Rutger's Suicide

[bb4_96]

Secret sex video linked to NJ student's suicide | US National Headlines | Comcast.net (http://www.comcast.net/articles/news-national/20100929/US.Student.Taped.Sex/)

Somebody help me understand why this was a hate crime Like so many people are trying to portray it and even pursue it in court as such?

[cc4usmc]

I'm surprised that they're not going after everyone that watched the video too.

You can't really discriminate against a man for fucking a woman, but when it's a man, oooooohhhhhhhh lordyyyyyyyyy.

[bb4_96]

^ Thank u. I'm still waiting for the sensitivity to everyone's everything to pass.

[cc4usmc]

That's only getting worse.

It didn't confirm in the article, but I wonder if this guy was a closet homosexual or, well, the opposite. I don't see someone who is proud to be gay jumping off a bridge.

[IIIXziuR]

Wow I heard about this but didn't know about the whole suicide part.

[bb4_96]

Also agreed. I don't see anyone proud of homosexuality bailing off a bridge. Especially that bridge. Maybe parents didn't approve, something of that nature. However, jumping was a very effective solution to the embarassment issue, if indeed that was his isssue. He will never be embarassed again.

[ALTRNTV]

Suicide is the coward's way out, no matter what circumstance you're in.

[ronmcdon]

That's pretty low to have roomates set up a camera in the room.
Was probably another case of the beer goggles.
That 'man' could have been a tranny.

No way a homosexual dude would take this so harshly.

[bb4_96]

That's pretty low to have roomates set up a camera in the room.
Was probably another case of the beer goggles.
That 'man' could have been a tranny.

No way a homosexual dude would take this so harshly.

I hadn't even considered that. What if he wasn't gay? On the roomates behalf. If a roommate was makin the sexy in a close vicinity to my person I might consider embarassing them. tape is a little extreme though.

[SimpleS14]

Based on the other articles I read, the guy that committed suicide was a closet homosexual. Ravi was going too far when he recorded the encounter and blast over the web not once, but twice (actually it failed second time around). He's only going to court for the NJ state law against soliciting imagery of sexual encounters without consent.

I wouldn't call this a hate crime, but that guy went to far blasting it on the net like that and getting someone else into the mix (Molly). Sucks that the guy committed suicide, I dont think I would be able to live with myself knowing my actions could have pushed someone over the edge (no pun intended).

[TheWolf]

Ravi is dead homo's room mate. Ravi was using his OWN laptop in his own room. I don't really see what Ravi is in trouble about. If he was using someone elses notebook or some hackery then I would understand a crime. Ravi did not push homo off the bridge. Infact this just looks like a really well executed prank. I hope cooler heads prevail and all the charges are dropped against them. I would file for my tuition back and damages if I had to sit through mandatory "sensitivity" training at rutgers. I goto college to learn about the degree program I elect. Not homo's feelings.

[ineedone]

Ravi is dead homo's room mate. Ravi was using his OWN laptop in his own room. I don't really see what Ravi is in trouble about. If he was using someone elses notebook or some hackery then I would understand a crime. Ravi did not push homo off the bridge. Infact this just looks like a really well executed prank. I hope cooler heads prevail and all the charges are dropped against them. I would file for my tuition back and damages if I had to sit through mandatory "sensitivity" training at rutgers. I goto college to learn about the degree program I elect. Not homo's feelings.

Wow....

First, it is undeniable that this is a total/absolute invasion of privacy. No where is it legal to tape someone, without their consent, especially during a sexual encounter, and then put that tape online.

Second, if the only reason this person decided to do this was because his roommate was gay, that would make it a hate crime. However, this may be much more difficult to prove. And so far, it seems that the prosecutor is not pushing to go that route.

I think the maximum sentence for invasion of privacy is 5 years. Clearly this guy did not know this kid would commit suicide, however, it is an intensely cruel thing to do to someone, he will most likely plea out to a year or two in prison, then, hopefully, the family will bring a civil case against him (Intentional/Negligent Infliction of Emotion Distress just to name a couple).

Mandatory sensitivity training? You do realize that internet bullying has become somewhat of an "epidemic" and is a lot more vicious then say "regular" bullying. This "prank" caused a kid to jump off a bridge, now I am not saying that this was the intent of the "prankster" however, I did hear this on NPR earlier but the kid who committed suicide said his reason was because he did not want his parents to find out he was gay because someone posted a "sex tape" and he just could not live knowing that. I would hope by the time you are in college you should be mature enough (god... hopefully) to realize that this type of stuff is ridiculous and flat out wrong. Maybe people should have to sit through a session where his family and friends speak to you (if you go to Rutgers) hopefully you would learn how awful this kind of stuff is and how this "prank" destroyed this kid's life, friends, and family.

[negrosx13]

Rutger has best sanwich on campus...Grease trucks for the ftw!

[TheWolf]

Wow....

First, it is undeniable that this is a total/absolute invasion of privacy. No where is it legal to tape someone, without their consent, especially during a sexual encounter, and then put that tape online.

Second, if the only reason this person decided to do this was because his roommate was gay, that would make it a hate crime. However, this may be much more difficult to prove. And so far, it seems that the prosecutor is not pushing to go that route.

I think the maximum sentence for invasion of privacy is 5 years. Clearly this guy did not know this kid would commit suicide, however, it is an intensely cruel thing to do to someone, he will most likely plea out to a year or two in prison, then, hopefully, the family will bring a civil case against him (Intentional/Negligent Infliction of Emotion Distress just to name a couple).

