LED Conversion

[chiboy002]

So i've been thinking to do an LED conversion for my s13 tails cause i don't really want Kouki tails

i've got a few questions though

What LEDs should i go with? My main concern being output and viewing angle

What LEDs would look best? So it doesn't look like a bunch of lip up dots (kinda like what 5mm would look like)

If i get SMD, how the hell do i make a board?

any pointers would help - im kinda still searching and using this as a guide (DIY LED lights, tails, etc. (http://www.ziptied.com/forums/index.php?topic=14205.0))

but the problem is his LEDs look like shit (no offense)

Superbrightleds seems to have the best selection out there, with a guarantee for the same output and shit - is there any other places i should look at?

I'll come up with more questions along the way


Kinda off topic also, but would there be a way for me to make it sequential? Like this - I found a write up but the guy gave no info just pictures pretty much
zogPqGRl3As

[chiboy002]

no1 ever done this before??

[240sxrb25]

Yea like 2 ppl then they prbly put oem ones back in

[h2v7]

but the problem is his LEDs look like shit (no offense)


i invented LEDs so i am so offended its not even funny!!!!!!!!!! :rant:

[sickassg35]

:mepoke:What song is that???????

[jzepol1985]

http://zilvia.net/f/off-topic-chat/300761-diy-led-tail-lights.html

[gallo]

i like this actually really cool . . i would like the tails more if the blinker was where the blinker is supposed to be

[chiboy002]

Yea like 2 ppl then they prbly put oem ones back in
get the fuck out.
i invented LEDs so i am so offended its not even funny!!!!!!!!!! :rant:
get the fuck out.
:mepoke:What song is that???????
dj carpi - the power of pleasure remix

http://zilvia.net/f/off-topic-chat/300761-diy-led-tail-lights.html
some of the shit on that is missing, i've seen it before as well.
As well as - it really has no answer to any of my questions and all the LED conversions save the white fc, the origin tails, and the one from speedhunters, all look like shit.

[GSXRJJordan]

I bought a bunch of Piranha SMD LEDs (600 I think) to do R8-style tails (LED-lit rings around the perimeter of each of the 4 taillights) on my FD... I've got the specs on 'em somewhere, but they're very similar to the LEDs the OEMs use.

To even out the "spots" from each bulb, I'll be using 1/4" or 3/8" translucent acrylic, cut into the shape you want to be illuminated. I use Cadence's PCB software to design the boards, and mount the voltage regs off the board but use SMC resistors. Still haven't decided who to have make the actual boards, but it'll be cheap since I'll do the soldering myself.

As far as sequential turn signals, that's easy enough (electrically) to build yourself, or you can get a LED-driver for a couple bucks. Tons of writeups on that once you have the boards made.

[JRwerks]

dang i would like someone to start making some LED tailights for a coupe too that go all the way across! i definately would buy

[smoked240]

I use to work at a company that deals a lot with electronic's and has a shit ton of different boards and LED's and a bunch more. I was thinking of picking some up and get them set for some sort of drop in kit where you just have to mount them in tail lights. I also can get them for really cheap.

[DreEzed]

Start with something small like the third brake light. Get ready to do some math to calculate how many resistors you may need so the LED's don't burn out. Good luck and Ebay is your friend when buying LED's

[SimpleSexy180]

Those tail lights in the youtube video are sick. love the signals

[GSXRJJordan]

dang i would like someone to start making some LED tailights for a coupe too that go all the way across! i definately would buy

Would you pay $400+ for a LED drop in from the back, plus another $100 or so for housings?

Start with something small like the third brake light. Get ready to do some math to calculate how many resistors you may need so the LED's don't burn out. Good luck and Ebay is your friend when buying LED's

That's good advice! You have to calculate the ideal forward voltage for each LED and then probably back off a bit from that, since you want them to last (so use a slightly larger resistor, rather than smaller). Ebay can be helpful if you know EXACTLY what you're looking for... I find a lot of shitty LEDs on ebay all the time.

[JRwerks]

I was thinking more of pre-made s13 coupe tailights with the LED's already mounted inside if sOmeone made something like that then yeahxi would pay $500-$600 basically same price i paid for my kouki tailighta for my hatch

[jubee]

i was talking to HIDillusion about doing a set for me cause i am to lazy to do it my self. but ounce they told me how much they want i was like umm never mind. they basically want 1600 and your tails if you want it exactally like the one in that video. so really all you are paying for is there time, cause LED's are really not that expensive

['97 S14 SE Turbo]

Someone should do more like what BMW is doing, using fiber-optic type methods, with clear acrylic rods/forms, and make pretty looking tailights. With that setup, you don't need a huge number of them. Just look at all the more recent BMWs with the 3-line taillights, there looks to be like 2 or 3 LED per line.

