General Aviation Discussion, including Flying and Private Pilot License info

[BustedS13]

thinking about flight training. anybody on Zilvia a pilot, private or commercial? it sounds _awesome_, and i'm attempting to become an air traffic controller, so it couldn't hurt my chances there either. just wondering about costs, timeframe, and stuff like that. best i can gather at 1:30am on the internet is it'd cost me about $50 an hour and i need to rack up 40 hours of flight time, at my own pace apparently.

[I LUV MY S13]

damn thats alot of dough, im planning on being a heli pilot for the army...with my test scores its possible, just gotta check the pay rate

[D.Adams]

My old boss put his 16 year old daughter through flight school so she can fly him around. Took about 8 months 2 days a week $50 an hour 2-3 hours a day and the use of there own plane to get her pilot's license. If you dont have the use of a plane the cost goes up dramatically think it was $100 to $150 a hour last time i checked.

Takes a long time and alot of patience. Think they ask for 30 to 40 hours of flight time and for you to pass a FAA Aeromedical physical examination.

[BustedS13]

oh, wow, this costs a lot more than i thought. this is all coming together now.

[shiftdrift]

join the air force, isn't that like free training? it'd be cool too.

[mrchomponthis]

Orange Coast College has a program take a look Orange Coast College - Welcome to Aviation Pilot Training (http://www.orangecoastcollege.edu/academics/divisions/technology/aviation_pilot_training/)

[godrifttoday]

my pops has a cessna 172, flying is like a drug once u do it once, u cant stop lol... u need 40 hrs, in ur case renting the plane is the expensive part, even after u get ur licence unless u buy a plane. but the reward is nice.. especially when u take girls on dates with it.... olive garden has nothing on that! lol

[TheWolf]

Print yourself a fake license from norway and get hired on an italian airline.

[BustedS13]

Print yourself a fake license from norway and get hired on an italian airline.

nah that's played out now.

going on a "discovery flight" in two weeks, WHEEEEE

[Mr. H]

last time i looked when all is said and done it can cost from 5-10k depending on where you go.

[S14DB]

nah that's played out now.

going on a "discovery flight" in two weeks, WHEEEEE

Yeah, discovery flight is the first step. Get a Log Book as you can log that half hour because you will be pilot in command.

It's also a good way to see if you like a flight school and/or instructor.


The basic steps are here:
EAA - EAA Learn to Fly (http://www.eaa.org/learntofly/private/qualifications.asp)

You get a Medical Cert from a GP doctor with FAA cert. This is basically your student pilot license.

Then you can ether take ground school at a school or learn at home out of a book or online. Then take the written test.

Then you start flight training.

I like this guys books and comedy.
Rod Machado's Private Pilot Handbook (http://www.rodmachado.com/_available_products/private_pilot_handbook.php)

Why learn to fly (http://www.rodmachado.com/_become_private_pilot/why_learn_to_fly.php) (video)
What's Required (http://www.rodmachado.com/_become_private_pilot/whats_required.php)
9 First Steps (http://www.rodmachado.com/_become_private_pilot/nine_first_steps.php)
Knowledge Exam (http://www.rodmachado.com/_become_private_pilot/knowledge_exam.php)

AOPA's Resources: Let's Go Flying! (http://www.aopa.org/letsgoflying/)
Has links to schools and ME's around you.

[!Zar!]

I think I heard something about air traffic controllers having high turnover rates. Or high stress? Something like that.

[Marcus]

i got my private a couple years go. your pace will dictate how much you spend.
BOOKS, instructor time(by the hr), plane rental (by the hr) + gas.

i pushed through rather quickly, (i solo'd in 12 hrs) and still spent around 8grand. and this is just for a private pilots license. which is pretty much only good for bringin chicks on super cool dates.

then there's IFR, multi engine, high performance, ..... .... all kinds of ratings that require 40+hrs at 100bucks/hr. you do the math haha. its fucking expensive.

id recommend joining the military. they will put you through the program. (as an officer of course) from a civilian's pov, thats better.



OH and you need to pass a physical.

[Teddy]

So lately I've been looking at going to a flight school in the Los Angeles to obtain a private pilot's license. I've always wanted to fly and I figure while I'm making a little bit of cash at work and have some free time I might as well start looking for a good program that doesn't cost an arm and a leg.

Does anyone here fly?

I was looking at a school based out of Torrance Airport (5 minutes from my house) and for a non-accelerated program it's about $12,500 with a few extra added costs. Long Beach Flying club offers a private pilot license for about $5,000 and includes like 35 hours of flight training... Is that enough? I don't want to find myself in a hairy situation in the future and regret not spending more time with an instructor...

Does anyone have any advice about what and what not to do for training etc etc? Any advice is appreciated. Is a private pilot license a good idea? Maybe getting a Sport Pilot License has more advantage/easier? Eventually I'd like to fly big planes, but that won't be for a long time probably. Is there a certain route I should take for that?

Thanks!

[MisawaJason]

one of my good friends goes to Santa Barbara and goes flying all the time.

It's pretty expensive, but damn, 12,500 seems way the fuck up there.

