Factory Five Subaru based kit car

[g00se]

Hope this isnt a repost but for those who are semi disappointed with the FT-86 constant price shifting.
What's New (http://www.factoryfive.com/whatsnew/update/nextcar/info.html)

Based on tough Subaru WRX running gear, Factory Five's next car has been in development for almost a year. With a space frame designed and tested on SolidWorks software, this single donor car will sell for $9,900. We will use our 15 years of accumulated design and manufacturing skills to deliver a "world car" that can be COMPLETED for less than $15,000.


Single Donor Subaru WRX Running Gear

Factory Five Space Frame Chassis, 95" Wheel Base

Mid-Engine, Rear Wheel Drive Configuration

Target weight - 1,800 lbs.

Two Seater Roadster

No Paint, Gel Coat Panels

Target Kit Price: $9,900

Target Vehicle Completion Cost Under $15,000

Design Partners: SolidWorks Software, Grassroots
Motorsports Magazine

Automobile Magazine wrote the following:
"Have you ever wondered what would happen if you stuffed a Subaru WRX motor into something that's mid-engined, rear-wheel-drive, and weighs less than 2,000 lbs.? Because that's the next Factory Five car - a two-seater built around inexpensive and indestructible Subaru running gear. The styling isn't finalized, but I'm imaging something that looks like Lancia Stratos. And if you don't break into a creepy serial-killer smile every time you imagine an affordable, WRX-based Stratos, then you are some kind of weirdo. The car's new wheelbase is locked in at 95" which is a little longer then an Exige."


Ezra Dyer, Automobile Magazine

The concept itself looks like the attack that was based on the accord but that's not a bad thing.. along with an ej257+1800 lbs sounds pretty awesome to me.:wackit:

<--may just get rid of the LS1 swap in progress..

[HyperTek]

woah nice.. I been liking factoryfive's kit cars, I want the MK4 myself * i think its a pretty good Cobra replica that you can build up that has options like IRS etc* .. and the latest GTM aint too bad either, i can see it having potential.

I want their MK4
6ckgfkPU8Ss

[h2v7]

i dont understand can i get a pix

[soreballz]

^ The design isn't finalized yet.

[TheWolf]

Kit cars strike again.

Essentially they take a subie motor and tranny. block off the outputshaft to the rear diff. Drive subie on the FWD diff... install in back of kit car. Someone made a 962 porsche clone that used this setup for a racing series that never happened. diaso or something like that made it.

The issue is LSD's for the diff's.. and I don't think anyone has ever described a WRX transmission as "indestructable". I've heard the term.. "as fragile as glass".

I think it's a great idea, and factory 5 has a great rep, I don't think the average person here knows how much of a PITA they are to title and insure. On a personal note, I think something like this and make a factory "spec" drift class where all the spares are based around one "car". ie. Buy this chassis and a wrecked wrx and then compete in a spec series instead of retarded 9000hp 75 degree angle matches based around super expensive and hard to fix modern car chassis.

[S14DB]

I saw this a month ago, I guess you got the new email today? I wouldn't abandon any plans you have now. Unless they are way down the road.

Hopefully it will go better then his brothers Jetta sawzall fest.

I'm looking forward to the development as I would like to build something smaller than the GTM. The low CG of a boxer engine is a nice bonus.

http://www.factoryfive.com/whatsnew/update/nextcar/images/frame4_drawing.jpg
http://www.factoryfive.com/whatsnew/update/nextcar/infotext.html
Kit cars strike again.

Essentially they take a subie motor and tranny. block off the outputshaft to the rear diff. Drive subie on the FWD diff... install in back of kit car. Someone made a 962 porsche clone that used this setup for a racing series that never happened. diaso or something like that made it.

The issue is LSD's for the diff's.. and I don't think anyone has ever described a WRX transmission as "indestructable". I've heard the term.. "as fragile as glass".

I think it's a great idea, and factory 5 has a great rep, I don't think the average person here knows how much of a PITA they are to title and insure. On a personal note, I think something like this and make a factory "spec" drift class where all the spares are based around one "car". ie. Buy this chassis and a wrecked wrx and then compete in a spec series instead of retarded 9000hp 75 degree angle matches based around super expensive and hard to fix modern car chassis.
This is still very early in the design phase. They are now taking design idea ala Local Motors. I am sure they will address these issues when they get to that point in the development.

They had problems with the G50 Transmission in the GTM kit and now Mendeola makes a upgraded unit.

