Going even lower.

[wh0aitznic0]

Looking for the best way to go lower than my already maxed out Powered By Max coilovers in the rear. Re-doing rear shock towers and subframe risers are the bottom of the barrel choices.

Some background:
-Car was built with extreme low drift car in mind.
-Powered By Max coils/SPL everything multilink
-Wheels are 18x10 +14 with 225/40 Toyo Proxes 4
-When I was running over -5* of rear camber, there was absolutely no gap betweent rim and fender.
-Went up to -1* and now there's a two finger gap between lip and fender
-SPL toe arms with the bend is two credit cards away from subframe
-PBM coils are maxed.

Not many people on here have the balls to go that low so I'm looking for advice from Marcus, Yuta, Matej, etc. People that have gone LOWLOWLOW.

[240KA]

you could PM those elite members who know all about that low low biz since you specifically mentioned them, oh wait you want that street cred.

hey yall check out nic0!!!! he's bout to steez on you foolz cuz he can go low low!!

[lflkajfj12123]

Subframe risers will help a LITTLE.

[Bubba Chaos]

Pics of current ride height?

[tanks13]

^^^^^^what he said!

[ZenkiKid]

marcus is running the subframe risers. Other than that hes done the typical things to go low. Did you flip the front brackets of your max coils? I hear that flipping them allows you to go even lower

[cardoza]

Hope you can get lower in front too because otherwise you'll be having some silly reverse rake.

[CleanAndLegit]

awww i wanna go that lowwww ):
actually a lil lower

[Weedm]

did you already droop the rears to the max? <-- I just learned what droop meant.

[wh0aitznic0]

you could PM those elite members who know all about that low low biz since you specifically mentioned them, oh wait you want that street cred.

hey yall check out nic0!!!! he's bout to steez on you foolz cuz he can go low low!!

Lol why do you have sand in your vagina, Oklahoma?

Anyway here's a pic of it before. I did NOT touch the height adjustment but somehow when I removed negative camber, the rear raised up to about where my fronts are. This is my desired height again.

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w95/wh0aitznic0/utf-8BSU1HMDAwMzAtMjAxMDA4MjYtMTgzNC5qcGc.jpg

[lflkajfj12123]

oh yeah

gotta droop dat shit homie

[PoorMans180SX]

Subframe risers are really easy to install.

Plus any lower and you're going to have to push the subframe up so your toe arm doesn't hit/bend.

Or you could get PSM toearms. They're way more bent.

You took out collars, yes?

[wh0aitznic0]

did you already droop the rears to the max? <-- I just learned what droop meant.

Talking about the rears. The front's I'm satisfied with.

Can't droop PBM's, dudes. It's designed really short unlike Megans which are long. The bottom bracket ends where the collars for the spring start and if you remove a collar, the bracket bottoms out at the housing. Definitely maxed out.

[lflkajfj12123]

That's balls. Guess you should have bought stance ;)

[PoorMans180SX]

Driftworks knuckles.

Bolt on, no modifying strut towers.

Instantly 1.6 inches lower. Improved suspension geometry.

It's a win-win.

[Matej]

You could get shorter springs.
However, the ride height looks awesome in the picture you posted. Personally I would just go back to the -5° camber, because I think the -1° positive-looking rear camber that is so popular in drifting nowadays looks ugly.

I am all about the 2001 Kogouchi dropped-from-a-crane look.
44LifXsVUSE

[HS13KLS]

you could PM those elite members who know all about that low low biz since you specifically mentioned them, oh wait you want that street cred.

hey yall check out nic0!!!! he's bout to steez on you foolz cuz he can go low low!!

HAHA that is the funniest thing Ive read in a while.


and bro, my cars so low.. i lay frame and lift my wheels off the ground.

[CleanAndLegit]

HAHA that is the funniest thing Ive read in a while.


and bro, my cars so low.. i lay frame and lift my wheels off the ground.
lmfao that made me do this
^^^^
ahaha and to op i like how your car was :p
im going for that low possibly lower in rear my exhaust is about 1 and half fingers from the floor i need better exhaust clearance ):

[PoorMans180SX]

HAHA that is the funniest thing Ive read in a while.


and bro, my cars so low.. i lay frame and lift my wheels off the ground.

Jealous much?

[Weedm]

ah i see. cant droop pbm's. shit. lol.

and did you mean when you added positive camber, the rear raised up a bit? I went from -5 camber to -1 and my rear raised about 1/2 inch or so.

[Def]

Shorter springs? It's not like you need/can use the suspension travel you have now.

[RurouniMidnight]

I'd say get subframe risers notch out above the ruca so they won't hit, and pbm bent toe arms. Also why do you want -1 camber? id only try for that with serious track car maybe a nice mediate halfway point between -5 and -1 that you can work with.

[joshchewuhh]

doesnt pbm sell a shorter spring for there coils?

[fckillerbee]

wait...you removed camber....and your car sits higher? why does that not make sense....if anything...it would sit flatter on the tire. Ever notice how your car lifts when you turn...its cause camber causes it to.

get a smaller tire. go 35 series. 215 35 dropped my car about half an inch.

I don't think the risers will lower your car. they just fix geometry. I have not researched driftwork knuckles on if they do lower your car more. maybe visit their site.

i'm running stance coils with 18's on my s14, and my fender and wheel are about 5mm apart. with -1.7 degrees camber.


below with -6 degrees camber. maxed out stance.
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s70/davidhamburg/dropped1.jpg?t=1288831458


didn't change any heighth....camber now sits at 1.7 degrees. Notice how much lower the rear skirt is.
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s70/davidhamburg/0023.jpg?t=1288831523

if I add more camber...that only brings the rim closer to the fender, and the car higher off the ground.

think of a box. what happens with you add camber to a box that is at zero degrees...better yet, grab a stack of post its, and lay it on one side. when you rotate it (add - camber) it gets taller. as simple as I can make it.

just get a smaller diameter tire. with the understanding that you want the car lower, and not the wheel closer to the fender. cause those are actually two different things.

[zerooath]

Just cut the coils on your already low coilovers since handling and functionality obviously isnt what your going for.

[PoorMans180SX]

wait...you removed camber....and your car sits higher? why does that not make sense....if anything...it would sit flatter on the tire. Ever notice how your car lifts when you turn...its cause camber causes it to.

get a smaller tire. go 35 series. 215 35 dropped my car about half an inch.

I don't think the risers will lower your car. they just fix geometry. I have not researched driftwork knuckles on if they do lower your car more. maybe visit their site.

i'm running stance coils with 18's on my s14, and my fender and wheel are about 5mm apart. with -1.7 degrees camber.

Risers lower the rear by 15mm. I've used them.

Driftworks knuckles do lower the car. That's their whole point.

[Weedm]

wait...you removed camber....and your car sits higher? why does that not make sense....if anything...it would sit flatter on the tire. Ever notice how your car lifts when you turn...its cause camber causes it to.


I didnt think so either until I did it and measured my exhaust clearance. it went from 1.5 inch clearance to almost 2 inches..

perhaps it has to do with the tire as well. maybe if the tire compound or tire pressure is too soft or low, when the tire sits at an angle with negative camber, the weight of the car mushes it down. i dunno.

[airhead]

get them switches!
http://2tha9s.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/eazy-e.jpg

[Martino]

http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/4858/dsc0244v.jpg

http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/3341/dsc0237gf.jpg

PM [email protected]
Username: .white240.

[chiboy002]

shorter springs


also, guys, wtf does dropping mean/ how do you do it?

[fckillerbee]

Risers lower the rear by 15mm. I've used them.

Driftworks knuckles do lower the car. That's their whole point.

Nice, good to know as I will be getting risers pretty soon.

Good info on the driftworks stuff, I was aware that they fixed geometry, didn't know they did it through lowering the vehicle. I haven't got into that with my car yet. lol

[fckillerbee]

http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/4858/dsc0244v.jpg

http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/3341/dsc0237gf.jpg

PM [email protected]
Username: .white240.

more info please...that dude is gonna get a million pms.

