Test Mule. Solid Sub frame Risers off ebay and they are legit.

[[email protected]]

So my friends and I wanted PBM Solid subframe risers and even tho they say 100bux on PBMs site with CA tax and shipping they come out to 127 for the set. But by mistake we searched on ebay and found another company selling them. So we pulled straws and I lost :( . But now that the parts came they are legit!!!

Fast shipping which was nice but the quality of the bushings are amazing. My other friend got PBM a while back and they are exactly the same. Same size and both 6061.

So to clarify.... PBM=127shipped and Ebay R&R place=85shipped

Im super excited to put them in as mine are shot in the 14.

Here is the link to the ebay place. I did not find anyone else with them anywhere besides PBM
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/R-R-Nissan-240sx-S13-S14-Solid-Subframe-Bushing-Risers-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem230b23cc85QQitemZ15051 0750853QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccesso ries

Some pics to show you

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc305/Boxysquadstyle/photo5-1.jpg
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc305/Boxysquadstyle/photo3-2.jpg
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc305/Boxysquadstyle/photo4-1.jpg



(http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/R-R-Nissan-240sx-S13-S14-Solid-Subframe-Bushing-Risers-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem230b23cc85QQitemZ15051 0750853QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccesso ries)

[tricky_ab]

So your friend didn't want to pony up the extra $27 to get what he originally wanted?

[SochBAT]

why not just pay the 27bucks and support your local shop? Tsk tsk.

[surge s14]

waiting for the installed pics

[Renelovesnike]

Would have made sense if the ebay's where significantly cheaper in price but its like 27 chicken sandwiches difference!!!

i know im going pbm solid raisers, but hope theze work out/fit good for u! :)

[soreballz]

I wish PBM would quit fucking around and make offset subframe risers already.

[fckillerbee]

I wish PBM would quit fucking around and make offset subframe risers already.


ummm...what? and by what...i mean....what do you mean in regards to "offset"

[[email protected]]

So your friend didn't want to pony up the extra $27 to get what he originally wanted?

why not just pay the 27bucks and support your local shop? Tsk tsk.

Would have made sense if the ebay's where significantly cheaper in price but its like 27 chicken sandwiches difference!!!

i know im going pbm solid raisers, but hope theze work out/fit good for u! :)

The place is in California it seems. It came from Norcal Area Race&Republic. Whats even more funny is im in norcal also and never heard of it. Has to be new.

and 2nd

127 is the PBM price
85 is the R&R price

127-85=42bux

Some of you guys must be ballers but that 42bux I can use for gas or mounting tires again....lol

[soreballz]

ummm...what? and by what...i mean....what do you mean in regards to "offset"
Offset as in, the hole is off-center, so you can use an S14 subframe in an S13. As of now, I *think* SPL is the only company that makes them, but they're costly thanks to all the extra doohickeys they come with that I don't need.

SPL solid subframe conversion bushings 240SX S13 S14 - SPL PARTS (http://splparts.com/store/product-info.php?pid15.html)


(Yeah, my posts are off topic, so what, ya wanna fight about it?)

[PoorMans180SX]

Way to buy another Ebay knockoff and screw over PSM who did all the research and development.

This is what I call the "Wal-Mart mentality".

[fckillerbee]

so you cheaped out and bought ebay for a $42 dollar savings that will save you what? a few hours worth of your paycheck.....all to fuck pbm's rnd? Granted I buy cheap shit....but its from the locals....gotta support your community....they actually do give back.

[dudermagee]

not sure how they are legit
1. you haven't even used them yet
2. They are knockoffs
stop being such a cheapskate, support the community and future inovations, buy the real deal

[icedsole]

its like, why would you buy the silver ones, when you could have cool gold ones
for 40 bucks more.

idk

[Katsumbhong]

Hold Up HOLD UP!

It's his own damn money! He can spend it however the fcuk he wants to!

[icedsole]

no man this is zilvia !

[STEEZxIT]

Whats with all the PBM's snatch scratchers??

for some people $40 can go a long way. Hell thats a Formula for my toddler for 1 week or so.

If you talkin about supportin your local shop or what-not, why dont the shop drop their price? im sure these ebay are the same material as what they use. They want to rack up the price because of their cool name. w/e.

I have Megan tracks coilovers. bout the same price as PBM's. why pick PBM over megan? why not? I personally love the way it rides.

[gerson408]

Whats with all the PBM's snatch scratchers??

for some people $40 can go a long way. Hell thats a Formula for my toddler for 1 week or so.

If you talkin about supportin your local shop or what-not, why dont the shop drop their price? im sure these ebay are the same material as what they use. They want to rack up the price because of their cool name. w/e.

I have Megan tracks coilovers. bout the same price as PBM's. why pick PBM over megan? why not? I personally love the way it rides.


The Truth why would i pay that extra amount for a orange color??

[singlecamslam]

Yea but for 40 dollars more you get a piece of mind that they were tested. These ebay ones could fall apart for all i know, and if you had your toddler in the back seat, well you get the idea.

[STEEZxIT]

The Truth why would i pay that extra amount for a orange color??

truth be told brotha. lol....

if you were siding with me.

but really, Ebay is a hit or miss. even their quick release and deep dish steering wheel.

People pay $100+ for a deep dish wheel when you can get em on EBAY for $40 shipped. Same design, stiching. depth of the wheel and size. i guess you really do pay extra for the "name".. quick releases are $30 shipped on ebay, ive owned 3. and none of em gave me problem.

If people want to pay extra for whats called "quality" and name brand. let it be it. but vice versa for the people who is taking their chances.

[holemilk00]

Keep in mind there is no accountability for the ebay ones to guarantee they are actually 6061. Its ebay, they can say they are made of titanium and you can't do crap about if when you get them and they are made of chalk except give them bad feedback.

[STEEZxIT]

Yea but for 40 dollars more you get a piece of mind that they were tested. These ebay ones could fall apart for all i know, and if you had your toddler in the back seat, well you get the idea.

1. its aluminum risers. if the OEM rubber doesnt fall apart and cause an accident, highly doubt this would.
2. I dont intend to put my toddler on any 240sx. or civic. but that's jst me. Theres my peace of mind.

Peace of mind do come to play alot. but does PBM test EACH AND EVERYONE of their product before shipping it out? They design it and test only ONE and go from there.


but iono. im not tryna to escalate an argument where people get offended. jst stating my .02.

[gerson408]

why not just pay the 27bucks and support your local shop? Tsk tsk.


thats 27 Bucks to your local shop Pal. were over here in norcal we gotta pay the extra amount for shipping.

[KiLLeR2001]

I wouldn't buy ebay suspension parts if you paid me.

[STEEZxIT]

Keep in mind there is no accountability for the ebay ones to guarantee they are actually 6061. Its ebay, they can say they are made of titanium and you can't do crap about if when you get them and they are made of chalk except give them bad feedback.

true story. cant argue there. but what makes you think PBM's aint doing the same thing to save a few bucks on their end naw'mean.

kinda like that EBAY suspension thread ive read here. Dude likes it, and its holdin up pretty well. i personally wouldnt take chances that low, but they like em' and thats what matters.

OP slap em on and let us know how it is. Peace Zilvia.

[Marcus]

duudee. come on..




i mean seriously. wtf. knock off parts? i hate you people.


Whats with all the PBM's snatch scratchers??

for some people $40 can go a long way. Hell thats a Formula for my toddler for 1 week or so.

.

understood. im all for saving money. everyone is looking for the deepest discounts.

but if formula is a priority, then subframe risers are should not even be considered. besides, subframe risers are not even a necessity. that $85 couldve been spent somewhere better.

so OP can afford to buy something so recreational/unnecessary as the risers, but cant man up and buy a legit part. weak



true story. cant argue there. but what makes you think PBM's aint doing the same thing to save a few bucks on their end naw'mean.



i guarantee they are whatever Dan says they are.

[RurouniMidnight]

i only use PSM risers in my subframe...but really local shops that put in the effort.
http://www.axiomotion.com/files/26/subframe%20shananigins%202.jpg

[singlecamslam]

I'm just waiting for this guy to install them. Oh and comparing megan coilovers to PBM is a joke. Ride on megans for over 20k miles than say they ride nice. I had my Stance coils forever, even hit a curb, never broke, i dont think megans can do that.

[STEEZxIT]

I'm just waiting for this guy to install them. Oh and comparing megan coilovers to PBM is a joke. Ride on megans for over 20k miles than say they ride nice. I had my Stance coils forever, even hit a curb, never broke, i dont think megans can do that.

I guess ill have to see. im hittin 5K on my Megans.

