Small-form PCs

[Dutchmalmiss]

So I'm on the market for a new PC (current one is from 2005 and just overheated itself to death), and I'm interested in a small form factor sized towers since my room is small and would like to get a smaller desk. Is this do-able for someone that does casual computing? All I personally want is:

- core i7
- at least 4gb RAM
- 64gb or bigger SSD
- a decent GPU for HD viewing

Also, do small-form PC's run hotter because of the less internal space? Oh yeah, and I'm tryin to keep costs at around the 500-600 range since I'd like to use the leftover money to buy a nice monitor as well.

[S13shaka]

figure out what case you want first then from there you can start picking and choosing parts, newegg performance-pcs

im guessing this wont be doing any intensive processes, just video wwathcing, gaming, and general computing?

an i5 might be a better choice bc of your price range

[Dutchmalmiss]

Thing is, I don't know where to find good cases.

Like is this cool?
Newegg.com - Broadway Com Corp 1244MA-BLACK Glossy black Steel ATX Mini Tower Computer Case 500W Power Supply (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811162060)

or this
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811112218

or this
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811190102

I'd rather get a low-end i7 than a high-end i5.

[FRpilot]

I just built a sff pc. it's expensive and those cases you pointed out are not sff, they are mini towers. mini towers are small though, but taller than sff. generally, sff will only accept matx or iatx board, i'm pretty sure you can put a regular atx board in those mini towers.

sff do run hotter since there is less space. the heat in mine where the gpus are position is especially hot. i can feel the heath through the plexi window, but the cpu/memory side is cooler. you would want to get a full modular psu and only plug in cables that you will be using, so there won't be a rats nest clogging your airflow. lots of fans should be considered too.

btw, i7 could be either a p55 chipset or x58 chipset. i have a i7 860, but it is a socket 1156. p55 is recommended because the mobos are generally $100 cheaper than x58 mobos and fit your budget. and stock for stock, an i5 750 runs as fast or faster than a i7 930 according to most benchmarks.

[Dutchmalmiss]

^^ would building a mini be cheaper than sff then? or the same? I don't know where to get cool cases/towers other than tigerdirect and newegg

And what is your setup, if I may ask? (pics of the tower/case would help too please)

[comablack783]

Smaller PCs suffer from overheating issues, infact I work at a university and we stopped ordering SFF and USFF (ultra sff) because we were getting capacitors that would over heat and bubble which would cause system board failure. Of course this all depends on the brand, these were dells... If your looking to save space MAC mini is hard to beat.

Apple - Mac mini - The most affordable, energy-efficient Mac. (http://www.apple.com/macmini/)

Shuttle makes some pretty small cases.. heres there competition for the mac.. atom... gross..

Newegg.com - Shuttle XS35-704 Intel Atom D510 1.66GHz Intel Socket BGA559 Intel NM10 Intel GMA 3150 Barebone (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856101096)

This MSI is a little bigger, kinda nice..

Newegg.com - MSI Hetis G41 Intel Core2 Quad / Core2 Duo / Celeron Intel Socket T(LGA775) Intel G41 Intel GMA X4500 Barebone (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856167040)

a few more..
Newegg.com - Shuttle SA76G2 AMD Phenom II / Phenom / Athlon 64 X2 / Athlon 64 AMD Socket AM2+ / AM3 AMD 760G ATI Radeon 3000 Barebone (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856101083)

new egg is awesome...

Newegg.com - Foxconn NT-510-A-B-A-NA Intel Atom D510 Intel NM10 1 x 200Pin Intel GMA 3150 Nettop Barebone (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856119026)

[Dutchmalmiss]

Are these overheating issues due to excessive use or just few-hours-a-day use? I don't believe I'm on a pc that much, haha. I DEFINITELY don't want to go the atom route, as those aren't very good at multitasking yet.

That MSI Hetis G41 looks REAL good to me actually. Does MSI make anything with the new core processors?

The new mac minis are still equipped with core 2 duos. how "future-proof" is that compared to a mildly built i7?

