Low 400's. (6 to 7K)

Looks like the bean counters did their homework. I was told in Japan, you can buy an SR clip for around 750..it is the shipping that tears us up. I do like the looks on folks faces when I pop the hood and it is a KAE sitting there. It may be getting too long in the tooth (60K miles since it was built) to make serious power at this time





Lets look at prices...correct me if you have different ones..

KAE Stock 140 SHP 120RWHP
4K in blockwork, well the list above.. PLUS LABOR (N/A)

230SHP 210RWHP

Add another 2grand in Fuel management, other expensive parts..max out in the 275SHP/250RWHP. You can buy an RB with ober 300HP for this..so KAE building is not a good value..but this was what was happening in the early to mid 90's. Carbs can get you a tad over 300SHP (n/a)


Turbo that motor (built) maybe low 400's I don't know exactly.

(Something has caused mine to be about 40Less RWHP than my absolute max...Lean at high RPM, rich at low...needs tweaking out..or it is getting tired)

SRDET depending on model 205 to 250SHP, 200 to 235 RWHP 2to3K Plus Labor. Can be built up to over 350RWHP for not a whole lot more.

RB25/26 250-300SHP and can go over 500RWHP with another roughly 2 to 3 K invested +Labor.

Breakdown.

SR, most power = Dollar
CA, A beast in its own right (old motor though)
KAE Expensive to get high power, most expensive to get it to rev out to 8K, very expensive to turbo..and I doubt it will ever go past 400HP
KADE Same as above for build
Less expnsive to turbo than KAE..kits ava. 250 to 325RWHP is doable. Bolt turbo on a stock motor...220RWHP is doable.
Most expensive..

RB25DET, RB26DETT.

Wallet decides your limit...as with the KAE.

For what it would take to make a mofo out of a turbo KAE, you can have a 400HP RB26DETT...IMHO...Installed.

KAE not worth it.

KADE, extra dough, more than SR to do it.

CA18DET, low miles, hard if not impossable to find.

This verifies why the SR swap is so popular. It is the best bang/buck

[brianglawson]

lol bill i was copying it as you posted the link HAHAHAHA

[andrave]

all three engines have their high and low points. Buy whatever is cheapest. for me, ka.

[D Ruck]

If you are going to do a swap, do a redtop sr20det, they are easier to make power than blacktops and are less expensive. But since the blacktops are newer you may get one in a little better condition. In my case I'm doing a full engine bulid up on my sr20det so I wasn't worried about engine age or condition.

[SimpleS14]

VVT is not like VTEC

VVT = Variable Valve Timing

VTEC = Variable Valve Timing and Cam lift...meh...you know what I mean

[brianglawson]

thats what i said its LIKE it but not the same...lol, thnx for the correction

[andrave]

they aren't at all the same. VTEC uses oil to transition to a more aggressive set of cam lobes at higher RPM. VVT just allows for a change in timing between exhaust and intake cams. correct me if I'm wrong...:coolugh:

[simbadogg]

Originally posted by 95KoukiS14
VVT is not like VTEC

VVT = Variable Valve Timing

VTEC = Variable Valve Timing and Cam lift...meh...you know what I mean
didn't i just post this like...5 hours before you did? dah wellz...

[1121S13]

srswaps.com
check that site out.. its great.

[misnomer]

One thing about veterans is they will usually tell where to find the info. Not so much to be helpful, but just to demonstrate that you didn't do your work :P
http://www.zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?s=&threadid=29145

To save you the hastle of clicking a link, '89-90 is the KA24E (SOHC), '91-98 is the KA24DE (DOHC)

That took 15 seconds to find in the FAQ forum (35 if you count opening another browser on my poor tired Powermac, typing in "www.zilvia.net," clicking forums, and clicking Archives/FAQs).

If you didn't search, just say you didn't search, makes it easier for all of us :P



As far as opinions go. . . They are worthless. Opinions don't mean anything. I can say "dood, Bics kick ass!" and it means what to you? Not much. Even if Bics really do kick ass.

Now, if you want some facts and comparisons, by all means ask for facts and comparisons.


To answer some of your questions:
There are no (known) legal ways to get an SR20 or CA18 to pass smog in California. Serves you right for living in a nazi circus state.

Powerwise. . . it's six one, half dozen the other. "A lot of power" is a very relative term. I think 150 hp is a lot of power :P For power between 200whp and 300 (maybe 400) whp, you are looking at similar costs either way. The engines are very different though. A KA is generally a torquey motor, the SR is a high revving motor. Again, personal preference.

Since you asked for opinions, I prefer the KA. I am not going to back that opinion up with any facts, because there are equal arguments on both sides.

This is why the "veterans" don't like KA s SR threads. They become rediculous very quickly. All of the information you need to make your decision is out there, so get to deciding! :-)



EDIT: Holy crap that was long, for you lazy folk here's some Cliff notes:

1. Nothing in this post (or thread for that matter) has been worthwhile.
2. Bic kicks ass. Find me a better pen, and I'll right "You suck" on your forehead with it.

[Strider]

Originally posted by misnomer
2. Bic kicks ass. Find me a better pen, and I'll right "You suck" on your forehead with it.

hahah, I like that.

Anyways these ca vs ka, sr battles can be pretty worthless. They all have there pro's and cons. Just depends how much money you really want to spend and which motor you want to be able to floss around saying you have to all your friends.

[jenne313]

Originally posted by D Ruck
do a redtop sr20det, they are easier to make power than blacktops

One more time, in English please.:rolleyes:

[mrmephistopheles]

i hate to lock this down because it has such great info.. but it's such an OLD and beaten-down topic.
at the very least, those who DO search will find it and use it to their avail.
Thanks to misnomer, Bill, and brianglawson (even if you are C&P'ing)


Sorry to re-emphasize, but SEARCH.