Japanese Drifting Vs. American Drifting

[One_love_silvia]

This is why japanese drifting > american drifting..

angle> speed

YouTube - A. Kuroi Getting some Angle (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0LmdirxZys)

YouTube - Best Drift Ever D1 Nissan Rps13 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqafizym3t0)

now for american drifting..

YouTube - Ryuji Miki vs John Wagner Formula Drift Atanta 2009 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugPThNOuFKo)

wtb moar angle...


just thought i'd share my opinion and see if people agree or differ.

[90hatchie]

your comparing solo qualifying runs to tandem runs
qualifying runs are memnt to have big angle and such where tandem you wanna keep up with ur tandem partner and stay glued to him without the risk of spinning due to too much angle

[One_love_silvia]

well....u got me on the solo vs. tandem thing. for some reason i didnt catch that. guess i was mesmerized by the angle lol

but for tandeming, all ur talking abt is the chase car. the lead car is still supposed to drive faster and out angle the chase car.

not to mention ive been to a formula d event, and even in the qualifying runs the drivers got no where near as much angle as these s13 drivers did. not to mention american drift cars probably arent even equipped with the right kind of mods/equipment to sustain a drift of that angle.

the most angle ive ever seen in a formula D race was 2010 irwindale (the one i went to) in the semi final round with JR versus Aasbo. Aasbo was gettin mad angle both runs. the crowd went wild. yet for some reason the judges still voted JR. to be the winner? the crowd was pissed. booing for like 2 mins straight.

american drifters dont go for angle because they know thats not the main thing the judges look for here. they mainly look for entrance speed, and speed maintained while drifting. those are the key factors to winning in FD USA.

in japan, the judges mainly look for angle, so the drivers give more angle.

of course all judges still take into account all the point systems, but each country has their thing that stands out the most.

and be aware, in no way am i saying japanese drifters are more SKILLED than american drifters (though they probably are) just because they can get more angle. im simply comparing the styles of drifting. and last time i checked, Drifting = angle driving....NASCAR = speed driving. check the countries of origin for them, and you'll understand why things are the way they are. FD USA is just nascar with a japanese touch to it.

still entertaining to watch however, since its really the main/only broadcasted drifting show in USA.
/end rant

[hartig]

america is only about speed
/thread

[One_love_silvia]

america is only about speed
/thread
Clearly ur good at reading. Its a thread abt ppls opinion on jap drift vs. American drift.
And 90hatch I'm sure u can appreciate the first vid I posted, seeing its the dude in ur signature
Didn't know he died last year. That's shitty. RIP to a great drifter

[hartig]

Clearly ur good at reading. Its a thread abt ppls opinion on jap drift vs. American drift.
And 90hatch I'm sure u can appreciate the first vid I posted, seeing its the dude in ur signature
Didn't know he died last year. That's shitty. RIP to a great drifter

i clearly read, and i was agreeing with you. american drifting sucks because everyone just gets monstrous horsepower and just barely gets any angle.
so as i said, america only wants speed. they don't care how good it looks, they're just worried about how fast they can go.

[dksil80]

well i mean drifting did start in japan.. and for them its more of art then sports? lol.. if you watch all the touge drifts on youtube that happens in japan.. its nothing like the d1 drifts. iono.. lol

[One_love_silvia]

i clearly read, and i was agreeing with you. american drifting sucks because everyone just gets monstrous horsepower and just barely gets any angle.
so as i said, america only wants speed. they don't care how good it looks, they're just worried about how fast they can go.
Ah I c. I apologize. Ur first response was really vague. This is the kinda response I was lookin for :P
And ya I agree. I mean I do see drifting as a sport, but I also love the fact that its an art form. Maybe that's y drifting got my attention...lol
Other than its pure badassness. XP

[Schassis707]

Japanese drifting started in the hills. It was street racers taking normal tuner cars and trying to get up/ down the hill the fastest. It is quicker to mash through and counter steer than to keep traction all the way through.

Also there its all formed with style. Here, like mentioned before its all speed.

[Teddy]

Japanese drifting > American drifting any day.

But try telling that to an American and they will call you ignorant because they always have to be the "best" at everything.

[20 til 3]

you guys make it sound like people only drift in japan and america. Its more of a national thing now.


and its not one over the other, everyone has there own style of drifting. And some people just have a little more style. I've seen plenty of US drifters that in my opinion have more skill.

[dksil80]

the thing about the U.S is that, we dont have much place to drift.. especially here in dallas.. im into drifting but nothing i can do to actually get into it. sad aint it? LOL i wanna visit japan once and see it live hahaha

[Schassis707]

you guys make it sound like people only drift in japan and america. Its more of a national thing now.


and its not one over the other, everyone has there own style of drifting. And some people just have a little more style. I've seen plenty of US drifters that in my opinion have more skill.

Well ya when its more generalized, there are always gonna be people that are better than others. And yes other people drift not just americans and japanese. But if you read the title even, OP wants feedback on american drifting and japanese drifting styles.

[fckillerbee]

Japanese drifting > American drifting any day.

But try telling that to an American and they will call you ignorant because they always have to be the "best" at everything.

this is true.

if you ever drive with a guy from japan....they have "finess". they aren't concerned about anything but their line.

for example....watch any of the really good top drivers in d1....they don't brake check the following car...trying to make them fail. it's who can follow better. And they respect if someone is just better.

america is all about being number 1. cut throat. make money....no love for just the sport. that's why teddy is so hate on the v8...cause it's about being number 1. Not for the love of driving, because you can't enjoy a tandem with an opponent, if you guys are running two different power plants. two different boost settings, because driving against another car should be fun, and difficult....not easy, not advantageous.

Buy a v8 cause it's reliable, and you want to slide...don't buy it cause you want to be number 1.

This sport...was designed for style...that's why they slide, keep it close, watch the line.....

not what formula d is doing to the sport...making it about money...about the sponsors.....I know they have to get to where they want, but they are also ruining the original culture of sliding a car....go out and have fun.

[fckillerbee]

and OP...so that you know the rules....the lead car has to be within 95% of his qualifying run....the following car has to do just that....follow. More points are awarded for taking away a line, getting closer to the apex than the lead car. Plus, this bullshit launch thing drives me up a wall. How can a 600whp car not beat a 400whp off the line. D1 docked points for "leaving" the opponent...wtf?

[Aki180sx]

the thing about the U.S is that, we dont have much place to drift.. especially here in dallas.. im into drifting but nothing i can do to actually get into it. sad aint it? LOL i wanna visit japan once and see it live hahaha


Wrong. There are tons of drift events in your area.

[h2v7]

WP7w5zvJrOs

[dksil80]

Wrong. There are tons of drift events in your area.

im not talking about events, i know there is a lot of events where you can take in your car and drift.. im talking about in open roads.. you know in japan there are a lot mountains.. and at night ppl gather around and just drift for the hell of it.. vs. us here.. we meet up and do a freeway pull. i wanna actually see like a illegal touge drifting in japan.

[dksil80]

YouTube - Osaka Touge Drift HQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mqXXqB7SBQ)

its kinda cool how they're all 240's and silvias lol

[gearhead55]

daigo saito is the fucking man. what a beast.

[Urbanite714]

first of all drifting is WAAAYYYY Bigger in japan then it is here,
you might think that drifting is blowing up here, and it is to an extent, but it is no where near as big as it is in japan.
just because its trendy now to drive a slammed 240 doesnt mean drifiting is big, professionally at least.
we only have like 2 circuits i can think of, xdc and fd...
that would be why their cars and drivers are so much more wild then ours.

its like trying to compare english football and american soccer,
english football puts american soccer to shame,
everybody recognizes that english soccer is better, but no one really cares because its not that big here. naw mean?


they're different leagues
you cant compare the two side by side.

if u put our "best driver" vaughn gittin jr, against idk taniguchi, kazama,, shit even dorikin tsuchiya i'm confident they will hand his ass to him.

that being said i do enjoy fd and xdc, those foos are good, better than most people will ever be so dont hate just becasue you wanna be super jdm yo.

that run at irwindale between aasbo and jr was some of the most exciting drifting ive ever seen.

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/z82jeFREiHo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Urbanite714]

lol my bad for writing a freakin novel,

but also we have no tracks like they do in japan,

their tracks are super techincal and sharp

we have no such thing like that here, to my knowlege at least.

if we had tracks that had all those crazy turns and elevation changes then our drivers would rock them.

btu since we dont, our drifing isnt as angle oriented.

whateves tho,

i love american drifting,
i love japanese drifting,
i love german drifting,
i love drifting.

90 percent of 240 guys are just caught up in the politics of being jdm tyte yo.

[Banana_Cute]

Japanese drifting all day.

I dont know if you guys remember when D1 first came to the states back in 05-06??

I think it was the best drift show i've ever attended till today. The cars, the drivers, commentators are great. Driving skills are awesome too. Makes you sit on the edge of your seat, though it might not be as fast as Vaughn, It nearly next to the wall where all the excitement is. And commentators are hilarious. Though american drifters have plenty of talent, they're mostly.....predictable.

I think japanese drifting is much more exciting to watch.

Ever since FD and different management taking over D1GP. Drift events are like BLAH!!... Its more exciting watching amateurs @ Orange Show or even Adams at times.

[smokestr240]

lol my bad for writing a freakin novel,

but also we have no tracks like they do in japan,

their tracks are super techincal and sharp

we have no such thing like that here, to my knowlege at least.

if we had tracks that had all those crazy turns and elevation changes then our drivers would rock them.

btu since we dont, our drifing isnt as angle oriented.

whateves tho,

i love american drifting,
i love japanese drifting,
i love german drifting,
i love drifting.

90 percent of 240 guys are just caught up in the politics of being jdm tyte yo.


correction "hella" jdm tyte yo! lol :keke:

[One_love_silvia]

Japanese drifting all day.

I dont know if you guys remember when D1 first came to the states back in 05-06??

I think it was the best drift show i've ever attended till today. The cars, the drivers, commentators are great. Driving skills are awesome too. Makes you sit on the edge of your seat, though it might not be as fast as Vaughn, It nearly next to the wall where all the excitement is. And commentators are hilarious. Though american drifters have plenty of talent, they're mostly.....predictable.

I think japanese drifting is much more exciting to watch.

Ever since FD and different management taking over D1GP. Drift events are like BLAH!!... Its more exciting watching amateurs @ Orange Show or even Adams at times.
This! Exactly this. Japanese drifters and there for the fun and for the crowd. They're not there abt money and all that jazz. Hell, even the commentators are better than ours. Sure, our guy can be funny, but that's only when the drivers r taking a break. Get excited! These guys are going all out door to door, and all u can do is sound like a golf commentator?

As for being jdm tyte, its not abt that at all. Its the fact that the heart of drifting started in the mountains of japan. Its about huge angle. Its abt the shear thrill of being sideways in a car! Why do we need to try and 'make it our own' with less angle and faster speeds.
Hell, I know that if england or some other country tried to take football and change it around a little. Maybe no pads but its 2 hand touch? I'd be pissed. They wud be making a mockery of football. Hell they alrdy do because they're so bad at it. But that's another argument.

The point is, why adopt a sport, or anything for that matter, from another country and change it? Its obvously as popular as it is for a reason. If they bring it here because that's what americans wana see, its cuz we wana see japanese style of drifting. Not some american washed version of it. Ya, formula d is still fun to watch. But only because they don't air japanese drifting here much, if at all. I'm pretty confident that formula d's viewing audience would be much smaller if they showed all of the drifting they do in japan. I personally probably wouldn't even watch formula d.

Its cool to watch because its drifting, but itd be so much cooler if it was more jap styled. I personallly know a lot of people who don't even watch fd because of how lame the usa has made it. I love my country, don't get me wrong. But if it aint broken, don't fix it.

[Brian]

I invented All Star Bash to try and keep drifting cool.

[Michael Nolan]

I personally think FD is slowly killing Drifting... I'm really young and am already starting to ignore FD just because of all the BS and Drama Dramz that come with it. The tracks are pretty lame and every car has a V8. Cool and good sounding, but I mean come on, most US motorsports are all V8's anyways.

I like grassroots drifting a lot, (most of you guys) just because there's no bs and the cars are much better, either in Japan or the Coastside. Before coming to this site a couple months ago, I thought Japans drifting is a lot better than it is state side, but after a couple days on here my thoughts changed. I never knew how many "underground drifters" there are.

[Imarvin240]

i have always loved that track with the jump...so sick! go jpan on track design!

[hartig]

i feel so bored watching vaughn gitten jr drive his stupid mustang around one corner

[usdm180sx]

Japanese drifting > American drifting any day.

But try telling that to an American and they will call you ignorant because they always have to be the "best" at everything.

^This all day every day

Japanese drifters have the finesse that no other drifters have

[lost240soul]

i also believe FD is killing drifting..it sucks to think that all those people are after money and not the love of the motorsport..also alot of the us drifters have HUGE egos were as most of the japanese drifters are very humble .. even grass roots drifters are humble, well most of them lol... u can also see the differances in jpn drifting their always alot more closer to each other were as FD drivers are like a few car links away .. i think if their was a hp cap it would make things alot more interesting rather than watching a 700hp v8 mustang vs. 180hp corolla o_0.. thats just my opnion to

[drift freaq]

^This all day every day

Japanese drifters have the finesse that no other drifters have

To a certain extent true but you guys really need to watch Super Modifieds. Not only do they get Super angle but they do it in 700LB 750HP cars, all the way around the track on dirt.

Don't get me wrong I totally respect and think the Japanese are bad ass. Though this whole Japanese invented drifting thing is really just not true. They just turned it into a Seperate Sport. Racers were drifting in Pro Rally, Super Modified, Midgets etc.. for years.
The Japanese were just smart enough to realize they could turn it into its own seperate event.

The other reason a lot of American drifters suck is because most of the never learned to drive a road course. I know people will get pissed about this statement but its true.

