Garrett GTX compressor wheel on GT2871R

[guitaraholic]

Could you use the new GTX compressor wheel on the GT2871R? I believe the wheel on the GT3071R and the GT2871R are the same. I believe you can upgrade your current GT3071r to the GTX3071R via a compressor wheel change. That being the case, couldn't you swap out the old compressor wheel of the GT2871R with the GTX wheel?

Granted with the extra 10% or more flow you would have to go external WG to keep from choking the turbo from the extra exhaust flow from the extra power the turbo is creating.

[S13 curtis]

Could you use the new GTX compressor wheel on the GT2871R? I believe the wheel on the GT3071R and the GT2871R are the same. I believe you can upgrade your current GT3071r to the GTX3071R via a compressor wheel change. That being the case, couldn't you swap out the old compressor wheel of the GT2871R with the GTX wheel?

Granted with the extra 10% or more flow you would have to go external WG to keep from choking the turbo from the extra exhaust flow from the extra power the turbo is creating.

if what your saying is true then yes, but im pretty sure itsa different trim and compressor housing so it prolly hs to get sent in but i would call first.

[s15lover]

I just ordered a BN gt3071r CHRA off ebay for dirt! I'm now looking for an .86 A/R Gtir exhaust housing and not sure on the comp housing I'm going to go with...but I'm planning on as soon as it gets here selling the comp wheel and replacing it with the gtx spec unit...you should upgrade the wheel...there's always machine shops that can make it fit right.

[fliprayzin240sx]

Changing the wheel is one thing but making sure its balanced is another. More than likely, you'd have to send your CHRA to Garrett for them to change the wheel and rebalance it.

[Synergy]

After talking with 10+ diff people this is deffinetly possible. And no you dont need to balance it. The thing garret doesnt tell you is that the wheels get balanced individually. I was told by a Garrett rep to not repeat this but hes had 100 people get just a wheel instead of a CHRA rebuild and none to his knowledge have had any issues with the new wheel. He said you can also find garrett parts on ebay etc and I could get a wheel for 100$ or so. I have a similar issue. Compressor wheel damage on a otherwise decent turbo.

[holemilk00]

^you were lied to buddy. Sorry.

[jr_ss]

As of right now, you cannot buy just wheels, not to mention it's not cost prohibitive for Garrett to do this. It has to be the entire CHRA/Compressor housing. The old GT series exhaust housings will fit the new CHRA's.

[Synergy]

You can most certainly buy wheels. No directly from Garrett but you can buy them on ebay anytime youd like.....

[Synergy]

Just because you guys wont belive me here....
Garrett Compressor Wheel, GT2871R, 71mm 56 trim Genuine | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Garrett-Compressor-Wheel-GT2871R-71mm-56-trim-Genuine-/380296239014)


Its what you guys have all been told. They arnt rebuildable they arnt rebuildable. Its BS. They dont want to sell the wheel so you have to buy a CHRA. You dont NEED a CHRA if your wheel is messed up but there is no shaft play....

[steve shadows]

It's definitely possible but makes sure you have the turbo rebalanced professionally before you go loading it up with boost.

[holemilk00]

^^^exactly. I'm not saying you can't buy the parts. But I know for a fact you can't just swap wheels and throw it back on and roll out and not have problems later. The parts are cheap, the labor for a rebalance is the expensive part.

[jr_ss]

Just because you guys wont belive me here...

That's not a GTX compressor wheel...?

[Synergy]

Correct I havnt found any GTX wheels yet but you said they dont sell parts individually... Which is false. And the wheels are INDEPENDENTLY balanced. If I find a GTX wheel somewhere I will throw it into my gt2871 just to show it can be done. People will listen to whatever their told. If people started being able to buy gtx wheels and put them on non GTX turbos they would go out of business. Its only smart of them to say you need a full CHRA replacement.

[jr_ss]

I was referring to the GTX wheels. You know, the topic of this thread...

Garrett is not going to sell just the new wheels, they wouldnt sell any new turbos and it's bad business. Now replacement parts for the older obsolete turbo's should be available.

The unit has to be balanced as a whole, you can't just throw in a new wheel and expect it to be balanced at 130000rpms.

[Synergy]

IDK and the GT series turbos your not supposed to be able to get individual parts for. And like I said the wheels already come balanced.... Hence why you can find just the wheel.... What DIYer who buys the wheel has a 200k rpm balancer at their house...

Turbo Balancing - Gpop Shop - DSM Forums (http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/363020-turbo-balancing-gpop-shop.html) Read this. I know its DSM but a DSM guy I know who rebuilds turbos for a living explains it. That on component balanced turbos (garretts GT series) a Balance is not needed as long as there is no other damage to the turbo that would throw balance out.

[Synergy]

And just for some more proof...

Rebuilding ball bearing turbos: Found a company who can do it - HomemadeTurbo - DIY Turbo Forum (http://www.homemadeturbo.com/forced-induction-7/rebuilding-ball-bearing-turbos-found-company-who-can-do-98409/)

A guy in this thread rebuilt his gt35 put a new wheel on it DIDNT balance it and he said 3k later still golden.....