[dontxploitme]

that's baller... wish i could weld

[silviaguy240]

see that wont exactly make your car lower, you're still gonna run into issues of arms binding. that just helps so you can have proper stroke on certain coils and so you wont have to preload/droop. if you keep the whole coilover the same length and move it up 3 inches the arms are gonna go with it.

[wh0aitznic0]

That's balls. Guess you should have bought stance ;)

Lol bro, but then I'd be making the same topic on how to get my fronts lower.

Driftworks knuckles.

Bolt on, no modifying strut towers.

Instantly 1.6 inches lower. Improved suspension geometry.

It's a win-win.

I like this.

You could get shorter springs.
However, the ride height looks awesome in the picture you posted. Personally I would just go back to the -5° camber, because I think the -1° positive-looking rear camber that is so popular in drifting nowadays looks ugly.

I am all about the 2001 Kogouchi dropped-from-a-crane look.
44LifXsVUSE

I also like this idea. Just dislike the uneven tirewear.

HAHA that is the funniest thing Ive read in a while.


and bro, my cars so low.. i lay frame and lift my wheels off the ground.

Formula D called, they want their mindset back.

I'd say get subframe risers notch out above the ruca so they won't hit, and pbm bent toe arms. Also why do you want -1 camber? id only try for that with serious track car maybe a nice mediate halfway point between -5 and -1 that you can work with.

Just wanted better tire wear. The car is DEFINITELY not a serious track car but it also isn't a DD.

wait...you removed camber....and your car sits higher? why does that not make sense....if anything...it would sit flatter on the tire. Ever notice how your car lifts when you turn...its cause camber causes it to.

get a smaller tire. go 35 series. 215 35 dropped my car about half an inch.

I don't think the risers will lower your car. they just fix geometry. I have not researched driftwork knuckles on if they do lower your car more. maybe visit their site.

i'm running stance coils with 18's on my s14, and my fender and wheel are about 5mm apart. with -1.7 degrees camber.


below with -6 degrees camber. maxed out stance.

didn't change any heighth....camber now sits at 1.7 degrees. Notice how much lower the rear skirt is.

if I add more camber...that only brings the rim closer to the fender, and the car higher off the ground.

think of a box. what happens with you add camber to a box that is at zero degrees...better yet, grab a stack of post its, and lay it on one side. when you rotate it (add - camber) it gets taller. as simple as I can make it.

just get a smaller diameter tire. with the understanding that you want the car lower, and not the wheel closer to the fender. cause those are actually two different things.

You missed the point. See how when you had hella camber, the rim looked closer to your fender? THAT'S what I want.

[upsdude]

take your wheels off-then you'll be really close to the ground

[[email protected]]

Wow.... a bunch of smart comments in here.

I would recommend either extending your strut towers.... if thats an option... similar to what I did on my old vert.... or modifying the knuckle.

Both require welding... and aren't accessable to most people however.

bolt on options; shorter springs. Look up Swift Springs... excellent quality, and they make any size you need.

Or driftwerks knuckles. But thats big money.

Easiest? probably a smaller tire.

[lflkajfj12123]

Cut the PBM springs not like they're good anyways.

[mikefc]

Love this thread.

[icedsole]

i just let my rucas hit the frame and self clearence themselves.
luckily my toe arms havent hit yet. id just do the strut tower trick
and some subframe spacers, then get out a grinder and start cutting.

but for people that think race cars are high.... yall ever seen dtm cars or anything?

[Style]

this is my car
17x9 -5 front 18x10 -22 back
20mm front
50mm back

tucking rim in the back, being flush is ghey in my opinion its all about being sunk and tucking rim. just look at my car and you will see what i mean.

car has kei office coilovers, swift springs (smaller than kei office) spl suspension parts. notched frame for ruca to clear, notched the piece that holds the subframe collar to clear the toe rod.

car is aligned to 1.5 rear camber 3.5 front camber
notice how the sideskirt is perfect hight front and back, this is perfect ride height in my opinion as your car has a rake which looks vicious
when you are as low as i am you will scrape on the reflectors on the road and your tranny hits lots of things but shit looks super sick to me.

http://i56.tinypic.com/2h7q8o7.jpg
http://i53.tinypic.com/2w3vyww.jpg

[icedsole]

^ i like you

[jesse_s13]

funny shit. easyyyyy:nono:get them switches!
http://2tha9s.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/eazy-e.jpg

[wh0aitznic0]

this is my car
17x9 -5 front 18x10 -22 back
20mm front
50mm back

tucking rim in the back, being flush is ghey in my opinion its all about being sunk and tucking rim. just look at my car and you will see what i mean.

car has kei office coilovers, swift springs (smaller than kei office) spl suspension parts. notched frame for ruca to clear, notched the piece that holds the subframe collar to clear the toe rod.

car is aligned to 1.5 rear camber 3.5 front camber
notice how the sideskirt is perfect hight front and back, this is perfect ride height in my opinion as your car has a rake which looks vicious
when you are as low as i am you will scrape on the reflectors on the road and your tranny hits lots of things but shit looks super sick to me.



I like.

I just wish your front was an inch lower.

Gonna remove collars and droop next time I work on it. Though I don't think drooping will do anything much.

[95KA-Turbo]

So to beat a dead horse.


You will need shorter springs OR the shock tower weld on pieces to lower your rear more and keep the same camber specs.

You will need drop spindles or subframe risers to keep from destroying your toe arms - the 1/2" you'll get from the risers probably wont be enough room in the event of a large pot hole or dropping a tire at the track.

You will need to notch/hammer out the area above your camber arms to help prevent those from being destroyed as well.


I broke two sets of rucas because I didn't think I needed to clearance the area above them. I had a friend break his toe arms on the interstate because they bashed into his subframe too many times. SPL parts are way nicer then the RUCAs I broke and the toe arms my friend broke, but over time somethings gotta give.




I am curious to hear how high your fender arches and tension rod brackets are from the ground. You should measure them and post it up.

[wh0aitznic0]

So to beat a dead horse.


You will need shorter springs OR the shock tower weld on pieces to lower your rear more and keep the same camber specs.

You will need drop spindles or subframe risers to keep from destroying your toe arms - the 1/2" you'll get from the risers probably wont be enough room in the event of a large pot hole or dropping a tire at the track.

You will need to notch/hammer out the area above your camber arms to help prevent those from being destroyed as well.


I broke two sets of rucas because I didn't think I needed to clearance the area above them. I had a friend break his toe arms on the interstate because they bashed into his subframe too many times. SPL parts are way nicer then the RUCAs I broke and the toe arms my friend broke, but over time somethings gotta give.




I am curious to hear how high your fender arches and tension rod brackets are from the ground. You should measure them and post it up.

Actually, just thinking about it, I don't wanna do all that damn work. I don't like drooping coilovers and don't know how to weld. I also don't feel like spending $700 to get driftworks knuckles into the country. Therefore, I'm going to camber the hell out of them again. Probably -3.5* or -4*ish.

Gives the illusion of lowness. My rear fenders are pulled to hell so I can run the -1*. My tension rod brackets are FUCKED. You can put a finger underneath my crossmember but that's about it.

I actually don't understand how people break RUCA's. I have plenty of room with mine and they don't even look close to hitting. No marks either.

[95KA-Turbo]

Mine only broke because I was board sliding my car on a rumble strip and my drivers side wheel went into a ~1 foot hole. I replaced the RUCA and proceeded to do it again at the same spot at the next drift event, lol. I stopped buying crappy ass china arms after that and learned how to take that corner properly.


Thats nuts about your crossmember/tension rods. Mine are like 2" off the ground, I'm worried how it'll turn out driving it around.


If you get a soft plastic hammer you can heat up and tap the edge of your fender lip back in about 1/4 of an inch.