If you want to fly bigger planes, you'd have to go the Emery Riddle route probably. For commercial aircraft it'll cost big time as you need all the different ratings: Instrument, multi engine, passanger, etc.

I can ask my friend for some information for you brother

[theronin]

So lately I've been looking at going to a flight school in the Los Angeles to obtain a private pilot's license. ... Is that enough? I don't want to find myself in a hairy situation in the future and regret not spending more time with an instructor...


how much is your life worth to you?

[karl wasabi]

My childhood friend and neighbor used to be a pilot. He took my flying before. Then his plane crashed into a building in New York with some baseball player. =(

[90hatchie]

teddy go on my facebook and find my brother
jared hansen
hes currently in flight school getting his commercial liscense
anything you need to know he will be able to tell you

[Felipe]

My childhood friend and neighbor used to be a pilot. He took my flying before. Then his plane crashed into a building in New York with some baseball player. =(


:bite: thats a dream killer lol

while your at it look in to flying helicopters also. its like saying your bilingual lol :ddog:

[WanganRunner]

My childhood friend and neighbor used to be a pilot. He took my flying before. Then his plane crashed into a building in New York with some baseball player. =(


Holy shit, I remember this. It was terrible.

Lidle dies after plane crashes into NYC high-rise - MLB - ESPN (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2621860)


Morbid anecdotes aside, I'm thinking of getting a private pilot's license next year also, once my MBA is done and I have the time.

Around here it's about $7-9k to get all the flight hours, and then you double that if you want to be instrument rated.

[Teddy]

If you want to fly bigger planes, you'd have to go the Emery Riddle route probably. For commercial aircraft it'll cost big time as you need all the different ratings: Instrument, multi engine, passanger, etc.

I don't want a commercial license because I don't want to make a career out of this. Just for fun. Although I definitely want to fly multi-engine planes so I guess I'll need those anyway? Sorry I really don't know too much, hence why I posted this. lol.

Around here it's about $7-9k to get all the flight hours, and then you double that if you want to be instrument rated.

Okay, so you can get your private, then you build off of that with more course to get instrument rating etc?

What kinda of planes can you fly with only your private license? Small Cessnas and stuff?

[godrifttoday]

I fly. My father has a cessna 172. He been a pilot for over 14 years and own his plane for about that much. My father started to take flying lessons out of Torrance. To only drop it. He later took classes with a guy in apple valley, which he really really liked. The teacher was very hands on. And in apple valley airport u get alot of crosswinds and usually windy do to some mountains being by the airport, which makes for great practicing. since we generally have less winds here by Torrance ,When one actually encounters turbulence say by el cajon pass. People start to freak out. Lol since its something they dont experience often. If I'm not mistaken I believe u need 40Hrs of flying, to get a private license. Renting a plane will be the expensive part. I think they go for 150 hr or so. I believe the guy still might teach in apple valley. one experience my father had with that guy was that he taped up a pensil to the controls and my father had to control the plane from then pencils without breaking lol. Pretty cool if u ask me. I'll post a video of us taking a friend flying. My dad plane I's parked in bracket field, ( Pomona fair flex). Flying I's So freaking cool though!!! The feeling u get I's surreal, and when u land the plane for the very first time... Well its very rewarding.

I'm in the back seat filming

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_aM4dkZdpiU&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[WanganRunner]

Okay, so you can get your private, then you build off of that with more course to get instrument rating etc?

What kinda of planes can you fly with only your private license? Small Cessnas and stuff?

Yeah, as I understand it you get your private first and then pursue additional certifications.

Instrument requires periodic re-certification though, certain number of hours per year. You need to be instrument-rated to fly at night or in inclement weather, I believe.

AFAIK, private pilot is just single-engine, daylight only.


I could be way off base on all of this, just going with what's on the top of my head.

[Teddy]

how much is your life worth to you?

The question was more like, does 35 hours prepare you well?

I fly. My father has a cessna 172. He been a pilot for over 14 years and own his plane for about that much. My father started to take flying lessons out of Torrance. To only drop it. He later took classes with a guy in apple valley, which he really really liked. The teacher was very hands on. And in apple valley airport u get alot of crosswinds and usually windy do to some mountains being by the airport, which makes for great practicing. since we generally have less winds here by Torrance ,When one actually encounters turbulence say by el cajon pass. People start to freak out. Lol since its something they dont experience often. If I'm not mistaken I believe u need 40Hrs of flying, to get a private license. Renting a plane will be the expensive part. I think they go for 150 hr or so. I believe the guy still might teach in apple valley. one experience my father had with that guy was that he taped up a pensil to the controls and my father had to control the plane from then pencils without breaking lol. Pretty cool if u ask me. I'll post a video of us taking a friend flying. My dad plane I's parked in bracket field, ( Pomona fair flex). Flying I's So freaking cool though!!! The feeling u get I's surreal, and when u land the plane for the very first time... Well its very rewarding.

I'm in the back seat filming

YouTube - Cesna 172 landing bracket field (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_aM4dkZdpiU&feature=youtube_gdata_player)

Nice landing!

And yeah the weather is usually pretty calm here in Torrance and I wouldn't mind really getting to practice crosswind take-offs/flying/landings. That will surely come in handy someday.

v=5X_7Xt2ga-s

Yeah, as I understand it you get your private first and then pursue additional certifications.