Titling isn't that hard. DMV Registration for Custom Built Cars - DMV Guide (http://www.dmv.org/custom-built-cars.php) I'm sure Insurance is only a pain because you usually have to go trough a specialty insurance company. Little more work but not a PITA.

[Infamax]

woah nice.. I been liking factoryfive's kit cars, I want the MK4 myself * i think its a pretty good Cobra replica that you can build up that has options like IRS etc* .. and the latest GTM aint too bad either, i can see it having potential.

I want their MK4
6ckgfkPU8Ss

There's a body shop, in the town I live in, that's always working on Cobra replica kit cars. It's always nice passing by and looking at the cars.

[TheWolf]

They had problems with the G50 Transmission in the GTM kit and now Mendeola makes a upgraded unit.



Anyone who's been around cars for a while, knows you can't take a used 80's porsche transmission, flip it upside down, reroute some oil and drill a new breather and call it ok to stick behind a ls1. No one wants to put a beefy porsche turbo gearbox with lsd behind one because those cost real money.

Reminds me of people using lt1's and audi 5000 transaxles.. sure it will work... for a while..

Some people think honda/dsm people are the cheapest, or nissan s13 guys are the cheapest.. no kit car guys are the cheapest by far. Give them a parts list with 20k in stuff on it and they'll pull the cheapest crappiest parts and bodge something together with 3k in real out. I'd say 20% of kit cars get built.. and only 10% would make it farther than 50 miles.. only 5% you'd want to ride in for more than 50 miles..


Thanks for the link.. been kicking around building a toyota 20v black top powered super 7...

[WanganRunner]

This is pretty cool and I'm glad they're doing it.

"Indestructible" my ass though. That 5MT, even in it's newest incarnations, is still made of glass.

[codyace]

We've had two GTM's come through the shop for PA's Enhanced Inspection process...certianly neet looking...but it's really tough to get over the 'kit' feel of them. They sure hauled ass, both were LS6 powered/Porsche transaxle setups.

[codyace]

This is pretty cool and I'm glad they're doing it.

"Indestructible" my ass though. That 5MT, even in it's newest incarnations, is still made of glass.

'Rally Inspired, not Rally Tough'

[blueshark123]

Damn i like this idea alot. Especially its made by someone like them. Thats my future goal to build my favorite car/shelby

[g00se]

Yeah, for a while I couldn't pass a 5.0 mustang without thinking about building a cobra rep =/..

[0100]

I saw this a month ago, I guess you got the new email today? I wouldn't abandon any plans you have now. Unless they are way down the road.


I'm looking forward to the development as I would like to build something smaller than the GTM. The low CG of a boxer engine is a nice bonus.



Yeah I saw this in the Automobile mag back in January, and I am very very excited about this. I just hope they don't fuck up the body styling. I really wanted to like the GTM, and it's specs are great for the price, but the body looks like a kit car (fiberglass body hanging on a tube frame chassis). They have some great partners on this project and over 15 years of experience in this, so I really hope they can make this into a sharp looking beast of a track day car.

The concept drawing is amazing.

http://www.factoryfive.com/whatsnew/update/nextcar/images/sample_concept.jpg

They have stated they like the 918 style.

http://www.caradvice.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/Porsche-918-Spyder-Concept_404.jpg

If they come out with a sexy body this thing is going to be massive!

They have a body design competition going on right now until June so if you guys have some skill, you should submit some stuff. Unfortunately I don't see this ready, until this time next year.

They are only 60min from me too!

[HyperTek]

any links to that contest besides being just saying it will be done by grassroots? hope they have online submissions and not requiring to buy the mag. nevermind
http://www.factoryfive.com/whatsnew/update/nextcar/designcomp.html

[0100]

Some entries:

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/media/F5%20weekly%20winners/Steven%20Wang%20Contest%20Entries/wang%20side.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_e9GW4M7g5Rk/TXcFkyhKdyI/AAAAAAAABz0/YBcYy02ybos/s640/f5qmf.JPG

http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l619/xabier-albizu/sketch1.jpg

http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2011/061/6/a/essence_speedster_concept_1_by_ruindog-d3ased7.jpg

http://filebox.vt.edu/users/maperez/FF%20Concept%20Render6.JPG

http://filebox.vt.edu/users/maperez/FF%20Concept%20Render7.JPG

http://porschephoto.com/porsche_photo/porsche_panamera_1965_design_concept_2.jpg

[S14DB]

