Ever Try Meth/Water injection?

[BlackZenkiS14]

Any of you guys ever try meth?

I just increased my boost significantly, and am thinking I might want to add a water/meth kit to keep things cool and classy.

Im thinking about a direct port Meth kit on my S14 SR.

The car will be used for fun street driving, drag racing, but mostly drifting, and Im not sure how practical it will be for that use.

What is your experience?

[codyace]

Direct port is nice, but probably overkill on yoursetup. A single fogger would work just as good.

I've used my setup now for a while, and have FWD friends who love it as well. I'm not tuned for more boost/power, just for detonation resistance on hot track days when I want to crank the boost to get by some cars :D

[BlackZenkiS14]

Direct port is nice, but probably overkill on yoursetup. A single fogger would work just as good.

I've used my setup now for a while, and have FWD friends who love it as well. I'm not tuned for more boost/power, just for detonation resistance on hot track days when I want to crank the boost to get by some cars :D

That would be my exact goal as well, I dont care for more power. 18psi on a T28 is plenty enough power, I just want to bring temps down, and decrease chance of knock for hot track days, and make the power I am making now just cooler and safer, exactly.

Whats your setup? Whats it feel like? What are you tuning with? Whats the maintenance(filling tank, how often)? etc.

Thanks man!

[Emeru]

That would be my exact goal as well, I dont care for more power. 18psi on a T28 is plenty enough power, I just want to bring temps down, and decrease chance of knock for hot track days, and make the power I am making now just cooler and safer, exactly.

Whats your setup? Whats it feel like? What are you tuning with? Whats the maintenance(filling tank, how often)? etc.

Thanks man!

x2
i have been thinking about this for a while now and would like the knowledge as well.

[codyace]

That would be my exact goal as well, I dont care for more power. 18psi on a T28 is plenty enough power, I just want to bring temps down, and decrease chance of knock for hot track days, and make the power I am making now just cooler and safer, exactly.

Whats your setup? Whats it feel like? What are you tuning with? Whats the maintenance(filling tank, how often)? etc.

Thanks man!

My setup is controlled through my Jim Wolf ECU...it uses an RPM (4000) and TPS (>85%) to work. There is no need to spray below that at all, even with it making boost. Plus anything below 4 grand still references the knock sensor.

I have a custom setup, using a Snow Performance pump/tank/nozzle, but my own mount in the trunk. Also has an inline selonoid up front (anti siphoning)

Feel wise, it's equivelent to running the car on a cool fall day, vs a hot muggy July track day. Youcan most certainly see it running. Temp wise, it seems to help marginally keep total temps down as well. I didn't want to push the car on mid or high boost without having it

[BlackZenkiS14]

Do you drive your car on the street at all? How often do you need to refill the meth tank? Like every time you fill up the car with gas?

[R33E8]

Yeah meth is awesome.. I have a snow performance stage 2 kit that runs off the maf sensor and it works very well... Since I daily drive my car, I vary my driving style a lot so I don't fill it on a regular basis.. After like a full day of fooling around I may have to refill it but I usually only have to fill it once every 2 weeks or so.. I'm also running their largest nozzle that came with the kit.. if you run a smaller nozzle then your tank will last a lot longer.. I paid $20 for 5 gallons of meth which lasts about a full summer..

In terms of how does it feel, you don't really feel anything when it starts spraying if you are tuned for it.. If you aren't tuned for it then your engine is going to go rich and bog a bit..

As far as tuning, I'm using a bikirom, but any air/fuel controller can work.. If you want to make more power you will need to adjust the timing as well... For tuning a good target afr in boost is like 12:1-12.5:1 WITH METH.. I've also ran up to 25lb's of boost on my 35r ka-t with no problem.. My friend's evo runs up to 35lb's of boost with a fp black turbo and meth(aquamist kit).. All on 93 pump..

Make sure you have 2 maps though... My meth controller is broken and was sent in for repair so I'm running no-meth at the moment.. I had to switch back to my old map because the afr's would get too lean in boost without the meth..

