Weight obsession - part weights on S13

[Def]

I made the mistake of throwing my car on a local set of scales, and now I'm weight obsessed again. It came out to 2550 lbs with a half tank of gas, 1.75x0.095" roll bar, no interior from rear seats back, but full stock interior from there forward. No sound deadening. Bumper beams frt and rear, SR with no AC, lots of chassis bracing. Cheap fiberglass hood is the only thing to save weight, but I imagine my splitter/wing offsets that. Weight balance was 53.7/47.3 frt and rear.

So I've got some ideas of ways to lose weight, but I'd like to at least get an idea of the magnitude of weight loss possible. I cannot find reliable weights for these components, so if any S chassis gurus that really know the car inside and out(like Russ) would chime in with at least a ballpark, I'd appreciate it.

Components(all S13 hatch):

-HVAC blower motor(looks heavy, never taken it out)

-HVAC control flap/heater core box(I'd like to keep my heat, but if I can simplify the flaps with some cables I'd look into it to save some weight)

-hatch rear glass

-rear quarter windows

-rear bumper bar(stock)

[WISH ONE]

my s13 coupe weighed in at 2574, a tad under a half tank, full interior, SR, no ac, all bumpers, 23lbs a piece wheels, stock exhaust,
Still debating putting my car on a diet. I dont want to become annorexic.
I would be nice to know the weight of all the hvac components though.

[nightwalker]

Some other weight loss options are...

-light weight battery (about 8-10lbs lighter)
-race seats (14-15lbs lighter)
-carbon trunk/hatch (15-20lbs lighter)
-coilovers (8-10lbs lighter)

[Matej]

Purchase lightweight drivetrain componets. Lightening anything that spins will make the most difference out of any weight reduction.

[racepar1]

Components(all S13 hatch):

-HVAC blower motor(looks heavy, never taken it out)

-HVAC control flap/heater core box(I'd like to keep my heat, but if I can simplify the flaps with some cables I'd look into it to save some weight)

The hvac components are not that heavy, maybe 20lbs for the whole assembly. It's not worth your time to screw with unless you're building a trailered track car and can just take it completely out...

-hatch rear glass

The hatch rear glass and the hatch assembly itself weigh a metric shit ton. This is definitely worth your time and effort...

-rear quarter windows

The rear 1/4 windows are surprisingly light, leave them be...

-rear bumper bar(stock)

This also weighs a crapton. I went nuts with a plasma cutter on my old fastback one and I swear when I was done the entire bumper assembly weighed as much as the support alone used to...

[TheRealSy90]

Mine was 2400 without me in it. It's fully gutted with only the heater core stuff left.

[projectRDM]

The rear bumper reinforcement is seriously heavy on the S13, this is due to the fuel tank being so easily accessible in a rear end collision. They want the extra protection. Shame is most cars that get hit tweak the quarters since it's so solid.

Hatch, also quite heavy, a CF/FG one with Lexan/acrylic window weighs less than half.

The heater core and box is light, so is the blower motor and box. Since you don't have A/C you can pull the evaporator core, remove the unit, then put the empty box back in, that only saves maybe 4-5lbs but you can get $10-15 for it at the metal recycler.

There's nothing majorly heavy that's easily removed after that unless you start cutting sheetmetal.

My S14 got down to 2640 I think, I had plans to go lighter and really make it undriveable but sold it.

[fckillerbee]

Mine was 2400 without me in it. It's fully gutted with only the heater core stuff left.

oh so you don't have a cage in there either?

[fckillerbee]

exhaust? aluminum?

extra light weight wheels (could save you as much as 50-100lbs depending on what you have now and what you want.

turn glass into lexan

....you can always start cutting away the chassis turning it into a tube chassis...thats gonna be work..but a lot of weight. All depends on har far you want to take it.

[fckillerbee]

i'm sure there are 240's sub 2,000lbs....it just depends on how much you want to lose...some guys don't have an ass under their shell....

and would you consider going this far?

http://ll.speedhunters.com/u/f/eagames/NFS/speedhunters.com/Images/Rod%20Chong/retrospective/IMSA%20Nissans/24682345.sTqEGUvd.jpg

[klits562]

If you have power windows you could switch to manual. Same for the seat belts, only thing is i dont know how heavy all the components are so idk if its even worth the time, just a thought.

Also what someone mentioned above by reducing weight on anything that spins, flywheel, driveshaft, wheels.

I would definetly start with the hatch and rear bumper support.

Anything you can remove easily no matter the weight, will add up in the long run so keep that in mind too.

[Sileighty_85]

if your a baller

S13 Seibon OEM Style Carbon Fiber Doors [ DD8994NS240 ] - Enjuku Racing - Performance Parts and High Quality Fabrication (http://www.enjukuracing.com/seibon-style-carbon-fiber-doors-p-7458.html)

[s14freak93901]

or origin doors. made from FPR for about half the price of carbon doors.

[Matej]

http://www.matejblahut.com/gallery/d/1289-1/boyracer01.jpg
http://www.matejblahut.com/gallery/d/1295-1/boyracer03.jpg

[fckillerbee]

^^^^ i was looking for those pics...but was too lazy to really search. there is a thread on here...lightest 240's...or some shit.

[locoluna825]

i just converted my manual doors to auto ones. To my surprice They werent that much heavier than the manual ones... But it would still help to just use manual windows. Is it legal to run a lexan front windshield?

[Corbic]

i just converted my manual doors to auto ones. To my surprice They werent that much heavier than the manual ones... But it would still help to just use manual windows. Is it legal to run a lexan front windshield?

Track or Street?

You'll need at least a support bar for either. It will be scratched to hell in a week and is a stupid idea over all.

People are to eager to sacrofice what little safety their cars have to save a few pounds which in most cases will make no performance improvement. Rather, the car just becomes less "drivable" and everyone thinks that makes it more "Raw" or "performance" oriented.

Sound-deadening removal is a great example, in some cases we are talking about 10-15lbs... and now the car is super noisy/tinny sounding.

[Godchsr]

Tubed front end ftw... Not that expensive to have done professionally.

Nose weight loss equals more applied torque by allowing the front end to lift more easily.

[Def]

My car is not my DD, I don't care if it's a little more uncomfortable on the street at this point since I have solid EVERYTHING. The diff noise is the loudest thing in the car on the track to give an idea of how "not comfy" it is. I have no sunroof, manual doors.

The AC evap is out, it weighed ~6.5 lbs. The front bumper support I built was right around 6.5-7 lbs for the whole thing made out of aluminum. A little heavy, and I could probably make it again and get it down to about 4-5 lbs, but oh well, it's strong as hell(and held together with titanium bolts - budget baller style).

Is the rear hatch all that heavy? I currently have my wing mounted on there, and I even used about 1-1.5 lbs of aluminum stock to really strength the deck lid(it was flexing quite a bit. A FRP hatch would probably not stand up to the wing without SIGNIFICANT strengthening, and at that point, probably not too much lighter than stock. I can see a few lbs there, but I'd rather not be dropping hundreds of bucks for a few lbs at this point(I'd get an aluminum driveshaft if that was the case).

So anybody know how much the rear hatch glass weighs? Trying to get an idea of weight savings.

I'll keep the heater/HVAC stuff if it doesn't weigh too much, as it is nice having heat and defrost.