If this is it with the -1ish camber you will be fine by just adding 1 degree of camber.
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w95/wh0aitznic0/utf-8BSU1HMDAxMDAtMjAxMDExMDMtMTUzMy5qcGc.jpg

[articdragon192]

I actually don't understand how people break RUCA's. I have plenty of room with mine and they don't even look close to hitting. No marks either.

Mostly S14s do because there's this metal apron right above where the RUCA travels, very similar to that metal apron on the front os an S13 right above the tire that needs to be hammered flat.

[Marcus]

^^WORD. S14s have this stupid seem just like your front wheel wells.

Theoretically the subframe risers should not have affected your ride height as that is dictated by the length of your compressed rear coilover. For instance, if the rear knuckle has a fixed vertical distance from your chassis (unchanged coilover length), your ride height should be maintained. Moving the pivot(raising subframe) should have no affect on ride height, but only roll center. which has more to do with the dynamics of the suspension rather than the height at rest.

That is all theoretical. I forgot to note ACTUAL changes in ride height but i can say for sure that my wheels were pushed out at least 8mils.

Here is my old TCsportline camber arms BEFORE subframe risers and before i smashed the seem:::
http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll110/samaniego_ms/DSC04782.jpg
http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll110/samaniego_ms/DSC04780.jpg





wait...you removed camber....and your car sits higher? why does that not make sense....if anything...it would sit flatter on the tire. Ever notice how your car lifts when you turn...its cause camber causes it to.



I seem to have a different understanding of why that happens.

For the rear, when you remove camber (going from -5 to -1) your wheel will stand up straight and the height of the hub will be half of the overall diameter of the tire. when you angle that, (give camber) the height of the hub will be a smaller percentage of that. FUck this is really hard to explain without pictures.

umm lets see. take a ruler. It is 12 inches tall if standing perfectly vertical. Now angle that same ruler (give it camber) and now the top of that ruler is no longer 12 inches above the ground. make sense?



For the front, it is different because there is caster. The car lifts when turning because of caster. If you were to have 0degrees caster, then the wheel would rotate on a perfectly vertical axis and would cause no lift. it is because the axis of rotation is not perfectly vertical that the car lifts. the axis of rotation is at something like 7degrees

check out 0:18 of this video:::
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KP5zzyAmXi0&feature=player_embedded

[wh0aitznic0]

If this is it with the -1ish camber you will be fine by just adding 1 degree of camber.

Yeah that's it. VERY noticeable difference in height.

^^WORD. S14s have this stupid seem just like your front wheel wells.

I seem to have a different understanding of why that happens.

For the rear, when you remove camber (going from -5 to -1) your wheel will stand up straight and the height of the hub will be half of the overall diameter of the tire. when you angle that, (give camber) the height of the hub will be a smaller percentage of that. FUck this is really hard to explain without pictures.
YouTube - Drift Tengoku - Part #1 - Steering modifications, Increasing Lock. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KP5zzyAmXi0&feature=player_embedded)

Damn, Marcus that RUCA placement looks TERRIBLE lol. So glad I don't have an S14. But I like the whole ruler theory. Going from a straight up ruler to a 5* angle ruler with a completely flat even plane above it you can notice the height difference from the top. Explains alot.

[nathanong87]

also if u use subframe riser jawnts, u will need to add slightly more negative camber for the same tire to fender clearances. just an afterthought

[SoSideways]

Dunno why you guys don't think Stance can go low.

I can probably tuck my 215/40/17s up front all the way up to the rims with just the lower bracket's collar moved to the bottom of the bracket, and still have both the collars on the springs on.

The rear I can tuck quite a bit of lip of the rim with droop, or if I were to do it properly, add some tender springs to the setup.

However, I am not impressed by their valving, thus I will be selling my set of coilovers soon.

[lflkajfj12123]

Stance #1 ^_________________________^

[silviaguy240]

but for people that think race cars are high.... yall ever seen dtm cars or anything?

DTM cars and such are essentially body dropped with crazy aero and still have proper suspension geometry.

Dunno why you guys don't think Stance can go low.

I can probably tuck my 215/40/17s up front all the way up to the rims with just the lower bracket's collar moved to the bottom of the bracket, and still have both the collars on the springs on.

The rear I can tuck quite a bit of lip of the rim with droop, or if I were to do it properly, add some tender springs to the setup.

However, I am not impressed by their valving, thus I will be selling my set of coilovers soon.

Stance #1 ^_________________________^
seriously. my rear toe arms will bind before i need to take any collars off my stance. but after i get my pbm toe arms we'll have to see.

[95KA-Turbo]

I am pretty sure the only reason Stance go so low is because they use super short springs. The springs on my friend's Stance coils were ~1 and a 1/4 inches shorter then my Fortune springs. My Fortunes have 8" springs, where the Stance had just under 7" springs. Fortune offers Swift springs now though, so you can get 6" springs if you want.

Take your rear springs off and measure how big the inner diameter is on them. I'm pretty sure Fortunes use 65mm springs, and Swift makes 60, 65, and 70mm springs and go for ~85-95 bucks a piece so you can spend 300 bucks and get two new springs and subframe risers out back to fix your low issues.

[CrimsonRockett]

Knuckles still seem like a better choice.

Not a cheap alternative, but it fixes a lot of things at once.

[95KA-Turbo]

Very true, if he has 3 times what the springs and subframe risers cost then he should definitely get the drop spindles.

[SoSideways]

Yeah but he already threw out the knuckle idea, so other than subframe risers and perhaps shorter springs, there really isn't much else left to do.

[thefro526]

You guys are talking about drop spindles like they're easy to get. Aren't the drift-works units the only ones that are "readily" available, and you still have to ship them across the pond?

I mean, they're definitely the way to go, if you can get them.

Nico, are you driving the Clinic on the 13th?

[chiboy002]

I am pretty sure the only reason Stance go so low is because they use super short springs. The springs on my friend's Stance coils were ~1 and a 1/4 inches shorter then my Fortune springs. My Fortunes have 8" springs, where the Stance had just under 7" springs. Fortune offers Swift springs now though, so you can get 6" springs if you want.

Take your rear springs off and measure how big the inner diameter is on them. I'm pretty sure Fortunes use 65mm springs, and Swift makes 60, 65, and 70mm springs and go for ~85-95 bucks a piece so you can spend 300 bucks and get two new springs and subframe risers out back to fix your low issues.
stance also offers shorter springs if you want to go even lower, i heard theyre 60$ a spring or something like that

[1on1]

whoaitznico, if you plan on taking out your front collars off the pbm coils, can i buy two of them off you?

[wh0aitznic0]

I already took them off lol. I'm keeping them just in case I sell the car to a homosexual with aspirations of going to Formula D.

Where's the clinic on the 13th at?

[thefro526]

Where's the clinic on the 13th at?

Road Course. I'm not going to be there, my car isn't done, but it should be a rad time.

Club Loose » Blog Archive » End of the year Clinic! 11/13/10 (http://www.clubloose.com/clubloose/index.php/2010/10/25/end-of-the-year-clinic-111310/)

[SoSideways]

Wait... what exactly is your method of lowering your car wh0aitznic0?

[wh0aitznic0]

1. Add negative camber
2. ???
3. Profit.

[PoorMans180SX]

You guys are talking about drop spindles like they're easy to get. Aren't the drift-works units the only ones that are "readily" available, and you still have to ship them across the pond?

I mean, they're definitely the way to go, if you can get them.

Nico, are you driving the Clinic on the 13th?

It's really easy.

1. Call Driftworks

2. Order knuckles.

3. Wait for them to come.

[nieko]

^^WORD. S14s have this stupid seem just like your front wheel wells.

Here is my old TCsportline camber arms BEFORE subframe risers and before i smashed the seem:::
http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll110/samaniego_ms/DSC04782.jpg
http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll110/samaniego_ms/DSC04780.jpg



You realize the reason your RUCA is hitting your frame is because you have it on upside down right?