Instrument requires periodic re-certification though, certain number of hours per year. You need to be instrument-rated to fly at night or in inclement weather, I believe.

AFAIK, private pilot is just single-engine, daylight only.


I could be way off base on all of this, just going with what's on the top of my head.

Ah interesting. Well you gotta start somewhere.

[karl wasabi]

Holy shit, I remember this. It was terrible.

Lidle dies after plane crashes into NYC high-rise - MLB - ESPN (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2621860)

Yuup, that's the one. =(


And Teddy, you always have these crazy ideas, but I know you aren't down. lol

[MisawaJason]

AFAIK, private pilot is just single-engine, daylight only.


I could be way off base on all of this, just going with what's on the top of my head.
That's correct

[WanganRunner]

You can rent planes w/fuel for around 120/hr here, or something like that.

This seems pretty reasonable for me. I could go fly for 2-3 hours for the same or less than what I'd spend at a track day for 2-3 hours, when you factor in tires and fees, etc.

I THINK that for just private pilot, you don't need to re-cert.

[Teddy]

And Teddy, you always have these crazy ideas, but I know you aren't down. lol

Karl, this has been one of my childhood dreams.... I've always wanted to fly a plane and flight simulator has almost been like an obsession.

The only reason I bring it up now is because I had a customer leave a Flying Magazine behind at my work and I read it and thought, "Shit, I've always wanted to do it, why not do it now?"

We kinda sorta had a similar conversation with Chuck about the whole now vs. later thing, remember?

You can rent planes w/fuel for around 120/hr here, or something like that.

That's total hours the plane is gone, right? Not just flying hours? So if I took a day trip to San Diego with an estimated 1.5 hours of flying, but stayed in San Diego all day, they would charge me the full day?

Kind of a dumb question but I just wanted to make sure.

[MisawaJason]

Yeah, you cant just fly the plane to Virginia to visit friends for two weeks and only pay for 14 hours worth of actual flying time

[usdm180sx]

My partner at one of my jobs has his pilot's license. We went up in New Jersey and there were thunderstorms and it was really windy. The winds blew the plane around like an empty soda can that shit was scary as hell. I was watching him work the controls and he was sweating profusely trying to control the plane. He also told me that he had a 48oz steak for dinner the night before. All I could think of was that if he had a heart attack we'd both be dead. NEVER doing that again haha

[Teddy]

I wanna fly this:

Douglas DC-3 / C-47

http://www.stinsonflyer.com/prop/dc3a-1.jpg

http://www.richard-seaman.com/Aircraft/AirShows/Midland/2008/Highlights/C47Midland08.jpg

[mendozasport]

i saw one at a small airport, guy was restoring one and had a stroke , his wife was selling it for 6000 , this is in texas , around Bryan Texas , about a year ago , and just like you it has been a childhood dream , all my uncles fly, friend fathers fly..... its to expensive here in the U.S.
i was looking into argentina privatly(that where im from) and costa rica ..... at the exchange school is 5g's with aprox 75 hours in both countries and the women are hotter and skinier

[Teddy]

Uhh $6,000? Are you sure that isn't more like $60,000 or $600,000?

These planes go from $150k and up.

[mendozasport]

yeah it was 6 grand
when we got there with my boss it was sold already, she really didnt know what it was , it wasnt perfect, motors werent atached and m.i.a.
some guys from north dakota bought it and they where going to finish it like the old man wanted , ...... they knew each other from a forum/club/swinger whatevere
but yeah ..... they are gorgeos airplanes , elegant but rough in a way

[theicecreamdan]

how much does a decent used plane go for?

[omgRWDgoodness!]

I wanna fly this:

Douglas DC-3 / C-47

(picture)
(picture)


You wanna drop paratroopers or something? :)

[S14DB]

I would go with a Private and then get Instrument. Get some hours then go for your multi-engine and performance.

Sport is only worth if you are buying/building a Light-Sport. You aren't going to find many if any places renting them.

For Private you are going to get your medical cert. This is your "student license" as it's all you need to fly as a student.
-Then take the ground school. I would do ground and flight training separately. Any hole in the wall can do ground school. You can do it yourself and only pay for the test. But, I would pay for class as you will need explanation/confirmation of what you are reading.
-After you pass ground it's time for you to shop around for a flight instructor. At least take an "Intro" flight(30mins) with them. Sure it will cost some cash but, it's better than paying in full then hating the asshole flying with you for the next 40 hours.


I am a big fan of this guy and would buy his book and follow his advice.
Why Learn To Fly (http://www.rodmachado.com/_become_private_pilot/why_learn_to_fly.php)
What Does It Take for You to Become a Private Pilot? (http://www.rodmachado.com/_become_private_pilot/whats_required.php)
9 First Steps (http://www.rodmachado.com/_become_private_pilot/nine_first_steps.php)
Pass The Knowledge Exam (http://www.rodmachado.com/_become_private_pilot/knowledge_exam.php)
Why Sport vs. Private Pilot? (http://www.rodmachado.com/become_sport_pilot/why_sport_vs_private_pilot.php)
Advanced Pilot Ratings (http://www.rodmachado.com/adv_ratings/adv_ratings.php)

Rod Machado’s Private Pilot Handbook-Second Edition (http://www.rodmachado.com/_available_products/private_pilot_handbook.php)
-You can find it cheaper on Amazon and what not. Even if your ground school provides books and materials. His guide is humorous and laid out well. Much easier to understand then most of the Dry, Technical flying books out there.