[chiboy002]

I use to work at a company that deals a lot with electronic's and has a shit ton of different boards and LED's and a bunch more. I was thinking of picking some up and get them set for some sort of drop in kit where you just have to mount them in tail lights. I also can get them for really cheap.
yeah my uncle has a hook up on SMD LEDs which is why i was wondering if i should use them, but i don't know how to make a board that would allow me to run those.
I bought a bunch of Piranha SMD LEDs (600 I think) to do R8-style tails (LED-lit rings around the perimeter of each of the 4 taillights) on my FD... I've got the specs on 'em somewhere, but they're very similar to the LEDs the OEMs use.

To even out the "spots" from each bulb, I'll be using 1/4" or 3/8" translucent acrylic, cut into the shape you want to be illuminated. I use Cadence's PCB software to design the boards, and mount the voltage regs off the board but use SMC resistors. Still haven't decided who to have make the actual boards, but it'll be cheap since I'll do the soldering myself.

As far as sequential turn signals, that's easy enough (electrically) to build yourself, or you can get a LED-driver for a couple bucks. Tons of writeups on that once you have the boards made.
So i should use those green boards that real companies make? I was thinking of a waffle board (?) and just having all the wires behind it since i would just need to cut out the shape i need, not create the lines and all that.

So you would say smd is better? I know they have a 90* viewing angle, compared to, say, superflux or some 5mm led's that have 120* angle which would seem better for exterior lights.

I know they have calculators for the resisters and all that out there, i would probably use that or have my uncle help since i have no idea what i would be doing, lol.

As far as the translucent acrylic, i do like it when its just 1 lit up panel like oem does it, but i also like the way the Burst Silvia has it, where its a bunch of small led's that are equally spaced. I just don't want like 50 led's and then being really spread apart, i hate that look. For the translucent board, how exactly would you mount? Onto the glass or over the leds?

[GSXRJJordan]

Using a breadboard is certainly the easier way to prototype, but they don't work well with Piranha (4-prong) LEDs very well, and it becomes a mess of kynar wire behind there - not to mention the probability of making a single mistake is almost 100%, even for me. A printed circuit board (PCB) is virtually guaranteed to be correct, and then all you have to do is mount the components (or pay someone to do it).

My Piranha LEDs are very similar in spec to the superbrightLEDs ones here 5mm High Flux Piranha LED HF5-R5590 Specifications (http://www.superbrightleds.com/cgi-bin/store/index.cgi?action=DispPage&Page2Disp=/specs/hf5-r5590.htm) and are 90* lights. The acrylic will help them stay visible from larger angles, but none of the 120* or 360* LEDs I've seen are nearly bright enough for tail-light and brake light use.

The acrylic can be mounted wherever, but how you do it to maintain brightness and uniformity is a bit of trickery. If you get far enough into the project to be at that stage, message me and I'll help you finish it out, otherwise I'll hold onto that for a future S-chassis product offering.

[chiboy002]

Damn, ok. What is a good mcd for tail lights? Like 5000+ it seems cause SMD led's are 6000mcd and i feel those are common for aftermarket/oem ones.

For the PCB, do i use a program/special printer or what. I've seen people do it by hand but that seems fairly difficult for a noob. If i need a machine my uncle can probably make one for me at work or something.

I'm assuming 500 red led's would be sufficient for the brake/position lights (do i need 1 led for each or does it get brighter like a double filament) and 300 yellow/orange for the turn signals. so 250/150 each.

Then like 50 each for the reverse.

I'm getting my practice tail lights tuesday, hopefully i can start doing this shit. I'm thinking smd ones are the way to go now, which is awesome cause they are also the cheapest lol


This video is what im talking about for making one - YouTube - How to make a PCB (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6WJqjVleG0)

[previa19]

If you get far enough into the project to be at that stage, message me and I'll help you finish it out, otherwise I'll hold onto that for a future S-chassis product offering.

when you say future do you mean sometime within the next couple of months? :D:D

[GSXRJJordan]

Damn, ok. What is a good mcd for tail lights? Like 5000+ it seems cause SMD led's are 6000mcd and i feel those are common for aftermarket/oem ones.

For the PCB, do i use a program/special printer or what. I've seen people do it by hand but that seems fairly difficult for a noob. If i need a machine my uncle can probably make one for me at work or something.

I'm assuming 500 red led's would be sufficient for the brake/position lights (do i need 1 led for each or does it get brighter like a double filament) and 300 yellow/orange for the turn signals. so 250/150 each.

Then like 50 each for the reverse.