Basically I want my new pc to last as long as my last one did (5 years+)

[S13shaka]

on newegg filter the search results in computer cases by microatx and mini itx mobos, thats what your talking about.

you really dont need an i7 either for what your trying to accomplish, the cheapest i7 is around $220 give or take @ 2.67 ghz where as you can get an i5 dualcore @ 3.2 ghz for +-$180. Its gonna run cooler and take up less wattage out of your low watt PSU. One of hte main reasons why ppl get the i7 920 or 930 is to overclock which is overkill for what you want.

in terms of being futureproof I wouldnt worry about the cpu, its prob the most adaptive out of your whole setup. The futureproof things you gotta worry about are your mobo, ram, and gpu setup.

you want a mobo thats gonna work w/ usb 3.0 and SATA III and DDR3
memory you want DDR3 1300 mhz or above, DDR4 wont be around till 2014
SSDs and new hdds are gonna make your computer run ALOT faster as well

id like to see you get a i5 dualcore, corsair h50, and overclock it to 4.0 ghz you'll be pretty happy

[FRpilot]

mitx mobos is kind of a waste if you are going to be gaming. all the shuttle cases and full built systems are mitx based. i would stick with matx if you are going sff. if you're going with a mini, than there's no point in going matx other than cost. you might as well get a full atx board with more pcie slots. if you choose matx mini tower, you can get those cases as cheap as 25-40.

most of the sff small cube cases range from 100-200. a few i looked at were the thermaltake lan box, apevia qpack 2, and langear da box. i also considered the antec, silverstone, and lian li cases, but i didn't like the style of the antec, silverstone looked cheap at frys, and the lian li drive bays are on the side.

under newegg, filter your searches to computer hardware->computer cases->microatx desktop

other places to buy computer parts are tiger direct, microcenter, amazon, and of course frys. i bought pieces from everyone one of those retailers for my build.

i agree with s13shaka about the i5 750 for 180. it will run just as fast as a i7 930 stock for stock as far as performance goes. but i don't really think you can future proof the cpu or anything for that matter. in fact, the next intel cpu coming out in late 2011 will be a new socket, so you'll have to get a new mobo if you get the new chip and who knows, they might have pcie 3.0 by then. but a good setup you build now will last you for a good generation or two of cpu changes for general computer use. people are still running intel dual core and c2d fine.

a great sff matx mobo right now is the asus rampage 3 gene since it has usb 3.0 and sata 6.0 support. it is pretty much the asus rampage 3 extreme less the extra pci slots. i am considering getting that for my i7 930 or evga x58 classified 3 whenever that comes out, depending if i'm going to get corsair 800d case or langear da box.

computer chip speed have kind of hit a wall for the last few generations. we have been stuck at the 2-3ghz speed for a while now. manufacturers are spending their resources into making other things faster like memory bus, pci slots, ram, hdd speeds. corsair has a good video on their website why extra memory and an ssd are great upgrades to speed up your computer.

i was going to say you dont need an h50, but if you're overclocking to 4ghz, then you probably should.

[FRpilot]

oh btw, it's going to be hard to stick in the 500-600 budget for what you are trying to go for if you are building from scratch.

i7 cpu = 220+
4gb memory = 100+
cheap 40-60gb ssd = 120-150+
decent gpu = 150+

you also need
mobo = 150-250
psu = 100+
dvd/bdr = 20-100
case = ??

[speedgod^s13]

My question to you is, are you really that limited on space that you can't even run a mid tower? Also, what are you going to be doing that you need/want to run an i5 chip? Don't get me wrong they are good and all, but so many people are buying these high end cpu's, and not even putting them to work. You could also look into AMD quads, or regular intel quad chipsets. You could save some money, going that route.

[S13shaka]

dutch get an e-atx mobo and case lol

[comablack783]

dutch, those overheating issues were due to cheap\dell\budget hardware running a constant 24/7. anything left running 24/7 with inadequate cooling will be prone to failure. There is no such thing as future proof in PCs... as soon as something is on the market, someones developing something better. Do you really need I7 to watch movies/ save space? :mepoke:


Newegg.com - Shuttle SA76G2 AMD Phenom II / Phenom / Athlon 64 X2 / Athlon 64 AMD Socket AM2+ / AM3 AMD 760G ATI Radeon 3000 Barebone (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856101083)

I would pick this to save space, it is the nicest "small" w/e.. BUT even this is limited to 250 watt PSU. I dont think you can upgrade that PSU.. It should run AMD Phenom II X4, which is plenty powerful, BUT now your limited to what video card you can run, Most modern NEW cards require 500 watt psu minimum with additional PCIE power cable and lots of space (their huge)... Honestly, If you can run Mid tower youll save money and be able to build a system that can run what you want, I7, nice case, plenty of power , etc etc etc.

[SimpleS14]

I'd rather get a low-end i7 than a high-end i5.


Why is this? For what you're using the PC for, I'm really curious to why you insist on a i7.