I'm not really going to cut away huge parts of the car to start saving 10 or 15 lbs. I drive the car to the track, need storage for that, and don't need to get completely crazy.

Not going to spend the money on CF/FPR doors either - at that point I'll just gut the stock doors(which I'm going to do slightly, not sure how much weight there is to be lost and keep at least some side protection).

My realistic goal is to get the car down to 2450 lbs with a ~10-15 lb heavier cool shirt setup than I have(currently 12-14 lbs, not enough ice capacity when it's 100 deg F out here).



This is what the car is like currently on street tires:

YouTube - 100 1011mp4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCcB54cT63Q)

[KiLLeR2001]

Could I go through the truck weigh stations with my car to see the weight? Or would I get in trouble for doing so?

Also, a '94 Honda Accord crashed into the back of my car at a low speed and all it did was bend my exhaust a little bit, his entire front end was squished like an accordion thanks to the rear bumper support, I'd keep it on. :)

[Def]

Pic of the car this past weekend:

http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/3319/msroct2010pics.jpg

[drift213]

cf doors :D OEM doors weight a sH!t load but if you crash your ass is gone

[singlecamslam]

I hate when people take out their plastic interior and NOTHING else and say "its a drift car, needs to be light" those plastics weight less than 2 pounds and make your car look good inside. My Coupe weighed in at around 2500 or so, full interior minus the sound tar. Everything else stock with sr20.

[racepar1]

Is the rear hatch all that heavy? I currently have my wing mounted on there, and I even used about 1-1.5 lbs of aluminum stock to really strength the deck lid(it was flexing quite a bit. A FRP hatch would probably not stand up to the wing without SIGNIFICANT strengthening, and at that point, probably not too much lighter than stock. I can see a few lbs there, but I'd rather not be dropping hundreds of bucks for a few lbs at this point(I'd get an aluminum driveshaft if that was the case).

A stock hatch, w/glass, w/o a wing, and w/o a wiper weighs in at 53.6 lbs according to the shipping scale across the street. I left it over there right now after weighing it because it was too damn heavy to carry back across the street by myself again. With a fiberglass hatch/lexan window you could probably cut that weight almost in half. Now on a coupe it's a different story. Coupe trunks are not very heavy...

Stiffening up the hatch with some foam or honeycomb for your wing should only add a couple pounds. You'll probably still end up dropping 20lbs off the hatch/glass even if you go nuts re-enforcing it...

Not going to spend the money on CF/FPR doors either - at that point I'll just gut the stock doors(which I'm going to do slightly, not sure how much weight there is to be lost and keep at least some side protection).

There isn't really anything to remove from the doors unless you just want to completely hollow them out. I spent an hour staring at mine with the panels off trying to figure out where I could trim it off without hurting the door too much structurally. It's not worth it... Doors are heavy as hell though, probably about 60lbs each maybe even a little more. But the "fiberglass doors" thing goes back to the "trailered track car" thing. Not too realistic on a "street" car.

[Def]

I don't drive it much on the street, so I'm not too worried from that perspective. Besides, the height of 90% of the door impact beam is well below most car's bumpers now. I was staring at them now, and even my bumper is right around the bottom of them, so unless it's trying to stop a slammed Civic, I don't think they're going to do much. The average truck is well over the height of that bar. So I think I'm going to trim that up and weld in a piece of DOM tubing, or maybe aluminum stock bolted to the door. Should provide roughly the same level of protection at a much lower weight than the stupid stock stamped chunk of metal(that's too far down in the door).

I've even heard the JDM S13s have no impact beams in the doors, and I also have a roll bar right behind the seat that offers a bit more protection than a piece of stamped metal in the door.

You're right that other than the beam, there isn't too much weight worth losing in the doors. Maybe a few lbs here or there.


I'll look into the fiberglass hatch, but I just can't see the metal of the hatch being that heavy. Maybe I'm wrong, but it all looks fairly thin gauge. I'm thinking a lexan rear hatch window I make myself will get me most of the weight savings I'm really going to get back there, at a small fraction of the cost of a FRP hatch + lexan.

[Def]

I hate when people take out their plastic interior and NOTHING else and say "its a drift car, needs to be light" those plastics weight less than 2 pounds and make your car look good inside. My Coupe weighed in at around 2500 or so, full interior minus the sound tar. Everything else stock with sr20.

That stuff adds up. I thought it didn't matter that much until I put all that crap in a big box and weighed it. I think all the interior from the rear seats back was ~70-80 lbs. 4 lbs here, 6 lbs there - it all adds up when you take a lot of it out.


When comparing my weight to yours, don't forget mine has stuff that makes it work better as a track car like bigger brakes, an oil cooler, cool shirt setup, 50+ lb roll bar, big ass wing and splitter etc. Take all that out and I know I'm in the low-mid 2400's, and my car looks fairly "stock" on the inside.

[singlecamslam]

I meant just the plastics, the A-pillar, c-pillar, i honestly dont have anything in the trunk, no spare, no carpet no jack. But i keep all the plastics there because it makes the inside look good and not have a naked car. My car now is probably heavier due to big braks, rb25, massive fans and radiator, welded all my control arms... etc. I'm sorry i'm just really anal about the interior of my car... I like it complete. Also no rear seat, put a little carpet over it. BAM.
I think the best look there is, is a full cage with FULL interior. My opinion thouhg..


something like this
http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w159/BrianHarte/cage04.jpg

[godrifttoday]

Put your wilwood brake kit... Hehe...

[kognition]

I have a bare S14 chassis in my shop with roof cut, subframes removed and all suspension/ fuel tank/ engine gone. I can lift the thing up with very little strain.
It's being used to make my undertray mold for the Kognition track car. Which is pushing 2,100 lbs itself right now. Don't screw with the chassis as far as removing sections of it. It is worth more if you stitch weld it. But focus on roof (70lbs if removed), doors, replace glass all around with lexan. Replace any iron knuckles for aluminum. 2,000 lb's is crazy light. But don't sacrifice strength/stiffness for weight reduction. Most of the team time attack cars dominating right now in the states are about 2,500 lb's. The carbon roof replacement was the single most significant move i did to my car. You can easily fab up aluminum tube doorframes, and bolt up carbon/kevlar doorskins. I have molds for those. But i was like you, wanting to make it as light as possible. That was until i actually stripped this new shell down to nothing, and can pick it up like a sardine can. No, better to stitch weld it. If you cut out the back, from behind the rear shock towers like some have posted... you might be saving 20 lb's of metal. But not worth it to me. Better to have more downforce and a more rigid chassis.

[fckillerbee]

100 lbs is 9 horsepower...i'm sure all of us have heard this....and it all adds up.

so instead of removing shit....add power! haha.

[kognition]

Agreed,
It is far far easier to add horsepower with all of the options available to us than waste time cutting away at an allready very lightweight chassis shell. I have learned from real world experience that you can effectively control horsepower with a good downforce setup.

100 lbs is 9 horsepower...i'm sure all of us have heard this....and it all adds up.

so instead of removing shit....add power! haha.

[SoSideways]

Well, lightweight benefits the car in braking and handling as well, and given a set of tires in one size, the lightweight car will be able to use that tire better than the heavier car with more power.

But I also agree that there comes a point when there's diminishing returns when you do something like lightening up the car and stuff.

