Is a LSD needed for weekend fun?

[burtonrida133]

Hey I want to take my SR20'd s14 to the track for some weekend open drift days this year and i am wondering if i should install a LSD? Is is necessary? Will i break anything in my car without one? thanks.

[ILoveMyRHS13]

Yes get an LSD. But not the retarded-ass "VLSD" Get a 2 way or welded diff. Otherwise it's really hard and inconsistent to drift.

[burtonrida133]

Prices offhand? ballpark range?? and where to get one...could i use a used one?

[ILoveMyRHS13]

A welded diff shouldn't be much at all. Find a spare open diff and have a shop weld the spider gears. A 2-way could be anywhere from $500-$800 used and more for new stuff.

[burtonrida133]

A welded diff shouldn't be much at all. Find a spare open diff and have a shop weld the spider gears. A 2-way could be anywhere from $500-$800 used and more for new stuff.

thank you very much

[95KA-Turbo]

LSD is great for weekend fun, it'll blow your mind!



Sorry, I had to. In all seriousness though, you should get a welded diff at minimum, LSDs really transform the car. It goes from feeling like a sketchy handful to a smooth, sideways dream.

[Hashiriya415]

Absolutely not needed. It is recommended. I have been doing the impossible with open diff and automatic s14. Peoples jaws drop when they see and I tell em it's auto and open diff.

Let me see if I have a vid of the s14, but here is some s13 open diff action. A bit hard to see, and excuse the lack of aero
YouTube - S13 prototype 180SX 240SX Drift (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buuvZMlJDWY)

[95KA-Turbo]

By lack of aero I assume you mean lack of chassis, lol.

Looked like classic open diff action, of sweeping lefts in to tank slapping rights and quick J-turns that result in holding the gas down and spinning around and doing it again.


'Drifting' with a welded diff or LSD is 100000 times more fun then that.

[ILoveMyRHS13]

Not to mention once you've gotten used to an open diff and you put a REAL diff in the car will feel a million times different and you'll have to re-learn some.

[burtonrida133]

thank you, i will def get an LSD! haha

[Hashiriya415]

Open diff is definitely fun, as you have to create the big over-steer in the rear, similar to making a FWD drift.
I was actually just zig zagging on the straight road but it's very hard to see.

[lflkajfj12123]

^ I can't believe you're trying to justify being a broke ass

[ManoNegra]

can't believe people justify welding diffs...

[dazed]

Since it's your daily a welded would take a slight getting used to first. If you could afford an LSD, make sure that one would be street-able too, and a lot of diffs chatter when you take corners.

I'd say try looking at the ATS Super Silent LSD, or even better the Carbonetic LSD.

But that shit is expensive and a welded can arguably do the job just as well, ie some d1 drivers prefer to use welded.

[zooopreme]

Welded diffs are definitely for cheap fun. A 1.5 way or 2 way is what you seek for weekend fun but not exactly cost friendly if you're on a budget. But a VLSD is nice too, it all just depends on how well it locks if it locks at all.

[240_SeX]

can't believe people justify welding diffs...

X2, especially if it's your daily. Possibly the worst thing I was ever talked into. Luckily I've got a spare diff with a Tomei 2 way that's awaiting output shafts.

Welded diffs are sketchy for DDs, sometimes my car will stop itself when coasting into a parking spot.

That being said, if you drift a lot, do it. Its way better than open diffs for drifting.

[X2daC]

^ I can't believe you're trying to justify being a broke ass

http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/9263/1275506770555.jpg

[pndjones]

I all honesty I was in your position about a year and a half ago and I went with a s15 HLSD. I have drove a welded and my HLSD and I would recommend the HLSD. The HLSD is cheaper than clutch types, you wont ever have to replace clutches and it has that OEM quality so its "meant" to last. I haven't had any problems out of it and it is very street-able and predictable but If you want to get sideways it will do that too.

I am expecting a lot of hate from clutch type people. Not I am not talking down clutch types, I'm just saying its too expensive for me. a HLSD goes for about $500-$650 when you can find them. My ex got mine for dirt, she just got lucky though.

Also since its a JDM product you might have a hard time getting one shipped from Japan with the condition there now. But if you can find one here I would definitely recommend it.

[yomisiu]

what do you guys think about the 95-96 j30 diff? is it nice, lol?

[ManoNegra]

Welded diffs are definitely for cheap fun. A 1.5 way or 2 way is what you seek for weekend fun but not exactly cost friendly if you're on a budget. But a VLSD is nice too, it all just depends on how well it locks if it locks at all.

ugh, if you're on a budget then drifting isn't for you.

[Darren]

I have daily driven my s13 w/ welded diff... it's not too bad after a while, but it's definitely noisey and, at times, a hinderance to driving.

If you are not going to drift this thing on a fairly regular basis, i would go with a decent LSD.