IMO, SFF PCs run hotter due to small space for ventilation and inadequate cooling mechanisms for that size.

You might want to consider mini or booksize PC. There are also units pre-built such as the eee box PC:

Amazon.com: ASUS Eee Box EB1501-B0167 Nettop PC - Black: Electronics (http://www.amazon.com/ASUS-Eee-Box-EB1501-B0167-Nettop/dp/B002VKBKD8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1282865933&sr=8-1)

[S13shaka]

^he could do alot more w/ the money he would spend on that Asus eee box

my assumption is that he wnats an i7 bc of the bling factor associated w/ em which is understandable if you have not done research on processors yet.

i really woudlnt worry about heat w/ the small form pcs; a good fan, good cpu rad n ur str8. Unlesss u wanna be ballsy n get this: hahaha

http://images17.newegg.com/is/image/newegg/11-129-056-S01?$S640W$

[FRpilot]

the antec skeleton.

[Dutchmalmiss]

Yeah I'd rather not get anything atom-powered yet since I still like to multitask (i have an eee pc1000h and it sucks at it). I surely don't know what I'm talking about, hence the i7 > i5 statement haha.

I don't do any gaming. The most abuse my pc would see is probably watching a movie in fullscreen HD while downloading a torrent or two in the background and/or typing up a document. From what you guys say, I'm good with an intel or asus mobo (with usb 3.0 + sata 6?), an i5 @ ~3.2ghz, 4gbs of DDR3 RAM? I have no idea what GPU to get for my casual needs.

Also, does brand matter for RAM and optical drives nowadays?

[Dutchmalmiss]

friend linked me to this

YouTube - buk355's Channel (http://www.youtube.com/user/buk355#p/u/3/z2ZwwmsTbiQ)

is that necessary? haha

[FRpilot]

that is not necessary, but it will save you from buying a case.

[S13shaka]

for mobos id go asus/gigabyte/evga/msi/zotac

ram - stick w/ g.skill or corsair

optical drives - ur preference (not as finicky as other comp parts) I picked up a blu ray r/w for $120? other than that dvd drives are like water, CHEAP

[5pecialist]

it will save you from buying a case.
I got tired of my old heavy case so I put my components in a cardboard box. It even says Jack Daniels on the side :w00t:

[FRpilot]

for mobos id go asus/gigabyte/evga/msi/zotac

ram - stick w/ g.skill or corsair

optical drives - ur preference (not as finicky as other comp parts) I picked up a blu ray r/w for $120? other than that dvd drives are like water, CHEAP

yep dvd rw drives are like $20. i got a samsung bdr player only (of course with dvd rw, cd rw, etc) for $70. i will eventually get a bdr rw.

memory i was going to say corsair or kingston, but a lot of ppl use gskill ripjaws. i use/like corsair myself, but people say kingston are the best as far as compatible and reliability go, so maybe ill try the kingston hyper x one day.

[1on1]

Here is a computer for a $1000 budget

Case: Newegg.com - RAIDMAX SMILODON Extreme Black ATX-612WEB 1.0mm SECC Steel ATX Mid Tower Foldout MB Computer Case (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811156078)
Power Supply: Newegg.com - CORSAIR CMPSU-750TX 750W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Compatible with Core i7 Power Supply (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139006)
Motherboard: Newegg.com - GIGABYTE GA-P55A-UD3 LGA 1156 Intel P55 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128412)
CPU: Newegg.com - Intel Core i5-760 Lynnfield 2.8GHz 8MB L3 Cache LGA 1156 95W Quad-Core Desktop Processor BX80605I5760 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115067)
Memory: Newegg.com - CORSAIR XMS3 DHX 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10666) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model TW3X4G1333C9DHX (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145198)
Video Card: Newegg.com - XFX HD-487A-ZWFC Radeon HD 4870 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150436)
Harddrive: Newegg.com - Western Digital Caviar Black WD1002FAEX 1TB 7200 RPM 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136533)
Monitor:: Newegg.com - ASUS VK222H Black 22" 2 ms (GTG) HDMI Widescreen LCD Monitor w/Webcam 300 cd/m2 ASCR 5000:1(1000:1) Built-in Speakers (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236043)

Total: $979.92 with $50 MIR

if you want a SSD, delete the hardrive and add this Newegg.com - OCZ Vertex 2 OCZSSD2-2VTXE60G 2.5" 60GB SATA II MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227550)

the total with that is $1024.93 with $70 MIR

[S13shaka]