[holemilk00]

true story. cant argue there. but what makes you think PBM's aint doing the same thing to save a few bucks on their end naw'mean.

kinda like that EBAY suspension thread ive read here. Dude likes it, and its holdin up pretty well. i personally wouldnt take chances that low, but they like em' and thats what matters.

OP slap em on and let us know how it is. Peace Zilvia.

I agree to a point, no real harm in trying something out, just be aware of what consumer laws protect you. As for accountability between PBM and ebay, PBM has to have a US Tax ID number, alone with a business license because they are a wholesaler, an ebay seller doesn't. That means that if PBM has problems, they have to carry insurance to cover their liability, can you guess what happens if you buy something off eBay and it fails on you and someone gets hurt? Just read the ToS for eBay, we use it in grad school as an example of loop holing and most of my professors are amazed that the government still allows people to do business on eBay because there are no laws for consumers that cover it. You're basically out in the cold. For example, if I build a gokart and sell it at a yard sale, the gokart breaks and kills or severely injures the kids riding it, I have liability because of how the transaction took place. Now if I had sold the same gokart on eBay then I have no legal liability to the buyer for the failure of the gokart, eBay's TOS protects me as a seller, and any buyer agrees to it when you create an account.

Sorry I know that was really off topic, and these are subframe spacers so even if they fail chances of anyone getting hurt are EXTREMELY slim, just thought I would put some information out there.

[STEEZxIT]

duudee. come on..




i mean seriously. wtf. knock off parts? i hate you people.




understood. im all for saving money. everyone is looking for the deepest discounts.

but if formula is a priority, then subframe risers are should not even be considered. besides, subframe risers are not even a necessity. that $85 couldve been spent somewhere better.

so OP can afford to buy something so recreational/unnecessary as the risers, but cant man up and buy a legit part. weak

True. i see what you talkin about, but for me. Im not goen the route some of you guys might want to head. Dooing it big going to FD or D1 or what not. So ofcourse you want quality name brand parts. I jst buy em for shits and giggles. Its a phase for me thats all. Really dont want to be over spending on parts.

[STEEZxIT]

I agree to a point, no real harm in trying something out, just be aware of what consumer laws protect you. As for accountability between PBM and ebay, PBM has to have a US Tax ID number, alone with a business license because they are a wholesaler, an ebay seller doesn't. That means that if PBM has problems, they have to carry insurance to cover their liability, can you guess what happens if you buy something off eBay and it fails on you and someone gets hurt? Just read the ToS for eBay, we use it in grad school as an example of loop holing and most of my professors are amazed that the government still allows people to do business on eBay because there are no laws for consumers that cover it. You're basically out in the cold. For example, if I build a gokart and sell it at a yard sale, the gokart breaks and kills or severely injures the kids riding it, I have liability because of how the transaction took place. Now if I had sold the same gokart on eBay then I have no legal liability to the buyer for the failure of the gokart, eBay's TOS protects me as a seller, and any buyer agrees to it when you create an account.

Sorry I know that was really off topic, and these are subframe spacers so even if they fail chances of anyone getting hurt are EXTREMELY slim, just thought I would put some information out there.

No you're right, i see what you're saying. And i support on what PBM's are doing. But to me, this whole 240sx is a phase, like i stated above. Im not tryna to make a career out of it. So something i can swing by and use for a few months or so. Ill go for it. When it comes to really important car parts, water pump, brakes and such. i dont go cheap on those.

[PoorMans180SX]

It's not about the name, it's about the company behind the name.

When you spend more on the PSM risers, you're supporting a company that you know is going to go out and invest that money in developing new, innovative, awesome parts for the S-chassis.

The ebay brand just buys a pair of PSM risers, takes them to a CNC operator, makes a bunch of them, and then sells them for cheaper because they have less invested. Then when another new cool part comes out, they do the same thing. It's not just copying a product, it's stealing an idea.

[[email protected]]

so you cheaped out and bought ebay for a $42 dollar savings that will save you what? a few hours worth of your paycheck.....all to fuck pbm's rnd? Granted I buy cheap shit....but its from the locals....gotta support your community....they actually do give back.

Actually sir it ends up the place I got the bushings from on EBAY is local. So in other words I am. I live in norcal and the zip it came from is a Norcal Zipcode.

[[email protected]]

Keep in mind there is no accountability for the ebay ones to guarantee they are actually 6061. Its ebay, they can say they are made of titanium and you can't do crap about if when you get them and they are made of chalk except give them bad feedback.

So I took the risers to 2 local machine shops and they all said its 6061 aluminum. WTF is gonna break........?? Its a solid piece of CNC aluminum..

[[email protected]]

It's not about the name, it's about the company behind the name.

When you spend more on the PSM risers, you're supporting a company that you know is going to go out and invest that money in developing new, innovative, awesome parts for the S-chassis.

The ebay brand just buys a pair of PSM risers, takes them to a CNC operator, makes a bunch of them, and then sells them for cheaper because they have less invested. Then when another new cool part comes out, they do the same thing. It's not just copying a product, it's stealing an idea.

Sure..... you might say that. So you know how you can usually go to a place and they sell other peoples product.... like a shop or a distributor or a dealer. Well people have asked VEX motorsports for PBM stuff and PBM does not let anyone make account or sell to shops. So who cares if now they have competition with one place. Maybe they will lower there price a bit also.

[JeremyR]

It's not about the name, it's about the company behind the name.

When you spend more on the PSM risers, you're supporting a company that you know is going to go out and invest that money in developing new, innovative, awesome parts for the S-chassis.

The ebay brand just buys a pair of PSM risers, takes them to a CNC operator, makes a bunch of them, and then sells them for cheaper because they have less invested. Then when another new cool part comes out, they do the same thing. It's not just copying a product, it's stealing an idea.


THIS

PSM has done so much for the s chassis community. And even STILL continue to develop new and innovative products for our 20+ year old shit buckets, full well knowing 90% of the people in this community are cheap ass pieces of shit who would rather buy a fake or a copy than the original.


PSM sells direct to keep costs down. It's not an uncommon thing.

[ayuaddict]

These are just machined pieces of aluminum.

Many companies offer them.

Is one the original and the others knockoffs?

If so, the PBM pieces would be considered a knockoff as well.

When this company starts making suspension links that are the exact same material and design as PBM's then it would be fair to consider this an issue, until then, I think there is no moral problem here, and i think the OP presented valid information.

[Corbic]

Way to buy another Ebay knockoff and screw over PSM who did all the research and development.

This is what I call the "Wal-Mart mentality".

This. Fuck Walmart. Fuck 12 year old chinese slave labor.

[nathanong87]

Way to buy another Ebay knockoff and screw over PSM who did all the research and development.

This is what I call the "Wal-Mart mentality".

i think calling it walmart mentality is a bit harsh..... these are just CAD'ed pieces which probably only took some measuring to see what would actually work. then once the CAD was complete, these can be milled or CNC'd or whatever. OR who knows...they could possibly be re-annodized pieces from the same place ebay got them from? (speculation).... i can probably cad up some risers in pro engineer right now honestly :P

i do not think PBM was the first to make subframe risers nor will they be the last. and when it comes to subframe risers or collars, i doubt any will be "better" than others.

i do agree with supporting a local shop if u can though. ebay cut and modded knuckles probably aren't the same as PBM... lol.

[ManoNegra]

lol... these are such ubiquitous parts that the original company
that R&D them is probably forgotten by now.

[codyace]

lol... these are such ubiquitous parts that the original company
that R&D them is probably forgotten by now.

I was just gonna say the same thing. While I can understand the anti ebay mantra by many, we can almost all agree that these risers were out much before PSM even existed.

[PoorMans180SX]

I was just gonna say the same thing. While I can understand the anti ebay mantra by many, we can almost all agree that these risers were out much before PSM even existed.

Errr wrong. SPL designed the original solid subframe bushing in the US market and PSM designed the slip fit riser before anyone else. Maybe other people were doing custom subframe jobs before them but no one made a subframe-raising bushing before PSM.

[PoorMans180SX]

i think calling it walmart mentality is a bit harsh..... these are just CAD'ed pieces which probably only took some measuring to see what would actually work. then once the CAD was complete, these can be milled or CNC'd or whatever. OR who knows...they could possibly be re-annodized pieces from the same place ebay got them from? (speculation).... i can probably cad up some risers in pro engineer right now honestly :P

i do not think PBM was the first to make subframe risers nor will they be the last. and when it comes to subframe risers or collars, i doubt any will be "better" than others.

i do agree with supporting a local shop if u can though. ebay cut and modded knuckles probably aren't the same as PBM... lol.