LOLOL

See how your super cool bent ruca to add extra clearence is pointing UPWARDS? You have it on wrong bro lolol

Put that one you have right there, over to the passenger side. -____-

[thefro526]

It's really easy.

1. Call Driftworks

2. Order knuckles.

3. Wait for them to come.

Yeah, I understand that much, but a sole supplier doesn't really make them readily available in my mind, especially if that supplier is across an Ocean.

I was kind of trying to say that Drop Spindles aren't like Modified Knuckles for more angle, you can't go to one of 10 shops and get them, yet people were talking about them as if it were that easy.

[nieko]

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g258/NiekoG/DSC04780.jpg

Blue line is how you have it.

Red line is how it should be.

[PoorMans180SX]

Neiko, I'm pretty sure that's a flat RUCA.

[SoSideways]

1. Add negative camber
2. ???
3. Profit.

I mean like, are you doing it wrong and putting preload on the spring to lower the car like some idiots on here have done?

Or are you using the lower bracket method (the correct way)?

If you are using the lower bracket method, and you run out of room, then just droop spring if you can (in the back).

[PoorMans180SX]

I am pretty sure the only reason Stance go so low is because they use super short springs. The springs on my friend's Stance coils were ~1 and a 1/4 inches shorter then my Fortune springs. My Fortunes have 8" springs, where the Stance had just under 7" springs. Fortune offers Swift springs now though, so you can get 6" springs if you want.

Take your rear springs off and measure how big the inner diameter is on them. I'm pretty sure Fortunes use 65mm springs, and Swift makes 60, 65, and 70mm springs and go for ~85-95 bucks a piece so you can spend 300 bucks and get two new springs and subframe risers out back to fix your low issues.

You talking about for the rear? I'm looking for a nic0-like ride height too and I'm about to order Fortunes.

BTW, Swifts are $159 a pair + shipping, and washers if you want them.

Swift coilover springs - SPL PARTS (http://splparts.com/store/product-info.php?pid127.html)

[wh0aitznic0]

I mean like, are you doing it wrong and putting preload on the spring to lower the car like some idiots on here have done?

Or are you using the lower bracket method (the correct way)?

If you are using the lower bracket method, and you run out of room, then just droop spring if you can (in the back).

Nope, absolutely no preload. Top collar is just touching the spring, leaving no room for the spring to move up and down freely (droop). If I preload it even a little bit, the bottom bracket bottoms out at the shock's base.

[SoSideways]

Nope, absolutely no preload. Top collar is just touching the spring, leaving no room for the spring to move up and down freely (droop). If I preload it even a little bit, the bottom bracket bottoms out at the shock's base.

Gotcha.

Try a tiny little bit of droop.

Make sure after you adjust it, go out and throw the car from side to side to get the dampers to settle, then park it and look at it again.

Should be right where you want it.

[95KA-Turbo]

You talking about for the rear? I'm looking for a nic0-like ride height too and I'm about to order Fortunes.

BTW, Swifts are $159 a pair + shipping, and washers if you want them.

Swift coilover springs - SPL PARTS (http://splparts.com/store/product-info.php?pid127.html)

I was talking about the front. S14s don't have any issues with going low in the rear at all - especially since I have Z32 rear spindles, that basically means I have S13 rear coilovers on my S14. They're like 3" shorter then S13 ones. I can lower my car like 5 inches more then this:

http://i54.tinypic.com/10hiqvl.jpg


I'd like to also mention that Swift springs will make your coilovers work better too. The springs are manufactured way better then 95% of the springs that come on coilovers out of the box out there.





Oh I can't believe I didn't mention this either. You can take the part that mounts to your spindle off and cut an inch or so off of it to let you lower it more. I did that to my fronts.

[fckillerbee]

^

umm lets see. take a ruler. It is 12 inches tall if standing perfectly vertical. Now angle that same ruler (give it camber) and now the top of that ruler is no longer 12 inches above the ground. make sense?






here, i'll make it more simple.

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s70/davidhamburg/camber.jpg?t=1288907502


questions???

[fckillerbee]

You realize the reason your RUCA is hitting your frame is because you have it on upside down right?

LOLOL

See how your super cool bent ruca to add extra clearence is pointing UPWARDS? You have it on wrong bro lolol

Put that one you have right there, over to the passenger side. -____-


to back nieko up, i don't believe they are upside down...but more so left to right is wrong.

[Marcus]

No they are not on the wrong side nor are they bent upwards. They are flat RUCAs. It's just the angle of the pic. Those were whack ass tcsportline RUCAs. Google them buddy, they're flat. And since they're flat, it wouldn't matter what side they're on. They're gone now anyway

I see your point fckiller but I too have experience with removing camber and having a higher ride height. Try it lol. But what about the front, agree with me on that?

[fckillerbee]

No they are not on the wrong side nor are they bent upwards. They are flat RUCAs. It's just the angle of the pic. Those were whack ass tcsportline RUCAs. Google them buddy, they're flat. And since they're flat, it wouldn't matter what side they're on. They're gone now anyway

I see your point fckiller but I too have experience with removing camber and having a higher ride height. Try it lol. But what about the front, agree with me on that?


I did...it lowered my car.

and to be honest, i really don't know about caster. but I watch my car when I turn. i'm at -4.5 degrees. so when I turn, i watch the tire flatten on the ground. while the other side lifts up.

i almost wonder what your guys tire pressure is, and what kind of tires. as a stretched tire, may be shorter at the edge....which may not make any difference when you remove camber....

i'm not trying to argue with you....it's mathematics. That's what I'm good at. that is all. now obviously tire pressure has a factor, as i'm running about 45psi in the rear....so I wouldnt know about why your guys car isn't lowering back down.....but it does pull away from the fender, and that does mean the wheel is lower than then fender after removing camber. wheels don't magically get longer....and this guys tires didn't change...and now he has a fender gap?.....it's probably just his tire pressure. but again, i'm only guessing.

I work for a tire company...this is all i do....is put tires on special vehicles, making sure measurements are exact. I did align and lower my car, fit my wheels, and fit the fenders by myself......so i can say, yes, i have tried it, and my theory was absolutely correct, as I put all this together at once...measured everything from a stock body. and just ordered....

but again, I have no idea about the caster thing...all i know about caster is higher it is, more the car drives for you....lol. and even then....thats something someone told me. lol

[chitownguy]

Adding negative camber just makes it appear lower because it pushes the wheel lip higher up into the fender while removing neg. camber will expose more of the tire, assuming you never touched the suspension.

Although adding neg. camber doesn't necessarily mean your car is higher because tires have rounded sidewalls and are not solid. Therefore, using a box with straight edges wouldn't be correct. How far the coilover mounts from the spindle/hub would also matter. The change in ride height would be dependent on the distance of the mounting point from the hub and amount of negative camber but I can't imagine the change in ride height would be too noticeable. Wheel offset and width would also play a part, I imagine.

[fckillerbee]

Adding negative camber just makes it appear lower because it pushes the wheel lip higher up into the fender while removing neg. camber will expose more of the tire, assuming you never touched the suspension.

Although adding neg. camber doesn't necessarily mean your car is higher because tires have rounded sidewalls and are not solid. Therefore, using a box with straight edges wouldn't be correct. How far the coilover mounts from the spindle/hub would also matter. The change in ride height would be dependent on the distance of the mounting point from the hub and amount of negative camber but I can't imagine the change in ride height would be too noticeable. Wheel offset and width would also play a part, I imagine.

this probably has more a factor than anything. i'm running a 10 wide with -26 offest.....so removing camber made a huge difference.:wiggle:

[Marcus]

For sure man, I understand the math too. But I'm gonna agree to disagree lol. Its no use to see eye to eye over interwebz.

Tire pressure has a lot to do with it. When cambered, the full weight of that corner of the car is all on the corner of the tire. Force/small area = high pressure. = compressed sidewall
That might be why I thought that. Iono. Gonna eat a banana and think about this more



Eeddiiittt. Holy crap chitown dude is right. Didn't think about that. Awesome so its an illusion.