Mandatory sensitivity training? You do realize that internet bullying has become somewhat of an "epidemic" and is a lot more vicious then say "regular" bullying. This "prank" caused a kid to jump off a bridge, now I am not saying that this was the intent of the "prankster" however, I did hear this on NPR earlier but the kid who committed suicide said his reason was because he did not want his parents to find out he was gay because someone posted a "sex tape" and he just could not live knowing that. I would hope by the time you are in college you should be mature enough (god... hopefully) to realize that this type of stuff is ridiculous and flat out wrong. Maybe people should have to sit through a session where his family and friends speak to you (if you go to Rutgers) hopefully you would learn how awful this kind of stuff is and how this "prank" destroyed this kid's life, friends, and family.

Invasion of privacy ends when you are in a dorm room with a roommate. A dorm is a shared domicile and a sock on the door handle does not instantly make it a private domicile. If you've ever done dorm life you'd know that. Second. The only reason he checked it out is because his roommate came to him and requested to be alone. No one knew he was "gay" until the camera rolled. As far as Ravi knew he was getting drunk or doing drugs illegally, or making bombs. Dead homo was considered a loner.

A hate crime must have premeditation to persecute. "I did this crime against you because I knew you were gay" Again no one knew until the tape rolled.

Third. This whole "streaming" it live to the internet thing sounds bogus. Maybe Ravi checked on his webcam through the internet and thus it's "streaming sex tape over internet" but I doubt 50 people logged into this random webcam because that would require server hardware. I do think 20 people may have piled into "co conspirator" chick's room and watched it while offering commentary.

Mandatory sensitivity training. Yes. that is my point. If some weirdo want's to take balls to the chin in a dorm room somewhere on campus but doesn't want his parents to know about his perverted lifestyle. Why would I require sensitivity training to his BS fetish? He's the one who wants the homo lifestyle and everything that comes with it. He's the one that wants to be different. Do I require mandatory sensitivity training if two girls want to get it on but want to hide that from their parents? Oh no because they're girls and thats "porn" to society. But two gays guys is what we need to be sensitive about. BS. This whole be nice to gays thing has been blown way overboard and they need to get some thicker skin. The world is not out to get them. The world is out to move on. I'm 30 man. I've been to college. I've done the dorm life thing. Sure you get drunk. Hook up with skanky chicks. Have your roommate walk in on you with your dick in her butt. Or sometimes have your roommate walk in with your dick in his GF. It happens. You should get out more. Dorm life is hardly a "private" affair. This IS NOT internet Bullying. This is a homo getting caught with his pants down. Quite literally. Same thing if you had a video of Senator larry craig blowing a guy in a bathroom stall in MN airport and posted that on the internet. That's not bullying. That's just life.

The whole sitting down in a room with his parents is ridiculous. Ravi did not ruin this kids life. He was a closet homo that jumped off a bridge. HE ruined his own life when HE hit the water. He jumped off that bridge because he got caught playing tonsil hockey with another guy. IT WAS HIS OWN ACTIONS HE COULDN'T LIVE WITH. No one else's. Personal responsibility. It's not society's fault or ravi's fault or the internets fault. It's his fault.

The whole suing the school or Ravi or just the fact that he could goto prison for this is absolutely absurd and is the pinnacle of not taking responsibility for yourself or your own actions.

[ineedone]

Invasion of privacy ends when you are in a dorm room with a roommate. A dorm is a shared domicile and a sock on the door handle does not instantly make it a private domicile. If you've ever done dorm life you'd know that. Second. The only reason he checked it out is because his roommate came to him and requested to be alone. No one knew he was "gay" until the camera rolled. As far as Ravi knew he was getting drunk or doing drugs illegally, or making bombs. Dead homo was considered a loner.

I am sorry but you are absolutely wrong. The only time invasion of privacy is not "illegal" is when you are a public figure (i.e. Politician/Celebrity) because you have "put yourself in the public eye" with that in mind, here are the elements for invasion of privacy: 1) intrusion on one's solitude or into one's private affairs; 2) public disclosure of embarrassing private information; 3) publicity which puts him/her in a false light to the public; 4) appropriation of one's name or picture for personal or commercial advantage.

It does not matter why he decided to record him. The fact that he did, and then showed it to more than just himself is enough. I would say it is farily easy to say that if you are technically living in a dorm hall, showing it to at least 20 people as you say, would be plenty enough to satisfy the "publicity" aspect.


A hate crime must have premeditation to persecute. "I did this crime against you because I knew you were gay" Again no one knew until the tape rolled.

Hate crimes are crimes motivated by enmity or animus against a protected class. Premeditation has nothing to do with it. All you need is some sort of "anger"(enmity) or "prejudice"(animus). However, I do not seeing this being pursued in the case unless some facts come out that the person who recorded him had something against homosexuals.

Third. This whole "streaming" it live to the internet thing sounds bogus. Maybe Ravi checked on his webcam through the internet and thus it's "streaming sex tape over internet" but I doubt 50 people logged into this random webcam because that would require server hardware. I do think 20 people may have piled into "co conspirator" chick's room and watched it while offering commentary.

Like I said before, the "publicity" element of the law does not require you to upload it to a million users. Though every case is different, my dorm hall floor had 28 kids on it, having more then half of them watching my private actions would (I feel at least) constitute publicity.

Mandatory sensitivity training. Yes. that is my point. If some weirdo want's to take balls to the chin in a dorm room somewhere on campus but doesn't want his parents to know about his perverted lifestyle. Why would I require sensitivity training to his BS fetish? He's the one who wants the homo lifestyle and everything that comes with it. He's the one that wants to be different. Do I require mandatory sensitivity training if two girls want to get it on but want to hide that from their parents? Oh no because they're girls and thats "porn" to society. But two gays guys is what we need to be sensitive about. BS. This whole be nice to gays thing has been blown way overboard and they need to get some thicker skin. The world is not out to get them. The world is out to move on. I'm 30 man. I've been to college. I've done the dorm life thing. Sure you get drunk. Hook up with skanky chicks. Have your roommate walk in on you with your dick in her butt. Or sometimes have your roommate walk in with your dick in his GF. It happens. You should get out more. Dorm life is hardly a "private" affair. This IS NOT internet Bullying. This is a homo getting caught with his pants down. Quite literally. Same thing if you had a video of Senator larry craig blowing a guy in a bathroom stall in MN airport and posted that on the internet. That's not bullying. That's just life.