Well if they are so easy to make, why didn't you think of it/make them? I'm tired of all these excuses for supporting knock-offs.

[nathanong87]

Well if they are so easy to make, why didn't you think of it/make them? I'm tired of all these excuses for supporting knock-offs.

when an ebay company is offering them 50$ cheaper than psm. i doubt www.nathanongsubframeriser.com can undercut the competition....

supply and demand....

food for thought. 326power has nearly the exact same spacer setup 15+3+5+7mm thing as PBM, but it's green. this is again just speculation, but id like to bet that those spacers are coming from the same factory and are just anodized differently.

these riser / collars / spacers ≠ wheels /seats/ body kits.

[Corbic]

lol... these are such ubiquitous parts that the original company
that R&D them is probably forgotten by now.

I'm sure they care a lot about the lost sales.

[codyace]

Errr wrong. SPL designed the original solid subframe bushing in the US market and PSM designed the slip fit riser before anyone else. Maybe other people were doing custom subframe jobs before them but no one made a subframe-raising bushing before PSM.

I don't recall the brand, but we pressed in a set of them from some no name company in a car a long time ago that we found on ebay.

[Jason913]

Wow, some of you guys are ridiculous. Who the fuck cares if he got them on ebay or from psm? The ones he got look quality, and he had them checked by a shop. They're going to work exactly the same. If it was something that effected his safety... that'd be a different story.

People can buy whatever they want. If psm has as large of a following as this thread indicates... one person roaming on ebay to find virtually the same part isn't going to force them to shut down.

[STEEZxIT]

Did you know when it comes to medicine or cereal, the store brand/off brand, are the same shit as the real ones.

[MattRose]

Come on guys, you all need to stop with the who made this who made that crap. I love PSM and have a bunch of their parts and will continue to buy their parts, but for something as simple as that, fuck it. Take this for example:

It looks like a company called driftwarehouse is doing the same thing but with the parts being called D.W.P, I'm assuming standing for drift warehouse products or something along those lines. Anyways heres the two pictures for you to see in comparison. These were found on their cardomain page, but compare the photos in this link to the PBM stuff below:

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2947489
http://memimage.cardomain.com/ride_images/3/1790/4781/29474890021_large.jpg
http://www.gtfactory.jp/cms/e107_files/public/1257372515_2_FT0_p1050658.jpg
http://memimage.cardomain.com/ride_images/3/1790/4781/29474890023_large.jpg
http://www.gtfactory.jp/cms/e107_files/public/1251597031_2_FT4523_p1050269.jpg
http://memimage.cardomain.com/ride_images/3/1790/4781/29474890022_large.jpg
http://www.gtfactory.jp/cms/e107_files/public/1246577294_2_FT0_p1040854.jpg
Even the coilovers are damn near identical! The only thing different is the rear top plates...Theres a reason PSM changed them though, they improved on the design, which makes them innovators who went through plenty of R&D to bring us the best product possible. I don't want anyone here to think I'm bashing them, you just need to get out of the mentality that "Once upon a time there was this ONE great company the revealed to us the most epic parts of all time that in now way were created by anyone else". Grow up guys..

Again, probably my $0.03 or so haha,

Cheers

[victorw210]

honestly how do you know they didnt design them themselves? like how much work would need to be put into the design like measure o.d. and i.d of original bushing ,measure height on each side subtract 1/2" on top and add 1/2" on bottom. It is a simple design rom the looks of it and its just machined aluminum unless they are using some super low grade aluminum i dont see what could go wrong.

[PoorMans180SX]

Please try to find these:

http://www.gtfactory.jp/cms/e107_files/public/1282339894_2_FT4142_p1070289.jpg

Or these:

http://www.gtfactory.jp/cms/e107_files/public/1282691658_2_FT4142_p1070329.jpg

Anywhere else.

Oh wait, you can't, because PSM designed and fabricated those in-house (and they'll be hitting the market soon).

I've made my points. I'm sorry you all think too short-term and are just looking to save a quick buck. Do as you wish.

[[email protected]]

Please try to find these:

http://www.gtfactory.jp/cms/e107_files/public/1282339894_2_FT4142_p1070289.jpg

Or these:

http://www.gtfactory.jp/cms/e107_files/public/1282691658_2_FT4142_p1070329.jpg

Anywhere else.

Oh wait, you can't, because PSM designed and fabricated those in-house (and they'll be hitting the market soon).

I've made my points. I'm sorry you all think too short-term and are just looking to save a quick buck. Do as you wish.

OK sweet. But lets see what this other company has to offer also. Apparently they are running Gymkhana grid in LA Dec 3rd-4th. So my money did not go over seas.

[ILoveMyRHS13]

Come on guys, you all need to stop with the who made this who made that crap. I love PSM and have a bunch of their parts and will continue to buy their parts, but for something as simple as that, fuck it. Take this for example:

It looks like a company called driftwarehouse is doing the same thing but with the parts being called D.W.P, I'm assuming standing for drift warehouse products or something along those lines. Anyways heres the two pictures for you to see in comparison. These were found on their cardomain page, but compare the photos in this link to the PBM stuff below:

Even the coilovers are damn near identical! The only thing different is the rear top plates...Theres a reason PSM changed them though, they improved on the design, which makes them innovators who went through plenty of R&D to bring us the best product possible. I don't want anyone here to think I'm bashing them, you just need to get out of the mentality that "Once upon a time there was this ONE great company the revealed to us the most epic parts of all time that in now way were created by anyone else". Grow up guys..

Again, probably my $0.03 or so haha,

Cheers
Of course they're going to outsource for mass produced parts. Oh, and those are made by a company called "Windflower."

However, PBM does R&D all of their other products, such as knuckles, LCAs, etc. I know I'll be purchasing PBM subframe risers shortly.

[mrflip69]

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f399/brainfood1182/Orangetree%20FLCA/IMG_1040.jpg

Orangetree..

Found here: GB: Orangetree Front Lower Control Arms s13/s14 - $425 (http://www.drifting.com/forums/buy-and-sell-area/22358-gb-orangetree-front-lower-control-arms-s13-s14-425-a.html)

That's from 07, so I'm not sure how long PSM's parts have been out. I think Ikea Formula was the first to make the front and rear control arms like that?

SPL used to sell rear control arms, not sure if they ever did fronts. Maybe they still do, but the rears were something like $800 so you know that didn't sell too well LOL..

Though I don't condone the knockoff companies, some competition is good. It forces innovation and lowers prices.

[ILoveMyRHS13]

Orangetree..

Found here: GB: Orangetree Front Lower Control Arms s13/s14 - $425 (http://www.drifting.com/forums/buy-and-sell-area/22358-gb-orangetree-front-lower-control-arms-s13-s14-425-a.html)

That's from 07, so I'm not sure how long PSM's parts have been out. I think Ikea Formula was the first to make the front and rear control arms like that?

SPL used to sell rear control arms, not sure if they ever did fronts. Maybe they still do, but the rears were something like $800 so you know that didn't sell too well LOL..

Though I don't condone the knockoff companies, some competition is good. It forces innovation and lowers prices.
PBM's design is still different. You can follow the thread here:
POWERED BY MAX: Forums (http://www.gtfactory.jp/cms/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?4142)

[MattRose]

Oh I don't get me wrong man I wasn't here to bash PBM. I just wanted to point out in some respects that when people say they're exactly the same, in areas where PBM could make improvements, they did, and thats wicked. I'll be buying as much PBM stuff as I can, well, what I can for my R33 that is. As far as I know most of the s14 multi link will work:D

I've called the shop many times to place my orders and work with them directly. Great lads and I'll keep my business with them for sure. I just wanted some narrow minded people to open their eyes you know? Everyone needs an equal opportunity to purchase what they want, and see what truely is available on the market.

It's upto you to decide who you'd rather support in the end. Every idea originated somewhere, and others have copied it many times over. Personally, I'll be buying the PBM knuckles and RUCA right away, because they're made in house, and I trust their craftsmanship over any other company on zilvia.

[MattRose]

^^^^And those orangetree ones don't look nearly as tough as the PBM stuff. You can see where the PBM ones were boxed in, making them stronger, which in the end is what you want if you're drifting the piss out of your silvia.

[MattRose]

Of course they're going to outsource for mass produced parts. Oh, and those are made by a company called "Windflower."

However, PBM does R&D all of their other products, such as knuckles, LCAs, etc. I know I'll be purchasing PBM subframe risers shortly.