[mothon]

I thought pbm's were supposed to go low low right out the box. What gives?

And adding taking away camber does raise the car quite a bit.

[pacotaco345]

It depends on your offset.. If you have 0 offset, camber will make no difference in ride height whatsoever, because when you're raising one side of the wheel the other side is lowering. If you have - offset like fckillerbee, removing - camber will lower the car because of the point that the wheel pivots. If you have + offset like most of us with stock bodied cars do, removing - camber will raise the car because of the place where the wheel pivots. That explains why everyone has different results with camber

[undesiredshoe]

Chop off your body panels from your unibody and weld them together and then lower it onto the ground and then weld back onto unibody.

Oh and add some magic dust while you're at it

[fckillerbee]

It depends on your offset.. If you have 0 offset, camber will make no difference in ride height whatsoever, because when you're raising one side of the wheel the other side is lowering. If you have - offset like fckillerbee, removing - camber will lower the car because of the point that the wheel pivots. If you have + offset like most of us with stock bodied cars do, removing - camber will raise the car because of the place where the wheel pivots. That explains why everyone has different results with camber

your 100 percent right...but you forgot...the ground doesn't go anywhere when your wheel lowers on one side.

....it sounded good...but again....no. lol

the tire pressure has a bigger impact. doesn't matter where the mounting point is....it's still geometry. if you look at a tire from the rear, its a square.... whether it rotates away from the car, or on the inside of the car, the pivot is still in the middle of the square.

however i will agree that the larger the width of the wheel vs the heigth, will make a larger impact on how much farther the wheel will raise the car with camber.

http://www.choppercityusa.com/pics/Robert/RW-RearTire.jpg

and this is a motorcycle. ride heighth, arms, nothing...just a wheel and a tire.....if this was your right side of your car, it would have neg camber...notice how one part of the tire is higher on the right then the left....

and motorcylcles have the most rounded tires. and below is why I say tires are square left to right...imagine if that bike had a car tire....that represents camber.

http://www.zorly.com/images_corvette/09-06-08/Michelin%20Pilot%20Sport%20PS2%20-%20tyrereviews.jpg

off set does not matter. I promise....made me think though. lol. now obviously if the width of the rim were smaller, the ride heighth would be less noticable.

sorry for such the large picture....

p.s. i promise i'm not trying to be a dick....i just don't like misleading info. its hard for someone to do research, and find a buttload of mis information. plus, I hate being wrong. I want to know everything! lol

[chitownguy]

The coilover mounting point does matter, offset does matter(but not much) and most of you guys don't have squared tires on your wheels anyways.

Either way, lots of neg. camber gives the illusion of being lower. As seen here:
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4055/4620055535_63e400d1ec_b.jpg

[fckillerbee]

The coilover mounting point does matter, offset does matter(but not much) and most of you guys don't have squared tires on your wheels anyways.




what? i put a picture up of a bike that has nothing to do with that....man you are in complete denial.

that car looks low cause it's rim is under the fender. but that is the lowest part of that rim....the rest of the rim is higher then where the fender is.

people...there is a difference from being low....and looking low. I could buy 20's for my 14 and concave the shit out of it till it tucked rim, and my car would still be 4 feet off the ground.

this thread is becoming more pointless....the guy wants his rim to touch fender without heavy modifying. so add camber. done.

if you want your car lower....remove camber...done. this isn't a debate. it's factual. and a motorcycle tire is as round as they get.....and you can clearly see the right side of the bike is higher than the left (on top).

do I have to photochop the bike and make it look like a car so you guys can actually get the idea.

ahh i get it....you guys just want to see how many ways i can explain this differently.

[fckillerbee]

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4055/4620055535_63e400d1ec_b.jpg

this picture only shows what tucking rim looks like....and if that is what low looks like to you....then this is not low.
http://memimage.cardomain.com/ride_images/3/3205/21/33010010117_large.jpg

low is actually lowering your center of gravity. tucking wheel...doesn't make a car low.

http://a666.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/82/l_4ff2600d92b92cb836d8482c7a96f299.jpg

more camber pictures showing the heighth of a wheel with camber...

[95KA-Turbo]

With -4 camber:

http://knoop.sumospeed.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/blog-pull1.jpg


With 0 camber - I had to lower the coilover almost an inch lower then it was at -4 to get it to tuck tire again, and have the car body be at the same height it was at.
http://knoop.sumospeed.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/blog-pull7.jpg

[fckillerbee]

With -4 camber:

http://knoop.sumospeed.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/blog-pull1.jpg


With 0 camber - I had to lower the coilover almost an inch lower then it was at -4 to get it to tuck tire again, and have the car body be at the same height it was at.
http://knoop.sumospeed.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/blog-pull7.jpg


rear tire pressure? and did you move your car from this position....? I like the wider fenders fyi.

[95KA-Turbo]

I wish I hadn't changed the camera angle because I am wigging myself out looking at the two pictures now.

[fckillerbee]

you have moved the car....i can tell by the front. tires are in different positions....the tread doesn't match up.

angles is my area of expertise....i like to draw....like actual real things. lol that's also why i'm a math wiz. lol

[fckillerbee]

lol...i'm look at the angle of the front. if you lower the rear...the front should point up....in theory right.

look at the first beam on your garage...that's a parallel line...if you didn't move your car....then the second picture....the front should be higher up. assuming the pivot point is in the middle of your car. which if all 4 tires are on the ground...it is.

but it looks like the second pictures....your line of site is lower than the first....meaning your vanishing points are pointing downward on your car....vs strait in the first picture...look at the s14 line that goes from the rear fender to the front....in the second picture...it's pointing down...which means you took a picture from a lower heighth.

[pacotaco345]

your 100 percent right...but you forgot...the ground doesn't go anywhere when your wheel lowers on one side.

....it sounded good...but again....no. lol



p.s. i promise i'm not trying to be a dick....i just don't like misleading info. its hard for someone to do research, and find a buttload of mis information. plus, I hate being wrong. I want to know everything! lol

Damn.. you're right lol I thot I was on to something too. O wells, and I didn't take it as dick-ish anyways haha so no worries :) BUT!!! And I think I'm right on this one lol, the less offset you have the more that camber will affect how much tire you tuck. For example if you have + offset all the way to the face of the wheel, the rest of the tire will pivot around that point, and the top of the wheel will move inside and down with - camber, not inside and up.

[fckillerbee]

Damn.. you're right lol I thot I was on to something too. O wells, and I didn't take it as dick-ish anyways haha so no worries :) BUT!!! And I think I'm right on this one lol, the less offset you have the more that camber will affect how much tire you tuck. For example if you have + offset all the way to the face of the wheel, the rest of the tire will pivot around that point, and the top of the wheel will move inside and down with - camber, not inside and up.


umm....i'm kinda sure what you mean...but almost not really.

if I drew it out for you...i'm sure it would make sense.

lets just use a normal 10 wide wheel so we are clear. and lets make "zero" offset...directly in the middle of the fender (assuming we aren't calculating for the backpad)

now if the weel had -25 offset, that would move the face farther away from the fender....meaning it would require more camber to pull it toward the fender.

if the wheel had +125 offset.....the face would be directly below the fender (125mm is roughly 5 inches...which is half of the wheel. mounting point would now be the face of the rim.) and in this case...to touch the fender...you would just lower the car accordingly (assuming the car doesn't camber in when lowered)

so if that is what you were saying....then yes! i completely agree! lol

[pacotaco345]

lol I don't think we're on the same page.. I drew a picture tho!!
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e392/pacotaco345/P1010050.jpg
When you pivot the wheel around a point, the top outside corner of the wheel will continue to raise until it passes the pivot point. In the case of a zero offset wheel, you would have to continue adding camber until it the corner rotated past the centerline in order for the corner to stop rising. The more - offset you have, the longer it takes for the edge of the wheel to reach it's apex, and the more + offset you have, the less time it takes for the corner to reach the apex of its arc. So for the sake of purely tucking the most tire possible and not going low, you would dial in enough - camber to rotate the outside corner of the wheel directly above it's pivot point, and (up) into the fender.

