Crappy brakes...Crappy pads...whats the deal?

[thx247]

I went to a track day not to long ago (buttonwillow east loop) in my super stock 240sx. I changed the brake fluid with that crap they sell at Kragen (DOT4) and I bought some KVR pads from PDM based on the reccomendations I saw here and there online.

Anyway, the track day was great and I learned alot, my brakes however....

I'll have picts up soon....but the rotors are scrapped up pretty badly. Its like little flakes of the shiny swept area have come off and there are little rough patches underneath. The car stops fine except I need to rebleed again since the pedal has sunk rather low now.

I have a very annoying squeak squeak whenever the front rotors spin, it is audible at 1mph through 50 or 60mph...its very annoying.

The pads do not appear to be flattening out anywhere on the surface, and the rotor...well I can't tell crap from the rotor-- the rotor looks shot to hell lol. It seems like a sticky caliper or something you know? So today I pulled the pads and checked them out on the front left tire. The outside pad surface looks ok, there is a little chipped pad at the rear of the sweep zone but nothing major, the pad itself however appears to be coming off of the backing. I am able with my fingers to push the pad closer and further away from the backing. For a 50 dollar pad, this is unacceptable imo. I did not abuse the brakes, I gave them cool down laps, I didnt do brakestands after hot laps, I didnt use my ebrake when I parked etc etc. I am going to talk to Don or someone at PDM about the pads and see if this is something to be concerned about but I would also like to hear your opinions on my squeaky noise, and on these pads. I have another track day coming up and I'm not going to run it right now unless I can get this problem sorted out or reach a safe conclusion. Thanks

ps. I am going to swap the pads out for some stockers soon (school work blabh blah) and see if the noise is still around. Also, once I post up picts, do you guys think I can get these rotors turned and save them? Or should I just toss them? (I have spares of course) The back brakes appear to be fine and I get no noises from them.

The rest are links so you 56k folk can get on with life...

http://www.4whldft.com/images/P9300107.JPG
Closeup of rotor (http://www.4whldft.com/images/P9300109.JPG)

Brake pad normal (http://www.4whldft.com/images/P9300110.JPG)

Brake pad pulled (http://www.4whldft.com/images/P9300113.JPG)

Brake pad squeezed (http://www.4whldft.com/images/P9300114.JPG)

[Dousan_PG]

pretty nuts. sucks. i have used KVR for open track but never such expirience.

i dont have many ideas why this would happen, i saw the thread on FA too and following that.


id say try to get the rotors turned..otherwise..swap them

putting the pads on: i know you are quite knowledgable at the 240sx and quite expirienced track wise so i dont worry about that, as long as the pads were installed correctly, i dont see why this would happen

maybe rocks got in there? Just guessing.

anyways, please keep us up to date what Don says. thanks. and good luck!

[thx247]

someone on FA asked about rocks- I dipped two wheels off track once and there was a good amount of dust in the air (drifters going off track =) but I never took it off road.

The rotor does not have any cracks that I can see in it although it is damaged on the surface. I guess I'll measure them and get them turned before I head out again. I've got a backup set laying around which I can also turn but swapping rotors at the track is going to be like playing hot potatoe with a 40 pound glowing rock lol.

[Joel 180]

looks like you glazed your pads pretty well! at least you did it with style ;)

maybe invest in some higher temp pads like some RG's or EBC green/red stuff pads for track use.
You rotors look a little stuffed but they may skim ok.

[sykikchimp]

I sure wouldn't use those pads anymore. If the pad material is already delaminating from the backing plate, they are trash. If they came off at speed.. that would be seriously scary.

I would recommend you call up Carbotech or Cobalt Friction. Seriously. If your doing open tracking, then you need better pads than the KVR's.

As for the rotors, they are glazed, but the pads should eventually clean them.. they aren't vibrating are they?

Also, it sounds like you boiled your brake fluid. Get some ATE Super Blue, or Ford Heavy Duty. The ford heavy duty has the benefit of being very cheap. The super blue has the benefit of being blue, so it's easier to tell once you've flushed all the old boiled fluid out.

[thx247]

Ok well here is my conclusion based on this thread and others from other forums.

The KVR's are NOT a track pad. The temperatue at which they begin to break down is too low for them to be usefull for someone driving grip.

If you were drifting I can see how the KVR's would work fine. They are basically a more aggressive street pad which I think stops poorly when cold. I've never driven on the street and overheated my stock pads before.

Maybe if you were just starting to track your car I *guess* you could use the KVR's...but as soon as you start braking hard and late the KVR will quickly be over its head.

Get a full on track pad such as the Porterfield R4 or the Carbotech XP.

I am trying to see right now about getting some Carbotech XP compound on some 89-94 Maxima backing plates and running them with the 180sx rotors and calipers (thanks Mr.Youngs). Brembo blanks are on order.

[thx247]

I am revising my opinion on the KVR's again.


If you drive street fine, they work. They stop worse than OEM when cold, warm up in 2-3 hard stops, and don't frankly grip any better than stock pads.

NO TRACK USE. MAYBE A DRIFT DAY. Or use on the rear rotors but not the front

[kanekz]

thx247: I am not sure if the KVR's have a break in procedure/period but I was just curious if you did break them in or not before your track event. Or did you just slap them in the night before? For the most part, I usually break in any pads for my car and my family's.
But yea, its been said here before quite often that KVR's are definetly not track pads.

[thx247]

apparently you can brake pads in one hour before a track event, so even though I did it a few days before it still should have been fine.

use the brakes for stops 60 to 40, 40 to 10...just small stops until you get the green fade basically where you feel the pad lose some grip. Park the car and wait for the pads to cool and then thats it.