The FAA's "guide": Become a Pilot (http://www.faa.gov/pilots/become/)

how much does a decent used plane go for?

http://www.trade-a-plane.com/

[Teddy]

Wow excellent advice, thanks so much! I'll have to check out all of those links.

The more I read up and watch onboard videos on Youtube, the more I want to really put more money away and start this. I have a little put aside already, maybe I can start ground training soon.

[WanganRunner]

This is more informative than 90% of the tech threads on Zilvia.


$6k seems cheap, but battered bare airframes can go for peanuts.

As for used planes, I've seen a lot of Cubs for $25-50k. Always wanted one.

[h2v7]

http://a1.l3-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/74/701f1e3ea00b4cc5f1d9049b0adb7569/l.jpg
http://a1.l3-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/104/5feb2b324fb1ba3215bc24ad5dc3c158/l.jpg

[pacotaco345]

Though the military (Air Force) is the cheapest option, it is BY FAR not the easiest. Now before everyone in this thread flames me for being a 17 year old, I'm a 17 year old who has always wanted to be a pilot. Currently I am about to start college with an AFROTC scholarship, and even with that I am still not guaranteed a pilot slot if/when I graduate. There are numerous tests/classes/examinations both physical and mental that are not required in the civilian field. I can personally say that I had to jump through TONS of hoops just to get this opportunity. Hopefully in 4 years I'll have a pilot slot and be in flight school but I'll have to wait to figure that out.

[LimeLite Racing]

My tattoo artist is a private pilot. He says he loved every bit of training and every penny was worth it. He does it for hobby, not for profession; although the more he flies, the more he wants to do it for a living. He's almost convinced me to give it a shot.

[word sux]

commercial pilots don't make shit


allot of them are on welfare


think I am joking?

[Teddy]

http://zilvia.net/f/off-topic-chat/374396-flying-private-pilot-license.html

Lol.

I was about to buy Rod Machado's book but before I could a super awesome customer of mine bought me the FAA Pilot's Handbook and the FAA Airplane Flying Handbook. I'm about a third of the way done with the Pilot's Handbook.


My goal is to finish reading both before I even do the discovery flight so it's kiiinda like I already did a part of my ground school. I've been reading every day! It's so interesting!

Plus, reading ahead should help cut costs down significantly since I will already have a pretty good idea of the material we'll be going over in ground school.

Does anybody still watch the King Schools videos? It's hard to find a used set, and they're pretty expensive new.


Another way to cut costs down is to have all of the money for training ready so you can afford to take 3 or 4 lessons per week. That way you can stay closer to the 40 hours because you won't have to spend time "re-learning" the material. They say average time is 70 hours, which is almost double in cost.

[Teddy]

P.S. I think we should have a General Aviation thread :P

[towlie]

Commercial airline pilot is a career I've waned since a young age

I can barely afford community college though, let alone flight school :((

Air force isnt an option and I'm probably not cut out for the coast guard (will look into it however)

Am I screwed?

[bb4_96]

I knew two people that got their pilots license in illinois. One went through U of I and it cost him like 100k for everything, however he actually has a degree in aviation. The other friend flew at a small local airport and I think he paid $50/hr +fuel. it was the instructor's plane so the $50 was all inclusive. Shop around, other than fuel the fees seem to vary by instructor.

[S14DB]

commercial pilots don't make shit


allot of them are on welfare


think I am joking?
We talking Airliners or Small operations?
http://zilvia.net/f/off-topic-chat/374396-flying-private-pilot-license.html

Lol.

I was about to buy Rod Machado's book but before I could a super awesome customer of mine bought me the FAA Pilot's Handbook and the FAA Airplane Flying Handbook. I'm about a third of the way done with the Pilot's Handbook.


My goal is to finish reading both before I even do the discovery flight so it's kiiinda like I already did a part of my ground school. I've been reading every day! It's so interesting!

Plus, reading ahead should help cut costs down significantly since I will already have a pretty good idea of the material we'll be going over in ground school.

Does anybody still watch the King Schools videos? It's hard to find a used set, and they're pretty expensive new.


Another way to cut costs down is to have all of the money for training ready so you can afford to take 3 or 4 lessons per week. That way you can stay closer to the 40 hours because you won't have to spend time "re-learning" the material. They say average time is 70 hours, which is almost double in cost.
Yeah I definitely would save the money for Flight Training. It is too easy to get in a bind one month and stop and forget a lot. I would open a savings account just for it.