Some people think honda/dsm people are the cheapest, or nissan s13 guys are the cheapest.. no kit car guys are the cheapest by far. Give them a parts list with 20k in stuff on it and they'll pull the cheapest crappiest parts and bodge something together with 3k in real out. I'd say 20% of kit cars get built.. and only 10% would make it farther than 50 miles.. only 5% you'd want to ride in for more than 50 miles...Yeah, I have been shopping kits for a while. So, many people look at me like I am nuts when I want to buy new (OEM replacement) parts instead of pulling them off a 5-20yr old donor car. Knowing the average owner the parts are probably shot off the donor.
Thanks for the link.. been kicking around building a toyota 20v black top powered super 7...Great thing about FL is if you can't title it as a kit car, You can title it as a assembly of parts. As long as the Kit comes with a Origin of Manufacture and a bill of sale from the kit company it shouldn't be any problems registering it as a Kit Car.
This is pretty cool and I'm glad they're doing it.

"Indestructible" my ass though. That 5MT, even in it's newest incarnations, is still made of glass.
Nothing a some parts from PPG can't fix.

[HAWAII]

i wish it is easy to register a kit car in CA =( .

[g00se]

Specially Constructed Vehicles- Emission Control
What is the Specially Constructed Vehicle Emission Control Program?
Existing law requires most 1976 and newer model year vehicles to pass an emissions control inspection (smog check) prior to original registration, transfer of ownership, and every second annual renewal. Since Specially Constructed Vehicles (SPCNS) are homemade and do not have a manufacturer-assigned model year, they must be taken to a Bureau of Automotive Repair (BAR) Referee Station for the original inspection. Upon completion of the inspection, the referee will affix a tamper-resistant label to the vehicle and issue a certificate that establishes the model-year for future inspection purposes.
Per California Vehicle Code §4750.1, the first 500 program applicants in each calendar year may choose whether the inspection is based on the model-year of the engine used in the vehicle or the vehicle model-year. If the engine or the vehicle does not sufficiently resemble one previously manufactured, the referee will assign 1960 as the model-year.
After the first 500 vehicles have been registered in any calendar year, all others will be assigned the same model-year as the calendar year in which the application is submitted.
Previously registered vehicles may be included as one of the first 500 applicants in a calendar year and apply for a different model-year determination.
What is an SPCNS Certificate of Sequence? An SPCNS Certificate of Sequence identifies a vehicle as one for which the owner may choose emission control inspection based on the model-year of the engine used in the vehicle or the vehicle model-year. The certificate is issued by DMV Headquarters and will be mailed 7-10 working days after the application is accepted by your local DMV. The certificate must be presented to the BAR Referee Station at the time of inspection.
Per statute, only 500 certificates can be issued in a calendar year. Once the yearly allotment has been issued, applicants must wait until the following year to apply for a certificate.
SPCNS Certificates of Sequence cannot be transferred to a different vehicle or reissued in someone else's name. The seller of a vehicle must provide the buyer with the SPCNS Certificate of Sequence along with the bill of sale and any additional registration documents. In addition, fees deposited in one year cannot be held over for the next year's allocation of certificates.
Note: Due to the limited number of SPCNS Certificates of Sequence available, you may wish to submit your application for registration in person at a local DMV office.
From Specially Constructed Vehicles Emission Control (http://www.dmv.ca.gov/vr/spcns.htm) getting a sb100 is not that bad, but standing in front of the DMV at 5:00 am to get one right after New Years kind of blows..

its really easy for cobra reps, the smog reqs subaru (818) kit will probably follow the wrx so just get a catted DP and you should be good

[onehundredoctane]

I know that with their GTM kit car, a lot of the Corvette stuff bolts right on. Which would be nice if they do the same with the Subaru based car. Just swapping the drivetrain, suspension, brakes, wheels and tires would be a lot easier than sourcing all the stuff in pieces, that crap adds up quick.

[S14DB]

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/media/F5%20weekly%20winners/Steven%20Wang%20Contest%20Entries/wang%20iso.jpg
http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/media/F5%20weekly%20winners/xabieralbizuponce%20entry.jpg
http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/media/F5%20weekly%20winners/FFRPerezDesign.jpg
http://www.factoryfive.com/whatsnew/update/nextcar/images/Skitso.jpg
http://www.factoryfive.com/whatsnew/update/nextcar/images/5IVE.jpg

What's New (http://www.factoryfive.com/whatsnew/update/nextcar/gallery.html)

[Schassis707]

That porsche looks like it has a ghia front for a second

[exitspeed]

Those pics make me realize how much i suck at car renderings.

[tac 1]

I was just watching about F5 on speed channel last week. Wished they would make something jdm based cars, then bam! I'm excited!