[Corbic]

100 lbs is 9 horsepower...i'm sure all of us have heard this....and it all adds up.

so instead of removing shit....add power! haha.

Hence why HR 350Zs spank AP2 S2000 ass all day long both on and off the track.

[Def]

I don't think there are diminishing returns at all, in fact, the returns INCREASE as you keep shedding weight. 30 lbs off a 3500 lb car? Not a big change, only 0.85% less weight. You would probably be hard pressed to really feel that. Now 30 lbs off a 2500 lb car, that's 1.2% less weight. 2000 lb car? 1.5% less weight. So it starts to become more and more apparent for each pound you lose as your car gets lighter.


I'd rather spend money on track time and tires at this point than buy other stuff, so I'm going to see how far I can really go with the stock panels while not making the car significantly less safe in any one type of impact.


Looks like lexan rear hatch window, remove as much weight as possible to the doors while keeping some crash protection, and then attack the rear bumper support.

[racepar1]

I have a bare S14 chassis in my shop with roof cut, subframes removed and all suspension/ fuel tank/ engine gone. I can lift the thing up with very little strain.

On this note, 5 guys can easily carry a bare fastback chasis with a cage and quarter windows in it. When I got rid of my fastback we picked the shell up off the jackstands with 2 guys on the front and 3 on the back and carried it to the trailer. Eric Castro's got it now...

[Corbic]

100 lbs is 9 horsepower...i'm sure all of us have heard this....and it all adds up.

so instead of removing shit....add power! haha.


I'd rather spend money on track time and tires at this point than buy other stuff, so I'm going to see how far I can really go with the stock panels while not making the car significantly less safe in any one type of impact.


Looks like lexan rear hatch window, remove as much weight as possible to the doors while keeping some crash protection, and then attack the rear bumper support.


But you are agreeing with him.

What will make a bigger difference, saving 170lbs by getting a FRP Hood, Fenders, Hatch, doors and gutting the interior.. For ~$2000....

Or upgrading your turbo/powertrain and go from 200whp to 400whp, or maybe just 300whp and some bigger brakes?

What will do better a stripped car, or a car with cage and bracing (adding weight) but all else equal.

Also, the diminished returns are lik FRP fender, cost? Over $300, easier to damage, and you shed maybe 5-10lbs. ~1hp gain.

If I said I just spend $300 on an airfilter to gain 1hp everyone would laugh.

[SoSideways]

Def, your points back up my points exactly.

There comes a point when you're spending ridiculous amount of either money, effort, or both, just to save very little weight, or to make that last 10hp, either of which won't make any real difference in the grand scheme of things, except for you to be able to say you did it.

While I agree, technically, there is no diminishing in returns when you're talking about saving weight, but there certainly is a diminishing in returns for the path to get there.

[racepar1]

Let's stop this "more power vs less weight" crap. Reducing weight makes the car accelerate, stop and handle better. It improves the car in every possible way. More power only makes the car accelerate better and it can make the car HARDER to stop and turn. Reducing weight also takes strain off the entire drivetrain and chasis, which increases reliability. More power does exactly the opposite. Besides all that a more powerful engine usually comes with a shorter lifespan and less reliability again. Horsepower is great and all, but reducing weight serves a completely different purpose. The two cannot be compared as their performance benefits are only similar in one aspect.

[godrifttoday]

Why not redo all your wiring I know it's like 50 ponds, get it down Into 10 pounds, u can also Lose weight

[josephin510]

Let's stop this "more power vs less weight" crap. Reducing weight makes the car accelerate, stop and handle better. It improves the car in every possible way. More power only makes the car accelerate better and it can make the car HARDER to stop and turn. Reducing weight also takes strain off the entire drivetrain and chasis, which increases reliability. More power does exactly the opposite. Besides all that a more powerful engine usually comes with a shorter lifespan and less reliability again. Horsepower is great and all, but reducing weight serves a completely different purpose. The two cannot be compared as their performance benefits are only similar in one aspect.

Just as I was getting confused you posted this.

[GripTerror]

Let's stop this "more power vs less weight" crap. Reducing weight makes the car accelerate, stop and handle better. It improves the car in every possible way. More power only makes the car accelerate better and it can make the car HARDER to stop and turn. Reducing weight also takes strain off the entire drivetrain and chasis, which increases reliability. More power does exactly the opposite. Besides all that a more powerful engine usually comes with a shorter lifespan and less reliability again. Horsepower is great and all, but reducing weight serves a completely different purpose. The two cannot be compared as their performance benefits are only similar in one aspect.
This

Fuck racepar1... you and I share the same mind... from reading many of your posts over and over again haha...

Kognition also has a point but I must concur racepar1's points hold truer. I mean... alhtough it is not too hard to add power, the benefit of less weight although sometimes painstakingly ass paining are beneficial in a multitude of ways :) That is if you are serious of cutting every tenth of a second on lap times...

Oh and for people saying panels are only 1lbs or whatever... well... I went pretty hardcore on my car's diet and I easily took off 300lbs and that's on a car that had no AC... it's doable...

Remember he also has a cage, so that's added weight back.

I even went as far as cutting unecessary wires from the wiring loom (speaker lines, etc...) and only left what's necessary. Got rid of all the under dash crap (heating, cooling, etc...), so yeah... if you want a hardcore track car go the mile... my opinion... and add downforce and im sure kognition can help lol.

Trust me.. the more weight I lose the more pronounced it feels on the car over time.. it just does.. and it makes the car that much more fun to me.

[Corbic]

But after all that work, how much did your track times really improve? Or does it just "feel faster" and "more responsive" because of all the extra road noice and drive train vibration?

350z HR weight 3,339#, HP 306hp, 268 FT/TQ

AP2 S2000 weight 2,765#, HP 237hp, 162 FT/TQ


Despite having lighting fast reflexs and a feather light chassis the S2K is sorely beaten by the 350Zs power and stiffer chassis in several comparisons, (I'll post YouTube vid latter).

[Corbic]

This
Trust me.. the more weight I lose the more pronounced it feels on the car over time.. it just does.. and it makes the car that much more fun to me.

Feelings are for girls, facts are for men.

Is it "that much faster" or just "that much noisier"?

[SoSideways]

Feelings are for girls, facts are for men.

Oh no you didn't.

Watch out man, he works out, and makes fun of people who have powersteering because he can turn his 330mm steering wheel with just 2 fingers.

[Corbic]

Oh no you didn't.

Watch out man, he works out, and makes fun of people who have powersteering because he can turn his 330mm steering wheel with just 2 fingers.

I hear he has a terrifying grip.

[xpertsnowcarver]

I'm in at 2280 without me in it. About 5/8 tank of fuel. :)

The car is pure fun. XD Don't really car about power, I just want my fun. :p

[DJPimpFlex]

I'm in at 2280 without me in it. About 5/8 tank of fuel. :)

The car is pure fun. XD Don't really car about power, I just want my fun. :p

Have you ever driven a car with power? I just did my first full track with 280wheel and its the best thing since sliced bread.

[Def]

But you are agreeing with him.

What will make a bigger difference, saving 170lbs by getting a FRP Hood, Fenders, Hatch, doors and gutting the interior.. For ~$2000....

Or upgrading your turbo/powertrain and go from 200whp to 400whp, or maybe just 300whp and some bigger brakes?

What will do better a stripped car, or a car with cage and bracing (adding weight) but all else equal.