A lot of Americans that call themselves drifters never practiced driving a fast line on road course or did road racing. A few have, Rhys Millen, Tanner Foust for example, but a lot have not.


Most all Japanese drifters have either practiced road course driving or come out of or driven in JGTC.

[Urbanite714]

This! Exactly this. Japanese drifters and there for the fun and for the crowd. They're not there abt money and all that jazz. Hell, even the commentators are better than ours. Sure, our guy can be funny, but that's only when the drivers r taking a break. Get excited! These guys are going all out door to door, and all u can do is sound like a golf commentator?

As for being jdm tyte, its not abt that at all. Its the fact that the heart of drifting started in the mountains of japan. Its about huge angle. Its abt the shear thrill of being sideways in a car! Why do we need to try and 'make it our own' with less angle and faster speeds.
Hell, I know that if england or some other country tried to take football and change it around a little. Maybe no pads but its 2 hand touch? I'd be pissed. They wud be making a mockery of football. Hell they alrdy do because they're so bad at it. But that's another argument.

The point is, why adopt a sport, or anything for that matter, from another country and change it? Its obvously as popular as it is for a reason. If they bring it here because that's what americans wana see, its cuz we wana see japanese style of drifting. Not some american washed version of it. Ya, formula d is still fun to watch. But only because they don't air japanese drifting here much, if at all. I'm pretty confident that formula d's viewing audience would be much smaller if they showed all of the drifting they do in japan. I personally probably wouldn't even watch formula d.

Its cool to watch because its drifting, but itd be so much cooler if it was more jap styled. I personallly know a lot of people who don't even watch fd because of how lame the usa has made it. I love my country, don't get me wrong. But if it aint broken, don't fix it.

lol i was talking about english soccer fool
football=soccer.

[Urbanite714]

I personally think FD is slowly killing Drifting... I'm really young and am already starting to ignore FD just because of all the BS and Drama Dramz that come with it. The tracks are pretty lame and every car has a V8. Cool and good sounding, but I mean come on, most US motorsports are all V8's anyways.

I like grassroots drifting a lot, (most of you guys) just because there's no bs and the cars are much better, either in Japan or the Coastside. Before coming to this site a couple months ago, I thought Japans drifting is a lot better than it is state side, but after a couple days on here my thoughts changed. I never knew how many "underground drifters" there are.

thats what i'm talking about,
what does it matter what motors are in the cars?
haha everyone is just worried about supporting japan this and japan that and japan is so great,
japan is great, yeah but its not everything
especially since we're not japan.

AND FOR YOU FOOLS WORRIED ABOUT HOW MUCH THE FD DRIVERS MAKE and all they care about money and shit,

they barely make any money,
they are not rich dudes,
alot of the guys are actually pretty normal guys
joon maeng actually works in a grocery store part time,
and taka aono works in a shop to support his drifting,
even vaughn gittin poonior doesnt make alot of money.

who cares how much money they make?
jeezzz.....
youre making something thats not important, important.

AND BTW AN LS1 IS VASTLY SUPERIOR TO ANY SR20 OR KA,
i dont care what you say about how many american motorsports have v8's
bottom line an ls1 does the job better then a japanese motor.
who cares about the politics of AMERICA IS THE BEST AND EVERYTHING ELSE SUCSK BLAH BLAH BLAH

LOL YOU NOOBS, have you ever even driven a v8
i drove my dads sc t bird, that shit was crazy,
so much torque, i didnt even know what to do with it,
i had to watch how hard i stepped on the pedal just so i wouldnt spin the tires taking off

[Teddy]

In drifting, there is Japan... and then there is Fredric Aasbo.

[singlecamslam]

Japanese dont use V8's haha. And still better than drifting here? Therefore proving you dont need a v8 to be cool? Teddy?

[DataXUnknown]

"It doesn't matter if you win by a few degrees or a few MPH, DRIFTINGS DRIFTING."

[Toi]

AND BTW AN LS1 IS VASTLY SUPERIOR TO ANY SR20 OR KA,
i dont care what you say about how many american motorsports have v8's
bottom line an ls1 does the job better then a japanese motor.
who cares about the politics of AMERICA IS THE BEST AND EVERYTHING ELSE SUCSK BLAH BLAH BLAH

LOL YOU NOOBS, have you ever even driven a v8
i drove my dads sc t bird, that shit was crazy,
so much torque, i didnt even know what to do with it,
i had to watch how hard i stepped on the pedal just so i wouldnt spin the tires taking off

If you want racing with drifting, you run the togue, if you want drifting you get out on a track and make it a pretty as possible. Getting 20 degrees of angle and some white smoke isn't impressive at high speed is more like NASCAR wrecks, considering they both last about as long.

[One_love_silvia]

lol i was talking about english soccer fool
football=soccer.

i know that. i was just using american football as an example of a sport that originates in a certain country, and is played in another country but with diff rules/style.

@urban they may not make a ton of money drifting, but they still make pretty good money for doing something as fun as drifting. not to mention they do it for the fame. listen to JR talk. hes a total sell out. he cant say a single god damn sentence without saying "ford mustang", "monster energy drink", or "falken tires".

ya i get drifting costs alot of money, and its hard to do it professionally without sponsors, but you can still have sponsors and retain ur own style. dont give in so easily. sponsors are there for a reason. they want to be known. if people didnt give into sponsorship demands so easily, the sponsors wouldnt have any choice but to give the drivers more choice in what they drive.

im sure i sound really ignorant, but it would take a lot of cooperation from everyone in the drift scene. just like the drivers need sponsors, sponsors need drivers.

as for not being rich dudes, ive read about a lot of the drivers in FD, and quite a few of them are rich as fuck. Dmac for example (pretty sure thats who it is) owns like 7 freaking cars.

as for rally cars "drifting" long before the japs, thats a whole different story. its a shit ton easier to get sideways in dirt because theres hardly any traction. drifting wouldnt be nearly as popular as it is, if it was easy to do. people like challenges. being successful at something difficult is much more rewarding than being good at something easy.

drifting in dirt is like riding out a wheelie on a bike. sure itll take time to learn how to do it, and do it right, but its not like its as hard as doing a backflip.

[DJPimpFlex]

Didn't read the whole thread, but I thought I would add this.

Tanner Foust Backward Entry on Vimeo (http://vimeo.com/11638856)

Blu808 Spec Front Suspension Conversion 2010 Camaro (http://www.blu808.com/Blu808-Spec-Front-Suspension-Conversion-2010-Camaro_p_350.html)

^^ Camero knuckel mod that Conrad uses. 51 of angle. American guys can do angle.

[One_love_silvia]

interesting with the knuckle mod. too bad anyone with a camero in FD is bad. not saying i could do better, but theres plenty of other people that could.

as for tanner...he never fails to impress me lol.

[deolio]

well the two kinda took off in completely different ways. drifting in japan really came from the street whereas in america barely anyone knew about it till a large organization with big sponsors "imported" it and put it on cable tv. in america it kinda "blew up" all of the sudden. i think it's just going to take some time for american drifting to catch up to japanese drifting which has had time to mature and become an accepted motorsport.

[mr_eh]

plz rename thread japanese drifting vs american sideways drag racing

[sr20d's2k]

i just want to throw my .02 in and say i dont care which one is better.

[Schassis707]

interesting with the knuckle mod. too bad anyone with a camero in FD is bad. not saying i could do better, but theres plenty of other people that could.

as for tanner...he never fails to impress me lol.


Yea tanner really is a good driver, i really like his touge run he did. If anyone else can find it and put it in, that would be a great attribution.

But the tc he drives breaks normal FD rules with the modified firewall. Most amature drifters cant even getg past regulations but these professionals can...why? Because they bring in revenue. Thats all.

[Schassis707]

I found it! Here is an amazing Tanner foust video. americans going back to the origins, but with highly modified car.

Anywho... enjoy..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHtwUr-IkHM

[drift freaq]

i


as for rally cars "drifting" long before the japs, thats a whole different story. its a shit ton easier to get sideways in dirt because theres hardly any traction. drifting wouldnt be nearly as popular as it is, if it was easy to do. people like challenges. being successful at something difficult is much more rewarding than being good at something easy.

drifting in dirt is like riding out a wheelie on a bike. sure itll take time to learn how to do it, and do it right, but its not like its as hard as doing a backflip.

That was one example and oh if you think because they just do it on dirt sometimes they don't have skill you really are clueless about Pro Rally driving.
Rhys Millen brought his full drift EVO out the RSR event back in the day and ran the full course sideways lifted! Guess what, the Japanese would not even let run as a competitor in the event because he owned everyone. The ruled his run a exhibition run.
Seriously dude, you are 19, unless you are out racing now, you have not a clue as to the skill level of Pro Rally driving.
Or the skill level of Super Modified drivers who push 750 HP 700LB cars around a track completely sideways and passing each other in drift.

Like I said before I am not trying to hate on the Japanese I have mad respect for a lot of them. They are excellent drifters. Though to say they invented the concept, to say they are the only ones in the world that can do it well?

Well that is speaking out of shear ignorance of this types and history of motor sports in general.

seriously take a trip to Finland and watch the Finnish drivers. There is another country that turns out drivers that can drift like no tomorrow. The only difference is they either go into Pro Rally or Formula One.

Oh and I would pretty much say most any F1 driver could drift really well if he chose too. They are the best drivers in the World.

[ericcastro]

So many of you are so wrong in here.

To statements about Japanese not using V8's to the fact that someone said Japanese dont brake check.

Shit is so wrong its laughable.

I also think a lot of you are comparing drifting from 5 years ago or more.
Everyone is putting on deep angle.
Maybe most of you havent seen the long entries at the last asb, or the missle cars the pros use for fun outside of contest.
What about the crazy angle in tandem within Formula D this last year??

From Aasbo last week to Mike Essa on his entries (fucking backwards in contest)




I think this argument has no ground anymore and its out dated by 5 years.

[Banana_Cute]

how come i cant drift my sister TC like that??

[theboy]

Japanese drifting = little guys/big cars

american drifting = big guys/even bigger motors

[silsx13]

So many of you are so wrong in here.

To statements about Japanese not using V8's to the fact that someone said Japanese dont brake check.

Shit is so wrong its laughable.

I also think a lot of you are comparing drifting from 5 years ago or more.
Everyone is putting on deep angle.
Maybe most of you havent seen the long entries at the last asb, or the missle cars the pros use for fun outside of contest.
What about the crazy angle in tandem within Formula D this last year??

From Aasbo last week to Mike Essa on his entries (fucking backwards in contest)




I think this argument has no ground anymore and its out dated by 5 years.


Going on that this thread and its argument could be about 5 years past due, I think the question that needs to be asked about the whole state of drifting (Japanese, American, etc.) in general is:

Evolution OR Regression?

What say you all?

[Wake]

I only read like half the first page of this BS but its really really simple.

Japan = Technique

America = Power

so The result is more power and higher speeds on easier tracks in America.

Japanese start with smaller, lower powered cars on tighter more technical tracks. Resulting in different driving styles and the Japanese being more technically sound and better at adapting to new tracks.

I mean seriously have any of you ever seen gunsai touge or kartland?
One is for bicycle racing and one is for go karts. try learning to drift on one of those.


There are also societal differences to consider between us and Japan. One being the fact that the drifters over there usually started as motorcycle guys, thats why they were already hanging out on the twistys, then the cops started harrassing groups of people on bikes so they switched to cars.
And you also have to remember that they are suuuper polite in japan as opposed to the assholes here.
In america we each drive like we own the road and nobody else has a right to be on it.
What Im saying is if people in japan see people drifting on a public road they will just wait. Whereas in America, if some fucking bloated soccer mom sees me drifting in a completely empty parking lot she going to hop on her high horse and call the cops because Im putting her kids in the back seat at danger while she drives and talks on her phone.









aaaaaand ASB is the savior of American drifting, All american events should copy brian.

[fckillerbee]

I invented All Star Bash to try and keep drifting cool.

and one day brian...i will attend....just when "i" think my car is cool enough for asb.

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s70/davidhamburg/184250_186185651418435_100000810058466_372356_5151 212_n.jpg?t=1299010631

and castro..i'm talking about the respectable drivers not brake checking the fuck. Team burst...you don't see those guys purposely slamming on the brakes to fuck up someone behind them. Now toyo tires on the other hand...that's different. Anything to win.

And for the record...vaughn gitten is an amazing driver....so is tanner, aasbo, pawlak....they just got a full ride to drive. I'm sure if they could choose, Gitten would drive something else, pawlak would drive a rotary, aasbo would rock another import, and tanner would drive something that "should be hard" to drive. That's why he converted a fwd tc....he made the chassis work. That right there is impressive, to take an origianally fwd car, and modify it soooo much, to make it top class in drifting. That is fucking amazing.

and yes castro....we are talking about d1 5 years ago...cause now...money too has gotten too much. Lets make asb legit huh!

[North]

I'm siding with Drift Freaq and ericcastro on this one, and the Evolution/Regression comment was spot on as well...

I'll add a few comments too. First, the reason cats like DMac, Rhys, etc have money, multiple cars, etc. is because they don't rely solely on drifting as their income. DMac has MCN Motorsports (his shop in Ireland) to put extra money in his pocket, and Rhys comes from a racing family/background, he does Rally, Hill Climb, etc. That's just to name a few.

To call JR a sellout is retarded. If you have companies like Ford, Falken and others backing you, dropping names when giving interviews isn't a big deal. The money and R&D to build a car like his doesn't come out of thin air. And whoever said that if you put some of the Americans and the Japanese drivers together, and that the Japanese drivers would always come out on top obviously didn't pay attention to the last 2 times D1 was at Irwindale when JR was killing it. Dude has more heart and dedication to the motorsport than most, and is always representing drifting in a positive manner.