[0100]

Was waiting for this thread to get bumped.

I asked Xabier (week 2 winner) to do his car in white with black wheels, and lower it, as his first colored drawing was sitting too 4x4 for my liking.

Shit is perfect. I also think it's the most realistic for FF to build within it's price point for this car. Some of the concept drawing are awesome but would be far too expensive to produce.

http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l619/xabier-albizu/factoryfive-render-low-ride.jpg



http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o193/bradfosk06/FF.jpg

^Loving the old school feel this car has.

Some other sketches.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v217/05xtsy/3quarterfullpanel1.jpg

http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/6747/skitso2.jpg

http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/9282/skitso2627.jpg

[Gnnr]

I don't understand how some of the designers confused Porsche 918 for Lamborghini. That red one above looks like a Noble.

[Zakk]

I don't understand how some of the designers confused Porsche 918 for Lamborghini. That red one above looks like a Noble.

No reason to turn down a $15k Lamborghini either though :P

[HyperTek]

I think detachable bumpers would be cool so F5 could always release different aero packages, allow potential minor updates, or even open customers up to fiberglassing their own creations

[0100]

I don't understand how some of the designers confused Porsche 918 for Lamborghini. That red one above looks like a Noble.

Sorry should have been more clear. They stated they liked the 918 style, but the designers are free to come up with whatever concept they like, for this contest. The only parameters they have is chassis dimensions like WB, etc. Even that they stated they may change if an unbelievable design comes up, which causes some changes to the chassis.

[WanganRunner]

I think I'd prefer this as an open-wheel car, but I like the MR/roadster layout.

[S14DB]

B-3Z9zUZRpE

Project 818 Design Contest Awards (http://www.factoryfive.com/whatsnew/update/nextcar/818winnerstext.html)

[fyneyoungstunna]

This is my fav so far!
http://porschephoto.com/porsche_photo/porsche_panamera_1965_design_concept_2.jpg
I hate techno-babble cars, with useless plastic and catfish front bumpers....

This one is my second fav, its just classy without going overboard.
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o193/bradfosk06/FF.jpg

[BOROSUN]

i didnt know there was a design contest.

i have some neat ideas.

[Gnnr]

Wake me when they've decided on the final design.

[g00se]

Yeah Im getting pretty disappointed with the lack of real updates. I used to check out the ffr forums pretty regularly but now it feels like the momentum is starting to die.

And some of the designs are pretty hideous..

[S14DB]

Wake me when they've decided on the final design.
Yeah Im getting pretty disappointed with the lack of real updates. I used to check out the ffr forums pretty regularly but now it feels like the momentum is starting to die.

And some of the designs are pretty hideous..
B-3Z9zUZRpE

Project 818 Design Contest Awards (http://www.factoryfive.com/whatsnew/update/nextcar/818winnerstext.html)
They announced the winners of the contest

[HyperTek]

i left for 2 months, i would have submitted an entry.. I do not like the 1st place winner.. I do like the 3rd place winner in race trim as scene in the video.

[TheWolf]

my god these designs are awful. I'm convinced no one designing these cars has ever picked up a wrench in their life let alone bent a piece of steel. Every one of these cars must have about a one foot wide doorsill that you must step on or over to get in. The key elements in all the 3-1 place cars involve windshield glass that will cost a fortune and 24" wheels with 18" corvette brakes to stop a 1800lb car which is rubbish.

None of them in their current design are "production moldable" fiberglass bodies. This is all one off fairy tail bullshit. There's not even a "hood" or "trunk" done into any of them. Barely any visible door seams. Cars look great when there's no panel lines but making a car great with panel lines is the key. There will be a lot of discussions between engineers and designers about what can and can't work if they ever put that into production. Take the winning car. Remove the 24" wheels and replace with 18's. Remove the 18" brakes and replace with 12" stock subie running gear, and remove that V shaped floor and replace it with a straight line so someone taller than 5'5" can sit in the car and your left with another 90's BS concept car with 4x4 stance. No windows, door locks, targa top, or AC in these cars I imagine. The design is so far advanced that the interior will never match it either.

3rd place racer was probably the most realistic, production viable candidate.

[Toi]

If they ran the 6MT then I could believe the indestructible part.

The weakness of the 5MT isn't the gears however, its the wonderful case flex that AWD puts on the mission during hard launches that does it.

[TheWolf]

If they ran the 6MT then I could believe the indestructible part.

The weakness of the 5MT isn't the gears however, its the wonderful case flex that AWD puts on the mission during hard launches that does it.