King School videos are good if you are a visual learner(TV generation). Their software and books are top notch too. What a lot of pilots like them for is their refresher and specialty subjects. There is a lot of little things that are skimmed over in learning to fly and sometimes if you need more info on the subject or are doing a lot of that type of flying they are good for tips and tricks.
You can sometimes find them at the Library(Local Government or College) or if there is any Flying clubs or schools around you they may have them for loan/rent. Clubs are something you may want to look into as they usually get discounts which will add up in flight training.
They have free videos and trailers on YouTube if you want to see if they are worth your time.
‪kingschoolsvideos's Channel‬‏ - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/user/kingschoolsvideos)

It's sort of like driving. Sure you get your permit and license and can drive a car. But, there is a lot more that isn't covered/required. There are multiple ways to do things and there are specialties. The more info you can process the better off you will be(safer and relaxed).
P.S. I think we should have a General Aviation thread :P
Merged and Retitled.

[Brian]

Teddy, my grandpa jumped into France from a C-47.

[Teddy]

Teddy, my grandpa jumped into France from a C-47.

Oh COOL. Do you know where at? My neighbor across the street (who has now passed) also jumped from a C-47 into France. Very neat.

[Brian]

Well, he was in France, Germany, and Belgium.
Battle of the bulge

http://www.517prct.org/photos/john_harte/Germany%20mostly%20Berlin/C47%27s.jpg
http://www.517prct.org/photos/john_harte/Training/1_,_,_,_,_%20John%20Harte,%20_,%20Joe%20Sanford,Al fred%20Bucher%20-%20C47.jpg
he is on the bottom left.

[WanganRunner]

I thought this was interesting.

bEYEcVQklvY


I love radial engined aircraft. If I could own anything it would probably be a Grumman Goose.

[XeroX]

I have been thinking about doing this as well (for YEARS). Executive Airport here in Sacramento has some pretty good rates IMO.


Club membership including first month's dues $50.00
35 hours Cessna 172 @ $114/ hr $3990.00
20 hours flight instruction with a CFI @ $35/hr$700.00
15 hours preflight/post-flight briefing w/ CFI @ $35/hr$525.00
Cessna Pilot Center Private Pilot Multi-media kit $322.00

Total Price$5,587.00

PLEASE NOTE:

This program is based on the legal minimum time for the private pilot course. Most students require more than this minimum to complete the courses. In the past, the average English speaking student has taken 50-60 hours to complete the course for an average cost of about $7612-$8927. The average time for a limited-English speaking student has been 70 hours. April 15, 2011.

From the looks of this you only need 35 hours of seat time (minimum). But i guess you gota be pretty good (as the disclaimer states) to only have to stick with the minimum 35 hours.

[S14DB]

I love radial engined aircraft. If I could own anything it would probably be a Grumman Goose.
I always wanted one as a kid too(Damn Tailspin). Then the Chalk Airlines crash happened and I learned that a 50yr old plane is like a 50yr old boat on the water. They corrode like crazy. Luckily a new company is going to start making them.
http://www.antillesseaplanes.com/gallery/large/11.jpg

I have been thinking about doing this as well (for YEARS). Executive Airport here in Sacramento has some pretty good rates IMO.



From the looks of this you only need 35 hours of seat time (minimum). But i guess you gota be pretty good (as the disclaimer states) to only have to stick with the minimum 35 hours.

That looks to be the Cessna program. http://www.cessna.com/learn-to-fly.html

[WanganRunner]

I will admit that Tailspin also plays some role in why I want one, lol.

That white Goose looks completely wrong with turboprops, btw. Otherwise great, never seen a white one.

I adore flying boats, as much like biplanes, autogyros, and rigid airships, they seem even cooler because they have, for all intents and purposes, dropped entirely out of popular use.

[omgRWDgoodness!]

Teddy, my grandpa jumped into France from a C-47.

Oh COOL. Do you know where at? My neighbor across the street (who has now passed) also jumped from a C-47 into France. Very neat.

Well, he was in France, Germany, and Belgium.
Battle of the bulge

[awesome picture]
[other even more awesome picture]
he is on the bottom left.


I adore flying boats, as much like biplanes, autogyros, and rigid airships, they seem even cooler because they have, for all intents and purposes, dropped entirely out of popular use.

Omg sorry but I'm having a WWII history nerd attack! Cool and incredibly neat indeed. Would you guys happen to know what outfits they were in or anything like that? Those PBY Catalina flying boats were also used to pluck our downed airmen from the ocean at places like Midway, among many other duties. Man I can go on all day, WWII is absolutely fascinating.

Funny thing is I jokingly posted about Teddy wanting to drop paratroopers farther up the page.

[Brian]

460th Paratrooper Field Artillery Batallion
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/63/460_logo.gif

[WanganRunner]

Apparently Antilles *will* build one with Radials if you so desire.

Jimmy Buffet requested one.

[junn]

As a airplane mechanic I suggests you go into maintenance

U make good money and later on you have better chances of being a pilot

[TheWolf]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/52/Cessna_650_Citation_VII.jpg

So how many hours before you can fly one of these?

[S14DB]

Private Pilot
Then, Instrument, Multi-Engine
Check ride in a Cessna Jet.

That's minimum. Good luck getting insurance to fly one. That is the big hang up in flying the big stuff. Just like it's hard for a 16yr old to get insurance on a Ferrari. Insurance company's are scared of "unproven" pilots.