Thanks man! I spent like a week trying to find out who made them haha:D

[illvialuver]

Yeah I think psm has fair prices, for great products, and yeah they are local so cal guys.

But I also do see the reasoning that its a damn sub frame riser, not some super complex part that has moving parts, its not like he is buy a knock off turbo, or ecu, or something with joints, its a chunck of aluminum. If he wants to save money and buy these parts then let him, he was just trying to share some information with other frugal members.

[godrifttoday]

SO, WHAT! ITS A LOWER COST FOR SOMETHING THAT DOES NOT MOVE! SO HE SAVED CASH FOR THE SAME THING, AND ABOUT SUPPORTING COMPANIES! NO SUCH THING! THEIR IS BRAND LOYALTY, WHICH PEOPLE ONLY BUY THAT CERTAIN COMPAN. Social darwinism is a philosophy used in evolution to explain dynamics of human social and instituitonal “ survivor of the fitest” so if a business is not being inovative all the time then this is what happens, other companies copy the design called reverse engineering. so by business constantly being inovative then the people stealing the design will never be able to gain market share because their is something better... thats my point of view, i dont think i have ever heard anyone say " let me buy something from xxx business because they might go bankrupt" it just does not happen... only when they are bankrupt and are selling things for dirt cheap... by the way i recently purchased spl solid bushings, i did so beacuse of the reputaion of the business, even though i know their is others, similar, for a lower price, to some that matter to others it simply does not...

[Black240Ct]

buying cheap knockoff parts kills the industry as well.

more people bought ebay'd greddy knock off parts, and greddy closed their Jersey warehouse.

just sayin, maybe a solid piece of aluminum is less likely to break then a knock off blow off valve.. but geez, where are your morals

[holemilk00]

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f399/brainfood1182/Orangetree%20FLCA/IMG_1040.jpg

Orangetree..

Found here: GB: Orangetree Front Lower Control Arms s13/s14 - $425 (http://www.drifting.com/forums/buy-and-sell-area/22358-gb-orangetree-front-lower-control-arms-s13-s14-425-a.html)

That's from 07, so I'm not sure how long PSM's parts have been out. I think Ikea Formula was the first to make the front and rear control arms like that?

SPL used to sell rear control arms, not sure if they ever did fronts. Maybe they still do, but the rears were something like $800 so you know that didn't sell too well LOL..

Though I don't condone the knockoff companies, some competition is good. It forces innovation and lowers prices.


Here are the SPL FLCA
http://i1.frsimg.com/images/detailed_images/SPLFrontLowerArm.jpg

And here are the RLCA
http://i1.frsimg.com/images/detailed_images/SPLRearLowerArm.jpg

If I'm not mistaken, they have been around for 3-4 years, and just recently were taken down from their site. I hope its because V.2's are coming out.


SO, WHAT! ITS A LOWER COST FOR SOMETHING THAT DOES NOT MOVE! SO HE SAVED CASH FOR THE SAME THING, AND ABOUT SUPPORTING COMPANIES! NO SUCH THING! THEIR IS BRAND LOYALTY, WHICH PEOPLE ONLY BUY THAT CERTAIN COMPAN. Social darwinism is a philosophy used in evolution to explain dynamics of human social and instituitonal “ survivor of the fitest” so if a business is not being inovative all the time then this is what happens, other companies copy the design called reverse engineering. so by business constantly being inovative then the people stealing the design will never be able to gain market share because their is something better... thats my point of view, i dont think i have ever heard anyone say " let me buy something from xxx business because they might go bankrupt" it just does not happen... only when they are bankrupt and are selling things for dirt cheap... by the way i recently purchased spl solid bushings, i did so beacuse of the reputaion of the business, even though i know their is others, similar, for a lower price, to some that matter to others it simply does not...


If any of these businesses were first at it here in the states, they could easily gotten a patent on it. That's called smart business.


There is this thing called the product business cycle and it goes as follows:

Innovators------>Early Adopters------->Early Majority------>Late Majority------>Laggards

Now along every step of that process companies that copy the products of the innovators can make small changes to the product, but they are still imitating the original innovator.

[godrifttoday]

If any of these businesses were first at it here in the states, they could easily gotten a patent on it. That's called smart business.

patent cost money thats y in some industries just dont use them



Now along every step of that process companies that copy the products of the innovators can make small changes to the product, but they are still imitating the original innovator.

imitating yes, i agree. but not the same, well in legal terms.. so its fine

[holemilk00]

What do you mean not in legal terms? If you make a wooden #2 pencil and I make a wooden #2 pencil, how much difference do you think there are between our two products? And in this case how much difference can there be in subframe risers? As for the patent thing, there are only two ways of product innovation that will keep you from going bankrupt. 1. Produce products and get some sort of protection from competition, ie patent, copyrights and so on. 2. Have your business designed to be so far ahead of the market that you are always the innovator and your competition is trying to catch up. Apple managed this for about 3 years with the iPhone. Out side of these two ways of being product innovators your business is an early adapter through laggard, which will mean you are copying someone that is in the other category.

[GabeS14]

Way to buy another Ebay knockoff and screw over PSM who did all the research and development.

This is what I call the "Wal-Mart mentality".lol at that. It's better to say. Way for the shop to fuck us over by charging $127 when're same product could have easily been sold for $85 or less.
It's not fucking rocket science!




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Corbic]

Sorry dude, but dealing with China, commercially, they are know to cheap out on metals. Prone to fatigue, crack . FYI never use Chinese supplied Fasteners.

[Marcus]

I think the thing that really pisses me off is that you settled for the ebay brand not knowing the quality of the material. (over 40bucks at that)

what if the quality had been shit? you spent 80bones for 6061 Dogshit.

then you wouldve had to spend another 120 for legit parts.


just something to think about when considering ebay parts.

[holemilk00]

Can someone verify where PSM stuff is actually produced please? I know they develop it in house but I'm talking about where are the prototypes sent off to for production. I'm just curious, I love their stuff I just want to know for personal curiosity.

[nathanong87]

Can someone verify where PSM stuff is actually produced please? I know they develop it in house but I'm talking about where are the prototypes sent off to for production. I'm just curious, I love their stuff I just want to know for personal curiosity.

if the prototype is made IN HOUSE then i'd assume they are made IN HOUSE. you make a jig for part, then u weld accordingly.

they have RUCA videos on youtube

if they are rebranded, they could be anodized in house.

[upsdude]

you guys complain about knockoff companies then turn around and try to lowball a seller for his parts-hypocrites.

[thefro526]

Those eBay subframe risers are cool, I'm sure they're 100% Functionally identical to the Powered By Max units.

I have the Powered By Max Risers, and I would buy them again over the eBay risers just because I'd be supporting a company that places a large emphasis on listening to the needs of their end user and revising their products accordingly, which is becoming more and more uncommon in this industry it seems.

But realistically, if you're worried about pinching pennies and such you probably shouldn't be building/modifying/racing/drifting cars.

[upsdude]

they're chunks of aluminum...seriously you guys go overboard with this shit sometimes

[PoorMans180SX]

Those eBay subframe risers are cool, I'm sure they're 100% Functionally identical to the Powered By Max units.

I have the Powered By Max Risers, and I would buy them again over the eBay risers just because I'd be supporting a company that places a large emphasis on listening to the needs of their end user and revising their products accordingly, which is becoming more and more uncommon in this industry it seems.

But realistically, if you're worried about pinching pennies and such you probably shouldn't be building/modifying/racing/drifting cars.

Truth.

That is all.

[ManoNegra]

Errr wrong. SPL designed the original solid subframe bushing in the US market and PSM designed the slip fit riser before anyone else. Maybe other people were doing custom subframe jobs before them but no one made a subframe-raising bushing before PSM.

You positive about that? Not trying to argue or anything
maybe you know something I don't
my guess would be Nams or Naguisa designed the originals
I will agree that SPL was probably the first US based company to offer them

I'm sure they care a lot about the lost sales.

hmmm... maybe, maybe not
have you ever designed and developed a product?
I have and would be pissed if someone went and copied it

Here are the SPL FLCA
http://i1.frsimg.com/images/detailed_images/SPLFrontLowerArm.jpg

And here are the RLCA
http://i1.frsimg.com/images/detailed_images/SPLRearLowerArm.jpg

If I'm not mistaken, they have been around for 3-4 years, and just recently were taken down from their site. I hope its because V.2's are coming out.

Those are Nagisa arms sold and warrantied in the US by SPL
I've noticed SPL actively R&Ding the stuff they sell in the last few years
maybe they're coming out with their own set of control arms now?

[GabeS14]

they're chunks of aluminum...seriously you guys go overboard with this shit sometimesexactly!!!lol





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[MADE]

These are just machined pieces of aluminum.