The idea is that because you've removed the AWD aspect of the box and run a lower weight, you'll take an unreliable part and make it reliable. They basically remove the center diff, lock the two shafts together that ran to it, and drive it off the front diff. Being lightweight and RWD then the box "should live" because it can't load up AWD style and because the rear tires will spin. Claims of them living upto 350hp arn't hard to find. But this is the internet. Land of stawk internal 1500hp 2jz that last 10 years and reliable rotarys. Still no factory LSD in there so you've got 1800lbs.. 300hp, a slick body all doing a one wheel burnout on corner exit. :facepalm:

[g00se]

Obx has a front diff for the wrx, which i am sure would be fine for lower power levels. And in a 1800lbs car you probably wouldnt want more than 350 at the wheel.

[HyperTek]

you know some fcktards will put 350 chevy and 302 ford engines in them.

I bet alot of those entries are just random designs that people came up with before the contest and just decided "hey ill send in that old drawing I did blah blah".....

[Gnnr]

They announced the winners of the contest

Yeah, but they haven't picked one design that's final, right? :confused:

[g00se]

It looks like they are currently building 3 1/4 scale models to test. Updates from dave smith tom.
I am just wondering where the gas tank will sit, if the interior will allow for sti gauges/seats and if the car will have the snap oversteer characteristic ala mr2

[Purestock240]

I see a racing series of just these cars in the future, similar to the one road course series that was only pontiac solstices.

[tac 1]

Im not feeling the firts place winner either. Oh well, we'll see what happens

[0100]

Surprised this hasn't been bumped.

Performance: this thing ticks all the boxes. Light, proper engine placement, tube frame race chassis, turbo.

Price: nothing can even come close. LSx miata maybe, but this thing due to the items listed above will beat a lsx/miata me thinks at 9 out of 10 road courses.

Appearance: at first I didn't really like it, but it is growing on me. Really growing on me. It has a lot of potential I think. Can't wait to see a hard top version down the road. The paint scheme and wheels are not flattering at all. Solid color white, red or whatever with proper wheels and offset and ride height and I think this thing could be a looker. I will probably just go black though, which I think will hide it's biggest flaw the headlights. Honestly could care less, as I think this is going to be a beast of a track car, and when you are sitting in the drivers seat who cares what it looks like. Aftermarket will come also, like the red one with the photoshoped Ferrari style front bumper. Check the wingless red one. Like I said this thing has major potential in the appearance department (in the right hands). The potential on the performance end is off the charts.

http://www.dj0100.com/ff1.jpg

http://www.dj0100.com/ff3.jpg

http://www.dj0100.com/ff4.jpg

http://www.dj0100.com/ff5.jpg

http://www.dj0100.com/ff6.jpg

http://www.dj0100.com/ff7.jpg

Stock
http://www.dj0100.com/ioddnn.jpg

Aftermarket (possibly)
http://www.dj0100.com/ff2.png

http://ffroadster.com/images/818/Spyshot818R-1.jpg

http://ffroadster.com/images/818/Spyshot818R-2.jpg

http://ffroadster.com/images/818/Spyshot818R-3.jpg

http://ffroadster.com/images/818/Spyshot818R-4.jpg

http://ffroadster.com/images/818/Spyshot818R-5.jpg

http://ffroadster.com/images/818/Spyshot818R-6.jpg

http://ffroadster.com/images/818/Spyshot818R-7.jpg

[S14DB]

When it turned into a Challenge car and not a street vehicle I lost all interest. Oh boy a spec race car. I need one of those for my SCCA/NASA teams...


They also stopped sending me updates like they are embarrassed of it. Still send me info on the MK4, '33 and GTM. Haven't heard a peep from them about it in over a year

[0100]

They have a race version and street version.

Embarrassed? lol this is Dave and his teams pride and joy. The pictures I posted aren't on the main website or emails. The race and street version are deputing at SEMA and that is when they will be sending out info.

[S14DB]

They have a race version and street version.

Embarrassed? lol this is Dave and his teams pride and joy. The pictures I posted aren't on the main website or emails. The race and street version are deputing at SEMA and that is when they will be sending out info.

Oh, the only SEMA info I have seen is the '33 Roadster.

[0100]

Yeah they are literally still finishing up the race and street version for SEMA. Street version is still going to be a very raw car. Not a DD (for most) but definitely streetable (just the way I like it). A soft top, targa, and hard top are being talked about and will probably be released in that order. This is still the early stages. They are just finishing up the first 3 cars, and these kits wont be ready for shipping till probably the spring. I have been told there is already a waiting list.