Just remember that non helical style LSDs are only good for 30-50,000 kms depending on which ones you get, and then they need to have the clutch packs replaced. Also, alot of them require special fluid and the fluid needs to be changed quite regularly.

Good luck with the decision.

[burtonrida133]

awesome, yeah i think the LSD would fit me better, want to start sliding it every month, gotta save up a little bit first lol

[zooopreme]

Just remember that non helical style LSDs are only good for 30-50,000 kms depending on which ones you get, and then they need to have the clutch packs replaced. Also, alot of them require special fluid and the fluid needs to be changed quite regularly.

This.

Speaking of HLSD, I haven't seen too many S13's or S14's with hlsd's, is it a direct swap in?

In addition to my other post earlier, if the welds such ass, you're looking at damage inside the diff that may not be repairable. So if you drive hard and want to go through a couple of open diffs that are welded so be it.

[omgRWDgoodness!]

can't believe people justify welding diffs...

:kiss:

I'll take my "retarded-ass VLSD" over a broke- AND gay-ass welded. Got it for $80, too.

[KAs14slider]

If you can't drift with an open you just suck as a driver. The learning progression for a complete beginner should be open diff, then go on to a vlsd or welded or a legit diff. I was doing the stock ka open diff for a good 4 years. Even won a beaver run event with it. Yeah, you probably won't be going to VIR or some other track and just connecting the long sweeping turns but learning on an open diff is a good idea. Teaches you to take an unforgiving and good line because with low power and open diff correcting for mistakes is pretty hard. I was never a fan of welded either. I went from open to vlsd to a kaaz 2way.

[herbieS13]

Absolutely not needed. It is recommended. I have been doing the impossible with open diff and automatic s14. Peoples jaws drop when they see and I tell em it's auto and open diff.

Let me see if I have a vid of the s14, but here is some s13 open diff action. A bit hard to see, and excuse the lack of aero
YouTube - S13 prototype 180SX 240SX Drift (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buuvZMlJDWY)


i just watched that video and then it led me into a 1hr youtube binge, somehow i managed to get to cute things exploding (highly recommended if you havnt seen it before)

[Hashiriya415]

^^^exactly what I'm saying. You really have to create the over steer, you can't just floor it like on a locking diff and expect the car to just slide itself. You really have to push the weight around the car.

[chiboy002]

welded diff is good enough for learning basics. IMO welded is fine for testing drifting. Open diff makes it too hard, LSD is too expensive to decide you don't wanna continue after trying.

LSD is good for when you know youre good on a welded and you wanna actually learn. Key word ACTUALLY

[pndjones]

This.

Speaking of HLSD, I haven't seen too many S13's or S14's with hlsd's, is it a direct swap in?

In addition to my other post earlier, if the welds such ass, you're looking at damage inside the diff that may not be repairable. So if you drive hard and want to go through a couple of open diffs that are welded so be it.

I have a s14 with a s15 HLSD in a s13 Pumpkin. So yea its very do-able. I don't know why more people don't do it. I got mine at a really got price so it was a no-brainer for me. But its still not that much from Japan anyway. So to answer your question is it the same r200 Diff housing in the s13, s14 and s15 I do believe that the s15 ring gear is different.

[articdragon192]

I went from the stock VLSD in my Z32 to a 2 way Carbonetic, and it is a whole of a difference. Lock is almost instant when needed. The rear end is a lo more controllable and you can be much more aggressive with a clutch type differential.
Is a diff needed for track fun, either drifting or road racing? It isn't "needed," but highly recommended. Throttle steering is a ton of fun. I can't imagine going back to my VLSD.

[burtonrida133]

all great info, im suprised this thread has gotten this much feedback, helps out alot, please continue to state your opinions on what you have and what you like, everything will help out when i purchase something in the following month

[Shadowhunter]

If you really plan to drift, Minimum Welded Diff. I went from open diff to Kaaz Before I ever hit a race track. The LSD will also make a huge difference for a stock KA or even stock SR. Paired with a 1pc driveshaft and it's like night and day.

[maxtrbo93]

Im interested in welding my diff, its a VLSD (regardless of what you VLSD lovers say)... I want to weld it. I really dont like the unpredicability. I've tried running a nice thick fluid (75/140)... and some thinner stuff (75/90)... and its just not workin for me.

I was wondering how much a shop usually charges to uninstall and weld a differential?

Anything I should tell the shop to do, like what kinda welding to use or any plates to use, somethin like that?

Thanks!

[ILoveMyRHS13]

Im interested in welding my diff, its a VLSD (regardless of what you VLSD lovers say)... I want to weld it. I really dont like the unpredicability. I've tried running a nice thick fluid (75/140)... and some thinner stuff (75/90)... and its just not workin for me.

I was wondering how much a shop usually charges to uninstall and weld a differential?

Anything I should tell the shop to do, like what kinda welding to use or any plates to use, somethin like that?