Also, the diminished returns are lik FRP fender, cost? Over $300, easier to damage, and you shed maybe 5-10lbs. ~1hp gain.

If I said I just spend $300 on an airfilter to gain 1hp everyone would laugh.

I'm probably in the low 300's on track at low boost(14ish psi on a GT2871R, cams, intake mani, ported stuff etc.). I could turn the boost up, but I have my doubts as to how long the stock engine will last, so I'm keeping it reasonable for now.

More power is a turn of the knob away, but it's not really needed since the street tires hold the car back more than power at this point.

Like I said again, I'm not interested in spending $$$$$ on some FRP panel to save 10 lbs at this point. There are other areas where I could save weight for very little $$$, so that's why I asked about the items I did.


I have racepar1's ideas on weight reduction, when you on the track, every pound off the car just makes everything easier on the car. You accelerate harder with the same power, brake faster for the same traction, corner harder - it just makes the car easier to get around the track, and it becomes even more pronounced when you add downforce(which I already have, check the earlier track pic).

[roboticnissan]

If vgetting the car down to a specific weight becomes to costly or just a pain in the ass, then that's your limit.

What it comes down to is how far YOU really wanna take it, or how seriously competitive you really wanna make your car. If you seriousy wanna win every race in your class then EVERY pound is going to count.

Hope this makes sense

[xpertsnowcarver]

Have you ever driven a car with power? I just did my first full track with 280wheel and its the best thing since sliced bread.

fASYtneB2zg

Yup. That's me in a 340whp 180sx. :p (No aero on this car.)

I can honestly say it's not as fun as my NA car. (No aero on this car either.)

Maybe if it had amazing down force (ahem... Kognition :p), it could be a bit more fun. I can't say much, nor could a lot of us.. Most of us do not have highly engineered aerodynamics on our cars. No doubt a high horsepower car with well engineered aerodynamics would be very fun.

I'm strictly talking about a realistic observation of the average individual owning a 240sx... Not many can afford to put a 300whp 240 together AND get some serious down force. So, its cheaper to cut down on weight. It benefits in all categories. By the time most of these people can afford to modify the car to get serious power and downforce, they probably move on to better things anyway.

Regardless, weight reduction is pretty critical. Maybe not so much for minimum weight cap regulations. Then, its critical for equal weight distribution, downforce, and power.

Ugh, I think I'm biting more than I care to chew right now. :p I withdraw from this. Mike knows what he's talking about anyway.

[reflexdb]

S14 chassis with S14 SR20. No power steering, no HVAC, no interior except for seats, dash, center console, door panels, harness bar, and bare minimum wire harness. With full fluids, it weighs in at 2370. Really, there isn't a whole lot more weight to pull out of it without getting Kognition-extreme.

And I agree with anyone that supports minimizing weight. Your car is going to handle better everywhere on the track if you shed some pounds. Of course, increasing engine output will make for quicker acceleration too (assuming you have enough grip to transmit the power to the road). There's a reason why power/weight ratio is one of the most important performance comparison factors.

[Corbic]

As promised
YouTube - Nissan 350Z 2007model VS. Honda S2000 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZyp8rfzazg)

350z best lap 1:07,63
S2K best lap 1:09,17

YouTube - The Ulitimate FR Challenge Z33 vs. S2000 - Hot Version International - 1/2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsW3nB70LkA)
YouTube - The Ulitimate FR Challenge Z33 vs. S2000 - Hot Version International 2/2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rBK5TS0bFY)

[Def]

That's not really that big of a surprise in stock form, as the S2000 understeers a bit in AP2 trim and is pretty slow compared to an HR Z33. That 1.5 s difference is almost completely up to power differences.

[Def]

^Just watched the videos. Of course a modded NA Z33 HR will make boatloads more power than an S2000. It looked like the S2000 handled a bit better from apex speeds, but the Z33 would just pull out from there.

[mattsil80wis]

I'm in at 2280 without me in it. About 5/8 tank of fuel. :)

The car is pure fun. XD Don't really car about power, I just want my fun. :p


info on what you lost to get down that low?

edit: if you dont want it on the board do you mind PMing me

[Jonnie Fraz]

I am waiting for Bill to jump in on this one...lol

[WangonwWarrior]

Z32 aluminum uprights weight 7-8 lbs. less and that is unsprung weight on the rear

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p260/positron32/IMG_1277.jpg

Im about to do mine. Only problem is you will have to use a fork type rear strut like the Z32 or you can weld on a different top piece

[kognition]

I hear what you guys are saying about removing as much as possible. From my experience, the lightest car does not win championships. The most well balanced and consistent car does. And i am just as passionate as the next guy about weight reduction. But unless i see you out there winning contingency money with it, it doesn't mean much. It is just one of many aspects. It isn't rocket science. Once you are happy with your chassis stiffness/weight, you move on to the other areas that need attention. When i started working with World Racing on the super light AWD car, we were all excited for the debut. I flew all the way to Sebring just to support the car. The car sat all weekend due to electrical gremlins. They put alot of work into weight reduction, and spent tens of thousands on hauling a fully staffed crew and rig out there. It is a half a million dollar car! Kognition has two championships allready in the bag with two sponsored time attack teams this season. They are not the lightest nor the most powerful cars in their class. And certainly not the most well funded. They are the most balanced, and consistent cars in their class.

[godrifttoday]

^
it could be also driver.

And DEF

Dammmmm u got major credibility !!! U post something and u get thousand of views to read your words!!! major pull....

[DJPimpFlex]

fASYtneB2zg

Yup. That's me in a 340whp 180sx. :p (No aero on this car.)

I can honestly say it's not as fun as my NA car. (No aero on this car either.)

Maybe if it had amazing down force (ahem... Kognition :p), it could be a bit more fun. I can't say much, nor could a lot of us.. Most of us do not have highly engineered aerodynamics on our cars. No doubt a high horsepower car with well engineered aerodynamics would be very fun.

I'm strictly talking about a realistic observation of the average individual owning a 240sx... Not many can afford to put a 300whp 240 together AND get some serious down force. So, its cheaper to cut down on weight. It benefits in all categories. By the time most of these people can afford to modify the car to get serious power and downforce, they probably move on to better things anyway.

Regardless, weight reduction is pretty critical. Maybe not so much for minimum weight cap regulations. Then, its critical for equal weight distribution, downforce, and power.

Ugh, I think I'm biting more than I care to chew right now. :p I withdraw from this. Mike knows what he's talking about anyway.

I suppose we are speaking a different language because I think your grip driving while I'm drifting. I've griped my car a few times and its, well, stressful, lol. Street tires and my suspension set up makes the car very oversteer prone so I end up going a bit slower than I could. I agree that a N/A car with low power is a lot of fun to grip, its just been awhile lol. I've been drifting only for a few years now.

Either way I try to reduce as much weight as I can. I alter the set up based on what I feel the car needs and run it. I'm by no means a great driver but I feel like my car is pretty well set up.

[Corbic]

^Just watched the videos. Of course a modded NA Z33 HR will make boatloads more power than an S2000. It looked like the S2000 handled a bit better from apex speeds, but the Z33 would just pull out from there.

The nodded cars in the second video are not HR cars.

And that is my point, the S2K weight and adgillity are out matched by the Zs power.

