[[Chase Bays]] S14 Brake Booster Delete Kit install (through firewall)

[dRift_g0ddess]

Soo I got this nifty brake booster delete kit and brake relocation kit for my Ka-t S14..I already upgraded my brakes but needed a bigger bmc & I was having some very serious space issues with the turbo in the bay. It's a full replacement kit of the OEM brake booster and master cylinder. It comes with a 7/8 master cylinder and everything you need to install it.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y133/AlotLikeLove/master_cylinder2_grande.jpg

I'll be installing this weekend (Fri, Sat & Sun). Figured I'd do a write up on installation for those of you who may be interested [:

Exhibit A:
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y133/AlotLikeLove/IMG_0208-1.jpg My car


Exhibit B:
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y133/AlotLikeLove/IMG_0219.jpghttp://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y133/AlotLikeLove/IMG_0251.jpgThe kit.


Tonight is removal of the booster & lines..

Before pics:
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y133/AlotLikeLove/IMG_0214.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y133/AlotLikeLove/IMG_0213-1.jpg
yaa don't mind that overboost protection bolt at the end of the vacuum line :]

Start by draining the brake fluid. Then remove booster vacuum line and disconnect all brake lines from the master cylinder. Disconnect the pin that connects the booster to the brake pedal (inside the car) & take off the 4 nuts that hold the booster to the firewall. Depending on your setup, you may have to disconnect the exhaust and/or turbo to get the booster out.. if not the booster should pull straight out. And thats where we're at right now. So far, it's been an hr into it. Heading out to the 24-hr autozone cause I just realized we didn't get the four bolts used to mount the new bmc on the firewall in the kit. Then hit up a liquor store to grab some Monsters for motivation :wiggle:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y133/AlotLikeLove/IMG_0225.jpg
out

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y133/AlotLikeLove/IMG_0224.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y133/AlotLikeLove/IMG_0227.jpg
what we've removed so far..

[junn]

oh wow real nice

this should be a real nice write up thread

cant wait to see the finish product

[dRift_g0ddess]

Got up this morning at 8.. drove around for 3hrs trying to find the bolts that mount the bmc to the firewall :eek3: ended up finding them at OSH (i believe these are supposed to come in the kit so you probably wont be hunting for them.. no biggie though) Also picked up a 90 degree brass pipe fitting for the custom vacuum block I had made to mount directly to the intake manifold where the old brake booster vacuum line went. Again, drove many places trying to find male to male 1/8in pipe thread to 1/4in pipe thread, ended up finding the right one at Hose Man.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y133/AlotLikeLove/IMG_0237.jpg

Also picked up a flaring tool for the rear brake hard line.. you WILL need one of these.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y133/AlotLikeLove/IMG_0238-1.jpg

Just came across another little issue.. the stock pin that hooks the booster up to the brake pedal is too short for the fork on the new bmc.. so we had to use a bolt instead..

pin
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y133/AlotLikeLove/IMG_0235.jpg

bolt
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y133/AlotLikeLove/IMG_0239-1.jpg

we're now hooking up the vacuum block :]

[tukn9s]

Same kit I have in my s-14, I was missing some stuff too but it's all in and lines are bled pedal is hard, but not to bad. Are you doin the brake line tuck, that's what I did and it really cleans up the bay.

[dRift_g0ddess]

yeah i got the "through firewall" brake line relocation kit which relocates the brake lines and Wilwood proportioning valve to the interior of the vehicle. I'm running brembos all around so i'm hoping its not too tough to daily :] Are you running stock brakes?

[tukn9s]

No z32 frt and rear with endless pads and rf-650 fluid, I had to pull my abs and wiring to, big pain, I was also missing the 3an t fitting in my kit

[turbo_dreams]

Glad you're doing a write up on this man, I've been back and forth on ordering this, not having any experience with manual brakes. Your zenki looks well done and clean, keep us posted!

[slideways2004]

yeah write back on how it feels to drive. Im really curious to see the difference in driveablity.