Another thing is saying that FD is killing drifting because of the big V8s and money being thrown around. D1 is no different. Kuroi was pushing a 600hp RB26 back when Ueo and Yoshioka were still rocking 180~something hp 86's. And 800hp out of Saito's Chaser is more than I've seen any FD car have, let's not even mention the 1000+hp Laurel Kumakubo's been building... The money hungry aspect of D1 part of the bigger whole as to why Inada and Tsuchiya left D1 and are creating a new series, you've had to notice the sponsor's list that's identical on EVERY car that competes in D1... Some of you are just throwing things out at FD when D1's been doing the same for years, but either you're too blind/biased to realize it or are just naive.

Finally, it's true that when you see a lot of the big names in D1 that they're excellent drivers, no doubt about it. But you also need to take into account that guys like Nomuken, Orido, Taniguchi, etc have been drifting for going on almost 10-15+ years now. And all this about "massive angle" etc. is just for show; If you've ever seen how they drive on the touge (and I've lived in Japan and experienced it), it's not how they drive. Massive angle and backwards entries aren't the safest, fastest or smartest things on barely lit roads where there's not much room to maneuver and mistakes could send you flying off into the darkness.

Just food for thought....

[Wake]

Leave it to the old guys to shut this thread down lol


Its amazing how different the opinions are between +/- 25 years old.

[ericcastro]

I'm siding with Drift Freaq and ericcastro on this one, and the Evolution/Regression comment was spot on as well...

I'll add a few comments too. First, the reason cats like DMac, Rhys, etc have money, multiple cars, etc. is because they don't rely solely on drifting as their income. DMac has MCN Motorsports (his shop in Ireland) to put extra money in his pocket, and Rhys comes from a racing family/background, he does Rally, Hill Climb, etc. That's just to name a few.

To call JR a sellout is retarded. If you have companies like Ford, Falken and others backing you, dropping names when giving interviews isn't a big deal. The money and R&D to build a car like his doesn't come out of thin air. And whoever said that if you put some of the Americans and the Japanese drivers together, and that the Japanese drivers would always come out on top obviously didn't pay attention to the last 2 times D1 was at Irwindale when JR was killing it. Dude has more heart and dedication to the motorsport than most, and is always representing drifting in a positive manner.

Another thing is saying that FD is killing drifting because of the big V8s and money being thrown around. D1 is no different. Kuroi was pushing a 600hp RB26 back when Ueo and Yoshioka were still rocking 180~something hp 86's. And 800hp out of Saito's Chaser is more than I've seen any FD car have, let's not even mention the 1000+hp Laurel Kumakubo's been building... The money hungry aspect of D1 part of the bigger whole as to why Inada and Tsuchiya left D1 and are creating a new series, you've had to notice the sponsor's list that's identical on EVERY car that competes in D1... Some of you are just throwing things out at FD when D1's been doing the same for years, but either you're too blind/biased to realize it or are just naive.

Finally, it's true that when you see a lot of the big names in D1 that they're excellent drivers, no doubt about it. But you also need to take into account that guys like Nomuken, Orido, Taniguchi, etc have been drifting for going on almost 10-15+ years now. And all this about "massive angle" etc. is just for show; If you've ever seen how they drive on the touge (and I've lived in Japan and experienced it), it's not how they drive. Massive angle and backwards entries aren't the safest, fastest or smartest things on barely lit roads where there's not much room to maneuver and mistakes could send you flying off into the darkness.

Just food for thought....

great post

And maybe you guys are watching to much "media", and not drifting.
Heres some of those FD guys in their own cars having fun.
eBJBCFrB5RQ

And speaking of Formula D,
Check out these runs from last weeks FD,
Watch how hard Tanner and Aasbo throw those cars in.
And those Aasbo/Forsberg runs are so good !!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=-AAHVSWGVUY


Last ASB, we got entries
(and this is a straight, not the long curved track entries in Japan.)
pLlX6GK05bc

Also, I think everyone talking about Japan must not have watched Road Atlanta Entries this year.
AIW7OooZKEE

[ericcastro]

Leave it to the old guys to shut this thread down lol


Funny, I called it talking sense, lmao!



Oh yeah, Rhys and Tanner make all their money doing stunt driving for commercials.
FD doesnt pay much.
Hence the reason Tanner quit, so he could have a successful career in the biz and own more then a 3 bedroom house in the OC, lol.

[One_love_silvia]

That was one example and oh if you think because they just do it on dirt sometimes they don't have skill you really are clueless about Pro Rally driving.
Rhys Millen brought his full drift EVO out the RSR event back in the day and ran the full course sideways lifted! Guess what, the Japanese would not even let run as a competitor in the event because he owned everyone. The ruled his run a exhibition run.
Seriously dude, you are 19, unless you are out racing now, you have not a clue as to the skill level of Pro Rally driving.
Or the skill level of Super Modified drivers who push 750 HP 700LB cars around a track completely sideways and passing each other in drift.

Like I said before I am not trying to hate on the Japanese I have mad respect for a lot of them. They are excellent drifters. Though to say they invented the concept, to say they are the only ones in the world that can do it well?

Well that is speaking out of shear ignorance of this types and history of motor sports in general.

seriously take a trip to Finland and watch the Finnish drivers. There is another country that turns out drivers that can drift like no tomorrow. The only difference is they either go into Pro Rally or Formula One.

Oh and I would pretty much say most any F1 driver could drift really well if he chose too. They are the best drivers in the World.
In no way did I say rally drivers have no skill. Those guys have immense skill. Hell. Ken block and tanner both do rally in their rockstar cars don't they? All I said, was that its much easier to loose traction in dirt than on gravel. And I am well aware that japs aren't the only ones who can drift well. But its too hard to talk abt all the other countries that drift, because its so international now.

I mean, aasbo is one of my favorite drivers. The way he throws the car sideways with so much
angle shows that he can be competitive, and have a great time doing so. He knows he takes chances when he goes for big angles, but he does it because its what the sports all abt. Its much more impressive when he's way more sideways than the guy he's chasing, yet he's still door to door with him.

Tanner is another one of my fav. Drifters due to how gd agressive he is. He's always got a shit ton of smoke behind him nd kissing the qrt panels of the lead cars.

Forsberg is another favorite. He's a great drifter. A two time champ at that. But the main thing that attracted my vote for him, is how cool and down to earth he is. When a friend of mine and I met him, he was the chillest guy there. I feel that he really represents the grass root level drifters the most. Sure he has a huge sponsorship with nos, but he's one of the only fd drivers who has an only drifting background. And just by meeting him u can totally tell he's in love with drifting and does it for the fun of it. Not for the fame.

[Wake]

So what was this thread about again?

[North]

Actually, the vast majority of the drivers in FD come from a drifting-only background. The guys like Rhys, Tanner, Sam, and Stephen Verdier are the minority.

[singlecamslam]

The video of formula D guys driving their own cars is SO much more interesting to watch than FD. They really need to do more shit like that, and televise it. There was only 1 V8 haha.

[ericcastro]

yeah, but thats how any sport is when the sponsors, money, and the need to win are involved.
Cant blame em.
they arent exactly rolling in the dough, ya gotta win, or your out on your ass.

I think that there used to be a difference, but its pretty much gone now.
Drifting is drifting is drifting.
The Japanese are putting V8's in their cars too.
Everyones for steep angle and knuckle kits.
Its still a shit ton of fun :)

I was trying to find the video of forsberg in his missle, jumping the hump at balcony on his inititation, its pretty rad.

[One_love_silvia]

The video of formula D guys driving their own cars is SO much more interesting to watch than FD. They really need to do more shit like that, and televise it. There was only 1 V8 haha.
Exactly this. Its not that they can't do it. Its that they for some reason don't do it. Sure its dangerous, but its flippin awesome. I'm not asking them to make backward entries while tandeming. I'm simply asking that they focus a little more on angle and a little less on speed. The majority of the time, they're just barely sideways and going 90mph. Why not knock the speed down 10-15 mph and increase the angle a bit more? Sure its fun to be competitive, but its much more exciting to see 2 guys tandeming with mad angle door to door, than it is to watch them be door to door, with hardly enough angle.

edit: just got home to watch the vids. been posting on my phone. and my gawd that aasbo vs. forsberg run was godly! thats the kind of drifting im talking about! high intensity, agressive driving, great angles everywhere, and still driving fast while doing so. now im not saying they should rip eachothers cars apart every run like those two did (lolz) but make it more interesting to watch atleast. u can tell when theyre drifting for fun and when theyre drifting strictly competitively. the fun drifting is much more impressive/exciting, and im sure the judges would feel the same way.

side note: i think FD really needs a new announcer...or he needs to drink a few nos's before FD starts. comparing his "oh ho ho ho" on tanners backwards entry to ANY kind of drift or entry in japan makes him seem extremely boring. and he sounds like santa claus.

[deolio]

yeah, the announcer of fd sounds like such a douche. totally kills it for me. i wish they were like the D1 announcers/judges who crack jokes and laugh the entire time.

[singlecamslam]

yeah, but thats how any sport is when the sponsors, money, and the need to win are involved.
Cant blame em.
they arent exactly rolling in the dough, ya gotta win, or your out on your ass.

I think that there used to be a difference, but its pretty much gone now.
Drifting is drifting is drifting.
The Japanese are putting V8's in their cars too.
Everyones for steep angle and knuckle kits.
Its still a shit ton of fun :)

I was trying to find the video of forsberg in his missle, jumping the hump at balcony on his inititation, its pretty rad.


I bet soon they will put different classes or something like that. But i understand the money and media involved. BUT HOLY SHIT, that video was awesome.

[Perfect Balance]

At a non professional level, Japan is much higher.

I don't really like the current state of professional drifting in either Japan or US.

Professional drifting was best back in the early days of D1.

UsYtDfLtvrA

Back when drift cars were badass street cars and it was about speed and smoothness instead of angle and smoke. IIRC you can actually lose points now if your initiation isn't aggressive enough, which I feel is completely stupid. Someone might correct me on this, but I'm pretty sure I read that somewhere. It seems the general trend on this forum is less speed and more angle, but I like it more back then. I haven't really done any really high angle drifting myself, but from riding in cars I've always gotten a bigger rush with more speed than more angle.

I think it takes more skill to say, be as smooth at Taniguchi, instead of a backwards entry. We've seen a bunch of people pull that off since the Kawabata video, but I have yet to see someone be this smooth (not the best video, just the first decent one I found):

k_7Ote4-ruQ

Also, as deolio said, the announcers really kill it here in America.

[Wake]

So basically we have established that any corporate form of drifting blows for the most part. And even the biggest sponsored largest engined guys still know how to have fun when given the opportunity.

So what it sounds like is that someone (in CA preferably) needs to open a drift dedicated track where pros and amateurs alike can come and fuck around to their hearts content. And some people to film em.
Bam! no more civil drift war.

more pros having fun.
9510390

[RALLIART15]

I agree that the states needs a drift dedicated facility. I didn't really know what drift was when living there but now I live in Japan with my wife in the Navy and love the sport. I been at it less then a year but with the availability of track and mountain I have progressed fairly quickly.
I have no desire to compare countries against eachother some of the best guys I know are from the UK and Australia and here in japan. They are all cool as hell, fast as shit and produceore angle the physics can explain. They do it with a variety of powerplants and car and no one here cares what you drive or who you are or where you come from we all just drift and have fun.
Of everything goes according to my plan/dream/goal I may be the one who opens a drift dedicated facility. At least I hope I get the opportunity to do so.

The only real question that needs to be asked is;

Who loves drift?

Edit: posted from my iPhone in Machida Japan sitting in an Upgarage buying more car parts.

I DO!

[chiboy002]

NORIYARO » NISSAN WEEK AND THE NEW D1GP: Some new info about Tsuchiya and Dai’s drift series (http://noriyaro.com/?p=6213#more-6213)

[usdm180sx]

When drifting started becoming popular in the states the Japanese were running n/a and turbo 4 cylinder motors. Maybe an rb or 2. If you took your foot off the throttle at high boost you lost power and torque. The Americans added v8 swaps which took away from the finesse required to run lower torque motors.

[ericcastro]

I bet soon they will put different classes or something like that. But i understand the money and media involved. BUT HOLY SHIT, that video was awesome.
There has been talk of that, but there really isnt enough people to support that.
Plus, TopDrift, XDC, those are basically different classes of drivers.

At a non professional level, Japan is much higher.
Really?
What about Rhys drifting that skinny ass fucking hill in Brazil?
What about Tanner drifting Mulholland drive?


Someone might correct me on this, but I'm pretty sure I read that somewhere. It seems the general trend on this forum is less speed and more angle, but I like it more back then. I haven't really done any really high angle drifting myself, but from riding in cars I've always gotten a bigger rush with more speed than more angle.
Its about lots of speed and hella angle on entry.
With tons of angle, you can go much faster then if you came in wiht a more shallow angle.
So steeper angle means you are actually going faster at initiation.


I think it takes more skill to say, be as smooth at Taniguchi, instead of a backwards entry. We've seen a bunch of people pull that off since the Kawabata video, but I have yet to see someone be this smooth (not the best video, just the first decent one I found):

How smooth are skateboarders in a contest run??
How smooth are they on video when its just them getting numerous tries??

Get my drift? lol



BTW, the green car video is a fucking mess.
Guys entry is all over the place and out of control sloppy.
Then its the weakest angle the rest of the clip.



Also, as deolio said, the announcers really kill it here in America.

to be devils advocate.
He isnt speaking to us.
He's speaking to the normal people of america and new drift fans.
And who else is gonna be able to talk for hours on end, without a break, and not cuss?


Not that I have the answers, I dont think there is one.
Just showing the other side of it.
And for me personally, I think american drifting is now passing Japan up.
(besides cool looking cars)

When drifting started becoming popular in the states the Japanese were running n/a and turbo 4 cylinder motors. Maybe an rb or 2. If you took your foot off the throttle at high boost you lost power and torque. The Americans added v8 swaps which took away from the finesse required to run lower torque motors.

Before Jamie Thomas was doing 15 stair handrails on his skateboard, people were happy doing smooth tricks on 6 stair hand rails.
Jamie came in with speed and power and blew that shit out of the water and showed people what is possible.
Now its the norm to do technical and smooth tricks on 15 stair rails.