Commercial, Multi-engine Commercial, will improve your odds. Instructor even more. But, hours are the most important.

[Teddy]

Well, he was in France, Germany, and Belgium.
Battle of the bulge

My grandfather joined with Patton's army and they were on the ground to receive all of the paratroopers at Sainte-Mère-Église. Maybe our grandfathers were together at one point. How crazy is that?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/52/Cessna_650_Citation_VII.jpg

So how many hours before you can fly one of these?

Pretty sure it's more about ratings (which translates into a lot of hours). You would need Private Pilot, Multi Engine, Jet, and a special Type Rating (allows you to fly that specific plane) I think? Correct me if I'm wrong please.

[Matej]

Alaska is a great state for anyone who wants to pilot/own a plane. Every fourth resident flies, and one can find used planes for considerably cheaper there.


There are a few Commanders I always see parked at the local airport, I really like these things.
http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/middle/2/2/9/1020922.jpg

[TheWolf]

Good luck getting insurance to fly one.


Do you have to carry insurance like on a car if the jet/plane is your own outright?

I guess you'd need to just incase of like a gear failure or someone clipped you in taxi. I imagine anything beyond that you might just be saving your family funeral costs.

[Teddy]

Private Pilot
Then, Instrument

You can't fly these VFR? Is it because of the instruments in the jets? Either way it's logical for someone who flies these to be instrument rated.

[S14DB]

Do you have to carry insurance like on a car if the jet/plane is your own outright?

I guess you'd need to just incase of like a gear failure or someone clipped you in taxi. I imagine anything beyond that you might just be saving your family funeral costs.

Yeah and it's a good idea to have Renters too. Cause Wrecking a rental car is a bitch enough, Plane your ass is getting sued.
You can't fly these VFR? Is it because of the instruments in the jets? Either way it's logical for someone who flies these to be instrument rated.
Sure below 18,5 and it great weather. So, 90% of the time, no.

[TheWolf]

Yeah and it's a good idea to have Renters too. Cause Wrecking a rental car is a bitch enough, Plane your ass is getting sued.

Sure below 18,5 and it great weather. So, 90% of the time, no.

Since you seem knowledgable in aviation. Why is it you can purchase one of those big honking commanders for like 700k but can pick up a citation jet for about 300k more and it does 2x what the commander does. If you wanted to take your family of 5, pick up and go 700+ miles. Seems like it would be worth it to pick up the citation. Almost double the capacity, double the payload, double the range and double the speed. do they get terrible mileage or use some kinda gas that's 3x normal price? seems like a no brainer to spend the extra and get the bigger bird.

[Teddy]

Sure below 18,5 and it great weather. So, 90% of the time, no.

Oh true, I forgot about altitude. Thanks for the input!

[S14DB]

Since you seem knowledgable in aviation. Why is it you can purchase one of those big honking commanders for like 700k but can pick up a citation jet for about 300k more and it does 2x what the commander does.I'll disagree with you on that. The Commanders hold their value for a reason. They are a more general purpose aircraft then the lawn dart of a bizjet. A $1m Citation is like a 1989 $100 240sx.
tOZEgKXJMCE
If you wanted to take your family of 5, pick up and go 700+ miles. Seems like it would be worth it to pick up the citation. Almost double the capacity, double the payload, double the range and double the speed. do they get terrible mileage or use some kinda gas that's 3x normal price? seems like a no brainer to spend the extra and get the bigger bird.
And 3x the GPH. JET-A is expensive.
Operating Costs for COMMANDER 500 Per Hour (http://www.what2fly.com/operating_cost/commander/500.php)
Operating Costs for COMMANDER 1000 JETPROP Per Hour (http://www.what2fly.com/operating_cost/commander/1000_jetprop.php)
Operating Costs for CESSNA CITATION CJ1 Per Hour (http://www.what2fly.com/operating_cost/cessna/citation_cj1.php)
Operating Costs for CESSNA CITATION X Per Hour (http://www.what2fly.com/operating_cost/cessna/citation_x.php)

I dispute your facts as there are a lot of different Citation and Commander models. An old Citation 1 is going to be cheap but no room. Same with a Commander 500. Citation X is going to be fast but cost you $22m. Jet Prop Commander is going to give you great range at way less cost pert hour.

COMMANDER 500 Performance and Operating Costs What2fly.com (http://www.what2fly.com/manufacturer/commander/500.php)
COMMANDER 1000 JETPROP Performance and Operating Costs What2fly.com (http://www.what2fly.com/manufacturer/commander/1000_jetprop.php)
CESSNA CITATION CJ1 Performance and Operating Costs What2fly.com (http://www.what2fly.com/manufacturer/cessna/citation_cj1.php)
CESSNA CITATION X Performance and Operating Costs What2fly.com (http://www.what2fly.com/manufacturer/cessna/citation_x.php)

Do you want to take long trips in a car that gets 15mpg or 50mpg? There is a reason for all the small flights the airlines try to use the Turbo-Props as much as they can.

[WanganRunner]

Do you have to carry insurance like on a car if the jet/plane is your own outright?

I guess you'd need to just incase of like a gear failure or someone clipped you in taxi. I imagine anything beyond that you might just be saving your family funeral costs.