[tukn9s]

It's not bad, requires a little more effort, but it's not to bad

[dRift_g0ddess]

Story of the day:
I was expecting some parts for the project which were scheduled for delivery today from FedEx (anytime between 8am-9pm) Out of curiosity, I searched the tracking number and for some reason instead of todays date, the estimated delivery date was now January 25!!! FML! My car's torn apart and I was planning on having it ready for work this Monday x_X So I get on the phone with FedEx and the guy tells me that since I changed the destination address two days ago that delivery time was delayed 24 hrs......do the math. So i'm like "WTF?? Dude this is life or death.. I see it's in Riverside right now and I live about 15 mins away can I PLEASE pick it up!?" he says, "Okay, I can have them set it aside for you to pick up before 3:30pm today in Riverside." Yesss!! So we jump in the truck at 3:00 and jam out to the FedEx on Riverside Dr and as we pull up, it's DEAD EMPTY.... omg. Some dude walking through the lot said he was the security guard and no one was working today, just him and a few truck drivers. So I get back on the phone with customer support and play phone tag with a few people trying to locate my package...as i'm watching the time tick by, they're verifying addresses.. tracking numbers werent matching, pretty much everything that could have gone wrong, Did. Finally, (about 3:50pm) the operator gives me a different FedEx address in Riverside and we scrambled to this other location 25mins away from where we just were..I'm too cheap to pay for internet on my phone so I call my buddy to help navigate me to this other address. We ended up making it just in time but damn.. what a mish.

On to the good stuff.. all the stock brake parts are out and the new master cylinder is bolted up. Talk about clearance!! Now we're marking and drilling the four holes in the firewall for the bulkhead fittings. We will be routing the new lines inside the cab to see how well they fit.

"There are 4 interior lines total. The shortest one (90 to straight) routes to the drivers side front line bulkhead. The next 3 are close in length, 27, 28, and 29 inches. The 27 inch (90 to straight) routes to the passenger side front line bulkhead. The 28 inch (90 to straight) is for the bulkhead tee to Wilwood proportioning valve. The last 29 inch (90 to 90) is for the Wilwood prop valve to rear line bulkhead. The way we setup the rear lines gives you MANY options for proportioning valve placement..."

Pics:
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y133/AlotLikeLove/IMG_0231.jpg
when we tried to take out the stock front hard lines they were a pain so we just cut them out

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y133/AlotLikeLove/IMG_0244.jpg
New bmc mounted.. talk about Clearance!!
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y133/AlotLikeLove/IMG_0245.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y133/AlotLikeLove/IMG_0246.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y133/AlotLikeLove/IMG_0250-1.jpg
This is where the front brake line comes through up to the firewall.


http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y133/AlotLikeLove/labels.jpg
Here's the lines hooked up and labeled where they're going to go.

[dRift_g0ddess]

Todays the last day and everythings hooked up. We are in the process of bleeding all the lines right now.. Here's a few pics from last night and this morning:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y133/AlotLikeLove/IMG_0266.jpg
This is the line with the flare that we had to make for the rears. We opted for this loop-around method because we're trying to keep the A/C working as this is my daily driver. I'm sure if you eliminate the A/C it's a lot easier. You can see the flare we made along with the compression fitting.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y133/AlotLikeLove/IMG_0274.jpg
This is a pic from inside the engine bay on the passenger side of the front right brake line (left in pic) and rear hardline that we bent around the A/C line.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y133/AlotLikeLove/IMG_0269.jpg
This is the hardline connecting to the main bulkhead that goes through the firewall right above the throttle cable. We had to move it up about four inches from where it suggests on the Chase Bays website again because the A/C line is in the way.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y133/AlotLikeLove/IMG_0277.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y133/AlotLikeLove/IMG_0278.jpg
This is the two bulkheads going through the firewall on the passenger side.. make sure you drill the holes as high as possible from the inside.. we decided NOT to tear apart the interior (dash) so we had a bit of a hard time drilling the holes high up. Don't mind the third hole.. it's for gauge wires :)

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y133/AlotLikeLove/IMG_0283.jpg
This is the front left brake line going to the bulkhead on the drivers side. The line was a little too long so it makes a loop.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y133/AlotLikeLove/IMG_0286.jpg
This is the main bulkhead with the black T separating the two front brake lines. We had to tighten all the lines on the fittings before we put it up in there because it was a tight squeeze..