Thanks!
Honestly you're better off getting an open diff to have welded. It's a pain in the ass to have a viscous welded, if even possible at all. I've seen it done ONCE.

If you really plan to drift, Minimum Welded Diff. I went from open diff to Kaaz Before I ever hit a race track. The LSD will also make a huge difference for a stock KA or even stock SR. Paired with a 1pc driveshaft and it's like night and day.
Yes, the 1 piece drive shaft makes a huuuuge difference. Along with stiffer motor mounts.

I bought a Tomei 2 way a couple months back and I wasn't sure if I liked it at first, but after dailying with it, I love it. Much more so than my old welded diff.

[ManoNegra]

KADE
148 intake / exhaust cams
2 way clutch diff
light flywheel
4.3 final drive
Drift King starter kit...

[ixfxi]

Absolutely not needed. It is recommended. I have been doing the impossible with open diff and automatic s14. Peoples jaws drop when they see and I tell em it's auto and open diff.

Smart man. Sounds like the type of individual who first learned to drive on the basics. In comparison to the millions of idiots on Zilvia who think buying XXX parts enables me to become XXX better at (drifting) (road racing) (drag racing) (sex) etc

You guys can be real stupid sometimes.


can't believe people justify welding diffs...

People should listen to this man more. He actually knows what he's talking about.

Its real amusing that someone can actually suggest a welded diff to the "occasional weekend drift/racer" give me a fucking break. Guy is going to be driving home on a rainy day and end up smashing the fuck out of his car. Whats wrong with you idiots?


I all honesty I was in your position about a year and a half ago and I went with a s15 HLSD. I have drove a welded and my HLSD and I would recommend the HLSD. The HLSD is cheaper than clutch types, you wont ever have to replace clutches and it has that OEM quality so its "meant" to last. I haven't had any problems out of it and it is very street-able and predictable but If you want to get sideways it will do that too.


I sold my Z32 LSD and picked up a S15 HLSD + output shafts. Its a really nice piece and cant wait to use it. Its the most realistic/practical diff for cars that actually are driven on the street. And when I say actually, I mean.. you drive with someone in the car who isnt a fucking car-nerd. You know, like a woman with a va-jayjay. How cool is it hearing CLUNK CLUNK when you're trying to go home and get laid. I forget, many of you guys are 18 and live and home with moms.


ugh, if you're on a budget then drifting isn't for you.

Amen. You should say, if you're on a budget... LIFE isnt for you. Forget cars, forget girls... just give up now or get a fucking real job.


Hey I want to take my SR20'd s14 to the track for some weekend open drift days this year and i am wondering if i should install a LSD? Is is necessary? Will i break anything in my car without one? thanks.

You're welcome.

[pndjones]

^^ I like this guy. He tells it like it is. I'm sure you will love your HLSD, you seem like a practical person. After you drive on it let me know how you like it compared to your VLSD.

[h2v7]

what is a fair price to weld a diff and install it

$150?

[maxtrbo93]

what is a fair price to weld a diff and install it

$150?

Yeah, i'd like to know too.

Unless someone can tell me what other diff with pumpkins i can throw in my car without changing axles and all that shit. Something that just bolts in.

I got a 93 180sx Type X with a VLSD.

So i can go buy an open diff and weld it before hand.

[burtonrida133]

what is a fair price to weld a diff and install it

$150?

x2 i want to know....

[nomoremk2]

Just find someone/somewhere who can do the job and rip your diff out of the pumpkin. I just paid a friend 20 bucks to do mine. Most shops shouldn't want too much for it unless you make them do all the work of installation. Make damn sure you're ready to commit to that on your daily before you ruin your diff though.

[Forge_55b]

what is a fair price to weld a diff and install it

$150?

you can usually find em already welded in a carrier for $50

[leung]

$50. Alot of already welded diffs already in the for sale section. Seen the already welded ones go anywhere from 50-80 bucks

[sviellvoicae]

I love my welded diff. No issues with it other than tearing up tires in no time, but I accepted that before putting it in. Its not as bad as everyone makes it in the rain. It has been non stop raining here and I have driven in the rain many times with it and no problems what so ever. Just dont be stupid while driving period. Of course I would love to get a real lsd, but I dont see a need for it right now.Everyone is going to have different opinions and nobody is correct. My 2 cents. Smart guys tear me apart now I guess.....

[h2v7]

ok 50 for the welded diff

how much would someone charge to swap em out?

[MrChow]

Im interested in welding my diff, its a VLSD (regardless of what you VLSD lovers say)... I want to weld it. I really dont like the unpredicability. I've tried running a nice thick fluid (75/140)... and some thinner stuff (75/90)... and its just not workin for me.

I was wondering how much a shop usually charges to uninstall and weld a differential?

Anything I should tell the shop to do, like what kinda welding to use or any plates to use, somethin like that?

Thanks!

Honestly you're better off getting an open diff to have welded. It's a pain in the ass to have a viscous welded, if even possible at all. I've seen it done ONCE.