Right now we have had formula D entries of over 100mph !!!!
And now they added the angle.
People are really pitching their cars into initiations.
Getting closest to the wall is all the rage.
Door on Door tandem is big.

I think we are now paving the way, and its only gonna get bigger and badder !!



BTW, whats american drifting?
Does taht not include half of Formula D, thats not American? lol

[Perfect Balance]

Really?
What about Rhys drifting that skinny ass fucking hill in Brazil?
What about Tanner drifting Mulholland drive? I did say at a non professional level. Both of those guys are professional racing drivers.
Really though:

DCK_Vm6NF4A

Skip to 5:30. That > what either of those guys did.



Its about lots of speed and hella angle on entry.
With tons of angle, you can go much faster then if you came in wiht a more shallow angle.
So steeper angle means you are actually going faster at initiation. True. More angle allows for a higher entry speed since the car scrubs more speed during the entry and corner as opposed to going in straighter. The actual corner speed would be less though simply because the more the car is sliding, the less grip the tires have to offer. It's not a big difference, probably less than 10mph, but I think it's noticeable.



How smooth are skateboarders in a contest run??
How smooth are they on video when its just them getting numerous tries?? I see what you're saying, people are under a lot more pressure when they're in a competition, but Taniguchi is noticeably smoother than other drivers in both situations. Where Taniguchi is very smooth in solo runs and less smooth in battles, other drivers are less smooth in solo runs and usually quite frantic in battles.


BTW, the green car video is a fucking mess.
Guys entry is all over the place and out of control sloppy.
Then its the weakest angle the rest of the clip. That's not the best video, and like I said the trend here seems to favor more angle, which personally I don't care much for it. I appreciate the skill involved, and it's very cool looking when done right, I just prefer drifting where you're going "damn, that's fast." over that.

That video was also 10 years ago. I was just using it as an example of the type of drifting I like. I might be alone in my way of thinking, but I'm just giving my 2 cents. I like that style more, that's all.




to be devils advocate.
He isnt speaking to us.
He's speaking to the normal people of america and new drift fans.
And who else is gonna be able to talk for hours on end, without a break, and not cuss? Yeah but it's still annoying to listen to regardless of the reasoning behind it.

EDIT: Found a good video of what I mean. These cars are hauling ass.

yDq0EUaNexU

[Wake]

you realize your talking about people hauling ass at the fastest track in japan and possibly the world? Right?


I love that Naoki Nakamura is still getting arrested for street drifting. That makes me love burst even more.

[One_love_silvia]

/love team orange :3

[Schassis707]

So basically we have established that any corporate form of drifting blows for the most part. And even the biggest sponsored largest engined guys still know how to have fun when given the opportunity.

So what it sounds like is that someone (in CA preferably) needs to open a drift dedicated track where pros and amateurs alike can come and fuck around to their hearts content. And some people to film em.
Bam! no more civil drift war.

more pros having fun.
9510390


YES!! And the track needs to be in norcal, open 24 hours... As you, singlecamslam and anyone els on NCD know that valejo? is all we have lmao.

[Wake]

shit i know people with acerage.

I just cant afford to build a track. Unless everyone want to come dig shit out and pour cement.

[kris]

wow 3 pages of lots of crap. None of this stuff matters....get out drive stop talking done.

[ericcastro]

DCK_Vm6NF4A

Skip to 5:30. That > what either of those guys did.

Tanner and rhys went a lot faster.

but that vid is pretty good.
There are a couple more like that out there.(really good hachi one somewhere)
I think there was a small period in time, before drifting was blowing up, when touge was actually cool.
Prolly sometime after wangan was out.
Im personally not into all the street credit though


[/QUOTE]
yDq0EUaNexU[/QUOTE]

Notice the only cars not struggling are straight 6 turbo's, the V8 of Japan, lol


Taniguchi may be smooth, but your using a single driver as an example of a nation. And we have different driver personalities.
Despite the bro hate JR gets, the guy dont take no shit out there and its awesome. Brake check him and he's liable to just run ya over, lol.

Tanner always seemed pretty smooth to me.
And Im not even a fan of the guy, just sayin, lol.



Think this years tire rules should make FD even more interesting.

[singlecamslam]

I think the hate boils down from this. People want to see cars like theirs, (not all crazy modified) they want to see sr20 doing it big with not that mods. Not v'8s going crazy.

[Wake]

I wish I had as much street cred as ericcastro has 'net cred.

If you keep talking all sexy like that Im gonna have to hump your leg when I see you eric.



I honestly think that the real problem is that some of these kids were just born too late.

[Schassis707]

shit i know people with acerage.

I just cant afford to build a track. Unless everyone want to come dig shit out and pour cement.


I know people here in norcal will do labor for that cause. Make name get stock, get investors and use money to maintain it and expand.

[Schassis707]

start off with small skid pad and go from there

[drift freaq]

I think the hate boils down from this. People want to see cars like theirs, (not all crazy modified) they want to see sr20 doing it big with not that mods. Not v'8s going crazy.

As much as I like SR's here is the fact. From a Pro Drifting perspective there are a lot of modern engines that can be run. Engines that are cheaper to run in the long run. VQ's and
Yup V8's LOL .
Ever notice that the most popular non SR swap is now a LS1. Ever notice how many people are doing it.
Even the street guys are opting to run V8's because they are closer to being legal with a LS1 than they are with a SR.

Its common sense. SR's are imported. SR parts for the most part need to be imported. Current exchange rates with the weakness of the American dollar adds to this.
Turbo engines while fun in dry heat area's tend to be more prone to failure. Without doing lots of extra shit to take care of that.

Shit even Nissan's FIA GT1 GTR's are running V8's. LOL

Something to be said about the reliability.

I know Teddy, you hate V8's . Sorry dude the reality is they are here and they are not exactly going away. LOL

[90hatchie]

So what it sounds like is that someone (in CA preferably) needs to open a drift dedicated track where pros and amateurs alike can come and fuck around to their hearts content. And some people to film em.
Bam! no more civil drift war.

more pros having fun.


it exists.....on the east coast
clubloose

[Wake]

Whole lotta good that does us left coasters.

[Toi]

Finally, it's true that when you see a lot of the big names in D1 that they're excellent drivers, no doubt about it. But you also need to take into account that guys like Nomuken, Orido, Taniguchi, etc have been drifting for going on almost 10-15+ years now. And all this about "massive angle" etc. is just for show; If you've ever seen how they drive on the touge (and I've lived in Japan and experienced it), it's not how they drive. Massive angle and backwards entries aren't the safest, fastest or smartest things on barely lit roads where there's not much room to maneuver and mistakes could send you flying off into the darkness.

Just food for thought....


There is togue RACING then there is Port Drifting, totally different my man not arguing with you just saying. I have been here in the land of the Rising Sun since 96. Seen and played with all aspects of it ran from mapo, chilled at Lawsons, or on Okinawa it was Ciniga's little restaurant.

On the port it is massive angles (to include running the front of the car under an 18 wheeler trailer unhitched), last time I watched JR, it was all about speed which I do like speed but there was no wall kissing no off track and no jumping (I do love Ebisu), it looked more like togue racing TANDEM hauling ass little angle, and it looked like they were fighting for first place like there was a finish line. That is NOT what the sport is about, that is what TOGUE is about!

Anyway.....

The new series will hopefully return the sport back to what it should be, destruction in the form of beauty!

[FantasticVoyages]

Kazama is so good.

Fact is no matter where something originated, once it spreads wide enough everyone will add thier flavor to it. Drifting isn't finished simmering yet.

[ericcastro]

I wish I had as much street cred as ericcastro has 'net cred.
.
I just think logically, then talk.
(and spell like shit, lol)
most people agree with thought out logic.

it exists.....on the east coast
clubloose
lucky.
east coast looks like fun.


and dave, your right.
A LS1 engine is just so much easier for us to get here.
Why would i order an engine from another country when i can get one down the street that has more HP? and is newer, lol.




Is Jesse Streeter the answer?
American, Living in Japan, and killing it?
dVRwMLc8_zI

CwThZOUE630

[silsx13]

As much as I like SR's here is the fact. From a Pro Drifting perspective there are a lot of modern engines that can be run. Engines that are cheaper to run in the long run. VQ's and
Yup V8's LOL .
Ever notice that the most popular non SR swap is now a LS1. Ever notice how many people are doing it.
Even the street guys are opting to run V8's because they are closer to being legal with a LS1 than they are with a SR.

Its common sense. SR's are imported. SR parts for the most part need to be imported. Current exchange rates with the weakness of the American dollar adds to this.
Turbo engines while fun in dry heat area's tend to be more prone to failure. Without doing lots of extra shit to take care of that.

I know Teddy, you hate V8's . Sorry dude the reality is they are here and they are not exactly going away. LOL


Hit the nail on the head. Considering that if you get popped and have an SR swap, there's more hell to pay vs. just having an LS1 swap....plus cops might start gawking if they see good ol' American iron sitting in a Japanese chassis.

And from cost standpoint, I can see the LS1 being less in the long term concerning maintenance, parts, etc.

Btw Dave- What can you say about VQ swaps? Good bang for the buck or bust?




and dave, your right.
A LS1 engine is just so much easier for us to get here.
Why would i order an engine from another country when i can get one down the street that has more HP? and is newer, lol.

Is Jesse Streeter the answer?
American, Living in Japan, and killing it?




Hit the nail on the head again concerning LS1 swaps...

The "Answer"???? Are we now giving nicknames to drifters as it's done with NBA, NFL or NHL players??? haha....

[VQZ33]

this is a real video of japanese drifters vs american drifters.... I'm not talking about millions of corporation dollars at work for those drift machines... this is stock car vs stock car enjoy gentlemen and let the truth be known...

YouTube - USA vs JAPAN - Drifting the Miata - Part 1/3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdbRPEx67zo)

YouTube - USA vs JAPAN - Drifting the Miata - Part 2/3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iS9DkAsP2u8&feature=related)

YouTube - USA vs JAPAN - Drifting the Miata - Part 3/3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QcZBcSNVqA&feature=related)

[ericcastro]

The "Answer"???? Are we now giving nicknames to drifters as it's done with NBA, NFL or NHL players??? haha....

Is Ross Petty the "slip knot" of drifting, or the "bob marley" then? lol

[drift freaq]

Hit the nail on the head. Considering that if you get popped and have an SR swap, there's more hell to pay vs. just having an LS1 swap....plus cops might start gawking if they see good ol' American iron sitting in a Japanese chassis.

And from cost standpoint, I can see the LS1 being less in the long term concerning maintenance, parts, etc.

Btw Dave- What can you say about VQ swaps? Good bang for the buck or bust?





Hit the nail on the head again concerning LS1 swaps...

The "Answer"???? Are we now giving nicknames to drifters as it's done with NBA, NFL or NHL players??? haha....

Well Jon, VQ swaps are now becoming extremely affordable. With the flashing of ECU's wiring has become as easy as LS1 swaps. Costs have dropped dramatically as well.
LS1 swaps are still more popular because of the whole mystique and the fact that a lot of people have not realized how cheap the VQ swap is becoming.

Oh and the Answer? hahahahaha.

this is a real video of japanese drifters vs american drifters.... I'm not talking about millions of corporation dollars at work for those drift machines... this is stock car vs stock car enjoy gentlemen and let the truth be known...

YouTube - USA vs JAPAN - Drifting the Miata - Part 1/3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdbRPEx67zo)

YouTube - USA vs JAPAN - Drifting the Miata - Part 2/3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iS9DkAsP2u8&feature=related)

YouTube - USA vs JAPAN - Drifting the Miata - Part 3/3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QcZBcSNVqA&feature=related)

Hmmm , Ok let me tear this apart for shits and giggles...
First you take two American competition drivers one who is quite good(Rhys)one who is not bad (Ken Gushi) and then through in a Model/driver.

Then you take one of Japan's top drifters. Who most likely owns and drives a Miata or an AE86 on regular basis. I.E. familiarity with short wheel base cars.

Now lets get back to the those pesky Americans, Was Rhys really taking it seriously? Does he have experience in short wheel base cars? Same goes for Ken. Don't get me started on Verena , lol.

Would this be called fair? It could be if we knew the back story but we don't. I have outlined the scenario of the back story that is most likely true.

Is drifting a shorter wheel base car harder? Oh shit yes, Miata's are right up there with MR2's as some of the hardest cars to drift.

Does this prove Kazama is better? Maybe yes, that is a maybe. Why? Given the fact that Kazama has been driving longer than Gushi, Possibly longer than Millen,. Most likely has a lot more experience with under powered short wheel base cars.

I started out in Datsun 510's drifting them before the term was even coined as motorsports event. Can we say short wheelbase car? Can we say underpowered? Try drifting a short wheelbase underpowered car. Its a completely different ballgame.

Oh and 240Z's are not much better in the short wheel base department, they sure are a blast with the extra power oh and yes they do like to swap ends.

Seriously 510,S30, AE86, Miata, will all challenge you to be a better drifter.

I may just build a drift.... No better not say that, then everyone else will get the idea. LOL

Oh and yes 240sx's do make not so good drifters look decent and ok drifters great. Its a very forgiving platform that lends itself to drifting.



So I say that little You Tube segment is more or less Kazama grandstanding Japanese drifting.
Nothing wrong with that.

I would like to see him run up against Steve Kinser. Now I know a lot of you are saying WTF who the hell is Steve Kinser. Steve Kinser is just one of the best Super Modified drivers out there.

I would be willing to bet, even in an underpowered short wheelbase car Steve Kinser could give Kazama a real run for his money.

Though like I already said that video is not exactly scientifically accurate for the sake of shear accuracy. To many unknown variables that were not explained or illuminated.