Aaaaaand what if you crash into a daycare center or something? AFAIK, you primarily carry aircraft insurance to cover the damage your aircraft could do to others, not because it might get keyed in the hangar.

[S14DB]

Found this interesting. HKS (http://www.hks-power.co.jp/hks_aviation/)

[heavenboundkevin]

http://i53.tinypic.com/4sle9e.jpg

ive got 320 hrs in an SH60B. When you fly you see some cool stuff. Whales, sharks, oil rigs on fire, 360 double rainbows, shooting stars that light up the entire sky.

worth it.

[ESmorz]

I took my first class the other day. Flying was pretty crazy at first, and then pretty normal feeling. It was definitely a life experience though.

[Teddy]

Found this interesting. HKS (http://www.hks-power.co.jp/hks_aviation/)

That is gangster.

[Teddy]

After talking with a number of different pilots, it seems that the smart and logical path to take in learning to fly (long term) is to start off with gliders. They say glider pilots have a better feel for air currents and weather and have a general better feel of the aircraft. So I've decided I'm going to start off with that license before I pursue my private pilot.

[omgRWDgoodness!]

Found this interesting. HKS (http://www.hks-power.co.jp/hks_aviation/)

Wonder if it fits in an S-Chassis...

[S14DB]

After talking with a number of different pilots, it seems that the smart and logical path to take in learning to fly (long term) is to start off with gliders. They say glider pilots have a better feel for air currents and weather and have a general better feel of the aircraft. So I've decided I'm going to start off with that license before I pursue my private pilot.

It depends on how much cash you want to blow. If you just want to fly around once and awhile in power planes then you should get the Private first and then take some glider lessons to supplement what you know. If you think you are going to do gliders AND power planes in your future, then get the private/power first and then add on the glider rating second. Much cheaper and faster in the process.

[Teddy]

From what I was told, it was good to do the glider license first to have the good habits you develop from learning to really fly?

The way I see it is, I want to make flying a life-long hobby. Since it's so long term, I'm not in a mega hurry and I kinda want to prepare myself the "right" way I guess you could say.

Maybe its the paranoia that builds up from reading the crash articles in Flying Magazine, but it sounds like some pilots aren't well enough prepared for some of the situations they come across and I just want to be sure I trust myself enough to fly myself and others around on trips safely.

So to me, getting the glider rating could be considered an investment. Plus since I would already be comfortable maneuvering an aircraft, wouldn't it facilitate my Private lessons thus maybe save time/money for that rating too?

Please correct me if I'm wrong on any of this, obviously it's all new to me and I'm just trying to learn and do what's best. Thanks!

[Marcus]

im glad this thread is here. i need to have my biannual flight review done.

this hobby is very expensive to sustain. then if you dont fly, you lose your currency. then it costs more to retrain and get current again. 35Hours should be fine depending on how fast you push through the program. (for private pilots anyway). Then for instrument rating will be another 35-40hours. (which i didnt do due to financial restrictions)

I know nothing about gliders or the cost of that rating, but flying a cessna is easy as cake and does not take long to become proficient. Im not sure that getting that rating first would help much if your short term goal is to get a private pilots license first anyway. I jumped right into it and pushed through as fast and efficiently as possible to save money.

i think your confidence will build very fast. you will have at least 12 hours of instructed flight time before a solo flight. and you need to absolutely trust yourself for that. then there's the solo cross country flights. those trips should give you the confidence to bring people around. at least they did for me.

keep in mind that there are lots of rules and procedures to follow for flights. you are constantly talking to towers telling you everything. Especially in the LA area. so busy there.

[S14DB]

From what I was told, it was good to do the glider license first to have the good habits you develop from learning to really fly?

The way I see it is, I want to make flying a life-long hobby. Since it's so long term, I'm not in a mega hurry and I kinda want to prepare myself the "right" way I guess you could say.

Maybe its the paranoia that builds up from reading the crash articles in Flying Magazine, but it sounds like some pilots aren't well enough prepared for some of the situations they come across and I just want to be sure I trust myself enough to fly myself and others around on trips safely.

So to me, getting the glider rating could be considered an investment. Plus since I would already be comfortable maneuvering an aircraft, wouldn't it facilitate my Private lessons thus maybe save time/money for that rating too?

Please correct me if I'm wrong on any of this, obviously it's all new to me and I'm just trying to learn and do what's best. Thanks!

If you were 15-16 yes. It's going to take a lot more time and money to do glider then private. You are going to pay to take the same lessons twice.

Get Private then add on Glider. Then fly whatever you want to get more comfortable. It's just like getting your drivers license. After you got it there is still a lot to learn from experience.

[Teddy]

This new Honda Jet is pretty sweet. It looks like a car.

My dad supplied some of the hydraulic parts for the rudder on the prototype. Not sure exactly what though.

http://stwot.motortrend.com/files/2012/05/HondaJet-F3-takes-first-flight-623x389.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-k7vx06hC62M/TyggZyxxETI/AAAAAAAAEic/uChwIcL7QwU/s1600/HondaJet+Cockpit.jpg

http://cdn.sparkart.net/janetjackson/images/content/lifestyle-lists/img-tech-hondajet.jpg

http://www.instablogsimages.com/images/2010/12/24/honda-jet_9_52.jpg

[S14DB]

Seen that thing for years at OSH. Always on static display. Wonder if they will deliver this year...