Just for your guys information you cannot weld a viscous diff.

[mau5trap]

J30.

msglength

[ILoveMyRHS13]

Just for your guys information you cannot weld a viscous diff.
Yeah I figured, but this was the only one I've ever seen and it's from DriftWorks.
http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs432.snc3/24887_10150158568980063_849450062_11498065_3825284 _n.jpg

[Zentraedi]

win thread, great info. I am contemplating a diff also, my car is euro spec S14 with VLSD and it is definitely not predictable even in a straight line if it starts to slightly lose grip in 2nd/3rd it pulls left or right, kind off like power steer in FWD but without the steering going ape shit.

My issue is 1.5 or 2 way?!?!? I cannot make a decision. What are the pros and cons for each?

[joshls2]

^^ did you mean torque steer?

so.. ones with experience, what are your guys' opinions on shiming VLSDs??

[nathanong87]

win thread, great info. I am contemplating a diff also, my car is euro spec S14 with VLSD and it is definitely not predictable even in a straight line if it starts to slightly lose grip in 2nd/3rd it pulls left or right, kind off like power steer in FWD but without the steering going ape shit.

My issue is 1.5 or 2 way?!?!? I cannot make a decision. What are the pros and cons for each?

2way locks under accel and decel, depends on ur driving style really.

some diffs like nismo can be changed to do either

1.5 is a little better for "daily" driving, whatever that means.

[ixfxi]

win thread, great info. I am contemplating a diff also, my car is euro spec S14 with VLSD and it is definitely not predictable even in a straight line if it starts to slightly lose grip in 2nd/3rd it pulls left or right, kind off like power steer in FWD but without the steering going ape shit.

My issue is 1.5 or 2 way?!?!? I cannot make a decision. What are the pros and cons for each?

you want the answer?

your VLSD is broken. either its worn to shit or someone filled it with normal gear oil (w/o limited slip additive).

maybe you did too much freeway manji... dont lie, i see you're location. you're from bahrain!!! i've seen those crazy arab drift videos.... which are totally awesome BTW.

i would pay big money to see that shit in real life... someday, i will take a trip to kuwait and see all of this madness.

- al waheed

[WanganRunner]

ok 50 for the welded diff

how much would someone charge to swap em out?


Do it yourself.

A shop is going to charge you 2-3 hours of labor to swap a pumpkin, most likely, which is idiotic if you're putting in a $50 welded diff.

[pndjones]

Im not sure if you guys realize that then shop is simply going to remove the diff cover drain the fluid wipe off the gears and create 2 welds on the gears while it is still in the pumpkin. then to install you need to remove 4 bolts on your drive shaft, 12 little bolts on your axles and 6 or 4 bolts on your diff depending if you have a s13 or 14. Its really not that bad. If you have a jack and jack stands and know how to turn a wrench and can bench press 100 lbs you can do this. If you have a motorcycle/atv jack you have no excuse. Save yourself the $100 or what ever they charge for install and diy. Trust my your money pit will take that $100 from you later. And beside you will need to know how your car works so you can fix other stuff that may go wrong later.

[Zentraedi]

you want the answer?

your VLSD is broken. either its worn to shit or someone filled it with normal gear oil (w/o limited slip additive).

maybe you did too much freeway manji... dont lie, i see you're location. you're from bahrain!!! i've seen those crazy arab drift videos.... which are totally awesome BTW.

i would pay big money to see that shit in real life... someday, i will take a trip to kuwait and see all of this madness.

- al waheed

Lol, that crazy stuff you talking about is in Saudi, we don't do that in Bahrain. We call it Kamakazi Drifting.

How can I check if my diff is broken?

[Zentraedi]

2way locks under accel and decel, depends on ur driving style really.

some diffs like nismo can be changed to do either

1.5 is a little better for "daily" driving, whatever that means.

Can you please explain locking under decel?

Is the 1.5 a good diff for drifting?

[wannabdr1ftr]

who5AG3MjNQ

[lflkajfj12123]

2-Way is constantly locked under acceleration or deceleration and makes for better braking control

1.5-Way is locked on acceleration and much less under deceleration and makes for easier turn in and faster entries but less control when hard braking compared to a 2-Way

both can be used for drifting its mainly a personal preference thing

i wouldn't recommend a 2-way for lower speed driving like auto-x as the car tends to understeer around corners

which is why people claim welded diffs are dangerous for daily driving in the rain as you may understeer into something not because the car breaks traction easy

welded will constantly be locked (obviously) and will clunk or chirp tires around corners compared to a clutch type LSD which will not do this AS MUCH until under more torque from the engine

i personally have no problem with welded diffs but you have to be a little more cautious with them

a Kaaz LSD right now runs for 1,000 dollars compared to a $100 welded

welded diff is also extremely predictable and doesn't wear out over time

if you have the money spend it on a real LSD if not go with a welded and spend the rest on seat time and tires

[mikerbike]

Guy is going to be driving home on a rainy day and end up smashing the fuck out of his car.