I am shocked that you are 30 quite honestly. Just because you yourself were fine with having certain aspects of you live violated, does not mean the rest of us would be. It seems that the only reason you have such a view against this is because the victim was gay. These people used the internet, to record a person (not knowingly) having sex, for the main reason of making fun of him. Some people would have just punched the kid and moved on, other are not built that way. Your views on what is/is not natural (I can not help but to say you clearly have a stance against homosexuality) is not the norm in society. Neither is it normal to video tape your roommate having sex (of any kind) and broadcast that to the world (or 20 of your "best friends").

The whole sitting down in a room with his parents is ridiculous. Ravi did not ruin this kids life. He was a closet homo that jumped off a bridge. HE ruined his own life when HE hit the water. He jumped off that bridge because he got caught playing tonsil hockey with another guy. IT WAS HIS OWN ACTIONS HE COULDN'T LIVE WITH. No one else's. Personal responsibility. It's not society's fault or ravi's fault or the internets fault. It's his fault.

Clearly there was more going on in this kid's life. However, just because it was not the "only" reason he decided to end his life, does not mean it was not a contributing reason. We know nothing of this kids life at home either, so before you go blaming him being gay, please do realize that people who are having trouble identifying why they are attracted to who they are attracted too struggle with this and a lot of depression goes on. If you do not have understanding parents, you can see why that would just add on top of that. Then, when you finally get to college, where your sex life is not something of embarrassment, your roommate makes a complete mockery of you and, in your mind, your parents will now find out you are gay because there is a video of you having sex on the internet. That has a powerful effect on a persons mind I can only imagine.

Again, I am not saying his roommate intended for any of this to happen. However, that he felt it was just fine to tape someone having sex without their knowledge for his own enjoyment, that is something that maybe he has learned is quite wrong. If he is any sort of a reasonable adult (or in this case child) this guy is probably going to be scarred for the rest of his life.

With all that said, we are not talking about prosecuting this guy for murder, or negligent homicide, or anything of the sort. Just invasion of privacy.

The whole suing the school or Ravi or just the fact that he could goto prison for this is absolutely absurd and is the pinnacle of not taking responsibility for yourself or your own actions.

No, it is not absurd. He broke the law, there do exist consequences for that. You have a very ignorant view of the law, and well the world (in my opinion). I really do not see there exist any debate to this. If you want to offer up any legitimate reason this was not invasion of privacy please do. However, if you feel this type of behavior is "socially acceptable" well that is entirely your own opinion. I am of the side that believes that it is not, and I believe people are granted a reasonable level of privacy. Not only that, but bullying has gone way overboard with the internet. Research proves this, the anonymous nature of the internet allows people who would usually have to see in real time how their actions affected someone (and hopefully show them they are hurting someones feelings) now do not get that reaction. Either way, this is a major issue with middle school to young college kids.

[bb4_96]

^ As insensitive as that slew was I actually agree with alot of the points you made. College isn't a place conduce to sensitivity to everyone's everything. it can't be reallyn not the way it's conducted now. Homosexual sensitivity is approaching racial sensitivity in this country and both need to stop. Thicker skin would definitely promote progress instead of pandering everyone who is "different".

I'm a little pissed that the guy that jumped isn't responsible for his death even though he committed suicide. In a way this is another case of lack of personal responsibility in this country.

There's alot of tension towards "protected groups" like gays,races, etc. in spoken conversation lately. I think there is a growing underlying resentment towards these groups of people by the general public. Average Joe might be getting tired of people from these groups getting special attention. Just a thought. I know many people personally who I'd never have thought to be prejudiced to be very much so. Not in an unjustified sense but in the sense that certain groups are milking this whole sensitivity system. All these "strides towards acceptance" might just blow up their faces one day in the not so distant future.

[bb4_96]

It seems that the only reason you have such a view against this is because the victim was gay. These people used the internet, to record a person (not knowingly) having sex, for the main reason of making fun of him. Some people would have just punched the kid and moved on, other are not built that way. Your views on what is/is not natural (I can not help but to say you clearly have a stance against homosexuality) is not the norm in society. Neither is it normal to video tape your roommate having sex (of any kind) and broadcast that to the world (or 20 of your "best friends").


Why did the roommate have to have done this on purpose? If you lived in a dorm then you know how things go right? What if five guys were hanging out in a room and ravi busts in pissed off because his sleep is being interupted. Knowing he left his cam on he decides to check out whats up. Before you know it there is hooting and hollering and 100 people on multiple floors are watching this. Simple mistake rolled out of control. Why does it have to be a cold calculated plan? The second encounter could have just been peer pressure on Ravi's part. or maybe he leaves his cam on regularly.

Like i said in my other post I don't think any one of the posters on this forums qualms is with homosexuality itself but the existence of the protected class.

[ineedone]

^ As insensitive as that slew was I actually agree with alot of the points you made. College isn't a place conduce to sensitivity to everyone's everything. it can't be reallyn not the way it's conducted now. Homosexual sensitivity is approaching racial sensitivity in this country and both need to stop. Thicker skin would definitely promote progress instead of pandering everyone who is "different".

What is wrong with Gays having equal rights? Are you trying to say it is fine to discriminate someone based on their sexual orientation? I think you need to go back a few years and re read what happened in the Matthew Sheppard case. Thicker skin? how about more understanding? more civility to our common man/woman.