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y133/AlotLikeLove/IMG_0287.jpg
This is the passenger side bulkheads with the lines hooked up.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y133/AlotLikeLove/IMG_0288.jpg
The prop valve hooked up on the passenger side. It will sit just by the passengers left foot at all times for easy adjustments if needed. There's plenty of line to relocate the prop valve wherever you need it to be.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y133/AlotLikeLove/IMG_0293.jpg
This is what it looks like tucked in and ready to go :]

At the moment we're bleeding the lines then we'll put it down and take if for a test drive!!!!!!!!! :D

[Bushido]

whats it feel like without the booster?

[godrifttoday]

THAT KINDA SUCKS lines are too short to mount closer to driver seat

[NMs14.5kouki]

yea im also curious how brembo's feel with out the booster? which brembo's are you running anyway?

[dRift_g0ddess]

So we just took it out for a spin and the brakes are very very different. They're hard to press..there's very minimal pedal movement.. it feels like pushing my foot against a solid block wall. Idk i'm not positive but I think I may need to re-bleed them or something, when I drove the car & pushed the brakes as hard as I could, I couldn't lock them up when I tried to :bite:If you haven't ever driven a car with no booster, I suggest trying it to know what it feels like. We played with the prop valve and it's gonna take some fine adjustments to figure out where I really like it. All in all, it looks great.. it was a pretty extensive install, be sure to set aside lots of time for the installation, but it wasn't impossible. Double check you'r kit to be sure you have all the parts. Chase Bays is really good at taking care of anything you need. They are quick with e-mails and phone calls and are available to help with any problems. A+ for customer service :]
I'm planning on driving it to work tomorrow and i'll see how it feels.. we're gonna take out the vacuum block to tighten a fitting cause there's a small leak but other than that I'm satisfied :D!


Finally.. the finished product!! here's a few pics of everything buttoned up!
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y133/AlotLikeLove/IMG_0324.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y133/AlotLikeLove/IMG_0326.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y133/AlotLikeLove/IMG_0325.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y133/AlotLikeLove/IMG_0327.jpg


got a couple little other things done tonight >:] hooked up my new gauge pod
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y133/AlotLikeLove/IMG_0312.jpg
the one on the far left
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y133/AlotLikeLove/IMG_0320.jpg
the orange gauge.. -fuel pressure [:


THAT KINDA SUCKS lines are too short to mount closer to driver seat
nahhh... (assuming you're talking about the prop valve??) like I said, there is more than enough line to relocate the prop valve to wherever you want it. I just chose that spot because I like it.

yea im also curious how brembo's feel with out the booster? which brembo's are you running anyway?
for now i'm running stocks in the rear BUT I have everything to hook up 04 Sti Brembos, just waiting for pads. The fronts are Sentra Spec V Brembos, they bolt right up.


Whelp.. after driving it a bit and maybe re-bleeding the lines i'll get back on here and let everyone know how it goes. Thanks for reading and lmk if you have any other questions!

Byee
-Heather

[Om1kron]

So in a nutshell this kit still needs some fine tuning, that's all I needed to see.

[dRift_g0ddess]

So in a nutshell this kit still needs some fine tuning, that's all I needed to see.

Nahh not really.. it all depends on your setup. I kept my A/C and everything.. Chase Bays has theirs installed on a tore down car with no a/c and no interior. I made it work how I want it :]

[Chase Bays]

This is awesome, great to see this.

Hmm we tried to make it super compatible with A/C, either way an under dash install is always going to be a B with everything in.