Have you ever seen a wreck caused by a welded diff in the rain or snow? Just wondering.

[maxtrbo93]

Have you ever seen a wreck caused by a welded diff in the rain or snow? Just wondering.

ill give that a 99% chance of the answer being no

Most people who actually weld a diff, know what they are using it for and USUALLY have the know-how to control a vehicle in different conditions.

[towlie]

I have a welded, its not bad. Would I rather have a name brand aftermarket diff? Absolutely, it was a matter of needing something other than open before some local shindigs.

As far as daily driving, it's not a hassle. I live in Oregon, so that's all I drive in, is rain lol. You just need to be an attentive driver (ie, not texting, not jockin your girls tits, etc.)

I don't know why the hell you would remove an oem 180sx viscous for a welded though

[maxtrbo93]

I have a welded, its not bad. Would I rather have a name brand aftermarket diff? Absolutely, it was a matter of needing something other than open before some local shindigs.

As far as daily driving, it's not a hassle. I live in Oregon, so that's all I drive in, is rain lol. You just need to be an attentive driver (ie, not texting, not jockin your girls tits, etc.)

I don't know why the hell you would remove an oem 180sx viscous for a welded though

Because of the reasons ive previously stated?

[towlie]

Because of the reasons ive previously stated?

Smeh.

You have a viscous stock. Why worry about it?

[usdm180sx]

If you daily your shit don't get a fucking welded get a 1.5 or 2 way LSD. Welded + bald tires in the rain = accident waiting to happen.

[WanganRunner]

I'll probably run welded for a little while.

Will be a few months until I get my DeftForce back.

[Bushido]

love my welded diff.

it made the car 100% more fun to drive.

shitty to go through a set of potenza re050's in 2 months daily driving though..

i wonder why there isn't an electronic locking differential for our cars, similar to offroad equipment, unlock for daily driving, then hit a switch and the wheels are locked.

[ixfxi]

Lol, that crazy stuff you talking about is in Saudi, we don't do that in Bahrain. We call it Kamakazi Drifting.

How can I check if my diff is broken?

i would start by doing a simple job, swap the old fluid out for LSD-grade gear oil. if it doesnt make a difference, then buy yourself an S15 HLSD or something to your liking based on your criteria. i chose s15 hlsd because helical is boss, its practically the most bullet-proof and maintenance free diff option out there. plus its factory, which gets extra points. i've never been a big fan of super pricey, high-maint aftermarket dood-dads.


Have you ever seen a wreck caused by a welded diff in the rain or snow? Just wondering.

ill give that a 99% chance of the answer being no

Most people who actually weld a diff, know what they are using it for and USUALLY have the know-how to control a vehicle in different conditions.

who would agree to witnessing something so stupid? its like imagine me saying "yes, i am a human street camera and i've taken statistics among the population of idiot drivers who've crashed their cars and then acquired post-data pertaining to a persons vehicle modifications. based on that research, yes, i have seen numerous people with XXX modifications crash their cars"

the bottom line here is, most people who own 240's and are on this forum, are fucking young retards (like I once was) who want to have something different and sporty. what they fail to realize is, by living at home, by having a single car, and by being broke.. you neither have the funds, skill, experience, nor is it practical to equip your one and only car with such a idiotic modification. imagine that, common student by day - world class racer by night.

what the others would say is "its not that bad" because they too have done idiotic things. i mean, i dont go to 240 meets anymore but most of the time when i have gone more recently, i cringe at the mass amount of mod-fail cars i see. every modification is piss poor with no consideration to safety, reliability, or longevity. its always craptastic trendy shit like knockoff seats, knockoff wheels, turbos that arent installed properly, jb welded this, and a bunch of modifications that arent worth a damn.

if you want to weld your diff, i would suggest only doing so if its installed for track use and then removed for street use. it makes no sense and is only stupid using it on the street, you wear the fuck out of your tires (and i run top dollar tires).. and you'll look like a complete shithead when you head pulled over by a cop and as you're turning into a lot you hear your cars tires chirping. more reason to get anally bent over by mister officer.

best of luck guys, all i am saying is use your head

[vboy720]

have been running for 3+years on my daily. Been through all the elements, and its fine for a attentive driver. Just funny when you park because your tires will screech, and the back of your car will sound like its breaking, so people look at you funny.

[dan240]

you want the answer?

your VLSD is broken. either its worn to shit or someone filled it with normal gear oil (w/o limited slip additive).

- al waheed

The factory Nissan VLSD is a sealed unit. The diff doesn't require anything but gear oil.

If its worn out you can try shimming it to try to get some more life out of it. If you you do shim it you're probably on borrowed time.

[ixfxi]

The factory Nissan VLSD is a sealed unit. The diff doesn't require anything but gear oil.

please be specific, thanks.