Many companies offer them.

Is one the original and the others knockoffs?

If so, the PBM pieces would be considered a knockoff as well.

When this company starts making suspension links that are the exact same material and design as PBM's then it would be fair to consider this an issue, until then, I think there is no moral problem here, and i think the OP presented valid information.
:werd:

People seem to not realize E-bay doesn't equal junk all of the time. Alot of legit shops sell stuff on E-bay as well. Can you really knock off this product or catch can or similar item. And if you can whats the point in buying a Brand name one over a functional one that works? Now I'm sure out of the number of people who complained 25% will go out and buy the item to save a dollar.

[Slikk Logic]

those ebay parts look good enough to hold up..its not a complicated part to even make.block of aluminum and cut it out. they can't really fuck that up too much lol

[Max_PSi]

those ebay parts look good enough to hold up..its not a complicated part to even make.block of aluminum and cut it out. they can't really fuck that up too much lol

I love this argument. Fine, when you fuck up your front end doing the "dorifto", don't bother with OEM hardened steel nuts and bolts. Just go to Home Depot and throw some stainless steel nuts and bolts in as a replacement. See how long it lasts.

Granted, a shop apparently "verified" the metal as the OP said. But still, arguing a parts simplicity to justify saving $40 seems pretty stupid.

Oh yea, fuck Walmart.

[[email protected]]

So I found out all the parts are made in Norcal. I asked the guys on ebay and the parts are made at Quality Metal Spinning in PaloAlto CA.

So they are 100% 6061 aluminum and are made in norcal.

So they are 100% good and no china shit

[soreballz]

... And they're 100% COPIED from another companies design. Functional or not, it's just not honest.
Somebody bought a set of PBM subframe risers, took them to a machine shop, had the copy them and produce several sets, and decided to resell them. If you're cool with that, then you suck.

[mrflip69]

^^ Milk, thanks for the SPL links. Yup, noticed they took them down with the new layout... could've sworn I saw front LCAs, and voila, there they are!

Rebranded Nagisa huh? Hope they've improved the design. Didn't seem like there was a huge market out there that could take advantage of that stuff, and figured they discontinued them.

[GnarKiller]

so your saying if i were to scetch up some risers just as an idea im sure they would look pretty simalar, yes? would i still be taking their design? would you rather they be square?? or what i i bought some alumiun took it to a buddy at a shop and said here make this fit this and it look like that, its not thier brand or ebay that shit is my brand any differences? i think not on the smaller stuff as this but others yes for the most part youd be able to tell. im sure there very few manufacturers of coilovers but yet sooo many brands, how so? is each one one off, made by hand i think not. to each his own people its not your car, nor is it mine. what if he got these so he could afford motons??? you dont know...

[slideways2004]

i only use PSM risers in my subframe...but really local shops that put in the effort.
http://www.axiomotion.com/files/26/subframe%20shananigins%202.jpg

YaY for PBM and subframe parties!!

BUY PBM! All the cool kids are doing it

[JeremyR]

But realistically, if you're worried about pinching pennies and such you probably shouldn't be building/modifying/racing/drifting cars.



quoted for truth.

[Corbic]

So I found out all the parts are made in Norcal. I asked the guys on ebay and the parts are made at Quality Metal Spinning in PaloAlto CA.

So they are 100% 6061 aluminum and are made in norcal.

So they are 100% good and no china shit

Are you the one selling these?

[smelly240]

So maybe I'm the only one that thinks this... but,

This started out sounding like a for sale thread. Like Hey - everyone look - I bought ebay risers that "somebody" in cali where I live makes and they're really good and even though i havent installed them yet theyre EXACTLY the same as PSM ones theyre super awesome! You should buy them too because its still local but its cheaper and I need monies to buy pizzas and cheeseburgers.

Those Nagisa arms are nothing like PSM btw. Because its made out of tubing doesnt mean its the same.

[Corbic]

So maybe I'm the only one that thinks this... but,

This started out sounding like a for sale thread. Like Hey - everyone look - I bought ebay risers that "somebody" in cali where I live makes and they're really good and even though i havent installed them yet theyre EXACTLY the same as PSM ones theyre super awesome! You should buy them too because its still local but its cheaper and I need monies to buy pizzas and cheeseburgers.

Those Nagisa arms are nothing like PSM btw. Because its made out of tubing doesnt mean its the same.

Look above, I'm in with you on that.

[slideways2004]

the orangetree control arms are no where near the quality and strength of the spl arms.

Also, the pbm control arms are better because they move the tension rod mounting point. When you have knuckles, the front wheels dig into the tension rod because of the crazy angle. You can notch your frame, but you can't really notch your tension. *You could however use a s14 ruca as a tension rod for clearance*

If all the people arguing FOR knock parts actually drove their car on the track, they would know why they should buy quality parts.

[[email protected]]

Are you the one selling these?

I sent them a message on ebay since there is so much drama about them and wanted to see whats going on and where they are made. The point of getting them was to see the quality. So im finding out since there is so much drama.

[[email protected]]

So maybe I'm the only one that thinks this... but,

This started out sounding like a for sale thread. Like Hey - everyone look - I bought ebay risers that "somebody" in cali where I live makes and they're really good and even though i havent installed them yet theyre EXACTLY the same as PSM ones theyre super awesome! You should buy them too because its still local but its cheaper and I need monies to buy pizzas and cheeseburgers.

Those Nagisa arms are nothing like PSM btw. Because its made out of tubing doesnt mean its the same.

dude. zilvia is so much drama. People are asking questions and i wanted to know also. So a message to them on ebay and the address they came from kinda sorted some stuff out. As you can see i have not had time to even try them out and put them in yet. When i do i will let you know the outcome. Ill take some pictures.

[Corbic]

I sent them a message on ebay since there is so much drama about them and wanted to see whats going on and where they are made. The point of getting them was to see the quality. So im finding out since there is so much drama.

Drama fanned by you. If we are happy buying from PSM, a strong member and friend of our community, why should we give a damn about "not you" vender and "not your" cheaper bushings.

What do you honestly care if we "waste" $40? Is that some how "money out of your pocket"?

[[email protected]]

the orangetree control arms are no where near the quality and strength of the spl arms.

If all the people arguing FOR knock parts actually drove their car on the track, they would know why they should buy quality parts.

So this piece of aluminum will explode?????? NO
I did not cheap out and buy D2 coilovers.... I have Tein Flex's with custom spring rates and valving
I did not cheap out and buy a replica seat and rails ...... i have a Cobra with Bride rails
I did not cheap out on a rollcage and got certified Autopower one
I did not cheap out on RUCA's ........ NOPE I got PBM ones
I did not cheap out on a engine for my s14 and got a s14SR
I did not cheap out and got blox lugnuts and I got Rays
I did not cheap out and got Autozone brake pads...... I got Endless

Stuff that can break and kill me is all legit and i did not cheap out on. Who cares if i got subframe bushings somewhere else. They cant break and kill me. I can build my car however i want. All I did was let people know i tried something new and it ended up being good. Thats it!
God forbid I buy rotas and not real volks...... the Zilvia nazi police will get me. Really???

Does PBM sponsor me..... NO. So why do i have to buy everything PBM.

[[email protected]]

Drama fanned by you. If we are happy buying from PSM, a strong member and friend of our community, why should we give a damn about "not you" vender and "not your" cheaper bushings.

What do you honestly care if we "waste" $40? Is that some how "money out of your pocket"?

Are you crazy?????

I was just saying i tried something new. WTF? Why do you take it so personal.

[STEEZxIT]

Drama fanned by you. If we are happy buying from PSM, a strong member and friend of our community, why should we give a damn about "not you" vender and "not your" cheaper bushings.

What do you honestly care if we "waste" $40? Is that some how "money out of your pocket"?

So why is everyone making a big deal and jumping on the OP's back about buying cheap aluminum risers if you yourself talking about its not cmin out of anyone else's pocket but the buyer himself. Im sure if YOU front the OP $40 to get PBM's he'd be happy to get em, but you didnt. hypocrite.

[Corbic]

So why is everyone making a big deal and jumping on the OP's back about buying cheap aluminum risers if you yourself talking about its not cmin out of anyone else's pocket but the buyer himself. Im sure if YOU front the OP $40 to get PBM's he'd be happy to get em, but you didnt. hypocrite.

That makes no sense. I paid the $40 to a solid company making respectable products. I (and others) realize in the long run (both hobby and professionally) it pays to go with a higher quality, backed product instead of a fly by night out of moms basement deal.