Remember that your braking system is 95% full of air now it take a LOT of bleeding. We can easily lock our brakes up on our car so you should be able to as well. :)

PM'd

[Chase Bays]

This is awesome, great to see this.

Hmm we tried to make it super compatible with A/C, either way an under dash install is always going to be a B with everything in.

Remember that your braking system is 95% full of air now it take a LOT of bleeding. We can easily lock our brakes up on our car so you should be able to as well. :)

PM'd

[codyace]

I'm unsure how'd I'd like amodern car without power assist brakes. Granted cars forever ago didn't have them, but I can't see this being a wise choice for track oriented cars.

Either way, it's nice setup. Chasebays always does great stuff.

[dRift_g0ddess]

This is awesome, great to see this.

Hmm we tried to make it super compatible with A/C, either way an under dash install is always going to be a B with everything in.

Remember that your braking system is 95% full of air now it take a LOT of bleeding. We can easily lock our brakes up on our car so you should be able to as well. :)

PM'd

Oh forsure, it wasn't bad at all actually.. but as with every product there's always room for improvement :p I understand it's near impossible to accommodate everyones setup all at once but I think you guys did an amazing job with this!
we're gonna try to bleed the lines a lot more and see what we can get out of em :)

I'm unsure how'd I'd like amodern car without power assist brakes. Granted cars forever ago didn't have them, but I can't see this being a wise choice for track oriented cars.

Either way, it's nice setup. Chasebays always does great stuff.

^very true..but it's not THAT bad. For a purely track built car I probably wouldn't suggest it, but I daily mine and it's nothing you can't get used to by the second stop sign..of course it's gonna be different than power brakes but it's not any worse than my stage 2 clutch.. just kinda balances things out for me ;) and i'm sure the Brembos help too.

[anton1o]

Can you let us know how you go after time.. Interested in the kit but want to atleast retain some form of proper brake pedal feel..

[tukn9s]

I had to bleed mine like 6 or 7 times before i got all the air out, but ya they are super easy to get use to once you have driven it for awhile.

[bb4_96]

So it's a no for track days? Any leaks?

[dRift_g0ddess]

So it's a no for track days? Any leaks?

Nope, no leaks :]as far as track day I'll let you know after I bleed like 5 more times and get the pedal feel right

[EightySix200SX]

nice man ka-t looks good i reffered my buddy to this thread as his ka-t s13 engine space is limited, nice work man!

[godrifttoday]

I driven cars with manual brakes and in my opinion I hate them.... the only reasons I see people wanting to buy them is 1. To get more room for downpipe. 2. Cool factor... I can't imagine the fatigue a person would have on a race track. If their was somehing similar but with help of a booster that would be awesome! Other than that looks nice

[C-unit]

are the hardlines stainless? how did you get to flare them? I have the same flaring tools and it doesn't seems to work for the stainless hard lines.

[godrifttoday]

^
are u using the fitting to create a double flare ?

[C-unit]

you mean the die? I did use it for the double flare.

The lines just keep slipping. I've tighten it to the point that the lines are almost crushed..Yet. It still slips.

[anton1o]

I driven cars with manual brakes and in my opinion I hate them.... the only reasons I see people wanting to buy them is 1. To get more room for downpipe. 2. Cool factor... I can't imagine the fatigue a person would have on a race track. If their was somehing similar but with help of a booster that would be awesome! Other than that looks nice

I guess this is where my post is comming from, I fit into #2, but would really like for it have a good pedal feel when on the track really.

Time will tell i suppose as more and more people begin to fit them and start using them to there full extent.

[japslapsilvia]

you mean the die? I did use it for the double flare.

The lines just keep slipping. I've tighten it to the point that the lines are almost crushed..Yet. It still slips.

are you trying to do a double flare on SS line????

bc you should NOT SS line is too hard for double flare and will crack.

are you trying to do 45* flare or 37*??

[C-unit]

from What I heard, you are not suppose to do single flare on brake lines.

I was using the 45 degree one.