Can you just concede that it is completely possible.... Or do I need to find even more examples.

Its not like your the only one JR. What you have been told is exactly what everyone else has been told. The worlds no longer flat.

[Synergy]

rebuilding a ball bearing turbo (http://www.toymods.org.au/forums/tech-conversions/67473-rebuilding-ball-bearing-turbo.html)

Aussie forum with a guy rebuilding his own gt35. He says its still going strong at the end of the post. And what he did is even worse! He took all the bearings apart and took the whole CHRA apart. He put it back together with a new compressor wheel and ya know what.... it works!

[Magical Trevor]

Everything on the Internet is true.

[Synergy]

He took pictures of it. Go read that thread. Look at his disassembled gt35.... Oh i bet hes faking It. I bet the guy took his gt35 apart and had garrett send him a new CHRA just so he could tell his forum buddys he did it all by himself.

Right.


Why is everyone so Ignorant about this? Theres actually a guy in NZ who makes ball bearing cartidges for garrett and apparently had great success. But these turbos are not rebuildable.

I cant believe the suckers that bought 6 of those gt28 wheels online only to find out they cant use them.



/sarcasm.

[holemilk00]

Just because someone has done this, an has their turbo back together and it is making boost doesn't mean it isn't out of balance and slowly doing damage to the housings that can't be fixed down the road. And everyone you posted as proof is only a couple thousand miles into the rebuild. Lets see those housings after 40k miles. That's where you will see the unusual wear of things being out of balance. If it makes it that long before it starts blowing seals. I'm sorry, I've worked in high end shops where we balanced turbos, you can't just slap parts together and expect them to last at those type of rpms. Will it work short term? Hell yeah, sometimes, and there are plenty of examples of that. But there are probably 10 examples of premature failure for every unicorn case you post saying "I'm 400 miles in and my shits still roses."

[Synergy]

We are frequently asked by customers who purchase our rebuild kits if the turbo will need to be rebalanced after they complete the rebuild. You will not need to have your turbo rebalanced if the following applies:

Neither of the wheels (compressor and/or turbine) have touched or rubbed the housings
There are no worn, chipped, or bent fins on either of the wheels
You were careful to mark the position of the wheels in relationship to each other prior to disassembly and rebuilding, and then realigned these marks upon reassembly





G-Pop Shop (http://gpopshop.com) < They rebuild turbos and thats on their website......
How much more do you zilvians need? Need me to fly you to my house so we can do this one together?

[holemilk00]

^^notice they aren't CHANGING wheels?? You are marking your wheel so you can put it back where it was. Do I need to explain reading comprehension to you?? Or fly out there and read along with you?

[Synergy]

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http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:honda-tech.com/get//images/icons/icon1.gif Re: (btrim23)
Just remember that there are 3 different ball bearing systems on the market, each with its own advantages and disadvantages. The Garrett uses a single sleeve system with a set of two angular contact ball bearings on either end with no journal bearing. Here are the advantages:

1) Reduced amount of oil flow for adequate lubrication. Lower oil volume reduces the chance for seal leakage and is more tolerant of marginal lube conditions.

2) Better damping and control over shaft motion for better reliability under extreme conditions (e.g. street racing). This system also eliminates the need for a thrust bearing, which is a common weak link in journal bearing turbos.

3) Decrease in lag time by about 15% over journal bearing turbos. This gives you better acceleration, particularly in the 0 to 60 mph range.

4) The Garrett system is also quicker spooling that some competitor's single ball bearing system. Since a single bearing system can only take thrust in one direction, a thrust bearing is still necessary in competitor's systems. The drag on the turbine side journal bearing is still there.

Finally . . .
*These systems are water-cooled, but we can also build a water cooled journal bearing if someone so desires.

*We do rebuild the Garrett ball bearing turbos that we sell.

*Journal bearing turbos will last . . . if you take care of them. Mine is 19 years old, but I am switching over to a ball bearing myself.

Rod Short
Sales Manager
Precision Turbo


Call rod short... If he even exists... He is on the internet cant believe anything on the internet.

[Synergy]

^^notice they aren't CHANGING wheels?? You are marking your wheel so you can put it back where it was. Do I need to explain reading comprehension to you?? Or fly out there and read along with you?



Are you dumb? If my compressor wheel is chipped and my other wheel is fine and I order a new compressor wheel I can install it and use the turbo.


THATS WHAT ALL OF YOU SAY I CANT DO. When your statement contradicts it.

They said if the parts are component balanced and neither of the wheels have damage then you can do it.... So if you replace your damaged wheels then theres no issue.... They would be new... They would be balanced. They would work. Questions?

So back to the original topic...

We have figured out this much so far boys.


The gtx compressor wheel will fit into older style GT housings. Correct?
If neither of your wheels have damage you can rebuild your turbo (or order new undamaged wheels) Correct?