I'm going to be doing a 2jz swap and will probably put a nozzle in each intake manifold runner for better distribution... Meth is definitely the way to go if you want more power on pump gas..

[codyace]

Do you drive your car on the street at all? How often do you need to refill the meth tank? Like every time you fill up the car with gas?

I do drive it on the street as much as posisble in the spring/summer/fall area, and it doesn't really use a bunch. I use windshield washer fluid so it's super cheap.

Rate wise, it's hard to say...I don't use it on low boost (10psi) so it lasts me quite a while as that's what I normally run (290ish whp) all the time. During a track day, i'll go through about 1 gallon though. (Figure 2.5 hours of WOT)

[BlackZenkiS14]

Thats badass. Im getting excited about this.

Also, the reason I am going to go direct port, is that I have a buddy selling a very nice Direct port kit for less than it would cost for me to put together a single nozzle kit, and the direct port would be more consistent/safer.

[kanekoa28]

i love my meth setup on my evo. It lets me run 30psi. Ofcourse I went with one of the good kits hfs-6. Expensive but well worth the money.

I use denatured alky in my tank btw

[BlackZenkiS14]

Any of you guys drifting with Meth? I was wondering how the in and out throttle blipping will affect a meth tuned car?

I just lost my motor because of detonation, and Im not going to do it again. :( I was apparently too late on the meth.

[mr_eh]

Any of you guys drifting with Meth? I was wondering how the in and out throttle blipping will affect a meth tuned car?

I just lost my motor because of detonation, and Im not going to do it again. :( I was apparently too late on the meth.

I had a AEM meth setup on my srt4 was safely running 28lbs with it on a 50 trim - I wouldn't be concerned too much with blipping the throttle as I would with sloshing around the fluid...

[codyace]

Thats badass. Im getting excited about this.

Also, the reason I am going to go direct port, is that I have a buddy selling a very nice Direct port kit for less than it would cost for me to put together a single nozzle kit, and the direct port would be more consistent/safer.

It won't make much diffference really. I know with mine it requires WOT and +4k to even spray.

[BlackZenkiS14]

lol Well I wish I would have done this before my motor let go last spring. Definitely looking into a kit now.

Looking at Devil's Own kits. For track days, drift days, drag racing, etc...

If I already have a very clean, and safe JWT tune on the car, and just want to install meth for safety purposes, would I need to adjust the tune at all? I will be using a Devil's Own kit with their Ramp controller and 50/50 mix.

[codyace]

With the JWT ECU, you can actually have Clark program in a water map, and then run a a super simple water setup that is activated by the ECU.

[mattsil80wis]

With the JWT ECU, you can actually have Clark program in a water map, and then run a a super simple water setup that is activated by the ECU.

going through this process right now

Clark does a good job of making it very simple to put together. Solder like 2 wires and its good to go.

[n8RPS13]

I have a devils own stage 2k meth injection setup for my ka24der and notice a tremendous difference! Definitely worth it if you are tracking your car or live in a hot climate.

[BlackZenkiS14]

With the JWT ECU, you can actually have Clark program in a water map, and then run a a super simple water setup that is activated by the ECU.

Yea, Im trying to do it without having the car down for 4+ weeks in the peak of the season waiting to get the ECU done, and also to keep costs down. I think they said it would be like 300+ to get the map done. But I cant remember.

Does Clark work for JWT, I assume?

I'm currently looking at the Devil's Own DVC-30 kit.

[mattsil80wis]

Does Clark work for JWT, I assume?

.

yes he does

[JDM SPUG]

I ran an AEM meth kit in my Subie with a rotated setup. I think its worth the money how much stronger the car felt.

Go for it.

[2bad240]

I had a snow boost reference kit on my wrx. Running boost juice and in the 1/8th mile it would give me. 3 tenths and about 2mph. I had a single nozzle right before the TB

[godrifttoday]

Here mine. I got mine from my buddy he was running it previously on his Evo
http://img.tapatalk.com/c6e4d09a-6b96-ed21.jpg

[codyace]

You could obviously wire in your own setup, or go with the ECU based way. It maybe worth contacting JWT saying that you have an ECU, and would like another with the Water setup, and then exchanging yours...