[fckillerbee]

ahhhhhh. i think I get what you are saying....so it looks like the bottom pic would actually raise the heith more than 0 offset. then that should be the same for negative offset...so in other words...zero offset would have the least effect.

and yeah...i see what you are saying about mounting point.....it would need less camber on the wheel below to give desired tuck....and yes, that would be less added heighth then a wheel with neg camber....

i see what you are saying.... my mind was stuck on" but it makes the car higher" lol...yes you agreed to that...just the higher the offset, cambering a wheel requires less to get it towards the fender...but would still raise the car a little...just not as much as a negative offset wheel would.

great job! I do stand corrected!

lol...17 year olds...still taking me to school. lol

[95KA-Turbo]

you have moved the car....i can tell by the front. tires are in different positions....the tread doesn't match up.

angles is my area of expertise....i like to draw....like actual real things. lol that's also why i'm a math wiz. lol

lol...i'm look at the angle of the front. if you lower the rear...the front should point up....in theory right.

look at the first beam on your garage...that's a parallel line...if you didn't move your car....then the second picture....the front should be higher up. assuming the pivot point is in the middle of your car. which if all 4 tires are on the ground...it is.

but it looks like the second pictures....your line of site is lower than the first....meaning your vanishing points are pointing downward on your car....vs strait in the first picture...look at the s14 line that goes from the rear fender to the front....in the second picture...it's pointing down...which means you took a picture from a lower heighth.


I was using a tripod and forgot that I had zoomed in a little on the first picture. On the second one I am zoomed out all of the way, so there is some lens distortion. I also appear to have moved the tripod to the right a little bit.

I couldn't get this to slow down...so sorry if anyone has epilepsy.
http://i53.tinypic.com/23hn5h2.gif

The front mirror and side of the car appear to be at the same height.

[fckillerbee]

I was using a tripod and forgot that I had zoomed in a little on the first picture. On the second one I am zoomed out all of the way, so there is some lens distortion. I also appear to have moved the tripod to the right a little bit.

I couldn't get this to slow down...so sorry if anyone has epilepsy.


The front mirror and side of the car appear to be at the same height.

lol.....its an inch....lol...and the mirrors are closer to the center then the furthest point. which is your bumper.

but now that we know offsets make a difference....whats your wheel specs? lol

and here is something to look at....the shadow under your car....near the front wheel...it moves with your camera picture.....car and shadow are parallel in both pictures...buttttttt towards the rear...it looks like there is a difference.....but again....you different camera angle doesn't help the cause. lol but I can't tell which is which....lol. that picture is killing me lol.

[Nezahualcoyotl]

that is mesmerizing.

[pacotaco345]

ahhhhhh. i think I get what you are saying....so it looks like the bottom pic would actually raise the heith more than 0 offset. then that should be the same for negative offset...so in other words...zero offset would have the least effect.

and yeah...i see what you are saying about mounting point.....it would need less camber on the wheel below to give desired tuck....and yes, that would be less added heighth then a wheel with neg camber....

i see what you are saying.... my mind was stuck on" but it makes the car higher" lol...yes you agreed to that...just the higher the offset, cambering a wheel requires less to get it towards the fender...but would still raise the car a little...just not as much as a negative offset wheel would.

great job! I do stand corrected!

lol...17 year olds...still taking me to school. lol

I feel so accomplished! lol

[fckillerbee]

I feel so accomplished! lol


you should....lol....my wifes family has been out to prove me wrong since I stepped into this family. lol. I usually don't open my mouth unless i'm right. hahahaha.

so please...don't tell her. hahahahahaa.

[95KA-Turbo]

lol.....its an inch....lol...and the mirrors are closer to the center then the furthest point. which is your bumper.

but now that we know offsets make a difference....whats your wheel specs? lol

and here is something to look at....the shadow under your car....near the front wheel...it moves with your camera picture.....car and shadow are parallel in both pictures...buttttttt towards the rear...it looks like there is a difference.....but again....you different camera angle doesn't help the cause. lol but I can't tell which is which....lol. that picture is killing me lol.

Lol, I had saved it with a 1 second delay between the pictures but it will not keep it no matter what it does.

My rear wheels in that picture are 17X11 +12.

ANNNNNND to make it more complicated I have PBM subframe risers out back and have custom roll center adjusters in it, so that makes the LCA effectively longer so the wheel pokes more then it would on a stock S14.



Here is what doesn't mesh with me. With more camber, the camber arm is shorter, so it pulls the LCA up slightly and makes the distance between the spindle and the fender smaller - effectively lowering the car.

When you take away camber you make the camber arm longer, and that moves the LCA down a little, making the distance between the spindle and fender larger and effectively raising the car up.

[pacotaco345]

you should....lol....my wifes family has been out to prove me wrong since I stepped into this family. lol. I usually don't open my mouth unless i'm right. hahahaha.

so please...don't tell her. hahahahahaa.

hahaha I'll try not to, just make sure they don't go on zilvia

[wh0aitznic0]

I was using a tripod and forgot that I had zoomed in a little on the first picture. On the second one I am zoomed out all of the way, so there is some lens distortion. I also appear to have moved the tripod to the right a little bit.

I couldn't get this to slow down...so sorry if anyone has epilepsy.
http://i53.tinypic.com/23hn5h2.gif

The front mirror and side of the car appear to be at the same height.

Perfectly showcases my situation.

I'm just going to add more camber and be done with it. As long as I have more cambAr in the front than the rear, I'm happy.

[dawagarage]

I was using a tripod and forgot that I had zoomed in a little on the first picture. On the second one I am zoomed out all of the way, so there is some lens distortion. I also appear to have moved the tripod to the right a little bit.

I couldn't get this to slow down...so sorry if anyone has epilepsy.
http://i53.tinypic.com/23hn5h2.gif

The front mirror and side of the car appear to be at the same height.

aaaaaah, fucking seizure!!!!

[joel.e.krueger]

I just stared at that for seven minutes...

[C-unit]

^ same here...lol

[lflkajfj12123]

Damn this thread

[enigmadsm]

-1 rear camber isn't going to ride lower than a the same car with -4.

[PoorMans180SX]

Here is what doesn't mesh with me. With more camber, the camber arm is shorter, so it pulls the LCA up slightly and makes the distance between the spindle and the fender smaller - effectively lowering the car.

When you take away camber you make the camber arm longer, and that moves the LCA down a little, making the distance between the spindle and fender larger and effectively raising the car up.

THIS.

/thread.

[fckillerbee]

Lol, I had saved it with a 1 second delay between the pictures but it will not keep it no matter what it does.

My rear wheels in that picture are 17X11 +12.

ANNNNNND to make it more complicated I have PBM subframe risers out back and have custom roll center adjusters in it, so that makes the LCA effectively longer so the wheel pokes more then it would on a stock S14.



Here is what doesn't mesh with me. With more camber, the camber arm is shorter, so it pulls the LCA up slightly and makes the distance between the spindle and the fender smaller - effectively lowering the car.

When you take away camber you make the camber arm longer, and that moves the LCA down a little, making the distance between the spindle and fender larger and effectively raising the car up.

you have to realize you are talking about the lca, and not the ride heighth.

even though the lca moves up and down, your axle does not....measure your axle....add camber....measure it again. i'm sure.

I'm only guessing, but pretty sure I'm right when I say the axle will only move if ride heighth is changed....Your positive camber makes a huge difference as someone else has proven that.



-1 rear camber isn't going to ride lower than a the same car with -4.

clearly you are here just to add posts to your count...as you didn't even read the thread. and are clearly ignorant when it comes to math. As we have proven that theory wrong, and there are other factors that justify adding camber, ride heigth, offset of wheel, as well as tire pressure.