[SlideKing92]

Get the BN Style inverted hatch from chaser.... Im debating picking one of these up and seeing how much weight it will shave off, Just my 2 cents though

[Def]

^
it could be also driver.

And DEF

Dammmmm u got major credibility !!! U post something and u get thousand of views to read your words!!! major pull....

Yea, I've got the S chassis groupies... :tardrim: :ugh:

[codyace]

I hear what you guys are saying about removing as much as possible. From my experience, the lightest car does not win championships. The most well balanced and consistent car does. And i am just as passionate as the next guy about weight reduction. But unless i see you out there winning contingency money with it, it doesn't mean much.

I couldn't agree with you more. All to often people get caught up with weight, when the truth is that a reliable and consistant car is what really counts most. Certainly there are all things we can do to save weight that help out, and that are easily changed (wheels, carbon fiber panels, suspension parts) but beyond that, I (and I may sound very simple for admitting this) would much rather just play with the horsepower of the car, and the setup. Trust me, I'd love a super light car, but in the grand scheme of things, I'd rather try to make more HP and find more traction after a certain point.

As before I do not discredit the bantam weight obsession, I just think there is often to much emphasis put on it for street based cars.



^
Dammmmm u got major credibility !!! U post something and u get thousand of views to read your words!!! major pull....

That's because he's one of the few of us on here that actually knows what he's talking about/capable of working on his car. Once you seperate the wheat from the chaff on Zilvia, you'll soon realize who the real DIY guys are :D

[Corbic]

That's because he's one of the few of us on here that actually knows what he's talking about/capable of working on his car. Once you seperate the wheat from the chaff on Zilvia, you'll soon realize who the real DIY guys are :D

Wait, so are you a real "DIY Guy" if you need a DIY? :duh:

LOL

[e1_griego]

Can't you back to trolling TCL?

[Def]

I couldn't agree with you more. All to often people get caught up with weight, when the truth is that a reliable and consistant car is what really counts most. Certainly there are all things we can do to save weight that help out, and that are easily changed (wheels, carbon fiber panels, suspension parts) but beyond that, I (and I may sound very simple for admitting this) would much rather just play with the horsepower of the car, and the setup. Trust me, I'd love a super light car, but in the grand scheme of things, I'd rather try to make more HP and find more traction after a certain point.

As before I do not discredit the bantam weight obsession, I just think there is often to much emphasis put on it for street based cars.


I do agree that weight loss shouldn't be a major focus before the car is dialed in, but I feel like in my case, I've got the suspension pretty well DONE. It's all solid/rod end/spherical - good dampers - roll center is corrected somewhat - roll stiffness and balance is good. I just need less weight to hustle it around the track quicker. Plus it's R-comps all the time as soon as these NT-05s die(they're lasting a surprising amount of time as they wear down). I really haven't paid a huge amount of attention to dropping the pounds on the car up until now, and I feel like that's the next area to mess with the car.

If you were making a general observation of Zilvia, then yea, I'd say a lot of guys spend way too much time obsessing over weight when their car is just not well put together or setup. You'll gain way more time making sure everything works well together vs. taking off 50 lbs on your car and having it be setup like a nightmare.

Oh another note, went to a local shop and saw a Koni yellow piston vs. a Stance coilover piston. The stance piston was laughable. So was their adjuster mechanism.

[xpertsnowcarver]

I just need less weight to hustle it around the track quicker. Plus it's R-comps all the time as soon as these NT-05s die(they're lasting a surprising amount of time as they wear down). I really haven't paid a huge amount of attention to dropping the pounds on the car up until now, and I feel like that's the next area to mess with the car.

Do I get some credit for this epiphony of yours? :keke:

Seriously though... You daily that car don't you? There isn't much for you to do.

I have nothing under the dash except wires and an ecu, no stereo, no driver or pass windows, carpet, sound deadening, panels, super light wheels... I could go on but, this is no longer a car anyone should drive on the street.. If you're not using your car to get around anymore, then go for it. If you already took care of suspension and power, which I know you have, the only two things left for you are aero and weight reduction.

[josephin510]

Oh another note, went to a local shop and saw a Koni yellow piston vs. a Stance coilover piston. The stance piston was laughable. So was their adjuster mechanism.

What do you mean?

[Def]

Do I get some credit for this epiphony of yours? :keke:

Seriously though... You daily that car don't you? There isn't much for you to do.

I have nothing under the dash except wires and an ecu, no stereo, no driver or pass windows, carpet, sound deadening, panels, super light wheels... I could go on but, this is no longer a car anyone should drive on the street.. If you're not using your car to get around anymore, then go for it. If you already took care of suspension and power, which I know you have, the only two things left for you are aero and weight reduction.

haha - no, the epiphony came when I put the car on scales.

I do not daily the car, or even drive it on the street often. It probably gets less than 1-2k miles on the street over the course of a year, most of that going to and from track events.

Now as far as removing windows - I don't know if I want to go that far. My wheels aren't very light (A-Tech Weapons), but they're cheap. There's probably another 12-16 lbs to save there, but lots of $$$ for that weight savings.

I am taking out the stereo, couple of speakers that are left, and the door panels(they're right at 6 lbs each, kinda surprised at that).

[Def]

What do you mean?

What do you mean what do I mean? The Stance coilover was junk, and the adjuster was just some needle valve being moved in a bypass circuit. The "clicks" are just drilled holes under the adjuster with a ball detent, so more holes = "more clicks." Super performance oriented yo!

They also had a laughable shim stack, but it explains why their compression and rebound curves are almost completely linear.

[SoSideways]

Yeah I am definitely going to sell off these Stance coilovers as soon as I have a chance. Riding around like I'm bouncing on a pogo stick is not fun.

[Wookie384]

As promised
YouTube - Nissan 350Z 2007model VS. Honda S2000 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZyp8rfzazg)

350z best lap 1:07,63
S2K best lap 1:09,17

YouTube - The Ulitimate FR Challenge Z33 vs. S2000 - Hot Version International - 1/2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsW3nB70LkA)
YouTube - The Ulitimate FR Challenge Z33 vs. S2000 - Hot Version International 2/2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rBK5TS0bFY)

That's not really that big of a surprise in stock form, as the S2000 understeers a bit in AP2 trim and is pretty slow compared to an HR Z33. That 1.5 s difference is almost completely up to power differences.

^Just watched the videos. Of course a modded NA Z33 HR will make boatloads more power than an S2000. It looked like the S2000 handled a bit better from apex speeds, but the Z33 would just pull out from there.

The nodded cars in the second video are not HR cars.

And that is my point, the S2K weight and adgillity are out matched by the Zs power.

To be fair in the S2K's defense the one tested is a heavier model. You can see the S2K has navi/video screen, and if I'm not mistaken the VGS model as tested is useless and heavier. AP1's are known for being twitchy in the corners, but you can still get an AP2's rear end to break traction, and they talk about it in the video below, it also shows the S2K being slower but not by that much, they even agree the the S2K handles better because it's lighter perhaps? Which is what this topic is about light weight cars.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSPL6eepv-A

[codyace]

If you were making a general observation of Zilvia, then yea, I'd say a lot of guys spend way too much time obsessing over weight when their car is just not well put together or setup. You'll gain way more time making sure everything works well together vs. taking off 50 lbs on your car and having it be setup like a nightmare.