I personally like the way JWT sets up their system, as it's failproof and correct. I don't like external controllers, as it's just another point of failure ya know?

[anton1o]

I done some pretty expensive research thru Meth and Water injection and in the end i just couldnt come to a decision on what to choose and what would be better, Although i was not just looking at it from a Safety Point of view but also wanted to gain some more down low power.

So now i just opted for a Nitrous setup, just waiting for the engine to be finished zzzzzz.

[dopplganger1]

I do drive it on the street as much as posisble in the spring/summer/fall area, and it doesn't really use a bunch. I use windshield washer fluid so it's super cheap.


stupid question but can you honestly use windshield washer fluid. I wouldn't think so but I have no clue about the water/meth.

[Imarvin240]

stupid question but can you honestly use windshield washer fluid. I wouldn't think so but I have no clue about the water/meth.

you can, but not all washer fluid is useable, only certain types.

[cotbu]

Blue
30% methanol, 70% water
rated for -20 deg F
mix 3 12oz of heat to every gallon of blue -20

[BlackZenkiS14]

I personally like the way JWT sets up their system, as it's failproof and correct. I don't like external controllers, as it's just another point of failure ya know?

yea, I get that. And so far, have been very happy with my JWT setup. I will contact them and see what can be done, and I might just go with a Devil's Own kit for now, and then have JWT do their programming over the winter, while I dont mind the car being down.

[Chrischeezer]

I have done a ton of research and settled with the AEM kit.
Its absolutely perfect, great detonation prevention intake temps are nice are cooler as are EGT's
electronics are super easy.

what ever kit you get, make sure it has a check valve in the feed line. I have seen entire methanol reservoir's slowly empty out into a charge pipe when it sits.

[Imarvin240]

yeah, I bought the AEM kit, its a great product.

[BlackZenkiS14]

Devil's Own DVC-30 kit...what do you all think?

DVC-30 methanol Injection Kits : DevilsOwn water Injection (http://www.alcohol-injection.com/en/universal/305-dvc-30-stage-2a.html)

[JDM SPUG]

Aquamist is the best if you have the money to spend. then lebonte and then aem.

[BlackZenkiS14]

With the JWT ECU, you can actually have Clark program in a water map, and then run a a super simple water setup that is activated by the ECU.

What is Clark's e-mail address? I haven't heard back yet from JWT

[BlackZenkiS14]

Hey Cody, and any one else. Throw some pics of your kit installed up. Im trying to think of a clean way to do it.

Thinking about throwing the pump and tank in a stainless box, like battery box in the trunk, so its all right there, (next to the battery for easy wiring anyways), and just running a line to the engine.

But I'd like to see what everyone else has done, and how its organized.

[BlackZenkiS14]

Well, I bought a Snow Performance Stage-2 kit from a buddy. Going to get a Devil's Own nozzle for it, and a Devil's own anti-syphoning selenoid. Hope it have it all installed and going within a couple weeks.

Cody, have you ever used this controller?

http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/536533_10151535614735043_635255042_23843325_155727 7466_n.jpg

[Walperstyle]

^Going by his post, he is against external controllers.

aka, if you want to do Meth injection properly, get something that your stand alone can figure out.

[BlackZenkiS14]

Here is my kit now, Snow pump and controller, Devil's parts. Gonna use my Windshield washer tank for resevoir, just need to figure out how/where to mount the pump and controller to keep it below resevoir as needed.

http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/527304_10151567826125043_635255042_23953046_827515 330_n.jpg

[stamps31757]

i've ran water/meth before but never on a nissan. My subaru reacted very well to it.