I just cant believe how many people trust Honeywell.....They are in business to make a profit you know how much money they make on those replacement CHRAs? 600-1000$ times the thousands of turbos they rebuild....

They are pissing on your back and telling you its raining.

[Synergy]

And it needing to be balanced is dependent on who you talk to.... if it does need to be balanced gshop does it for 100$.... Still 10000000x better than having to get a new CHRA. order a wheel for 130 send it to a shop have it balanced and have a rebuilt DBB turbo for 230$...

[holemilk00]

And it needing to be balanced is dependent on who you talk to.... if it does need to be balanced gshop does it for 100$.... Still 10000000x better than having to get a new CHRA. order a wheel for 130 send it to a shop have it balanced and have a rebuilt DBB turbo for 230$...

Yes, and this technique has been used over and over again. It's not new info.

[Synergy]

Hole milk the people I was argueing with in this thread said you cant rebuild it at all and you cant buy a wheel by itself.... I thank you for atleast coming around.

Anyways the point is Garrett DBB turbos are most definitely rebuild able by your average joe... With most likely the help of a balancing job..


Im going to try to find a GTX wheel and swap wheels and get it balanced and I will post the results here.

[Synergy]

And i understand what your saying with it not lasting too long that way and it could have just been lucky that they got it close to balanced.... But how much of a pain is balancing a turbo... Forced Inductions is a garrett distributor and only charges 55$ a balance.... Seems real cheap.

So why do people say you need to order a whole CHRA if we have now come to the agreement that you dont?

[240sxfan6882]

Delete my post please.

[PoorMans180SX]

The GT and GTX wheels differ in size. You will either have to buy a new compressor cover or get yours machined. Also, if you're planning on using a GTX3071 wheel, it has a bigger exducer, and you will need to have the CHRA machined.

It's also pointless because the NS111 turbine wheel is already maxed out on a 2871R, so a bigger compressor is only going to make marginally more power.

[richmond82]

^^notice they aren't CHANGING wheels?? You are marking your wheel so you can put it back where it was. Do I need to explain reading comprehension to you?? Or fly out there and read along with you?


Hillarious...

Could you fly out and help me with some Calculus ?

LOL

[slider2828]

My question is why would you.... Most of the time, if you blow a seal or run low on oil, you basically will destroy the fins on the wheel.... Thats just how it is....

I talked to ATP Turbo extensively.

1st they have a BB Exchange Program. Basically you send in your OLD blown whatever CHRA. For 450+ shipping you get a BRAND NEW CHRA.....

Then you have to talk to them to upgrade the wheels, which I am in talks with.

But if you buy a new one, there is an upgrade to the new GTX. Just call up atpturbo.com....

Basically give them a call up and they will tell you what you can and cannot do.

[[email protected]]

Hey Zilvia,

Sorry for the lack of official introduction, but we felt we had to chime in here...

-Ball Bearing turbos can be rebuilt (we have an upgraded ceramic ball bearing rebuild kit, Garrett is steel ball bearing)

-Genuine Garrett ball bearing cast compressor wheels can be bought separately

-Genuine Garrett ball bearing Billet GTX compressor wheels cannot be bought separately (at this time)

-PureTurbos does have over 600 different billet wheels available including 11-blade extended tip wheels (PTX Wheels) to fit Garrett ball bearing turbos and most other turbos (GT28, GT30, GT35, 18G, 20G, 60-1, 18T, 50trim, 57trim, 60trim, etc...)

-A properly rebuilt turbo (journal bearing or ball bearing) needs to be component balanced AND cartridge balanced to meet industry standards for balance tolerances

-Cartridges which are only component balanced are usually 1.5-2.5 gr/in out of balance when tested on our cartridge balancing machine. After being balanced on our machine, they come out between 0.01-0.08 gr/in

-PureTurbos does have a cartridge balancing machine (all our turbos and rebuilds are cartridge balanced). Most turbo shops do not have a cartridge balancing machine

-Precision Turbo does NOT have a cartridge balancing machine, only their "aftermarket replacement" line are cartridge balanced (because they are assembled elsewhere, not in the USA)

-Turbonetics does use a cartridge balancing machine

These are just facts, feel free to ask questions and we will do our best to answer them. :2f2f:

PureTurbos
Oceanside, CA

[guitaraholic]

I broke down and got a used gt2860RS w/.64 housing. There is no shaft place, and turbine wheel looks good. The compressor wheel is "okay" but is a little rough. So I figure a replacement is in order.

There are a few places out there to get a billet compressor wheels in 71mm. I'm thinkg about going with a company called Snail Turbo (anyone used them, all reviews online are postiive). They are offering both the 6-blade and 11-blade (GTX style?). I am assuming the SNX designation means they are modeling off the GTX compressor design. They both have the same specs
Dual 6-Blade & 11-Blade

- IND/EXD-----53.1mm/71mm
- Hub Length--6mm

I know "as discussed previously in this post", Even if modeled after the GTX, there won't be that much more top end. This part does not concern me, what does concern me is spool time. Would going with the 11-blade cause it to spool later?