Yes my comment was certainly generic. I know you (and some of us) certainly have oru setups about as modified as they can or should be for a street based car (we have the same mods) so I can understand your particular focus of keeping it light. But as before, I just wanted to stress to the casual observer, that attention to the chassis setup is MUCH more important when startin gout, than keeping it light on it's feet.


Oh another note, went to a local shop and saw a Koni yellow piston vs. a Stance coilover piston. The stance piston was laughable. So was their adjuster mechanism.

I just got in a discussion today with an s2000 buddy of mine who swears up and down his JDM type coilovers are the best option. He didn't really grasp how my car has 'home made coilovers' yet handles so well. Oh the power of print (well the media)!

[godrifttoday]

Hey Cody wasn't there a link I think on Nissanroad racing about koni build and what parts u need? Maybe def should know?

[Corbic]

I just got in a discussion today with an s2000 buddy of mine who swears up and down his JDM type coilovers are the best option. He didn't really grasp how my car has 'home made coilovers' yet handles so well. Oh the power of print (well the media)!

Try the webforums.

[codyace]

Hey Cody wasn't there a link I think on Nissanroad racing about koni build and what parts u need? Maybe def should know?

Def and I have the same setup (obviously s13 and s14 respectivly). Check out Nissan Road Racing for the Koni 8611 group buy from Veilside (richard).

Also, search here for 'OptionZero' and his write up.

Try the webforums.

Huh?

I was just making a sarcastic comment about the common idiocy of forums.

[Corbic]

Huh?

I was just making a sarcastic comment about the common idiocy of forums.

I was agreeing. While advertisements may play a part in misconceptions, web forums do far more to propagate false facts and lies.

Good example of the coilovers was back in the day, it was all about TEIN, then Megan and Ksport came out and where gods, their out, Stance and PBM are in... but for how long?

[projectRDM]

My old S14 was never turbocharged, but it was damn quick. I miss it a lot sometimes thinking about how responsive it was. The power/weight arguments are dead on, the lighter weight does make a world of difference on the track. I went to Road Atlanta twice, exactly one year apart, and could tell a substantial difference in braking just with 200lbs extra removed the second time. The brakes lasted longer too, by session end I wasn't pumping for dear life like a year before. Better braking into a turn gives you more time to get back on the power out of it too, resulting in faster laps.

My problem came from lightening the rear of the car too much combined with stiffening the chassis so much. On track it was fine due to the longer, wider turns, but running in autocross where the turns are tighter and the speed is reduced, the car had tremendous oversteer. I couldn't keep it planted very well without going with wider, stickier tires. More power then would have been useless. There is definitely a balance to be had without just chopping the car to pieces and boosting it to death.

[slider2828]

Man, seriously you can't compare cars on the track.... Weight is weight period. It does make the car handle better in corners under breaking and under acceleration period. For comparing cars, that ebisu east course is a power course. Long corners and uphill are for power. If we were more on a flat track with less elevation change and more technical tracks would be an S2k track. Hence that is what the late Tanabe-san from Amuse said at the beginning, both cars have different characteristics therefore the track can make a huge difference.

Adequate power is important, but on our S chassis that is totally not balanced, suspension and rear downforce is the most important period. I do trackdays a lot and so does racepar and lot of other guys that spank porsches all day. But whatever, weight is an all around factor, HP means nothing. 20WHP difference vs 20lb loss, I'd take the 20lb loss especially in the front end of the S chassis. So we can't say a 100/30 whp/tq difference can be made up that easily, but a 20-30 whp can be with weight.

I will be at Laguna and another track this month, hopefully I get some video hahaha....

[SoSideways]

20lbs lost in the front is easy. Replacing the stock hood with an aftermarket FRP hood will get you there.

Lighter brakes like Def's new hotness will also help.

[Wookie384]

All this talk about lightweight S chassis got me thinking what my target weight should be for my NA SR'd hatch...

[codyace]

There is definitely a balance to be had without just chopping the car to pieces and boosting it to death.

This sums up my thoughts as well. There is undoubtedly a preferred combintation here. To much HP and no weight is just as bad as to much weight and no power. To me 350-400 whp turbo 2.0/2.4 in a 2300-2600 lb car is almost ideal for a street based S chassis car. That's C6 Z06 power to weight level. That's not to say that 450-500 whp in the same weight will be bad, but you need to put some serious rubber under it, and really change the driving style with a car.


All this talk about lightweight S chassis got me thinking what my target weight should be for my NA SR'd hatch...

When torque isn't readily available (persay in an N/A 2.0 engine) I'd vote for as light as you could get that platform.

[xpertsnowcarver]

20lbs lost in the front is easy. Replacing the stock hood with an aftermarket FRP hood will get you there.

Lighter brakes like Def's new hotness will also help.

Yes, they will. :)

All this talk about lightweight S chassis got me thinking what my target weight should be for my NA SR'd hatch...

2000lb (wet weight w/o driver) is easy to get to. I'm at 2280 right now, and I haven't messed with the front and rear windshields, hatch, fuel tank, front and rear bumpers, fenders.

[godrifttoday]

<object width="640" height="390"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/GCqznVv55ac&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&version=3"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/GCqznVv55ac&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&version=3" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="390"></embed></object>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCqznVv55ac&feature=player_embedded

[Wookie384]

When torque isn't readily available (persay in an N/A 2.0 engine) I'd vote for as light as you could get that platform.



2000lb (wet weight w/o driver) is easy to get to. I'm at 2280 right now, and I haven't messed with the front and rear windshields, hatch, fuel tank, front and rear bumpers, fenders.


Hmmm... Sounds like I, as well as the car, need to go on a diet, I weigh about 260~270 lol... I plan on gutting out the car, it's currently a SE model w/o sunroof (thank god!) which I plan on downgrading to a base model, luckily, I have a friend who has a base model and wants all my power accessories, so if/when we finally get around to doing the swap I can weigh all the parts and post that up. I do have a 4.36 final drive to help with the lack of power, and I don't plan on going lexan anytime soon but maybe in the distant future that would be a possibility.The car is currently a rolling shell and I plan on getting it running in stock trim so I can learn the characteristics of the car being that this is my first S chassis and first RWD car.

[codyace]

Hmmm... Sounds like I, as well as the car, need to go on a diet, I weigh about 260~270 lol... I plan on gutting out the car, it's currently a SE model w/o sunroof (thank god!) which I plan on downgrading to a base model, luckily, I have a friend who has a base model and wants all my power accessories, so if/when we finally get around to doing the swap I can weigh all the parts and post that up. I do have a 4.36 final drive to help with the lack of power, and I don't plan on going lexan anytime soon but maybe in the distant future that would be a possibility.The car is currently a rolling shell and I plan on getting it running in stock trim so I can learn the characteristics of the car being that this is my first S chassis and first RWD car.

With an N/A car, it may not be a bad idea to possibly even look into a 4.6 and then raise the rev's to the 8300-8500 range. That would be kinda fun.

Good friend of mine had a NX2000 that used to be a full on N/A car with a upgraded final drive and bolt ons(hotshot header, intake, JWT S5 cams, etc etc) and it was a blast to rocket it to north of 8000 rpm) He's since went VVL (which is even more fun as it isn't totally gutless) but man that thing loved the upper RPM

[SoSideways]

If it's VVL then he definitely should be around 8000-8500rpm all day.

