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View Full Version : Time to Upgrade Tein HE = Weaksauce


240_keyy
07-31-2003, 03:13 PM
lol, j/k, I LOVE my HE's but my wife wants to put a set of HE's on her S13. I think it is kinda silly to have two sets of exactly the same thing (especially since Bbandit and Fastpace are crusing around here with HE's also) so I want to get something different/better.

First off, I don't really want to spend more than $2000 on another coilover setup so what do you guys recommend? Just to give you guys an idea of the current setup that I am running, I have Tein HE's that are always set to full stiff when racing and they are still not up to par in the damping department(Aaron you were right, the damping does need more oomph :D) I have the full set of Battle Version Links (TC, RUCA, RFL, RTL) and I have my car aligned to my own specs. I have whiteline front and rear bars set on full stiff and Z32 brakes to make everything stop well. Currently I have a JDM 5-bolt LSD, but that will soon be replaced with a NISMO unit.

I want something that is a good bit stiffer (this car is just a track whore) with substantially better valving. The car will see MANY autocrosses, drift events and most likely track driving at Texas World Speedway.

I was thinking something along the lines with the low end being the FLT-A2's because they are cheap and work well from what I hear and the upper end being the Zeal B6's because they are only a little more expensive and should work better.

Any suggestions, comments, complaints, etc? Talk amongst yourselves :D

Dousan_PG
07-31-2003, 03:18 PM
kei office XR
~$1700 USD to 1900 max
9/7 kg
www.kei-office.co.jp

240_keyy
07-31-2003, 06:10 PM
ya but how long dies it take to get them and where can I get them from?

Halz
07-31-2003, 08:39 PM
..and maybe more importantly, how practical/possible is it to get them serviced/rebuilt/maintained?

TheTicTac
07-31-2003, 09:39 PM
I'd stick with JIC's they are available and you can beef up the springs for nothing... or jump in on that group buy from Phase2 on A'pexi N1's

Bbandit
07-31-2003, 11:27 PM
keith

i suggest go with oem nissan struts/shocks + arospeed coilover combo!
i heard they work wonders :goyou:

but yea.. zeal is great and all.. but if you get JIC.. you will have an extra 400 bux in your hand... and you can give that 400 bux to me

old_s13
08-01-2003, 02:05 AM
Originally posted by Bbandit
if you get JIC.. you will have an extra 400 bux in your hand... and you can give that 400 bux to me

How about I take that four hundred bux, and beat you with them in my hand.. four hundred times? Hows THAT sound?

muahah

Dousan_PG
08-01-2003, 08:02 AM
you guys are p u s s i e s

kei office=go thru reflex racing/ruf
:)
revalving? buy 2 replacment shocks
its like cusco
unscrew, remove old, put new in

order one front and one rear replacement when u order the coilover
or order it shortly after.

DONE!! no need to send it anywhere and you have the shock(s) replaced within a few hours!

the head
08-01-2003, 08:13 AM
Tanabe sustec SS
I like them a lot i use the car for auto x and misc driving excersions in the country available through projectsilvia

Bbandit
08-01-2003, 08:48 AM
Originally posted by old_s13
How about I take that four hundred bux, and beat you with them in my hand.. four hundred times? Hows THAT sound?

muahah

it'll cost you 500bux just to slap me one time
so you'll owe me 100 bux for that
muahahahahahah!!!!

weirdstyles.net
08-01-2003, 09:13 AM
aside from the the racing rivalry and t he pimp/money slapping going on here... can someone offer a simple crash course on coilovers...

as far as I know..

Coilovers have independant ride height and valve adjustments (up/down)

Is the assembly:

Is it a shock with the spring wrapped around (toward the top half), sitting atop a pearch which is used to adjust the ride height?

When you purchase coil over sets:

How do you know how low/high to set the pearch in accordance with how high/low your right height is?

To adjust the height after installation, does it require wheel removal to assembly removal?

Im sorry if this is out of place, if this is considered hi-jacking tell me and I will delete it..

Halz
08-01-2003, 07:21 PM
Originally posted by Weird Styles
aside from the the racing rivalry and t he pimp/money slapping going on here... can someone offer a simple crash course on coilovers...

as far as I know..

Coilovers have independant ride height and valve adjustments (up/down)

Is the assembly:

Is it a shock with the spring wrapped around (toward the top half), sitting atop a pearch which is used to adjust the ride height?

When you purchase coil over sets:

How do you know how low/high to set the pearch in accordance with how high/low your right height is?

To adjust the height after installation, does it require wheel removal to assembly removal?

Im sorry if this is out of place, if this is considered hi-jacking tell me and I will delete it..

The term 'coilover' means nothing more than the spring being placed over the shock/strut.. The stock car has coilovers. Unfortunately, it might have been some magazine, or just bad information somewhere, that has lead to practically everyone knowing 'coilovers' as something more 'serious'; something with height adjustability, and dampening adjustability.

..that petpeeve aside.. :o

To know the ride height, you can ask whomever developed the adjustable coilovers. If they don't know, that would be a good indicator to not buy from them. Hopefully, what the coilover designer had discovered, was the optimal height for the suspension geometry working towards a more ideal camber curve while lowering the car's center of gravity as an added plus, and avoiding possibly detrimental bumpsteer. Even more significantly, height adjustable coilovers would be used to corner weight the car.
Generally, production cars cannot see more than an inch or so of 'drop' before the geometry gets pushed out of shape. There is no set limit for all cars.. It changes with the car type.
The advantage of the lower CG can be outweighed if the car has a terrible geometrical dynamic, in regard to transitory maneuvers.. unless things are so stiff the static alignment doesn't change significantly (impracticably stiff)

To effectively lower a car, the suspension arm mounting points need to be changed, or smaller diameter wheels and lower profile tires need to be used.. but that is frequently either too much effort, or doesn't look good.