I'm a little pissed that the guy that jumped isn't responsible for his death even though he committed suicide. In a way this is another case of lack of personal responsibility in this country.

His life is over, what else do you want to take from him? They are not prosecuting the kid who taped him for murder. Only invasion of privacy. Not sure what else/less you want to happen.

There's alot of tension towards "protected groups" like gays,races, etc. in spoken conversation lately. I think there is a growing underlying resentment towards these groups of people by the general public. Average Joe might be getting tired of people from these groups getting special attention. Just a thought. I know many people personally who I'd never have thought to be prejudiced to be very much so. Not in an unjustified sense but in the sense that certain groups are milking this whole sensitivity system. All these "strides towards acceptance" might just blow up their faces one day in the not so distant future.

Milking sensitivity system? How does acceptance hurt the common good? I think people need to go back and really read history and what has happened, the more integrated and accepting we become as a nation, the stronger.

[ineedone]

Why did the roommate have to have done this on purpose? If you lived in a dorm then you know how things go right? What if five guys were hanging out in a room and ravi busts in pissed off because his sleep is being interupted. Knowing he left his cam on he decides to check out whats up. Before you know it there is hooting and hollering and 100 people on multiple floors are watching this. Simple mistake rolled out of control. Why does it have to be a cold calculated plan? The second encounter could have just been peer pressure on Ravi's part. or maybe he leaves his cam on regularly.

Like i said in my other post I don't think any one of the posters on this forums qualms is with homosexuality itself but the existence of the protected class.

Well, in this case, he did do this on purpose. In your hypothetical though, I am not sure. My guess would be if it were known between the roommates that the camera was always on, then there would not be much you could do, however, if it was not known then you could run into some liability. If you are broadcasting you are liable for what you broadcast (accidentally/purposely) though I do believe.

[240sx123$]

I dont understand what this Ravi kid cared for... My freshman roommate in college was gay.. I didnt even know about it until 2nd semester. My point is- who the fuck cares? My roommate knew that I WASNT gay, so we never had an issue. Change rooms over it? Are you kidding me?! Its not like hes going to rape you in your sleep. Have a little tolerance. My roommate was an excellent person to live with- theyre a very clean people (lol). I dont understand people in this world- what is there to fear in homosexuality? If youre not gay, how does it affect you at all??? Honestly, if two dudes are gettin it on in a dorm, just stay off my bed, and make sure i dont walk in on it. Thats all I ask.

[bb4_96]

What is wrong with Gays having equal rights? Are you trying to say it is fine to discriminate someone based on their sexual orientation? I think you need to go back a few years and re read what happened in the Matthew Sheppard case. Thicker skin? how about more understanding? more civility to our common man/woman.

There is nothing wrong with gays having equal rights. Please do not twist my fucking words. I know you are smarter that to assume that i implied that. I just don't think openly gay people should be protected from ridicule. A gay man ought to be equal just like me and all his life choices ought to be open to ridicule just like mine. I'm very upset by the fact that society has built special protections for certain groups. Thats is not equality or equal rights.

His life is over, what else do you want to take from him? They are not prosecuting the kid who taped him for murder. Only invasion of privacy. Not sure what else/less you want to happen.

i want people to view him as a selfish ass just like every other idiot that commits suicede, not some fucking martyre as he will be portrayed.

Milking sensitivity system? How does acceptance hurt the common good? I think people need to go back and really read history and what has happened, the more integrated and accepting we become as a nation, the stronger.

Acceptance is great but it comes with time. All the protections from something as simple as ridicule is only hurting progress. I think you need to look at the history going on right now in the world and how much resentment of the special protection of the different races is hindering their acceptance, gays are no different. Gay isn't completely socially accepted yet. That doesn't mean the legal system should try to force it, it's only causing harm. People will slowly journey outside their comfort zone and accept all people in their own time(it might take generations). But it has to be allowed to happen, not forced. The legal system forcing acceptance is only creating resentment towards these groups.

[bb4_96]

I dont understand what this Ravi kid cared for... My freshman roommate in college was gay.. I didnt even know about it until 2nd semester. My point is- who the fuck cares? My roommate knew that I WASNT gay, so we never had an issue. Change rooms over it? Are you kidding me?! Its not like hes going to rape you in your sleep. Have a little tolerance. My roommate was an excellent person to live with- theyre a very clean people (lol). I dont understand people in this world- what is there to fear in homosexuality? If youre not gay, how does it affect you at all??? Honestly, if two dudes are gettin it on in a dorm, just stay off my bed, and make sure i dont walk in on it. Thats all I ask.

I feel the same way but alot of people. Especially the older generation/people from countries where it isn't widely accepted do not agree. They view it as some type of disease or whatever. it will take a few generations of gays being patient to weed that ignorance out.

[240sx123$]

Its the intolerant that we should be persecuting. Not minorities. Theres so much intolerance in this world, and its the stem of so many problems. Americans that cant tolerate Islam, Muslims that cant tolerate Jews, White people that cant tolerate black.. its fucking stupid. Every time I hear some redneck say something racist, I notice how he feels empowered by it. Its pathetic, and all I want to do is get into a real intellectual debate with that person, but the sad truth is that these bigots usually cant even hold a coherant conversation, much less back up their bigotry with facts or even a persuasive argument. I dont know about charging that kid for manslaughter or murder- i think invasion of privacy is the right charge.. but he's gonna have to live with what he did- and thats a far worse punishment.

Call me a Wook, but cant we all just get along?:rofl:

*whispers* cant we all just get a bong?

[bb4_96]

^ You can't persecute the intolerant. It only breeds more intolerance. if i make a silly joke at work and it gets blown out of proportion of taken out of context(I would be seen as intolerant) and I'm sued or fired for it, not only am i forever resentful of that group but my friends and family are likely to be a little less tolerant as well.

