TomTom GPS sends your data to the police

[Gnnr]

It seems that living off the grid is becoming more and more difficult with every electronic device apparently monitoring your location and sending information back to the parent company. Today’s privacy breach is courtesy of GPS maker TomTom, who just announced to their customers that they send travel data, including location and speed, to the “government and authorities.” According to TomTom’s CEO, this data has been used by local law enforcement to identify roads that have a high number of people driving over the speed limit in order to decide where to place speed trap cameras.

Based on the company’s message, it appears that TomTom only sends out anonymous data that can’t be tracked back to an individual user. The flaw in the logic is that since most people start using their GPS at their home, it would be trivial to identify the driver based on a consistent starting and ending location. With that information in hand, could police start sending out speeding tickets based on the GPS data, thus saving the costs of having to implement cameras at all? Although this isn’t going to happen overnight, it’s something that we need to think about going into the future.

As consumers, we are constantly giving away more and more of our personal privacy. Will there be a tipping point where people demand this privacy and will turn away from the electronic creature comforts in order to obtain it? Or are we too far down the rabbit hole to turn back now?


Neowin.net - TomTom sends your data to the police (http://www.neowin.net/news/tomtom-sends-your-data-to-the-police)

Well well well. So first the iPhone, then Droid devices, now your GPS. Your digital pacifiers are out to get you. :tinhat:

[0100]

Don't own a GPS or cell phone. I'm good.

Yes I seriously don't and never will own a cell phone.

A good map has never failed me yet. Really see no need for a GPS.

[sidewaysil80]

i don't see how they could ever track that back to the user through. if all they're sending them is speed/location of excessive speed it would be impossible to find the user. not too mention how could they prove who was driving the vehicle? i don't think it will ever get to teh point that they're trying to make it sound like. i mean, by the same standard i can call the cops on the highway and give them a plate and say that guys is changing lanes with no blinker and they issue a summons based on my statement.

[towlie]

The only way I could see this being useful is if your car was stolen.

But I really wouldn't care if it did relay position/speed, it's for my own good and it's not like I'm going to speeding. If I was? Simple, turn it off ^_^

[MADE]

BS!!!

Think about how the average GPS rcvrs works.

[Gnnr]

i don't see how they could ever track that back to the user through. if all they're sending them is speed/location of excessive speed it would be impossible to find the user. not too mention how could they prove who was driving the vehicle? i don't think it will ever get to teh point that they're trying to make it sound like. i mean, by the same standard i can call the cops on the highway and give them a plate and say that guys is changing lanes with no blinker and they issue a summons based on my statement.

In most states employing red light cameras they do not need to prove that you where driving the vehicle in order to mail you a ticket.

[sidewaysil80]

in virginia you can literally throw those away and nothing will happen. most people don't realize that and pay out of fear.
“The new statute referenced in section A., § 8.01-296, is the provision for service of
process in civil actions, which has been borrowed by the Virginia General Assembly for the
present purpose. It outlines several options for achieving satisfactory service, beginning with an
attempt at personal in-hand service, and moving on to a series of de-escalating forms of
substituted service: delivering to an adult at the defendant’s usual place of abode; posting on the
front door of such abode in conjunction with mailing; and finally, by order of publication in
appropriate cases under the provisions of the applicable code sections. It is the second of these
that gives Virginia its nickname as a “nail and mail” state, meaning that for most civil actions,
posting notice on the defendant’s front door in conjunction with mailing will constitute sufficient
notice. However, this is not so for red light camera citations under the code, for the second
statute referenced above is § 19.2-76 which, as we have already seen, requires personal in-hand
service if the “nail and mail” approach does not succeed in bringing the defendant into court.
Thus, under Virginia’s red light camera statute as it is now worded, the mere mailing of a
citation without personal service by a law enforcement officer does not constitute sufficient
notice under the statute’s own terms. While the statute permits the jurisdiction to make the
initial attempt to summon the accused to court via mail, if that person fails to respond, he or she
is not considered to have been satisfactorily served with notice. Default judgments entered under
such circumstances (when the defendant fails to appear in court on the appointed return date)
would thus not be binding, and the defendant could not be charged with contempt for failing to
comply with such a judgment. Hence, despite its ostensive distancing from the requirements of
Va. Code Ann. § 19.2-76, Virginia’s red light camera statute comes full circle and, in the end,
requires personal service before a default judgment may be entered against no-shows.”

[Gnnr]

Lucky, thats not the case in FL. They're fighting it though..

Florida House committee votes to ban red light cameras - Sun Sentinel (http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/2011-03-18/news/pb-red-light-lawmakers-switch-20110318_1_cameras-dozens-of-florida-cities-public-safety)

[CrazyIvan]

Simple... soon enough you'll need to scan your retina or finger print or whatever bs to get your car started to go to work, then they'll be able to say you commited such and such infractions...

[ronmcdon]

i don't see how they could ever track that back to the user through. if all they're sending them is speed/location of excessive speed it would be impossible to find the user. not too mention how could they prove who was driving the vehicle? i don't think it will ever get to teh point that they're trying to make it sound like. i mean, by the same standard i can call the cops on the highway and give them a plate and say that guys is changing lanes with no blinker and they issue a summons based on my statement.

Lot of the GPS devices ask the owner to register them on their computer.
A software of sorts is installed for updating the GPS' maps and such.
Who knows what else it does?
It may be a stretch, but that's one way I could see that happen.

I could also see the cops pulling over ppl who might be consistently and/or severely speeding in the area.
Maybe cop cars or dispatchers can recognize cars w/ Tom Tom units, idk.