The way height adjustable coilovers allow for changing the ride height, is from using a lower spring collar which rides a threaded shock body. Other sets of coilovers might also use a threaded lower mounting bracket to preserve shock/strut travel; which would suggest the designer hasn't made any consideration to finding an ideal ride height. A properly designed coilover would already be the right length.. at the ideal ride height, the coilover would have its maximum travel available.

To adjust the height, theoretically, the car would be on level scales and reaching a cross weight of as close to 50/50 as possible would be attempted. Other considerations would be the ideal height for the suspension geometry, and to have at least a level rake front and rear. The wheels don't need to be taken off, but the suspension should be unloaded when making the height adjustments.

...i typed this in a few parts, went back and added some stuff here and there, so if its at all coherent.. yey

weirdstyles.net
08-02-2003, 11:42 AM
Originally posted by Halz
The term 'coilover' means nothing more than the spring being placed over the shock/strut.. The stock car has coilovers. Unfortunately, it might have been some magazine, or just bad information somewhere, that has lead to practically everyone knowing 'coilovers' as something more 'serious'; something with height adjustability, and dampening adjustability.

..that petpeeve aside.. :o

To know the ride height, you can ask whomever developed the adjustable coilovers. If they don't know, that would be a good indicator to not buy from them. Hopefully, what the coilover designer had discovered, was the optimal height for the suspension geometry working towards a more ideal camber curve while lowering the car's center of gravity as an added plus, and avoiding possibly detrimental bumpsteer. Even more significantly, height adjustable coilovers would be used to corner weight the car.
...

thank you for the informative responce, but you seriously just spoke backward german to me. I kinda grasp the concept but the details elude me

240_keyy
08-02-2003, 12:09 PM
Originally posted by dousan36
you guys are p u s s i e s

kei office=go thru reflex racing/ruf
:)
revalving? buy 2 replacment shocks
its like cusco
unscrew, remove old, put new in

order one front and one rear replacement when u order the coilover
or order it shortly after.

DONE!! no need to send it anywhere and you have the shock(s) replaced within a few hours!

That sounds like a fantastic idea, the only problem with that is that Ruf is in Houston and I would have to pay frikin Texas sales tax which would be (assuming the cost at $2000 including the replacement shocks) an extra $165...

Maybe I should just contact Ruf and see what I can get for what :)

adey
08-02-2003, 01:57 PM
My two votes go
1) for Zeal Function B6 with 8/7 spring rates (+$200 for extra set of springs or +~50 for custom spring rates if zeal are anything like JIC)
2) for APEX N1 coilovers... can't go ****ing wrong with that!!!

pruto
08-02-2003, 03:04 PM
i think phase2 is having a sale on the Apexi N1, like 1600 for the Pro, $1600!!!!!

**** if i had the money right now i'd be allll over it.

SilEighty Type X
08-03-2003, 09:52 AM
Have u guys heard of anything goof or bad about the Buddy Club Racing Spec Coilovers? They have 8kg/6kg and are 15 way adj. Jspec has them for sale for $1500. Whats peoples thought on this.?

old_s13
08-03-2003, 10:06 AM
Why buy complex coilover system if you are not prepared to understand suspension and how to properly adjust them? You can easily go for a nice set of shocks and lowering springs that will give you excellent performance and not need any adjustment.

Coildiggers are WAY over-rated. Its great to have them if you are a fanatic and going to put them to USE, but if you're like the majority of folks on here, just get a NICE set of shocks/springs. Something quality of course, no garbage.

- Mike

weirdstyles.net
08-03-2003, 10:25 AM
Originally posted by old_s13
Why buy complex coilover system if you are not prepared to understand suspension and how to properly adjust them? You can easily go for a nice set of shocks and lowering springs that will give you excellent performance and not need any adjustment.

Coildiggers are WAY over-rated. Its great to have them if you are a fanatic and going to put them to USE, but if you're like the majority of folks on here, just get a NICE set of shocks/springs. Something quality of course, no garbage.

- Mike

I have the stadards, AGX's wrapped in H&R Sports springs. I am satisfied, but I feel there could be so much more to it. Set on full hard and feel its still lacking. Of course i need the add-ons with sway bars and what not, but i think to start with a solid coil over set (apex n1) would probably benefit me more.

240_keyy
08-03-2003, 11:02 AM
Ya, I agree with you Weird, I have my HE's set on full stiff and it is still a bit too reboundey. I need something just a little stiffer with better damping ability.

Trust me, I USE this stuff, just ask Bbandit :)

weirdstyles.net
08-03-2003, 01:49 PM
Originally posted by 240_keyy
Ya, I agree with you Weird, I have my HE's set on full stiff and it is still a bit too reboundey. I need something just a little stiffer with better damping ability.

Trust me, I USE this stuff, just ask Bbandit :)


i figured the HE's would hve provided significantly better dampening fource than a set off AGX's...interesting

Hopefuly after im done my military training I can get my new dohc fastback and a set of n1s. I was also wondering, if anyone knows. How are the Zeal V6?