[240sx123$]

^ You can't persecute the intolerant. It only breeds more intolerance.

Good point. I had never considered that. But the way to fight intolerance is not through acceptance of the intolerant.

I guess the only way to fight intolerance is through education.

[bb4_96]

^We have a winner.

[aznpoopy]

Why did the roommate have to have done this on purpose? If you lived in a dorm then you know how things go right? What if five guys were hanging out in a room and ravi busts in pissed off because his sleep is being interupted. Knowing he left his cam on he decides to check out whats up. Before you know it there is hooting and hollering and 100 people on multiple floors are watching this. Simple mistake rolled out of control. Why does it have to be a cold calculated plan? The second encounter could have just been peer pressure on Ravi's part. or maybe he leaves his cam on regularly.


um, stop making random shit up.

first time, gay suicide kid asks ravi to leave room. ravi says okay. ravi goes to molly's room, messages himself on ichat to spy on his roommate, finds gay sex (kind of semi illegal). then he decides to put it on blast on twitter (more illegal), so that, even though he did not explicitly state it, anyone could have viewed the gay sex.

second time, gay suicide kid asks him to leave again. this time, ravi actually moved his computer or cam or whatever to get a better view of it, and put it on blast on twitter before it happened, telling everyone to message him to see some gay sex (super illegal). although this time, he failed (i.e. attempted), because gay kid caught on and axed the webcam feed.

read ravi's original twitter posts here
How a College Kid Livestreamed His Roommate Having Gay Sex, Possibly Causing a Suicide (http://gawker.com/5651050/how-a-college-kid-livestreamed-his-roommate-having-gay-sex-possibly-causing-a-suicide)

gay suicide kid gay forum posts about it here
Is This Webcam Spying Victim Tyler Clementi's Last Call for Help? (http://gawker.com/5651659/is-this-webcam-spying-victim-tyler-clementis-last-call-for-help)

Invasion of privacy ends when you are in a dorm room with a roommate. A dorm is a shared domicile and a sock on the door handle does not instantly make it a private domicile. If you've ever done dorm life you'd know that.

legally, you are completely and utterly wrong. just sayin'

Second. The only reason he checked it out is because his roommate came to him and requested to be alone. No one knew he was "gay" until the camera rolled. As far as Ravi knew he was getting drunk or doing drugs illegally, or making bombs. Dead homo was considered a loner.

A hate crime must have premeditation to persecute. "I did this crime against you because I knew you were gay" Again no one knew until the tape rolled.

see above - ravi's twitter post regarding second gay sex encounter. certainly "premeditated" in terms of mens rea, although "intentionally" is probably the word in the statute.

Third. This whole "streaming" it live to the internet thing sounds bogus. Maybe Ravi checked on his webcam through the internet and thus it's "streaming sex tape over internet" but I doubt 50 people logged into this random webcam because that would require server hardware. I do think 20 people may have piled into "co conspirator" chick's room and watched it while offering commentary.

see above - 1. ravi's twitter post regarding second gay sex encounter; 2. webcam feed was through ichat; anyone who messages you can see it

The whole sitting down in a room with his parents is ridiculous. Ravi did not ruin this kids life. He was a closet homo that jumped off a bridge. HE ruined his own life when HE hit the water. He jumped off that bridge because he got caught playing tonsil hockey with another guy. IT WAS HIS OWN ACTIONS HE COULDN'T LIVE WITH. No one else's. Personal responsibility. It's not society's fault or ravi's fault or the internets fault. It's his fault.

actually, if you read gay suicide kid's forum posts (link above) he doesn't seem suicidally upset about the whole deal. more like, "i'm fucking annoyed, i'm going to complain to RA and get a new roommate assigned." it's a bit of a mystery as to why he killed himself. it's something not in the media reports; maybe family related? at any rate, i hope you use this as a lesson in the dangers of forming strong opinions based on nothing except your own assumptions.


Somebody help me understand why this was a hate crime Like so many people are trying to portray it and even pursue it in court as such?

it should be clear from ravi's twitter. he didn't say, "lol hey msg me to see my roommate having sex." yes, a common college prank (which would still be highly illegal btw). he said, "msg me to see my SNIP gay roommate being a goddamn SNIP; fuck my room is dirty." well, not in so many words.

[240sx123$]

Why do you insist on calling him "gay suicide kid?"

Not really cool. The kid who caused it all gets a name, but the victim gets "gay suicide kid?" Go fuck yourself.

[aznpoopy]

alright, let me get my lotion

no seriously, i only know dickhead's kid name b/c it popped up in the thread posts i was responding to

i completely forgot the gay suicide kid's name. i knew it yesterday or the day before when i read all this shit, but i forgot it now, and it wasn't particularly relevant to the response

now if you take "gay suicide kid" offensively, consider whether social conditioning has trained you to think of such things as offensive, because really it's perfectly descriptive. if i wanted to be offensive, i might have called him "SNIP suicide kid"

[ineedone]

alright, let me get my lotion

no seriously, i only know dickhead's kid name b/c it popped up in the thread posts i was responding to

i completely forgot the gay suicide kid's name. i knew it yesterday or the day before when i read all this shit, but i forgot it now, and it wasn't particularly relevant to the response

now if you take "gay suicide kid" offensively, consider whether social conditioning has trained you to think of such things as offensive, because really it's perfectly descriptive. if i wanted to be offensive, i might have called him "******suicide kid"

Tyler Clementi

[dedginton]

fucking moderators are fucking retarded for fucking axing the only level headed guy on their retarded fucking forum. pinked mods banning someone because he quoted some shit? get a fucking life you fucking *pinked*....

fuck.
:fawk2::fawk2::fawk2::fawk2::fawk2::fawk2::fawk2:: fawk2::fawk2::fawk2::fawk2::fawk2::fawk2::fawk2::f awk2::fawk2::fawk2:

[cc4usmc]

fucking moderators are fucking retarded for fucking axing the only level headed guy on their retarded fucking forum. f%$%^& mods banning someone because he quoted some shit? get a fucking life you fucking f$#%^&....

fuck.
:fawk2::fawk2::fawk2::fawk2::fawk2::fawk2::fawk2:: fawk2::fawk2::fawk2::fawk2::fawk2::fawk2::fawk2::f awk2::fawk2::fawk2:

He wasn't banned fucktard, he was pinked. Big difference. And hey, look, I censored your F words.