^there are things I would change in your setup:

$180 i5-650
$160 vw225t
$75 antec vsk-2000 + antec 380w
$145 crucial sata III 64 gig ssd
$25 logitech 2.1 speakers
$150 hd/ax 5770

+- $100 extra to spend which he can then afford the HDD to compliment the SSD, the total is about as same as your build estimate

[1on1]

ahhhh, 32nm processor. 5770 is ideal but he just wants to run a video card good enough to watch videos. he could even get an older video card to suit him.

case wise, it's good but i would add fans to it to have better cooling. since the smilodon has it, i would keep it that.

monitor still not bad, but i rather have an hdmi port, so i can hook up a 360, ps3, blue-ray, HD cable box, and whatever else. cool thing about the monitor too is that it comes with a webcam (so he can video chat with family or make amateur porn, haha).

[S13shaka]

they make hdmi to vga cables.

the antec case has plenty of cooling, 2 intake fans in front and 1 exhaust in the back

[ronmcdon]

friend linked me to this

YouTube - buk355's Channel (http://www.youtube.com/user/buk355#p/u/3/z2ZwwmsTbiQ)

is that necessary? haha

that's really nice.
very creative & practical means of integration.
the etching and two-tone lighting I could do without.

I'd love to have something similar for a home media area.

[1on1]

they make hdmi to vga cables.

the antec case has plenty of cooling, 2 intake fans in front and 1 exhaust in the back

of course they make adpaters but you lose quality from going digital to analog signal.

case has all that but it only mentions on newegg that it only comes with just a rear fan. you still need to purchase the front and side fans for an additional price. not only that, they right-side of the smilodon case comes out so you can fit your motherboard easily (makes it an easier installation). and it comes with all the necessary fans.

[Dutchmalmiss]

Yeah I only want a GPU that can run videos as smooth as can be. I catch up on my tv shows online via streaming HD, and soon i'll be a netflix subscriber, so smooth video is all I ask for. I mean at this point, the hardcore GPU stuff is for heavy video editting/gaming nowadays right?

I've retracted my "i7 only" preference and am convinced that even an i5 is overkill since they can be overclocked.

I'm gonna make a trip to fry's this weekend and see what cases they have. How about those horizontal towers? are those still considered ghey? haha.

[S13shaka]

of course they make adpaters but you lose quality from going digital to analog signal.

case has all that but it only mentions on newegg that it only comes with just a rear fan. you still need to purchase the front and side fans for an additional price. not only that, they right-side of the smilodon case comes out so you can fit your motherboard easily (makes it an easier installation). and it comes with all the necessary fans.


whoops i meant dvi, which doesnt degrade at all.

and you gotta chill out trying to rep that smilodon case, shit is fugly

[Dutchmalmiss]

Yeah not down with the green haha. I already like some cases from tigerdirect in the 30-40 range.

[1on1]

hahaha, the i just don't like the blue smilodon. I do admit, the case is getting wack to my taste. I am soon getting the Corsair Obsidian 800 d:D.

[FRpilot]

SHIET, i'm planning to get a corsair 800d one day too. my dream case even though it's huge and bulky and weighs a ton.

do you have any for sale?

[naibaf]

friend linked me to this

YouTube - buk355's Channel (http://www.youtube.com/user/buk355#p/u/3/z2ZwwmsTbiQ)

is that necessary? haha

Desk mounting is the way to go to save space. Fuck cases.:madfawk:

[1on1]

SHIET, i'm planning to get a corsair 800d one day too. my dream case even though it's huge and bulky and weighs a ton.

do you have any for sale?

nope but i am buying it from my friend for $100 d:D

that is a good idea but i saw this the other day.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811204039

[FRpilot]

i figured i'd asked since i thought you sell computer stuff for cheap like those corsair ssds. $100 for a used 800d?

[1on1]

used but not abused.

he used the case for his crazy set-up and he got top 10 in the world for overclocking. He told me "why did you buy the ASUS motherboard! i got a gigabyte for you and i'll throw in the 800d case." i was like ok, thanks for fucking tell me after you told me to get the asus p6x58d premium...