[BlackZenkiS14]

I just installed my hodge-podge Devils Own/Snow Performance kit. Ended up being 165 in total cost done, and finished.

http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/527304_10151567826125043_635255042_23953046_827515 330_n.jpg

http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/581521_10151580451125043_635255042_24002964_196221 3800_n.jpg

http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/560366_10151581165025043_635255042_24005666_961344 462_n.jpg

http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/536130_10151584811915043_635255042_24017030_300576 43_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/s720x720/581401_10151599759110043_635255042_24034487_432718 228_n.jpg

http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/554282_10151617874760043_635255042_24045913_213612 0449_n.jpg

[Project S13]

Interesting. This is new to me.

Can somebody run me thru the basics of how it works. i will be doing my own research, so don't think i want to be spoon fed. D

[BlackZenkiS14]

It cools the intake considerably, provides a level of added safety against detonation, adds octane, and keeps it all cooler.

It has no negative side effects at all that I am aware of yet. And its cheap to use.

[DBAMF]

I hate how's there's barely any solid evidence about power gains with water meth. I think it's a great idea but everyone always just says it works.

Cody you should do two pulls at the same boost level on the dyno and see how much it really helps.

[cotbu]

BlackZenkiS14, your bastardized setup looks way better than some kits i've seen!
Is there anyway you can remove the cold pipe and get a spray video posted?

[BlackZenkiS14]

BlackZenkiS14, your bastardized setup looks way better than some kits i've seen!
Is there anyway you can remove the cold pipe and get a spray video posted?

Haha thanks man, I try to keep all my stuff looking clean and as oem as possible. It would be hard to get a video, because mine doesnt start spraying until 9 psi, and I can only achieve that by driving, so a video would be tough to do. And I really dont feel like unwiring it all and hard wiring the pump to spray aside from the controller. Sorry mate.

Althouh I would too be interested to see comparitive dyno vids as well. Cody, what afr is best/safest to run with the meth? I have the fuel pressure set so that my afr is between 11.2 and 11.6 on the jwt tune. What would be ideal to run, now that I have meth?

[ATLspeed]

A good 49/51 mixture:
3 - bottles of HEET
1 - jug of peak window washer fluid

*Pump is located on wheel well next to battery box

http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv94/Kidd_Nickles/2012-05-08_17-44-58_329.jpg

http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv94/Kidd_Nickles/2012-05-06_16-38-58_550.jpg

[bc.]

Sorry to bump. but are you guys monitoring the change in your A/F ratio after you installed the meth/water kit? I am curious to see how rich you may or may not be running.

I wasn't planning on tuning my set-up for power just worried about detonation on pump gas.

[Mikester]

Glad this thread got bumped- yet another thing I will be hitting Kyle up for sometime this year :)

[BlackZenkiS14]

I was tuned to 11.8afr, them added water meth and it bumped down to low 11's, so I just made a very slight adjustment in my fuel pressure to get it back to 11.7-12.0. Car has never felt better! Every turbo car needs this!!!

[bc.]

JWT will only tune an ecu for water/meth at their shop, so I am not gonna do that. They also mentioned that the AFR will get rich, obviously.

I was thinking about doing just water injection to lower the combustion chamber temps without messing with the AFR the JWT tune is gonna give me.

[BlackZenkiS14]

JWT will only tune an ecu for water/meth at their shop, so I am not gonna do that. They also mentioned that the AFR will get rich, obviously.

I was thinking about doing just water injection to lower the combustion chamber temps without messing with the AFR the JWT tune is gonna give me.

Brad, I have a JWT ECU and a separate meth water controller, seriously dude, just come over some night and I'll go through it all with you man. Sow you the whole setup and do take you for a spin.

You can easily run a pre tuned JWT ECU and a meth water setup. Even if you decide to just run water, you will still need a controller and pump and everything. You just run whatever you want. I personally run a 65% water 35% meth mixture with very little tuning needed to accommodate for it.

[bc.]

I will probably take you up on that offer, maybe in like 6 weeks after I have installed and broken in my new motor.

[BlackZenkiS14]

That's fine dude. But come out beforehand lol

[cgtdream]

I dont currently run any type on my 240 but i do have plans to run an AEM kit. Otherwise i have installed one on my GT4 with amazing results. It is an AEM kit. Not the best on the market but still a very simple and straightforward setup so i cant complain.