Wait, so there actually was no filming of teh sex? At least according to

Is This Webcam Spying Victim Tyler Clementi's Last Call for Help? (http://gawker.com/5651659/is-this-webcam-spying-victim-tyler-clementis-last-call-for-help)

[dedginton]

well your forum is still shitty so there

[Wake]

so get the fuck outta here then.

Im so tired of the bigotry, prejudice, discrimination, and downright hate filled, shit I have been seeing on this site lately.
A lot of us have spent a lot of time trying to make zilvia a welcome place for everyone except idiots. Talking shit about someone because of their orientation in any way is against forum rules and just shows your idiocy for all to see. If you see a pink snip that means the poster of that pragraph did something against the rules and was reprimanded for it, which could result in anywhere from a day to 6 months of pinking I believe. They usually give you a warning if its just quoted. Dont attack mods and the rest of the site for one persons ignorance.
If you dont like it maybe you should go jump off a fucking bridge.
Have fun being pinked, if not banned.

[dedginton]

you guys should purple me instead.

just sayin' naaaw meen

[rc1honda]

It really is a sad situation. Who knows his mental staus when he decided to commit suicide. He clearly was having trouble not just with his sexuality but with his self esteem as well.

Now most people with self esteem issues i usually will tell to buck up and buy a fucking helmet. But this is a very different case.

Fact of the matter is that a persons sexuality reaches into the deepest parts of that persons psyche, persona, and soul. And to have it mocked at college where image is everything was probably pretty hard to deal with.
Yes the taper should be punished. And Tyler i don't think was trying to be a martyr. I also don't think that the only reason he killed himself was because he was gay.

Now Glaad wants to use this case a beacon of imposed tolerance then i might have some objections. But as it stands the tapers is getting his due punishment.

[tommytwo40hands]

how in the hell do you know you're gay at age 13!?!? Some people need to be a little harder on their kids so they grow up to be mutha fukin men not a bunch a damn homo's :2c:

[Phlip]

I'm in a good mood, so I will only pink that last guy for 3 months for each offense.

[Wake]

can someone explain to me what the fuck anyone elses sex life has to do with them or their fucking opinion?

I fuck bunny rabbits with a rusty sawzall, how the fuck does affect you, your marriage, or your religion?

[Phlip]

can someone explain to me what the fuck anyone elses sex life has to do with them or their fucking opinion?

I fuck bunny rabbits with a rusty sawzall, how the fuck does affect you, your marriage, or your religion?

If you don't love my God as I understand him, that makes you a heathen and hellworthy, simple as that.
If that means you like people with the same equipment as you, or rabbits, then so be it, but your Lagomorphilia makes you a genuinely bad person and we just cannot be friends anymore, even though I don't even know your first name.

[TheWolf]

Like i said in my other post I don't think any one of the posters on this forums qualms is with homosexuality itself but the existence of the protected class.

Amen.

(I can not help but to say you clearly have a stance against homosexuality) is not the norm in society.

Yes I don't want to be gay. Just because I'm not gay doesn't mean I'm against gays. I'm against people who cry that because someone is gay then they suffer this persecution. Gay's chose that lifestyle to lead and that lifestyle does have pro's and con's like every other life choice. The "I'm born gay" gene is bogus. No one's forcing someone to live the gay lifestyle. They're not some oppressed people. While I personally don't approve, it doesn't mean I discriminate or hate. Those are two different areas.


I fuck bunny rabbits with a rusty sawzall, how the fuck does affect you, your marriage, or your religion?

I'm a very much live and let live kinda person. As long as I don't need mandatory sensitivity training for your bunny rabbit coitus, I'm cool.


As to those who believe their personal civil liberties are absolutely stone clad solid at college. I write what I write because I've been an RA. I've actually had to read the colleges policy. Each college has it's own legal policy that dictates what can and can't happen on campus. Campuses act as DMZ for civil liberties. On one hand it's a private area, in another your on a public gov't owned campus. Your right against search and seizure is severely limited. Officers do not need a warrant or any real probable cause to search your dorm visually. They can not open anything but if it's visible then it's arrestable. Your right to bear arms obviously doesn't extend as well. Sexual acts of any kind are banned most often. Your free speech (while never tested) can be limited on a gov't facility. IE you can't protest healthcare reform in the US senate gallery but you can in your own home. If your shouting "down with campus president" is against their ideals, college police can have you quieted or removed. Check your own colleges rules. Your milage will vary but many are slanted against you.

So if rutgers has dorm rooms like the ones down here in florida which are one common room that contains 2-3 beds. If this is the case then this has been proven in court to not be a "private" space but a public space with limited access. Legally it would be no different than if he was filmed in the hallway or in a public park. Or as it was put before "In the public view". Now if the room is a common room with separate closed door personal living spaces then it's completely private and ravi is sunk. ineedone's example of someone bugging his RA room follows this since RA's usually don't have roommates and have a private room thus an expectation of privacy if the door is closed. He is the only one with a key. Now if Ravi walked in on Clementii and opened the door for the planet to see or someone standing in the hallway with a video camera. Clementii did not exercise reasonable efforts to conceal his actions from a casual observer and his right to privacy would not apply. It will be an interesting case to say the least. NJ law does have a quip about how it's illegal to video anyone in a sex act without their expressed permission. That will be the linch pin around his neck. The second charge I think will be thrown out.

