New Cage Builder Question

[bllabong89]

So, I am putting my fabricating skills to the test and will try to make my own cage. I don't think it should be too challenging but I do have a couple questions. This thread can also be used for other cage related questions if anyone has any or helpful info if you would like to share.

First is what kind of tubing should I use? I have heard 2"x.090 DOM Tubing and I read the Formula D regulations and they say 2"x.095 DOM plus/minus .01 I believe. I will most likely not be using this car in any Formula D events but I would like to have what is right for the sport.

Second is I have a 16 ton Tubing bender with a pneumatic pedal to bend my tubes. Will DOM tubing bend with this bender and not kink? It is similar to the bender Eugene used on his s13 build on Zilvia.
http://i983.photobucket.com/albums/ae319/ahill-miconcepts/press.jpg

Last question is does anyone know of a good tubing notcher?

Thanks everyone for looking.
Andrew

[shiftdrift]

i made my own cage using 1 1/2 .120 wall dom tubing. a jig a joint is a good notcher to use, different companies make it. that bender should work, as long as you have the correct size attachments. you can use hrew or dom, use dom.

[smbonn2005]

before you bend the tube fill it with sand, it will help keep the tube from kinking and just bend cleanly instead

[shiftdrift]

it's not going to "kink" it'll just slightly roll in, it's nothing major.

[theboy]

build it to an scca cage spec, thats where D1 gets their rules basically. 2"x.120 wall is allowed everwhere and D1 or any drift sanctioning body wont say hey you cage is thicker making it safer so you cant race here. Read rule books for specs over and over again cause you could go through all the work of making one and to find out your car isnt legal anywhere. DO YOUR RESEARCH. Cause you also dont want to build something thats going to injure you in an accident or roll over, so make sure worst case senario you can get out of the car if anything happens

[s14unimog]

the dimensions of the material are all based on the weight of the vehicle; check out SCCA's rules. The FD rules are on the web, Google should tell you something. I would not waste your material on a crush bender; like you have shown above. Despite what you may have heard, the wall will collapse and there are rules/guidelines about what is allowable. It's usually not that noticeable until you do bends over 30degs. Either invest in an air over hydraulic mandrel unit or measure well and have them produced. Packing sand will help but unless you can hold that sand under pressure it won't do much. Plus, have you ever tried packing 10' pipe full of sand... kind of a pain in the ass. Giggity :keke:

[bllabong89]

Yea. I read and printed off the guidelines of formula d requirements and it was based on Weight as you stated. I am going to buy one tube and see if this bender will work. If not than I will have some one build it most likely.

I am going to go with 2"x0.109" DOM tubing. I am going to weld on plates to the end to hold the sand in because I don't think tape will work. Lol. From that I think I may have to sit on my roof to fill the sand.

Thanks for the help and I will update with pics.

[xdumbxguyx]

i dont recommend using 2" tubing its going to make things a lot harder to work with.
go with 1.75" x .095 or 1.5" x .120 DOM. 2" tubing might be a problem with head clearance on the A pillar bar jsut a thought

[GunmetalSR]

well i hav a question i was gunna build mine from steel but my dad said i should use aluminum bc itll hold as well as steel in a roll over but be light compared to steel
your opinions please

[D.Adams]

well i hav a question i was gunna build mine from steel but my dad said i should use aluminum bc itll hold as well as steel in a roll over but be light compared to steel
your opinions please


Ummmm NO

You will not be able to run on most tracks using aluminum.

hope this helps


http://www.streetwisedrift.com/pdf/10-FD-Rules-2010%20ProAm%20Baseline%20100223-2.pdf

[fckillerbee]

well i hav a question i was gunna build mine from steel but my dad said i should use aluminum bc itll hold as well as steel in a roll over but be light compared to steel
your opinions please

I keep imagining building a cage out of soda cans.

[D.Adams]

So, I am putting my fabricating skills to the test and will try to make my own cage. I don't think it should be too challenging but I do have a couple questions. This thread can also be used for other cage related questions if anyone has any or helpful info if you would like to share.

First is what kind of tubing should I use? I have heard 2"x.090 DOM Tubing and I read the Formula D regulations and they say 2"x.095 DOM plus/minus .01 I believe. I will most likely not be using this car in any Formula D events but I would like to have what is right for the sport.