If it has a DE bottom end, then forget it, 9000rpm all day.

[racepar1]

And that is my point, the S2K weight and adgillity are out matched by the Zs power.

Just because you found some internet video where the z-s are spanking the s2k's does not make it universally true. From my own personal experience running track events I can assure you that it is usually the opposite of what you are claiming that is true. Let's not forget that the "Street RWD" record at buttonwillow is held by the Evasive S2K, not any z chasis. Personally I would rather own the z then the s2k, but I cannot disrespect the little Honda's capabilities.

[slider2828]

^^ I think that was a full cf turbo s2k LOL.... Its a great car, but its a beef'ed up miata LOL..... maybe a little better than the miata....

[codyace]

If it's VVL then he definitely should be around 8000-8500rpm all day.

If it has a DE bottom end, then forget it, 9000rpm all day.

Well, VE's really die off hardcore on stock cams much north of the stock limit, but I can totally understand if upgraded valvetrain.

The NX initially went to 8200 IIRC with the DE and S5's. We never got a chance to really play with the rev limit on the dyno before he was sold on going vvl hehe.

WITH that said however, the VVL even with the same header and intake made better power all around and much more torque. As mucdh as I love a nice DE, the VVL is bar none the N/A 2.0 choice.

Just because you found some internet video where the z-s are spanking the s2k's does not make it universally true. From my own personal experience running track events I can assure you that it is usually the opposite of what you are claiming that is true. Let's not forget that the "Street RWD" record at buttonwillow is held by the Evasive S2K, not any z chasis. Personally I would rather own the z then the s2k, but I cannot disrespect the little Honda's capabilities.

I can totally agree to this, even with equal drivers. I too would take a Z before an S any day of the week, but when it comes to a HPDE type car, the S is 90% of the time the better car.

[kognition]

Agreed. My experience at the track with the 800 HP Doubledown Motorsports 350Z could still not come close to a 500 Hp tuned S2k like C West's. That car is just too heavy, has no airflow in the bay and always overheats, going into limp mode half the time. And still no championship titles that any Z can claim in time attack in the states.

Just because you found some internet video where the z-s are spanking the s2k's does not make it universally true. From my own personal experience running track events I can assure you that it is usually the opposite of what you are claiming that is true. Let's not forget that the "Street RWD" record at buttonwillow is held by the Evasive S2K, not any z chasis. Personally I would rather own the z then the s2k, but I cannot disrespect the little Honda's capabilities.

[slider2828]

Agreed. My experience at the track with the 800 HP Doubledown Motorsports 350Z could still not come close to a 500 Hp tuned S2k like C West's. That car is just too heavy, has no airflow in the bay and always overheats, going into limp mode half the time. And still no championship titles that any Z can claim in time attack in the states.

I wonder how the 2010 JGTC Z won the championship this year.... I think only 370's overheat stock LOL.... 350's just overheat after awhile LOL....

[josephin510]

What do you mean what do I mean? The Stance coilover was junk, and the adjuster was just some needle valve being moved in a bypass circuit. The "clicks" are just drilled holes under the adjuster with a ball detent, so more holes = "more clicks." Super performance oriented yo!

They also had a laughable shim stack, but it explains why their compression and rebound curves are almost completely linear.

I meant to say explain. I was a lil tired from a wild JUSTIN BIEBER concert I screamed my lungs out.:keke::ghey:

[Wookie384]

With an N/A car, it may not be a bad idea to possibly even look into a 4.6 and then raise the rev's to the 8300-8500 range. That would be kinda fun.

Good friend of mine had a NX2000 that used to be a full on N/A car with a upgraded final drive and bolt ons(hotshot header, intake, JWT S5 cams, etc etc) and it was a blast to rocket it to north of 8000 rpm) He's since went VVL (which is even more fun as it isn't totally gutless) but man that thing loved the upper RPM

I thought about the the 4.6 but to be honest I'm too broke to afford it, and I would really like to get the car running already. But I might look into it also in the future. Because N/A headers that fit a LHD S13 are pretty much impossible to find I'm actually looking for a header for a KA24DE so I can chop off the the KA flange and weld on the SR flange, supposedly that's the route N/A SR owners with LHD chassis go, But yeah, I will have some decent bolt-ons any maybe a tune hopefully.:2f2f:

If it's VVL then he definitely should be around 8000-8500rpm all day.

If it has a DE bottom end, then forget it, 9000rpm all day.

My motor is an S13 SR20DE which is believed to be out of a Silvia Q's model (No VVL:-/).


Back to the original topic of this thread... How about going Silvia front, isn't there a significance difference in weight since the pop up lights have all those parts as opposed to the fixed Silvia lights?

[SoSideways]

Back to the original topic of this thread... How about going Silvia front, isn't there a significance difference in weight since the pop up lights have all those parts as opposed to the fixed Silvia lights?

Silvia front isn't as aero dynamic as the pop up front.

All you have to do is take the motors out and the remaining front light assembly will be VERY LIGHT.

[Wookie384]

Silvia front isn't as aero dynamic as the pop up front.

All you have to do is take the motors out and the remaining front light assembly will be VERY LIGHT.

Hmmm... I've always thought the Silvia front was better in the aero dept. and maybe even yeild a better coefficent of drag, I guess I was wrong. I guess it would be smart to at the very least convert to Hella housings for the front end, those should considerably lighter than the glass housings, correct?

[SoSideways]

Hella housings ARE glass, from what I can remember.

They just have better light spread and a much better cut off, and allows you to run H4 light bulbs, so when a bulb goes out, you just replace the light bulb and not have to worry about getting another glass housing.

Plus, I think someone weighed the pop up light motors, and I think they said they were either 9lbs each side, or 9lbs total. I can't remember. I'll have to look it up.

[slider2828]

Silvia front ends aren't more aero dynamic, but it does allow more airflow into the IC if you remove the center grill.

[SoSideways]

I think he is thinking of the Silvia S13 aero front bumper, which does create a little more downforce and less drag than any of the 180sx front ends, because the bumper is flat and goes aaaaaaaaaaall the way back to the engine cross member or somewhere around there, thus promoting a little more aerodynamic efficiency.

However, Def's car has a full splitter in the front, so that pretty much negates the Silvia S13 aero front bumper being more aerodynamic than the 180sx front end notion there.

[GripTerror]

Feelings are for girls, facts are for men.

Is it "that much faster" or just "that much noisier"?
Real men don't complain about noise, they make noise.

I hear he has a terrifying grip.

You heard right :bigok:

Oh no you didn't.

Watch out man, he works out, and makes fun of people who have powersteering because he can turn his 330mm steering wheel with just 2 fingers.

^The nerd has spoken :ddog:

I like raw cars, stop hating, as russel peters china accent said "be a man" lol :)

[klits562]

Hella housings ARE glass, from what I can remember.

They just have better light spread and a much better cut off, and allows you to run H4 light bulbs, so when a bulb goes out, you just replace the light bulb and not have to worry about getting another glass housing.

Plus, I think someone weighed the pop up light motors, and I think they said they were either 9lbs each side, or 9lbs total. I can't remember. I'll have to look it up.

I just changed the motors for my popups on sunday, i didnt weight them but i can assure you that its 9lbs both, not each.