Honestly, I see no need to worry about this.
I have a Tom Tom in my car, and use it all the time.
I might speed a little for a short burst, throw a few illegal U's, etc, nothing over-the-top reckless.
I haven't gotten a moving violation in years.

If you're not going out of your way to be reckless, I see no reason for worry.

[itwillboost]

That would be so awesome if they ban the use of redlight camera tickets without proof of driver in NJ.

[sidewaysil80]

If you're not going out of your way to be reckless, I see no reason for worry.

thats basically my thoughts exactly

[Gnnr]

Thanks to that thinking we got the Patriot Act.

[BoostSlideWayz]

yeah i have a gps and tom tom.. its and older version dont know if it still works.. but i never speed... i used to along time ago and i also have a radar detector it works well but i dont even used that any more cuz im just not really worried about it anymore.. i Do how ever thing the goverment and who ever else is involved with invading almost every decision we make.. soon their gonna know exactly when we have to pee and testing how long we are in there..

[Gnnr]

BTW, you should all watch this special CNBC did a while back

Hulu - CNBC Originals: Big Brother, Big Business - Watch the full episode now. (http://www.hulu.com/watch/46559/cnbc-originals-big-brother-big-business)

It just the tip of the iceberg.

[ronmcdon]

Thanks to that thinking we got the Patriot Act.

Sure, if you're one of those tinfoil hat types.

Nobody's forcing a 'Tom Tom' down your throat.
Patriot Act was a law that applied to most, if not all citizens,
so that's not an accurate analogy.

[TheWolf]

Lucky, thats not the case in FL. They're fighting it though..

Florida House committee votes to ban red light cameras - Sun Sentinel (http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/2011-03-18/news/pb-red-light-lawmakers-switch-20110318_1_cameras-dozens-of-florida-cities-public-safety)

I'd like to add to this. I emailed my local state representative Daniel Davis back around new years of this year. I explained the flaw in image processing, the money making scheme that ATS uses, and how it cuts the state out of the revenue. I also linked him to Ron Reagan's bill. It took about an hour or two to research and write this email. About a week or so later, Davis personally called me up to thank me for writing this, said he would get it on someone's legislative docket for the beginning of the year. I was surprised, took at face value. Atleast he read it. Whether any action would be taken or whether it was lip service. Who knew. I never really followed up on it but it's good to see that it did go through. The city of green cove up here put them in after thanksgiving. Last thing the world needs is more cameras and automated tickets.

Use this as an example people. Remind your politicians who they work for in a professional manner. Of all people to get me worked up into a frenzy enough to write the letter was Ted Nugent.

[Gnnr]

Sure, if you're one of those tinfoil hat types.

Nobody's forcing a 'Tom Tom' down your throat.
Patriot Act was a law that applied to most, if not all citizens,
so that's not an accurate analogy.

I'm referring to the thinking of giving up your privacy because, hey, if you're not doing anything wrong you have nothing to worry about. Little by little your privacy is being eroded. What if the government mandated that everyone have surveillance cameras in their house? Well, if you're doing nothing wrong it shouldn't matter, right? An extreme example but its the same line of thinking. Would you allow an officer to come and search your house without a warrant?

Also, its not only TomTom monitoring and giving up information, its also cellphone companies. Your cellphone has GPS capabilities, who is to say they wont also measure the moving velocity of it?

Cell phones show human movement predictable 93% of the time (http://arstechnica.com/science/news/2010/02/cell-phones-show-human-movement-predictable-93-of-the-time.ars)

With more and more cars being equipped with GPS and road side assistance type services eventually the majority of the population will be tacked and monitored.

[ronmcdon]

I just look at it from a case-to-case basis.
I prefer not to generalize.
There are some forms of privacy that I'm more ambivalent to.

Some of us feel the need for more privacy than others.
With smart-phones and GPS devices, at least ppl have a choice to not obtain,
or throw them away if I feel they're not worth the hassle.
Ultimately it's a matter of personal choice.
I choose not to reveal a lot of personal info on sites such as Facebook/Zilvia for example.
Others probably don't mind, and that's their choice and comfort level.

The Patriot Act is different & offensive (to me at least) because there is no choice in the matter.
Laws like that is where I begin to feel very uncomfortable & draw the line.

I am willing to make some compromises with my government,
or the business I work with if I feel the effects are justified or not intrusive on a practical level.

[spooled240]

another reason to GTFO of the U.S.

[Gnnr]

The Patriot Act is different & offensive (to me at least) because there is no choice in the matter.
Laws like that is where I begin to feel very uncomfortable & draw the line.

I feel ya, the problem is that these companies don't disclose that they'll be doing this upfront, it always comes down to them getting exposed first and then they'll hide it in a lengthy ToS agreement.

[STEEZxIT]

I dont re-call registering TOMTOM online or when buying it at a store...idk, my dad bought one..

So yeah, how would they find who owns that TOMTOM?

[ronmcdon]

I feel ya, the problem is that these companies don't disclose that they'll be doing this upfront, it always comes down to them getting exposed first and then they'll hide it in a lengthy ToS agreement.

Yeah if they're being deceptive, then that's unprofessional & tacky no matter what.

[STEEZxIT]

nvm jst read Ronmcdon wrote... that will def sucks if it pulls through though.

[illvialuver]

limit government. that is all.

[Tantwoforty]

i got a red light ticket in my chicks car.. she went to corut and said look... its not me.. and idk who it was. i was out of town..

bam, no more ticket.

[Gizmo_S13]

This is starting to look like George Orwells 1984... Soon enough our TVs are going to be watching us and informing our future leader of the actions we're doing in our own household!!!