[VQZ33]

i had a 350z at one point... I hated the vq motor i literally thought it was absolute trash imho... therefore i sold it and got an s-chassis... besides that why would u want a v-6? a naturally unbalanced motor. to me its not a smooth motor at all although the torque down low was nice... but u have a s-chassis ur not lugging around a 3300-3500 lb car theres no need for all that torque unless u have a tire sponsor xD

[Wake]

So in other words the VQ is a perfect swap for a S-chassis drifter wanting to be competitive

[VQZ33]

my above statement disagrees as drifting is about momentum and weight transfer not torque and hp...

[Wake]

And exactly how would torque not help momentum and weight transfer?

[drift freaq]

i had a 350z at one point... I hated the vq motor i literally thought it was absolute trash imho... therefore i sold it and got an s-chassis... besides that why would u want a v-6? a naturally unbalanced motor. to me its not a smooth motor at all although the torque down low was nice... but u have a s-chassis ur not lugging around a 3300-3500 lb car theres no need for all that torque unless u have a tire sponsor xD

Wow, unbalanced engine? Ah no its actually a quite smooth engine. V6's are far from unbalanced engine's. Oh and VQHR's are pretty dope engines.

Oh and S chassis actually is a great platform for 300whp engine. It handles the HP quite well.
In fact most people with SR's push for around those numbers anyways. Here and in Japan.
So that really contradicts your argument for the VQ not being and ideal powerplant for the car. Seeing as its stock at close to or just over 300HP which puts it at 235 whp. Hmm and extra torque for faster entry. Sounds like a winner to me. LOL

Oh and really you are going to try and compare a KA to a VQ? If that is what you are insinuating.
KA's are not exactly balanced smooth engines. LOL

Oh and yes I do feel the VQ is a good swap for an S chassis drifter wanting to be competitive.

my above statement disagrees as drifting is about momentum and weight transfer not torque and hp...
LOL Torque helps create momentum, Torque created over a period of time and transferred through ones drivetrain creates momentum, which can be used in weight transfer.
HP keeps that created momentum going.

This is simple Physics we are talking about.

[VQZ33]

my above statement disagrees as drifting is about momentum and weight transfer not torque and hp... ex i should be able to pull the same angle from a stock ka 240sx as a swapped 240 with a vq... what makes someone more competitive cause they have a vq in there 240? if thats the case they need to improve there driving not there engine catch my drift? i seem to drift and get sideways with lots of angle plenty long enough with a stock red top... i dunno in my opinion my perspective is since ive been on boards for years and years is that Americans want power but when they get to a low powered car like the miata (in my earlier post i had a video) they cant seem to do it... i call that a lack of skill and finesse... u cannot make up skill, experience and finesse with horsepower and torque. Thats why the DK is so good he learned on a underpowered ae86 therefore improving driver skill...

[FantasticVoyages]

While outlaw dudes are decent drivers, they only turn left. No way is he linking turns with Kazama. He will get dookied on. Be seriouse.

[VQZ33]

Wow, unbalanced engine? Ah no its actually a quite smooth engine. V6's are far from unbalanced engine's. Oh and VQHR's are pretty dope engines.

Oh and S chassis actually is a great platform for 300whp engine. It handles the HP quite well.
In fact most people with SR's push for around those numbers anyways. Here and in Japan.
So that really contradicts your argument for the VQ not being and ideal powerplant for the car. Seeing as its stock at close to or just over 300HP which puts it at 235 whp. Hmm and extra torque for faster entry. Sounds like a winner to me. LOL

Oh and really you are going to try and compare a KA to a VQ? If that is what you are insinuating.
KA's are not exactly balanced smooth engines. LOL

Oh and yes I do feel the VQ is a good swap for an S chassis drifter wanting to be competitive.

im simply referring to any firing order of any v-6 engine, as v6 engine are more naturally unbalance compared to a inline 4, inline 6, v-8, just think of the rotating assembly of the engine... and im not comparing vq to ka in any type of manner im saying u should be able to... if u know ur car and if u are indeed a good driver to keep up with that person wile in a tandem cause that extra power is only gonna help u so much... the point im making is that u dont need a shit ton of power to keep up with the big boys.... ive never had a problem with my stock red top keeping up witha ls1 240 or a vq 240 in a tandem and iven been around alot of them...

[Wake]

Who ever said you need a shit ton of power to be competitive?


And damn you Dave I wanted this guy to explain himself LOL

Im pretty sure eric surprised the shit out of some people at ASB with his skills with a KA. Your turning this conversation into something completely different than the original idea of the thread.

[VQZ33]

LOL Torque helps create momentum, Torque created over a period of time and transferred through ones drivetrain creates momentum, which can be used in weight transfer.
HP keeps that created momentum going.

This is simple Physics we are talking about.

why do u need more torque? u cant kick clutch, cant feint, cant shift lock? cant hit the hand brake? there are plenty of other ways to disrupt momentum and inertia... lol not trying to sound like a dick but i know all about physics cause thats my major >_<

[FantasticVoyages]

Everyone remembers Pearl Harbor...

No one remembers what happened right after that...

Japan wins.

[drift freaq]

im simply referring to any firing order of any v-6 engine, as v6 engine are more naturally unbalance compared to a inline 4, inline 6, v-8, just think of the rotating assembly of the engine... and im not comparing vq to ka in any type of manner im saying u should be able to... if u know ur car and if u are indeed a good driver to keep up with that person wile in a tandem cause that extra power is only gonna help u so much... the point im making is that u dont need a shit ton of power to keep up with the big boys.... ive never had a problem with my stock red top keeping up witha ls1 240 or a vq 240 in a tandem and iven been around alot of them...

You know what we are getting off topic here. I have already stated that short wheelbase underpowered cars are harder to drift. I have experience in them as well. Do you?
You drive a 240sx, a forgiving drift car. I am not saying that you can't drift a KA or stock SR all I am saying is a VQ is a good alternative engine.

Fact is people Turbo their KA's and most people do not keep their SR's stock, here or in Japan. All I was saying was for reliable easy power the VQ puts you in the same ballpark as modified SR's while being completely stock. Oh and VQ's actually do run quite smooth and balanced. 3 liter ones especially.

why do u need more torque? u cant kick clutch, cant feint, cant shift lock? cant hit the hand brake? there are plenty of other ways to disrupt momentum and inertia... lol not trying to sound like a dick but i know all about physics cause thats my major >_<
Because Torque is fun, Torque is acceleration, Torque gets you going for faster entries.
Dude I have been driving longer than you have been alive. You are a kid and actually yes you are making yourself out to be dick, those are your own words. Not mine.

You are also possibly absent minded! Since you say Physics is your major and you earlier completely disregarded basic Physics in your explanation. Which A: made you look completely clueless and or B: in your case severely absent minded.

Perhaps the heat of the discussion has gone to your head? LOL

Oh and I am done because our discussion of this has actually taken us off the topic of the thread.
Please try and refrain from responding because of that.

Everyone remembers Pearl Harbor...

No one remembers what happened right after that...

Japan wins.

Dude just shut the fuck up. What you wrote above has nothing to do with this thread whatsoever.
Take your political statements to Loud Noises.

[VQZ33]

3 liters are vg's btw not vq i had a 92 300zx at one point was a blast...but yea i learned to drift on a 65 vw bug (was 15) i've had my fair share of tuned cars 14 different ones to be exact... yea its weird and yes we got off topic my apologies but just so u know an sr with "upped" boost, intake exhaust and what not should make about the same power as a vq and it would still be more reliable... from a former 350z owner there not good motors and thats MY opinion u might not feel the same but theres a reason why there in the g35 fx35 altima maxima blah blah blah if pure performance was in mind they wouldnt have used the vq... dont forget the 350z was designed in san diego for U.S market and the engine was a pure donor engine... thats why u see shops in japan doing rb swaps in them because thats an engine designed to take abuse/make power...

[drift freaq]

3 liters are vg's btw not vq i had a 92 300zx at one point was a blast...but yea i learned to drift on a 65 vw bug (was 15) i've had my fair share of tuned cars 14 different ones to be exact... yea its weird and yes we got off topic my apologies but just so u know an sr with "upped" boost, intake exhaust and what not should make about the same power as a vq and it would still be more reliable... from a former 350z owner there not good motors and thats MY opinion u might not feel the same but theres a reason why there in the g35 fx35 altima maxima blah blah blah if pure performance was in mind they wouldnt have used the vq... dont forget the 350z was designed in san diego for U.S market and the engine was a pure donor engine... thats why u see shops in japan doing rb swaps in them because thats an engine designed to take abuse/make power...

Dude you really are clueless and desire to make yourself look like an idiot. There are 3 liter VQ's here and in Japan. You really need to learn more about Nissan engines.

Oh and like said earlier Nismo's current and since 2004-5 6 cylinder of choice is the VQ30DETT do the research or shut up because now you are just making yourself look more ignorant.
Oh and the HR is no way shape or form a donor engine.

Oh and don't start down the RB is the shiznit road. yadayadayada.

Again this is completely off topic from the thread. Please stop.

[Schassis707]

You know what we are getting off topic here. I have already stated that short wheelbase underpowered cars are harder to drift. I have experience in them as well. Do you?
You drive a 240sx, a forgiving drift car. I am not saying that you can't drift a KA or stock SR all I am saying is a VQ is a good alternative engine.

Fact is people Turbo their KA's and most people do not keep their SR's stock, here or in Japan. All I was saying was for reliable easy power the VQ puts you in the same ballpark as modified SR's while being completely stock. Oh and VQ's actually do run quite smooth and balanced. 3 liter ones especially.


Because Torque is fun, Torque is acceleration, Torque gets you going for faster entries.
Dude I have been driving longer than you have been alive. You are a kid and actually yes you are making yourself out to be dick, those are your own words. Not mine.

You are also possibly absent minded! Since you say Physics is your major and you earlier completely disregarded basic Physics in your explanation. Which A: made you look completely clueless and or B: in your case severely absent minded.

Perhaps the heat of the discussion has gone to your head? LOL

Oh and I am done because our discussion of this has actually taken us off the topic of the thread.
Please try and refrain from responding because of that.



Dude just shut the fuck up. What you wrote above has nothing to do with this thread whatsoever.
Take your political statements to Loud Noises.

Completly agree with EVERYTHING dave has said! I wonder how many people really have tried to even slide around let alone drift in a miata. Like dave said it is hardly bareable with such little wheel base. The car likes to just stay corrected. Even in my buddies boosted miata the initial power was easy to slide around but to hold them it takes alot of practice.

And to the VQ dude, the reason why you hate the vq was more than likely the fact it was a heavier car and pretty much the same hp/ weight ratio as a stock well running 240. My buddy had a g35 and well didnt feel much better than my 240 because of the weight.

Momentum is created from torque and with a VQ in the s-chassis you are also making it easier with a little extra weight up front. Thats another reason LSX is more common because it weighs just about the same as a KA.

[Teddy]

All I see in this thread is blah blah blah.

[drift freaq]

All I see in this thread is blah blah blah.

that's all you ever see Teddy. LOL J/K could not resist man .

[FantasticVoyages]

V6 motors are actually natrually balance. Six cylinders for that matter.
The early VQ's found in Maxima's were 3.0 also.

Drift Freaq you need to simmer down now. Typing way too much. Your credibility was lost when you started talking about Outlaw drivers.

[VQZ33]

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f343/cb_skyline_03/350zdyno1copy.jpg
vq stock dyno

http://www.240sxforums.com/forums/sr20det-engines/107900-sr20det-dyno-thread.html
sr with 12lbs of boost.... i see that vq is making so much more torque....???? yea i dunno...

the vq30dett is a jgtc engine... do u have one of those...??? no then wtf r u talking about do u know anyone with a vq30dett? nope!

agreed yes my z was heavy but im much more satisfied with a stock sr... and it feels so much more performance inspired than the vq... and so what the hr changed rods, cams and a couple other things.... does that mean its gonna hold up the same when ur keeping it at redline? no most likely not... yes they changed a few weak points of the de but the old galleries are the same the cooling channels are the same... im looking at my roomates black 08 nismo 350z right now theres a reason he only has 5k miles on it... does the engine scream performance? NO! he has a rb25 in his 240 and loves it so much more because it feels better, smoother, so many other reasons

[VQZ33]

i guess it would be easier and simpler to say i feel as though nissan made the rb and sr with a sports car in mind... now when they made the 350z and brought back the z im assuming nissan was like... ohh fuck i dont wanna make another new engine for this car lets take a engine from another car with decent torque/hp and put it in here and change a few things... where as the sr20 developed with a sports car chassis in mind and rb with a sports car chassis in mind, not to mention a cast iron block vs an aluminum block which one is more durable i dunno u know physics so u should know the properties of metals and how they react to heat and such... u tell me?

the only way i can think of the vq being better is that it make torque down at low rpm but dude honestly when im going at it im not below 4k rpm therefore whats benefit does the vq provide when u already lost half of ur torque being at high rpm's?

[drift freaq]

V6 motors are actually natrually balance. Six cylinders for that matter.
The early VQ's found in Maxima's were 3.0 also.

Drift Freaq you need to simmer down now. Typing way too much. Your credibility was lost when you started talking about Outlaw drivers.

Ah no, maybe you are binded by your own bias. I mentioned one driver. Who is badass. I really don't think you have anything to refute it. I am not really worked up either. I I am just making and proving points.

Oh and you are the one making stupid comments that have nothing to do with with anything.

When can you contribute you should. So far you have not.

Oh and VQZ33 like I already said we have gotten off topic we should refrain from posting if its not directly on topic.
I mean yes we could discuss the merits of engines but that has nothing to do with this thread at this point.

[FantasticVoyages]

Show me video of Cooter linking a course then maybe you can make a comparison to Kazama. Otherwise you are telling me Pele would have been a better running back than O.J. Simpson. Slippery slope.

Comment was a joke. Chill. But seriously, who remembers what happened after Pearl Harbor?

VQ I agree with you, but it may be up to personal preference. I've driven a VQ in a S-chassis and I hated it just as much as when it was in a Z.

[simmode1]

Everyone remembers Pearl Harbor...

No one remembers what happened right after that...