[SoSideways]

you have to realize you are talking about the lca, and not the ride heighth.

even though the lca moves up and down, your axle does not....measure your axle....add camber....measure it again. i'm sure.

I'm only guessing, but pretty sure I'm right when I say the axle will only move if ride heighth is changed....Your positive camber makes a huge difference as someone else has proven that.


The axle can pivot via the CV components, so it doesn't necessarily have to move up or down when you adjust the camber.

However, since all the arms, including the LCA and rear shock, are all attached to the UPRIGHT, when you lengthen the RUCA to dial out camber, the shock and LCA angles will both be slightly affected as the UPRIGHT moves.

[fckillerbee]

The axle can pivot via the CV components, so it doesn't necessarily have to move up or down when you adjust the camber.

However, since all the arms, including the LCA and rear shock, are all attached to the UPRIGHT, when you lengthen the RUCA to dial out camber, the shock and LCA angles will both be slightly affected as the UPRIGHT moves.


i'm sorry that was a bad example....i'm currently making a drawing that should end all questions. lol...as far as camber and ride heighth go....i'm not goint to draw arms, as it isn't necessary in regarding to what I'm trying to say. Now this is heighth...not how close the fender and wheel will be once camber is done.

[fckillerbee]

and what i'm drawing might also help out with those guys worrying about geometry...looks like wheels offset affects that as well....damnit...arms are going to be drawn. anyone have a completely clear rear stock suspension, and one the is dumped. I know there is a dumped one in the suspension geometry thread....but can't remember if there was stock one. also same chassis would help. lol

[wh0aitznic0]

Now this is heighth...not how close the fender and wheel will be once camber is done.

Lol, come on dude now you totally missed the point of the thread!

I always thought Matty's car was really low but wondered why he wasn't tucking rim.

[fckillerbee]

Lol, come on dude now you totally missed the point of the thread!

I always thought Matty's car was really low but wondered why he wasn't tucking rim.


really? cause we already went over that...and all agreed...adding camber brings the rim closer to the fender. that was over.

now we are talking about actual heighth being affected by camber.

that's why I brought up matts car....being low has nothing to do with the fender being close to the rim....well kinda not really. I realized the same thing when I dropped my car to the max. and I orginially had -1 degrees of camber. when I lowerd it, it gave it -5 degrees. Just lowering it. I then said...well this isn't a good track setup, so I then removed camber....watched the wheel create a gap from the fender just by removing camber.....and also noticed my ride heighth was then about an inch lower.... I lowered it about an inch and a half from the previous position.

[lflkajfj12123]

With over fendered cars you can mount them lower giving the illusion of low/flushness.

[SoSideways]

With over fendered cars you can mount them lower giving the illusion of low/flushness.

I'm going to mount my over fenders and aero all an inch lower, so I can be Formula D/D1 ride height but still "look" low.

[enigmadsm]

clearly you are here just to add posts to your count...as you didn't even read the thread. and are clearly ignorant when it comes to math. As we have proven that theory wrong, and there are other factors that justify adding camber, ride heigth, offset of wheel, as well as tire pressure.


I read the entire thread, you have your own theory on the subject, but i'm just not tracking.

Naturally, when you lower a car the camber is going to decrease (more negative camber). When you compensate doing an alignment and put more camber back into it (moving closer to positive) it's not going to lower the car any further, if anything it will raise the ride height slightly.

In the front with increased negative camber the top mount is farther from the knuckle, the car will be lower.

I'll await your diagram for the rear, but i'm fairly certain that changing from -4, to 0 isn't going to lower the car...of course i could easily be wrong, and i am very curious to learn how it does affect it, because it is a bunch of confusing geometry.

[pacotaco345]

and what i'm drawing might also help out with those guys worrying about geometry...looks like wheels offset affects that as well....damnit...arms are going to be drawn. anyone have a completely clear rear stock suspension, and one the is dumped. I know there is a dumped one in the suspension geometry thread....but can't remember if there was stock one. also same chassis would help. lol

AHA! Wheel offset affects a lot actually, with + and - offset the pivot point of the wheel will actually rise and fall with camber. The only true way to keep camber from affecting the height of the pivot point (not of the tire relative to the ground) is to have a true 0 offset wheel. Although the difference isn't very noticeable relative to the rise and fall of the actual tire, there is still a difference in the geometry.

[pacotaco345]

I read the entire thread, you have your own theory on the subject, but i'm just not tracking.

Naturally, when you lower a car the camber is going to decrease (more negative camber). When you compensate doing an alignment and put more camber back into it (moving closer to positive) it's not going to lower the car any further, if anything it will raise the ride height slightly.

In the front with increased negative camber the top mount is farther from the knuckle, the car will be lower.

I'll await your diagram for the rear, but i'm fairly certain that changing from -4, to 0 isn't going to lower the car, it will do the opposite
Take a tape measure, measure the length of your tire/wheel combination from the bottom left to the top right, then measure the length from the bottom to the top, along the centerline of the wheel. The diagonal path will be greater, it follows the formula a^2+b^2=c^2. Thus by rotating the tire onto its edge (adding camber from true 0) it will become taller and raise your car, regardless of whether it is the front or the back.

[Touge_Monster]

Im still trying to decide why it takes balls to go low on a car you dont dd or track all the time

[wh0aitznic0]

^There's the chance of busting your oil pan, your tow hook catching the lip of asphalt on road construction, your shiny new exhaust gets fucked up, etc etc. All those can happen anytime you drive the car.

[toneeezy]

^There's the chance of busting your oil pan, your tow hook catching the lip of asphalt on road construction, your shiny new exhaust gets fucked up, etc etc. All those can happen anytime you drive the car.

thug life.

[rat240]

Im still trying to decide why it takes balls to go low on a car you dont dd or track all the time

cause it's the cool thing do and he needs the attention

[ManoNegra]

http://erbsegoesmmo.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/full_retard.jpg

[fckillerbee]

AHA! Wheel offset affects a lot actually, with + and - offset the pivot point of the wheel will actually rise and fall with camber. The only true way to keep camber from affecting the height of the pivot point (not of the tire relative to the ground) is to have a true 0 offset wheel. Although the difference isn't very noticeable relative to the rise and fall of the actual tire, there is still a difference in the geometry.


it does......:duh::Owned::barfkiss:

[fckillerbee]

still drawing it.

[icedsole]

man yall goin in hard

[GripTerror]

You're not zilvia low unless you're ripping into the ground with your frame rail teeth.

[enigmadsm]

Take a tape measure, measure the length of your tire/wheel combination from the bottom left to the top right, then measure the length from the bottom to the top, along the centerline of the wheel. The diagonal path will be greater, it follows the formula a^2+b^2=c^2. Thus by rotating the tire onto its edge (adding camber from true 0) it will become taller and raise your car, regardless of whether it is the front or the back.

okay that makes sense, i didn't plug any numbers in the equation, but just from the tire, is it going to make a noticeable difference visually? (ie 1+")

[pacotaco345]

still drawing it.

Hurry up! lol I would like to try and wrap my mind around this whole thing. I'm actually a visual learner but I just suck at drawing haha

[pacotaco345]

okay that makes sense, i didn't plug any numbers in the equation, but just from the tire, is it going to make a noticeable difference visually? (ie 1+")

It depends on how much camber you're running, when I went from stock arms (5 degrees of - camber) to adjustable rucas and set it at 0 my car lowered about 3/4 of an inch, but it actually looked higher up because I wasn't tucking as much tire. Now that I've got everything sorted out I'm at 0 camber tucking about the same amount of tire as before and I'm about 2 inches lower in the back.. So yes it does make a noticeable difference. Depending on the offset, wheel width, and tire width, it will make a difference on how much camber actually raises and lowers the car.

[Zero-Offset]

You talking about for the rear? I'm looking for a nic0-like ride height too and I'm about to order Fortunes.

BTW, Swifts are $159 a pair + shipping, and washers if you want them.