[dRift_g0ddess]

We did a single 37* flare and it works perfect.. all we had to flare was a stock steel hard line. The ss hardline that the kit comes with should already be flared with fittings.. you shouldn't have to tinker with it.
As for brake pedal feel, I contacted the tech Chase Bays and he said that I probably need to bleed the lines a bunch more and possibly adjust the fork that attaches to the brake pedal. I've been driving it as is and surprisingly I'm used to it. Now weather I like it or not is another story but the pedal feel is not right.. we're going to bleed it some more right now and take it out again tonight and hopefully see some improvement.

[japslapsilvia]

from What I heard, you are not suppose to do single flare on brake lines.

I was using the 45 degree one.

for mild steel lines correct.

For SS line single flare will work just fine, for example look at all the repop companies making ss lines for old muscle cars, they are all made with single flare SS line.

[dRift_g0ddess]

Alright guys, so last night we adjusted the fork that connects to the brake pedal.. we just tightened the shaft that attaches the fork and the master cylinder and brought the pedal closer to the firewall which changes the leverage a little bit.. but it definitely helped. (If you do this, be sure to adjust the brake light sensor to keep your brake lights from staying on at all times.) We also bled all lines and although there wasn't many bubbles at all, it still helped.. I still wanna bleed it again this weekend just to be sure.
I think that if you are interested in this kit, you have to accept the fact that there is NO booster so you will never get that "easy braking" again..the space issue for me was a serious problem and this kit was something that I really wanted, so the "feel" of the pedal is a minor change I have to accept and learn to adjust to. Everyone's different, I daily my car so yeah I do want something somewhat comfortable to drive, but at the same time this was the PERFECT solution to all 5 of my problems :) The brakes feel much better than the first test drive, I feel like I have more control.. It still takes a little more strength to stop but I think that's as good as it's gonna get for now. Hoping when I install my rear Brembos I can play with the prop valve and really fine tune everything..

[bb4_96]

are the hardlines stainless? how did you get to flare them? I have the same flaring tools and it doesn't seems to work for the stainless hard lines.

All of Chasebays kits come with hard anodized aluminum AN tube nuts/sleeves and fittings. It's all single 37degree flares. Not 45 degree SAE or bubble flares. Just simple 37 degree single flares.

It should be airly easy to flare the lines. Make sure you use a good flaring tool like the one Rigid makes that Chasebays recommends.

As for flaring:
-don't just wrench it down as hard as you can in one press it never works that way, may even work harden the flare.
-Try running the die down onto the tube a little bit at a time backing off in between. That seems to yeild the best results.
-Get some lube!
-Be sure to ream the burr after cutting.
-Practice on dummy tubing before try your first flare on the tube you just spent 3 hours bending!

Or do all your bending and mocking up then take all your lines to a hydraulic shop to be flared(usually more cost effective as the flaring/cutting tools aren't cheap). Not to mention the hydro shop is less likely to make mistakes like tool marks etc. Remember it's your brake lines.

[dRift_g0ddess]

For those of you waiting for an update:

Got the rear Brembos installed!
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y133/AlotLikeLove/after-1.jpg
Everything works well.
Having the prop valve is a huge plus! Brakes feel amazing, a lot better with the rear Brembos and the prop valve adjusted. I'm pretty used to them now. Of course they're still a little tougher than with the booster but not impossible, and I'd still probably track it :D

Thanks Chase Bays :)

[Clutchkick Murphy]

I'm interested in doing this kit, I have a RHD S13 so its really not about clearence even though the lines are kinda close almost rubbing on my GReddy intake manifold. I vaccuum bled my system and the pedal feel was JUST like pushing againced a brick wall, and when I would drive down the road sometimes the front brakes would engage slightly enough where quite quickly the pads would wear down (within about 1000 miles or so I was changing pads with NO pad left)

I was hoping that the Chase Bays kit would stop this, but maybe I will just see if my booster is shot....sucks. We'll see when it comes out of storage for the spring.