Japan wins.
WTF? I remember what happened: The Atom bomb. What the hell is wrong with you?

Personally, I'd love a VQ powered 240. That swap makes the most sense to me to build a balanced car, whether its drift or grip...

[drift freaq]

Show me video of Cooter linking a course then maybe you can make a comparison to Kazama. Otherwise you are telling me Pele would have been a better running back than O.J. Simpson. Slippery slope.

Comment was a joke. Chill. But seriously, who remembers what happened after Pearl Harbor?

VQ I agree with you, but it may be up to personal preference. I've driven a VQ in a S-chassis and I hated it just as much as when it was in a Z.


The point is this Steve Kinser can drive, give him the car and a bit of practice and I bet he could link a course.

As far as what happened after Pearl Harbor a lot of things. LOL that is topic for a whole other thread that would wind up in Loud Noises.

The engine thing is partly a personal preference and it also varies from VQ to VQ depending on the displacement and model.

This is all that needs to be said about it at this point as it again is topic for another discussion, like I told VQZ33.

Oh and I am chill. I actually enjoy good back and forth discussions. Which is why I let myself go farther than perhaps I should have here. I.E. responding to mr 33's statements because I felt I had too.

[VQZ33]

back on topic i hope u guys enjoy the videos

[Wake]

i guess it would be easier and simpler to say i feel as though nissan made the rb and sr with a sports car in mind... now when they made the 350z and brought back the z im assuming nissan was like... ohh fuck i dont wanna make another new engine for this car lets take a engine from another car with decent torque/hp and put it in here and change a few things... where as the sr20 developed with a sports car chassis in mind and rb with a sports car chassis in mind, not to mention a cast iron block vs an aluminum block which one is more durable i dunno u know physics so u should know the properties of metals and how they react to heat and such... u tell me?

the only way i can think of the vq being better is that it make torque down at low rpm but dude honestly when im going at it im not below 4k rpm therefore whats benefit does the vq provide when u already lost half of ur torque being at high rpm's?


For somebody that has VQ in their screenname you sure dont know much about em.

Looking for that dream VQ swap into your 240SX? Well, you can rule out the 3.8L mill of the 380RS right now; all were machined by Nismo from 3.5L VQ35DEs especially for the 380 and nothing else. No worries though-with 16 years' worth of VQs varying in displacement from 2.0 - 4.0L, made available in FWD, AWD and RWD configurations, and in both longitudinal an transverse orientations, you'll be able to find what you're looking for. The high-revving power of the short-stroke, 2.3L VQ23DE? The 4.0L VQ40DE's monster torque? The high compression, high-flowing cylinder heads of the VQ37VHR? A combination of the three, or more? The possibilities are nearly endless.


VQ20DE
Bore: 76.0 mm
Stroke: 73.3 mm
Compression: 9.5-10.0:1
Output: 150-160 hp
137-145 lb-ft of torque
Orientation: FF
Availability: '95-'03 Nissan Cefiro
'95-'99 Nissan QX



VQ23DE
Bore: 85.0 mm
Stroke: 69.0 mm
Compression: 9.0:1
Output: 171 hp
166 lb-ft of torque
Orientation: FF
Availability: '03-present Nissan Teana
'04-present Renault SM7



VQ25DE
Bore: 85.0 mm
Stroke: 73.3 mm
Compression: 9.8-10.0:1
Output: 190-210 hp
174–195 lb-ft of torque
Orientation: FF, FR, FAWD
Availability: '95-'98 Nissan Cefiro
00-'03 Nissan Cefiro
'96-'99 Nissan Leopard
'97-'99 Nissan Cedric
'04-'09 Nissan Fuga, Elgrand
'08-present Nissan Teana
Variants:
VQ25DET - Turbocharged; 8.5:1 compression; 280 hp / 300 lb-ft of torque; '01-'04 Nissan Stagea 250tRS

VQ25DD - NEO-Di direct fuel injection; eVTC variable valve timing; 11-11.3:1 compression; 210-212 hp / 195-199 lb-ft of torque; '99-'02 Nissan Cefiro; '99-'04 Nissan Cedroc/Gloria; '01-'06 Nissan Skyline V35; '01-present Nissan Stagea

VQ25HR - "High Response"; 10.3:1 compression; 220-222 hp / 194 lb-ft of torque; '06-present Nissan Skyline V36; '04-present Nissan Fuga


VQ30DE
Bore: 93.0 mm
Stroke: 73.3 mm
Compression: 10.0:1
Output: 190-230 hp / 205-217 lb-ft of torque
Orientation: FF / FAWD
Availability: '95-'98 Nissan Cefiro
'95-'99 Nissan QX
'95-'01 Nissan Maxima
'96-'01 Infiniti I30
'99-'03 Nissan Bassara
'98-'03 Nissan Presage
Variants:
VQ30DET - Turbocharged; 9.0:1 compression; 270-280 hp / 271-285 lb-ft of torque; '95-'04 Nissan Gloria, Cedric; '97-'99 Nissan Leopard; '01-present Nissan Cima

VQ30DETT - Twin-turbocharged; 470 hp; '03 Skyline GT-R JGTC race car; '04 Fairlady Z JGTC race car; '05-'06 Fairlady Z Super GT race car

VQ30DD - Direct injection; 11.0:1 compression; 230-260 hp / 217-239 lb-ft of torque; '97-'99 Nissan Leopard; '99-'04 Nissan Cedric, Gloria; '01-'04 Nissan Skyline V35, Stagea


VQ35DE
Bore: 95.5 mm
Stroke: 81.4 mm
Compression: 10.0-10.3:1
Output: 228-298 hp
246-268 lb-ft of torque
Orientation: FF, FR, FAWD
Availability: '01-'04 Nissan Pathfinder,Infiniti QX4
'02-'04 Infiniti I35
'02-present Nissan Altima, Maxima
'03-'06 Nissan 350Z, Infiniti G35
'03-'08 Infiniti FX35; Nissan Teana/Cefiro, Prestige; Renault Escape
'03-present Nissan Murano
'04-present Nissan Quest
'06-'08 Nissan M35
'00-present Nissan Elgrand
'01-present Nissan Stagea; Renault Vel Satis
'02-present Skyline V35
'04-'07 Nissan Fuga
'05-present Nismo Fairlady Z S-Tune GT
'06-present Renault SM7
'08-present Renault Laguna Coupe
Variants:
VQ35HR - "High Response"; 10.6:1 compression; 297-311 hp / 268 lb-ft of torque; '07-'08 Infiniti G35, Nissan 350Z; '07-present Nissan Skyline V36; '08-present Nissan Fuga; Infiniti EX35, FX35, M35


VQ37VHR
Bore: 95.5 mm
Stroke: 86 mm
Compression: 11.0:1
Output: 328-350 hp / 269 lb-ft
Orientation: FR, FAWD
Availability: '08-present Infiniti G37; Nissan Skyline V36
'09-present Infiniti FX37, EX37; Nissan 370Z, Nismo 370Z
'10-present Infinity M37
VQ40DE
Bore: 95.5 mm
Stroke: 92.0 mm
Compression: 9.7:1
Output: 264-269 hp / 284 lb-ft
Orientation: FR, FAWD
Availability: '05-present Nissan Frontier, Xterra, Pathfinder
'09-present Suzuki Equator

Looks like it was used in plenty of performance apps to me.


Seriously tho this is waaaaaaay off topic. This thread is about american drifting skill vs japanese.

And Im pretty sure all the major point have been discussed. And fottnoted by me if you look through the thread. so please just take your un-informed, opinionated, thread shitting, to another thread.

[FantasticVoyages]

Steve Kinsler is a good driver. But what he does is so different to drifting.

What America prefers to see vs. what Japan wants to see will be different. Hence why the judging is different.

BUT. If you put the best US drivers against the best Japanese drivers up where drifting supposedly started on the mountain roads in the same cars??

I have no bias but I would put my money Japan. Whatever reason that is the fact.

[vq35hrNismo]

Wow, unbalanced engine? Ah no its actually a quite smooth engine. V6's are far from unbalanced engine's. Oh and VQHR's are pretty dope engines.

Oh and S chassis actually is a great platform for 300whp engine. It handles the HP quite well.
In fact most people with SR's push for around those numbers anyways. Here and in Japan.
So that really contradicts your argument for the VQ not being and ideal powerplant for the car. Seeing as its stock at close to or just over 300HP which puts it at 235 whp. Hmm and extra torque for faster entry. Sounds like a winner to me. LOL

Oh and really you are going to try and compare a KA to a VQ? If that is what you are insinuating.
KA's are not exactly balanced smooth engines. LOL

Oh and yes I do feel the VQ is a good swap for an S chassis drifter wanting to be competitive.


LOL Torque helps create momentum, Torque created over a period of time and transferred through ones drivetrain creates momentum, which can be used in weight transfer.
HP keeps that created momentum going.

This is simple Physics we are talking about.




Aight man. You cant mistake "smooth motor" from the Z from the chassis it self dampening most of the shock through bushings and such. V6 motors ARE IN FACT naturally unbalanced due to the length of the Crank. The KA is a motor where nissan didn't bother shipping the crank out to fine balance like they did with the RB and SR motors. WHY!? its a N/A. Same goes to a VQ. A lot of money and effort goes into balancing your rotating assembly that due to the change in times economy and emissions Nissan didn't make the VQ motor that special. IMO the VQ feels like a truck motor/eco motor. Its hits torque early in the RPM band like i would want my truck to do. The VQ drops enough near redline where the torque matches that of the SR.

but like dude..you holding your drift at 2k rpm? you entering the corner at 25-30mph? id then understand why you want more torque. Im not the best driver but i sure as hell spin out more in my Z than i do in my 240 wid the rb25. My prefrence is id want a little less torque down low and match it up higher.

Torque isn't the main factor in drifting. Its an excuse ive seen people make to make up for their sloppy entrances/lines. Yes torque helps create momentum. but its actually an application of velocity.

IMO if someone wanted more torque they didn't want to drift better. they wanted to throw more smoke up. Which is opinion of america vs japan. More smoke is more baller :cj:

[Wake]

Steve Kinsler is a good driver. But what he does is so different to drifting.

What America prefers to see vs. what Japan wants to see will be different. Hence why the judging is different.

BUT. If you put the best US drivers against the best Japanese drivers up where drifting supposedly started on the mountain roads in the same cars??

I have no bias but I would put my money Japan. Whatever reason that is the fact.



Ok but are we talking about putting Kazama up against gitten? Or D1SL drivers like nakamura? IMO even nakamura would shit on Gittin in the same (average) powered cars on a touge. But if you put them in high Hp/Tq cars on a course like road atlanta, then I would give it to Gittin because thats what we have adjusted to.
As that miata video shows, drivers like Kazama are just too experienced and have too many year under their belts for them to even consider our top drivers competitive. You have to realize we are talking about 5 years of experience against 15 years. I mean lookk at Tsuchiya and Kazama just laugh at Gushi and Millen. its a fucking joke to them

In my opinion our best drivers are only as good (technically) as Japans mediocre drivers. As the miata video shows, Americas solution to drifting is throwing power at it instead of learning to become a better driver and mor situation adept.

Now fast forward to 2011
I still see the pros in the same light, with the exception of a few like Forsberg, Foust,and some naturals like Matt Powers, and Streeter. But honesltly most of the best (technical) drifters I know have no desire to go pro.

So the real question IMO is who has more technique and style?
And I would say that at a street/DD level we are almost equal to Japan at this point. Im not talking about average 240 owners here compared to average silvia owners there because its obviously easier for them to get started seeing that they get turbos and diffs from the factory. But I am talking more specifically about comparing Similarly powered/built cars with drivers that have had about the same seat time. I mean Pink godzira and VRT alone have had some member that could have gone to Japan and been competitive.
Ill put it this way, I would trust Eric or Brian behind the weel of my car just as much as I would any D1SL driver.

Aight man. You cant mistake "smooth motor" from the Z from the chassis it self dampening most of the shock through bushings and such. V6 motors ARE IN FACT naturally unbalanced due to the length of the Crank. The KA is a motor where nissan didn't bother shipping the crank out to fine balance like they did with the RB and SR motors. WHY!? its a N/A. Same goes to a VQ. A lot of money and effort goes into balancing your rotating assembly that due to the change in times economy and emissions Nissan didn't make the VQ motor that special. IMO the VQ feels like a truck motor/eco motor. Its hits torque early in the RPM band like i would want my truck to do. The VQ drops enough near redline where the torque matches that of the SR.

but like dude..you holding your drift at 2k rpm? you entering the corner at 25-30mph? id then understand why you want more torque. Im not the best driver but i sure as hell spin out more in my Z than i do in my 240 wid the rb25. My prefrence is id want a little less torque down low and match it up higher.

Torque isn't the main factor in drifting. Its an excuse ive seen people make to make up for their sloppy entrances/lines. Yes torque helps create momentum. but its actually an application of velocity.

IMO if someone wanted more torque they didn't want to drift better. they wanted to throw more smoke up. Which is opinion of america vs japan. More smoke is more baller :cj:

OK OK OK Enough with the opinionated VQ talk. Everyone is being assholes and this thread is starting to stink.
Are you saying america or japan likes smoke more? because if you have ever seen nomuken drift all he cqres about is smoke. I think each driver has his own style which is what contributes to there being such a worldwide love of drifting. I personally wpuld rather be the guy in the underpowered car keeping up with the big power guys because Im a more sound technical driver and therefore have more skill and can do it with less power. Providing me with the opportunity to adapt to all tracks, conditions, and power levels. As you see kazama do regularly.















still pwning pages on the DL

[vq35hrNismo]

For somebody that has VQ in their screenname you sure dont know much about em.


Looks like it was used in plenty of performance apps to me.


Seriously tho this is waaaaaaay off topic. This thread is about american drifting skill vs japanese.

And Im pretty sure all the major point have been discussed. And fottnoted by me if you look through the thread. so please just take your un-informed, opinionated, thread shitting, to another thread.