Honda HA-420 HondaJet - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_HA-420_HondaJet)

[Brian]

France 1944
http://www.517prct.org/photos/john_harte/France/C47%201944.jpg

[Teddy]

Oh I hadn't seen that one.

[Brian]

gassin up

http://i799.photobucket.com/albums/yy277/travisham135/IMG_0634.jpg

http://i799.photobucket.com/albums/yy277/travisham135/IMG_0652.jpg

http://i799.photobucket.com/albums/yy277/travisham135/f-22.jpg

[TheWolf]

got any high res of that b2 gassing up? would make a bitching background.

[Teddy]

Who's this guy?

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg263/S13Teddy/Random/5d917c2d.jpg

Got to learn about the DC-3 from this very friendly crew based out of Riverside with a restored 30s airliner. He showed us how to start the plane and explained the whole cockpit mechanically etc. Really cool crew. It was amazing to sit in the left seat of my favorite plane.

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg263/S13Teddy/Random/e769fe9f.jpg

[Brian]

I don't have any better pics of that B2. That one is pretty sweet. Found them from a boomer that posted some stuff.

don't think detailed pics of the b2 topside are very common at all.

Also, Gray F117 is pretty scarce.

[yokotas13]

robert kawasaki that is on here is a boomer. dunno what his Sn is though

[TheWolf]

I don't have any better pics of that B2. That one is pretty sweet. Found them from a boomer that posted some stuff.

don't think detailed pics of the b2 topside are very common at all.

Also, Gray F117 is pretty scarce.

And travis left his whole album public..

http://i799.photobucket.com/albums/yy277/travisham135/IMG_0655.jpg

http://i799.photobucket.com/albums/yy277/travisham135/IMG_0654.jpg

Pictures by travisham135 - Photobucket (http://s799.photobucket.com/albums/yy277/travisham135/?start=all)

Link to all of his pics

[Brian]

yeah, he also has some pictures of an airbase in the desert that doesn't exist.

[S14DB]

Lets try to keep this about "General Aviation" please.

[Brian]

who isn't staying on topic?

This is airplane crap, dudes!

[Matej]

My brother hangs out with some guy who used to fly B2's from here to bomb Iraq on the weekends.
Pretty cool part-time job.

[HalveBlue]

Anybody have their CPL (H)?

[Teddy]

Just wanted to share some stuff with you fellow airplane nerds!

I was over at KTOA Torrance Airport a month ago for Air Traffic Controllers Appreciation Day and the local flight school was hosting a meet and greet BBQ... Some of the locals decided to come out and do some fly-bys in their Yak-52s and I think the lead plane is a T-6 but hard to tell.

zkrHAkLmcsk

And this is what I see pretty much on a daily basis from my house which is about 2 minutes from KTOA. I love the soundtrack on this one!

SU5yVOHjCeQ

[Teddy]

On a side note, yesterday I came across a sick iphone app (and maybe Android?) called LiveATC. $2.99 and you get live ATC from airports all around the world, even small GA airports! You also get all Area Control Centers...

Definitely worth the $3 if you're as nerdy as I am.

[S14DB]

On a side note, yesterday I came across a sick iphone app (and maybe Android?) called LiveATC. $2.99 and you get live ATC from airports all around the world, even small GA airports! You also get all Area Control Centers...

Definitely worth the $3 if you're as nerdy as I am.

Free online: Listen to Live ATC (Air Traffic Control) Communications | LiveATC.net (http://www.liveatc.net/)

Also, if you want to track planes: FlightAware - Flight Tracker / Flight Status / Flight Tracking (http://flightaware.com)

[Teddy]

I knew about the website, but the app is pretty cool so I figured I'd advertise it. Definitely a great combo with flight tracker!

Man I wish there were more young people really into GA in my area I have nobody to talk to. All of the flight clubs are old people, which is by no means a negative thing, but it's just nice to have people my age to talk to.

</emothoughts>

[leung]

I'm in school for aviation mgt/professional pilot minor. Working on getting my ppl, all i can say is...you need a lot of time, commitment, and money. Never thought there would be a thread on aviation on this forum lol..

[Brian]

come on Teddy. How you gonna skip on that video from Nellis.

[Teddy]

Fine Brian, give me a minute. I actually have a few of them.

I'm in school for aviation mgt/professional pilot minor. Working on getting my ppl, all i can say is...you need a lot of time, commitment, and money. Never thought there would be a thread on aviation on this forum lol..

How could there not be? I thought car guys would be more into it considering how it involves mechanics and machinery and precision piloting...

[Brian]

Heading out to Nevada today for a Nellis weekend!
:)

[Teddy]

Jealous! Hope it was awesome!

Yesterday on my way to Sylmar I had a 6 ship formation, smoke and all, cross over the freeway at about 200 feet. It was so cool.

[Teddy]

01vhkgeMWfY

Pretty damn cool. TWA DC-3s back in the day.