As to everyone trying to link this boys death to campus or ravi's actions. Suicide always breaks the legal chain of causality. Rutgers or ravi can not be responsible for his death in anyway shape or form.

[theicecreamdan]

Yes I don't want to be gay. Just because I'm not gay doesn't mean I'm against gays. I'm against people who cry that because someone is gay then they suffer this persecution. Gay's chose that lifestyle to lead and that lifestyle does have pro's and con's like every other life choice. The "I'm born gay" gene is bogus. No one's forcing someone to live the gay lifestyle. They're not some oppressed people. While I personally don't approve, it doesn't mean I discriminate or hate. Those are two different areas.



What is your background in genetics? I doubt there is anybody in the world who could convincingly say there is, or isn't a gene, or many genes which have effects on human sexuality.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,983027,00.html but here's something to look at.

[KiLLeR2001]

Only if he believed in God would he, A) Not have been gay. and B) Would not have suicided.

[rc1honda]

Only if he believed in God would he, A) Not have been gay. and B) Would not have suicided.

In my opinion, if you're serious, this is one of the most naive and close minded statements i have ever read on forum.

This goes right to the very fabric of what homo/bi sexuals have been telling the public. They say it's not choice. This is who they are. And i tend to believe them. Sure there are probably some who might fake being gay just for attention. But I am sure this is atypical and not the norm.

And if that is true then it would also be true that if he did believe in God then it would of been God who made him gay. If not then genetics, nature vs. nurture whatever. Hell maybe he was sick of being gay too. Maybe he hated himself so much he couldn't stand himself. And instead of pretending to be something he is not he took himself out of the equation.

Either way suicide is not to be condoned and you can't blame the taping of him having sex as a direct cause of his death, but it damn sure was a contributing factor. And his roommate was wrong for doing what he did.

I mean where is everyone sense of humility, integrity, and decency. Everything that makes a human being a human. The things that seperate us from animals. Empathy.

That guy Ravi deserves some kind of criminal action because what he did was criminal. And maybe we shouldn't have bleeding hearts for a man who commits suicide. But the least we should have is understanding.

[Wake]

Only if he believed in God would he, A) Not have been gay. and B) Would not have suicided.

thanks for the new idiot of the month quote!

I have a very close personal friend who is not only gay but the most upstanding, god fearing, christian you could ever meet. Not only does he realize that he is a walking contradiction (Starburst commercial?) but has problems with his very own existence and believes that he truly will burn in hell because he is an abomination. Now that has not stopped him from embracing the fact that he is gay and living life to the fullest as well as continuing to be the best christian he can.
Now explain to me how god has a problem with homosexuals if this family of devout born again Christians have 3 sons and all of them end up being gay?
Thats not genetic? what do you call it?

And please understand that this family goes to church twice a week (as a family) and all 3 sons have serious issues with themselves as Christians. However their faith has never faltered nor have they questioned any thing about it. I mean i regularly get in arguments about evolution them, usually for my own amusement but still I have never once questioned their beliefs or if they were devout Christians.
Explain away, you close minded fucks.

[Walperstyle]

This is just another media hype to try to get ratings. 10 years from now, Homosexuality will be normal, and the next controversy will be some kid that likes to have sex with his dog, made public after he kills himself.

'aww poor guy felt discriminated against, lets make it legal to have sex with animals'

Only if he believed in God would he, A) Not have been gay. and B) Would not have suicided.
I know what you mean, but as Christian, you should know that we are all sinners. Thats like saying the killings that happened in the Crusades were a just cause. lol. Even though I agree with you its a weak argument.


Now explain to me how god has a problem with homosexuals if this family of devout born again Christians have 3 sons and all of them end up being gay?
Thats not genetic? what do you call it?


horrible parenting lol. The number of times you go to Church doesn't make you a better Christian. Living like Jesus one did is probably the best way. Hang out with prostitutes, help the diseased, etc. I'm sure if a Homosexual helped save peoples lives some things can be forgiven. In-fact all sins are forgiven.


That said, I really have no problem with people expressing love. I just don't care to hear your story. lol.

[ronmcdon]

Only if he believed in Jesus would he, A) Not have been gay. and B) Would not have suicided.

lmao! best thing I've read in Zilvia for a while

[TougeLove]

i blame "rap music"
:fruit:

[KiLLeR2001]

Nice, didn't think I would troll that many people. Nothing left to prove here. :)

ps, going to church X amount of times does not make you X amount more of a Christian than the next person.

[Wake]

Are you admitting your a troll?
Nothing makes you a better Christian because its a whole religion based on "I say so".

WTF is point in believing being born is a sin? anyway thats a different thread.

[Csomme]

Being gay is just a sin, just like lying, no one sin is greater than another, they're all equally as sickening to God.

God forgives all, ALL. From murdering to lying as long as your heart is in the right place.

Anywho, all the gay friends I have all admit that if they could choose to not be gay they would. They wish they were attracted to the opposite sex, but just aren't. I used to not believe that it wasn't a choice to be gay, but now I think that it definitely isn't a choice to most.


Flame on.

[bb4_96]

What is your background in genetics? I doubt there is anybody in the world who could convincingly say there is, or isn't a gene, or many genes which have effects on human sexuality.

SEARCH FOR A GAY GENE - TIME (http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,983027,00.html) but here's something to look at.