That is why this eBay guy is cheaper. No overhead, no warehouse, no tooling, no shop, no staff, no warrant/insurance costs, no marketing, no sponser ships or shop cars.

[blueshark123]

This thread just made me hate zilvia a little more deep inside..... This is the most retarded think to argue about let the op buy whatever he wants, he is not making u buy them. I honestly think you can cheap out on this part its really not something u will see ever break. So all u fanboys shut the fuck up already and get the sand out your vag, Open your eyes and realize your driving a old pos car, not a ferrari.

I'm gonna be super zilviaman and buy 24k gold sub frame risers so i can go sideways super fast now

[holemilk00]

... And they're 100% COPIED from another companies design. Functional or not, it's just not honest.
Somebody bought a set of PBM subframe risers, took them to a machine shop, had the copy them and produce several sets, and decided to resell them. If you're cool with that, then you suck.

I agree with what your saying down to the part where you assume they copied PSM subframe risers. We don't really know which legit company got copied on this deal.

[STEEZxIT]

That makes no sense. I paid the $40 to a solid company making respectable products. I (and others) realize in the long run (both hobby and professionally) it pays to go with a higher quality, backed product instead of a fly by night out of moms basement deal.

That is why this eBay guy is cheaper. No overhead, no warehouse, no tooling, no shop, no staff, no warrant/insurance costs, no marketing, no sponser ships or shop cars.


true. but were talking about "money" here. The OP let everyone else buy their PBM stuff. I dont see why everyone gets on his back about buying these. Its nothing major. If the OE rubber bushing still holds up the rear end for more than 20+ yrs, what makes you think these aluminum will fail almost instantly. But i get what all you guys are saying "support local shops for growth and development for future products". And im all for that. Sometimes you jst have to cut corners on some things, like stated above OP has TEIN FLEX and other reputable brand parts installed in his vehicle.

[Corbic]

This thread just made me hate zilvia a little more deep inside..... This is the most retarded think to argue about let the op buy whatever he wants, he is not making u buy them. I honestly think you can cheap out on this part its really not something u will see ever break. So all u fanboys shut the fuck up already and get the sand out your vag, Open your eyes and realize your driving a old pos car, not a ferrari.

I'm gonna be super zilviaman and buy 24k gold sub frame risers so i can go sideways super fast now

And you just made me hate the human race a little more deep down inside.

We are pissed because, A. There is a suspicion that he is in fact the vender for said eBay parts, B. If not, he is trying to force feed us his Chinnese slave labor garbage (as you/he argues were trying to feed him namebrand/company backed more expensive products) and finally C. If you an the OP are unable to understand how as a community it is in our best interest to work with venders that support and our enthusiasm the feel free to leave Zilvia and buy all the eBay garbage you want.

eBay does not support our site or community, they don't pay vender dues, they don't sponsor cars or build crazy, inventive products. It's just another distributor of substandard products for the "more is better" Walmart crowd.

[STEEZxIT]

^^^^ AHHH now i see where you're cmin from.

You think these "local" zilvians are putting up EBAY products AS GOOD products/reviews so other enthusiast can go the other way and join the EBAY built CARS. or something along those lines.


Thats not cool.

[slideways2004]

That is why this eBay guy is cheaper. No overhead, no warehouse, no tooling, no shop, no staff, no warrant/insurance costs, no marketing, no sponser ships or shop cars.

This was my next exact argument. So many people cry about not getting sponsored. If you look at the big picture, this is also how you build an economy. The guy you got these risers from pocketed everything. If you support the real innovators, they support you back by giving people jobs, sponsoring drivers and teams, and the list just goes on.

Shop/warehouse space- supporting the landlord of a commercial park
Tools- supporting your local tool supplier, craigslist, etc.
Staff= JOBS
Insurance costs- Insurance company
Marketing- supporting website developers and sponsoring drivers
R&D- You pay this company and they will develop new and innovative parts. You pay joe blow who copies everything, he can't develop anything new and you are stuck with the same products and the quality gets even worse because he found someone who can make it cheaper.

[godrifttoday]

This was my next exact argument. So many people cry about not getting sponsored. If you look at the big picture, this is also how you build an economy. The guy you got these risers from pocketed everything. If you support the real innovators, they support you back by giving people jobs, sponsoring drivers and teams, and the list just goes on.

Shop/warehouse space- supporting the landlord of a commercial park
Tools- supporting your local tool supplier, craigslist, etc.
Staff= JOBS
Insurance costs- Insurance company
Marketing- supporting website developers and sponsoring drivers
R&D- You pay this company and they will develop new and innovative parts. You pay joe blow who copies everything, he can't develop anything new and you are stuck with the same products and the quality gets even worse because he found someone who can make it cheaper.


Very true, although to some it does not matter About supporting companies, it's easy to imply morals and ethics to us but to some it just does not matter. Companies don't go out giving race products to all of us in support, a few selected individuals who are knowledgeable get free stuff, but that's just another form of sponsoring to get more cash, this is why most business sponsor someone and not just anyone. They don't sponsor a regular Joe unless they got talent. Some people buy "eBay" stuff and have great success , and it's very apparent that alot do without success... Each to it's own, some purchase based on price, others on value, others by reputation, some on quality etc.

[blueshark123]

And you just made me hate the human race a little more deep down inside.

We are pissed because, A. There is a suspicion that he is in fact the vender for said eBay parts, B. If not, he is trying to force feed us his Chinnese slave labor garbage (as you/he argues were trying to feed him namebrand/company backed more expensive products) and finally C. If you an the OP are unable to understand how as a community it is in our best interest to work with venders that support and our enthusiasm the feel free to leave Zilvia and buy all the eBay garbage you want.

eBay does not support our site or community, they don't pay vender dues, they don't sponsor cars or build crazy, inventive products. It's just another distributor of substandard products for the "more is better" Walmart crowd.


I do not have one knockoff item on my car. How about u post a pic of ur Ferrari then so we can see your omg car with all jdm tight shit. Im sure i got you beat. IM not recommending anyone to buy garbage knockoff parts but this guy posted up a item he bought and just gave a simple review on it. This item seems up to par and not half assed at all. I f you wanna buy a authentic item go ahead no one will stop you.

[Corbic]

I do not have one knockoff item on my car. How about u post a pic of ur Ferrari then so we can see your omg car with all jdm tight shit. Im sure i got you beat. IM not recommending anyone to buy garbage knockoff parts but this guy posted up a item he bought and just gave a simple review on it. This item seems up to par and not half assed at all. I f you wanna buy a authentic item go ahead no one will stop you.

Reread my post joker.

[illvialuver]

Ahhh you guys crack me up. I think people arguing with other people about what to buy is futile.

I know why we want original parts and not knock offs. I understand the relationships between buyers and sellers, but you need to understand that some people will always try to save a buck, and try to help others save a buck.

Look at it like this.
If you bought Nikes and only Nikes, and someone came up to you saying go to payless they have almost the same shoes for cheaper, would you? Hell no. But there are people who only buy their shoes from payless. For whatever reason. You can't expect everyone to have the same standards as you.

From what I see the cliff notes and main point of this for every person that buys knock of parts, that is less money for inovaters, and that equals less inovation and further down the line less quality products on the market.
For people on here like corbic, brian, and others buying knock offs is as offensive as raping their girlfriends. Because in the end, your fucking the shit up.

[godrifttoday]

Maybe they only buy nikes because of the " cool" factor socially acceptable and well payless to most is just hot " cool" or. Hip enough haha... This could also relate to the auto industry...

[Propaganda]

Nikes are made in Vietnam... so.. it's not China, so it's fine?

if they work... don't listen to these guys.

[STEEZxIT]

Im sure if half of you PBM consumers have the tool and skill to fabricate what they do, you'd fab up your own to save a few.

[[email protected]]

And you just made me hate the human race a little more deep down inside.

We are pissed because, A. There is a suspicion that he is in fact the vender for said eBay parts, B. If not, he is trying to force feed us his Chinnese slave labor garbage (as you/he argues were trying to feed him namebrand/company backed more expensive products) and finally C. If you an the OP are unable to understand how as a community it is in our best interest to work with venders that support and our enthusiasm the feel free to leave Zilvia and buy all the eBay garbage you want.

eBay does not support our site or community, they don't pay vender dues, they don't sponsor cars or build crazy, inventive products. It's just another distributor of substandard products for the "more is better" Walmart crowd.