I'm getting my practice tail lights tuesday, hopefully i can start doing this shit. I'm thinking smd ones are the way to go now, which is awesome cause they are also the cheapest lol


This video is what im talking about for making one - YouTube - How to make a PCB (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6WJqjVleG0)

I think you have the right idea with the LEDs, that's the neighborhood I was looking at as well. I use Cadence PCB design software and would not print them myself (printing and drilling the board is the cheapest part to out-source). I feel like I have to note that soldering 4 legs each on 300+ LEDs plus both sides of almost a hundred resistors is no small feat... the heat settings have to be fairly constant also, that stuff burns out pretty easy too.

when you say future do you mean sometime within the next couple of months? :D:D

I'd be surprised if I had time to mess with it before the start of the FD season, I've got a bunch more Formula D and Time Attack cars to get done before April. We'll see :)

[chiboy002]

Yeah i threw in like 100 extra of each color for backup in case some burn out. I'm decent at soldering, i'm completely fine with the tedious work it'll take and my hands are somewhat steady which helps out.

But ok, thanks man. This helped so much.

I'll definitely pm you if i have anymore questions, if thats cool, so i don't reveal all your secrets and potentially ruin the possibility of you having a market for the tails one day lol.

Thanks again

[R33E8]

Um... sorry to rain in the parade but don't use resistors to drive the LEDs.. Voltage fluctuations will dim your lights and voltage spikes can burn the LEDs out.. You need to make a constant current power supply for each set of lights.. So as long as you voltage is above 9v or 12v the LEDs will stay the same brightness..

Also, if you want OEM quality LEDs, you need Cree P4's or Lumileds Superflux red-orange LEDs. DO NOT BUY SUPERBRIGHTLED.COM or EBAY NO NAME LEDS.. I don't know how many times I have to say this and people never believe me.. They are all shit and I don't care what anyone on this forum says otherwise.. With the Cree P4's and or Lumileds, you can get away with only using 20 LEDs per light and have it bright enough.. To diffuse to the light you can use those florescent panel covers from Homedepot or Lowes.. Obviously the more LEDs you use, the less current you will need to achieve the same amount of power, the longer they will last, and the light will be more diffused.. The downside is it will cost a lot more..

Im half asleep so sorry if this makes little sense.. check out hidplanet.com LED forums for more info on it.. checkout candlepowerforums.com LED section for more info about leds than you will ever need to know..

[chiboy002]

well seeing as this is kinda a DIY type of deal, i don't want to go all out and buy oem-quality LEDs. I'm sure pirahna led's are great, or even the ones my uncle gets since he works at some engineering joint making equipment for important shit. As well as, yeah i know i gotta make the power constant. I'll probably gut the white parts that the sockets go into and use that to store the pcb and all components needed, or just bolt it to somewhere behind the lights.

As for making separate power supplies? What? I'm just going to tap it into the car's wiring so it'll be plug and play and it'll have some kinda of stabilizer so it doesn't dim too much, even though i run minimal electronics in my car. I don't want two batteries chilling in my trunk lol.

Hidplanet is good and all, i some times lurk it, but to be honest, from a noob standpoint, i understand nothing on that site. They talk to each other throwing out abbreviations and words that people who are into that sort of think would know; me, i'm just someone who wants to experiment. These things will probably break soon anyways, and when they do i'll either remake it or buy clearcorner ones or something.


edit: i saw the cree p4's those things look bright as shit but still, i don't want to spend anywhere near like 800$ for this. i'm looking at around 500$ for all the led's alone, not including the pcb and components. This is a hobbyist attempt, not something i want to last forever lol

[GSXRJJordan]

Um... sorry to rain in the parade but don't use resistors to drive the LEDs.. Voltage fluctuations will dim your lights and voltage spikes can burn the LEDs out.. You need to make a constant current power supply for each set of lights.. So as long as you voltage is above 9v or 12v the LEDs will stay the same brightness..

I believe I noted that I use voltage regulators on each circuit, but if I didn't, good observation. They're extremely cheap, and last pretty well.

Also, if you want OEM quality LEDs, you need Cree P4's or Lumileds Superflux red-orange LEDs. DO NOT BUY SUPERBRIGHTLED.COM or EBAY NO NAME LEDS.. I don't know how many times I have to say this and people never believe me.. They are all shit and I don't care what anyone on this forum says otherwise.. With the Cree P4's and or Lumileds, you can get away with only using 20 LEDs per light and have it bright enough.. To diffuse to the light you can use those florescent panel covers from Homedepot or Lowes.. Obviously the more LEDs you use, the less current you will need to achieve the same amount of power, the longer they will last, and the light will be more diffused.. The downside is it will cost a lot more..

Im half asleep so sorry if this makes little sense.. check out hidplanet.com LED forums for more info on it.. checkout candlepowerforums.com LED section for more info about leds than you will ever need to know..

My opinion on where to buy LEDs is not to buy any LEDs that don't have comprehensive specs attached. If you really think a huge site like SuperbrightLEDs is going to publish bogus specs, that's on you... if you think the specs on those LEDs aren't as good/high as Cree's or Lumileds, that's legit, and goes well with your next point (less than max current = longer life). I will say that buying twice as many "mid-range" LEDs to make the same light as half as many "premium" LEDs will be cheaper, and with something with as much area as a car taillight, might offer a better look.