[drivens13]

Yes from my understanding the vlsd is a sealed unit that is not serviceable. You fill the pumkin with the recommended 75-90 gear oil and drive.

I have had experience with vlsd,vlsd shimmed,welded,1.5 nismo,2way kaaz,s15 helical and 2 way carbonetic. I have to say 2 way carbonetic is awesome but requires a lot of maintenance and is expensive. The way to go for most is s15 helical or vlsd street/welded track combo.

[pndjones]

^^ agreed. I feel that welded diffs are for people with experience, and most not all 240 owners don't have that. I remember when I pick up my s14 (my first rear wheel drive car) if I had a welded diff I would probably have hurt myself. now there may be people out there that are just born better drivers than me and a welded might be good for them but thats not all of us. and remember we are all out here to have lots fun. so lets not kill ourselves because then the fun is over.. just saying.

[maxtrbo93]

Yes i'm young, but i have owned many different diff setups.

The Tomei 2-way in my S13 Silvia
Nismo 1.5 in my first S14 Silvia
Welded in my 2nd S14 Silvia
and now VLSD in this 180sx i have.

I hate the VLSD and the welded was the most fun because it was the most predictable.

I change tires every week or more on my daily, i don't run amazing tires for that reason. I go to my high school and use the tire changer, i have deals with the Nissan dealerships in town and I get all the used tires out the back door of tire shops for 20$ if they are in good shape, so tires isnt a good argument. I drift the shit outta my car whenever i get the chance, its all in good fun. A little noise from the rear and and some more necessary car control when it's raining is a small price to pay for predictability. There has been LOTS of times where I've clutch kicked or e braked into a drift and the rear hasn't locked up like I wanted it to (with this VLSD) and I have gotten shit tonnes of under-steer because of it.

I hate the VLSD, it can die.

[mikerbike]

If you daily your shit don't get a fucking welded get a 1.5 or 2 way LSD. Welded + bald tires in the rain = accident waiting to happen.

Have you ever witnessed something like that happen? Video? Pics? Stories? Anything? Be honest. And post a link.

[dan240]

please be specific, thanks.

I will be more specific.....

NO

It is a SEALED unit. The factory VLSD does not need anything but regular gear oil of the correct viscosity. No additives, no special LSD oil.

Please edit your post.

[Darren]

Speaking of HLSD, I haven't seen too many S13's or S14's with hlsd's, is it a direct swap in?

http://zilvia.net/f/chat/45791-helical-lsd-into-s13.html
QDF7L - Quaife Engineering (http://www.quaife.co.uk/shop/products/qdf7l-1)

just a couple of "bolt in" helical options... well just as "bolt in" as a J30 or R200 diff...

nice thing is, they last as long as a trans would, nearly forever if treated well...

[Darren]

Have you ever witnessed something like that happen? Video? Pics? Stories? Anything? Be honest. And post a link.

I have to agree, regardless of welded diff or not, bald tires & rain is a bad combo lol...

[ixfxi]

I will be more specific.....

NO

It is a SEALED unit. The factory VLSD does not need anything but regular gear oil of the correct viscosity. No additives, no special LSD oil.

Please edit your post.

I was always under the impression that the viscous types required specific gear oil.

Wow, I learned something this morning. Thanks Zilvia!

[Zentraedi]

http://zilvia.net/f/chat/45791-helical-lsd-into-s13.html
QDF7L - Quaife Engineering (http://www.quaife.co.uk/shop/products/qdf7l-1)

just a couple of "bolt in" helical options... well just as "bolt in" as a J30 or R200 diff...

nice thing is, they last as long as a trans would, nearly forever if treated well...

Will the quaife be a good application for drifting?

[codyace]

I was always under the impression that the viscous types required specific gear oil.

Wow, I learned something this morning. Thanks Zilvia!

That can not be applied across the board. For nissan VLSD it is correct that they are sealed and you should use the GL5 fluid. However on other trucks and cars they do require limited slip additive for them (Ford especially).


FWIW: Ford LSD additive is great for aftermarket LSD's..cheap, and can be found anywhere. However if you have access to the Spicer LSD additive, it's even better stuff.

[dan240]

That can not be applied across the board. For nissan VLSD it is correct that they are sealed and you should use the GL5 fluid. However on other trucks and cars they do require limited slip additive for them (Ford especially).


FWIW: Ford LSD additive is great for aftermarket LSD's..cheap, and can be found anywhere. However if you have access to the Spicer LSD additive, it's even better stuff.

I am not aware of any VISCOUS limited slips that require friction modifiers (additives). Viscous limited slips typically uses silicone based oils and are sealed.

I'm also not aware of any Ford Truck Limited Slips that are Viscous. All the ones I've ever seen are clutch type limited slips. A clutch type limited slip requires a friction modifier.