My mix for that car was 55%ish water and the rest smurf piss. Also i do not see any real benefit to "tuning" your car with water/meth injection on the majority of setups. If anything a low level warning indicator/pump fail indicator would be more than necessary if you did go that route.

[Playingwithboost]

Has anyone ran this setup on a rb25 id be interested in doing this with some more info

[BlackZenkiS14]

I haven't run it on an RB before, but it's pretty much the same application. Just do it, it's awesome. Coler intake temps, higher octane rating on pump gas, it's a win win

[locoluna825]

Subscribed. I to have been doing a ton of research on these kits and how they work.

After finding this site Do It Yourself Water Alcohol Methanol Injection (http://www.turbomirage.com/water.html)
Ive been planning on putting together my own simple kit. It would run me about about $200. Buying a meth injection pump, nozzle injector kit, using the windhshield washer resevoir and By using a pressure sensor on the intake manifold (after the throttle) that switches a relay at a set PSI.

But the more I read on these controllers and running the injection on the ecu... the more I am beginning to want to just go that route.

[Playingwithboost]

How do you tune for this though?

[aga]

i am gonna run an aquamist kit on my sr20, its simply the best, failsafe wise, tuning wise etc... you can run it even with a power fc, the failsafe just sends a signal to a relay, if you have an ecu that can switch maps you can use that, in my case (power fc) I'm just gonna connect the relay to the boost controller solenoid, so it will cut its power off , thus returning me to mechanical boost (where the map will be safe).

tuning for water meth = for starters, since water slows combustion down, you need to add 3-5 degrees of ignition advance in the area of the map where water will be used. AFR's should not be richer than 11.7:1 , more in the area of 12-12.5 (but these don't give much power, so i'd prefer 11.7) ... now adding more ignition advance is a strange issue, and you should tune it on a dyno, to see if you are actually making any more power by adding more advance, then reach the sweet point, and you re done.

[BlackZenkiS14]

Simply put, just keep it in the high 11s up to 12.0. Easy.

My car runs its ass off!

[EsChassisLove]

Have any of you guys gone this route for more tan just safety? IE-POWER.

I was about to spend 3k switching over to E85 using 2 maps and a flex fuel sensor just for more power then said fuck that. why spend triple for the same power and reliability?

Now my tuner, who used to work for AEM in designing their software and now tunes for Rhys Millen, Cosworth etc., is advising me against it and I don't see why. Considering thee is NO negative feedback on water/meth

Sick of just 310whp and 14psi cuz of this shit CA calls gas.

[BlackZenkiS14]

I haven't because I'm not interested in more power, I just want to keep my shit on the road lol.

But many, actually most, guys will run it so they can advance timing and increase boost levels and get more power out of it. It's pretty common, it's just in the hands of your tuner to monitor knock and watch temperatures and AFRs

[aga]

Now my tuner, who used to work for AEM in designing their software and now tunes for Rhys Millen, Cosworth etc., is advising me against it and I don't see why. Considering thee is NO negative feedback on water/meth


maybe he is advising you against it because its a street car. i ve had a car that was more track oriented than street, and it eventually got tiring. maybe that's the case, more things to go wrong, an extra bottle to monitor and fill up, and its not like you can pull up to a gas station and fill it with methanol, you will have to carry a mix with you etc...true, its not that you fill the tank regularely, i believe once every two weeks... i am interested too cause i am seriously thinking about getting an aquamist.

[BlackZenkiS14]

It depends on how hard you drive. I go through 2 gallons almost over a 2 day track weekend.

But if I only drive the car twice a week, and spirited driving only, it'll last a few weeks.

But if you want to just run for safety, you can run windshield washer fluid and maybe add a bottle of heet. Which is usually all available at gas stations.

[aga]

i've registered for an AEM seminar on water meth injection in 1 month from now. there's gonna be theory and practice, installation and dyno ... i'm so excited. i've got one AEM water meth kit that i can install in my car (its a friend's) but i'd prefer to go aquamist in the future. i'll keep you guys posted for results (or blown engines)