That time magazine article isn't the only article out the on personality genes. I've been following the subject since I took my fist biology course years ago. There is fairly compelling arguments that many personality traits could be if not probably are gentically controlled.

[Wake]

Shit they just found out ADHD is genetic, why the fuck wouldnt being gay also have the same cause?

[Walperstyle]

i blame "rap music"
:fruit:

Anything after 1996 is horrible rap.

[Walperstyle]

Anywho, all the gay friends I have all admit that if they could choose to not be gay they would. They wish they were attracted to the opposite sex, but just aren't. I used to not believe that it wasn't a choice to be gay, but now I think that it definitely isn't a choice to most.


I'm sure they are gay because the failed so hard at picking up women. Thats always the case with the gay guys I know. They just suck at life, and take the easy way out. Finding an opposite sex partner is just as easy as finding a gay one.

Tell them I said that, and will gladly send a woman over to sit on their face.
Cheers


That time magazine article isn't the only article out the on personality genes. I've been following the subject since I took my fist biology course years ago. There is fairly compelling arguments that many personality traits could be if not probably are gentically controlled.

Are you a Biology Major? I hope you spend less time reading and getting in discussions on forums and more time trying to cure real diseases.

[J3123MY]

Whether you hate gays or dont care,
this is another sad fucked up situation where so many young lives got fucked.

1 dead dude in his early 20's
and 2 18 year olds facing up to 5 years in prison for a stupid prank.

And all the families and friends involved...

Althought, the gay dude could have kept it more hidden if something like this exposed would have caused his suicide.
I mean telling your roommate you need the room privately for a good amount of time and showing up with a dude kinda indicates you might be gay.

[kingkilburn]

This shit is a laugh riot to me. Why is the fact that this punk couldn't stand up for himself is so overshadowed by the fact that he was gay.

Him being gay is irrelevant to what happened. His roommate would have been a douche whether he was straight or gay. Either way he still bitched out instead of handling his business and because of that I can't feel bad for the guy.

[bb4_96]

^ Thats what i said

[bb4_96]

Are you a Biology Major? I hope you spend less time reading and getting in discussions on forums and more time trying to cure real diseases.

Posting on here is fun for free time but it's all relevant. There is something to gain from peoples reactions as well.

[wh0aitznic0]

I understand why closet gays are closet gays. There have been a few ig'nant posters in here that are the reason for it. Try this, actually pay attention in a regular conversation you have with a buddy of yours and count how many times you use "gay" in a negative context. Such as "oh, that car looks gay as hell," or "that dude looks like a f**." Shit like that. I bet you'll find alot. I even find myself doing it.

I'm not going to lie, I was brought up in a very religious household and catholic grade school that was very conservative. Until about age 13 I was homophobic. To the core. Then I was exposed to a public high school where you have much more social diversity. Tolerance was one of the best skills I've picked up in my high school education. At the end of the day, ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation, skin color, etc don't matter, we're all just regular people in the pursuit of happiness.

One of the coolest, happiest, most down to earth people I know is my openly gay friend. He tells me that even though he's gay, he doesn't want any special attention or treatment for it. He just wants to be treated the same as anybody else.

I've offered to go with him to pick up dudes and shit at the mall or something but he says I don't attract the kind of guys he likes. :|

[KiLLeR2001]

I've offered to go with him to pick up dudes and shit at the mall or something but he says I don't attract the kind of guys he likes. :|

Saving this quote for your upcoming "coming out of the closet" speech.

:ghey:

[bb4_96]

Can i compare gay's in the closet to secretive mixed couples back in the civil rights movements?

[wh0aitznic0]

Saving this quote for your upcoming "coming out of the closet" speech.

:ghey:

People that put S15 fronts on their cars are gayer than anybody else on the planet.

jussayin. :keke:

[kingkilburn]

Can i compare gay's in the closet to secretive mixed couples back in the civil rights movements?

No you can't.

Gays in the closet tend to be scared of what their loved ones will think.

Interracial couples feared physical violence.


It's like comparing peer pressure to open threat.

[bb4_96]

Since violence towards couples has died down since then, can i compare them to modern day mixed couples, eg. more or less accepted per region but still moderately frowned upon?

[Walperstyle]

Posting on here is fun for free time but it's all relevant. There is something to gain from peoples reactions as well.

uh huh. :barfkiss:

[kingkilburn]

...but still moderately frowned upon?


So the real you comes out. :tweak::tweak::tweak::tweak::squint::squint:

Maybe you should watch what you say when you have no clue who you are talking to.

:fawk2:

[240sx123$]

I think he was expressing the "general" point of view by society, not his personal opinion on the matter. I dont know if id call mixed relationships "frowned upon," but theyre certainly not accepted as "the norm" yet, so I can understand the basis of his inquiry. But no, I dont think theyre comparable.

[kingkilburn]

His idea of what "general" is is a reflection of his own view point.

I don't know what country you guys are living in but I don't know a single person that frowns upon interracial couples. In fact interracial seems to be just as common as not these days. That implies to me that most people don't much care about race in that sense.

[bb4_96]

His idea of what "general" is is a reflection of his own view point.

I don't know what country you guys are living in but I don't know a single person that frowns upon interracial couples. In fact interracial seems to be just as common as not these days. That implies to me that most people don't much care about race in that sense.

I appreciate you proving my point. Interracial couples struggled through hate crimes and all brand of critisizm during civil rights movement. Now they are almost universally accepted in this country. homosexual relationships will face the same if not lesser struggles.

On a side note you won't get very far taking that statement out of context. I'm in an interracial relationship.

[kingkilburn]

I'm the product of one and have been in a few outside of the races of my parents. :D

It sure sounds like verbalizing an inner issue akin to asking advice for your "friend" to me lol.
Maybe you just live in the wrong area.