Second is I have a 16 ton Tubing bender with a pneumatic pedal to bend my tubes. Will DOM tubing bend with this bender and not kink? It is similar to the bender Eugene used on his s13 build on Zilvia.
http://i983.photobucket.com/albums/ae319/ahill-miconcepts/press.jpg

Last question is does anyone know of a good tubing notcher?

Thanks everyone for looking.
Andrew


When i started doing cages i just used a plasma cutter to cut most of the notches then ground them down to make them fit.

this is one that i have seen used and is ok for smaller jobs

Pipe/Tubing Notcher (http://www.harborfreight.com/pipe-tubing-notcher-42324.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=tubing%20notcher&utm_campaign=New%20Campaigns&gclid=CMzEgZGP2KQCFQQ_bAodyREsKw)


I wouldn't use that bender its going to kink the tubing and most racing bodies wont allow it because i creates a weak spot in the bend.


Get a mandrel bender where it draws the tube over the die and make a nice bend with no kinks.

something like this



Model 3 Manual or Hydraulic Tubing Bender at Van Sant Enterprises, Inc. (http://www.vansantent.com/model_3_bender.htm)

[atutt]

well i hav a question i was gunna build mine from steel but my dad said i should use aluminum bc itll hold as well as steel in a roll over but be light compared to steel
your opinions please

Please, slap your dad for me. Numerous times... DOM already flexes enough as it is. Aluminum? Do you want your car to kill you violently?

There's lots of "lols" in this thread.. HREW? Really? Lots of places (up here) won't even sell us that if we say it's for a cage.. ChroMo and DOM only.

When i started doing cages i just used a plasma cutter to cut most of the notches then ground them down to make them fit.

this is one that i have seen used and is ok for smaller jobs

Pipe/Tubing Notcher (http://www.harborfreight.com/pipe-tubing-notcher-42324.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=tubing%20notcher&utm_campaign=New%20Campaigns&gclid=CMzEgZGP2KQCFQQ_bAodyREsKw)

I wouldn't use that bender its going to kink the tubing and most racing bodies wont allow it because i creates a weak spot in the bend.

Get a mandrel bender where it draws the tube over the die and make a nice bend with no kinks.
something like this

Model 3 Manual or Hydraulic Tubing Bender at Van Sant Enterprises, Inc. (http://www.vansantent.com/model_3_bender.htm)

Do you even know what a "Mandrel Bender" is?
I highly doubt anyone on here has the $xx,xxx to throw at a REAL madrel bender.
A true hydraulic mandrel bender consists of mandrels. Which are little disks or balls attached to a cable. Which is pulled through the INSIDE of the tube. Usually by a hydro ram. This prevents the wall from shrinking at all....

You will almost certainly never find a "mandrel bender" for anything less than $15,000 used.. and even that's stretching it.

before you bend the tube fill it with sand, it will help keep the tube from kinking and just bend cleanly instead

This doesn't really work THAT well. It works slightly... Because the sand is not a solid. It will still allow the wall to deform. Although not as much as it does without anything in it at all... Also. you need to weld caps on the end of the tubes. Which means you need to bake the sand so all the moisture is removed... Even see a steam pipe blow up?> Yeah.. that will happen right in your face if the moisture isn't removed.

[Jonnie Fraz]

I love how guys ask " what do you think?" and when an experienced builder tels them something they do not want to hear they say..."I am gonna try it anyway."
A roll cage is not where you practice your fabrication skills. The bender that was posted up by the OP is referred to as a "kinker", or a "crush bender" .This is not how you want your cage formed. 2" DOM will be a little big for a 240. But that is just my opinion.

[Mongooze]

FD min spec is 1.50x0.95 DOM, 2 might be much.

I'm not too sure about that bender, might cause kinks, you should look into this one.
Results for AFFORDABLE BENDER TUBING BENDER (http://www.tjdieselperformance.com/servlet/the-AFFORDABLE-BENDER-------TUBING-BENDER/Categories)

Yeah def read over the rule book

as for tubing notchers, hah check this out.
PipeMaster™ - The Welder's Tool for Contour Fits (http://www.pipemastertools.com/)

[atutt]

I love how guys ask " what do you think?" and when an experienced builder tels them something they do not want to hear they say..."I am gonna try it anyway."
A roll cage is not where you practice your fabrication skills. The bender that was posted up by the OP is referred to as a "kinker", or a "crush bender" .This is not how you want your cage formed. 2" DOM will be a little big for a 240. But that is just my opinion.