Those arn't performance applications. Thats Nissan taking a motor they already have an using it in different vehicles. since when was a presage, maxima, bassara, altima, fx, qx, steaga...etc ever a performance car? a freaking minivan? suv? The VQ has always been a economy motor that nissan boasted as performance to make sells. yah ok the vq30dett used in their JGTC car is cool. But you wont be seeing that on the street. Where do you get that block? that head? Its crank, rods, pistons, its cams, valves..etc its not a regular VQ.

[vq35hrNismo]

I know its off topic. but dude dont put the VQ on a freaking pedestal because your putting one in your s-chasis. I have a freaking rb-25. Idiots bow down to it like its some king motor. IT FEELS SLOW AS FUCK. but i still love it more than my nismo. I cant even compare it to the VQ motor which yes, is faster than my rb atm.

[Wake]

Uh what?

I have KA24DE now and 2 SR's Im building (1 NA/1 turbo). When did anyone say anything about them getting a VQ?

What does that have to do with the fact that regardless of what you think the VQ was intend for or touted as, it is used in many performance apps regardless of configuration and when combined with a S-chassis it can be a potent performer for drifting. And that was my sole point about the VQ.
NOW SHUT THE FUCK UP ABOUT THE VQ!!!

[drift freaq]

I know its off topic. but dude dont put the VQ on a freaking pedestal because your putting one in your s-chasis. I have a freaking rb-25. Idiots bow down to it like its some king motor. IT FEELS SLOW AS FUCK. but i still love it more than my nismo. I cant even compare it to the VQ motor which yes, is faster than my rb atm.

You know what? first off I think you are VQZ33 under another screen name, funny you both Z's and S chassis and the same join date. Either that or you're his roommate and are trolling for him.
Now before you go off on the whole RB thing. Maybe if you had researched who you were talking to you would realize. I fucking owned and ran a RB car. LOL I know all about RB's oh and I do like them.
Its not about putting the engine on a pedestal its about recognizing a good light weight engine when I see one.
Now I have said this discussion of engines has taken it off topic. I even did not respond to some of your earlier comments because of that.

Please just shut the fuck up. Even I admitted I had gone a bit far in the engine discussion. You are just dragging it out. Its a subject for another topic.

[FantasticVoyages]

Ok but are we talking about putting Kazama up against gitten? Or D1SL drivers like nakamura?

still pwning pages on the DL


I didn't read everything you said, but I think I agree with you.

It all boils down to what drifting is defined as, what are the things that make up a perfect pass.

If what the US got from Japan IS what drifting is about then they are clearly better. But which is more fun to watch? Japan or US?

[Pure_JDM]

5 pages and it isn't locked yet? I'm surprised.

[silsx13]

The point is this Steve Kinser can drive, give him the car and a bit of practice and I bet he could link a course.

As far as what happened after Pearl Harbor a lot of things. LOL that is topic for a whole other thread that would wind up in Loud Noises.

The engine thing is partly a personal preference and it also varies from VQ to VQ depending on the displacement and model.

This is all that needs to be said about it at this point as it again is topic for another discussion, like I told VQZ33.

Oh and I am chill. I actually enjoy good back and forth discussions. Which is why I let myself go farther than perhaps I should have here. I.E. responding to mr 33's statements because I felt I had too.


WOW, when did this thread become an Engine-discussion/debate one?

OK to get back on topic and because no one has done this yet plus to edumucate those who don't know him, here's a lil clip on Mr. Steve Kinser:


YouTube - Steve Kinser on SPEED during World of Outlaws races (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pb0LdxK8jmQ)


Different racing discipline yes but I think its all relative....

[Perfect Balance]

you realize your talking about people hauling ass at the fastest track in japan and possibly the world? Right?
I almost want to assume this was sarcasm.

Suzuka and Fuji in Japan are both faster tracks. Let's not even start with the world.

Oh well, the discussion has moved on.

[fckillerbee]

the video of the miata thing...just show you that both those "american" drivers don't have experience in stupid low power cars...even though gushi was raising in a corolla. A miata is still harder. Almost as hard as a FC...and only thing harder than a FC was either a 300zx twin turbo, or Mr2 turbo. both had no angle...with shitty powerbands. I'm sure if they were "tuned" for drifting it would be easier, but the miata was relatively easy to drive. Nothing is easier than a GT mustang, or a 200whp 240sx.

Lets keep this on topic!

[ericcastro]

this is a real video of japanese drifters vs american drifters.... I'm not talking about millions of corporation dollars at work for those drift machines... this is stock car vs stock car enjoy gentlemen and let the truth be known...

YouTube - USA vs JAPAN - Drifting the Miata - Part 1/3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdbRPEx67zo)

YouTube - USA vs JAPAN - Drifting the Miata - Part 2/3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iS9DkAsP2u8&feature=related)

YouTube - USA vs JAPAN - Drifting the Miata - Part 3/3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QcZBcSNVqA&feature=related)

Shit was posted mid 2007.

prolly filmed late 2006.

irrelevent post.

............ drifting is about momentum and weight transfer not torque and hp...

Its about all 4.
Otherwise, just push a engineless car, pull the ebrake, and see what that momentum and weight transfer do for ya.

. ex i should be able to pull the same angle from a stock ka 240sx as a swapped 240 with a vq...
of course, ......full lock...... but do you have the power to get out of it at 10mph around the building at Balcony??

A V-8 does, a KA doesnt.

. what makes someone more competitive cause they have a vq in there 240? if thats the case they need to improve there driving not there engine catch my drift?.
Sorry duder, but there is no way in hell my KA will do the big bank at irwindale. no matter how much PSI i run in the back, and whatever other unicorn dreams and hopes its running on.

But a VQ will in a heartbeat.

So yes, that does make them more competitive.
And the fact that in tandem I cant catch them, but they can catch me.


. i call that a lack of skill and finesse... u cannot make up skill, experience and finesse with horsepower and torque.
.
and you cant make up lack of HP and Torque with skill and finesse.
Somethings, no matter how hard you cross your fingers and pray to my little pony sparkle dreams, its just not gonna happen.

I am wondering if you have a youdrift account?


It all boils down to what drifting is defined as, what are the things that make up a perfect pass.


great post.
green square to you.
Formula D specifically ask for different things in their drivers meetings and judges on different criteria.

[word sux]

this whole thread reeks of butthurt


GRASS ROOTS > ALL ELSE

[fckillerbee]

lol...eric I can see ziptied is rubbing off on you. lol. I love your posts.

and to re-clarify...i also drive a KA....anything with more power will pull itself out from a full lock drift coming around the building...."I"....have to take a damn perfect line to keep it going....."power" will allow you to not only come out...but even change that line...vs I can only take one line...if I want to go wider...I don't have the power to push the car around...wheel speed isn't spinning enough to keep the car in drift.

my car......
YouTube - 626 drift at the balcony feb 13 2011 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmTBDYftRZI)


brian sloma's v8
YouTube - 626 drift at the balcony feb 13 2011 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xP69efpuMRE)

you can see how i'm ON throttle....V8's make a fucking world of difference at that speed.


As far as "perfect" drifting in FD....guy hit it on the money....at the start of the events...they ask the drivers what they want. I remember at atlanta...they specifically said "zeros" for dirt dropping. Every driver aggreed that it's harder to get that rear tire ON the line.

forseburg talks about atlanta....what they look for....and if you watch his line....it's phenominal everytime....guy drives a z with less than 400whp.....in a convertable.
YouTube - Chris Forsberg - Formula Drift Atlanta 2010 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eINMWhP6ry8&playnext=1&list=PL46ACEB53DC9B2912)


We have some amazing drivers....no doubt...but in a overal shootout...japan has been doing this 10 years on us EASY! That doesn't mean we won't win some....but at the same time...look at their tracks compared to ours....they are simply harder. So Their tracks are designed to improve skill. If we went there...we would lose...if they came to irwindale...well....that's OUR HOUSE OF DRIFT.

still the best driving i've seen at irwindale to date...(as qualifying)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ff8ZZ0BjLaw

my favorite atlanta run from pawlak...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjsnUAnlico&feature=related

dudes a great driver....

[word sux]

lol...eric I can see ziptied is rubbing off on you. lol. I love your posts.

and to re-clarify...i also drive a KA....anything with more power will pull itself out from a full lock drift coming around the building...."I"....have to take a damn perfect line to keep it going....."power" will allow you to not only come out...but even change that line...vs I can only take one line...if I want to go wider...I don't have the power to push the car around...wheel speed isn't spinning enough to keep the car in drift.

my car......
YouTube - 626 drift at the balcony feb 13 2011 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmTBDYftRZI)


brian sloma's v8
YouTube - 626 drift at the balcony feb 13 2011 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xP69efpuMRE)

you can see how i'm ON throttle....V8's make a fucking world of difference at that speed.


As far as "perfect" drifting in FD....guy hit it on the money....at the start of the events...they ask the drivers what they want. I remember at atlanta...they specifically said "zeros" for dirt dropping. Every driver aggreed that it's harder to get that rear tire ON the line.

forseburg talks about atlanta....what they look for....and if you watch his line....it's phenominal everytime....guy drives a z with less than 400whp.....in a convertable.
YouTube - Chris Forsberg - Formula Drift Atlanta 2010 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eINMWhP6ry8&playnext=1&list=PL46ACEB53DC9B2912)


We have some amazing drivers....no doubt...but in a overal shootout...japan has been doing this 10 years on us EASY! That doesn't mean we won't win some....but at the same time...look at their tracks compared to ours....they are simply harder. So Their tracks are designed to improve skill. If we went there...we would lose...if they came to irwindale...well....that's OUR HOUSE OF DRIFT.

still the best driving i've seen at irwindale to date...(as qualifying)
YouTube - Bergenholtz Racing - JTP @ Formula Drift Irwindale, CA 2009 Rd. 7 - #1 Qualifer! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ff8ZZ0BjLaw)

my favorite atlanta run from pawlak...
YouTube - Joon Maeng and Justin Pawlak in top 16 competition Drift Atlanta '09 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjsnUAnlico&feature=related)

dudes a great driver....



I agree with what you said about underpowered cars.


Last season on the stock ka I had only 1 line to run and that was the fastest line. If i messed up even a little bit i would straighten, no margin for error. Thats why i went sr this season even thought its stock for the most part it will give me a little more wiggle room, no more 70mph kamikaze attacks lol.


GRASS ROOTS > ALL ELSE

[BoostSlideWayz]

Well us Americans still are very new to drifting. There for i am on the Japanese side considering they are the creators and there style is amazing. But i remember seeing a pro drifter say he would like to see us Americans use more American cars. and lots of the best american drifters are still using Japanese cars. so when i see us using some of our own cars vs japan i think it would be a good battle but for them to switch from Jap to us cars would probably need some getting used to.

[Brinton]

who cares if japanese drifting is "faster" than american drifting.

Japanese cars will always look better and japanese people will always have cooler trends and style.

[ericcastro]

japanese people will always have cooler trends and style.

http://all4yourfun.com/img/bizarre/Weird_Japanese_Inventions/2.jpg

http://www.thefunnyimages.com/wp-content/uploads/weird-japanese-inventions-2.jpg

http://shaba9a.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/weird-japanese-girls.jpg?w=375

http://www.xoxobook.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/funny-japanese-pillow-invention_strange_weird_offbeat_crazy_fun_9084.jpg

[One_love_silvia]

@ eric

i can make the same argument about the us. (see attached pic.) hell, im not even sure if thats a guy or girl.

however im not going to clutter the pages with pictures of ugly people.

also, zOmg the legendary word_sux! coming from the ever-so-unpopulated 240sxforums eh? lol

back on topic...anyone else got any more jap vs us drift vids? maybe of some pros from here drifting in japan?

as for kazama having an advantage over millen and gushi, sure...he drives cars like that all the time back in japan, im sure of it. but he did all that in a LHD car.

i watched a d1 episode with sam hubinette and a few other american guys drifting in against the japs in the d1 japan. they had to drive RHD cars, and it totally messed them up. they looked like amateurs out there spinning out all the time and all. and those were cars specifically built using instructions the drivers gave.

kazama did an amazing job with a STOCK car thats LHD. the american drifters did, at best, an ok job with the highly modded RHD drift cars from team vertex.

so even if he does have exp. in short wheel based cars, he doesnt have experience in LHD cars. let alone fully stock ones.

[1 88 U]

Japanese dont use V8's haha. And still better than drifting here? Therefore proving you dont need a v8 to be cool? Teddy?

No, in D1 you just need 800+ hp 6 cylinder turbo with nitrous oxide to be competitive.

[ericcastro]

@ eric

i can make the same argument about the us. (see attached pic.) hell, im not even sure if thats a guy or girl.


I think you missed the point of my post.
Dudes comment was so ignorant, I just gave him some pics.

And AGAIN, you guys are talking about US vs JPN, 4 or more years ago.



No, in D1 you just need 800+ hp 6 cylinder turbo with nitrous oxide to be competitive.
You get it.

I think most of these kids watch you tube videos and dont realize what they are seeing is several years old.

[One_love_silvia]

And AGAIN, you guys are talking about US vs JPN, 4 or more years ago.




as were u when commenting on that video.
im simplying negating what u said about said video

and if youtube is such a bad source for current videos, could u please supply ur source and share it with the rest of us? since it seems u have said source of current/good videos

[1 88 U]

this is a real video of japanese drifters vs american drifters.... I'm not talking about millions of corporation dollars at work for those drift machines... this is stock car vs stock car enjoy gentlemen and let the truth be known...

YouTube - USA vs JAPAN - Drifting the Miata - Part 1/3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdbRPEx67zo)

YouTube - USA vs JAPAN - Drifting the Miata - Part 2/3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iS9DkAsP2u8&feature=related)

YouTube - USA vs JAPAN - Drifting the Miata - Part 3/3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QcZBcSNVqA&feature=related)

Tanner Foust beat Kazama in the same challenge in a mustang with a vlsd.
YouTube - Drift Off 2 - Round 2 Keiichi Tsuchiya VS Ken Gushi - Best Motoring International (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ea7v1twZWGc)

[North]

No, in D1 you just need 800+ hp 6 cylinder turbo with nitrous oxide to be competitive.