Where do you come up with this shit?????????
1. Im not the damn vendor. Look on the ebay history. I got this shit
2. I never told you to go buy it....... I just said... Hey check out what i got
3. We found out it was not slave labor
4. PBM does not offer sponsorships, group buys, zilvia discounts..... I paid my dues to them and got RUCA. It does not mean i have to buy everything from PBM.. they dont sponsor me

[Perfect Balance]

All you people act like there was actually some R&D involved in making these things. Wheels, aero kits, brakes, coilovers, exhaust, engine parts, seats, suspension arms, stuff like that yes, they take research and development to be a good product and work safely.

These things took some guy 5 minutes to punch some numbers into a computer, and out popped a subframe riser. That's it. They aren't going to break unless the metal has the same consistency as cheese. Which is doesn't.

[Corbic]

All you people act like there was actually some R&D involved in making these things. Wheels, aero kits, brakes, coilovers, exhaust, engine parts, seats, suspension arms, stuff like that yes, they take research and development to be a good product and work safely.

These things took some guy 5 minutes to punch some numbers into a computer, and out popped a subframe riser. That's it. They aren't going to break unless the metal has the same consistency as cheese. Which is doesn't.

Why didn't we have them 10 years ago?

[STEEZxIT]

Same reason why keichi started drifting with cut springs. No one thought of it.

[satek]

Get these things installed and prove the haters wrong....quit bitching at each other like a bunch of little girls.

[GabeS14]

Funny thing about this thread is that probably 80% Of the guys bitching about these parts On this thread would probably actually end up buying these cheaper ones if they were going to buy any at all. Fuckig hypocrites...
Just like
Megan coils and susp arms and mishimoto radiators.
and ebay turbos.
Sportmax etc.
Lol i go to Drift events and 240meets and most Of the parts are "knock
offs"

If your car looks like shit and you have no money to buy expensive name brand parts. Then you are a dumbass if you really believe In paying double just to support An Overpriced car part. When there are cheaper alternatives.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[holemilk00]

I wonder how many of the people bitching about how dangerous knock off parts are actually use a torque wrench and actual specs on their suspension parts when installing? Cause that is FAR more dangerous than the Megan RUCAs people put on their car.

[Corbic]

Funny thing about this thread is that probably 80% Of the guys bitching about these parts On this thread would probably actually end up buying these cheaper ones if they were going to buy any at all. Fuckig hypocrites...
Just like
Megan coils and susp arms and mishimoto radiators.
and ebay turbos.
Sportmax etc.
Lol i go to Drift events and 240meets and most Of the parts are "knock
offs"

If your car looks like shit and you have no money to buy expensive name brand parts. Then you are a dumbass if you really believe In paying double just to support An Overpriced car part. When there are cheaper alternatives.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Is this how you justify your purchase? Do you also say "everyone drinks and drives... only the idiots get caught or hurt someone, whats your problem man... I know you Drink and Drive so don't pull that holly roller crap on me!"

Or "hey bro, nobody uses condoms, AIDS is blown way out of proportion by the gay hating churches".


Sure, not everyone has oodles of cash dripping out their ass cause mommy is flipping the bill. But those that are serious about the car hobby realize they are going to be turning a wrench 3 months, 3 years and 3 decades from now. So why blow your wad on X-garbage part when in 3-4 months you could have had the one you really wanted but can't afford at this moment. Its not a race to get shit ready for SEMA or some BS.

As for knocking PSM. Last time I checked they are the bargain bin vender. El-Shitto Megan sells solids for like $120, so not only are PSM max ones rising your frame, at a lower cost, they have a much nicer finish as well. (having seen both in person and using PSM ones on my car). Not to mention, when is the last time Megan posted on Zilvia?

[duffman1278]

Go OP, imo 6061 is over kill, but looking at those spacers, they're extremely easy to produce so I don't see anything wrong with using them instead of a name brand.

[Corbic]

I wonder how many of the people bitching about how dangerous knock off parts are actually use a torque wrench and actual specs on their suspension parts when installing? Cause that is FAR more dangerous than the Megan RUCAs people put on their car.


I'm so anal, I use a @#%king Craftsman Torque wrench and not some garbage Autozone one. In fact, my whole "hate walmart/Chinese substandard products" comes from 7 years ago when I was wrenching on my VW, with a Walmart bargain ratchet set (hey, only a moron buys a $500 SnapOn set, you can get one for $15 at Walmart)... my 3/8's Ratchet busted at the handle and I got stitches. Fuck that pig iron shit.


I've used plenty of eBay parts in the past and been disappointed every time. Do it right the first time and only do it once.

[CaptainVlad]

He can buy what he wants....

All this shit because he bought subframe risers that aren't PBM... When you starting giving him money, then you can be judgmental about what he buys.

[PBucch]

This thread just made me hate zilvia a little more deep inside..... This is the most retarded think to argue about let the op buy whatever he wants, he is not making u buy them. I honestly think you can cheap out on this part its really not something u will see ever break. So all u fanboys shut the fuck up already and get the sand out your vag, Open your eyes and realize your driving a old pos car, not a ferrari.

I'm gonna be super zilviaman and buy 24k gold sub frame risers so i can go sideways super fast now

Word.

get a grip you fucking nerds.

[GabeS14]

I'm so anal, I u


I've used plenty of eBay parts in the past and been disappointed every time. Do it right the first time and only do it once.no one cares how anal you are. No one cares about your gay anal aids talk.
This is a small block Of aluminum. Shut the hell up with that shit. The op found a hell Of a deal. Lets all thank him! And move On




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[MADE]

Now I'm waiting for someone to lie and say they brought this item and it failed at hwy speeds.:2c: Where is a mod when you need one.

[s14j]

wow.
all this over blocks of aluminum?
is this really needed?
man u guys take it over-bored. way to much.

[ManoNegra]

wow.
all this over blocks of aluminum?
is this really needed?
man u guys take it over-bored. way to much.

I think of it more as an allegory or metaphor that illustrates that way people
feel about legit vs reverse engineering parts/stolen ideas

someone recognized a need, saw a problem, listened to feedback... whatever
they thought about the problem
weighed the pros and cons on designing and making a part
decided to take a risk
got their hands on a few s-chassis subframes
came up with a design
tested the fit
made adjustments
installed it on cars
got feedbacks
made changes/improvements to the original design

vs

someone bought an original product
handed to people that can use calipers, micrometers or maybe have a CMM
transferred that data to an NC lathe
made a batch of a few hundred
sold them on ebay
made profit with very little risk

people fall into two camps:
those that appreciate a company that took a risk and developed a much needed product
and support them because said company will most likely re-invest their earnings into making other cool products

or those that want to spend the least amount of money to fit an image or be part of a scene

ps.
making subframe bushings press fit ala SPL requires much more manufacturing precision than making subframe risers that slip fit and need epoxy to stay put.
and anodizing is really not a bid deal. It's typically a lot charge, it usually comes down to pennies per part.
oh, and lastly, 6061 is probably the cheapest of metals to buy since it's so widely used

[godrifttoday]

Ah someone that know about reverse engineering ! I'm going to copy ur Kat oil adapter and sell it for 60 bucks!! By the way u still have them for sale?

[s14j]

i understand that.
and well put Manonegra!

its just funny that people get so crazy over this haha

i just dont see how ther so horrible,
not saying that im buy them cuz ther cheeper
shit i wouldn't buy the pbm ones to many vibrations, i rather just buy nismo ones :D

[murda-c]

people fall into two camps:
those that appreciate a company that took a risk and developed a much needed product
and support them because said company will most likely re-invest their earnings into making other cool products

or those that want to spend the least amount of money to fit an image or be part of a scene



subframe risers=fitting an image?

thats a bit of a stretch...

[Corbic]

subframe risers=fitting an image?

thats a bit of a stretch...

He is talking about knock off parts in general.

[R33E8]

I'm so anal, I use a @#%king Craftsman Torque wrench and not some garbage Autozone one. In fact, my whole "hate walmart/Chinese substandard products" comes from 7 years ago when I was wrenching on my VW, with a Walmart bargain ratchet set (hey, only a moron buys a $500 SnapOn set, you can get one for $15 at Walmart)... my 3/8's Ratchet busted at the handle and I got stitches. Fuck that pig iron shit.


I've used plenty of eBay parts in the past and been disappointed every time. Do it right the first time and only do it once.

Lol sorry for nit picking but if you were so anal you probably would have done some research about buying your craftsman torque wrench... I think it's called being smart with your money instead of being anal.. I did my research and bought a precision instruments torque wrench and get it calibrated once a year. I read reviews and make informed decisions before purchasing parts. If I find something that is equal or better in quality and does what I want for less, I'm going to buy it..