I would imagine that some (or all) Ford SUV's and Crossovers have VLSD's but any of the F150, 250, 350 trucks are going to have a clutch pack. In general a car is going to have a VLSD and a Truck (a real one) is going to have a clutch pack.

[BURSTspeed]

2-Way is constantly locked under acceleration or deceleration and makes for better braking control

1.5-Way is locked on acceleration and much less under deceleration and makes for easier turn in and faster entries but less control when hard braking compared to a 2-Way

both can be used for drifting its mainly a personal preference thing

i wouldn't recommend a 2-way for lower speed driving like auto-x as the car tends to understeer around corners

which is why people claim welded diffs are dangerous for daily driving in the rain as you may understeer into something not because the car breaks traction easy

welded will constantly be locked (obviously) and will clunk or chirp tires around corners compared to a clutch type LSD which will not do this AS MUCH until under more torque from the engine

i personally have no problem with welded diffs but you have to be a little more cautious with them

a Kaaz LSD right now runs for 1,000 dollars compared to a $100 welded

welded diff is also extremely predictable and doesn't wear out over time

if you have the money spend it on a real LSD if not go with a welded and spend the rest on seat time and tires

Damn, couldn't have said it better myself. Listen to this guy.

[codyace]

I am not aware of any VISCOUS limited slips that require friction modifiers (additives). Viscous limited slips typically uses silicone based oils and are sealed.

I'm also not aware of any Ford Truck Limited Slips that are Viscous. All the ones I've ever seen are clutch type limited slips. A clutch type limited slip requires a friction modifier.

I would imagine that some (or all) Ford SUV's and Crossovers have VLSD's but any of the F150, 250, 350 trucks are going to have a clutch pack. In general a car is going to have a VLSD and a Truck (a real one) is going to have a clutch pack.

True, I'm talking in the generic usage of the word limited slip though, not specifically to any which thing. Often times people confuse the application, so it's hard to remain on point without sometimes speaking generally haha. (trust me, we learn all sorts of new words /slang / wrong usages at the shop, sometimes it just wears off on us)

[ixfxi]

two words for you chumps: detroit locker

dunno how it works, dunno what it is, and dont care. just love the nickname.

how come we dont have a cool diff like that. kazz? torqsen? booo! i want the DETROIT LOCKER

reminds me of that chappelle joke, fuck the juice.. i want that grape DRINK!

[zooopreme]

I'm very unfamiliar with HLSD, I don't understand much about it except that it locks by the gears, but what makes it different from a 1.5 or 2 way LSD?

[HS13KLS]

I personally have had a nismo 2 way, kaaz 2 way, welded, and a vlsd.

If you have the cash I think the 2 way is a must just because its so much more comfortable for a daily.
If you just want to drift get a welded- its not terrible for a daily.

a vlsd if you can get it cheap. I have one in my s14 and it seems to lock up just fine but its not as predictable as the welded/2 way

[dan240]

two words for you chumps: detroit locker

dunno how it works, dunno what it is, and dont care. just love the nickname.

how come we dont have a cool diff like that. kazz? torqsen? booo! i want the DETROIT LOCKER


A detroit locker is a one-way automatic locking diff and when they lock they are very aggressive. People who have them figure out how to drive with them but the few times I've driven a car with a detroit locker on the street it sucked. You'd be headed into a corner on the brakes, the diff would unlock, then you get back on the gas, the diff takes a split second to decide its now going to lock and you end up three feet over in the next lane. I wouldn't think a one-way diff would be very good for drifting either. Drag racers use them. Dirt trackers use them. Rock crawlers use them.

I believe ARB makes a selectable locker for both R180 and R200 diffs. They are pneumatically driven with a switch to your dashboard. You can then turn it off (open diff) and then on (locked/spool). They are not cheap (?$800).

[RNGWLD]

I have to agree, regardless of welded diff or not, bald tires & rain is a bad combo lol...
+1000

DONT drive with bald tires.
ABSOLUTELY DONT drive with bald tires and a welded diff. Your car will try to shift lanes even at 20mphs. Its not fun at all.


That said, get some good tires, and drive carefully. Been dailying a welded for a while now, and honestly its not as bad as I thought it would be. You just have to know that it is there, always.
So no you cant take fast corners in the rain or you will spin. Drive it responsible and its a lot of fun for cheap.

[towlie]

two words for you chumps: detroit locker

dunno how it works, dunno what it is, and dont care. just love the nickname.

how come we dont have a cool diff like that. kazz? torqsen? booo! i want the DETROIT LOCKER

reminds me of that chappelle joke, fuck the juice.. i want that grape DRINK!

Detroit lockers are mainly popular with drag racers and rock crawlers, I doubt it would be a wise choice for a drifting application

[Zentraedi]

Anybody have any first hand experience with a helical and drifting?