Example:

YouTube - SAITO DIAGO 800hp JZX100 MONSTER DRIFT ODAIBA 2008 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnZqw7FNlK0)

Another thing, why does Kazama's name keep coming up? No denying he is/was a great driver, but he hasn't been competing in D1 for almost 3-4 years now... shame really, but maybe he'll show up again with the introduction of Tsuchiya's new series.

[FantasticVoyages]

Because he is one of the best ever.

Funny in those miata videos, the only person who didn't do better than Tsuchya was Rhys Millen.

When Gushi was driving his own mustang he was no where as smooth as Kazama was in the sucky Miata.

[1 88 U]

Example:

YouTube - SAITO DIAGO 800hp JZX100 MONSTER DRIFT ODAIBA 2008 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnZqw7FNlK0)

Another thing, why does Kazama's name keep coming up? No denying he is/was a great driver, but he hasn't been competing in D1 for almost 3-4 years now... shame really, but maybe he'll show up again with the introduction of Tsuchiya's new series.

You mean show up in D1 again because Tsuchya is out? I predict many old school drivers that disapeared in the past 5 years will suddenly return.

[ericcastro]

as were u when commenting on that video.
im simplying negating what u said about said video

and if youtube is such a bad source for current videos, could u please supply ur source and share it with the rest of us? since it seems u have said source of current/good videos


Can you speak english.

Not some wanna be intellectual version of "said" language.
(sounds so stupid when people say that, its not a fucking document in court, we are conversing)

lol.
You didnt negate anything.
I did when commenting about old videos.
Then double negated videos by pointing out they were old.

BTW, the conversations moved on, so catch up.

[singlecamslam]

I think we need better tracks in America. Can we all agree on that atleast?

[silsx13]

http://all4yourfun.com/img/bizarre/Weird_Japanese_Inventions/2.jpg

http://www.thefunnyimages.com/wp-content/uploads/weird-japanese-inventions-2.jpg

http://shaba9a.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/weird-japanese-girls.jpg?w=375

http://www.xoxobook.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/funny-japanese-pillow-invention_strange_weird_offbeat_crazy_fun_9084.jpg


SO,

Pic #1: Made so you don't burn your face off eating Ramen?

Pic #2: TP on the head so you don't have to carry a Kleenex box to blow your nose? Or Dunce cap? (If anyone remembers what a Dunce cap is...)

Pic #3: Ganguro Girls, "GG." Yay!

Pic #4: This one helps you fall asleep, especially if you're an old guy I guess, haha.


And what's the point of all these pics? Maybe to point out the innovations that the Japanese try out? Or maybe just for laughs, haha.

Or maybe the Japanese DO NOT always have the cooler trends and styles all the time...everything is a mix and mash up nowadays anyways.

With that being said, I think the different drifting styles between the Japanese and American sides influence each other in some way BUT, there is distinct differences as was mentioned in previous posts such as angle, speed, and line.

Out of those 3, I believe and say that "Line" is the most important...

[North]

You mean show up in D1 again because Tsuchya is out? I predict many old school drivers that disapeared in the past 5 years will suddenly return.

No. I meant show up in Tsuchiya's new series that him and Daijiro Inada are creating. Kazama drove for [Tsuchiya's] Kei Office before he sold it off (just an FYI if you didn't already know). But, it's probably the same politics and bullshit that had drivers like him, Taniguchi and others back out of D1 that eventually made Tsuchiya leave as well...

And just because I was asking why Kazama was continually being mentioned doesn't mean that I don't think he's a great driver. I'd just put Imamura as being a better driver to compare the current US vs Japanese crop. Reason being: he's been in D1 since the beginning, he's the ONLY driver to win more than 1 championship (3 so far, 2 of which were back-to-back; and in different cars), and he's still competing.

[1 88 U]

No. I meant show up in Tsuchiya's new series that him and Daijiro Inada are creating. Kazama drove for [Tsuchiya's] Kei Office before he sold it off (just an FYI if you didn't already know). But, it's probably the same politics and bullshit that had drivers like him, Taniguchi and others back out of D1 that eventually made Tsuchiya leave as well...



Did this make since to you when you read it back? Tsuchiya is/was/will be the problem, sorry to break it to you. Dai and Dori King will go on to peddle DVDs while the new D1 will secure a TV deal, attract new sponsors an hopefully return stateside without drama.

[Pure_JDM]

Did this make since to you when you read it back?

Did your question make SENSE to you?

[Wake]

[email protected] 1 88 U

Seriously you think that D1 is going to come up with something better than Tsuchiya and Dai-san?

Your fucking tripping, I know myself and most of the older guys in this thread would rather go to a MSC style grassroots even than some BS NASACAR'd out corporate shindig.

Have you read any of the other posts in this thread?

[chiboy002]

Did this make since to you when you read it back? Tsuchiya is/was/will be the problem, sorry to break it to you. Dai and Dori King will go on to peddle DVDs while the new D1 will secure a TV deal, attract new sponsors an hopefully return stateside without drama.
cocaine is one hell of a drug

[One_love_silvia]

Can you speak english.

Not some wanna be intellectual version of "said" language.
(sounds so stupid when people say that, its not a fucking document in court, we are conversing)

lol.
You didnt negate anything.
I did when commenting about old videos.
Then double negated videos by pointing out they were old.

BTW, the conversations moved on, so catch up.

pretty sure that proving ur point u were trying to make was wrong or invalid, is negating it...
ne·gate:
   /nɪˈgeɪt, ˈnɛgeɪt/ Show Spelled [ni-geyt, neg-eyt] Show IPA verb, -gat·ed, -gat·ing.
–verb (used with object)
1.
to deny the existence, evidence, or truth of: an investigation tending to negate any supernatural influences.
2.
to nullify or cause to be ineffective: Progress on the study has been negated by the lack of funds.

and who said i was trying to sound intellectual? people refer to things they have alrdy mentioned as "said" item, etc. it saves time and sounds better than referring to the same object over and over and over again.

sorry you can't keep up with the times, ojii-san

[Wake]

Hey You, Guy^^

Shut up.

[One_love_silvia]

yes sir! i love how all u older guys think ur the shit because u have "experience". its laughable. get off your high horse. its the internet. take ur tough guy act somewhere else. no one gives a shit

[Wake]

Your sitting here quoting websters while trying to explain that you werent trying to sound intellectual.

You yourself negated "said" statement.

Age has nothing to do with being a douche. That lasts forever, and your right on track




And BTW if someone takes your mind, Im pretty sure your pride goes with it.

[One_love_silvia]

Ya I'm clearly the one on track to bein a douche..lol...
And it was dictionary.com copy nd paste. I don't care enough to tytype that all out. I put it there for him, because it seemed he was confused on the definition.

And no. I'll rephrase it for you. You can control what I do, but you can't control who I am. Or another way it can be seen as: you can take everything away from me, but I will always have my pride

[Brinton]

Haruguchi #1

[1 88 U]

[email protected] 1 88 U

Seriously you think that D1 is going to come up with something better than Tsuchiya and Dai-san?

Your fucking tripping, I know myself and most of the older guys in this thread would rather go to a MSC style grassroots even than some BS NASACAR'd out corporate shindig.

Have you read any of the other posts in this thread?

They don't have to come up with anything because they already have it.

I agree that MSC is more wholesome and entertaining but there is always space for an extreme pro series.

Older guys? I'm one of those "older guys in this thread" and I would rather attend both. Hell, I've heard a great idea for creating a class based tandem bracket that would combine both in one event.

Face it, Tsuchya was chasing away drivers and sponsers that weren't kissing butt and selling DVDs for him. D1GP management was sick of biased judgements and wanted a 5 judge panel. They wanted a TV deal to reach a broader Japanese audience. They wanted to present D1 as a legit automotive series. All things Tsuchya was apparently against. Now he wants to step on MSC's toes to produce Best Motoring content?

[Brian]

Post more facts and figures.

[Wake]

or your age for that matter "Mr. Old guy of the thread".

[ericcastro]

pretty sure that proving ur point u were trying to make was wrong or invalid, is negating it...
ne·gate:
   /nɪˈgeɪt, ˈnɛgeɪt/ Show Spelled [ni-geyt, neg-eyt] Show IPA verb, -gat·ed, -gat·ing.
–verb (used with object)
1.
to deny the existence, evidence, or truth of: an investigation tending to negate any supernatural influences.
2.
to nullify or cause to be ineffective: Progress on the study has been negated by the lack of funds.

and who said i was trying to sound intellectual? people refer to things they have alrdy mentioned as "said" item, etc. it saves time and sounds better than referring to the same object over and over and over again.

sorry you can't keep up with the times, ojii-san

blah blah blah.

I know what Negate means.
All your examples are negated.
That was the original point.
Its been stated by me 3 times.
You still dont get it.
WakeBHR was wrong.
Youre not a douche.
Youre just stupid.


BTW
Regardless of the internet, age and experience to have value.
Anyone with common sense knows that.


Post more facts and figures.
ummm, I heard Giraffes only sleep for 20 minutes at a time.

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01447/giraffe_1447704c.jpg

[Wake]

Ericcastro was wrong - Needed more figures
http://ultimategrinders.com/blogs/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/giraffegraph.jpg

[One_love_silvia]

blah blah blah.

I know what Negate means.
All your examples are negated.
That was the original point.
Its been stated by me 3 times.
You still dont get it.
WakeBHR was wrong.
Youre not a douche.
Youre just stupid.


BTW
Regardless of the internet, age and experience to have value.
Anyone with common sense knows that.




im not even gunna continue to reply to u because u clearly think urself as an elitist. its obvious u think ur the shit. u think that just because you are older than most people here, you deserve more respect.

well lemme tell you, you're wrong. i dont give a rats ass how old u are. if u cant have respect for everyone (esp. people you don't know) then u urself dont deserve respect. its as simple as that. age and experience have no value if u can't act ur age and understand respect.

no mature, self-respecting adult of ur age would try and start something with someone my age simply because they can.

thats whats wrong with this country, and great about japan. no one knows the meaning of respect. you should treat people you don't know as you would treat any level of authority. not this "well i dont know them so im going to be an ass because its the internet and i can."

its time to put big boy pants on, grow up, get ur ass off the computer, go out into the real world and learn some respect. and i certainly see why you sit on such a high horse, living in hollywood and all.

and now im done. thanks for shitting on a thread that was starting to go somewhere.

have a good day :mrmeph:

[Wake]

apparently your parents didnt know enough to teach you to respect your elders.
"with age comes wisdom" and all that jazz

Funny theres no sayings about respecting those younger than you.

"Growing old is mandatory; growing up is optional." ~Chili Davis


EDIT: I just read the rest of that post above me, and that has to be some of the most asinine, immature, crybaby, bullshit ever spouted on zilvia. "You should treat people you don't know as you would treat any level of authority" WTF are you kidding? So I should treat every punk ass kid I meet with the respect of my father? Your smoking crack, get back on your big wheels and peddle your ass back to La Jolla.

[North]

Face it, Tsuchya was chasing away drivers and sponsers that weren't kissing butt and selling DVDs for him. D1GP management was sick of biased judgements and wanted a 5 judge panel. They wanted a TV deal to reach a broader Japanese audience. They wanted to present D1 as a legit automotive series. All things Tsuchya was apparently against. Now he wants to step on MSC's toes to produce Best Motoring content?

Well, I'm not saying you're wrong, but everything that's been released information-wise is pointing to the opposite of what you're saying, other than the fact that D1 has moved to a 5 judge panel. So... I just want to know where you're reading all of this, because I haven't seen anything that has said Tsuchiya was behind any of it. And Tsuchiya and Inada were the ones saying that D1 were the ones wanting DVDs sold.... just saying.

[FantasticVoyages]

I don't doubt the shiestyness of Dai and Tsuchiya.

[North]

Oh, don't get me wrong... I'm not saying that only one side's to blame, or that one is more guilty than the other. I'm just going based off of what's been released, seeing as how D1 has yet to say anything regarding them leaving.

I love drifting either way, from grassroots to FD/D1's purpose-built monsters; both are necessary for the continuation of the sport.

[ericcastro]

im not even gunna continue to reply to u because u clearly think urself as an elitist. its obvious u think ur the shit. u think that just because you are older than most people here, you deserve more respect.

well lemme tell you, you're wrong. i dont give a rats ass how old u are. if u cant have respect for everyone (esp. people you don't know) then u urself dont deserve respect. its as simple as that. age and experience have no value if u can't act ur age and understand respect.

no mature, self-respecting adult of ur age would try and start something with someone my age simply because they can.

thats whats wrong with this country, and great about japan. no one knows the meaning of respect. you should treat people you don't know as you would treat any level of authority. not this "well i dont know them so im going to be an ass because its the internet and i can."

its time to put big boy pants on, grow up, get ur ass off the computer, go out into the real world and learn some respect. and i certainly see why you sit on such a high horse, living in hollywood and all.

and now im done. thanks for shitting on a thread that was starting to go somewhere.

have a good day :mrmeph:

You try and speak as if you know what you're talking about,...
But you are just repeating things you heard, and they are out of context and don't make any logical sense.

BTW, I never didn't respect you.
Once again, you just don't get it.

I didn't "start" anything with you, and especially "cause I can"
I pointed out your short comings and you started fucking crying and trying to blame and point fingers about it, lmao!!!

This thread wasn't going anywhere buddy.

We just closed one of these like 3 weeks prior to this one opening, lol.
You are the actual reason its now derailed.
When you got called out on your 6 year old videos and blatantly un-backed up opinions,
you started attacking people.

Blame yourself.

BTW big talk, you could do us all a favor and move to Japan??? :)
lmao!!

[Drift N Dragg]

and with that....

Locked