Anyways to the OP, thanks for confirming that they are identical to the PDM subframe risers.. I'm sure this info will help some budget minded builders..

[ManoNegra]

i understand that.
and well put Manonegra!

its just funny that people get so crazy over this haha

i just dont see how ther so horrible,
not saying that im buy them cuz ther cheeper
shit i wouldn't buy the pbm ones to many vibrations, i rather just buy nismo ones :D

that goddamn thing required about 5 machining operations
a couple of which involved 'creative' fixturing
not to mention the joy of making the fittings in house
I still believe we ask way too little for them

and yes, we still have a few left over

He is talking about knock off parts in general.

ditto

[holemilk00]

that goddamn thing required about 5 machining operations
a couple of which involved 'creative' fixturing
not to mention the joy of making the fittings in house
I still believe we ask way too little for them

and yes, we still have a few left over




Its a great piece man, I have two.

[Corbic]

Lol sorry for nit picking but if you were so anal you probably would have done some research about buying your craftsman torque wrench... I think it's called being smart with your money instead of being anal.. I did my research and bought a precision instruments torque wrench and get it calibrated once a year. I read reviews and make informed decisions before purchasing parts. If I find something that is equal or better in quality and does what I want for less, I'm going to buy it..

Anyways to the OP, thanks for confirming that they are identical to the PDM subframe risers.. I'm sure this info will help some budget minded builders..

Be a wise shopper then. I paid maybe $20 more for the CM over the Chinnese-Garbage. CM Member, Sears Discount, Coupon et al.

One tool set a bought two years ago on black-Friday with all my discounts came out to be $180, normally $500.

[cemtoes]

You guys nitpick so much...it's subframe risers....fucking subframe risers. The originals are godamn rubber and you're worried about aluminum ones not being strong enough and failing. Who cares if he's not "supporting" pbm, does that mean anyone who isn't buying pbm parts is a douchebag or something?

This is all coming from a guy who owns tons of pbm stuff and reps them hard because they have good quality products for decent prices but damnit, if i was tight on cash those alum ebay risers would work perfectly fine.

[Freddy]

What funny about all this is you guys act, like big companies don't copy from one another.

I had a co-op/internship at combat sports, were they make composite softball and baseball bats. I worked in R&D, let me tell you that everyone in industry reverse engineers their competitor product. I'm talking companies like Easton rebook.

If a company wants to protect their product, patent your shit. If you don't, don't come complaining went your sales are low. Cause someone reverse engineered their product.

[GabeS14]

I would compare these to solid transmition mounts. Some company's sell them for over $200 bucks. When in all truth you can have them fabbbed up for under $20. And any fab guy knows this.
My point is. Great job for PBM creating a new item that we need. But if it was possible to offer the product for much less. And we all know it was. Why put a higher price tag on it???
Maaaaayybe charging a higher price for let's say the first 100 pieces. Just to justify the expense to create and design the part. And then lower the price to a reasonable cost... Now that would make sense.

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[urmyhero4now]

If a company wants to protect their product, patent your shit. If you don't, don't come complaining went your sales are low. Cause someone reverse engineered their product.


Truth. :l101:

[ryan hagen]

Any high school student in machine shop coupld make these if i gave him about 5 measurements.............. so when something is so easy to make i cant see making such a big deal about a "rip off part" I cant even see much for R&D going into a part such as this. Spl would be considered a fancy copy then

and after Mike Pollard's PBM part failure it was enough to make me continue to make my own parts. Then i dont feel bad if anything breaks.

i notice at least in the midwest alot of the baller we buy every thing name brand cars never hit the track, they go through 3 year builds then get parted out, but i d say average here, the cars that show up to the track and run, have knock off parts, I d rather have track time and do 12 events a year, than worrie about paing 20% more on part so some company in socal that has cult following can sponsor a formula drift car. Most the arms in a s13 suspension can be easily made from a dirt track catalog. I'D take a afco/qa1 link over a china link any day. I make $11.50 a hour SO $40 with taxes involved is like 6 hours of work, or 40% of my entry fee for a track day.

[hOngsterr]

I'm so anal, I use a @#%king Craftsman Torque wrench and not some garbage Autozone one. In fact, my whole "hate walmart/Chinese substandard products" comes from 7 years ago when I was wrenching on my VW, with a Walmart bargain ratchet set (hey, only a moron buys a $500 SnapOn set, you can get one for $15 at Walmart)... my 3/8's Ratchet busted at the handle and I got stitches. Fuck that pig iron shit.


I've used plenty of eBay parts in the past and been disappointed every time. Do it right the first time and only do it once.

ehhh... not picking at anything, but sometimes cheap shit do really hold up, maybe not walmarts, but Harbor Freights TQ wrench does.

MY350Z.COM Forums - View Single Post - Torque wrench? (http://my350z.com/forum/8599860-post3.html)

[jspecusa]

Here's my take on this.
It's a thick piece of metal it will not break apart however
what you are paying is for the ability to bitch and complain if there are problems.

For example, the 2 parts "look" the same, but what if when you install the ebay knock off
and every time you shift there's a noise?

All that money and time spent putting it in and it's becomes nothing more then
an annoying problem.

When you have a company behind a product, they actually do RnD and revision to the product to insure the quality and fitment, therefor you can actually call them and tell them what's wrong with the product vs ebay you are SOL.

Yes, my craftsman and snapon tools "look" the same to me, but when you have been stripping old rusty jdm front clips over 10 years you'll will not appreciate the play the lesser quality tools have over the nice precision fitment tools.

Nothing is worst then a stripped nut or bolt, it creates problem and waste of time.
That's why for all the 8,10,12,14,17mm I have Snapon, it's expensive but at the end
it save me time and money which pays for the difference in pricing.

Last I want to educate people new to this industry, it's a very bad industry for profit especially for retailers.

The average shop makes a profit margin of 15 to 20% which is very low if you know anything about business, and ebay takes about 9% for fees which means the only items
that can survive are no name brand make in china knock off parts due to the low cost.

Experienced ebayer can tell you that name brand stuff is actually higher in price on ebay due to ebay seller increase profit margin to pay for the ebay fees.

In this economy, most retail store don't perform labor will go under, and the bigger they are the faster they fall.

Most company will move toward internet base only vs retail store to cut down cost of operation so they can be competitive in pricing, what that means to you is you'll lose the convenient of same day shopping and advice/help, you'll have to turn to internet for research and help on products.

Just my 5cent,

Sam

[BoostSlideWayz]

everyone seems to be jumping on him for ordering the cheaper ones but he lost at a straw game thats why he had to order em. some people dont believe in like.. *knock offs* ebay has companies that have just as good quality as legitimate companies. every one is all for the expensive stuff and the stuff thats crazy expensive but really your paying for the name.. i have shit on my car from ebay and i couldn't be happier. my friend paid big bucks for a rad from mishmoto and i got mine from cx racing. mine was so much cheaper than his and his is just polished. other than that theres nothing better about his over mine besides the name he paid for.

[CrimsonRockett]

everyone seems to be jumping on him for ordering the cheaper ones but he lost at a straw game thats why he had to order em. some people dont believe in like.. *knock offs* ebay has companies that have just as good quality as legitimate companies. every one is all for the expensive stuff and the stuff thats crazy expensive but really your paying for the name.. i have shit on my car from ebay and i couldn't be happier. my friend paid big bucks for a rad from mishmoto and i got mine from cx racing. mine was so much cheaper than his and his is just polished. other than that theres nothing better about his over mine besides the name he paid for.

Hah, "big bucks" for a Mishimoto radiator? They're the same as ebay radiators. All they do is paint their logo on it and add a fancy sticker to the cap. Try Griffin radiators.

The whole point of this is that there's a difference between a company who spends time R&D'ing a product as compared to someone who just picks that product up, measures it, and copies it with cheaper quality materials.

As mentioned above, if you have trouble with...let's just say SPL subframe bushings. You give them a call, let them know you're having issues, and they'll do the best they can to help.

Now, if a problem arises with the ebay part, you're shit out of luck. Same goes for just about any other "ebay" brand.

ManoNegra for example R&D'd KA oil block adapters. I'm sure he'd be pissed if someone bought one from him, copied it, and sold it for less. About 90% of the time, you pay more for a reason.

We're not telling you to stop ordering eBay parts. Just saying think about it before making your purchase. If it's only a couple more bucks to order a part from a company that stands behind their product (also giving you piece of mind), it's worth it. If you still feel like spending money on a product that MIGHT be junk, fully knowing that if that shit doesn't work out for you, you won't see a cent of that money back, go for it.

We've had this discussion before (several times at that). No use in letting this stay open.