[racepar1]

I thought about the the 4.6 but to be honest I'm too broke to afford it, and I would really like to get the car running already. But I might look into it also in the future. Because N/A headers that fit a LHD S13 are pretty much impossible to find I'm actually looking for a header for a KA24DE so I can chop off the the KA flange and weld on the SR flange, supposedly that's the route N/A SR owners with LHD chassis go, But yeah, I will have some decent bolt-ons any maybe a tune hopefully.:2f2f:

Don't worry Kevin. If I decide that we need 4.6 gear's, we'll get em. I honestly think that the 4.36's that we both already have is the hot ticket for a street driven car though.

Back to the original topic of this thread... How about going Silvia front, isn't there a significance difference in weight since the pop up lights have all those parts as opposed to the fixed Silvia lights?

The silvia front end weighs around 40lbs lighter from what I have read. Every single part is lighter and the cooling is definitely better. While the s-13 pop-up front end is more aerodynamic for the most part I am more than willing to bet that the difference is minute though, especially with aftermarket bumpers and such. The ONLY reasons that I'm not chomping at the bit to get a silvia front is because of my Gracer aero that I already have and the fact that I already have a shitty (but light) "carbon" hood. That Gracer bumper and sides are just too sexy together to take them off just yet...

[Wookie384]

Hella housings ARE glass, from what I can remember.

They just have better light spread and a much better cut off, and allows you to run H4 light bulbs, so when a bulb goes out, you just replace the light bulb and not have to worry about getting another glass housing.

Plus, I think someone weighed the pop up light motors, and I think they said they were either 9lbs each side, or 9lbs total. I can't remember. I'll have to look it up.

Good to know, I've never actually held Hella housings personally, I always assumed they were made of plastic of some sort.

Silvia front ends aren't more aero dynamic, but it does allow more airflow into the IC if you remove the center grill.

I'm not worried about airflow to the IC/rad. as much as I am about aerodynamics/weight.

I think he is thinking of the Silvia S13 aero front bumper, which does create a little more downforce and less drag than any of the 180sx front ends, because the bumper is flat and goes aaaaaaaaaaall the way back to the engine cross member or somewhere around there, thus promoting a little more aerodynamic efficiency.

However, Def's car has a full splitter in the front, so that pretty much negates the Silvia S13 aero front bumper being more aerodynamic than the 180sx front end notion there.

Yeah, I was thinking about the Aero bumper for the S13 Silvia.

Don't worry Kevin. If I decide that we need 4.6 gear's, we'll get em. I honestly think that the 4.36's that we both already have is the hot ticket for a street driven car though.



The silvia front end weighs around 40lbs lighter from what I have read. Every single part is lighter and the cooling is definitely better. While the s-13 pop-up front end is more aerodynamic for the most part I am more than willing to bet that the difference is minute though, especially with aftermarket bumpers and such. The ONLY reasons that I'm not chomping at the bit to get a silvia front is because of my Gracer aero that I already have and the fact that I already have a shitty (but light) "carbon" hood. That Gracer bumper and sides are just too sexy together to take them off just yet...

Good, because I don't care about streetability, haha find that damn 4.6 already! lol:2f2f:

You could always buy the Silvia front and sell me the Gracier Aero, in fact It would be a nice Birfday present!:rofl:


BTW: Aron, Are Congrats in order yet?!?

[racepar1]

BTW: Aron, Are Congrats in order yet?!?

Yes sir, I've got a perfect 10lb 4oz baby girl! As far as the Gracer stuff goes, you're shit out of luck at least for a while. It's just too sexy.

[codyace]

Don't worry Kevin. If I decide that we need 4.6 gear's, we'll get em. I honestly think that the 4.36's that we both already have is the hot ticket for a street driven car though.

What size tire are you planning on running?

A 4.6 will go 130 in 4th with a a 265/35/18, so with a slightly smaller 17, and some more RPM I could easily see it doing the same. Can't much better than that IMO. Again from FWD experience with high strung DE cars, the more gear made the car always better.


And congratulations on the baby girl! It's certainly a life altering event! My best friend recently had a little girl and it's kinda surreal to say the least

[kognition]

You cant compare a sorted out JGTC car to anything. They are in a class unto themselves. They are super lightened, and have extensive wind tunnel time. Alot of detail goes into those cars. These are million dollar cars your talking about. With the support and resources involved in their success.

I wonder how the 2010 JGTC Z won the championship this year.... I think only 370's overheat stock LOL.... 350's just overheat after awhile LOL....

[slider2828]

You cant compare a sorted out JGTC car to anything. They are in a class unto themselves. They are super lightened, and have extensive wind tunnel time. Alot of detail goes into those cars. These are million dollar cars your talking about. With the support and resources involved in their success.

Agreed, but they run the same engine VQ35DE, so they had to be able to make it reliable and HP. In the final round this year, they had a ridiculous lead on the entire field.... Not talking about aero specifically, but this is similar to the cwest full carbon s2k....

[GripTerror]

Are you kidding, what the others said, the jgtc cars not only DONT run the original engines they are completely re-engineered monsters, suspension and otherwise.

[codyace]

Agreed, but they run the same engine VQ35DE, so they had to be able to make it reliable and HP. In the final round this year, they had a ridiculous lead on the entire field.... Not talking about aero specifically, but this is similar to the cwest full carbon s2k....

It's like saying Jimmy Johnson's small block is why the ne Zo6's run well...totally unrelated engines, other than the brand name on the valve covers.

[racepar1]

What size tire are you planning on running?

A 4.6 will go 130 in 4th with a a 265/35/18, so with a slightly smaller 17, and some more RPM I could easily see it doing the same. Can't much better than that IMO. Again from FWD experience with high strung DE cars, the more gear made the car always better.

I plan on running a 255/40/17 for now. Eventually I would like to switch to 255 or 265/35/18's. I just really liked the way my car felt with the 4.36. It was nice on the highway and pulled much better on the track. The 4.6 is obviously the next step, but I need to get more track time with the 4.3 before I decide to switch.

And congratulations on the baby girl! It's certainly a life altering event! My best friend recently had a little girl and it's kinda surreal to say the least

It's actually my second baby girl, my first is 3 now...

[racepar1]

You cant compare a sorted out JGTC car to anything. They are in a class unto themselves. They are super lightened, and have extensive wind tunnel time. Alot of detail goes into those cars. These are million dollar cars your talking about. With the support and resources involved in their success.

:werd:

When I look at the front end of a JGTC car the first thing I notice is all the ductwork behind the bumper and out through the hood and fenders. The engine bay airflow is meticulously managed. It was ridiculous to try and compare pretty much any other z to the JGTC cars.

[kognition]

Not trying to gang up on you or anything. So please don't take offense.
The C West S2K isn't unique in any respect. Anyone stateside can achieve the same with off the shelf bolt on body panels. It has high rpm and about 400-500 ish hp. But always always blew head gaskets at every event. It was more Tyler than car to be honest.

Agreed, but they run the same engine VQ35DE, so they had to be able to make it reliable and HP. In the final round this year, they had a ridiculous lead on the entire field.... Not talking about aero specifically, but this is similar to the cwest full carbon s2k....

[ZilviaKid]

http://www.matejblahut.com/gallery/d/1289-1/boyracer01.jpg
http://www.matejblahut.com/gallery/d/1295-1/boyracer03.jpg
more info on these at all?

build thread or something of the sort would be awesome.

[conrad_s13.5]

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