[Forge_55b]

the difference with a helical while drifting is that it is torque sensing so it kind of acts the same way a viscous would act (crappy) but is a bit more precise since it is gears rather than fluid that cause engagement

if you want to drift but don't have money, just weld and be done.

if you have money go with a 1.5 obviously but a welded is fine and simple enough to drive

[ixfxi]

two words for you chumps: detroit locker

dunno how it works, dunno what it is, and dont care. just love the nickname.

how come we dont have a cool diff like that. kazz? torqsen? booo! i want the DETROIT LOCKER

reminds me of that chappelle joke, fuck the juice.. i want that grape DRINK!


A detroit locker is a one-way automatic locking diff and when they lock they are very aggressive. People who have them figure out how to drive with them but the few times I've driven a car with a detroit locker on the street it sucked. You'd be headed into a corner on the brakes, the diff would unlock, then you get back on the gas, the diff takes a split second to decide its now going to lock and you end up three feet over in the next lane. I wouldn't think a one-way diff would be very good for drifting either. Drag racers use them. Dirt trackers use them. Rock crawlers use them.

I believe ARB makes a selectable locker for both R180 and R200 diffs. They are pneumatically driven with a switch to your dashboard. You can then turn it off (open diff) and then on (locked/spool). They are not cheap (?$800).

Detroit lockers are mainly popular with drag racers and rock crawlers, I doubt it would be a wise choice for a drifting application

thank you bill nye, the science guy.

[lflkajfj12123]

Drive it responsible and its a lot of fun for cheap.

Deep.　　　　　　　

[yomisiu]

Is the 95-96 j30 a VLSD or LSD. I dont know much about these things. I know a lot of people do the swap but I dont see u guys talking about it. does it suck or something?

[soreballz]

Every J30 ever made came with a VLSD.

[DenkiMan!]

i love my welded

[pndjones]

Is the 95-96 j30 a VLSD or LSD. I dont know much about these things. I know a lot of people do the swap but I dont see u guys talking about it. does it suck or something?

LSD stands for Limited Slip Differential. The V before stands for Viscous. This tells you that the way the LSD works is by a Viscous fluid in the Differential that resist motion so as one wheel slips, hence limited slip the Viscous fluid reacts and "locks" or attempts to distribute power to the wheels. Viscous Differentials are not very consistent in performance. And keep in mind they are 15 years old. I am sure that at one time they weren't so unreliable.

Just so you know the H in HLSD stands for helical.

Also, All this can be found online. I understand you are new here but you will get flamed here. If you don't know what flame means... well.. there is your first research project. :) I try to be nice to new people because we all have to start somewhere but its always better to learn from your own research.

one more thing this is my understanding of a VLSD if someone has KNOWS otherwise please let me know, Thanks. I hope this helps.

[HayaiSaru]

Welded for drifting is fine, but if you're serious about getting better or want to do road racing LSD is the only option

[ManoNegra]

Is the 95-96 j30 a VLSD or LSD. I dont know much about these things. I know a lot of people do the swap but I dont see u guys talking about it. does it suck or something?

no, they can be had for cheap
plenty of them in the junkyards
early ones have 5 bolt axles so you need to weary of that
abs pumpkins may mess with your driveshaft length

[David B S12]

too bad they dont make lsd's for my s chassis. or id have one.

my solid axle h190 diff had some nismo race track ones made awhile back, but there arent within a good price range and dont really exist.

reasons why i have a welded.

vlsd is great for a dd. mostly when your lowerd and 3 wheeling into your driveway. thats all its good for

[yomisiu]

LSD stands for Limited Slip Differential. The V before stands for Viscous. This tells you that the way the LSD works is by a Viscous fluid in the Differential that resist motion so as one wheel slips, hence limited slip the Viscous fluid reacts and "locks" or attempts to distribute power to the wheels. Viscous Differentials are not very consistent in performance. And keep in mind they are 15 years old. I am sure that at one time they weren't so unreliable.

Just so you know the H in HLSD stands for helical.

Also, All this can be found online. I understand you are new here but you will get flamed here. If you don't know what flame means... well.. there is your first research project. :) I try to be nice to new people because we all have to start somewhere but its always better to learn from your own research.

one more thing this is my understanding of a VLSD if someone has KNOWS otherwise please let me know, Thanks. I hope this helps.

Right, thanks. I looked around and was slightly confused because a few times they label the J30 diff as a LSD and a VLSD. Kinda confusing. :squint:

I see a lot of people dissing VLSD's because of their unpredictability so I think I'll try out the welded before I shell out some big bucks. I'm aware of the welded's draw backs, but whatever. :)

[HayaiSaru]

Right, thanks. I looked around and was slightly confused because a few times they label the J30 diff as a LSD and a VLSD. Kinda confusing. :squint:

I see a lot of people dissing VLSD's because of their unpredictability so I think I'll try out the welded before I shell out some big bucks. I'm aware of the welded's draw backs, but whatever. :)

VLSD uses hydrodynamic friction from fluids to lock. It works ok for like 5 mins, but once the fluid overheats, it turns into an open diff.