Good ops on the links too, there are certainly some LED nerds on both forums.

[Bushido]

i gotz some of those LED thangs

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v259/domeniccucunato/my%20240sx/P1010204Large.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v259/domeniccucunato/my%20240sx/FxCam_1294283210177.jpg

[Forge_55b]

Hidplanet has a decent enough beginner faq thread that gives you some decent knowledge. If you can't figure out the beginner stuff however, you might want to keep reading until you do. I built my setup just reading other peoples threads and just figuring out what i need

[chiboy002]

yeah i usually just searched s13/240sx conversion

never really read the stickies lol

[R33E8]

well seeing as this is kinda a DIY type of deal, i don't want to go all out and buy oem-quality LEDs. I'm sure pirahna led's are great, or even the ones my uncle gets since he works at some engineering joint making equipment for important shit. As well as, yeah i know i gotta make the power constant. I'll probably gut the white parts that the sockets go into and use that to store the pcb and all components needed, or just bolt it to somewhere behind the lights.

As for making separate power supplies? What? I'm just going to tap it into the car's wiring so it'll be plug and play and it'll have some kinda of stabilizer so it doesn't dim too much, even though i run minimal electronics in my car. I don't want two batteries chilling in my trunk lol.


No, by a separate power supply I meant something to take the 12-14.4V from the car to a constant current to send to the LEDs.. Like a simple LM317 voltage regulator and appropriate resistor..

Damn, ok. What is a good mcd for tail lights? Like 5000+ it seems cause SMD led's are 6000mcd and i feel those are common for aftermarket/oem ones.


Most of LEDs rated in MCD are over rated.. MCD is just derived from the viewing angle and luminous output.. The viewing angle is usually OK but the actual luminous output is probably overrated.. Even quality LED manufacturers like Cree give outputs that are only seen in "Ideal condition" (25C die temp).. Once the LED is turned on and warms up, the output drops..

But anyways, a good "angle" for tail light LEDs is between 30 and 70 degrees.. The output is up to you..


I'm assuming 500 red led's would be sufficient for the brake/position lights (do i need 1 led for each or does it get brighter like a double filament) and 300 yellow/orange for the turn signals. so 250/150 each.

Then like 50 each for the reverse.


I think you are using way too many LEDs and will be setting yourself up for some disheartening problems in the future.. If you do some research and put bits and pieces together, you will see that you can end up using a single LED for each reverse and have it 10 times brighter than using a 50 cheap LED array... It will look like a single light source and probably cost less money too..


My opinion on where to buy LEDs is not to buy any LEDs that don't have comprehensive specs attached. If you really think a huge site like SuperbrightLEDs is going to publish bogus specs, that's on you...

I don't think they have bogus specs, it's just that they post the specs in a similar style you would see on ebay LEDs listing.. What I would like to see is a comprehensive spec sheet with binning data, output vs current, current vs voltage, output vs temp, etc...

The biggest problem I have with them is that they don't bin the LEDs. Therefore when buying large quantities of LEDs (maybe over 60 or so..) the brightness, forward voltage, and tint can differ widely.. You can end up with an LED array that looks uneven and cheap.. (not saying you "will" but it is very possible)

The differing forward voltage is the biggest problem with un-binned LEDs.. It can also cause problem with LEDs flickering due to the supplied voltage being out of range for a string in series.. It can also cause problems which would make some strings wired in parallel receive more current than others.. Depending on how large the voltage difference is, some strings will be brighter than others and other will burn out faster due to being driven over the "max current".. There are ways to get around this problem but then the circuit starts to get a little bit more complex and time consuming..

Hidplanet has a decent enough beginner faq thread that gives you some decent knowledge. If you can't figure out the beginner stuff however, you might want to keep reading until you do. I built my setup just reading other peoples threads and just figuring out what i need

I agree... Why waste time and money winging it when all the info to do it right the first time is available...

[chiboy002]

oooooh ok, yeah ill look into that
i was like why the fuck would i put a battery set in the back? lol

anyways, thanks for the great helps guys. I'll update the thread as i move on and more problems arise

[chiboy002]

my uncle gave me 3 "no good" led strips that are being made for another car company. They fit the s13 tails but slightly curve down-ward, shape of their lights, and leave a good 2 inch gap.

I'll be testing the look on the s13 hatch tails with these, they are SMD LEDs which are the best bang for the buck, i'll update one day.

[h2v7]

audi lookin leg strips?

[chiboy002]

audi lookin leg strips?
naw its like a super slight curve, they're red as well

the strip has no identification as to what its for but thats what my uncle said