[FRpilot]

haha he tells you to get a mobo and finds out it's not as good afterwards

[pignose4life]

thought i would jump in on this convo since im also building a new comp with a micro atx board, check out my soon to be set up.
-Intel Core i7-950 Bloomfield 3.06GHz LGA 1366 130W Quad-Core Processor
-ASUS Rampage III Gene LGA 1366 Intel X58 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0
-Palit GeForce GTX 465 (Fermi) 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16
-G.SKILL 6GB (3 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600mhz
-CORSAIR CH50
-COOLMAX CU-600B 600W
-LITE-ON 24X DVD Writer
-Western Digital Caviar Black WD1002FAEX 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 6.0Gb/s

i was planning on getting an SSD for my os but the prices are going to be dropping soon so ill wait for that

[FRpilot]

not bad. i just picked up an asus rampage 3 gene for my i7 930. i have a brand new evga gtx265, but i'm thinking about selling it.

need to sell my p55 evga micro mobo along with my i7 860 processor, sapphire 5770 vapor x, and corsair hx650 psu so i can put the asus rampage 3 gene in and upgrade my gpu and psu. (hint: anyone looking to build a sff, pm me)

then get an evga x58 classified 3 whenever that comes out for my real enthusiast build in 800d case so i can use the sff for work/internet/light gaming.

[1on1]

pignose, not bad of a set-up.

damn! you missed out on the micro center sale for the 950. they are selling it for $230 + tax

Micro Center - Shopping Cart (http://www.microcenter.com/shopping_bag/shopping_bag.phtml?addsku=935320)

it's not available in the oc area. if you have a friend in the santa clara area, ask if they can get it for you!

FRpilot, sell your gtx 265 and go with a 465. i forgot which one i was suppose to get but you can get the gtx 465 and make it run like a gtx 470.

[FRpilot]

he did get the i7 950, probably even recently. there are rumors the i7 930 has ceased production and the i7 950 will replace it. i want to get rid of my bnib 930, but oh wells i'll probably just use it.

1on1, you misunderstood me. i only have a 5770 and an evga gtx 465 which is not unlockable. i think the pny black pcb (or was it blue) and another brand was unlockable but that's not the case anymore because that was only with older stock.

anyways, it gets hot in my sff as it is even with the single 5770. i'm thinking about getting dual gtx460s. gtx465 is a little bit more powerful than a gtx460, but going to be way hot in my sff case. if it was going to a regular tower case i would get 2 gtx465 since the price is right around now.

[1on1]

oh, cuz you mentioned 265 (in my head im like what the eff?)

i just leave my case open on my antec 300 just because i don't have fans in the front.

about the corsair 800d, my friend's case did not come in so i am held off until he gets it T___T.

my gtx 470 heatsink gets really hot (haven't gotten the precision tool yet). overall i love this gfx card. I am hoping to get another one in the near future though.

[FRpilot]

opps typo on the gtx 265..

i was thinking tri gtx 470 or dual gtx 480... or tri gtx 480 for my desktop rig. not that i have so much money to blow right away on gpus.

[pignose4life]

actually since there was a few sales on newegg i swapped out the gtx 465 for the 5850 couldnt pass up the deal. ill probably end up OCing the 5850 to the 5870 specs.

[1on1]

i was thinking tri gtx 470 or dual gtx 480... or tri gtx 480 for my desktop rig. not that i have so much money to blow right away on gpus.

i wouldn't do a 3-way SLI because i heard the third video card is pretty much useless. I would just SLI two video cards. Unless, there is a big improvement on two-way to three-way.

pignose, not bad. If there is a deal, just take it. The card I really wanted was the 5870 but it was out of my price range. I just compared the gtx 465 and gtx 470, and I just went for the gtx 470 because It out performed the 465.

I found this article earlier this week that made me feel, i made the right decision.

StarCraft II Revisited: How Much Gaming PC Do You Need? : Our Second Round With StarCraft II (http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/starcraft-ii-radeon-geforce,2728.html)

[FRpilot]

yea i heard the scaling on tri sli sucks and even more so on quad sli. that's why i decided not to get evga 4way sli mobo even though it cost less than the 3 way.

[1on1]

yup, my friend told me about it. he said something like "first two cards will be at 16x while the 3rd one sits at 1x..." something like that, i was too busy playing sc2 when he was explaining it to me lol.

[FRpilot]

woo hoo! i just ordered a corsair 800d!

selling a lot of my sff stuff too.. good bye small form factor, hello 800d full tower case goodness. i'll come back to sff eventually as i am keeping my apevia qpack2 modified for h50.

no more taking everything out to wire and dealing with ridiculously cramped spaces when fixing shit like wiring. working on a sff setup is like working on z32 or mr2 engine bay.

[1on1]

^hahahaaaha

case is so awesome!