This is to be expected. Everyone with a welder and couple other tools instantly think they're pro fabricators, lol

I've said that before... Any kind of protective/safety device is not the place for noobs to practice their welding and fab skills with their little 110v welder...

You are correct with the bender. That style bender will kink the the wall in the bend.
What you want is a bender that DRAWS the tube around the die.
Or a $20,000 mandrel bender :D

This is what I use :D
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i285/atutt/DSC_4837.jpg

Makes quick work of pretty much everything...
I've bent 1'' solid bar and 2.5x.250 tube in it... With ease.
Next step. I'm having a couple sets of mandrels made up by the guy I bought it off of. True mandrel bent cages ftw!

[roboticnissan]

I bought my mandrel bender for 300 dollars. Where are you folks pulling 15000 dollars?

[atutt]

Ugh... I can guarantee you DON'T have "Mandrel" bender...

THIS is a mandrel bender...
(Please not the MANDREL going INTO the tube)
http://home.flash.net/%7Edgjco/MandrelBender.jpg

I doubt you picked up something like this for $300....

There seems to be a GIANT misconception as to what a MANDREL BENDER is..

[roboticnissan]

Sir you are right haha just looked up mandrel.

[Jonnie Fraz]

Sir you are right haha just looked up mandrel.

No worries...It is a common misconception. Mandrel benders allow for tighter radius bends without tubing distortion. Our bends must be three times the diameter of the tubing...ie 1.5" DOM requires minimum 4.5" radius bend per most sanctioning bodies.

[240 GTR]

Rulebooks are there for a reason. Read it. Then read it again. Go ask some questions, then read it 3 more times. Also, look at how everyone is doing things in the fab thread. Lots of good info and techniques in there.

Like everyone else said, FD requires 1.5 x .095 DOM for everything under 3500 lbs. The rulebook also clearly states things like, "Bolt-in cages are NOT allowed", "ERW tubing is not permitted", etc.

[fckillerbee]

as for tubing notchers, hah check this out.
PipeMaster™ - The Welder's Tool for Contour Fits (http://www.pipemastertools.com/)

that's awesome!

[Def]

Use 1.75 x 0.95" DOM., 1/8" base plates(aim for AT LEAST 25 sq in of area on each plate, if not more) - it transfers over to SCCA rulebooks well, which is what most real racing series use as a base.

[bllabong89]

Yea, im not trying to say I am a master fabricator. I am just saying that I will get a tube and try to bend it. If it works, it works. If it doesnt, I will have someone put one in. Eugene used a crush bender similar to mine on his s13 on here and it looks like it worked out well.

I have read the rules on Formula D and they said you must use atleast 1.50" diameter tubing. I thought it was 2" but I was mistaken. I think I will be buying that pipmaster tool though. That looks like a good investment.

I am going to pack the tube with sand. I didn't know about the moisture so thanks for the heads up. Can I just stick it in the oven? I have never heard of baking sand to remove the moisture.

I appreciate everyones input on the topic and give my thanks to pointing out some things I haven't thought of.

[bllabong89]

So I never really got any more info on filling the tubing with sand. I checked around and couldn't find info on anyone baking sand to get the moisture out, fill the tub and weld end plates on...I did find this tho...YouTube - Bending part 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWT3N3m4bE4)

I figured I would put that up there. The guy taped off one end with duck tape, filled the tubing with water and then poured sand(from a bucket mixed with water) into the tube to replace the water with sand. Once the entire tube was filled and packed well, he taped the top end off with duck tape. He uses a crush bender similar to the one I will be using and shows how to measure the bend and so on.

I have ordered 1.75"x0.095 DOM tubing and am awaiting delivery from the metal company. Once I get it and attempt the main hoop, I will let everyone know how it goes.

[atutt]

Sorry I didn't see your comments.

Yes, baking it in the oven will remove the moisture.

The only real effective way to do this with sand is the way I mentioned. Bake it. Weld caps on the end. Bend it. Remove caps and sand..
Although, like I said, because the sand is not solid. it will still allow the tube walls to deform. Unlike true mandrels. Which are solid. Thus, allowing the walls to remain round.

[Jonnie Fraz]

After all this I think it would have been easier to have someone bend the tubes for you and then you cope and weld them in. Believe me that will teach you a ton about building cages.