Swift coilover springs - SPL PARTS (http://splparts.com/store/product-info.php?pid127.html)

while on the topic of lowness, i just wanted to ad my 2 cents.
i have fortunes, all 3 front collars removed, 0 preload, and my car on 17's still struggles to tuck tire. Running 215/45/17's +20 offset on the rims and there is still about a 2 finger gap between fender and tire.
Just thought you might want to consider this if you do buy then and are wanting to go 'hella' low. Shorter swift springs/flipping the bottom bracket might be necessary for you.
im going to flip the bracket in the next week and see where that gets me. oh, and lower the rear a good 2 inches while im at it.

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs451.ash2/72486_445366032605_511532605_5819655_6446286_n.jpg


http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=445367262605&set=a.445365967605.241262.511532605http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=445367262605&set=a.445365967605.241262.511532605http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs004.ash2/33586_445367262605_511532605_5819661_4313371_n.jpg

ill have to get a better picture, but there is at least 2 fingers gap on the drivers side here :rimshot:

[murda-c]

while on the topic of lowness, i just wanted to ad my 2 cents.
i have fortunes, all 3 front collars removed, 0 preload, and my car on 17's still struggles to tuck tire. Running 215/45/17's +20 offset on the rims and therehttp://zilvia.net/f/search.php?do=getnew is still about a 2 finger gap between fender and tire.
Just thought you might want to consider this if you do buy then and are wanting to go 'hella' low. Shorter swift springs/flipping the bottom bracket might be necessary for you.
im going to flip the bracket in the next week and see where that gets me. oh, and lower the rear a good 2 inches while im at it.


ill have to get a better picture, but there is at least 2 fingers gap on the drivers side here :rimshot:



that's weird, i'm using fortunes as well and i'm tucking about an inch of tire with another 1.5 inches to go on the coils, with no collars removed.

must be because i have an s14?

[Z_Spool]

while on the topic of lowness, i just wanted to ad my 2 cents.
i have fortunes, all 3 front collars removed, 0 preload, and my car on 17's still struggles to tuck tire. Running 215/45/17's +20 offset on the rims and there is still about a 2 finger gap between fender and tire.
Just thought you might want to consider this if you do buy then and are wanting to go 'hella' low. Shorter swift springs/flipping the bottom bracket might be necessary for you.
im going to flip the bracket in the next week and see where that gets me. oh, and lower the rear a good 2 inches while im at it.

Hmmm.... I seem to have found your problem. :p In all seriousness though, please post up where you get after flipping your brackets and whatnot. I'm interested to see what you can get out of them.

Total side note however, I don't know what it is, but I've seen your first pic before and there's something about your car that's just so tasty. Maybe it's cause it 'should' be 2-tone but isn't.

[Schassis707]

while on the topic of lowness, i just wanted to ad my 2 cents.
i have fortunes, all 3 front collars removed, 0 preload, and my car on 17's still struggles to tuck tire. Running 215/45/17's +20 offset on the rims and there is still about a 2 finger gap between fender and tire.
Just thought you might want to consider this if you do buy then and are wanting to go 'hella' low. Shorter swift springs/flipping the bottom bracket might be necessary for you.
im going to flip the bracket in the next week and see where that gets me. oh, and lower the rear a good 2 inches while im at it.

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs451.ash2/72486_445366032605_511532605_5819655_6446286_n.jpg


http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=445367262605&set=a.445365967605.241262.511532605http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=445367262605&set=a.445365967605.241262.511532605http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs004.ash2/33586_445367262605_511532605_5819661_4313371_n.jpg

ill have to get a better picture, but there is at least 2 fingers gap on the drivers side here :rimshot:

Clean coupe but dayyum, my car is at that height right now and i can still lower the coils more! tein flex. I say if u want low stay with 15/16 inch rims than.

[Zero-Offset]

haha thanks guys. no where near some of the other cars on here, but i like to keep it simple. low and oem is what i like.
i was just surprised that these didn't slam the car as much as i thought. right now i have about 4 fingers between front crossmember and the ground. but i think i can go much lower :o
front bracket flipping is in order!

and to the op, how much lower do you really want to go? if it were my car id just grab those $160 swift springs and take a BFH to the subframe.

one of my favorite pictures as is
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w95/wh0aitznic0/utf-8BSU1HMDAwMzAtMjAxMDA4MjYtMTgzNC5qcGc.jpg

[95KA-Turbo]

I cut about 3/4 of an inch off my front coilover brackets on my Fortunes so I wouldn't have to dremel out the 'top' bolt like I would if I flipped the bracket. I plan on getting some 7" swift springs down the road, that way it will not be an issue and it'll let me go another inch lower - as if that would even be possible to drive with.

Right now I am tucking almost half of the sidewall on my 235/40/17 up front.

[mothon]

My s13 on fortunes. Front bracket flipped lots of room to go lower. Rears are maxed low, bottom bracket screwed as far up as it will go and spring drooped 1/4 of an inch or so maybe less. 35 series tires up front, 215/40 in the rear with -1.5 camber.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2765/4538397679_a60bc92acd_b.jpg

[PoorMans180SX]

Boss, what length springs? 17/18?

[Z_Spool]

My s13 on fortunes. Front bracket flipped lots of room to go lower. Rears are maxed low, bottom bracket screwed as far up as it will go and spring drooped 1/4 of an inch or so maybe less. 35 series tires up front, 215/40 in the rear with -1.5 camber.

I came.

Clean little coupe, any particular reason you haven't dropped the front more if you have the room? I think it'd be a million times better if the front wheel clearance were more like the rear. Is it just a driveability issue?

[Ham Sandwich]

I came.

Clean little coupe, any particular reason you haven't dropped the front more if you have the room? I think it'd be a million times better if the front wheel clearance were more like the rear. Is it just a driveability issue?

Why? It's level. I wouldn't want to drive a car any lower than that every day anyway. Some of you guys just go fucking overboard with this shit.

[Z_Spool]

Why? It's level. I wouldn't want to drive a car any lower than that every day anyway. Some of you guys just go fucking overboard with this shit.

it's not overboard... it's just more extreme than you want, and that's fine. Your priorities are in a different place than mine. I grew up around stupid low cars and trucks so it's not unusual or impractical to me to have a car that simply can't go some places... that's why I have a bone stock CR-V that can. :)

[PoorMans180SX]

I'm pretty sure if he was any lower his crossmember would constantly be scraping the ground.

[Zero-Offset]

I'm pretty sure if he was any lower his crossmember would constantly be scraping the ground.

word.
but aren't crossmembers a dime a dozen?
:P

i think it looks great as is.
only gripe id have is the exhaust. if it stuck out a wee bit more/blastpipe-ish.
but thats just picking that nit. :w00t:

[[email protected]]

I came.

Clean little coupe, any particular reason you haven't dropped the front more if you have the room? I think it'd be a million times better if the front wheel clearance were more like the rear. Is it just a driveability issue?


i think its a bit of a drift-ability issue. Stock metal only has so much give, at full lock under full suspension compression.

i think his ride height is spot on.

[nathanong87]

Clean little coupe, any particular reason you haven't dropped the front more if you have the room? I think it'd be a million times better if the front wheel clearance were more like the rear. Is it just a driveability issue?

just judging by the profile shots of s-chassis, the fenders are not cut at the same height. meaning the front fenders are "higher'. so if u were to have a square wheel setup meaning , same camber, same spec wheel, same tires, the front fender will still be higher

[SoSideways]

Unless you have rake.

Same spec wheels, same camber, same tires, that will be a pretty bad rake.

The front fender arches are about an inch taller than the rear.

[axiomatik]

Total side note however, I don't know what it is, but I've seen your first pic before and there's something about your car that's just so tasty. Maybe it's cause it 'should' be 2-tone but isn't.

Clean coupe but dayyum, my car is at that height right now and i can still lower the coils more! tein flex. I say if u want low stay with 15/16 inch rims than.

fyi, he has one of the ultra rare seafoam hatches. only available one year.